Misbah-ul-Haq vs Iftikhar Ahmed vs Mohammad Rizwan: Who is the bigger bottler?

[Rana]

At Opening yes.

ALL FORMAT G!

 

[Local.Dada]

List them.


Go ahead.

Firstly on my personal principle I wouldn’t have Amir and Imad back and yes I think Amir is a better cricketer than Rizwan in skill-talent but we don’t have to revisit his resume here.

Shadab Khan- should I even care to explain?

Ifthikar- again, any explanation needed?

Azam Khan- nope, don’t want to see such players in international cricket. This is a top 5-6 international team not an associate with no cricket culture.

Haris Rauf- I know Pakistan fans give immunity to someone who can hit 145 clicks but cmon now. What will it take?

Saim Ayub: 2 years of mandatory red ball for this kid. Something there but not ready.

Usman Khan from UAE who played in PSL- I rest my case.

**** Babar Azam****- I won’t drop him but I rate him a level below Rizwan in white ball and 2 levels higher than him in red ball.


That’s just some names I remember based on Pak squad in WT20 and I don’t remember any fringe/bench player who is even close to Rizwan who played WT20 or I have seen come out of Pakistan in the last 2-3 years.

If you make Babar Azam or Fakhar Zaman keep and bring in Amir Jamal in place of Rizwan I think a case can be made but that’s obviously far fetched.

 

[mominsaigol]

Firstly on my personal principle I wouldn’t have Amir and Imad back and yes I think Amir is a better cricketer than Rizwan in skill-talent but we don’t have to revisit his resume here.

Shadab Khan- should I even care to explain?

Ifthikar- again, any explanation needed?

Azam Khan- nope, don’t want to see such players in international cricket. This is a top 5-6 international team not an associate with no cricket culture.

Haris Rauf- I know Pakistan fans give immunity to someone who can hit 145 clicks but cmon now. What will it take?

Saim Ayub: 2 years of mandatory red ball for this kid. Something there but not ready.

Usman Khan from UAE who played in PSL- I rest my case.

**** Babar Azam****- I won’t drop him but I rate him a level below Rizwan in white ball and 2 levels higher than him in red ball.


That’s just some names I remember based on Pak squad in WT20 and I don’t remember any fringe/bench player who is even close to Rizwan who played WT20 or I have seen come out of Pakistan in the last 2-3 years.

If you make Babar Azam or Fakhar Zaman keep and bring in Amir Jamal in place of Rizwan I think a case can be made but that’s obviously far fetched.

1) First point I don't understand? You're admitting amir is a better asset then Rizwan so what's the point of this discussion?

2) Agree on shadab Khan

3) Agree on chacha

4) Agree on azam khan

5) Rauf in my player performance review scored higher then Rizwan, You can read the review in the article section. I had it verified by mods as well so that every rating was deemed accurate. It was a review based of their metrics in the wc, and whether you like rauf or not, Raud scored the 2nd highest after Naseem Shah.

6) Agree on the saim ayub point.

7) Agree on UK

8) Disagree on Babar. Babar has had a lapse in form though.

 

[Local.Dada]

1) First point I don't understand? You're admitting amir is a better asset then Rizwan so what's the point of this discussion?

2) Agree on shadab Khan

3) Agree on chacha

4) Agree on azam khan

5) Rauf in my player performance review scored higher then Rizwan, You can read the review in the article section. I had it verified by mods as well so that every rating was deemed accurate. It was a review based of their metrics in the wc, and whether you like rauf or not, Raud scored the 2nd highest after Naseem Shah.

6) Agree on the saim ayub point.

7) Agree on UK

8) Disagree on Babar. Babar has had a lapse in form though.

First point- I personally feel someone who has been caught fixing and that too at the highest level should never be allowed again.

Anyway 5 years since then, he has retired, made a comeback, became an analyst, seems like a toxic personality.

Pakistan team apart from on-field has 100 other off-field issues, why would you bring back more such characters? I don’t believe Amir is still fixing and shouldn’t be quick to judge people we don’t know but how many red flags do you need?

You are telling me in entire domestics of Pak there isn’t a replacement for a 30+ yr old player with issues?

Where is Amir Jamal? Criminal to waste this guy.

