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Clash of the Titans is the only way to describe this encounter between the tournament's top 2 teams.
So who will win this epic match?
So who will win this epic match?
-
Contact the PP Team
Which side will win the Liverpool vs Manchester City Premier League encounter on 10th November?
- Thread starter MenInG
- Start date
angrypathan
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City don't look as dominant this year and haven't been at their best against Liverpool in most of their encounters over the last couple of years. Hoping for a Liverpool win
PetroDollars
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both teams havnt looked good in recent weeks, with city looking very edgy at the back and lp only scraping through victories, city will need this win more and should win it.
KingKhanWC
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Big game, cant wait , Anfield will be rocking!
No sane person will try to predict the result of this. These two teams are within the top 5 of the worlds greatest club sides, at any time , any player could turn on the magic. It will come down to a lot of luck, the run of the ball etc. But being at Anfield, if we start fast we can create a lot chances to score plenyt of goals. A loss wouldnt be the end of the world for Liverpool but a win would put us as strong favourites to take the title!
No sane person will try to predict the result of this. These two teams are within the top 5 of the worlds greatest club sides, at any time , any player could turn on the magic. It will come down to a lot of luck, the run of the ball etc. But being at Anfield, if we start fast we can create a lot chances to score plenyt of goals. A loss wouldnt be the end of the world for Liverpool but a win would put us as strong favourites to take the title!
The Viper
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Pep Guardiola: Man City boss accuses Liverpool's players of 'sometimes diving'
Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola says Liverpool players will dive to win games - just days before the two teams meet at Anfield.
Premier League leaders Liverpool host reigning champions City on 10 November.
Sadio Mane scored a 94th-minute winner for Reds at Aston Villa on Saturday.
Speaking after City's win 2-1 win over Southampton, Guardiola told BBC Match of the Day: "Sometimes it is diving, sometimes it is this talent to score incredible goals in the last minute."
Mane was booked by referee Jonathan Moss in the first half on Saturday for simulation after falling inside the penalty area next to Villa defender Frederic Guilbert.
Liverpool were trailing 1-0 at the time but equalised through Andrew Robertson after 87 minutes before Senegal winger Mane's dramatic 94th-minute winner.
City, who also came from 1-0 behind to beat Southampton 2-1, head to Liverpool six points behind the leaders.
City's match finished several minutes before Liverpool's game at Villa, and Guardiola added: "We arrived in the locker room and it was 1-1 and after it was 1-2.
"When we won, Liverpool still didn't win and at the end, again they won.
"What happened has happened not once, twice, it happened a lot of times - it is because it is a talent.
"So when they won many games in the last minutes, it is because they are a special character.
"The first season, when we won the treble, with 100 points, we won four or five games in the last minutes."
Last season Cardiff City boss Neil Warnock likened Liverpool's Mohamed Salah to Olympic diver Tom Daley for the way the forward earned Liverpool a penalty against his side.
However Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp, who felt Mane was unfortunate to be booked on Saturday, has always rejected claims of diving by his players.
"We don't have divers," he told Sky Sports last year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50278503
Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola says Liverpool players will dive to win games - just days before the two teams meet at Anfield.
Premier League leaders Liverpool host reigning champions City on 10 November.
Sadio Mane scored a 94th-minute winner for Reds at Aston Villa on Saturday.
Speaking after City's win 2-1 win over Southampton, Guardiola told BBC Match of the Day: "Sometimes it is diving, sometimes it is this talent to score incredible goals in the last minute."
Mane was booked by referee Jonathan Moss in the first half on Saturday for simulation after falling inside the penalty area next to Villa defender Frederic Guilbert.
Liverpool were trailing 1-0 at the time but equalised through Andrew Robertson after 87 minutes before Senegal winger Mane's dramatic 94th-minute winner.
City, who also came from 1-0 behind to beat Southampton 2-1, head to Liverpool six points behind the leaders.
City's match finished several minutes before Liverpool's game at Villa, and Guardiola added: "We arrived in the locker room and it was 1-1 and after it was 1-2.
"When we won, Liverpool still didn't win and at the end, again they won.
"What happened has happened not once, twice, it happened a lot of times - it is because it is a talent.
"So when they won many games in the last minutes, it is because they are a special character.
"The first season, when we won the treble, with 100 points, we won four or five games in the last minutes."
Last season Cardiff City boss Neil Warnock likened Liverpool's Mohamed Salah to Olympic diver Tom Daley for the way the forward earned Liverpool a penalty against his side.
However Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp, who felt Mane was unfortunate to be booked on Saturday, has always rejected claims of diving by his players.
"We don't have divers," he told Sky Sports last year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50278503
The Viper
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Sadio Mane: Liverpool forward 'not a diver', says Jurgen Klopp
Liverpool's Sadio Mane "is not a diver" according to Reds' boss Jurgen Klopp, despite the forward being booked for the offence at the weekend.
Mane, 27, was cautioned in the 37th minute of Liverpool's 2-1 win over Aston Villa on Saturday.
Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola then appeared to suggest the Senegal international was "sometimes diving".
"I am not 100% sure if he spoke about Sadio or us in general," said Klopp in a news conference on Monday.
"I didn't hear Sadio's name or know how he [Guardiola] could have known so quick about any incident in the game.
"I can say Sadio is not a diver. There was a situation in the Aston Villa game where he got contact and went down, maybe it was not a penalty but there was contact. It's not as if he jumped over a leg and went down."
Liverpool are top of the Premier League, six points ahead of second-placed City with the two teams meeting at Anfield on Sunday.
However, the German said he "was not in the mood to talk about Man City" as the Reds play Belgian side Genk in the Champions League first.
Asked if he was banning the words 'Manchester City' until after Tuesday's match, Klopp replied: "You can say the words Man City, you just cannot think about it.
"The story the boys wrote in the last three years was only possible because we were always focused on the next game.
"No-one thinks, and I don't have to tell them, 'City is on Sunday, tomorrow is Genk'.
"I don't doubt my players at all, I would feel a bit embarrassed if I had to tell them, 'Don't think about Man City already'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/50294040?__twitter_impression=true
Liverpool's Sadio Mane "is not a diver" according to Reds' boss Jurgen Klopp, despite the forward being booked for the offence at the weekend.
Mane, 27, was cautioned in the 37th minute of Liverpool's 2-1 win over Aston Villa on Saturday.
Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola then appeared to suggest the Senegal international was "sometimes diving".
"I am not 100% sure if he spoke about Sadio or us in general," said Klopp in a news conference on Monday.
"I didn't hear Sadio's name or know how he [Guardiola] could have known so quick about any incident in the game.
"I can say Sadio is not a diver. There was a situation in the Aston Villa game where he got contact and went down, maybe it was not a penalty but there was contact. It's not as if he jumped over a leg and went down."
Liverpool are top of the Premier League, six points ahead of second-placed City with the two teams meeting at Anfield on Sunday.
However, the German said he "was not in the mood to talk about Man City" as the Reds play Belgian side Genk in the Champions League first.
Asked if he was banning the words 'Manchester City' until after Tuesday's match, Klopp replied: "You can say the words Man City, you just cannot think about it.
"The story the boys wrote in the last three years was only possible because we were always focused on the next game.
