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Who is the best ever left-arm spinner in Tests ?

Abhilash93

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There are some obvious candidates, both historically and in recent times who I greatly admire.
But it is a subjective matter (Stats don't always tell the whole story). So, Whom do you personally rate as the best ever left arm spinner in Tests?
 
Hedley Verity, Bishen Bedi, Derek Underwood are the top 3 imo.

Among recent times, Herath easily the best.
 
I looked at the stats of the last 60 years and I must admit I had never heard of Iqbal Qasim. Apparently, he was a very parsimonious bowler.


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Herath by a country mile, especially considering the modern game and his success against SC teams.
 
Herath is the best Test spinner since Warne and Muralitharan by a mile. He was ahead of Ajmal even when he was chucking and now he has left him in his dust.

As far as all-time best left-arm spinner is concerned, Underwood and Bedi are the most iconic ones, but Herath will be remembered as a genuine great after his retirement as well.

Quite a shame that he was robbed of almost a decade of Test cricket thanks to the dodgy Muralitharan.
 
The best that I have ever seen was Bishan Bedi.

The greatest ever must have been Hedley Verity, just ahead of his forbear Wilfred Rhodes. One of my lifelong ambitions is to go to Caserta to where Verity fell to pay homage to him and his sacrifice. James Holland did just that for Cricinfo a couple of years ago.

I'm a Lancashire lad, but my respect for Verity knows no bounds. My grandfather was born the same year as him, also in the West Riding of Yorkshire. But he got to live 35 more years.
 
How close to/far below Herath do you rate Graeme Swann?

Swann was the best Test spinner post-Warne/Muralitharan up till 2011-2012, but Herath in the last 2-3 years has been outstanding. Swann had a pretty average last 2-odd years.

Herath will probably go out on a high, he keeps getting better and better.
 
Swann was the best Test spinner post-Warne/Muralitharan up till 2011-2012, but Herath in the last 2-3 years has been outstanding. Swann had a pretty average last 2-odd years.

Herath will probably go out on a high, he keeps getting better and better.
I agree that Herath is a wonderful bowler who has been robbed of the records he deserves by a cheating, chucking compatriot.

But you should have seen Bedi! He had the flight and tricky changes of angle of Herath, but he also had this astonishing late dip which left batsmen fishing for the pitch of the ball. He was amazing!
 
I agree that Herath is a wonderful bowler who has been robbed of the records he deserves by a cheating, chucking compatriot.

But you should have seen Bedi! He had the flight and tricky changes of angle of Herath, but he also had this astonishing late dip which left batsmen fishing for the pitch of the ball. He was amazing!

Read a lot about that. Wish I could have seen him bowl.

Did you watch Chandra and Prasanna too?
 
Bedi vs Barry Richards in county cricket was a gripping contest. Apparently how Bedi foxed him is now a part of folklore.
 
History of Slow Left-arm Orthodox (SLAO) spin is probably the oldest in cricket along with batting & fast bowling. In fast 50 years of Test cricket, some of the greatest olden days' SLAO spinner played for ENG (Peate, Briggs, Peel, Blythe, Rhodes), of whom I have no idea or haven't ever seen any recording. Some of them must be outstanding with their control at least, because despite low scoring matches those days, an average under 20 & economy of 2 is outstanding.

In last 100 years (after WW 1), I think the best 3 had been Verity, Underwood & Bedi. Valentine, Qasim, Herath, Wardle (he could bowl both variants of orthodox & chinaman) & Lock (alleged with a bit dodgy action, haven't seen though) must have been very good. For a good few years, Manainder & Dulip Doshi were very good, but I guess due to lack of variation, they din't survive longer, just like A Rehman.

Underwood has one of the best averages among modern spinners (of all variants), because of his outstanding economy BUT, he was extremely condition dependent bowler, on wet or drying wickets, it was near impossible to score offr Derek, but I don't hink he was that effective on good, firm wickets or in 1st 3 days of a Test. BS Bedi was probably the most classical of the SLAO spinners - with his flight, loop & armer, even on best of wickets Bedi was outstanding. Zaheer & Javed dented Bedi's career big time in his last few years, otherwise he would have finished with a career average close to Underwood. I think, among all spinners, Bedi & Qadir troubled Viv the most. Verity was probably a mixture of BS Bedi & D Underwood - an almost unplayable bowler on "sticky-dog", but equally effective on good wickets. He passed away, probably at 38 & played his last Test 3 years back - those were days when spinners easily played FC till their late 40s & Test till early 40s. Had WW II not robbed his best 4/5 years; I think Verity would have finished as the then highest wicket-taker in Test (Before Trueman, Grimmet with 236 was probably the record holder).