 

[mominsaigol]

First point- I personally feel someone who has been caught fixing and that too at the highest level should never be allowed again.

Anyway 5 years since then, he has retired, made a comeback, became an analyst, seems like a toxic personality.

Pakistan team apart from on-field has 100 other off-field issues, why would you bring back more such characters? I don’t believe Amir is still fixing and shouldn’t be quick to judge people we don’t know but how many red flags do you need?

You are telling me in entire domestics of Pak there isn’t a replacement for a 30+ yr old player with issues?

Where is Amir Jamal? Criminal to waste this guy.

If Amir didn't do what he did in CT 2017, Pakistan wouldn't have won the game. Kohli and rohit were at the prime of their career. These 2 have literally chased down 370 in 40 overs. They were key wickets alongside dhawan.

Spot fixing Happened in 2010, it's time to move on. If PCB had an issue then it's on them. This happens irl as well. If a person gets a criminal record but are now cleared from jail time, they are eligible to apply for jobs and live in society etc etc. Whether the employers accept them or not is a different matter, but if they do, their liable to the same privileges as any other.

Pcb was the employer and they said A okay.

As for the analyst and toxic personality thing, I agree however I'm being 100% honest, if you're an analyst then you need to be toxic. You can't give suggestions that everyone agrees to. You have to tell the world why you have different opinions but also as to why those opinions are correct.

If someone like Ahmed shehzad says that he himself is a garbage player but his own stats in t20 world cups are superior to Babar azam and Muhammad rizwan who are claiming themselves to be the kings of t20, then the simple fact is that he's correct.

You can slander him all you wish, call him a failed cricketer, call him toxic, but it doesn't change the fact that a trash player Like shehzad has better stats in both avg and SR then bobby and rizzu and while shehzad was scrutinised for it, Bobby and rizzu are being called kings.

Being toxic doesn't invalidate the truth.

 

[Rana]

Firstly on my personal principle I wouldn’t have Amir and Imad back and yes I think Amir is a better cricketer than Rizwan in skill-talent but we don’t have to revisit his resume here.

Shadab Khan- should I even care to explain?

Ifthikar- again, any explanation needed?

Azam Khan- nope, don’t want to see such players in international cricket. This is a top 5-6 international team not an associate with no cricket culture.

Haris Rauf- I know Pakistan fans give immunity to someone who can hit 145 clicks but cmon now. What will it take?

Saim Ayub: 2 years of mandatory red ball for this kid. Something there but not ready.

Usman Khan from UAE who played in PSL- I rest my case.

**** Babar Azam****- I won’t drop him but I rate him a level below Rizwan in white ball and 2 levels higher than him in red ball.


That’s just some names I remember based on Pak squad in WT20 and I don’t remember any fringe/bench player who is even close to Rizwan who played WT20 or I have seen come out of Pakistan in the last 2-3 years.

If you make Babar Azam or Fakhar Zaman keep and bring in Amir Jamal in place of Rizwan I think a case can be made but that’s obviously far fetched.

So what are you arguing?

Remove all of these players in their positions (middle order, lower order, bowlers) and keep Rizwan as an opener before all of them?

 

[Local.Dada]

If Amir didn't do what he did in CT 2017, Pakistan wouldn't have won the game. Kohli and rohit were at the prime of their career. These 2 have literally chased down 370 in 40 overs. They were key wickets alongside dhawan.

Spot fixing Happened in 2010, it's time to move on. If PCB had an issue then it's on them. This happens irl as well. If a person gets a criminal record but are now cleared from jail time, they are eligible to apply for jobs and live in society etc etc. Whether the employers accept them or not is a different matter, but if they do, their liable to the same privileges as any other.

Pcb was the employer and they said A okay.

As for the analyst and toxic personality thing, I agree however I'm being 100% honest, if you're an analyst then you need to be toxic. You can't give suggestions that everyone agrees to. You have to tell the world why you have different opinions but also as to why those opinions are correct.

If someone like Ahmed shehzad says that he himself is a garbage player but his own stats in t20 world cups are superior to Babar azam and Muhammad rizwan who are claiming themselves to be the kings of t20, then the simple fact is that he's correct.

