Who played a bigger role in the Pakistan vs India CT 2017 final - Fakhar Zaman or Mohammad Amir?

[Abdullah719]

One year on from that awesome day, who do you think played the biggest role in the team's win?

Would Pakistan have been able to defend a lower total without Fakhar Zaman's hundred?

Would Pakistan have been able to stop India from chasing the total without Mohammad Amir taking out the top 3 of Rohit/Dhawan/Kohli?

 

[shokz1408]

Would Pakistan have been able to defend a lower total without Fakhar Zaman's hundred?

Depends how low, could be 50/50 if we made between 250-275 runs.

Would Pakistan have been able to stop India from chasing the total without Mohammad Amir taking out the top 3 of Rohit/Dhawan/Kohli?

No. Assuming those guys stayed in for most of the innings, kohli would probably steer india to the win alongside dhoni or pandya.

We needed them both to win. One for sure we needed to bat the best we ever had to beat this strong Indian team, and if we couldn't get kohli's wicket then we couldn't win.

In terms of the most memorable part of that match, it will always be that kohli wicket, the game changer. But it was so, because the win was initially set up by Fakhars innings and the batsmen that followed him.

 

[shaz619]

Fakhar Zamans 100 without a doubt

 

[Asch Ali]

Both of them. But setting a big total was more important when playing against India. India has the ability to chase down 400. I think Fakhar Zaman’s total changed the mindset of Indian batsmen. Rohit, Virat, Shikhar all got OUT due to playing attacking shots. They were desperate to reach the target. So the wickets given to Amir were flukes

 

[Asch Ali]

People have forgotten that Fakhar’s hundred only got us to 220 odd. It was also the success of our lower order especially Hafeez that pushed us past 320. The big total scared the Indian batsmen and forced them to try to score quickly.

 

[Suleiman]

Zaman primarily. Had Bumrahs foot been a few inches back Pakistan would’ve done the same nonsense approach of conserving wickets instead of attacking after a wicket goes down and end the innings at 266-8 in 50 overs. Furthermore, Babar isn’t as mentally strong as he’s made out to be, and has some selfish tendencies, so say he came out within the first 5 overs after Zamans departure, he wouldn’t have made nearly as much of an impact as Fakhar esp with spinners having his number in ODIs, Ashwin no less, who Fakhar pounded, and could’ve potentially ended the spinner’s career after that but Kohli is a generous man and gives 2nd chances to litterers and bowlers alike.

 

[aloo paratha]

Zaman, he set it up. Had we scored 50-70 runs less than we did it's possible Mohammad Amir wouldn't have gotten as many wickets.

 

[GrandMaster]

Aamir from Pakistan and Boomrah from India.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

India has the ability to chase down 400.

uhmm.. no they don't. don't recall them chasing down 400 against a quality side in a long time

 

[Asch Ali]

uhmm.. no they don't. don't recall them chasing down 400 against a quality side in a long time

They have chashed 350 MULTIPLE times.

Just imagine, Pakistani batsmen scoring 330 on a pitch. Indian batsmen in theory, on normal day, would’ve done much more than that

 

[Buffet]

Game was won by putting 330 and rest was formality. PPers overrate Indian batting. No batting line up is likely to chase 330 in finals.

 

[giri26]

Fakhar was the major contributor. Amir bowled well but again if Pakistan were bowled out for 220 or 230, I don't see Amir bowling such a spell. So it has to be the hundred of Fakhar which set up the game from Pakistan. Amir just completed the job, if not for him someone else would have picked up those 3 wickets. India were already under pressure of the huge total.

 

[ipl_fan]

Jasprit Bumrah

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Fakhar. It has been ages since a Pakistani opener destroyed our bowlers so ruthlessly. I don't think we had a plan for him at all. Reminded me of Saeed Anwar destroying jumbo,Venky etc.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Jas 'no ball" Boomrah!

 

[Cozyrensetter]

The damn NO-BALL.Pakistan would have struggled with the run-rate and rest would have been repeat of Asia cup2016 or T20WC 2016.In both matches,Sharjeel got out early and Pak crumbled

 

[Pete Rose]

Azhar Ali

 

[Savage]

Top 3 Impactful performance

1 Fakhar Zaman

2 Azhar Ali

3 M Amir

We should not forget Azhar Ali was the main reason Pakistan got to really good start.He was the aggressor when Zaman was struggling initiallly and switched role when Zaman was in attacking mode later.Azhar never allowed India to get in the game from the start.Before he unluckily got run-out,He was the major contributor at that time and already 300+ score looked very likely.After that,Fakhar and hafeez helped Pakistan to score 330+.

 

[Slim]

People have forgotten that Fakhar’s hundred only got us to 220 odd. It was also the success of our lower order especially Hafeez that pushed us past 320. The big total scared the Indian batsmen and forced them to try to score quickly.

