Who were the three greatest match-winners amongst all-rounders?

[Harsh Thakor]

This list is only analyzing the impact of all-rounders as pure match-winners and does not judge overall merit.More than skill and consistency ***** the player's ability to shape matches with both bat and ball or even in the field as a catcher or skipper.The basic criteria is how much the impact of wickets and runs together in addition to catches or captaincy contributed to the team's victory.


1.Gary Sobers-Simply supreme .Adjectives would not be available to ***** his supremacy as though God sent him to play cricket.Took cricketing genius to it's supreme zenith and could create the impact of a thunderstorm out there in the middle in any situation whether batting,bowling or fielding.In total control resembled a great emperor .Gary was like a surgeon,boxer and poet moulded into one who was at his best as a match-winner in England in 1966 taking 20 wickets and scoring 722 runs and again in 1970 when he captured 21 wickets and scored 573 runs.Also spectacular v England at Kingston in 1967-68 when he scored 113 and took 8 wickets ressurecting his side from the grave.


2.Imran Khan-
No cricketer did so much to shape the destiny of a nation in his era as Imran who took Pakistan to the pinnacle of glory contributing as a fast bowler,all-rounder and captain.Dubious umpiring decisions cost Imran the distinction of leading Pakistan to their 1st series win on Carribean soil and thus morally wining the unofficila world test championship.He also led Pakistan to their 1st ever series wins on English and Indian soil in 1987.In 1982 although he lost the series he gave arguably the finest all-round cricketing performance by an overseas cricketer in England after Sobers when averaging 53 with the bat and capturing 21 wickets at 18 .53 runs apiece.Few cricketers were as ferocious or determined as Imran who resembled a military marshal.Not so flamboyant with the bat but often super in playing an anchor role or that of an architect.At his best as a batsmen in 1983 and 1992 world cup and in 1982 in England.Not at his best with both bat and ball at the same period like Sobers,Miller and Botham.Performances as a skipper and overall longevity made me choose Imran just above Botham and Miller as a match-winner.


3.Ian Botham-
Cricket's equivalent of a Hercules who at his best would remind you of dramatic reversal of plot in a Hollywood epic.His best performances in a single match or series surpassed that of every allrounder. In the 1981 Jubilee test and 1981 home Ashes he literally ressurected England from the grave to reach the pinnacle of glory.Singlehandedly no-allrounder reversed the fortunes of game like Botham did then.At his best with both bat and ball Ina may have even surpassed Sobers as a pre match-winner but he lacked consistency.Few bowlers were ever more intelligent or deployed the slower ball better and few batsmen hit the ball harder.Majority of Botham's centuries and 5 wicket hauls were achieved in test wins.The scar in his career is that he was not at his best against West Indies,particularly on their soil.He also arguably benefited playing the weaker sides during Packer cricket like Australia and Pakistan.With both bat and ball more effective than any all-rounder of his time and unquestionably the best against Australia.Statistically in peak period 2nd to only Sobers.Also unsuccessful as a skipper unlike Imran Khan or Kapil Dev.



Keith Miller may well have been at 2 or 3 but missed out as he never captained his team like Imran or equaled Botham statistically in wins.On pure skill Miller could well have been 2nd.Miller also did not have the longevity of Imran or Botham.Excluding captaincy Miller would have definitely made it.I don't think Kallis had the 'x' factor of the 4 players discussed or could turn the complexion of games as much.Statistically Kallis was the greatest all-rounder but was not at his best with both bat and ball and not so flamboyant with the bat.

 

[Gilly]

Adjectives would not be available to ***** his supremacy as though God sent him to play cricket.Took cricketing genius to it's supreme zenith and could create the impact of a thunderstorm out there in the middle in any situation whether batting,bowling or fielding.In total control resembled a great emperor .Gary was like a surgeon,boxer and poet moulded into one

I read this but cant help thinking this man, god, emperor only averaged 43 with the bat and 39 with the ball against Australia. Good bat but third string bowler.

