Who is Pakistan's most vital bowler in limited overs internationals?

[idrizzy]

This includes both ODIs and T20s. We have a handful of key players and in a way they are all vital, but which is the most vital?

Would you say Amir's control, swing and economical bowling which more often than not brings a wicket within the first few overs?

Junaid Khan's aggressive bowling, troubling batsmen with his swing?

Hasan Ali's explosiveness which brings the innings to life in the middle stages of the game?

Imad's control, handling the middle overs with ease?

Shadab's mystery and his confidence to get wickets when the ball is in his hands?

There are a few outside choices like Raees, Tanvir even Wahab (as it's T20s also).

Who do you think?

 

[htariq25]

Maddy

 

[Hasan123]

Hasan Ali. Whenever Pakistan need a wicket he stands up. Also bowls really well in the middle overs. So I'll go with Hasan Ali.

 

[Rayyman]

Mohammad Amir is Pakistan's best bowler

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Without a shadow of a doubt, Hassan Ali.

The guy was an integral part to our CT win. Leading wicket taker in the tournament.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Tough call between Aamir and Hassan Ali but I went with Aamir. He sets the tone of the game with very tight bowling. Batsmen give him a lot of respect and the pressure he builds up helps someone like Hassan Ali in the middle of the innings. For me to consider Hassan Ali the best I still need to see more performances from him. Its too early to say he is most vital bowler in the attack.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Hasan Ali.

 

[Justcrazy]

Hassan Ali at the moment , because he is getting wickets in Middle overs , it makes Pakistan bowling really formidable.

 

[King-Misbah]

Mohammed Amir as he is a big game player and also bowls tight to create pressure for other bowlers. It's a bit like Mcgrath use to create pressure and Warne use to take more wickets.

 

[MMHS]

Surprised to see 26 vs 12 votes in favor of Hasan Ali. If it's based on the number of wickets or recent performance, then this thread shouldn't exist, because the answer is obvious - Hasan is the MoS of CT, while ICC pundits didn't even put Amir in tournament XI, in that regard JK should get higher votes.

But, I think the question is "who is more vital in ODI Cricket", not "who was instrumental in CT win". In that regard, Amir is actually most important player in the team.

Recent trend (actually always had been the case, since early 90s), in ODI is that teams put their best 3 batsmen at 1, 2 & 3. Or at most top 3 in 1-4; apart from PAK of course, who used to send Azhar, Shehzad & MoHa in 1-2-3 in recent past to protect the middle order against non existent swing of white ball. And, these are players who scores fast & scores big, means if they are set, they often play match winning innings. If I go by name, it's like Finch, Warner, Smith; Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli; Guptil, Latham, Will; Kok, Amla, FaF; Roy, Halles, Root; Tamim, Soumya, Sabbir .....

The strategy of modern ODI should be to knock early wickets, so that teams can be hit where it hurts most - top 3. This is where I believe Amir has the most critical role. In recent times, Hasan has taken bagful of wickets, but 2 matches (in CT) that he won MoM, damage was done in early stages - he finished the job. He took couple of 5fors against AUS & ENG (?) as well, but that didn't restrict teams to a manageable target. I don't think, if PAK's new ball bowlers strike in 1st PP, wickets at middle over is enough.

Ideally, PAK needs a new ball partner (could be JK, could be a better user of new ball) of Amir to make Hasan more effective - if he comes to bowl at 60/2 after 15, almost every time, batting side won't finish playing 50 overs.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Surprised to see 26 vs 12 votes in favor of Hasan Ali. If it's based on the number of wickets or recent performance, then this thread shouldn't exist, because the answer is obvious - Hasan is the MoS of CT, while ICC pundits didn't even put Amir in tournament XI, in that regard JK should get higher votes.

But, I think the question is "who is more vital in ODI Cricket", not "who was instrumental in CT win". In that regard, Amir is actually most important player in the team.

Recent trend (actually always had been the case, since early 90s), in ODI is that teams put their best 3 batsmen at 1, 2 & 3. Or at most top 3 in 1-4; apart from PAK of course, who used to send Azhar, Shehzad & MoHa in 1-2-3 in recent past to protect the middle order against non existent swing of white ball. And, these are players who scores fast & scores big, means if they are set, they often play match winning innings. If I go by name, it's like Finch, Warner, Smith; Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli; Guptil, Latham, Will; Kok, Amla, FaF; Roy, Halles, Root; Tamim, Soumya, Sabbir .....

The strategy of modern ODI should be to knock early wickets, so that teams can be hit where it hurts most - top 3. This is where I believe Amir has the most critical role. In recent times, Hasan has taken bagful of wickets, but 2 matches (in CT) that he won MoM, damage was done in early stages - he finished the job. He took couple of 5fors against AUS & ENG (?) as well, but that didn't restrict teams to a manageable target. I don't think, if PAK's new ball bowlers strike in 1st PP, wickets at middle over is enough.

Ideally, PAK needs a new ball partner (could be JK, could be a better user of new ball) of Amir to make Hasan more effective - if he comes to bowl at 60/2 after 15, almost every time, batting side won't finish playing 50 overs.

Well said (Like always )

If fit, it is a very scary bowling line-up. Someone like Stokes played 11 overs and was unable to score a boundary.

But then Indian PPers say Lil Bambi ) Kumar and co. are better than this bowling unit.

