What's new

Whom would you rather have in your team - Virat Kohli, Brian Lara or Ricky Ponting?

Hitman

Senior T20I Player
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Runs
17,556
Alright, I didn't include Sachin in the list because it would have definitely messed up this thread. It's between Kohli, Lara and Ponting, 3 of the finest naturally talented batsman I have seen. I didn't include Kallis and Dravid because they were more likely to put the opposition captain fall to sleep during the day rather than keep them awake at night.

If it were between those 3 players, whom would you rather have in your team?
 
Brian Lara no doubt. On their day all can be incredibly destructive but Lara has that something special that neutral fans would pay to watch him. Big runs full of cover drives and square cuts Brian Lara means elegance and entertainment.
 
Kohli, and that by some distance. If I have to watch Lara, I can still watch him on TV, so that's not an issue.
 
In tests: Lara, Ponting, Kohli in that order

In ODIs: Kohli, Ponting, Lara

You had think 140 Plus in a World Cup final would hold a little more weight than all the failures in knockout matches, which as of now Kohli carrying.

Kohli is a great player no doubt but right now he hasn't surpassed Ponting. IMO.

@Thread. Ponting.

Brian Lara is overrated a bit.
 
You had think 140 Plus in a World Cup final would hold a little more weight than all the failures in knockout matches, which as of now Kohli carrying.

Kohli is a great player no doubt but right now he hasn't surpassed Ponting. IMO.

@Thread. Ponting.

Brian Lara is overrated a bit.

140 against a powderpuff bowling attack at altitude in Johannesburg should not overshadow what Kohli has achieved so far in his limited overs career.

Anyone who saw Lara bat in his pomp cannot state he was overrated with good reason. It just comes across as hyperbole.
 
140 against a powderpuff bowling attack at altitude in Johannesburg should not overshadow what Kohli has achieved so far in his limited overs career.

Anyone who saw Lara bat in his pomp cannot state he was overrated with good reason. It just comes across as hyperbole.

I have seen Lara batting when he was at his peak. I grew up watching him and he was my favorite player. But he failed a lot in big series.

Ponting had a wonder career and that was one of his great innings. India was the 2nd best team in that world cup and their bowling performed pretty well in that tournament. "140 against a powderpuff bowling attack at altitude in Johannesburg" that's a very passive way of defining a match wining innings in a world cup final.
 
Ponting
Kohli
Lara

I think Kohli will surpass Lara
 
Both Punter and Lara struggled in India. Ponting avgs 23 and Lara never scored a test century in India (the final frontier).

Kohli scored runs everywhere in the globe.
 
Ponting should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Kohli and Lara. Ponting couldnt buy a run if there was a bit of turn in the pitch and there was quality spin. Would you categorised someone a great batsman who goes to Australia and always struggles against pace and bounce?

Ponting can be compared with Inzimam or Yousuf, not with Kohli and Lara.
 
Both Punter and Lara struggled in India. Ponting avgs 23 and Lara never scored a test century in India (the final frontier).

Kohli scored runs everywhere in the globe.
Agreed. Lara still averaged 35 in India.
Dont know why Ponting always makes the cut for legend players.
 
Ponting should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Kohli and Lara. Ponting couldnt buy a run if there was a bit of turn in the pitch and there was quality spin. Would you categorised someone a great batsman who goes to Australia and always struggles against pace and bounce?

Ponting can be compared with Inzimam or Yousuf, not with Kohli and Lara.

yea Ponting's ghost was scoring runs in Sri Lanka against the best spinner ever...
 
I have seen Lara batting when he was at his peak. I grew up watching him and he was my favorite player. But he failed a lot in big series.

Ponting had a wonder career and that was one of his great innings. India was the 2nd best team in that world cup and their bowling performed pretty well in that tournament. "140 against a powderpuff bowling attack at altitude in Johannesburg" that's a very passive way of defining a match wining innings in a world cup final.

