Who are the truly GREAT cricketers?

[bujhee kom]

Being an ATG means you are a legit contender for an alltime xi. Very few are such calibre. Many stars can be regarded as 'era great' but very few are truly contenders for AT XI honours. Even if we select 2 possible AT XIs.

They wont necessarily get in, but a firm case can be presented. It is the highest benchmark you can set and the one traditionally used. By this yardstick, who are ATGs for each Test side?

As this is PP, let me offer:

Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis

That is it being honest.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Good thread.

I think a distinction needs to be made between world class and all time greats.

My list of atg batsmen to start off with:

Lara
Viv
Sobers
Sachin
Gavaskar
Bradman
Ponting
Gooch
Chappel
Alan Border

Am I missing anyone?

 

[bujhee kom]

I prefer to cite by team. We can collect position data afterwards.

WI ATGs

Sobers
Viv
Lara
Headley (some issue with pre-war guys but nonetheless all scholars regard him as top draw)

Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Garner
Roberts

(Many more world class but for at xi these are in contention).

 

[blackanhyellow]

Fair enough.

For Pakistan I wouldnt really offer any batsmen. The best we have is Miandad, who is up there but imo not quite.

Bowlers you already mentioned: imran, wasim, waqar.

 

[bujhee kom]

Lanka:

Murali
Sanga

Bangladesh

None (yet).

 

[blackanhyellow]

India:

Batsmen:

Gavaskar
Sachin

Bowlers:

Not sure. Kumble and Kapil were their best but they dont make the atg category by a margin imo.

 

[bujhee kom]

India

Gavaskar
Tendulkar

Both top draw. SG for me is a cert.

 

[bujhee kom]

India:

Batsmen:

Gavaskar
Sachin

Bowlers:

Not sure. Kumble and Kapil were their best but they dont make the atg category by a margin imo.

No Indian bowler is close tbh.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Lanka:

Murali
Sanga

Bangladesh

None (yet).

Disagree with sanga.

Murali for sure though.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Being a great means changing the game of Cricket, not stats.

Imran Khan
Waqar Younis
Wasim Akran
Sunil Gavaskar
Rahul Dravid
Viv Richards

To name but a few.

 

[Robert]

The ones who change the game.

WG Grace
SF Barnes
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sir Garry Sobers
DK Lillee
Imran Khan
Murali

 

[The_Odd_One]

All formats considered

Viv
Hadlee
Imran
Akram
Tendulkar
Lara
Warne
Murali
Gilchrist
McGrath
Kallis

 

[bujhee kom]

All formats considered

Viv
Hadlee
Imran
Akram
Tendulkar
Lara
Warne
Murali
Gilchrist
McGrath
Kallis

Open a new thread for ODIs please. This is Test specific.

For me an ATG has to meet the criteria cited in #1. Stats play a part in that they reflect a career's output but the context of runs/wickets means as much. Ask if player x would be a contender for an alltime X1 (A or B team). If not, he's not making the cut. He may be an era great which is still tremendous.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Open a new thread for ODIs please. This is Test specific.

For me an ATG has to meet the criteria cited in #1. Stats play a part in that they reflect a career's output but the context of runs/wickets means as much. Ask if player x would be a contender for an alltime X1 (A or B team). If not, he's not making the cut. He may be an era great which is still tremendous.

Imran
Wasim

Gavaskar
Tendulkar

Sanga
Murali

G Pollock
Kallis
Steyn

Sobers
Viv
Lara
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

Bradman
Miller
Border
Waugh
Ponting
G Chappell
Gilchrist
Lillee
Warne
McGrath

Hobbs

Hadlee

 

[bujhee kom]

Imran
Wasim

Gavaskar
Tendulkar

Sanga
Murali

G Pollock
Kallis
Steyn

Sobers
Viv
Lara
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

Bradman
Miller
Border
Waugh
Ponting
G Chappell
Gilchrist
Lillee
Warne
McGrath

Hobbs

Hadlee

Very fair list. Perhaps the term tier 1 ATG is less troublesome.
The other greats who miss out in by this strict benchmark can be seen as tier 2 ATGs.

 

[bujhee kom]

For England:

Hobbs
Hammond
Knott
Botham

I have issues with Hobbs/Hammond but Knotty was supreme behind the stumps.

 

[Ab Fan]

Imran
Wasim

Gavaskar
Tendulkar

Sanga
Murali

G Pollock
Kallis
Steyn

Sobers
Viv
Lara
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

Bradman
Miller
Border
Waugh
Ponting
G Chappell
Gilchrist
Lillee
Warne
McGrath

Hobbs

Hadlee

Allan Donald is a legitimate ATG buddy.

 

[bujhee kom]

Allan Donald is a legitimate ATG buddy.

No doubt.

Donald was a truly great quick.

I'd add Waqar to the list too.

 

[Spectrum]

For India (all format combined)

ATGs
Sachin Tendulkar
Sunil Gavaskar
Rahul Dravid
Virat Kohli (future ATG for sure)
Kapil Dev

Country Greats who had significant contribution to the world cricket
Anil Kumble
Spin Quartet
VVS Laxman
Virendra Sehwag
Sourav Ganguly
Gundappa Vishwanath
Harbhajan Singh
Mohammad Azharuddin


Other Greats
Vinoo Mankad
Vijay Hazare
Vijay Mercahnt
Zaheer Khan
R Ashwin
Yuvraj Singh
Gautam Gambhir
Javagal Srinath

 

[blackanhyellow]

Imran
Wasim

Gavaskar
Tendulkar

Sanga
Murali

G Pollock
Kallis
Steyn

Sobers
Viv
Lara
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

Bradman
Miller
Border
Waugh
Ponting
G Chappell
Gilchrist
Lillee
Warne
McGrath

Hobbs

Hadlee

Good list. I would add Waqar and take out sanga to it for the only changes.