In modern days, Herath actually showed what he could have done had he not been sub-pressed by the presence of Murali; however, I am a bit reserved on Hereth because of his superman efforts against PAK, who oblate had been a real bunny of SLAO spin & their dumb, incompetent, clueless & retard selectors fed Herath with 11 right-handers to target a spot whole day long, years after years (I don't think they noticed that 2 of the top scores 236 & 168 against Herath were by Taufique Umar & Fawad Alam). Panesar had a great start, but he is probably the bowler version of KP - self destructive & a management headache, otherwise could have broken Underwood's English record.

There was one more guy - probably one of the best ever cricketers never to play Test Cricket. For almost 3 decades, Rajinder Goel was the top spinner in Indian domestic circuits, but he was never picked over Bedi. Unfortunately, both born on same time (probably same year) & Bedi made the early reputation on his debut, never allowed Goel to dislodge him. Indian selectors often played 2 off-spinners together, but never tried to SLAO together in 20 years & Bedi had his own strong lobby (once he was dropped on disciplinary grounds, but selectors deliberately made Goel 12th man, so that his performance doesn't make it difficult for Bedi's return). I think, Goel had better FC stats for most seasons over Bedi, but Bedi was preferred for his variations - on under-prepared track, I don't think had ever been a better spinner than Goel - he could hit a coin on good-lenth spot whole day with his accuracy.

If I am to rank, I probably 'll go with Bedi, Verity, Underwood & Herath in that rank.
 
Herath is the best Test spinner since Warne and Muralitharan by a mile. He was ahead of Ajmal even when he was chucking and now he has left him in his dust.

As far as all-time best left-arm spinner is concerned, Underwood and Bedi are the most iconic ones, but Herath will be remembered as a genuine great after his retirement as well.

Quite a shame that he was robbed of almost a decade of Test cricket thanks to the dodgy Muralitharan.

For a doctor, u should be ashamed at not understanding kineasthetics. Murali, with his double jointed wrist was anything but dodgy
 
History of Slow Left-arm Orthodox (SLAO) spin is probably the oldest in cricket along with batting & fast bowling. In fast 50 years of Test cricket, some of the greatest olden days' SLAO spinner played for ENG (Peate, Briggs, Peel, Blythe, Rhodes), of whom I have no idea or haven't ever seen any recording. Some of them must be outstanding with their control at least, because despite low scoring matches those days, an average under 20 & economy of 2 is outstanding.

In last 100 years (after WW 1), I think the best 3 had been Verity, Underwood & Bedi. Valentine, Qasim, Herath, Wardle (he could bowl both variants of orthodox & chinaman) & Lock (alleged with a bit dodgy action, haven't seen though) must have been very good. For a good few years, Manainder & Dulip Doshi were very good, but I guess due to lack of variation, they din't survive longer, just like A Rehman.

Underwood has one of the best averages among modern spinners (of all variants), because of his outstanding economy BUT, he was extremely condition dependent bowler, on wet or drying wickets, it was near impossible to score offr Derek, but I don't hink he was that effective on good, firm wickets or in 1st 3 days of a Test. BS Bedi was probably the most classical of the SLAO spinners - with his flight, loop & armer, even on best of wickets Bedi was outstanding. Zaheer & Javed dented Bedi's career big time in his last few years, otherwise he would have finished with a career average close to Underwood. I think, among all spinners, Bedi & Qadir troubled Viv the most. Verity was probably a mixture of BS Bedi & D Underwood - an almost unplayable bowler on "sticky-dog", but equally effective on good wickets. He passed away, probably at 38 & played his last Test 3 years back - those were days when spinners easily played FC till their late 40s & Test till early 40s. Had WW II not robbed his best 4/5 years; I think Verity would have finished as the then highest wicket-taker in Test (Before Trueman, Grimmet with 236 was probably the record holder).

In modern days, Herath actually showed what he could have done had he not been sub-pressed by the presence of Murali; however, I am a bit reserved on Hereth because of his superman efforts against PAK, who oblate had been a real bunny of SLAO spin & their dumb, incompetent, clueless & retard selectors fed Herath with 11 right-handers to target a spot whole day long, years after years (I don't think they noticed that 2 of the top scores 236 & 168 against Herath were by Taufique Umar & Fawad Alam). Panesar had a great start, but he is probably the bowler version of KP - self destructive & a management headache, otherwise could have broken Underwood's English record.

There was one more guy - probably one of the best ever cricketers never to play Test Cricket. For almost 3 decades, Rajinder Goel was the top spinner in Indian domestic circuits, but he was never picked over Bedi. Unfortunately, both born on same time (probably same year) & Bedi made the early reputation on his debut, never allowed Goel to dislodge him. Indian selectors often played 2 off-spinners together, but never tried to SLAO together in 20 years & Bedi had his own strong lobby (once he was dropped on disciplinary grounds, but selectors deliberately made Goel 12th man, so that his performance doesn't make it difficult for Bedi's return). I think, Goel had better FC stats for most seasons over Bedi, but Bedi was preferred for his variations - on under-prepared track, I don't think had ever been a better spinner than Goel - he could hit a coin on good-lenth spot whole day with his accuracy.

If I am to rank, I probably 'll go with Bedi, Verity, Underwood & Herath in that rank.