"No-one thinks, and I don't have to tell them, 'City is on Sunday, tomorrow is Genk'.
"I don't doubt my players at all, I would feel a bit embarrassed if I had to tell them, 'Don't think about Man City already'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/50294040?__twitter_impression=true
Kroll
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Interesting tussle, City have some problems at the back and only Mane is firing out of the famed front triumvirate.
But with match being at Anfield, I'd say slight advantage to Liverpool.
But with match being at Anfield, I'd say slight advantage to Liverpool.
Mamoon
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Both Salah and Mane are divers. Pep didn’t have to point out.
Hoping for a City win because I want to see Liverpool goof up a healthy lead at the top for the second season running.
Hoping for a City win because I want to see Liverpool goof up a healthy lead at the top for the second season running.
Hasan123
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Liverpool will win this one. This looks to be their season.
shebimalik
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Most Cards for Diving in the last 2 seasons...
Wilfried Zaha -4
Dele Alli - 4
Raheem Sterling - 3
Leroy Sane - 3
Dan James - 2 (in 3 games)
Shkodran Mustafi - 2
Liverpool - 3 (Sadio Mane, Mo Salah, Daniel Sturridge)
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Liverpool and Manchester City are set to renew their rivalry this weekend as the champions of Europe and the champions of England meet at Anfield.
League leaders Liverpool are six points ahead of their north-west rivals but both sides have elevated themselves to a state of "near perfection" in recent years.
Are we set for the highest-quality Premier League game ever? We take a closer look before the top-of-the-table encounter.
Perfection
For an hour or so last Saturday it looked like both Liverpool and Manchester City were going to lose. The last time that happened on the same Premier League weekend, let alone the same day, was December 2016.
The two clubs have since elevated themselves to a new plateau, one where dropping points is no longer an option. In the world of the sub-two-hour marathon, the Premier League is now a nine-month sprint.
Part of the anticipation about this weekend's fixture is that we are firmly in the midst of a genuine duopoly at the top of the table, something that harks back to some of the greatest periods in the history of the competition.
From Manchester United's battles with Newcastle and Arsenal in the 1990s to Jose Mourinho's ultimately successful attempt to dethrone Arsenal's Invincibles in the 2000s, two club mini-rivalries have lit up the league. Many of the early duopolies live on in our hearts because of the mind games they inspired.
The country is about to embark on its second general election since Liverpool last lost a league game at Anfield
Kevin Keegan telling Alex Ferguson that "he's got to go to Middlesbrough and get something" came about precisely because in the 1990s it wasn't that unlikely that a title challenger could take their eye off the ball and drop points in a supposedly easy fixture.
But what City and Liverpool have done in the past couple of years is ramp up their consistency to such a level that there's little point goading the rival manager.
Pep Guardiola's comments about Sadio Mane and diving last weekend were possibly the closest the Klopp/Guardiola rivalry has come to this, and it's probably not a coincidence that it happened on a day when Liverpool looked like they might finally be about to lose.
For fans of the two clubs these are glorious times but for everyone else, a little more inconsistency, a little more jeopardy and, therefore, a little more needle between the managers, would probably not go amiss.
Power duopoly Period Points dropped per game
Man Utd/Newcastle 1995-97 0.47
Man Utd/Arsenal 1997-99 0.55
Arsenal/Chelsea 2003-05 0.46
Man Utd/Chelsea 2005-07 0.37
Man Utd/Chelsea 2009-11 0.37
Man City/Man Utd 2011-13 0.32
Liverpool/Man City 2018- 0.22
Perfection Part II
If you're going to be as consistent as City and Liverpool have been then the numbers should back you up. And they do.
The three highest pass-completion rates recorded in Premier League history are 89% by Manchester City in 2017-18, 89% by Manchester City in 2018-19 and 89% by Manchester City in 2019-20, while the four highest average possession rates in Premier League history are the four seasons City have spent under Pep Guardiola.
The country, meanwhile, is about to embark on its second general election since Liverpool last lost a league game at Anfield. In reverse order, the visiting managers to win there in the Klopp era are Sam Allardyce, Paul Clement, Louis van Gaal and Alan Pardew.
That doesn't just seem like a long time ago, it feels like another dimension. The German's mentality men continue to run through concrete walls and heave out wins in the face of certain defeat.
Since the start of last season, Liverpool have claimed 26 points from losing positions, more than 10% of the division's total in that period. The greatest trick the Reds ever pulled was convincing people that Manchester United are the masters of the late-goal comeback when the truth was staring us in the face all along.
Perfection Part III
Liverpool's Possession Value
So we've seen the outcome of Liverpool and Manchester City's near-perfection but who are the players making the difference?
Fortunately there's a new Opta metric out for 2019-20 called Possession Value which credits individual players based on their positive and negative contributions, wherever they are on the pitch and whatever their roles.
Starting with Liverpool, it's satisfying to see the numbers conform almost perfectly to how everyone has assessed Klopp's system.
The front three of Mane, Mohamed Salah and Roberto Firmino (in that order) have the highest net possession value contribution, while the two full-backs, Andy Robertson and Trent Alexander-Arnold, have the highest number of positive actions, although the right-back also has the highest number of negative actions too.
This isn't a bad thing, though, simply a reflection of his role in the side.
The England man has already made 100 unsuccessful crosses and corners in the Premier League this season, 12 more than Norwich have as a team, yet after Divock Origi's second goal against Barcelona in last season's Champions League semi-final, no-one can question Alexander-Arnold's delivery credentials.
For City, one man stands out and it's Riyad Mahrez. The Algerian has not featured in the Premier League since the defeat by Wolves but his net impact dwarfs his team-mates' and everyone at Liverpool too.
That said, Mahrez was ultimately the reason City did not win in this exact fixture last season, wasting a late penalty after Leroy Sane had been brought down by Virgil van Dijk.
If given an opportunity to make amends on Sunday, these numbers suggest he could well do so. The other selection concern for Guardiola is David Silva, who had to be substituted at half-time on Saturday.
The possession value framework, though, has him fairly low down. Bernardo Silva would, it seems, be a far bigger loss. Lastly, compare the City full-backs to Liverpool's.
Nominally they play in the same position but in reality it's a completely different role, despite Kyle Walker's heroics against Southampton. It doesn't really need restating but Sunday's game really is a clash of two distinct approaches to the game, devised in turn by arguably the two best football managers on the planet.
Manchester City's Possession Value
Coastal news
For those looking for an update on the percentage of his Premier League goals Mane has scored within two miles of the English coast, he is currently on 82%, keeping him well ahead of any other regular scorer in the competition's history.
For the first time, though, I can reveal who the least effective players near the coast are. For men with 70 or more goals (like Mane), it's a French pairing of Eric Cantona (4.3%) and Thierry Henry (4.6%).
A relaxing evening on the Riviera, yes. A working afternoon near the grey shores of England, no.
Finally, a word on Jason Euell, who, of all players with 50 or more Premier League goals, has scored the lowest proportion of them near the coast (1.8%).
Euell even ended his top-flight career with Middlesbrough and Blackpool, perhaps in the hope he could achieve shoreline glory, but instead failed to make waves and score for either club.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50322882
League leaders Liverpool are six points ahead of their north-west rivals but both sides have elevated themselves to a state of "near perfection" in recent years.
