ikky47
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In light of Yasir’s recent performance. Who is Pakistan’s best ever test spinner?
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Who is Pakistan’s best ever Test spinner?
- Thread starter ikky47
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JaDed
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Saqlain when he came to the scene was great to watch but Yasirs' England's performance stood out a lot.
Hopefully Saeed Ajmal is not mentioned here.
Hopefully Saeed Ajmal is not mentioned here.
Smbhayi
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So far it's Kaneria
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Yasir is on his way to becoming the best. Mushtaq Ahmed is the best I've seen primarily because he won test matches away from home in Australia, England, New Zealand, and South Africa.
Madplayer
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Abdul qadir? Even though his stats are not that great , he bowled some match winning spells.
Saeed ajmal (till he was called , he was legal. Dont want to hear any b.s. which cant be proved)
Danish Kaneria (extremely talented, had everything that a leggie should have)
Saqlain Mushtaq was terrific till his knees gave in.
Mushtaq ahmad is another name.
Yasir shah is doing pretty well but i feel like isnt in the same league as the above.
Saeed ajmal (till he was called , he was legal. Dont want to hear any b.s. which cant be proved)
Danish Kaneria (extremely talented, had everything that a leggie should have)
Saqlain Mushtaq was terrific till his knees gave in.
Mushtaq ahmad is another name.
Yasir shah is doing pretty well but i feel like isnt in the same league as the above.
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Stewie
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Tie between Qadir and Saqi, I would say... Kaneria is immensely overrated!
Rana
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Saeed Ajmal pre ban/ unlucky unlike Murali.
He was a magician
He was a magician
Amjid Javed
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Mushy for me, between 1994 and 1998 he won pakistan a test in Australia (18 wickets in 2 tests), won us a test in new zealand, also in england and SA
Everyone harps on about SENA and how asian spinners tend to fail in these conditions but you look at Mushy`s contributions in those games in that time period and in games and he was a pure match winner greater then any other spinner weve had.
10 Matches in SENA - 61 Wickets @ 22.31 (Between 1994-1998)
Everyone harps on about SENA and how asian spinners tend to fail in these conditions but you look at Mushy`s contributions in those games in that time period and in games and he was a pure match winner greater then any other spinner weve had.
10 Matches in SENA - 61 Wickets @ 22.31 (Between 1994-1998)
RedwoodOriginal
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Abdul Qadir
I know Kaneria has the most wickets but he simply wasn't that good. I think he had started to improve before his ban and had he played for a few more years maybe he could have ended his career on a real high.
I know Kaneria has the most wickets but he simply wasn't that good. I think he had started to improve before his ban and had he played for a few more years maybe he could have ended his career on a real high.
Canford Cliffs
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Saqlain Mushtaq. He is also my favorite Pak cricketer of all time.
Abdullah Rabbani
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Saqlain Mushtaq And Saeed Ajmal They Are Beast Love To Watch
Abdul
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Yasir Shah.
rudra
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Havent seen qadir live. Being a lone quality spinner in 80s, his legacy may be bit of exaggeration. Stats dont lie.
Saqlain had insane peak but didnt last long enough. Sehwag multan knock was final nail on the coffin.
Kaneria was big turning leggie with equally potent googly. I think viru, dravid, sachin, laxman played him so well that we dont realise how good he was. Akmal jeopardised his career. Still yasir is better bcz he very accurate despite being leggie.
Mushy probably as good as kaneria. Chucker Ajmal is out of question.
So, yes Yasir is pakistan's best ever spinner IMO. Statistically also he will leave them far behind.
Saqlain had insane peak but didnt last long enough. Sehwag multan knock was final nail on the coffin.
Kaneria was big turning leggie with equally potent googly. I think viru, dravid, sachin, laxman played him so well that we dont realise how good he was. Akmal jeopardised his career. Still yasir is better bcz he very accurate despite being leggie.
Mushy probably as good as kaneria. Chucker Ajmal is out of question.
So, yes Yasir is pakistan's best ever spinner IMO. Statistically also he will leave them far behind.
Abdul Qadir.
