Who was the greater cricketer overall - Imran Khan or Malcolm Marshall?

[Danyaalr01]

“Master tactician” that only won 14 Tests and lost a Test to Sri Lanka in 1986, a team that were proper minnows in the 80s and only won 2 Tests. Miandad won the same number of matches while captaining 14 matches less.

Master tactician also couldn’t reach a World Cup final until he was in his 40s and was saved by rain after his team were shot for 50 odd.

There is no doubt that Imran was a great player, a great captain and a great leader. However, he is clearly overrated by his blind followers who do not have the capacity to distinguish between facts and romanticism.

He might not have been a master tactician, but there is no doubt that he was an inspirational and powerful leader. He managed to keep the Pakistan team together and politics free under his captaincy. Other teams may have had better players on their team sheets but he lifted the players up and matched those sides, that is where no other captain can come close to him. They may be better captains, but Imran was a natural leader who led from the front and was well respected by his own team and other teams.

 

[Khan12]

Desperation from a guy with nothing to offer bar one defeat to SL. LOL, and the Minadad one is funny and tragic at the same time, but if you dont understand context then that is your problem not mine. You need to find something that can actually know about because its def not cricket. Go back and keep worshipping the mafia because outside that you have no intellect to understand what i said.
As far as Kohli is concerned- didnt he get whacked by England 4-1 last year- an England team that is at best average. ouch!! and just about beat an Aussie time missing one of their best ever in Smith. Mate keep digging a hole.

India were unlucky they didn't win the toss and the clouds came when india were batting, a miracle took place as moeen outbowled HTB ashwin again.

 

[Ab Fan]

Imran was the better bowler.

It's either pick in tests but Wasim wins well ahead in ODIs.

Wasim's bowling was the biggest reason why you had to wait for 27 years for a World Cup trophy.

 

[Ab Fan]

On topic, Imran was an ATG bowler, a decent batsmen and one of the greatest captains to come from Asia.

He is right up there with the greatest cricketers the game has seen, not sure though how I compare him with specialists like Marshall or McGrath or Wasim.

 

[Robert]

It's either pick in tests but Wasim wins well ahead in ODIs.

Wasim's bowling was the biggest reason why you had to wait for 27 years for a World Cup trophy.

And Gary Gilmour in 1975, and Richards and Garner in 1979, and Sandip Patil in 1983, and a general all-round performance by Australia in 1987, and an obsolete LO structure from 1995-2015.

 

[Danyaalr01]

And Gary Gilmour in 1975, and Richards and Garner in 1979, and Sandip Patil in 1983, and a general all-round performance by Australia in 1987, and an obsolete LO structure from 1995-2015.

Yeah. Pakistan had good chances in all the WCs leading up to 92, they were stopped everytime, it all came together in 92. The best chances for them to win after that were 1996 and 1999. After that Pakistan wasn't good enough to win a WC. Our best chance came in 2011 when a certain chief selector/coach went tuk tuk.

 

[Mamoon]

He might not have been a master tactician, but there is no doubt that he was an inspirational and powerful leader. He managed to keep the Pakistan team together and politics free under his captaincy. Other teams may have had better players on their team sheets but he lifted the players up and matched those sides, that is where no other captain can come close to him. They may be better captains, but Imran was a natural leader who led from the front and was well respected by his own team and other teams.

No disagreements there, but we also need to understand that totalitarian approach doesn’t always work. Imran was lucky that he didn’t have to deal with a chairman like Ijaz Butt who would have blatantly refused to delegate all powers to him.

Similarly, he was lucky to have the backing of an influential and powerful family unlike Miandad, which is why he won the power struggle in spite of being an inferior tactician.

Imran Khan’s leadership style may not have worked today or if he was in the same generation (and not their senior) as the likes of Wasim, Shoaib, Yousuf, Younis etc. who had big egos and wouldn’t have allowed a captain from their age group to lead the team like a dictator and sit out of series because the weather was not to his liking.

Imran’s leadership style must be praised but we also need to consider all these factors.

 

[Danyaalr01]

No disagreements there, but we also need to understand that totalitarian approach doesn’t always work. Imran was lucky that he didn’t have to deal with a chairman like Ijaz Butt who would have blatantly refused to delegate all powers to him.