Yes, Goel and Paddy were rather unlucky. Gavaskar rated both quite highly. I think he once said he prefers facing Bedi over Goel.

Paddy is now into coaching I think. Harmeet Singh is from his stable. Hopefully, he develops into something worthwhile 4-5 years down the line.
 
I am also fond of Daniel Vettori.

Very economical and accurate in both tests and ODI's
 
I don't get why people are saying Bedi when they've never seen him and he was a chucker.

"When you have seen Bishan Bedi twirl down his spinners after 60 overs with the same gentle rhythm as he settled into at the start of the spell, you understand why his is a great bowling action. A clockmaker would have been proud to set Bedi in motion - a mechanism finely balanced, cogs rolling silently and hands sweeping in smooth arcs across the face."
- Tony Lewis

"My idea of paradise is Lords in the sunshine, with Ray Lindwall bowling from one end and Bishan Bedi from the other"
- Jim Laker

I wouldn't mind if someone could chuck so elegantly :P
 
By the way, whoever thinks BS Bedi was a chucker doesn't understand the fundamentals of bowling action. "Bent arm isn't chucking" - a bowler can bowl with 45 degree bent, if in his last rotation of arm, he doesn't use the force of elbow (by straightening that). Bowling is a shoulder effort - darting is an elbow effort.

Bedi had the most classical & clean actions of all - even in his armers, he 'll bowl between Umpire & wicket to create an angle & a body twist, but never used his elbow to push the ball. I understand his grudge over "technical chuckers" - with his flight & loop, had he been allowed (or had he opted) to add few "darters" in between, BSB would have added another 100 wickets with his tally. In 1978, in WSC, some of his fastest armers were measured - 70-75KM, a bit of elbow, another 10-15KM & Bedi would have been as deadly as Warne's flipper or Qadir's googly.
 
I am also fond of Daniel Vettori.

Very economical and accurate in both tests and ODI's

It was a treat to watch him bowl this World Cup. Very difficult bowler to hit due to his accuracy and those subtle variations.
 
Iqbal Qasim is certainly among the top ones. He is very underrated. In Pakistan, we have a tendency to overrate the players with flair and ignore the disciplined ones.
 
Bishen Singh Bedi was a top class left arm spinner and highly respected by his peers as a cricketers. Although as a person he is controversial and a loud mouth.
 
Underwood played on wet pitches and was not a pure SLA apparently. Used to mix it up with dome medium pace. Not sure of this though.
 
Herath no doubt. When Sri Lanka had a toothless and useless attack, he was only one there to put his hand up and take 5 wicket hauls at will and be SL's strike bowler in the longest format. He'd come in and bowl 30 overs with ease.
 
On wet pitches Underwood was unplayable.

On Flat tracks Bedi was best. He could beat a batsman with flight .
 
Didn't Bradman say Verity is the best bowler he has ever faced? That's like the highest level of praise for any bowler

And Verity has pretty good record against Australia (his career coincided entirely with Bradman's)

Such a shame WW2 happened and he lost his life in war, we probably missed out a potential GOAT spinner.
 
Left arm spinners with 100+ away wickets
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Avg [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Underwood (ENG) [/td][td]1969-1982 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]152 [/td][td]27.36 [/td][td]2.09 [/td][td]78.2 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Vettori (ICC/NZ) [/td][td]1997-2012 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]201 [/td][td]32.29 [/td][td]2.56 [/td][td]75.4 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]B Bedi (INDIA) [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]129 [/td][td]33.72 [/td][td]2.37 [/td][td]85 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HMRKB Herath (SL) [/td][td]2004-2018 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]115 [/td][td]38.57 [/td][td]2.95 [/td][td]78.2 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
 
Left arm spinners with 100+ away wickets
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Avg [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Underwood (ENG) [/td][td]1969-1982 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]152 [/td][td]27.36 [/td][td]2.09 [/td][td]78.2 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Vettori (ICC/NZ) [/td][td]1997-2012 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]201 [/td][td]32.29 [/td][td]2.56 [/td][td]75.4 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]B Bedi (INDIA) [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]129 [/td][td]33.72 [/td][td]2.37 [/td][td]85 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HMRKB Herath (SL) [/td][td]2004-2018 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]115 [/td][td]38.57 [/td][td]2.95 [/td][td]78.2 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Vettori's record is surprisingly impressive.
 
Has to be Herath.

At times in SL he was close to unplayable.
 
Top 5:-

Hedley Verity
Derek Underwood
Bishan Singh Bedi
Rangana Herath
Daniel Vettori
 
I used to be scared as hell whenever we played SL in Asia and Herath was coming in to bowl.

He used to blow us away more often than not, and I remember his 9-for against us as if it was yesterday.

Those where the days when we used to have batsmen who were good against spin, such as Younis, Misbah, Shafiq, Sarfaraz, etc... and he still used to torment us.

A fantastic spinner whose career took of very late.
 
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