Are we set for the highest-quality Premier League game ever? We take a closer look before the top-of-the-table encounter.
Perfection
For an hour or so last Saturday it looked like both Liverpool and Manchester City were going to lose. The last time that happened on the same Premier League weekend, let alone the same day, was December 2016.
The two clubs have since elevated themselves to a new plateau, one where dropping points is no longer an option. In the world of the sub-two-hour marathon, the Premier League is now a nine-month sprint.
Part of the anticipation about this weekend's fixture is that we are firmly in the midst of a genuine duopoly at the top of the table, something that harks back to some of the greatest periods in the history of the competition.
From Manchester United's battles with Newcastle and Arsenal in the 1990s to Jose Mourinho's ultimately successful attempt to dethrone Arsenal's Invincibles in the 2000s, two club mini-rivalries have lit up the league. Many of the early duopolies live on in our hearts because of the mind games they inspired.
The country is about to embark on its second general election since Liverpool last lost a league game at Anfield
Kevin Keegan telling Alex Ferguson that "he's got to go to Middlesbrough and get something" came about precisely because in the 1990s it wasn't that unlikely that a title challenger could take their eye off the ball and drop points in a supposedly easy fixture.
But what City and Liverpool have done in the past couple of years is ramp up their consistency to such a level that there's little point goading the rival manager.
Pep Guardiola's comments about Sadio Mane and diving last weekend were possibly the closest the Klopp/Guardiola rivalry has come to this, and it's probably not a coincidence that it happened on a day when Liverpool looked like they might finally be about to lose.
For fans of the two clubs these are glorious times but for everyone else, a little more inconsistency, a little more jeopardy and, therefore, a little more needle between the managers, would probably not go amiss.
Power duopoly Period Points dropped per game
Man Utd/Newcastle 1995-97 0.47
Man Utd/Arsenal 1997-99 0.55
Arsenal/Chelsea 2003-05 0.46
Man Utd/Chelsea 2005-07 0.37
Man Utd/Chelsea 2009-11 0.37
Man City/Man Utd 2011-13 0.32
Liverpool/Man City 2018- 0.22
Perfection Part II
If you're going to be as consistent as City and Liverpool have been then the numbers should back you up. And they do.
The three highest pass-completion rates recorded in Premier League history are 89% by Manchester City in 2017-18, 89% by Manchester City in 2018-19 and 89% by Manchester City in 2019-20, while the four highest average possession rates in Premier League history are the four seasons City have spent under Pep Guardiola.
The country, meanwhile, is about to embark on its second general election since Liverpool last lost a league game at Anfield. In reverse order, the visiting managers to win there in the Klopp era are Sam Allardyce, Paul Clement, Louis van Gaal and Alan Pardew.
That doesn't just seem like a long time ago, it feels like another dimension. The German's mentality men continue to run through concrete walls and heave out wins in the face of certain defeat.
Since the start of last season, Liverpool have claimed 26 points from losing positions, more than 10% of the division's total in that period. The greatest trick the Reds ever pulled was convincing people that Manchester United are the masters of the late-goal comeback when the truth was staring us in the face all along.
Perfection Part III
Liverpool's Possession Value
So we've seen the outcome of Liverpool and Manchester City's near-perfection but who are the players making the difference?
Fortunately there's a new Opta metric out for 2019-20 called Possession Value which credits individual players based on their positive and negative contributions, wherever they are on the pitch and whatever their roles.
Starting with Liverpool, it's satisfying to see the numbers conform almost perfectly to how everyone has assessed Klopp's system.
The front three of Mane, Mohamed Salah and Roberto Firmino (in that order) have the highest net possession value contribution, while the two full-backs, Andy Robertson and Trent Alexander-Arnold, have the highest number of positive actions, although the right-back also has the highest number of negative actions too.
This isn't a bad thing, though, simply a reflection of his role in the side.
The England man has already made 100 unsuccessful crosses and corners in the Premier League this season, 12 more than Norwich have as a team, yet after Divock Origi's second goal against Barcelona in last season's Champions League semi-final, no-one can question Alexander-Arnold's delivery credentials.
For City, one man stands out and it's Riyad Mahrez. The Algerian has not featured in the Premier League since the defeat by Wolves but his net impact dwarfs his team-mates' and everyone at Liverpool too.
That said, Mahrez was ultimately the reason City did not win in this exact fixture last season, wasting a late penalty after Leroy Sane had been brought down by Virgil van Dijk.
If given an opportunity to make amends on Sunday, these numbers suggest he could well do so. The other selection concern for Guardiola is David Silva, who had to be substituted at half-time on Saturday.
The possession value framework, though, has him fairly low down. Bernardo Silva would, it seems, be a far bigger loss. Lastly, compare the City full-backs to Liverpool's.
Nominally they play in the same position but in reality it's a completely different role, despite Kyle Walker's heroics against Southampton. It doesn't really need restating but Sunday's game really is a clash of two distinct approaches to the game, devised in turn by arguably the two best football managers on the planet.
Manchester City's Possession Value
Coastal news
For those looking for an update on the percentage of his Premier League goals Mane has scored within two miles of the English coast, he is currently on 82%, keeping him well ahead of any other regular scorer in the competition's history.
For the first time, though, I can reveal who the least effective players near the coast are. For men with 70 or more goals (like Mane), it's a French pairing of Eric Cantona (4.3%) and Thierry Henry (4.6%).
A relaxing evening on the Riviera, yes. A working afternoon near the grey shores of England, no.
Finally, a word on Jason Euell, who, of all players with 50 or more Premier League goals, has scored the lowest proportion of them near the coast (1.8%).
Euell even ended his top-flight career with Middlesbrough and Blackpool, perhaps in the hope he could achieve shoreline glory, but instead failed to make waves and score for either club.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50322882
imrankhannsu
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It might turn out to be a dirty game
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Manchester City goalkeeper Ederson will not face Liverpool, having failed to recover from the muscular problem that led to his substitution against Atalanta in midweek.
He will be replaced by Claudio Bravo, who was sent off in that game, while David Silva is not expected to be fit.
Liverpool pair Jordan Henderson and Virgil van Dijk, who missed training earlier in the week, are available.
Joel Matip, Nathaniel Clyne and Xherdan Shaqiri remain out.
City manager Pep Guardiola has defended Bravo amid criticism of his display in midweek, saying: "He is an exceptional goalkeeper. He is an international goalkeeper. I have no doubts.
"Why shouldn't I be confident about my players? I see him every day in training. We won't lose because of Claudio.
"The red card the other day was because we lost the ball. Respect the guy. He is a top keeper."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50278816
He will be replaced by Claudio Bravo, who was sent off in that game, while David Silva is not expected to be fit.
Liverpool pair Jordan Henderson and Virgil van Dijk, who missed training earlier in the week, are available.
Joel Matip, Nathaniel Clyne and Xherdan Shaqiri remain out.
City manager Pep Guardiola has defended Bravo amid criticism of his display in midweek, saying: "He is an exceptional goalkeeper. He is an international goalkeeper. I have no doubts.
"Why shouldn't I be confident about my players? I see him every day in training. We won't lose because of Claudio.