Saqlain was exposed as mediocre as soon as Wasim Akram stopped playing - his follow-through had been creating rough for Saqlain to bowl into. Once he lost the rough he was a complete nobody with a dodgy doosra.
Mushtaq Ahmed only became a great after Pakistan had given up on him.
Kaneria was a nobody - he bloated his record against minnows just like Yasir Hameed.
Intikhab Alam was the perfect Number 10 leggie who could also bat a bit.
Mushtaq Mohammad was a terrific Number 5 and support spinner, a bit like Moeen Ali only a much better batsman.
Saqlain was exposed as mediocre as soon as Wasim Akram stopped playing - his follow-through had been creating rough for Saqlain to bowl into. Once he lost the rough he was a complete nobody with a dodgy doosra.
Mushtaq Ahmed only became a great after Pakistan had given up on him.
Kaneria was a nobody - he bloated his record against minnows just like Yasir Hameed.
Intikhab Alam was the perfect Number 10 leggie who could also bat a bit.
Mushtaq Mohammad was a terrific Number 5 and support spinner, a bit like Moeen Ali only a much better batsman.
Suleiman
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Kaneria is the most underrated for sure. Guy was hard done by for playing for a captain who had no idea how to use a leggie
Can’t comment on Yasir’s status tell he retires, always unfair to rank mid career unless you’re Kohli who has done it all p much in 2 formats.
Can’t comment on Yasir’s status tell he retires, always unfair to rank mid career unless you’re Kohli who has done it all p much in 2 formats.
Suleiman
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Also Ajmal is p overrated in tests. Had one overseas performance which stood out though when he was ripping through SA batting as they chased down somewhere around a 100 runs. A few more runs and who knows..
Syed1
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Kaneria is the most underrated for sure. Guy was hard done by for playing for a captain who had no idea how to use a leggie
Can’t comment on Yasir’s status tell he retires, always unfair to rank mid career unless you’re Kohli who has done it all p much in 2 formats.
It's spelled "pretty"
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Mushtaq Ahmed overseas. Saqlain was good overseas as well.
Yasir in UAE/home.
Yasir in UAE/home.
Suleiman
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I’m sure if you can work out the rest of the 5 letters, others definitely can.
Yasir is horrendous overseas.
Saqi, Mushi, Qadir were all very good, almost everywhere.
Yasir so far is a UAE-track bully, and if you're playing on such pitches, maybe he's a better choice. But certainly not the best Test spinner.
Saqi, Mushi, Qadir were all very good, almost everywhere.
Yasir so far is a UAE-track bully, and if you're playing on such pitches, maybe he's a better choice. But certainly not the best Test spinner.
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Mohammad Hafeez.
Abdullah Rabbani
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Why Indians have problem with ajmal he is one of greatest spinner,
His deliveries only illegal in that match where he banned so take control on your word's...
His deliveries only illegal in that match where he banned so take control on your word's...
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CricFan2012
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Rating Ajmal is like claiming Lance Armstrong was the best cyclist in the world 
topspin
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Tight one between Saqlain, Mushtaq and Qadir.
Mushtaq Ahmed has far better stats in SENA than Qadir, so he may have the strongest case of being Pakistan's best ever wrist spinner in that regard but Qadir did however revive a dying art of the game.
Having said to much surprise I find Mushtaq's stats in Asia are among the worst of the notable Pakistani spinners where he averages well over 30 there. Would be interested to know from those who followed cricket extensively in the 90s as to why his bowling stats in the SC are mediocre. Was it because SL and Indian batsmen in that era were superior players of wrist spin perhaps?
It is a tough call between these 3 and one should not forget Qadir did stand the test of time having played 67 tests. Although Kaneria had an awesome disguised googly, he was too slow in the air to succeed in all conditions. His record in NZ and SA are pretty good, in particular with the latter where he averaged 26.
Contrast to Kaneria, Yasir is quick through the air but lacks the mystery and the turn that Kaneria used to get, so for me until he improves his record in SENA he is not even a close candidate for being the Pak's best spinner of all time. Although he was bowled to the ground and was given atrocious fields by Misbah, one cannot overlook how badly he struggled in that tour of Australia.
