Who is a better Test opener - Alastair Cook or Mike Atherton?

[Ab Fan]

While statistically, there is no comparison between the two, one averages 45 and the other averages 39.

However, Atherton faced some of the ATG bowling attacks of McGrath/Warne(Aus), Ambrose/Walsh(WI), Donald/Pollock(SA) and Wasim/Waqar(Pak) and had to deal with ATG bowlers home and away both.

In contrast, Cook has pretty much struggled whenever he gets to face ATG attack i.e. Aus and SA and delivered only once when the bowling attack was average.His numbers are also poor vs Boult and Southee in New Zealand.

So, who was the better opener, ofcourse, Atherton had a Zimbabwe level, so winning in India and Australia is beyond his team's capabilities?

Discuss!

 

[Sam99]

Atherton for me. Being opener and facing great bowler which every team had min 2 was really hard that too in english conditions though i haven't followed both alot so i can't really say much but Atherton was bunny of all great bowlers.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Farcical comparison, Atherton could never dream of shaping series wins in Australia and India. Cook is on his last legs but he is easily England's best opener in the last 30 years.

 

[Pakhs]

Farcical comparison, Atherton could never dream of shaping series wins in Australia and India. Cook is on his last legs but he is easily England's best opener in the last 30 years.

I agree with you. Cook at his best was definitely better than Atherton.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I agree with you. Cook at his best was definitely better than Atherton.

I followed the England team very closely during the nineties, that team were not short of talent but suffered due to lack of leadership and indiscipline. The selection policies were mind-boggling and talented players such as Smith, Ramprakash, Hick, Caddick, Fraser, Tufnell, Lewis and Malcolm were mismanaged. I'd argue even the likes of Stewart were not allowed to fulfil their potential. Atherton was the golden boy of the establishment because he had the right background (Cambridge blue) and he was someone who was not likely to upset the apple cart as Hussain did when he was made captain in 1999. Atherton definitely had the ability to have a better record than he wound up with but due to technical and fitness issues he flattered to deceive. He had two great moments in his career, both against South Africa (185 to save a test in Johannesburg and the confrontation with Donald at Trent Bridge), but other than that his career is a litany of failures.

Cook, although by no means an ATG, has scored runs in all conditions and was instrumental in two of the most high profile tours imaginable. Yes, the quality of fast bowlers is not as good as it was in the nineties, and cricket is not as high profile in England as it used to be, but the psychological pressure remains the same. Your technique is more closely scrutinized in this era, there is nowhere to hide, the slightest chink gets exposed. Cook has been a high class and dependable performer since his debut, which aligned to the fact that he is England's highest ever scorer puts him comfortably above whatever Atherton achieved.

Now if the debate was between Cook and his old Essex mentor, Graham Gooch, I might have a different answer.

 

[Junaids]

Athers.

He played on livelier pitches against balls with a bigger seam.

 

[Justcrazy]

Cook , he is ahead of Artherton.

 

[Robert]

Interesting.

Put Athers in the modern team and he would score more runs than he did in the nineties, because the bowling was stronger then. I think he was technically better than Cook against good pace bowling.

He would also benefit from a central contract, and his back would hold up better than it did.

 

[UN talkz]

Alastair Cook

 

[The_Odd_One]

Atherton faced Wasim, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock, McGrath, and Warne in their peak years. Cook would not even average 39 in that era.

 

[Robert]

Farcical comparison, Atherton could never dream of shaping series wins in Australia and India. Cook is on his last legs but he is easily England's best opener in the last 30 years.

I disagree. Gooch and Stewart overcame the best opening bowlers of their days. Cook did not.

 

[Hitman]

Atherton didn't average 39, it's 37.69

 

[Last Monetarist]

I disagree. Gooch and Stewart overcame the best opening bowlers of their days. Cook did not.

I think Cook has become severely underrated since he gave up the captaincy. He should have retired after the tour to India 18 months ago because his record is getting worse by the day, and memories are short.

I don't at all disagree with respect to Gooch and Stewart and their ability to play quick bowling. I've mentioned before that Stewart is one of my favourite cricketers of all time. Cook doesn't come near that, but I temper that with Cook's record against India (before this summer). I really do think Cook was on his way to being an all-time great going by his performances between 2006 and 2012, but something cracked afterwards. Maybe it was captaincy that broke him, like it has so many others before him including Atherton and Stewart.