"The red card the other day was because we lost the ball. Respect the guy. He is a top keeper."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50278816
Don't let facts get in the way of another cynical lying claim by the resident prima donna Mamoon.
While on the topic, Daniel James is a real piece of work. Two dives and three fake concussions/head injuries in less than half a season. Really has taken play-acting to a new level
Mamoon
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Proves nothing. Players regularly get away with dives and referees book players unfairly as well at times.
The denial of Liverpool fans and those who support Salah and Mane for different reasons is laughable. They are top class but they are also divers. It is futile to deny it.
Hasan123
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Lol that list just exposes it anyway.
Salah has 1 less yellow card for diving than Zaha , that list doesn’t count the ones that Salah got away with as well.
KingKhanWC
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I've told you before, you've never played football so dont know what a 'dive' is.
Diving is when there is NO contact/foul and the players goes down. Any contact which stop the player in any way is illegal, thus a foul.
Salah has many times stayed on his feet when he could have gone down after being fouled.
The biggest cheat in EPL is MCity’s Fernandinho, who gets away regularly with tactical fouls and Referees keep giving BoD - if he was a mid table club, half of the league he would have sit out. This one me Pep tried before the game to make a point before the big game and his defenders will keep doing that staff to the best three ball players of EPL.
KingKhanWC
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City's tactical fouls are getting too much now. Anytime they lose the ball, they will clip the ankles, tug the shirt or come in the way. The best way for Liverpool to counter this is to move the ball quickly as soon as we win it back, esp out wide. Fabinho is the man who will be very important for us on Sunday, he can keep control once winning the ball back.
Trent and Salah need to attack hard down the right because City are weak on this side. I have a feeling Salah will score a brace on Sunday due to this.
Mamoon
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Please educate someone who has started watching football yesterday. You are not going to get away with your bias and manipulation of facts with me.
Football is a contact sport and not every contact is illegal.
I will quote the official rule:
Law 12, Fouls and Misconduct
”A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force”
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct
Please note the word “excessive force”. This clearly implies that using force is allowed as long as it is not excessive. Now what is excessive and what isn’t is down to the judgment of the referee.
Unless a player is a Jedi, he cannot use force against the opponent without any contact, so contact is allowed as long as it is not excessive.
Hence, you statement that “Any contact which stop the player in any way is illegal” is complete wrong according to the official rule book that every player and referee has to follow.
You take a lot of pride in your experience as a football player, but it appears that you didn’t even educate yourself on the rules while playing. No wonder you didn’t make it far.
Furthermore, there are two types of diving. The first type is when the player goes down without any contact, and the second type is when a player goes down easily/makes the most of the non-excessive contact.
Both Salah and Mane excel at both types go diving. Besides, it is not that big a deal anyway. They are not the only two players who dive and City are no angels on this front either.
However, for some reason, Liverpool and their players are too sensitive when others call them out for their theatrics. It seems as if they are very clean to project a clean image and come across as a team with no divers.
Salah and Mane are not the only two world class players who dive. It really is not a big deal to begin with as long as Liverpool doesn’t act so sensitive.
Mamoon
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That I agree with. Brilliant player though, but Fabinho is equally good in my view.
KingKhanWC
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lol. Ive been playing football since I could walk at various levels.
Excessive force is when a player uses force which impedes the opponent from continuing the play.
You claim Mane is a diver as what Pep mentioned. The Penalty given by the ref and VAR was a great example. Mane was clipped on the back of his foot which was light but excessive because it stopped him from playing. Football is a contact sport but if the contact impedes the player, its a foul.
Again play the game instead of reading about it.
Mamoon
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It is good that you have been playing but it will be good if you understand the rules.
Your new statement is actually correct:
“Excessive force is when a player uses force which impedes the opponent from continuing the play.”
But what you said in your previous post was incorrect:
“Any contact which stop the player in any way is illegal”
Any contact is not the same as excessive force, and when a player goes down easily at minimal (not excessive force) contact instead of trying to stay on his feet, it is also a dive.
I don’t care care about the example Pep highlighted. Just because a player is a diver it doesn’t mean that he cannot win a fair penalty. However, it is futile to deny that overall, Mane and Salah do a lot of theatrics in the penalty box and are no poster boys of fair play.
Nevertheless, it is common for most team so as I said, Liverpool and the fans do not need to be sensitive and go to great lengths to justify them.
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It's gonna be edgy, scrappy and tense. Liverpool almost have little to lose and everything to gain. All out attack too much for weakened City. 3-1 liverpool
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Virtual final? Big day in the Premier League today
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Pep Guardiola is not concerned about Manchester City's poor Anfield record as they look to move closer to Premier League leaders Liverpool on Sunday.
A home win would put Liverpool - who were pipped to the title by Guardiola's side in May - nine points ahead of City, who have managed one league win at Anfield since 1981.
"Regarding statistics, I don't believe much in that kind of thing," he said.
"Statistics are OK but I'm thinking of what we have to do to beat them."
City's only league victory at Anfield in the past 38 years came in May 2003 when they recorded a 2-1 victory.
This will be their first league meeting since January, when City won 2-1. That was Liverpool's only league defeat of last season as they fought toe-to-toe for the title with a City side who finished with 14 consecutive wins to finish top by a point.
Guardiola's counterpart Jürgen Klopp said he did not admire City but respected them.
The German said: "I don't think about the City team of the last few years, I think about the City team of the moment, and that's good enough for a proper game.
"The character of the team and the manager is pretty good, but the combination of speed and technique is always impressive in football."
It is a rivalry that has been growing in intensity over the past two seasons both on and off the pitch - most notably when City's team bus was attacked as it made its way to Anfield before a Champions League quarter-final in April 2018.
Merseyside Police is working with the clubs to ensure supporters "have a safe and enjoyable afternoon".
Asked if this was the most exciting rivalry in Europe, Guardiola said: "I don't know. Barcelona-Madrid is always incredible.
"It is two teams who made incredible seasons in the past two seasons. When we won the league by a big margin, they got to the final of the Champions League. Both teams have been incredibly consistent for the past 24 months."
Liverpool have been given shorter odds than City to take three points, but when it was suggested his side go to Anfield as outsiders, the Catalonian manager said: "It is the people in the media who say we are outsiders or not, or we are the underdog or not.
"I never went into one game feeling like an outsider or that I am not going to win the game. I never felt that. Never. I am not going to take a bus to Anfield on Sunday thinking I am going to lose the game."
Power duopoly Period Points dropped per game
Man Utd/Newcastle 1995-97 0.47
Man Utd/Arsenal 1997-99 0.55
Arsenal/Chelsea 2003-05 0.46
Man Utd/Chelsea 2005-07 0.37
Man Utd/Chelsea 2009-11 0.37
Man City/Man Utd 2011-13 0.32
Liverpool/Man City 2018- 0.22
Meanwhile, City striker Sergio Aguero said his team-mates are ready to "fight until the very end" in order to defend their title.
"This season didn't start off the way we wanted it to, and some of the results we've had weren't the ones we set out to achieve," he said, referring to two defeats and a draw.
"However, there's a quite a bit of road ahead of us. It certainly won't be easy, but who said it would ever be?
"We have to trust our game, give our utmost effort, and, just like usual, fight until the very end."