 

[Bilal7]

1) Imran Khan
2) Jacques Kallis
3) Ian Botham

 

[Harsh Thakor]

1) Imran Khan
2) Jacques Kallis
3) Ian Botham

Was not Sobers far more flamboyant with the bat and versatile with the ball than Kallis?With both ball and bat together he overshadowed Imran and Botham in single tests and series.

 

[Bilal7]

Was not Sobers far more flamboyant with the bat and versatile with the ball than Kallis?With both ball and bat together he overshadowed Imran and Botham in single tests and series.

More versatile? Perhaps in the same way that an old van is more versatile than a shiny, new Lamborghini. Sure the van can carry more people and also be used to transport luggage but there is no doubt about which vehicle is more valuable.

Sobers could have employed 37 different bowling styles and he still would not match the quality of Imran Khan the bowler. A bowling average of 22 simply cannot be compared with a bowling average more than 10 points higher, let's not even speak of the strike rates.

Imran also has the best MOTS to series played ratio in history so no, Sobers never overshadowed Imran in test series nor individual tests. Imran Khan was the better all-rounder although Sobers was better than Botham.

 

[ManFan]

Sobers is overrated with the ball and Imran underrated with the bat.

 

[Bilal7]

Imran averaged 50+ with the bat for the last ten years of his career. He also has a match-winning innings in an ODI WC final, something even Sachin Tendulker was not able to achieve, so yes, he is underrated as a batsman.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=132062]Harsh Thakor[/MENTION]

Instead of going by hype, check match by match stats first buddy - that guy Sobers doesn't stand even close to Hadlee, Kumble, Warne ..... let alone Imran or Botham. His stats are massively inflated on bashing post colonial IND/PAK (Average over 90 combined with more than half of his hundreds) and ENG at home. Most of his bowling heroics are in UK, where what he did was bowl lot in favorable condition, else play as 6th bowler. You'll notice that if you analyze overs bowled per Test - match by match stats. He made the team on batting merit and bowled selectively to puff his stats. No disrespect, but this guy has to be the most over rated cricketer ever - at least Bradman had the numbers for his accolades, this guy was the shining sun among Trevor Bailey, Ramkant Deshai, Intekhab Alam, John Reid ........ Just do a simple analysis - instead of W, just run his stats on matches that ended in W/L result (which indicates, those were not roads). That 254 at MCG is another myth - look at the Aussie bowling line up and then remember, he came to bat at 180+, when DK Lillee already had bowled 38, 8 balls overs in the Match.

Individually, if I am to pick one player, probably it has to be Murali, followed by Imran. After that, it's really tight between Bradman, Botham, Viv, Hadlee, Warne, Mac, Kumble (he was phenomenal in home - outside where IND didn't win a single Test from August 1986 to April 2002 - well did won 2, one at Colombo & one at Dhaka), Wasim, Miller, Lindwall, Hobbs, Lara, Ashwin ......This list will be biased towards bowling all-rounders for obvious reasons.

 

[Chrish]

If being all-rounder means performing simultaneously in both disciplines then:

1. Sobers
2. Miller
3. Botham

 

[Chrish]

Also Wicket Keepers are considered all-rounders as well which adds another dimension to debate.

 

[Napa]

Sobers had it all. I will let Dave Liverman do the talking:

A cricketing genius, Garry Sobers excelled at all aspects of the game, and few would argue his claim as the finest allround player in modern cricket. His exceptional Test batting average tells little about the manner in which he made the runs, his elegant yet powerful style marked by all the shots, but memorably his off-side play. As a batsman he was great, as a bowler, merely superb, but would have made the West Indies side as a bowler alone. He was remarkably versatile with the ball, bowling two styles of spin - left-arm orthodox and wrist spin, but was also a fine fast-medium opening bowler. His catching close to the wicket may have been equalled but never surpassed, and he was a brilliant fielder anywhere. Sobers excelled at most athletic activities, playing golf, soccer and bastketball for Barbados, and made his first class debut at the age of 16, appearing in Tests a year later. He was played initially mostly as a bowler, but four years later set the Test record for an individual batsman with a mammoth 365 against Pakistan. His achievments are numerous - including the six consecutive sixes hit off an over from the unfortunate Malcolm Nash, a superb innings of 254 for the Rest of the World against Australia in 1971 that earned the praise of Don Bradman, and much more.