 

[Bouncer]

I think Cook has become severely underrated since he gave up the captaincy. He should have retired after the tour to India 18 months ago because his record is getting worse by the day, and memories are short.

I don't at all disagree with respect to Gooch and Stewart and their ability to play quick bowling. I've mentioned before that Stewart is one of my favourite cricketers of all time. Cook doesn't come near that, but I temper that with Cook's record against India (before this summer). I really do think Cook was on his way to being an all-time great going by his performances between 2006 and 2012, but something cracked afterwards. Maybe it was captaincy that broke him, like it has so many others before him including Atherton and Stewart.

Alec was one massivly underrated batsman of his era.

GREAT INTERVIEW.

Watching Alec in 90's was a great experience. He was an excellent timer of the ball and wonderful strokemaker who always took on fast bowlers like W's, Donald, Ambrose, Walsh he played some of my favorite innings against the highest quality attacks. I will never forget his 100th test match where he scored a great 100 and I do not remember anyone playing as good of back foot drives, punches through off side as he did in that inning.
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...istan-quot-Alec-Stewart&p=8066883#post8066883

Here was one of my posts about him from 2007...damn I feel old now

Hmmm...Great would be giving him more credit than he deserves......was good inning but no where near great

Alec Stewrat played better inning with better strokes against better bowlers in that game!

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ry-(141)-v-England-1996&p=1167407#post1167407

GREAT THREAD.

My personal favorite was Alec Stewrat's 170 at leeds in 1996. He is one of the best stroke maker against fast bowling and yet one of the more underrated ones. In that inning the way he blasted Wasim and Waqar was just pure joy to watch...specially some of his back foot drives and punches were amazing
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ring-of-Wasim-and-Waqar&p=7982118#post7982118

 

[Last Monetarist]

Alec was one massivly underrated batsman of his era.




Here was one of my posts about him from 2007...damn I feel old now

Merci beaucoup ! It's a super drive (or one of Stewart's glorious pulls off one leg) down memory lane, absolutely marvellous that you have dug up this post.

I also will never forget his century in his 100th test at Old Trafford, the ovation he got still gives me goosebumps when I view it on youtube https://youtu.be/pbVGqEiaiWM?t=8m40s. Sadly, I don't think you will ever see an ovation like that on an English cricket ground again.

There were several other innings he played that I recall with great fondness (the twin centuries in Barbados in '94, 164 vs South Africa to save the test at Old Trafford in '98, a century during the Boxing Day test in '98). I don't think I've ever felt as much anticipation watching cricket as the moment when Stewart used to walk to the crease during the 1990s.

 

[Bewal Express]

I have watched both and Atherton was better but his stats are poorer for 2 reasons: he faced much better bowlers and his back caused real problems towards the end of his career but Cooke has also been very good in his career.

 

[pillionrider]

If Atherton is better than Cook, Tendulkar is the greatest batsman to walk this earth.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

If Atherton is better than Cook, Tendulkar is the greatest batsman to walk this earth.

Trolling aside. Put prime SRT in these kinda ODI rules and bowling standards and he might average 65+ with 105+ SR.

For me, Alastair Cook is the greatest test opener of last decade.

At one point, people were saying that he might break SRT's most runs/100s record. That's an ATG player.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Cook is(or was) a very good player,but overrated.I never saw Atherton bat but I guess his average would have been higher in modern times.Cannot compare the two,since I’ve only watched one of them.

 

[IMMY69]

Atherton for me for all of the reasons given above.

 

[hadi123]

Poll added! I voted for Alastair Cook, as I have never seen Atherton bat.

 

[Zaz]

Alistair is better but not by much He has always had the ability to grind out big scores against any attack throughout his career and score no matter what the conditions

Atherton would never score big like cook Yes he did face more att bowlers and for most of his career managed a really bad back condition however he was a step below cook as an England opener He never managed a ton against McGrath and warne

 

[PakLFC]

Athers for me. A great opener solid as a rock. Slow and boring to watch he was but faced a better attack compared to Cooky.

 

[MMHS]

Cook is very good Test opener, but I'll pick Athers marginally. Stats apart, Athers had a better defense and he was quite gritty when fit. His battle with Donald is one of great memories or cricket for me. His 188* @J'burg was Hanifisque rear guard. And, obviously, being debuted in 1989, Athers was miles ahead of Cook when it comes to play spin - no comparison there.