City will be without first-choice goalkeeper Ederson for the match, with Claudio Bravo set for his first league appearance in 18 months.
David Silva, Rodri, Oleksandr Zinchenko, Leroy Sane and Aymeric Laporte will also be absent as they recover from their respective injuries.
Klopp, on the other hand, will have all his key players available as his side look for a 12th win from their first 13 league games, while also remaining unbeaten.
The Reds boss said City still had enough quality to trouble them despite their depleted squad.
"We all have problems," he said. "Last year [Kevin] De Bruyne couldn't play against us, one of the best players in the world, and they still got results. That shows the quality of Man City.
"We all have to deal with setbacks and injuries, and they did pretty well. It's not about comparing the team from last year, it's about how do they deal with the situation and that's quite impressive."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50360150
A home win would put Liverpool - who were pipped to the title by Guardiola's side in May - nine points ahead of City, who have managed one league win at Anfield since 1981.
"Regarding statistics, I don't believe much in that kind of thing," he said.
"Statistics are OK but I'm thinking of what we have to do to beat them."
City's only league victory at Anfield in the past 38 years came in May 2003 when they recorded a 2-1 victory.
This will be their first league meeting since January, when City won 2-1. That was Liverpool's only league defeat of last season as they fought toe-to-toe for the title with a City side who finished with 14 consecutive wins to finish top by a point.
Guardiola's counterpart Jürgen Klopp said he did not admire City but respected them.
The German said: "I don't think about the City team of the last few years, I think about the City team of the moment, and that's good enough for a proper game.
"The character of the team and the manager is pretty good, but the combination of speed and technique is always impressive in football."
It is a rivalry that has been growing in intensity over the past two seasons both on and off the pitch - most notably when City's team bus was attacked as it made its way to Anfield before a Champions League quarter-final in April 2018.
Merseyside Police is working with the clubs to ensure supporters "have a safe and enjoyable afternoon".
Asked if this was the most exciting rivalry in Europe, Guardiola said: "I don't know. Barcelona-Madrid is always incredible.
"It is two teams who made incredible seasons in the past two seasons. When we won the league by a big margin, they got to the final of the Champions League. Both teams have been incredibly consistent for the past 24 months."
Liverpool have been given shorter odds than City to take three points, but when it was suggested his side go to Anfield as outsiders, the Catalonian manager said: "It is the people in the media who say we are outsiders or not, or we are the underdog or not.
"I never went into one game feeling like an outsider or that I am not going to win the game. I never felt that. Never. I am not going to take a bus to Anfield on Sunday thinking I am going to lose the game."
Power duopoly Period Points dropped per game
Man Utd/Newcastle 1995-97 0.47
Man Utd/Arsenal 1997-99 0.55
Arsenal/Chelsea 2003-05 0.46
Man Utd/Chelsea 2005-07 0.37
Man Utd/Chelsea 2009-11 0.37
Man City/Man Utd 2011-13 0.32
Liverpool/Man City 2018- 0.22
Meanwhile, City striker Sergio Aguero said his team-mates are ready to "fight until the very end" in order to defend their title.
"This season didn't start off the way we wanted it to, and some of the results we've had weren't the ones we set out to achieve," he said, referring to two defeats and a draw.
"However, there's a quite a bit of road ahead of us. It certainly won't be easy, but who said it would ever be?
"We have to trust our game, give our utmost effort, and, just like usual, fight until the very end."
City will be without first-choice goalkeeper Ederson for the match, with Claudio Bravo set for his first league appearance in 18 months.
David Silva, Rodri, Oleksandr Zinchenko, Leroy Sane and Aymeric Laporte will also be absent as they recover from their respective injuries.
Klopp, on the other hand, will have all his key players available as his side look for a 12th win from their first 13 league games, while also remaining unbeaten.
The Reds boss said City still had enough quality to trouble them despite their depleted squad.
"We all have problems," he said. "Last year [Kevin] De Bruyne couldn't play against us, one of the best players in the world, and they still got results. That shows the quality of Man City.
"We all have to deal with setbacks and injuries, and they did pretty well. It's not about comparing the team from last year, it's about how do they deal with the situation and that's quite impressive."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50360150
sweep_shot
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All the best to Liverpool. Rooting for them.
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GOAL - Liverpool 1-0 Man City
Kroll
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What a STRIKE!
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Liverpool 2-0 Manchester City
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Salah strikes, devastating counter-attack!
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HT: Liverpool 2-0 Man City
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Liverpool 3-0 Man City - no way back for Manchester now
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FT: Liverpool 3-1 Man City
Kroll
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A very significant result in the title chase. Will be very hard for City to peg Liverpool back, not impossible as shown last season but going to be very difficult.
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Liverpool is significantly better than Man. City.
Congrats boy - now, make sure that we don't slip in January. This time, Klopp has to reinforce squad in January window, otherwise we won't sustain the schedule pressure of 3, may be 4 tournaments (kids still might win over AVilla. Genius Pep will use his last tactics - 250mn bill to Sheikh Mansoor for two sets of players and rotate them alternatively.
Liverpool are a strong team, but in terms of purity of football, city are something else. They way city played last 20-25 was amazing.
3-0 down at anfield against a solid Liverpool side, they could easily have scored 3 goals , with a bit of luck
Mamoon
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The Trent handball was dubious, could have gone either way. However it, proved one thing again - PL referees are completely clueless when it comes to utilizing VAR. They didn’t even bother to check properly.
Congratulations to Liverpool, it was a mighty performance against an underpowered but still quality City aside.
All players from both sides should be proud except Aguero. He should be ashamed of himself today, and this isn’t the first time he has let his team down at Anfield.
Liverpool will surely hold onto the lead this time and won’t repeat last year’s mistakes. Congratulations to Liverpool fans and commiserations to Citizens.
Nevertheless, today is not the day to take potshots on Pep’s checkbook. Van Dijk and A. Becker did not come free.
Congratulations to Liverpool, it was a mighty performance against an underpowered but still quality City aside.
All players from both sides should be proud except Aguero. He should be ashamed of himself today, and this isn’t the first time he has let his team down at Anfield.
Liverpool will surely hold onto the lead this time and won’t repeat last year’s mistakes. Congratulations to Liverpool fans and commiserations to Citizens.
Nevertheless, today is not the day to take potshots on Pep’s checkbook. Van Dijk and A. Becker did not come free.
So if that's the case then play should have been stopped and a free-kick awarded to Liverpool.
The ref had a nightmare.
Kroll
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Liverpool played "rope a dope" to a T today. Sucked City in and made them pay. 
I think, Referee gave advantage to both team and didn't stop the game - something that cost Liverpool 2 points two weeks back against MU.
Pep has to stop crying - this is not Spain and he is not in charge of one of the two Mafias there. Last year LFC failed to win EPL because a stone clod handball wasn't given against Leicester, this year apart from that MU goal, two goal's were over-ruled against MU (That was handball, no issues) & Villa.
VAR is creating controversies because it's used exactly the way DRS is used in cricket and Referees are still not accustomed with; but this handball call had absolutely nothing about VAR. Referee won't have ever given that penalty and game would have continued as well after it deflected from TAA's arm.
Hasan123
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Lol your asking Klopp to sign players but mocking Pep for signing players.
Unbelievable stuff.