 

[hafizexpress]

Since you said more than skills and consistency the player's ability to shape matches with both bat and ball I think Afridi could even qualify haha

Good list tho and are you a writer your selections of words and descriptive style of saying things are very appealing.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

If being all-rounder means performing simultaneously in both disciplines then:

1. Sobers
2. Miller
3. Botham

greatly appreciate list and order.How would you compare Imran to Sobers and overall was he 2nd best as an all-rounder?what about Kallis?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Sobers had it all. I will let Dave Liverman do the talking:

Beautifully portrayed sir.

 

[Chrish]

greatly appreciate list and order.How would you compare Imran to Sobers and overall was he 2nd best as an all-rounder?what about Kallis?

Sobers no 1 for me.

I put Imran, Kallis, Gilchrist and Miller in the same bracket. Imran was a great captain. Kalllis a great slip fielder. Gilchrist the purest all-rounder (had to keep in each game) and Miller was considered to be the best captain their team never had.

Can’t just say one was better than the other.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Sobers no 1 for me.

I put Imran, Kallis, Gilchrist and Miller in the same bracket. Imran was a great captain. Kalllis a great slip fielder. Gilchrist the purest all-rounder (had to keep in each game) and Miller was considered to be the best captain their team never had.

Can’t just say one was better than the other.

what about Botham?

 

[Chrish]

what about Botham?

Botham’s later half was mediocre after he became obese. He will fall below these guys as overall cricketer

 

[Shafi]

Kalis
Hadley
Sakib

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Botham’s later half was mediocre after he became obese. He will fall below these guys as overall cricketer

At his best from 1977-82 Botham amongst top 2-3 allrounders?

 

[Chrish]

At his best from 1977-82 Botham amongst top 2-3 allrounders?

Definitely if going by selective time period

 

[MMHS]

Beautifully portrayed sir.

No, that's half true - Malcolm Nash was a medium pacer, decided to experiment with leg spin in a dying match, first time in FC career - chose the wrong person & wrong end on that smallish Swansea ground. One of many such myths that needs a better research than going by people glorifying their generation.

That 254 is one of the most over hyped innings in history, glorified by Ian Chappel, because he couldn't take the beating of his bowlers in an unofficial Test. Check the bowlers & context, you'll also realize. Finally that 365* - made against a PAK team in its 1st decade of Test, when their opening bowler Mahmood Hasan broke down in 1st over, Khan Mohammad by 1st hour - Fazal had to bowl 85 overs & Kardar 35 ........

That record against IND is boasted from basing attacks that had Pataudi, Gavaskar, Durani, Jaisima, Jayantlal taking new ball. That batting heroics in ENG is after Truman, Statham & Laker retiered - that's after 1963 Wisden trophy.

These are facts - you can check from scorecards, instead of impressive portraits.

Great entertainer, greater versatile talent in the amateurish era of cricket & more shining because he played in an era when average scoring rate was 2.1 and 2nd best all-rounder was Intekhab ....

 

[Oligochaetes]

1. Imran Khan: 11 MOM's in 88 Matches, 8 Man of Series.
2. J H Kallis: 23 MOM's in 166 matches, 9 Man of Series.
3. Hadlee: 9 MOM's in 86 matches, 8 Man of Series.

Best Bowling All rounder....
Wasim Akram: 17 MOM's in 104 matches, 7 Man of Series.

 

[Specialisttailender]

Look at stats

1.Jayasuriya- Leads the most MOM awards and MOS awards in second place after Sachin.
2.Kallis- No statistics are need.
3.Pollock/Afridi- Afridi loses you lot of matches and also wins you lot of matches.