Cook is easily better ODI batsman, which tells more about Athers as ODI opener.

 

[Ab Fan]

Cook is very good Test opener, but I'll pick Athers marginally. Stats apart, Athers had a better defense and he was quite gritty when fit. His battle with Donald is one of great memories or cricket for me. His 188* @J'burg was Hanifisque rear guard. <B>And, obviously, being debuted in 1989, Athers was miles ahead of Cook when it comes to play spin - no comparison there.</B>

Cook is easily better ODI batsman, which tells more about Athers as ODI opener.

How can you say that?? I mean his numbers are very poor in India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan.So, must be some basis for this conclusion.

 

[Robert]

Merci beaucoup ! It's a super drive (or one of Stewart's glorious pulls off one leg) down memory lane, absolutely marvellous that you have dug up this post.

I also will never forget his century in his 100th test at Old Trafford, the ovation he got still gives me goosebumps when I view it on youtube https://youtu.be/pbVGqEiaiWM?t=8m40s. Sadly, I don't think you will ever see an ovation like that on an English cricket ground again.

There were several other innings he played that I recall with great fondness (the twin centuries in Barbados in '94, 164 vs South Africa to save the test at Old Trafford in '98, a century during the Boxing Day test in '98). I don't think I've ever felt as much anticipation watching cricket as the moment when Stewart used to walk to the crease during the 1990s.

That is marvellous to watch!

England had something really special in Stewart and they messed him up by making him keep wicket. They sacrificed a great strength - his ability to hit fast test hundreds against excellent pace - in order to shore up a dodgy lower order.

 

[James]

Cook.

Atherton on his day was a wall, but he seems to be a bit overhyped due to a) one signature innings in South Africa, b) being a 90s player and c) Allan Donald swearing at him after bowling at his head.

 

[Zaz]

That is marvellous to watch!

England had something really special in Stewart and they messed him up by making him keep wicket. They sacrificed a great strength - his ability to hit fast test hundreds against excellent pace - in order to shore up a dodgy lower order.

True Stewart would surely have averaged 5 points higher had he not had to burden himself with the keeping duties

Stewie was a very classy freeflowing player and a treat to watch against genuine pace

 

[Hasan123]

Love Atherton but I'll take Cook.

 

[adzzy786]

I really doubt at any stage of his career any opposition was worried about Atherton taking the game away. Cook has won England games and has been fairly consistent. I am a fan of Athers loved watching him vs McGrath but I’d pick Cook hands down.

 

[Ab Fan]

I really doubt at any stage of his career any opposition was worried about Atherton taking the game away. Cook has won England games and has been fairly consistent. I am a fan of Athers loved watching him vs McGrath but I’d pick Cook hands down.

McGrath dominated Athers the way not many have done it in world cricket.

 

[Sherlock]

Let me just say Atherton played when the likes of Ambrose/Walsh, Waqar/Wasim and MaGrath/Warne were at their peaks...

Some players are just lucky to be playing in a deserted quality bowling generation.

 

[MMHS]

How can you say that?? I mean his numbers are very poor in India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan.So, must be some basis for this conclusion.

Overall spin playing quality has decreased a lot this era, which makes average spinners look ATG. As I said many times (can't prove, so don't catch me on that) - 3 WKs of 90s - Mongia, Moin & Kalu would be among top 10 spin players this time. Athers has hundred against in PAK (2001) against spinners. Put current batsmen on dry wicket (not turners, just dry), against Warne, Murali, Saq, Kumble, Mushi or Bhajji , even Tufnell......

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I'd go with cook

 

[Stumper]

Atherton for me as well, cook seems like roasting on average bowlers.

 

[Varun]

One might be better than the other (I'll go for Cook personally), but England should turn it on and have a batsman break the cricketing sound barrier and average 50+ over the course of his career instead of a downhill slide over time - Root seems to be the latest casualty on this front.

The rest of the world produces Sachin, Kallis, Lara, Ponting, etc.

England produce Atherton and Cook.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I hope that cook goes on to score big on day 4

 

[ManFan]

Athers gets a bad rep due to being a bunny of several ATG bowlers...

McGrath (19 times)
Ambrose (17 times)
Walsh (17 times)
Warne (10 times)

but he has ten times the concentration, toughness, and fortitude than Cook has shown so far.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Cook really on the decline atm. Not much gas left in the tank it seems