Hasan123
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This is Liverpool’s year. City were slightly unlucky but Liverpool took their chances. The real test for them is in December and January where they have a lot of games. But I am convinced this is Liverpool’s year.
Tough loss for your lot. Expected some moral outrage for one of your player's blatant dive though. Sterling throwing himself to the floor anticipating contact that never came and somehow got away with no booking. Especially considering how angry the Liverpool "divers" make you.
VAR was spot on today and deserves nothing but praise.
How can you give a penalty against Liverpool when it's clearly stated that the attacking team cannot have a handball in the build up of a goal? Do you give a penalty to City then cancel it out for the handball after it's taken?
You can't chalk off Liverpool's goal because that actually came from a horrendous clearance and not directly from the handball.
Clutching at straws by blaming. Your lot should be a little more gracious in defeat.
Wrong again. There were two arguments here:
1. Did City deserve a penalty?
As per the rules, an attacking team can't be given a goal (or a penalty in this case I'm assuming) if there is a handball in the build up. The last touch before Trent's handball was Bernardo's arm swinging into the ball sending it in Trent's direction.
2. Should Liverpool's goal have been disallowed because of the handball in the build up?
This one has slightly more merit but again the hand ball doesn't actually occur in the build up. There is a phase of play where Man City win back possession and the goal comes from a terrible clearance. So once again, you can see why the goal stands.
As for the Ref giving a foul against City for Bernardo's hand ball. Maybe he played advantage. And if he did can anyone really complain? Isn't this the point of playing an advantage?
I am asking Klopp to buy players for minimum requirements as a fan - you probably have seen what his kids did to almost a full strength Arsenal a week back, enough to prove that guy doesn't need chque-book to showcase his genius. This is a fan's suggestion to a Manager who knows how to build a squad and how to extract the best out of his squad - he doesn't try to get out of trouble by padding up squad with sugar dad's money. Not a single of his players are over priced - VVD & Alisson are just a by product of hyper inflation in transfer market, and considering MCity spending 50mn for Stones, MU spending 80mn for Maguire while Chelsea spending 75mn for Kepa, these two are steals.
What Klopp has done there is simply unbelievable, even if I were not a LFC Fan, I would have admired him. Even considering the market of two years back, Mo for 38mn, Mane for 35mn, Fabinho for 40mn, Matip for free, Shakiri for 12mn, Wjinldum for 23mn ..... are day light robbery. His only question mark so far has been Nabi, but kid is only 24, struggling for fitness in a much physically demading league at a much faster pace - but he is just entering his peak years, going by Klopp's standard, I am sure this guy will be a perfect No. 8 by next year. Add to that the improvement/development has brought in TAA, Robertson, Henderson, Milner, Firmino, Origi .... even Lalana - this guy is just unique. Not every manager wins so many games, fewer does with a budget squad (check his net spending), but only Klopp does that playing such attractive soccer; he did that at Dortmund as well.
I am sure you are aware of the discussions we had regarding two players - Toriera and Fabinho ..... I guess you got the answer - that's what Klopp is doing there. Today, Fabinho was MoM in a game where combined market value of the starting XI is over 1bn BP .... and that guy was bought for 40mn!!!!
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Hasan123
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Your problem is you don't judge them fairly. Yes Pep has spent money but even though players have improved under him you don't believe it's down to him lol.
You didn't beat us in the league cup due to Klopps tactics
It was down to our pathetic defending. Another problem is you think everything that happens is down to Klopps tactics.
I always wanted Fabinho at Arsenal. I thought Torreira was the better player at the time. I was clearly wrong. But trust me I was not happy when Fabinho ended up at Liverpool.
Mamoon
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“Checkbook” manager Pep took a rotten Barcelona, that finished 21 points behind Madrid in 07-08, to a treble in 12 months with a net spend of only 35m, which wasn’t massive enough for 2008. Can anyone name one checkbook manager who can achieve that?
For the sake comparison, Madrid has a net spent of 200m only a year later, and they ended up winning nothing.
The notion that Pep is nothing without money is an ignorant opinion that you would expect from someone who started watching football yesterday.
However, the problem is that MMHS is neither ignorant nor a novice, so you should accept the fact that he has an axe to grind against Pep and I don’t know why. Perhaps it could be because the checkbook manager had made SAF and Mourinho look like schoolchildren on multiple occasions.
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Not sure why you are ranting. I don’t support City and neither do I hate Liverpool. I just took exception to the claim that Liverpool players (mainly Salah and Mane) do not resort to theatrics.
You just have to watch the last 5 mins of any march when Liverpool are a goal down to witness their antics. However, as I said, Liverpool players are not alone here. Nearly every team does the same.
The problem is that Liverpool supporters seem to care too much about projecting a clean image, which unfortunately is not complemented by the actions of the players.
Liverpool deserved to win yesterday and I congratulated them. A part you conveniently skipped.
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Liverpool have got a hefty cushion now, theirs to lose it. Can you imagine? Let's not get too ahead of ourselves but it would a first title for 30 years! Still a good 2 years before Pakistan won the WC.
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pakistani pride
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Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola will face no action from the Football Association for his actions during the defeat by Liverpool on Sunday.
Liverpool beat the Premier League champions 3-1 at Anfield to move eight points clear at the top of the table and nine clear of Guardiola's City.
It came after City had two penalty appeals for handball turned down.
Guardiola could be seen saying "thank you so much" as he shook referee Michael Oliver's hand after the match.
Asked about the incident, the Spaniard said: "No, it was not sarcastic. It was: 'Thank you so much'.
"I said the same thing after the Tottenham game. 'Thank you so much'.
"I go over to the referees and my colleagues and I say 'good luck' all the time."
City were convinced they should have been awarded a penalty for a Trent Alexander-Arnold handball moments before Fabinho struck the opening goal.
Guardiola appeared visibly upset by the decision to allow the goal, suggesting any questions about it should be put to Mike Riley, general manager of Professional Game Match Officials Limited, the body responsible for referees in English professional football.
The City manager offered no comment on the incident beyond saying: "Ask Mike Riley and his people please."
Guardiola was again animated on the touchline when the ball struck Alexander-Arnold on the arm from close range late in the match.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50376236
Liverpool beat the Premier League champions 3-1 at Anfield to move eight points clear at the top of the table and nine clear of Guardiola's City.
It came after City had two penalty appeals for handball turned down.
Guardiola could be seen saying "thank you so much" as he shook referee Michael Oliver's hand after the match.
Asked about the incident, the Spaniard said: "No, it was not sarcastic. It was: 'Thank you so much'.
"I said the same thing after the Tottenham game. 'Thank you so much'.
"I go over to the referees and my colleagues and I say 'good luck' all the time."
City were convinced they should have been awarded a penalty for a Trent Alexander-Arnold handball moments before Fabinho struck the opening goal.
Guardiola appeared visibly upset by the decision to allow the goal, suggesting any questions about it should be put to Mike Riley, general manager of Professional Game Match Officials Limited, the body responsible for referees in English professional football.
The City manager offered no comment on the incident beyond saying: "Ask Mike Riley and his people please."
Guardiola was again animated on the touchline when the ball struck Alexander-Arnold on the arm from close range late in the match.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50376236
Your posts seem to suggest otherwise. Like I said, being gracious in defeat is a virtue.