Rest were never true all rounders and lot of hyping going on hear.

 

[Robert]

Sobers wouldn't run through a batting line very often but his batting took the game away very fast and got WI into winning positions.

 

[Sidilicious]

1. Imran Khan: 11 MOM's in 88 Matches, 8 Man of Series.
2. J H Kallis: 23 MOM's in 166 matches, 9 Man of Series.
3. Hadlee: 9 MOM's in 86 matches, 8 Man of Series.

Best Bowling All rounder....
Wasim Akram: 17 MOM's in 104 matches, 7 Man of Series.

Well, by that measure

Ashwin: 7 MOMs in 52 matches, 7 Man of the Series

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Sobers wouldn't run through a batting line very often but his batting took the game away very fast and got WI into winning positions.

Your best 3 allrounders of all in order as match winners?Sobers on top?Where is Botham,Imran or Miller?

 

[captain.hansolo]

Imran averaged 50+ with the bat for the last ten years of his career. He also has a match-winning innings in an ODI WC final, something even Sachin Tendulker was not able to achieve, so yes, he is underrated as a batsman.

such single, isolated instances are not particularly useful in rating the performance of an individual across their entire career.

for instance, in the 2011 WC final, Dhoni did exceptionally well with the bat, but that single incident does not lead to a profound adjudication of his career.

Tendulkar may not have scored big in the 2003, or 2011 WC finals, but in a career of 400+ ODIs, that is less than 0.5% of the sample space. That says something when you consider that one of the greatest ODI centuries of the modern era was scored by Tendulkar, against Australia in UAE. But as before, that single incident wont make Tendulkar a legend of the sport.

I do agree that Imran Khan may have been underrated as a batsman, but there is a reason for that - Imran Khan had two careers - Imran the bowler and Imran the batsman (and elder statesman of the team). Since there was little overlap between the two periods (likely because of how deep in the order he batted), he is underrated as a batsman, for that aspect of his game became dominant after he firmly established himself as a world class bowler.

Similarly, Sanath Jayasuriya, his success with the bat and the bowl rarely overlapped. Or even Michael Bevan...

There are very few all rounders who consistently delivered with either the bat or the bowl or both, at regular intervals. Some exceptions being Chris Cairns, Chris Harris, Brian McMillan, and of course Saurav Ganguly.

 

[amax]

Well, by that measure

Ashwin: 7 MOMs in 52 matches, 7 Man of the Series

this shows Ashwin is such an impact cricketer

I was reading this article on wasim at his peak from 1990-1997

"During these eight years, Akram was Man of the Match in 12 of the 48 Tests he played, an incredible average of one every four games. Eight of these were in overseas Tests, including the game in Melbourne and the next one in Adelaide, when he turned in an outstanding all-round performance, taking six wickets and scoring 52 and 123. At the time it was only the 12th instance of a player scoring 150 or more and taking six or more wickets in a Test."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/457149.html

 

[Sidilicious]

this shows Ashwin is such an impact cricketer

I was reading this article on wasim at his peak from 1990-1997

"During these eight years, Akram was Man of the Match in 12 of the 48 Tests he played, an incredible average of one every four games. Eight of these were in overseas Tests, including the game in Melbourne and the next one in Adelaide, when he turned in an outstanding all-round performance, taking six wickets and scoring 52 and 123. At the time it was only the 12th instance of a player scoring 150 or more and taking six or more wickets in a Test."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/457149.html

Akram is one of the few players to have scored 100 and taken a 5 fiver in the same innings. Simply, his MOM to match ratio 17:104 is astounding. An MOM every 6 matches.

One thing though, an AR will always win more Man of the series awards than a bowler/batsman. Thats because an AR can have a 1 match winning performance and a couple of important contributions which won't win him an MOM, but would count towards MOS. Thats why despite having more MOMs, he is behind Imran in MOS.