 

[Ocelot]

If I've to compile a list of truly GREAT footballers, then it would be:
Pele, Maradonna, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Zidane, Messi, C. Ronaldo.

In the same sense, for truly GREAT cricketers:
Bradman, Grace, Hobbs, Viv Richards, Border, Lillee, Warne, Tendulkar, Imran Khan.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Allan Donald is a legitimate ATG buddy.

Yes, he is an ATG and so is Shaun Pollock. My list has cricketers who have a chance to make the world XI.

Not many wil pick Donald and Pollock over Marshall, Lillee, McGrath, Akram, Imran, Hadlee, Ambrose, Steyn, etc.

 

[bujhee kom]

Yes, he is an ATG and so is Shaun Pollock. My list has cricketers who have a chance to make the world XI.

Not many wil pick Donald and Pollock over Marshall, Lillee, McGrath, Akram, Imran, Hadlee, Ambrose, Steyn, etc.

Donald is the equal of anyone. Polly less so for me.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Donald is the equal of anyone. Polly less so for me.

His extremely poor record against the best team of his time goes against him.

 

[bujhee kom]

His extremely poor record against the best team of his time goes against him.

Did you watch AD? Sheesh! What a great fast bowler.

 

[Ab Fan]

His extremely poor record against the best team of his time goes against him.

He averages 31 against Australia. That is extremely poor?

It is actually not even bad. A top tier ATG in my opinion. 20 5-fers in 72 tests and he missed 6 peak years of his career(1986-1992). Absolute terrorising bowler the world has seen.

 

[The_Odd_One]

He averages 31 against Australia. That is extremely poor?

It is actually not even bad. A top tier ATG in my opinion. 20 5-fers in 72 tests and he missed 6 peak years of his career(1986-1992). Absolute terrorising bowler the world has seen.

A difference of 9 points from his career average is way too high. An average of 31 is very poor in a bowler friendly era with just 2 5-fers in 14 tests.

Donald was a terrifying bowler and one of the best of all time but other ATG bowlers will be always picked ahead of him.

 

[Ab Fan]

For India (all format combined)

ATGs
Sachin Tendulkar
Sunil Gavaskar
Rahul Dravid
Virat Kohli (future ATG for sure)
Kapil Dev

Country Greats who had significant contribution to the world cricket
Anil Kumble
Spin Quartet
VVS Laxman
Virendra Sehwag
Sourav Ganguly
Gundappa Vishwanath
Harbhajan Singh
Mohammad Azharuddin


Other Greats
Vinoo Mankad
Vijay Hazare
Vijay Mercahnt
Zaheer Khan
R Ashwin
Yuvraj Singh
Gautam Gambhir
Javagal Srinath

Agree with Kapil. It is hard to understand people devaluing his achievement and discrediting him from ATG.

 

[hk031992]

In no order:

Viv
Marshall
Ambrose
Lara
Sobers
Greenidge
Haynes

Imran
Wasim
Waqar

Ponting
McGrath
Greg Chappell
Warne
Border
Gilchrist
S Waugh
Lillee

Tendulkar
Gavaskar
Kapil

Hadlee

Gooch

Kallis
Steyn
Donald
G Smith

Murali
Sangakkara

This is just for tests

 

[hk031992]

A difference of 9 points from his career average is way too high. An average of 31 is very poor in a bowler friendly era with just 2 5-fers in 14 tests.

Donald was a terrifying bowler and one of the best of all time but other ATG bowlers will be always picked ahead of him.

That is very deceptive. Donald's average vs Aus rose dramatically in his last series vs them. He was 36 years old, had injury issues and had lost his pace. He couldn't bowl well vs such a great batting line up without his speed, so his average went up. This is understandable and should not be held against him.

 

[Buffet]

That is very deceptive. Donald's average vs Aus rose dramatically in his last series vs them. He was 36 years old, had injury issues and had lost his pace. He couldn't bowl well vs such a great batting line up without his speed, so his average went up. This is understandable and should not be held against him.

Just to add some data,

Donald averaged 27 against Aus before his last series against Aus. Total 11 tests.

 

[bujhee kom]

Just to add some data,

Donald averaged 27 against Aus before his last series against Aus. Total 11 tests.

Wasim has the same issue. Last series v Aus harmed his stats. Wasim and Warne are the 2 authentic bowling geniuses of that era.

 

[PakLFC]

These are the ones who had a last impression on the game one way or another.

Imran Khan
Viv Richards
Gary Sobers
Sachin Tendulkar
Malcolm Marshall
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Brain Lara
Dennis Lillee
Muttiah Muralitharan

 

[Asch Ali]

1. Aamer Sohail
2. Gavaskar
3. Sangakarra
4. Tendulkar
5. Gilchrist
6. Imran Khan
7. Wasim Akram
8. Waqar Younis
9. Marshall
10. Warne
11. Saqlain Mushtaq

12. Shaheen Shah Afridi

 

[Send1983]

1. Aamer Sohail
2. Gavaskar
3. Sangakarra
4. Tendulkar
5. Gilchrist
6. Imran Khan
7. Wasim Akram
8. Waqar Younis
9. Marshall
10. Warne
11. Saqlain Mushtaq

12. Shaheen Shah Afridi

AAMIR SOHAIL? Get out of here.

 

[Asch Ali]

AAMIR SOHAIL? Get out of here.

He’s good

 

[Mueez]

He’s good

Oh jaa oye!
I'd prefer Zaheer Abbas than Amir Sohail.