If all teams supposedly dive then why highlight Mane and Salah?
When there's contact then it changes things. Example being Mane against Villa. He was stood on. Maybe he went down theatrically but he could still have been impeded. Same thing when Salah's shirt get pulled in the box. For a striker who has a split second to get away from the defender and get a shot away, the shirt pull is an impediment.
To be fair, I haven't seen them throw themselves to ground without contact yet so I can't call them cheats. Do they go down easy/theatrically sometimes? Sure.
Are you going to deny that Mane got deserving penalties against Leicester and Tottenham?
They are nowhere near the level of diving I've seen from Kane, Bale, Sterling, Young and Dele Alli.
KingKhanWC
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Yes, I forgot you have never played the game at any decent level! The reason Im pointing this is out is when you play esp in English football, you learn what is excessive and what is not.
Fouls are down to interpretation, there is no exact mathematic definition. Football is a contact sport but this doesn't mean you can make such a contact which impedes a player. I.e You can go shoulder to shoulder, push the opposition player off and this is not a foul. However if you even slighly slip the ankle, leg, boot and this impedes the player even slighltly it is then a foul.
As for diving, again a dive is when no contact has been made or miminal contact which doesn't not impede the player in any way, the player falls to the ground, looking for free kick. You can touch a players leg, if it doesn' slow him down, stop, disadvantage him in any way, it's not a foul but the same contact stops him, it's a foul.
As for LFC players such as Mane or Salah being divers, prove it! Shows examples from this season which I can easliy refute because I've seen every min of every match. Looking forward to some real evidence instead of making claims.
Hasan123
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I don’t understand his problem with Pep. We need to give Klopp credit for improving Salah, Mane, Fabinho, and Firminho.
But Laporte, Sterling, Sane, Fernandinho, etc improving is nothing to do with tactics. Also whenever Liverpool win, he says it’s due to Klopp tactics. Whenever city win, it’s nothing to do with Pep. But when they lose he straight away says he will bring and needs the chequebook.
Doesn’t really make sense. Pep is a great manager.
KingKhan12
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Pep is the best manager. Even though I don't support City. Klopp is great too but overall Pep i reckon is better. I would love to have any of them 2 at Arsenal. Best 2 managers for me around
Man City dominated the match in terms of possession but Liverpool took their chances. The difference is that Liverpool have better finishers compared to City. Aguero doesn't score against us neither does Sterling for some reason as good as they are. As the lads in the studio were saying the penalty decision could have gone either way with the manager's fussing about it. The thing to note was the ball I believe deflected on to Trent's hand whilst I think it was Aguero whose arm was in the same position. The ref has to be much more certain then 50% to give it as a penalty I am afraid. Pep is just a cry baby fed up of losing to Liverpool.
Not wrong at all.
It's either handball or not, you cant pick and choose clear handballs. If Bernardo's was a handball then it should have been a LFC free-kick. If it wasn't then Arnold's could have been a handball.
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KingKhanWC
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Agree but it's down to ones interpretation, this has always been the case with 50/50 decisions. If given a penalty, no probs...if not , no probs still.
Growing up there was a simple rule for handballs. Ball to hand and hand to ball. Any movement of the arm/hand in the direction of the ball, which then stops the ball is hand ball. If no movement of the hand/arm it doesn't matter if the ball strikes, it's not deliberate, thus no hand ball.
On this occasion Trent's was a hand ball imo as his armed moved out towards the ball, a fraction of second before. However another person may see it as Trent was stopping after it hit Silvas hand, which then rebounded onto his arm without him moving it much, so accidental. The ref went with accidental, which is a fair call but if he gave the pen, fair call too.
First of all, the referee can wave play on or play advantage. That's a part of the game that exists. Not every foul/handball has to result in a free kick. That much should be obvious. For all you know, Michael Oliver could've felt both hand balls were accidental and not worthy of a whistle therefore play on.
I didn't make the rules but this is how they go. With respect to City's claim for a penalty, an attacking team cannot get a create goal scoring opportunity with a hand ball in the build up. For reference, see Mane's disallowed goal against United. So there's no case for City to get a penalty.
Now when Michael Oliver stops play and says okay let's go back and see if City get a penalty. VAR shows Bernardo's hand-ball in the build up therefore City can't be given a clear goal-scoring opportunity (as per the rules).
What do you do? Do you chalk off a perfectly legitimate goal and give Liverpool a free-kick in their box? That would be ridiculous so VAR did the sensible thing.
Now there's a good chance Michael Oliver saw both hand-balls and he thought I can't give City a penalty because Bernardo's hand-ball directly led to that and the rules state no hand-balls in build ups to create goal-scoring opportunity. No clear goal scoring opportunity was created so I don't have to blow the whistle so therefore play on.
Then VAR had a look and said well there's no clear and obvious error here so goal stands.
As much as everyone is harping on about this penalty the truth is that if Trent doesn't handle the ball and City score the goal wouldn't have counted anyway. Then how can City be awarded a penalty just thinking logically? The handballs are literally back to back.
From an objective perspective and keeping the rules in mind, what do you think the outcome should've been? And why?
If the proper rules were followed then City couldn't have gotten a penalty. The rules state an attacking team can't create a clear goal-scoring opportunity from a penalty. A penalty is as clear a goal-scoring opportunity as you'll find.
Now if Bernardo doesn't touch it then yea it's a 50/50. But you'd still be opening a can of worms. Everton should've had a penalty when Alli handled it above his head. And Liverpool should've had one against Villa when one of their players blocks a shot against Mane. But the fact it's come directly off Bernardo's hand kills any argument for a City pen.
If the "victims" weren't City in this case and the beneficiaries weren't Liverpool, this wouldn't even have been a debate honestly.
KingKhanWC
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Sure, no issues with your correct statement.
I was merely discussing the merits of a free kick from a hand ball(generally). UEFA changed this by suggesting anytime a ball hits the arm/hand it's a penalty but the PL have realised this is against the fundemantals of football rules. As you wrote, a ball hitting the hand can be accidental, thus no free kick. The issue is interpretion if its deliberate or accidental. This will always be up to the ref to decide and VAR will not overrule unless they feel it was totally wrong.
Mamoon
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Saint Klopp spent 52 million On Nabi Keita, a midfielder who is Liverpool’s fifth choice at the moment. But no, only Pep has a checkbook in his hand.
KingKhan12
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The problem here is Michael Oliver didn't see Bernardo Silvas handball.
When VAR intervened and looked at it they didn't say anything about Bernardo Silvas handball so they let play continue from their. Their excuse was Trent Arnolds arm was not in a un-natural position which is not true at all. Clearly he sticked his arm out towards the ball so it's a clear penalty then.
This Bernardo Silva handball is being played out by most as they didn't want City to win.
If Referee on the day and VAR clearly stated on the day that their decision had nothing to do with Bernardo Silvas handball then they made a wrong decision which is blatant.
Mamoon
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Trent showcased his basketball skills on multiple occasions in that game.
Nevertheless, it was a 50-50 decision and City defended poorly against the counter-attack that led to Fabinho’s goal, so this decision cannot be used as an excuse. Man City played very well with a depleted playing XI.