It is for the same reason why I wouldn't pick him for the upcoming tour in SA because he lacks control and when you're not a big turner of your stock leg break, the outcome on non-turning wickets is simply going to be a poor one. Yasir Shah has been a find for Pakistan but has more limitations than the likes Qadir, Mushtaq and Kaneria who all possessed mystery elements in their bowling arsenal.
If it wasn't for Saqlain's knee injuries imo he would have ended up as the 3rd best spinner of all time after Warne and Murali. He was an amazing finger spinner who had the prodigious turn of a wrist spinner and the accuracy of a good defensive offie, so for me he would be the first pick to occupy the spin bowling option(s) in an ATG Pakistan XI.
Mushtaq Ahmed has far better stats in SENA than Qadir, so he may have the strongest case of being Pakistan's best ever wrist spinner in that regard but Qadir did however revive a dying art of the game.
Having said to much surprise I find Mushtaq's stats in Asia are among the worst of the notable Pakistani spinners where he averages well over 30 there. Would be interested to know from those who followed cricket extensively in the 90s as to why his bowling stats in the SC are mediocre. Was it because SL and Indian batsmen in that era were superior players of wrist spin perhaps?
It is a tough call between these 3 and one should not forget Qadir did stand the test of time having played 67 tests. Although Kaneria had an awesome disguised googly, he was too slow in the air to succeed in all conditions. His record in NZ and SA are pretty good, in particular with the latter where he averaged 26.
Contrast to Kaneria, Yasir is quick through the air but lacks the mystery and the turn that Kaneria used to get, so for me until he improves his record in SENA he is not even a close candidate for being the Pak's best spinner of all time. Although he was bowled to the ground and was given atrocious fields by Misbah, one cannot overlook how badly he struggled in that tour of Australia.
It is for the same reason why I wouldn't pick him for the upcoming tour in SA because he lacks control and when you're not a big turner of your stock leg break, the outcome on non-turning wickets is simply going to be a poor one. Yasir Shah has been a find for Pakistan but has more limitations than the likes Qadir, Mushtaq and Kaneria who all possessed mystery elements in their bowling arsenal.
If it wasn't for Saqlain's knee injuries imo he would have ended up as the 3rd best spinner of all time after Warne and Murali. He was an amazing finger spinner who had the prodigious turn of a wrist spinner and the accuracy of a good defensive offie, so for me he would be the first pick to occupy the spin bowling option(s) in an ATG Pakistan XI.
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topspin
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The full sleeved chucker does not deserve a mention here. Stop bringing cheats into this discussion.
ShahidDar08
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Tests: Yasir Shah (Pathetic in ODI's & T20's)
Overall: Saeed Ajmal (Best bowler in all formats)
Overall: Saeed Ajmal (Best bowler in all formats)
ShahidDar08
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Mushy possessed two great deliveries, the conventional leg-break and the wrong-un, but like all wrist-spinners, sauf Warne, had the tendency to bowl one bad ball per over. He also tended to do better on wickets with more pace and bounce, rather than the dead and dry wickets of the sub-continent. The primary reason was that batsmen could afford to play him off the pitch as opposed to needing to read him off the hand on quicker wickets.
I feel he is terribly underrated by Pakistanis in general, as shown by the posts in here advocating someone like Kaneria being a better bowler. Kaneria was perhaps more accurate than Mushy but didn't have the ability to bamboozle batsmen through sheer variety. It's something Mushy had in common with Qadir, but Qadir invariably went missing abroad. Those who have seen Mushy win test matches on his own away from home will never forget it.
I think a few different points are being discussed here
Variations don’t mean anything unless they produce wickets. Qadir is the best with variations but Yasir with fewer variations is far more economical and effective. Yasir trumps it.
Attack combination: qadir, saqlain and Mushtaq played with great attacks and keepers.. Kaneria with very modest attack and keeper and Yasir with complete tripe. Yasir trumps it. With wasim,waqar Shohaib, imran in the team it’s impossible to not take wickets. Only Kaneria is so bad that with amir and asif at their peak he couldn’t buy a wicket.