Another astonishing fact while going through AR stats - Ian Botham scored a 100 and took a 5 fiver in an innings 5 times!!!!

 

[Oligochaetes]

Well, by that measure

Ashwin: 7 MOMs in 52 matches, 7 Man of the Series

You are also correct. The criteria is match winner and Ashwin has also done very well.

 

[Robert]

Your best 3 allrounders of all in order as match winners?Sobers on top?Where is Botham,Imran or Miller?

It would be interesting to work out how often a century or a five wicket haul by one of those three champions translated into a team win. One would be inclined to put Imran a bit ahead because he was effective for longer. Of course the great Miller didn't play so many tests as the eighties aces. One other thing to remember is that even after Botham declined, he had a hidden effect as he was still the world's best slip-catcher. On the other hand, England in the second half of his career was a very weak team, no effective bowlers, only able to beat the even weaker Australia.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

It would be interesting to work out how often a century or a five wicket haul by one of those three champions translated into a team win. One would be inclined to put Imran a bit ahead because he was effective for longer. Of course the great Miller didn't play so many tests as the eighties aces. One other thing to remember is that even after Botham declined, he had a hidden effect as he was still the world's best slip-catcher. On the other hand, England in the second half of his career was a very weak team, no effective bowlers, only able to beat the even weaker Australia.

Sobers on top as a match winner?ahead of Imran combining every department of the game in a winning cause?

 

[Saffer_XIII]

Was not Sobers far more flamboyant with the bat and versatile with the ball than Kallis?With both ball and bat together he overshadowed Imran and Botham in single tests and series.

What does flamboyance have to do with winning matches. The guy with the most man of the match performances is a match winner.

 

[Sidilicious]

I did a quick statistical analysis of Imran Khan, Ian Botham, Richard Haddlee, Kapil Dev and Jacques Kallis

Assumptions -
1. A complete AR scores at least 50 runs a test and takes at least 3 wickets a match
2. The above was done on a per match basis and as an average over 10 matches

Following were my findings

Imran Khan
Matches - 88
No. of matches where he took at least 3 wickets and scored at least 50 runs - 14
Out of which were won by his team - 6
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he scored at least 500 runs - 15
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he took at least 30 wickets - 69
Over a period of 10 matches where he did both (took at least 30 wickets and scored at least 500 runs) - 7
With a batting average greater than bowling average - 7

Ian Botham
Matches - 102
No. of matches where he took at least 3 wickets and scored at least 50 runs - 20
Out of which were won by his team - 10
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he scored at least 500 runs - 48
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he took at least 30 wickets - 65
Over a period of 10 matches where he did both (took at least 30 wickets and scored at least 500 runs) - 39
With a batting average greater than bowling average - 32

Richard Haddlee
Matches - 86
No. of matches where he took at least 3 wickets and scored at least 50 runs - 14
Out of which were won by his team - 5
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he scored at least 500 runs - 6
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he took at least 30 wickets - 77
Over a period of 10 matches where he did both (took at least 30 wickets and scored at least 500 runs) - 6
With a batting average greater than bowling average - 6

Kapil Dev
Matches - 131
No. of matches where he took at least 3 wickets and scored at least 50 runs - 16
Out of which were won by his team - 4
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he scored at least 500 runs - 16
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he took at least 30 wickets - 85
Over a period of 10 matches where he did both (took at least 30 wickets and scored at least 500 runs) - 11
With a batting average greater than bowling average - 11

Jacques Kallis
Matches - 166
No. of matches where he took at least 3 wickets and scored at least 50 runs - 19
Out of which were won by his team - 12
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he scored at least 500 runs - 139
Over a period of 10 matches No. of times he took at least 30 wickets - 12
Over a period of 10 matches where he did both (took at least 30 wickets and scored at least 500 runs) - 12
With a batting average greater than bowling average - 12

Will do the same for Sobers and Miller when I get a chance.

From the given stats, whats your conclusion?