You can slander him all you wish, call him a failed cricketer, call him toxic, but it doesn't change the fact that a trash player Like shehzad has better stats in both avg and SR then bobby and rizzu and while shehzad was scrutinised for it, Bobby and rizzu are being called kings.

Being toxic doesn't invalidate the truth.

look I am not debating Amir’s talent nor I have issues with PCB decision for having him back. I have 0 stake here. In fact it’s an extra crutch for me as Indian fan to taunt Pak fans for players like Amir or Azam Khan for their flaws.

I am only telling you guys if I was selector with the right intention for the Pak team,who I would drop. I am only applying my personal standard for what I think is the right thing for cricket in general .

 

[mominsaigol]

look I am not debating Amir’s talent nor I have issues with PCB decision for having him back. I have 0 stake here. In fact it’s an extra crutch for me as Indian fan to taunt Pak fans for players like Amir or Azam Khan for their flaws.

I am only telling you guys if I was selector with the right intention for the Pak team,who I would drop. I am only applying my personal standard for what I think is the right thing for cricket in general .

You realise I feel like I'm talking to Misbah Ul Haq himself?

 

[Local.Dada]

So what are you arguing?

Remove all of these players in their positions (middle order, lower order, bowlers) and keep Rizwan as an opener before all of them?

Remove the players and build a team around Rizwan, Fakhar,Babar, Shaheen, Amir Jamal- that should be the template. Replace Fakhar with Masood in red ball.

 

[Rana]

You realise I feel like I'm talking to Misbah Ul Haq himself?

Before removing the core of the problem, remove someone who clearly is not the problem…

That’s what his line of argumentation is

 

[Rana]

Remove the players and build a team around Rizwan, Fakhar,Babar, Shaheen, Amir Jamal- that should be the template. Replace Fakhar with Masood in red ball.

That’s what Pakistan have been doing for the past 4-5 years? What rock have you been hiding under? Pakistan built their team around Babar+Rizwan doing whatever they want, with Fakhar nodding along, Shadab (instead of Jamal) and Shaheen as their spearhead bowler.

What’s going to be different this time? You want to continue the musical chairs for the other 5-6 positions?? You want Pakistan to load up more openers in middle order positions??

 

[Local.Dada]

Before removing the core of the problem, remove someone who clearly is not the problem…

That’s what his line of argumentation is

Who replaces Rizwan, let’s attack this the other way around? I don’t follow Pak domestics so any Klassen, Travis Head type players in the pipeline?

 

[mominsaigol]

Before removing the core of the problem, remove someone who clearly is not the problem…

That’s what his line of argumentation is

Ik I don't even understand what he's trying to say?

He's basically saying, Look I'm indian so I have pakistan's best interests in mind as the selector and I think the main problem is that amir is a better cricketer then rizwan so let's remove Amir and keep rizwan as the opener?

I don't even know how to respond to this

 

[Rana]

Who replaces Rizwan, let’s attack this the other way around? I don’t follow Pak domestics so any Klassen, Travis Head type players in the pipeline?

Who replaces Rizwan the T20 opener? Is that your question now?

 

[Rana]

Ik I don't even understand what he's trying to say?

He's basically saying, Look I'm indian so I have pakistan's best interests in mind as the selector and I think the main problem is that amir is a better cricketer then rizwan so let's remove Amir and keep rizwan as the opener?

I don't even know how to respond to this

It’s a bit like Hafeez’s solution to have Sahibzada at 7, Haseebullah open with Rizwan and Fakhar at 4

 

[Local.Dada]

Ik I don't even understand what he's trying to say?

He's basically saying, Look I'm indian so I have pakistan's best interests in mind as the selector and I think the main problem is that amir is a better cricketer then rizwan so let's remove Amir and keep rizwan as the opener?

I don't even know how to respond to this

dude; this is a cricket discussion. I hope you guys play a team of Sharjeel; Azam Khan, Sarfaraz, Haris Rauf etc against India in CT or next WT20 for all I care. Now that’s I would genuinely want. I am just giving you an assessment of what I feel is a genuine cricket fans. Separate the 2 and no issues, the last thing I want is the whole Ind-Pak banter here.

 

[Local.Dada]

If you don’t follow Pak cricket, don’t give insulting suggestions to those who do follow it and have SERIOUS issues with it currently.