Similarly, he was lucky to have the backing of an influential and powerful family unlike Miandad, which is why he won the power struggle in spite of being an inferior tactician.

Imran Khan’s leadership style may not have worked today or if he was in the same generation (and not their senior) as the likes of Wasim, Shoaib, Yousuf, Younis etc. who had big egos and wouldn’t have allowed a captain from their age group to lead the team like a dictator and sit out of series because the weather was not to his liking.

Imran’s leadership style must be praised but we also need to consider all these factors.

Yeah, this style of leadership only works if the captain leads from the front. Sarfaraz also attempts to do this, in a much worse way (the shouting) and it fails miserably due to his lack of inspiration, he can give it but not take it (can't take criticism but likes shouting). For Sarfaraz it fails as he is the worst performer in the team. And Sarfaraz's tactics are quite poor.

 

[Robert]

Yeah, this style of leadership only works if the captain leads from the front. Sarfaraz also attempts to do this, in a much worse way (the shouting) and it fails miserably due to his lack of inspiration, he can give it but not take it (can't take criticism but likes shouting). For Sarfaraz it fails as he is the worst performer in the team. And Sarfaraz's tactics are quite poor.

Imran led from the front, bowling fast for long spells and batting doggedly, setting an example.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Imran led from the front, bowling fast for long spells and batting doggedly, setting an example.

Yep, that's what I said. Your team mates must respect you as an individual and player to be a strict captain, Imran was well respected as a player and individual and no one dared to question him.

 

[Bewal Express]

No disagreements there, but we also need to understand that totalitarian approach doesn’t always work. Imran was lucky that he didn’t have to deal with a chairman like Ijaz Butt who would have blatantly refused to delegate all powers to him.

Similarly, he was lucky to have the backing of an influential and powerful family unlike Miandad, which is why he won the power struggle in spite of being an inferior tactician.

Imran Khan’s leadership style may not have worked today or if he was in the same generation (and not their senior) as the likes of Wasim, Shoaib, Yousuf, Younis etc. who had big egos and wouldn’t have allowed a captain from their age group to lead the team like a dictator and sit out of series because the weather was not to his liking.

Imran’s leadership style must be praised but we also need to consider all these factors.

Certain Captaincy styles work for certain players at certain times- there are no hard and fast rules. What really works is success, and if you are not successful your style is wrong. Fergy was a dictator and a bully but he won the title before he left with an average team, the same team that Moyes struggled with a few months later.

BTW
Wasnt Miandad married into a rich influential family?

 

[Napa]

1980s

Tests
Marshall = 323 wickets at 19.91 average and 44.5 SR
Imran = 256 wickets at 19.12 average and 47 SR

ODIs
Marshall = 135 wickets at 24.52 average and 43.5 SR
Imran = 144 wickets at 22.95 average and 35.4 SR

Imran was not far behind in the 80s when they were both at their peak as bowlers.

Then, you consider Imran's batting and leadership, he easily comes out as the better cricketer.

Let's not forget that Imran played a brilliant knock in the 1992 world cup final that helped his team lift the cup.

He saved several test matches with his batting. Imran also played in a far weaker team. Marshall was part of a GOAT bowling attack.

If you take out the effect of home umpires, Marshall comes out ahead as a bowler.

In the 3 other strongest Test playing countries Australia, England and India (where they also played 9 or more Tess), over their careers Marshall averaged 23.15, 18.70 and 24.61, while IK averaged 28.51, 24.63 and 28.03.

I would say that Marshall is considerably ahead of IK as a bowler, as a batsman IK was definitely better.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/52419.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/40560.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

 

[Mamoon]

Certain Captaincy styles work for certain players at certain times- there are no hard and fast rules. What really works is success, and if you are not successful your style is wrong. Fergy was a dictator and a bully but he won the title before he left with an average team, the same team that Moyes struggled with a few months later.

BTW
Wasnt Miandad married into a rich influential family?

Married into not born into. Imran owes half of his career to his mother’s Burki family. He had every possible opportunity to become an international player.

He was educated at the posh Aitchison in the 60s when it was the best boys school in Pakistan and had proper cricket facilities and then went to Oxford. Nevertheless, he deserves credit for becoming a legendary player which was down to his immense talent and hard work.