Lara started failing more once Walsh and Ambrose drifted away, you saw the same effect on Ponting's career when McGrath and Warne bid adieu. That 153 not out at Barbados is reason alone for him to be ranked above everyone else, if we are using a single innings as a benchmark for excellence.

Regarding the 140 not out, it was a flat pitch on a small ground. India were overawed as soon as Ganguly won the toss and froze. Forgive me if I don't rate a bowling attack consisting of Zaheer, Srinath, and Nehra as the stuff of dreams. Australia were so far ahead of everyone in that era that it was a joke. Even if Ponting got out (as he should have when he was on 46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGqDUZ6e9cU Australia would still have won.

Be that as it may, Kohli has had a stellar ODI career and I would rate him above everyone apart from Viv.
 
Lara started failing more once Walsh and Ambrose drifted away, you saw the same effect on Ponting's career when McGrath and Warne bid adieu. That 153 not out at Barbados is reason alone for him to be ranked above everyone else, if we are using a single innings as a benchmark for excellence.

Regarding the 140 not out, it was a flat pitch on a small ground. India were overawed as soon as Ganguly won the toss and froze. Forgive me if I don't rate a bowling attack consisting of Zaheer, Srinath, and Nehra as the stuff of dreams. Australia were so far ahead of everyone in that era that it was a joke. Even if Ponting got out (as he should have when he was on 46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGqDUZ6e9cU Australia would still have won.

Be that as it may, Kohli has had a stellar ODI career and I would rate him above everyone apart from Viv.
Bold is factually not correct. He was abysmal against Pakistan (before Wasim, Waqar and even Shoaib) and South Africa. 5-0 of WI in 1995 against Saf with Lara failing in every series was the worst ever performance in such a high profile anticipated series.
 
Lara started failing more once Walsh and Ambrose drifted away, you saw the same effect on Ponting's career when McGrath and Warne bid adieu. That 153 not out at Barbados is reason alone for him to be ranked above everyone else, if we are using a single innings as a benchmark for excellence.

Regarding the 140 not out, it was a flat pitch on a small ground. India were overawed as soon as Ganguly won the toss and froze. Forgive me if I don't rate a bowling attack consisting of Zaheer, Srinath, and Nehra as the stuff of dreams. Australia were so far ahead of everyone in that era that it was a joke. Even if Ponting got out (as he should have when he was on 46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGqDUZ6e9cU Australia would still have won.

Be that as it may, Kohli has had a stellar ODI career and I would rate him above everyone apart from Viv.

Not given out is a moot point. Happens all the time. And with extra bounce at Jo burg we can't be sure that would have hit the stumps or not. Kohli failed to step in 2015 WC and 2017 CT when needed.
 
Bold is factually not correct. He was abysmal against Pakistan (before Wasim, Waqar and even Shoaib) and South Africa. 5-0 of WI in 1995 against Saf with Lara failing in every series was the worst ever performance in such a high profile anticipated series.

You do remember the turmoil that preceded that series right, with the whole team ensconced at Heathrow due to a pay dispute with the board ? Jimmy Adams splicing off his finger with a plastic knife, that whole tour was a farce. His response a couple of months later against the best team in the world says more about him than anything else.

Lara might have failed in 1997, but he did perform against peak Waqar and Wasim during the 1993 series. His record against Wasim, Waqar, and Donald might have been ordinary, but so was Ponting's record in India.
 
The fact that this comparison even arises before Kohli is even 30, is a huge compliment to him.

As for the question, we shall see in the next 3-4 years.
 
yea Ponting's ghost was scoring runs in Sri Lanka against the best spinner ever...
He was fortunate to play on some of the flatest SL pitches. SL was a one bowler team, in the 1990s Wickremasinghe used to open the new ball. Ponting is a class act but does not deserve to be mentioned amongst all time greats.
 
As of now I will take Lara. But by the end of Kohlis career, I will take him without a doubt in my mind.
 
No doubt in my mind, it will be Kohli or Ponting.

