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Who has been a greater contributor to the Test team since come back - Sohail Khan or Mohammad Amir?

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Statsman

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Sohail Khan
  • He has given some good match winning spells
  • Highlight: Averaged 25 in England with 2 5 wicket hauls despite playing half the number of games Amir played to average 42.41 (0 5 wicket hauls)
  • Good contributor with the bat - played almost as an all rounder
Bowling average: 32
SR: 56
Batting average: 21

Mohammad Amir
  • He has also given some good spells
  • Unlucky with dropped catches and some say lack of good bowling partners (??)
Bowling average: 38
SR: 74
Batting average: 13


Both have their economy in 3.xx range
 
Amir hasn't done much, and deserves all the criticism his way, but this doesn't prove much. Sohail Khan is garbage now and at the ripe old age of 36 doesn't have the durability for tests.

It's why the topic of bringing Asif instead of Sohail if you want to play a right armer 30+ dude has been beaten to death.
 
Statsman said:
Sohail Khan
  • He has given some good match winning spells
  • Highlight: Averaged 25 in England with 2 5 wicket hauls despite playing half the number of games Amir played to average 42.41 (0 5 wicket hauls)
  • Good contributor with the bat - played almost as an all rounder
Bowling average: 32
SR: 56
Batting average: 21

Mohammad Amir
  • He has also given some good spells
  • Unlucky with dropped catches and some say lack of good bowling partners (??)
Bowling average: 38
SR: 74
Batting average: 13


Both have their economy in 3.xx range
Click to expand...

Stats says all. No need to argue or excuse with imaginations.
 
Sohail Khan gets too much grief on here, he was the difference maker in the England series. Our pace attack got walloped at Old Trafford whilst Yasir was more influential at Lord's. And we needed a right-armer after playing three lefties.

Sohail's problem is his fitness to bowl longer spells.
 
Stats are not the only criterion we judge fast bowler with, you have to watch the bowling live. Amir has been bowling much better than any other current bowlers in Pak team including Sohail Khan. He has been extremely unlucky with more dropped catches on his bowling than others. Getting back to rhythm and hopefully will keep getting better. Sohail with his military medium pace, age and lack of fitness, will not last more than 6 months to a year at international level.
 
Sohail Khan averages a beastly 123 in the second innings of tests. Do we really want such a bowler to be the leader of our attack?.

He hasn't picked up a wicket in the second innings of the match in God knows how long.
 
Agree with you completely. I understand if the fielder drops one or two catches. If 12/ 13 catches that were dropped on amir bowling ; if we take that in to factor the number will look very very different. My opinion in the PCB current squad, amir is the best bowler so far.
 
Watched plenty of Amir since he's back - particularly in tests....

He isn't a wonderkid anymore but Amir is still a fine young bowler who asks all the right questions of batsmen. For what it is worth, he's just great to watch too...Even commentators regularly talk about him now as still bowling nicely and just enjoy watching him go through his overs.

The drops are a factor, especially the number. Even as a Pak bowler, he's suffered way more than his fair share (though slip catching across teams appears to be poorer). And catches dropped must dent a bowler and surely dishearten him, preventing wickets leading to more wickets.

At this current moment, I'd consider swapping him for Rabada or Starc but it would still be a consideration only, Amir's a fine bowler and I think he'll continue to progress.

Ultimately, he's a far more complete bowler than any of our other quicks...
 
what is this fascination with sohails second innings performances??

since when is any bowler micro analysed on six matches like that? the guy has been played after 5 years too, but theres no slack given to him, despite him performing? theres so little intelligence in some of these posts its frightening.

its a handful of games where everyone has failed pretty much in second innings apart from the few wickets taken on slogs that have gone to hand - how does that discount the fact that even despite those second innings spells, hes still near the top of the pace performers recently? goes to show how much more indispensable he is for the first innings which is where so often games are won and lost.

even if one wanted to do the idiotic thing and micro-analyse 6 games as if its sensible to draw conclusions from that, have any of you even looked at those performances relative to the other pacers?

1. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/913645.html

he takes 2, amir takes 2, rahat takes 0 - he's not the worst, but theres so little difference.

2. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/913647.html

amir takes 0, sohail takes 1, wahab takes 2 - he's not the worst but theres so little difference.

3. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1050229.html

amir takes 3, sohail takes 0, wahab takes 1 - he is the worst but theres so little difference.

4. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1050231.html

sohail takes 0 rahat takes 1, spinners take 9 - how can you judge him on this?

5. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1019993.html

amir takes 1, rahat and sohail take 0 - hes not the worst but theres hardly any difference.

6. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1019995.html

amir takes 1, sohail 0, imran 3 - hes the worst but theres hardly any difference.

does it make any sense whatsoever to single him out for poor collective performances of all our pacers in the second innings, where in half the games hes played hes not even the worst and in the others theres hardly any difference? and thats not even taking into account how much better he has been in the first innings.

the fact is that hes not great, and hes not awful, and neither is anyone else in the pace battery except wahab who is trash (but if theres any wickets he is likely to put his best performances in, they are the aussie ones).
 
Did both play enough tests to deserve such comparison? 25-30 tests will even out luck, skill etc. 4-5 matches are not enough to use stats to make a comparison.
 
This is where the stats don't actually tell the whole story!