How do you know MO didn't see Bernardo's handball? The fact VAR doesn't mention it doesn't mean MO didn't see it. VAR could've only looked at Trent's hand ball and said that's not a clear and obvious error so move on.
The point of VAR is to find objective clear and obvious errors. What you're stating is an opinion which is subjective not objective.
With regards to "most didn't want City to win". That's just some classic victimhood. City fans right now are talking off the game being bent and officials being biased. Ex-pros talking about it being 13 v 11.
Even the Sterling vs Gomez fall out, City fans are suggesting Sterling is the victim or Sterling was correct in trying to engage in a fight with Gomez while on England duty.
If that's your mindset then I can't help you. It's one thing to feel hard done by a decision and wallowing in your self pity for a bit and it's completely another to feel so entitled to win that you think only a conspiracy could've prevented from happening.
I don't get involved in this ** about spending but you can't just lie. Keita has been hampered by injuries in his 1 year at Liverpool. That's the biggest reason why he isn't starting. Same with Ox really.
Also for the record, look at the net spend of City and Liverpool over the last 5 years:
Man City: 669M Euros
Man Utd: 486m Euros
Arsenal: 292m Euros
Everton: 250m Euros
Southampton: 229m Euros
Wolves: 228m Euros
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
Liverpool: 111m Euros.
Liverpool have the 14th highest net spend over the last 5 years in the league. Last 3 out of 5 years they've actually made a profit.
I don't know if Pep is a checkbook manager or not and I would argue he isn't but having 6 times the budget of another club certainly helps.
The truth is Liverpool have spent very wisely. They brought in VVD and Alisson and both improved them massively. Keita and Ox have had injury problems but otherwise I would assume both would be regulars.
In fact, Karius is the only bust I can think off under Klopp and he cost 5m or so.
Pep may not be a check book manager and may be a better manager than Klopp sure. They absolutely do not operate with the same budget or net spend.
Mamoon
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Keita has been hampered by injuries but he has also been poor when he has been fit. Chamberlain has surpassed him in the pecking order with his excellent performances. It will be difficult for Keita to establish himself as a starter and he will probably be sold soon.
It was a poor signing by Klopp in the first place - he is not a bad player, but he didn’t need to spend 50 million on a player when he already had Fabinho (signed a month before Keita), Henderson, Wijnaldum and Chamberlain.
That 50 million could have been spent more wisely to strengthen the team in a different area where they are not stacked. Liverpool fan’s complain about the lack of squad depth but Klopp hasn’t handled covered himself in glory on that front. Signing an attacking player to cover for Salah, Mane and Firmino would have been more prudent than signing another midfielder.
Also, you need to understand the context of MMHS’s criticism of Pep. He claims that he is only successful because he buys expensive players, but that is also true for Klopp. There is a reason why he paid world record fees for Alisson and VVD instead of settling for cheaper alternatives. That is not a dig at Klopp - it is simply the reality of modern football - you have to pay big money if you want to sign quality, and Pep is not alone on this front.
As far as net spending is concerned, Liverpool got lucky because of the 100 million that they got for Coutinho. Unfortunately, City don’t have any world class players who are desperate to leave the club for Barcelona or Madrid. If De Bruyne was to force a move, Pep can easily recoup more than what Liverpool got for Coutinho and his net spend wouldn’t look that bad.
Both Klopp and Pep have different circumstances in different clubs. If Klopp was at City he wouldn’t have a lower net spend than Pep.
Kroll
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Pep is the best manager in the world, that's proven. Mourinho had truck loads of cash with Man Utd but couldn't do anything.
But Klopp is going to outgun Pep this time around. Title is coming to Anfield boys.
But Klopp is going to outgun Pep this time around. Title is coming to Anfield boys.
Hasan123
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But it’s only because of injury he isn’t performing. MMHS conveniently forgetting that when he has been fit he has not been good enough.
Hasan123
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I love Pep. I was desperate for us to get him. It was a dream that was never going to happen.
I did have doubts about Klopp, but he has proven me wrong.
KingKhanWC
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Pep is the best manager in the world, that's proven. Mourinho had truck loads of cash with Man Utd but couldn't do anything.
But Klopp is going to outgun Pep this time around. Title is coming to Anfield boys.
Pep made many mistakes this season. Not signing another defender after Kompany left was very poor.
In terms of tactics, again he was poor. Bringing in a left back who hardly plays and cannot defend against Trent and Salah pretty much killed them off.
A top class manager but the best? No chance.
First of all quit shifting goal posts. You said both Klopp and Pep spend the same amount. I showed you Pep spent 6 times more than Klopp. Now you're pointing out individual signings.
Keita was an excellent signing. He offered something different and something that was missing after Coutinho's departure, the ability to beat a man and score goals. His form hasn't bee poor at all. He just can't get a run of games because of injuries. Branding him as a poor signing would be like branding Mendy as a poor signing.
It's also not a poor signing because Klopps midfield is dependent on runners. And therefore he rotates his midfield a lot which means he needs options. That's why Klopp has depth in that one position more than any other. Also Keita was actually signed a year before Fabinho so you're wrong there as well. Not to mention, they play in completely different positions. Fabinho is strictly a DM while Keita can play the following CM/CAM/LM. For the record, Keita was also signed before the OX was if we are discussing actual facts.
It's easy to say the 50m could've spent differently but at that point Liverpool still had Coutinho and Sturridge and Lallana was fit and in form as well. They also only really had Hendo, Milly, Gini and Lallana in midfield. Klopp's a great manager but he's not a clairvoyant.
Another reason Klopp hasn't strengthened that position is because he doesn't spend for the sake of spending which is your whole premise regarding Klopp. He would rather buy a player that will improve the team immediately or promote/improve a younger player. The players that would improve that position are out of reach for monetary reasons. For example Pep can afford to buy a Mahrez for the bench but Klopp can't.
Klopp pays big money for the right players though. Look at his success rate in the transfer window. You can't ignore that his net spend is remarkably low for a Champions league winning and potentially premier league winning squad.
Liverpool weren't lucky to get a 100 million for Coutinho if he's world class. You can't have it both ways. They lost a world class player and they reinvested the money as well as they could have. I don't understand which part of that is luck.
I don't think Pep is a check book manager but he does need money to to win more than Klopp does. Pep is a world class manager but he will not promote youth and if he does not believe in you he will discard you regardless of the cost (Mangala, Hart, Nolito, Kolarov, Sagna, Fernando etc).
Could you envision a scenario where Pep would keep players like Milner and Origi and try to get results out of them? I absolutely can't.
If Klopp was at City he would have a lower net spend I can tell you that. Klopp genuinely doesn't like spending for the sake of spending.
And instead of talking about literally 3 individual expensive transfers (2 of which are the best players in their positions) let's focus on the net spends as they are a greater indication of spending trends.
If you'd like we can discuss their spending in the Bundesliga as well if you're not convinced still.
That being said, here are the two points that remain:
1. Pep is more dependent on spending than Klopp.
2. Liverpool has operated on 1/6th the budget of Man City.
3. Pep and Klopp are both still world class managers according to me.
In fact, I'll go as far as saying that Pep would not have signed with City (as opposed to United) if they couldn't offer the biggest budget in the league. That's his prerogative though.
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