 

[Slog]

Even Malcom Marshall himself would put Imran Khan above him as a cricketer

 

[Bewal Express]

Married into not born into. Imran owes half of his career to his mother’s Burki family. He had every possible opportunity to become an international player.

He was educated at the posh Aitchison in the 60s when it was the best boys school in Pakistan and had proper cricket facilities and then went to Oxford. Nevertheless, he deserves credit for becoming a legendary player which was down to his immense talent and hard work.

Miandad was powerful enough to get recalled into the 96 WC team when he could barely stand up

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo8MBO8R_vg&ab_channel=zk427

Marshal is known for his mean rising deliveries from good length and rightly so. He was pure scary.

However, Imran also had a mean bouncer. He used it quite a bit to put batsmen on the backfoot and then use his indippers or outswingers.

He was just a genius in having a reason for everything he did. And he didn't even play half the matches he could/should have during his peak. Never bothered with numbers. The greatest cricketer from South Asia - by far in my book.

 

[Robert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo8MBO8R_vg&ab_channel=zk427

Marshal is known for his mean rising deliveries from good length and rightly so. He was pure scary.

Not really - early Maco was more of a skiddy bowler whose short-pitched balls didn’t climb, which is how he managed to hit Gatting in the face.

Latterly he turned into a mature Lillee figure, sharp fast-medium and swinging it both ways.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Imran khan transformed a teams mindset , he was more than just an all rounder for pakistan.

He instilled that winning mindset in pakistan cricket when draws were deemed more than enough.

Marshall though was the best bowler of his era and probably contributed in more victories. As a cricketer he should be ranked higher.

 

[tyron_woodley]

An indiv will say marshall.
BHag viru will say imran because he is a fake Indian.

Tyron always gives correct answers.
Answer is Imran Khan. Imran Khan is greater than Marshall.

Who is the better bowler ? Marshall.
It's obvious who is the better batsman.

However the gap between the two as bowlers is very minimal so Imran is way better as a whole package.

If I had to make a team, Imran would be my first pick out of these 2. Kalis, Imran, Sobers are all in a class of their own.

Add stokes to that list too very soon.

 

[shamaan]

I think imran is overall better

 

[Chrish]

IK..

Arguably third greatest ever..

 

[Heisenberg111]

IK..

Arguably third greatest ever..

Has to be Sachin/IK/Viv

 

[A.A.Z]

An indiv will say marshall.
BHag viru will say imran because he is a fake Indian.

Tyron always gives correct answers.
Answer is Imran Khan. Imran Khan is greater than Marshall.

Who is the better bowler ? Marshall.
It's obvious who is the better batsman.

However the gap between the two as bowlers is very minimal so Imran is way better as a whole package.

If I had to make a team, Imran would be my first pick out of these 2. Kalis, Imran, Sobers are all in a class of their own.

Add stokes to that list too very soon.

Sobers and Kallis are both batting all rounders. Stokes too.

Imran has no equal as a bowling all rounder. He is in a league of his own.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Sobers and Kallis are both batting all rounders. Stokes too.

Imran has no equal as a bowling all rounder. He is in a league of his own.

not going to argue there at all. Ofcourse imran is in a league of his own.

What i mean is that players like imran, kalis and sobers are a class of their own. They would be first picks in the team.

Imran is far ahead of kapil and botham. I do feel hadlee may be a bit hard done by as he played for a relatively weaker side. Hadlee as a bowler is every bit as good as imran i believe. As a batsman though, imran is leagues ahead.

Imran is easily the best player of all time in my humble opinion along with kalis and sobers. All rounders of that calibre is just a rare breed.

 

[shamaan]

not going to argue there at all. Ofcourse imran is in a league of his own.

What i mean is that players like imran, kalis and sobers are a class of their own. They would be first picks in the team.

Imran is far ahead of kapil and botham. I do feel hadlee may be a bit hard done by as he played for a relatively weaker side. Hadlee as a bowler is every bit as good as imran i believe. As a batsman though, imran is leagues ahead.

Imran is easily the best player of all time in my humble opinion along with kalis and sobers. All rounders of that calibre is just a rare breed.

Atleast you admit that the bowlers in that area were ATG level