Both Lara and SRT were massively overrated in test matches, both were just not consistent enough to score runs through out the series and just didn't win their teams enough matches. Lara after 97-98 until retirement had hardly any impact on test match results.

Ponting as test bat was very consistent.
 
He was fortunate to play on some of the flatest SL pitches. SL was a one bowler team, in the 1990s Wickremasinghe used to open the new ball. Ponting is a class act but does not deserve to be mentioned amongst all time greats.

Yea Chaminda Vaas was averaging 26 in Sri Lanka in some parallel universe
 
He was fortunate to play on some of the flatest SL pitches. SL was a one bowler team, in the 1990s Wickremasinghe used to open the new ball. Ponting is a class act but does not deserve to be mentioned amongst all time greats.

Well SL was a two bowler team with the other bowlers below average.

so within a few minutes SL has gone from a one-bowler team to a two-bowler team when you are presented with evidence :))
 
ODI's: Kohli
T20i's: Kohli
Tests: Lara (even though he underachieved with the potential he had)
 
Lara in Tests and ODIs, he was ranked #1 for 4-5 years in ODIs in the 90s IIRC ahead of Sachin
 
Lara in tests. I found his style of batting quite attractive to watch
 
You do remember the turmoil that preceded that series right, with the whole team ensconced at Heathrow due to a pay dispute with the board ? Jimmy Adams splicing off his finger with a plastic knife, that whole tour was a farce. His response a couple of months later against the best team in the world says more about him than anything else.

Lara might have failed in 1997, but he did perform against peak Waqar and Wasim during the 1993 series. His record against Wasim, Waqar, and Donald might have been ordinary, but so was Ponting's record in India.

He scored 1 50 in three tests. He couldn’t perform against Pakistan and South Africa, neither home nor away. That’s pretty poor. Painting couldn’t perform on IN India.

Pay issues doesn’t mean you don’t perform for your country.
 
so within a few minutes SL has gone from a one-bowler team to a two-bowler team when you are presented with evidence :))
Lol, actually I have an explanation. SL was a one bowler team with Murali. When Vaas came in the side they became a two bowler team :D
 
Ponting should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Kohli and Lara. Ponting couldnt buy a run if there was a bit of turn in the pitch and there was quality spin. Would you categorised someone a great batsman who goes to Australia and always struggles against pace and bounce?

Ponting can be compared with Inzimam or Yousuf
, not with Kohli and Lara.

I would have expected better from someone who has been watching the game since the 92 WC.

Ponting struggled against spin only in India against a particular offie - who also happens to be commentating in the current England v India series on Sky. He averaged 48-49 in SL against the best off spinner in the history of the game, also averaged 100 against Pakistan (in Pak and UAE combined) and 90 odd in Bangladesh. By what definition did he struggle where there was "a bit of turn in the pitch and where there was quality spin"???

Also Ponting is leagues ahead of Inzy and MoYo. The former is a top tier ATG batsman in the league of SRT, Lara, Viv and etc while the Pakistani duo fall short of ATG status primarily because of their mediocre records on bouncy wickets in Aus and SA.
 
Last edited:
In ODIs, Kohli by far and it’s not even close. Ponting over Lara for the second spot.

In tests, longevity and consistency matters the most hence Lara. Ponting being PATHETIC in India over 15 tests means he will NEVER be in a debate for test GOAT. Still I will put him over Kohli at #2 because like I said longevity is THE thing in tests. Kohli with ONLY 6000 runs is a nobody compares to these players who have accumulated 12k runs or so. If Kohli maintains this for another 6-8 years he would beat Ponting for sure and maybe Lara too. He’s a nobody in front of grandpa Sachin, 15,900 runs! What a guy!
 
Tough between Ponting and Kohli.

But I'd take Kohli. And yes, would take him over Tendulkar as well.
 
Kohli only if he can help win this game..
 