Who replaces Rizwan the T20 opener? Is that your question now?

No who replaces Rizwan as an all format keeper and give me 1 backup name for each format if you like. Keeper/Opener- so if you replace an opener you will still need a keeper so hit me.

 

[Rana]

dude; this is a cricket discussion. I hope you guys play a team of Sharjeel; Azam Khan, Sarfaraz, Haris Rauf etc against India in CT or next WT20 for all I care. Now that’s I would genuinely want. I am just giving you an assessment of what I feel is a genuine cricket fans. Separate the 2 and no issues, the last thing I want is the whole Ind-Pak banter here.

Aap rehne dain

Give suggestions to Gambhir to open with Gaikwad and Rahane. Tell him India doesn’t have any Klaasen to replace Pant

 

[Rana]

No who replaces Rizwan as an all format keeper and give me 1 backup name for each format if you like. Keeper/Opener- so if you replace an opener you will still need a keeper so hit me.

Ohhh the All format thing…

Is there a rule in cricket that you must have an all format everything?

 

[Local.Dada]

Aap rehne dain

Give suggestions to Gambhir to open with Gaikwad and Rahane. Tell him India doesn’t have any Klaasen to replace Pant

We don’t need Rahane, we have Jaiswal. Before that’s taken as chest thumping, see above my comments for Saim Ayub. You want to him to be like Jaiswal right? As far as Gaikwad goes there is Gill too and I wouldn’t want Gill in T20 only to protect him for odi and tests

 

[BouncerGuy]

The real discussion was who was the biggest bottler but that discussion is long lost.

Come back to the topic and answer the question.

 

[shaz619]

Misbah every day and twice on Sunday.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Misbah every day and twice on Sunday.

plz give him a rest of sunday atleast lol

 

[usman.sandhu]

All time pakistan bottler 11

1) Rizwan (WK)
2) Nasir Jamshed
3) Asad Shafiq
4) Misbah ul Haq
5) Shadab Khan
6) Iftikhar Ahmed
7) Muhammad Nawaz
8) Usama Mir
9) Mohammad Sami
10) Rahat Ali
11) Muhammad Irfan

^^ Be is Mohammad semi's frequent No balls, Usama amir's drop catches and trash bowling, Shadab Khan always removing pressure from the opposition, Rahat Ali dropping catches and being a run machine, Muhammad irfan dropping from the sky, nawaz bottling final overs, Misbah and rizzu bottling tournament finals or knockouts and jamshed and shafiq being bumbling morons

Why is Umar Akmal not in this, guy has bottled quite a few games..

 

[usman.sandhu]

Remove the players and build a team around Rizwan, Fakhar,Babar, Shaheen, Amir Jamal- that should be the template. Replace Fakhar with Masood in red ball.

Why do Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen get to stay, they have been pathetic over the past year or so and have left no stone unturned to humiliate us... should all be dropped for their performance and off-field antics... enough with this toxicity...

 

[jnaveen1980]

Misbah is a bit like Moyo in ODI. Not talking about batsmanship. Moyo >> Misbah in terms of batting skills. Similar to Moyo right at the end he make some runs and make himself look good. He was never a match winner. If ABDV fails at the last hurdle then you can say he bottled it. But Misba punched way above his weight given his limited talent. He scored 3 fifties against India in ICC events. All 3 resulted in losses. If you look at others in the same match they also failed spectacularly.

 

[BouncerGuy]

YOu can't say Misbah bottled anything apart from that 2007 game but IFFI has bottled almost every game he was supposed to finish. That guy missed full tosses and loose balls that should have been hit for runs.

IFFI>>misbah

 

[shaz619]

plz give him a rest of sunday atleast lol

Friday for Jummah only

 

[zacattakk]

The winner by far is King Misbah. Its not even close. Legendary bottler. Tuk Tuk your way to a painfully slow 50 with 1 -2 singles in an over resulting in a crazy high required run rate, then finally try to hit shots when its too late and get out. And repeat.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

The winner by far is King Misbah. Its not even close. Legendary bottler. Tuk Tuk your way to a painfully slow 50 with 1 -2 singles in an over resulting in a crazy high required run rate, then finally try to hit shots when its too late and get out. And repeat.