Drs: qadir and mushy would be sitting on 400 wickets if drs was around. Yasir trumps it
Potential: there’s nothing the past spinners can do for their record but now we can see a top spinner from Yasir and good drift he has the potential to be the best wicket taking spinner Pakistan have produced. He’s shown to all the sceptics that control and accuracy with limited variations and without exaggerated turn is enough to keep it tight and get wickets.
Absolutely loving watching Pakistan play right now.
Variations don’t mean anything unless they produce wickets. Qadir is the best with variations but Yasir with fewer variations is far more economical and effective. Yasir trumps it.
Attack combination: qadir, saqlain and Mushtaq played with great attacks and keepers.. Kaneria with very modest attack and keeper and Yasir with complete tripe. Yasir trumps it. With wasim,waqar Shohaib, imran in the team it’s impossible to not take wickets. Only Kaneria is so bad that with amir and asif at their peak he couldn’t buy a wicket.
Drs: qadir and mushy would be sitting on 400 wickets if drs was around. Yasir trumps it
Potential: there’s nothing the past spinners can do for their record but now we can see a top spinner from Yasir and good drift he has the potential to be the best wicket taking spinner Pakistan have produced. He’s shown to all the sceptics that control and accuracy with limited variations and without exaggerated turn is enough to keep it tight and get wickets.
Absolutely loving watching Pakistan play right now.
as-95
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Saeed Ajmal. All time great ODI player and a borderline ATG in Tests despite the smaller sample size of test matches played. Was unlucky to be banned despite previously having his action cleared!
as-95
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If Ajmal cheated, so did Murali. Ajmal was cleared on his first chucking test but corruption and a new system caused him to. Get banned the second time.
ATG spinner and nothing can disprove that.
topspin
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Thanks and that makes sense. Nathan Lyon is another bowler who thrives on bouncy wickets rather than the dead slow tracks such as UAE have to offer.
Kaneria is certainly not better than Mushy and indeed one should not forget the latter's memorable series in England and SA during the 90s. He could win a match win on his own.
A friend of mine who once played for Middlesex academy met Mushy in a Pakistani restaurant in London and asked him why wasn't he given more chances - given his prolific form for Sussex during the early 2000s. His response was "Inzy's a politician".
topspin
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Can you name me any ex-player or cricketing analyst outside Pakistan who has called him an ATG? Alternatively a list of best all time spinners would also be suffice to meet the ATG tag as well.
jeetu
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Pakistan's spinners in SENAW countries (Min 10 Wickets)
[table=width: 600, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Abdur Rehman [/td][td]2011-2011 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]24.3 [/td][td]2.18 [/td][td]66.8 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Hafeez [/td][td]2006-2016 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]25.28 [/td][td]2.69 [/td][td]56.3 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushtaq Mohammad [/td][td]1962-1979 [/td][td]32 [/td][td]51 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]2.62 [/td][td]59.3 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wasim Raja [/td][td]1973-1985 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]28.23 [/td][td]2.81 [/td][td]60.1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saeed Ajmal [/td][td]2009-2013 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]29.63 [/td][td]2.62 [/td][td]67.6 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushtaq Ahmed [/td][td]1990-2001 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]93 [/td][td]29.84 [/td][td]2.78 [/td][td]64.2 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pervez Sajjad [/td][td]1965-1973 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]31.42 [/td][td]2.28 [/td][td]82.5 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Iqbal Qasim [/td][td]1976-1985 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]33.32 [/td][td]2.55 [/td][td]78.1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saqlain Mushtaq [/td][td]1995-2003 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]35.52 [/td][td]2.59 [/td][td]82.1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Danish Kaneria [/td][td]2003-2010 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]86 [/td][td]37.87 [/td][td]3.19 [/td][td]71.1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Yasir Shah [/td][td]2016-2017 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]39.53 [/td][td]3.49 [/td][td]67.8 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Intikhab Alam [/td][td]1962-1977 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]49 [/td][td]43.06 [/td][td]2.85 [/td][td]90.5 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Abdul Qadir [/td][td]1982-1989 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]46.43 [/td][td]2.88 [/td][td]96.5 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shahid Afridi [/td][td]2005-2010 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]3.67 [/td][td]85 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tauseef Ahmed [/td][td]1987-1990 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]53.63 [/td][td]2.25 [/td][td]142.4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