Yup, thats something many people miss out on. Hafeez's onslaught was instrumental in us reaching the mighty score. I remember how Kohli's face screamed impending defeat at the end of the Pakistani innings. I would say the match was won by the Pakistani batting and not bowling that day. Our bowling was always good, and the scoreboard pressure just destroyed any confidence that Indians had.

 

[Slim]

Have to say one thing - Ashwin is a lucky man. He was pounded ruthlessly by the Pakistani batsmen to oblivion. It could have been a career ending match.

 

[Asch Ali]

Yup, thats something many people miss out on. Hafeez's onslaught was instrumental in us reaching the mighty score. I remember how Kohli's face screamed impending defeat at the end of the Pakistani innings. I would say the match was won by the Pakistani batting and not bowling that day. Our bowling was always good, and the scoreboard pressure just destroyed any confidence that Indians had.

Had Hardik Pandya been dismissed earlier. It would’ve been been a record breaking 250+ run victory. Sad that we couldn’t make the record.

 

[LastManstanding]

Azhar Ali

I second that. Fakhar was looking out of touch in the beginning of his innings, it was Azhar Ali who kept playing at a fantastic strike rate and didnt let pressure get to his opening partner.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> a year ago, Pakistan's <a href="https://twitter.com/FakharZamanLive?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FakharZamanLive</a> scored his maiden ODI century and what a time to do it - the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CT17?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CT17</a> final! &#55357;&#56399;&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816;&#55356;&#57286; <a href="https://t.co/frLDPeMslS">pic.twitter.com/frLDPeMslS</a></p>— ICC (@ICC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ICC/status/1008605232132222981?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Oligochaetes]

I am more interested in seeing if Kohli will gift Amir anything before the world cup game..lol.

Last time Kohli gifted him a bat, Amir got him twice in two balls

 

[Mainul]

Fakhar Zaman ,no doubt.

 

[UN talkz]

Wahab Riaz and Ahmed Shahzad, their role was most crucial

 

[TeymurBlake]

I think the whole team played a part in us becoming Champions really. Everyone except Malik played a part with the bat in the final. Also most bowlers played a part in defending the total.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Fakhar Zaman,followed by Azhar and then Amir.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Wahab Riaz and Ahmed Shahzad, their role was most crucial

Don't forget

 

[nextover666666]

Hafeez that pushed us past 320. The big total scared the Indian batsmen and forced them to try to score quickly.[/QUOTE]
This people keep forgetting Hafeez played a big role their in fact most of the team played well but in regards to Zaman and Amir I think both equally played a big role as well

 

[Ahson8]

Fakhar.

 

[Ahson8]

Hafeez that pushed us past 320. The big total scared the Indian batsmen and forced them to try to score quickly.

This people keep forgetting Hafeez played a big role their in fact most of the team played well but in regards to Zaman and Amir I think both equally played a big role as well

Fakhar and Amir played the big roles, Azhar and Hafeez were the unsung heroes

Still think Hafeez should’ve retired after that game though

 

[Hasan123]

Fakhar is the one who took the game away from India. India were always unlikely to chase 339 .

 

[venomousx]

People keep forgetting that India has successfully chased 330something against us a few years ago in Asia Cup when Kohli scored around 180...Amir played the most crucial role ensuring that it didn't happen this time around.

 

[Kroll]

Zaman, scoring a century was a huge contributing factor and demoralized India before they came out to bat.

 

[Dingolfy]

Fakhar is the one who took the game away from India. India were always unlikely to chase 339 .

We have chased 350 couple of times against Australia and England in bilaterals.Not in Finals though. I beleive had we not lost any wicket/only Sharma in the first 15 with a good run rate, Kohli could have chased it.But then Amir bowled brilliantly to remove all the three.

 

[last_knight]

How people vote for Fakhar here is beyond me. Although he was MoM anyway.

Still, Centurion 2003 will tell us it was Amir who won the match. 270 odd was chased in 45 odd overs and match was effectively won inside 15 overs of Indian Innings.

Yes Fakhar was the MoM. I will give it to him for his role in earlier matches. But CT17-Final was an Amir-moment.

Anyone saying otherwise, revisit Centurion 2003 highlights please.

 

[iniqbal223]

It was a team effort!
More importantly catches were taken, except for 1

It was all over for India when Dhoni got out

 

[Dingolfy]

It was a team effort!
More importantly catches were taken, except for 1

It was all over for India when Dhoni got out

It was all over by Kohli's wicket.Dhoni and Yuvi were past their best and wouldnt have been winning this match even if they had stayed for long.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Amir literally detonated India's top-order and crushed a billion hopes within the first ten overs of the innings. For a brief moment, he owned that final. Fakhar was instrumental and frankly, briliant, in pushing the Indians on the backfoot

 

[Mamoon]

The way I see it, Pakistan would have defended 338 on that day with or without Amir, but they would not have won the match without the batsmen producing an A+ performance.