Iftikhar is also giving gim a tough time! lol

 

[ayemgilani86]

3 of the biggest bottlers to ever represent Pakistan cricket, so which of these 3 are worse?

I'll list some of their notable innings but not all

Misbah

1) Bottled the game against India in the 2007 Final where he scored couldn't get Pakistan over the line despite only 6 of 4 needed.

2) Semi Final against India in 2011: When Misbah Walked in, Pakistan were 103 of 3 in 23 overs. 27 overs were remaining and only 158 were needed to get Pakistan over the line yet, Misbah plays a slow as molasses innings, and by the time he departed, game was already over. Wickets kept falling at the other end because he kept taking strike away from himself. And even gave it to tail enders numerous times.

3) 27th feburary 2012: Pakistan vs England, England has only made 129, By the time misbah walked in, Pakistan were well ahead of the run rate, only 60 more to chase of 43 deliveries with wickets in hand. Misbah ends up scoring at less then 5 rr and leaves Pakistan to get 6 of the last ball and obviously isn't able to get Pakistan over the line.

This game was such an embrassment that Misbah himself was forced to retire by PCB and never play a t20 game again.

4) The game thar happened today in the final against Indian champions, You already know what Misbah did lol.

Rizwan

1) Asia cup 2022: Sri lanka despite scoring 170, Bowled 11 extras before the first ball was even bowled leaving a total of 159 to chase in t20 overs. Fakhar and Babar had departed early, Which left both chacha and rizwan over 16.3 overs to chase down 137 as both bobby and fakhar collectively put 22 extra on the board before departing in 3.3 overs.

What did these 2 do? By the time they departed, Pakistan had to chase down 60 of 24? With tail enders at the crease? Lol.

2) India vs Pakistan 2024: India had scored 119 on a minefield NY pitch. It was important to provide a Pant like start to have any chance of chasing it down. What did rizwan do? Score 31 of 44 and depart leaving inad wasim with tail enders to chase down 119 with bumrah and axar patel, 2 bowlers who didn't even let sunil marine score on IPl batting paradise roads to chase down a tough total on a mine field pitch.

Chacha

1) Asia cup 2022, same as rizwan.

2) The less said about his super over antics against Zimbabwe and USA the better.

These are just a few notable examples, However these 3 are easily the 3 biggest bottlers Pakistan has ever had. Now the question is, Which one is the worst.

you forgot the Test match against Zimbabwe that Misbah screwed up

 

[Cricket Warrior]

YOu can't say Misbah bottled anything apart from that 2007 game but IFFI has bottled almost every game he was supposed to finish. That guy missed full tosses and loose balls that should have been hit for runs.

IFFI>>misbah

Misbah's 2007 World Cup blunder is big enough to be called a bottler but there's no comparison with Ifti Chacha since he's the owner of the bottling company.

 

[mominsaigol]

Misbah's 2007 World Cup blunder is big enough to be called a bottler but there's no comparison with Ifti Chacha since he's the owner of the bottling company.

In business no one owns something completely 100%.

I'd say chacha has 40% Ownership, Misbah 32% and rizwan 28%

 

[W63L35]

As far as ODI cricket is concerned, nobody can even come close to Misbah is destroying the ODI team, culture and mentality of Pakistan team - with his ODI batting, ODI captaincy, favoritism/animosity in selections.


I did this thread 10 years ago.... and I loved every response from the members. Either posters hated it or loved it.

Misbah-ul-Haq's duration of stay at the wicket in ODIs and its impact on the match result

This thread is dedicated to; 1) Fans who believe.... Misbah is the back bone of the Pakistani batting in ODIs. 2) Fans who believe that..... when Misbah scores runs, Pakistan wins in ODIs. 3) Fans who believe that.... when if Misbah did not stay at the wicket, Pakistan would be in big trouble in...

ppforum.pakpassion.net

How can a batsman with the fastest test hundred could NEVER score a 100 in ODIs? His fastest 40+ score is a 100 in test cricket. His fastest 3 out 5 innings are in test cricket! So they guy who could bat with an ODI/T20 S/R retires with a career S/R of 73.75 in ODIs. How and why?

Then if you look at the list below, his highest S/R ODI/T20 innings are mostly vs minnows.