[table=width: 600, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Abdur Rehman [/td][td]2011-2011 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]24.3 [/td][td]2.18 [/td][td]66.8 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Hafeez [/td][td]2006-2016 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]25.28 [/td][td]2.69 [/td][td]56.3 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushtaq Mohammad [/td][td]1962-1979 [/td][td]32 [/td][td]51 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]2.62 [/td][td]59.3 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wasim Raja [/td][td]1973-1985 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]28.23 [/td][td]2.81 [/td][td]60.1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saeed Ajmal [/td][td]2009-2013 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]29.63 [/td][td]2.62 [/td][td]67.6 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushtaq Ahmed [/td][td]1990-2001 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]93 [/td][td]29.84 [/td][td]2.78 [/td][td]64.2 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pervez Sajjad [/td][td]1965-1973 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]31.42 [/td][td]2.28 [/td][td]82.5 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Iqbal Qasim [/td][td]1976-1985 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]33.32 [/td][td]2.55 [/td][td]78.1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saqlain Mushtaq [/td][td]1995-2003 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]35.52 [/td][td]2.59 [/td][td]82.1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Danish Kaneria [/td][td]2003-2010 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]86 [/td][td]37.87 [/td][td]3.19 [/td][td]71.1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Yasir Shah [/td][td]2016-2017 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]39.53 [/td][td]3.49 [/td][td]67.8 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Intikhab Alam [/td][td]1962-1977 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]49 [/td][td]43.06 [/td][td]2.85 [/td][td]90.5 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Abdul Qadir [/td][td]1982-1989 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]46.43 [/td][td]2.88 [/td][td]96.5 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shahid Afridi [/td][td]2005-2010 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]3.67 [/td][td]85 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tauseef Ahmed [/td][td]1987-1990 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]53.63 [/td][td]2.25 [/td][td]142.4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
RyanRyan10
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how good was Iqbal Qasim
Stats look impressive
Can any senior poster enlighten us about him?
Stats look impressive
Can any senior poster enlighten us about him?
BreadPakoda
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Yasir Shah averages 40 in SENAW? You gotta be kidding me. I'd say Mushy was unlucky to bowl in an era where almost every team had good players of spin. He would have eaten today's SENAWB batsmen alive.
ikky47
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Yasir had a horrific tour down under in 2016/2017 with his average in the Aus series being 84..
Stewie
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- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,917
I am tired AF with this term SENAW..
I am going to invent a new one. NSCC..
Non-subcontinental countries!!
I am going to invent a new one. NSCC..
Non-subcontinental countries!!
To be fair mushy’s days were numbered after the 2000 England series in Pakistan where he was handled with ease plus an India series somewhere around then. Kaneria was talked about as the next warne as early as 2000...I think he ran through the English touring side then plus had awesome figures on debut a couple years later against Bangladesh. You have to say mushy was rightly dropped. of course being a county giant doesn’t automatically mean international success, just ask hick and ramprakash. Kaneria’s own demise many years later doesn’t mean selectors were wrong to prematurely discard mushy. But you are right mushy at his peak was way better than Kaneria, infact it’s often not even mentioned that he was the one to get the breakthroughs in 1992 and 96 in England to open the doors for the W’s.
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,917
Mushy’s career ended prematurely due to back problems, i refuse to accept kaneria was a better spinner at that time or even after.. he was just the only option for us at the time. Qadir, mushy and yasser and id say even afridi were miles ahead of kaneria..
gazza619
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2012
- Runs
- 13,628
I dont know how the career averages compare of our great spinners but I would take Saqlain Mushtaq at his full peak. When full fit he used to sprint like a fast bowler and bowl those amazing deliveries. Almost took a hattrick in Australia if it wasnt for the blind third umpire.
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