He was fortunate to play on some of the flatest SL pitches. SL was a one bowler team, in the 1990s Wickremasinghe used to open the new ball. Ponting is a class act but does not deserve to be mentioned amongst all time greats.

That is not fault of Kohli.

You can compare him with his peers and see where he stands.
 
Kohli - he is already a better ODI player, and he is likely to overtake them in Test cricket as well at this rate. I think he has now surpassed Sachin and Viv as the best modern batsman (last 30-40 years).
 
Ponting should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Kohli and Lara. Ponting couldnt buy a run if there was a bit of turn in the pitch and there was quality spin. Would you categorised someone a great batsman who goes to Australia and always struggles against pace and bounce?

Ponting can be compared with Inzimam or Yousuf, not with Kohli and Lara.

You're kidding, right? Ponting is right up there with the likes of Viv, Sachin and Lara. He is an bonafide ATG. Inzi and Moyo are not even anywhere close to him. It's like comparing Wasim Akram with Brett Lee and Morne Morkel.
 
Kohli - he is already a better ODI player, and he is likely to overtake them in Test cricket as well at this rate. I think he has now surpassed Sachin and Viv as the best modern batsman (last 30-40 years).

With 6k test runs only he has surpassed Tendulkar and Richards already?
 
You had think 140 Plus in a World Cup final would hold a little more weight than all the failures in knockout matches, which as of now Kohli carrying.

Kohli is a great player no doubt but right now he hasn't surpassed Ponting. IMO.

@Thread. Ponting.

Brian Lara is overrated a bit.

Is it also not over-rating to pick a batsman over 1 WC knock over a batsman who is the most consistent ODI batsman of the last 25 years?

You can certainly rate Ponting over Kohli. That's a personal call. But your reasoning is questionable.
 
Has the thread title changed? Previously it asked wh owas the best or am I imagining things.

Anyway, if this is the question then all three would be in the team. Ponting is the only one brave and skilled enough to bat at 3 in all formats, Kohli would come in at 4 and Lara at 5.
 
Has the thread title changed? Previously it asked wh owas the best or am I imagining things.

Anyway, if this is the question then all three would be in the team. Ponting is the only one brave and skilled enough to bat at 3 in all formats, Kohli would come in at 4 and Lara at 5.

Ponting had that luxury because of having one of the greatest opening pairs of all-time in his team- Langer and Hayden. He himself said that these two used to make it a lot easier for the rest of the batsmen.
 
245 odd to chase on a difficult pitch, with 3 wkts down, I would want none of Lara, Pointing or Kohli. My man would be Graeme Smith.
 
Ponting.

Better than Kohli and more of a team man than Lara.
 
Ponting.

Better than Kohli and more of a team man than Lara.

Just for asking, in your opinion, how would you rate SRT, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Sanga and Dravid, in which order?
 
I think the all time great status seems like an easy give away on this forum.
Ponting being compared to Viv Richards is an insult to Viv.
Inzi and Moyo were not far off Ponting (probably half a level down)
Amongst all the ATG mentioned in this post I agree to Akram, Lara and Tendulkar, And thats about it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think the all time great status seems like an easy give away on this forum.
Ponting being compared to Viv Richards is an insult to Viv.
Inzi and Moyo were not far off Ponting (probably half a level down)
Amongst all the ATG mentioned in this post I agree to Akram, Lara and Tendulkar, And thats about it.

:)) Good if you believe that.
 
Just for asking, in your opinion, how would you rate SRT, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Sanga and Dravid, in which order?

Tendulkar
Ponting
Lara
Dravid
Sangakkara
Kallis
 
:)) Good if you believe that.

Laughable to say that Inzy and Moyo weren't far off Ponting or Ponting isn't even comparable to Viv.

Ponting, to his credit, was the best batsmen of the 2000s decade and one of the top 10-12 greatest batsmen of all-time.
 
:)) Good if you believe that.