Would Amir have defended a sub 250 score, or would he have restricted India to a low total batting first? I don’t think so.

Hence, for me, Fakhar, Hafeez and Azhar were the main architects of the win.

Fakhar: his contribution is self-explanatory.

Azhar: for once in his career, he did not suck the momentum from the innings. He batted at a good strike rate from the word go, putting pressure on the Indian bowlers at a point where Fakhar was struggling to get going.

In addition, he also got out at the perfect time, because he would have been a liability in the second half of the innings.

Hafeez: the unsung hero of the game. It is understandable that people underrate his contribution to the win because people do not like him, and some say that he killed a dead snake, which is true to an extent, but the likes of Babar and Malik got out as soon as they started to go for big shots. Imad wasted deliveries, and Sarfraz did not back himself to take responsibility.

Hafeez was the difference between a competitive 290-300 total, and a match-winning 340 total.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Fakhar for me. Aamir had his tail up and his confidence was very high while India's confidence was low after Pakistan's batting. Pakistan might have lost that game had the target been 270 - 290 even if they took early wickets. Fakhar set up that win and without a set-up there wouldn't have been a finish from Aamir.

 

[proud_pakistani]

The way I see it, Pakistan would have defended 338 on that day with or without Amir, but they would not have won the match without the batsmen producing an A+ performance.

Would Amir have defended a sub 250 score, or would he have restricted India to a low total batting first? I don’t think so.

Hence, for me, Fakhar, Hafeez and Azhar were the main architects of the win.

Fakhar: his contribution is self-explanatory.

Azhar: for once in his career, he did not suck the momentum from the innings. He batted at a good strike rate from the word go, putting pressure on the Indian bowlers at a point where Fakhar was struggling to get going.

In addition, he also got out at the perfect time, because he would have been a liability in the second half of the innings.

Hafeez: the unsung hero of the game. It is understandable that people underrate his contribution to the win because people do not like him, and some say that he killed a dead snake, which is true to an extent, but the likes of Babar and Malik got out as soon as they started to go for big shots. Imad wasted deliveries, and Sarfraz did not back himself to take responsibility.

Hafeez was the difference between a competitive 290-300 total, and a match-winning 340 total.

Disagree, if Aamir wasn't playing that game we might have been opening the bowling with Rumman Raees and Junaid Khan and they would not have been the same. If Kohli would have batted it out for the first 10 overs there would always be a chance that India could chase that down. They have chased down such totals many times so to think Pakistan would have won with or without Aamir is rather naive.

 

[Mueez]

Disagree, if Aamir wasn't playing that game we might have been opening the bowling with Rumman Raees and Junaid Khan and they would not have been the same. If Kohli would have batted it out for the first 10 overs there would always be a chance that India could chase that down. They have chased down such totals many times so to think Pakistan would have won with or without Aamir is rather naive.

You are forgetting that Hasan Ali was in deadly form...
He wouldn't have let kohli & co play their natural game.

But credit should be given to Amir, who had sealed the game in the first 10 overs.

 

[Dingolfy]

You are forgetting that Hasan Ali was in deadly form...
He wouldn't have let kohli & co play their natural game.

But credit should be given to Amir, who had sealed the game in the first 10 overs.

He was taken to cleaners in the first match in CT.It was patta and once Kohli is set, then its hard to dismantle him on pattas.He even braved a Peak Ajmal to chase 330 against Pakistan in Asia cup.

 

[babajee]

He was taken to cleaners in the first match in CT.It was patta and once Kohli is set, then its hard to dismantle him on pattas.He even braved a Peak Ajmal to chase 330 against Pakistan in Asia cup.

He only conceded 30 runs after 7 overs. Lost it at the death though.

 

[Savak]

The way I see it, Pakistan would have defended 338 on that day with or without Amir, but they would not have won the match without the batsmen producing an A+ performance.

Would Amir have defended a sub 250 score, or would he have restricted India to a low total batting first? I don’t think so.

Hence, for me, Fakhar, Hafeez and Azhar were the main architects of the win.

Fakhar: his contribution is self-explanatory.

Azhar: for once in his career, he did not suck the momentum from the innings. He batted at a good strike rate from the word go, putting pressure on the Indian bowlers at a point where Fakhar was struggling to get going.

In addition, he also got out at the perfect time, because he would have been a liability in the second half of the innings.

Hafeez: the unsung hero of the game. It is understandable that people underrate his contribution to the win because people do not like him, and some say that he killed a dead snake, which is true to an extent, but the likes of Babar and Malik got out as soon as they started to go for big shots. Imad wasted deliveries, and Sarfraz did not back himself to take responsibility.