#ButterFingers
 
godzilla said:
what is this fascination with sohails second innings performances??

since when is any bowler micro analysed on six matches like that? the guy has been played after 5 years too, but theres no slack given to him, despite him performing? theres so little intelligence in some of these posts its frightening.

its a handful of games where everyone has failed pretty much in second innings apart from the few wickets taken on slogs that have gone to hand - how does that discount the fact that even despite those second innings spells, hes still near the top of the pace performers recently? goes to show how much more indispensable he is for the first innings which is where so often games are won and lost.

even if one wanted to do the idiotic thing and micro-analyse 6 games as if its sensible to draw conclusions from that, have any of you even looked at those performances relative to the other pacers?

1. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/913645.html

he takes 2, amir takes 2, rahat takes 0 - he's not the worst, but theres so little difference.

2. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/913647.html

amir takes 0, sohail takes 1, wahab takes 2 - he's not the worst but theres so little difference.

3. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1050229.html

amir takes 3, sohail takes 0, wahab takes 1 - he is the worst but theres so little difference.

4. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1050231.html

sohail takes 0 rahat takes 1, spinners take 9 - how can you judge him on this?

5. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1019993.html

amir takes 1, rahat and sohail take 0 - hes not the worst but theres hardly any difference.

6. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1019995.html

amir takes 1, sohail 0, imran 3 - hes the worst but theres hardly any difference.

does it make any sense whatsoever to single him out for poor collective performances of all our pacers in the second innings, where in half the games hes played hes not even the worst and in the others theres hardly any difference? and thats not even taking into account how much better he has been in the first innings.

the fact is that hes not great, and hes not awful, and neither is anyone else in the pace battery except wahab who is trash (but if theres any wickets he is likely to put his best performances in, they are the aussie ones).
Click to expand...

Except Sohail Khan visibly looks poor and unfit in comparison. His pace drops 5 KPH in the 2nd innings.

Mickey Arthur called him out for it too.
 
kingusama92 said:
Except Sohail Khan visibly looks poor and unfit in comparison. His pace drops 5 KPH in the 2nd innings.

Mickey Arthur called him out for it too.
Click to expand...

so what? even if thats the case, he's not underperforming the others.

one thing is to say hes not great, which may or may not be the case, its another to say he's worse than the others and so should be dropped - the first question is meaningless without addressing the second. and he's not worse than the others.
 
Sohail has been treated unfairly. Obviously Amir is the Chosen One and won't be dropped, but the former certainly deserves to play in Rahat's place.
 
godzilla said:
so what? even if thats the case, he's not underperforming the others.

one thing is to say hes not great, which may or may not be the case, its another to say he's worse than the others and so should be dropped - the first question is meaningless without addressing the second. and he's not worse than the others.
Click to expand...

There's a difference.

With Sohail Khan, the pace goes down due to his fitness.

It's not the same thing as simply not performing well. The other bowlers still have a chance of doing well because their pace and effort doesn't drop as the test progresses.

I will take bowlers who will give me consistent effort throughout. You can't have someone who does well in one innings and then is a given to fail in the 2nd innings.

Havid said that, he's better than Rahat. :))
 
godzilla said:
so what? even if thats the case, he's not underperforming the others.

one thing is to say hes not great, which may or may not be the case, its another to say he's worse than the others and so should be dropped - the first question is meaningless without addressing the second. and he's not worse than the others.
Click to expand...

Ironically, I have seen same posters argue that Asif can be taken in the team for those quick 2-3 wickets in the opening spell even if he if unfit to bowl properly in later spell/ second innings.

Sohail is doing more than that, and additionally adding those 20-30 runs in the end, a lot of time contributing more with the bat than a few frontline batsmen. :yk2
 
kingusama92 said:
There's a difference.

With Sohail Khan, the pace goes down due to his fitness.

It's not the same thing as simply not performing well. The other bowlers still have a chance of doing well because their pace and effort doesn't drop as the test progresses.

I will take bowlers who will give me consistent effort throughout. You can't have someone who does well in one innings and then is a given to fail in the 2nd innings.

Havid said that, he's better than Rahat. :))
Click to expand...

yes he is better than rahat. i dont understand the argument though, surely performance is all that matters. you would rather have some fit who doesnt take any wickets over someone you think may not be fit but who consistently does? i wouldnt.

Statsman said:
Ironically, I have seen same posters argue that Asif can be taken in the team for those quick 2-3 wickets in the opening spell even if he if unfit to bowl properly in later spell/ second innings.

Sohail is doing more than that, and additionally adding those 20-30 runs in the end, a lot of time contributing more with the bat than a few frontline batsmen. :yk2
Click to expand...

theres no surprises there unfortunately. theres so little intelligence and denial of demonstrable fact in so many posts, its tiresome.
 
godzilla said:
yes he is better than rahat. i dont understand the argument though, surely performance is all that matters. you would rather have some fit who doesnt take any wickets over someone you think may not be fit but who consistently does? i wouldnt.
Click to expand...

An unfit bowler is inexcusable. You can't carry such a risk in your XI since he could breakdown at any moment.

Ideally, both Rahat and Sohail Khan should be phased out.
 
kingusama92 said:
An unfit bowler is inexcusable. You can't carry such a risk in your XI since he could breakdown at any moment.

Ideally, both Rahat and Sohail Khan should be phased out.
Click to expand...

Does this apply to Asif as well?
 
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