Inzi averages 54 in tests, 40 in ODIs
Moyo averages 52 in tests, 42 in ODIs
Ponting averages 52 in tests, 42 in ODIs

Ponting scored more runs overall because he played more games or course. As I said Ponting was half a level up compared to Inzi and Moyo but to say that Inzi and Moyo were no where near Ponting is not right.
Players like Ponting and Sangakkara were class and great players (but not all time great players). Please leave that category to the Imran Khans, the Lilles, the Vivs, the Kapil Devs, and the Gavaskars. And if you want to more recent names than the Akrams, the Laras, the Sachins and the Kohlis. Kallis on his batting alone does is not an ATG but the fact that he was also a bowler hence he also makes the cut for me. Similarly Gilchrist was also an al rounder hence is also an ATG.
 
:)) Good if you believe that.

Funny thing is he's been watching the game for 30 years+ and claimed I had only started watching when IPL was launched back 10 years ago - even if we assume this to be true I still have a far better grasp on how to categorise a player's class.
 
Inzi averages 54 in tests, 40 in ODIs
Moyo averages 52 in tests, 42 in ODIs
Ponting averages 52 in tests, 42 in ODIs

Ponting scored more runs overall because he played more games or course. As I said Ponting was half a level up compared to Inzi and Moyo but to say that Inzi and Moyo were no where near Ponting is not right.
Players like Ponting and Sangakkara were class and great players (but not all time great players). Please leave that category to the Imran Khans, the Lilles, the Vivs, the Kapil Devs, and the Gavaskars. And if you want to more recent names than the Akrams, the Laras, the Sachins and the Kohlis. Kallis on his batting alone does is not an ATG but the fact that he was also a bowler hence he also makes the cut for me. Similarly Gilchrist was also an al rounder hence is also an ATG.

Inzi averages 54 in Test cricket in which universe? He doesn't even average 50. As for Moyo, please have a look at some of his averages -


vs Aus 29

vs SA - 29

vs SL - 29

That's an average of below 30 against 3 Test playing nations, 2 of them (Aus, SA) having the best bowling attacks during his time. Now have a look at some of his averages in different countries -

in Aus - 31

in SA - 26

in Ind - 33

in SL - 33

That's poor performances in 4 Test playing nations. Not even a blind fan will call Inzi or Yousuf being anywhere even remotely close to Ponting. Ponting is one of the greatest batsman of all time.
 
Funny thing is he's been watching the game for 30 years+ and claimed I had only started watching when IPL was launched back 10 years ago - even if we assume this to be true I still have a far better grasp on how to categorise a player's class.

:)) You believe him? The very fact that he says Inzamam averages 54 in Tests is proof enough how long he has been watching cricket.
 
:)) You believe him? The very fact that he says Inzamam averages 54 in Tests is proof enough how long he has been watching cricket.

It certainly does raise suspicions when he doesn't have a clue on Inzy's average but according to him he saw the 92 WC final live. Find that hard to believe.
 
I think the all time great status seems like an easy give away on this forum.
Ponting being compared to Viv Richards is an insult to Viv.
Inzi and Moyo were not far off Ponting (probably half a level down)
Amongst all the ATG mentioned in this post I agree to Akram, Lara and Tendulkar, And thats about it.

I respect your thoughts and agree in theory. Whatever ATG status means to anyone, there can't be too many people at the very top.

I don't tink Ponting comparison is an insult to Viv and Viv himself would feel honoured to be compared to Ponting who was a gun batsman of his generation. Ponting would be teated alongside Tendulkar/Lara if he was not PATHETIC in india over 15 odd tests and didn't have the most dramatic drop of form among the greats.
 
Test: Lara. It is not close. Lara is the best test batsman since Vivi.

ODIs: Ponting in WC KO games. Else VK.
 
Ponting had that luxury because of having one of the greatest opening pairs of all-time in his team- Langer and Hayden. He himself said that these two used to make it a lot easier for the rest of the batsmen.

Of course it made it easier but so what? He still did it. That's like moaning McGrath only had so many wickets because he had two of the all time great keepers to keep for him. Do we discount his weickets? Get outta here with your rubbish.