Hafeez was the difference between a competitive 290-300 total, and a match-winning 340 total.

Tbh I wasn't that impressed by Hafeez, he should have done much better along with the other batsmen who came later on, from the position and platform they had, Pakistan should have gotten to 360-370 atleast. Also in that situation a batsman in Hafeez situation should have made 50 of 20 something deliveries as opposed to 30 something deliveries, our middle order and lower order batsmen are not up to date with how to deal with modern death bowling because they don't get exposure in the IPL where the batsmen get exposed to these death bowling tactics 24/7

 

[happydavy]

I don't think chasing 340 in a final outside India was a realistic possibility for India. Moment Pakistan crossed 250 in 40th over, the contest tilted heavily in Pakistan's favor. And once Hafeez scored the fifty, there really wasn't much contest left.

India chases massive totals only while playing in India. Outside India and specifically while playing in Aus/Eng/SA, India relies on bowlers containing opposition within 250-260.

Aamir bowled beautifully but i think Fakhar Zaman and Hafeez had bigger roles in the victory.

 

[Manzoorsyed25]

I wouldn't call a plumb lbw(rohit), nick to first slip (dropped)then an intended flick towards mid on which ended up going to Shadab at point (kohli) and a nick to the keeper (dhawan) attacking shots. They were all defensive hoping for the best because the huge total in a final already put scoreboard pressure on them and once top 3 were gone there was really no hope left for India.

 

[hafeezrocks]

They have chashed 350 MULTIPLE times.

Just imagine, Pakistani batsmen scoring 330 on a pitch. Indian batsmen in theory, on normal day, would’ve done much more than that

When has India chased 350 outside India, leave alone a final?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

When has India chased 350 outside India, leave alone a final?

After 2010 india has conceeded 350+ only once in overseas conditions. We failed to chase that. That being said, We haven't got many chances to chase 350+ but we have chased 300+ many times
We chased 330 in aus in 36 overs, that is not less than any 350+ chase.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Fakhar Zaman, his hundred was the most valuable contribution and especially became more important after he had Azhar Ali run out. You could see how down he was after Azhar was run out and was trudging off the ground.

 

[ManFan]

I remember backing FZ to score a century against India and he did!

Amir had back spasms prior to the match but the 300+ score gave him a platform not to worry about conceding runs. Therefore, he could focus on getting wickets and not conserving runs.

Also, that Cross-Seam delivery was beautifully setup.

 

[lehen]

90% of us were sure that India will chase it eyes closed, so Amir , easy choice

 

[MMHS]

FZ, by some distance.

This game was at Oval and, before even 1st ball, I actually wrote in match thread something like that PAK should target around 270. FZ actually gave PAK a 100 runs handicap - people are impressed with MoHa, because of the expectation from him; otherwise the platform was set by FZ to reach 370; many teams would have done better than that from 200-2 (33'1), when FZ was out. I don't think, it was a 300+ chasing wicket for any team, in a final against PAK attack at that Oval track, even without Amir & Hasan.

Amir just made it scandalous for IND, and Pandeya made it like a "close" game with his slog swing, hence people are thinking, that gap was just about 180 runs. In reality, the game was lost, when PAK posted 127-0, in 23 overs - even the biggest collapse would have doubled that total; may be then Amir could have come in this equation for his opening spell. Comparison with other game (s), is moot here because it was a Day game without dew and it was at Oval.

More narrowing down - game was lost when Fakhar put Ashwin & Jadeja out of attack, which crashed the whole plot for VK.

 

[Dingolfy]

I don't think chasing 340 in a final outside India was a realistic possibility for India. Moment Pakistan crossed 250 in 40th over, the contest tilted heavily in Pakistan's favor. And once Hafeez scored the fifty, there really wasn't much contest left.

India chases massive totals only while playing in India. Outside India and specifically while playing in Aus/Eng/SA, India relies on bowlers containing opposition within 250-260.

Aamir bowled beautifully but i think Fakhar Zaman and Hafeez had bigger roles in the victory.

We have chased 331 in Australia against Australia with Manish Pandey of all people. England and Australian ODI pitches are pattas these days and once you get a solid start without losing wickets,you can chase anything on them.

 

[happydavy]

We have chased 331 in Australia against Australia with Manish Pandey of all people. England and Australian ODI pitches are pattas these days and once you get a solid start without losing wickets,you can chase anything on them.

Since Jan 2015, that's the only time we have won chasing 300+ outside India. We have lost 5 times chasing 300+ during the same period, you can do the math on probability of winning. One match of chasing 330 in Sydney when you had already lost the series was an aberration and not the norm.