If these three (Amir/JK/Hasan) were playing against Pak top order, I'd be genuinely scared for our chances.

 

[New Yorker]

Hasan by a mile. Amir and Junaid tied for second. Amir has been a consummate big match player for Pakistan, which is to say, he delivers in the finale. But Hasan (and junaid) is who got us to the finale, and unlike Amir he has been consistently incisive since his debut. Whatever advantage he takes from Amir keeping the pressure on up front accrued no less to Wahab and Rahat. The question left unasked is what advantage does Amir get from bowling with Hasan? To take wickets you still have to be a good bowler. And Hasan was MoS in the Champions Trophy for a reason. His record to date is in the league of Starc and the early Fizz.

 

[New Yorker]

Surprised to see 26 vs 12 votes in favor of Hasan Ali. If it's based on the number of wickets or recent performance, then this thread shouldn't exist, because the answer is obvious - Hasan is the MoS of CT, while ICC pundits didn't even put Amir in tournament XI, in that regard JK should get higher votes.

But, I think the question is "who is more vital in ODI Cricket", not "who was instrumental in CT win". In that regard, Amir is actually most important player in the team.

Recent trend (actually always had been the case, since early 90s), in ODI is that teams put their best 3 batsmen at 1, 2 & 3. Or at most top 3 in 1-4; apart from PAK of course, who used to send Azhar, Shehzad & MoHa in 1-2-3 in recent past to protect the middle order against non existent swing of white ball. And, these are players who scores fast & scores big, means if they are set, they often play match winning innings. If I go by name, it's like Finch, Warner, Smith; Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli; Guptil, Latham, Will; Kok, Amla, FaF; Roy, Halles, Root; Tamim, Soumya, Sabbir .....

The strategy of modern ODI should be to knock early wickets, so that teams can be hit where it hurts most - top 3. This is where I believe Amir has the most critical role. In recent times, Hasan has taken bagful of wickets, but 2 matches (in CT) that he won MoM, damage was done in early stages - he finished the job. He took couple of 5fors against AUS & ENG (?) as well, but that didn't restrict teams to a manageable target. I don't think, if PAK's new ball bowlers strike in 1st PP, wickets at middle over is enough.

Ideally, PAK needs a new ball partner (could be JK, could be a better user of new ball) of Amir to make Hasan more effective - if he comes to bowl at 60/2 after 15, almost every time, batting side won't finish playing 50 overs.

Certainly the role of an opening bowler is important. But it is simply a fact that apart from the CT final - no small exception surely - Junaid has since his return been doing that job better than Amir. It wasn't Amir who made the early breakthroughs in the game against South Africa, in which Hasan won the MoM. It was the spinners. Nor did Amir make early incision in the Sri Lanka game, where he finally got among the wickets. He came in with the ball wearing and bowled no better then than Junaid. You might argue that Hasan's 5 fer against Australia failed to swing the match, but that is because no other bowlers stepped up to the plate, including Amir, who took only one wicket in that game. All that a bowler can do in his 10 overs is to take wickets and Hasan has been doing that for Pakistan better than anyone since Saeed Ajmal.

 

[MMHS]

Certainly the role of an opening bowler is important. But it is simply a fact that apart from the CT final - no small exception surely - Junaid has since his return been doing that job better than Amir. It wasn't Amir who made the early breakthroughs in the game against South Africa, in which Hasan won the MoM. It was the spinners. Nor did Amir make early incision in the Sri Lanka game, where he finally got among the wickets. He came in with the ball wearing and bowled no better then than Junaid. You might argue that Hasan's 5 fer against Australia failed to swing the match, but that is because no other bowlers stepped up to the plate, including Amir, who took only one wicket in that game. All that a bowler can do in his 10 overs is to take wickets and Hasan has been doing that for Pakistan better than anyone since Saeed Ajmal.

My first disclaimer was that - this post isn't a postmortem of CT win. Hasan is obviously doing better than what he was expected (hence MoS), but here, I don't think we are discussing who had been the best bowler in CT or in last few months. Don't go by the numbers or recent past only, rather look it from a strategic point - what is the role of every individual in a team, and how critical that role is. In that regard, Amir's role is most vital - now, he might fail to deliver, which'll result in decline of PAK team's performance.

Most of you are making a common mistake of looking at the event which has concluded & trying fit that into a strategy. I put it other way - take 2 bowlers for a 24 month's period & think whose failure will hurt PAK most -
1. Is it Amir, that every time, batting team is reaching 100/0 in 20 overs (from my list 2 set openers with the No. 3 waiting) or
2. Is it Hasan, that every time, he is expected to make that 100/0 to 120/3 in 25 overs?

It's not about who is better or who is doing better - PAK won 1992 WC, without Waquar, because Aquib proficiently did what he was asked for - that's breaking opening partnership with new ball. Hasan is indeed taking lots of wickets, but think, what'll happen if Amir takes similar wickets at the start. In an ideal world, I would like to take 40/3 after 10th overs, than 3/10, after openers have posted 100 - hence the opening bowler's role is most vital. It's not about individuals - if Hasan starts to take new ball today (on merit - as of now, Amir is far better new ball bowler), he will be equally vital, actually more, because he can use old ball as well. Or other way, you can say that - the guy spear heading the attack with new ball is most vital - if it's even JK, so it be.