Lara, Inzy, nowadays Kohli are hiding out till the ball gets old. I will say one thing, apart from a session, India's batting has been so poor that Kohli has had to come in and face the relatively new ball.
 
Ponting.

Better than Kohli and more of a team man than Lara.

I won't disagree with this reasoning at all. Ponting was the consummate team man, whereas Lara was an egoist whose self-interest hampered the team on a few occasions, particularly during the period when he was hankering for the captaincy after Richie Richardson retired after the 96 World Cup.

But in terms of pure ability and being able to win the match on his own, Lara was way ahead of everyone else.

Personally, I'd forgive a lot of his misdemeanours just to see him play one of his booming cover drives again. But then I'm not West Indian and I didn't suffer first hand due to his politicking in the team.

Seeing most of the responses here, it tells you a lot about a poster and how they value certain traits above others. That's a different debate though.
 
Of course it made it easier but so what? He still did it. That's like moaning McGrath only had so many wickets because he had two of the all time great keepers to keep for him. Do we discount his weickets? Get outta here with your rubbish.

Lara, Inzy, nowadays Kohli are hiding out till the ball gets old. I will say one thing, apart from a session, India's batting has been so poor that Kohli has had to come in and face the relatively new ball.

I consider Ponting one of the greatest batsmen of all-time but my point is that him batting at 3 was definitely helped by the two greatest openers who would see of the new balls and made it easier for the rest out there. The fact he batted at 3 isn't enough to say he was better than Lara or Tendulkar or whoever batted at 4 all their career.
 
Test: Lara. It is not close. Lara is the best test batsman since Vivi.

ODIs: Ponting in WC KO games. Else VK.

Why isn't it close ?

Lara was somewhat of a home bully. Don't remember him scoring well against competent attacks abroad with the regularity that Kohli does. In fact he had to wait till Pakistan fielded, arguably it worst test attack in 2006, and a relatively weak Nel/Ntini/Pollock(in his last legs) attack to score a ton in Pak/SA. Good record in Australia against an ATG attack, but half of his hundreds there came in dead rubbers.

Although Kohli has not yet surpassed Lara, Pointing or SRT, he certainly has the potential to do so. Next 3-4 years will be vital.
 
Both Punter and Lara struggled in India. Ponting avgs 23 and Lara never scored a test century in India (the final frontier).

Kohli scored runs everywhere in the globe.

Lara played THREE GAMES in India, and got 91 in his last innings there. Hardly a sample size worth declaring he "struggled".
 
Alright, I didn't include Sachin in the list because it would have definitely messed up this thread. It's between Kohli, Lara and Ponting, 3 of the finest naturally talented batsman I have seen. I didn't include Kallis and Dravid because they were more likely to put the opposition captain fall to sleep during the day rather than keep them awake at night.

If it were between those 3 players, whom would you rather have in your team?

What format?
 
Lara gets lots of hype, I understand he was a great player but his match winning ability has been overblown by everyone. He has played some brilliant innings but for me I will have Virat as my all format batsman in the team. The guy scores runs in all conditions and can play all formats equally good as well.
 
Inzi averages 54 in Test cricket in which universe? He doesn't even average 50. As for Moyo, please have a look at some of his averages -


vs Aus 29

vs SA - 29

vs SL - 29

That's an average of below 30 against 3 Test playing nations, 2 of them (Aus, SA) having the best bowling attacks during his time. Now have a look at some of his averages in different countries -

in Aus - 31

in SA - 26

in Ind - 33

in SL - 33

That's poor performances in 4 Test playing nations. Not even a blind fan will call Inzi or Yousuf being anywhere even remotely close to Ponting. Ponting is one of the greatest batsman of all time.

Not to forget in crisis, he would be the last man you would think of picking in the team. That 52 average is as highly misleading as it gets. Quite similar to Hashim Amla's ODI average of 50.
 
Back
Top