Why Bangladesh vs Pakistan never became the rivalry it was meant to be?

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Religion mattered only to the point that physical appearances was not an obstacle. West Pakistanis thought bangladeshis were an inferior species, read some of the language used at the time to describe your people. They couldn't bear the thought of being ruled over by bengalis.

I think the racism card gets overplayed by Indians understandably. The real point of conflict was Bangalis didn't want to accept Urdu as the national language,maybe they saw no need of it when they had their own language which was more important to them.

 

[Varun]

I think the racism card gets overplayed by Indians understandably. The real point of conflict was Bangalis didn't want to accept Urdu as the national language,maybe they saw no need of it when they had their own language which was more important to them.

Leaving them hanging when they got whacked by the cyclone of the century (Bhola, 1970) wasn't a good move either.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I think the racism card gets overplayed by Indians understandably. The real point of conflict was Bangalis didn't want to accept Urdu as the national language,maybe they saw no need of it when they had their own language which was more important to them.

It is strange, because even in West Pakistan, Urdu was not a native language and only a minority spoke it.

It just happened that the minority was elite, and the sub altern majority accepted the language imposition, while the East Pakistanis rejected it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Leaving them hanging when they got whacked by the cyclone of the century (Bhola, 1970) wasn't a good move on your part either.

As a neutral Brit I have no idea about any cyclone in in 1970 so not really on my part at all. I am just chipping in with what I have read up on the conflict recently.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It is strange, because even in West Pakistan, Urdu was not a native language and only a minority spoke it.

It just happened that the minority was elite, and the sub altern majority accepted the language imposition, while the East Pakistanis rejected it.

In West Pakistan, punjabi language has been more or less wiped out, so I guess you could say the Bangladeshi objections have been justified. I don't think Punjabi was taught at all, it is spoken only, and even that will die out eventually as in the cities the trend is for parents to speak to their kids in Urdu in an effort to make them sound more sophisticated.

But Urdu is a unifying language, because it is based on Hindi, it is understood across most of the subcontinent from Bangladesh to Afghanistan. So definitely has it's positives.

 

[RexRex]

I think the racism card gets overplayed by Indians understandably. The real point of conflict was Bangalis didn't want to accept Urdu as the national language,maybe they saw no need of it when they had their own language which was more important to them.

I don't think so. If you read about the horrible stuff that the Pak establishment did to their fellow countrymen bangalis, it's the kind of behaviour that I suspect gets triggered by deep racial animus. Urdu was a factor but not the defining one imo. India had its language wars too in the 1960s but it got resolved eventually.

 

[CricketCartoons]

In West Pakistan, punjabi language has been more or less wiped out, so I guess you could say the Bangladeshi objections have been justified. I don't think Punjabi was taught at all, it is spoken only, and even that will die out eventually as in the cities the trend is for parents to speak to their kids in Urdu in an effort to make them sound more sophisticated.

But Urdu is a unifying language, because it is based on Hindi, it is understood across most of the subcontinent from Bangladesh to Afghanistan. So definitely has it's positives.

Was punjabi language wiped out already in 1947 or it happened after the imposition of Urdu?

Why do you need a unifying language, when you have the most potent unifier known to mankind:Islam?

When a language is imposed on a community, their intelligence takes a hit. Babar Azam may be the wittiest in his mother tongue, but sounds like a sub 50 IQ person when he speaks in English. This is what a forced language does to you. It robs you of your personality and makes you appear dumb. While creating a parallel class of citizens who sound intelligent and expressive because they have the advantage of that language.

 

[Bhaijaan]

In West Pakistan, punjabi language has been more or less wiped out, so I guess you could say the Bangladeshi objections have been justified. I don't think Punjabi was taught at all, it is spoken only, and even that will die out eventually as in the cities the trend is for parents to speak to their kids in Urdu in an effort to make them sound more sophisticated.

But Urdu is a unifying language, because it is based on Hindi, it is understood across most of the subcontinent from Bangladesh to Afghanistan. So definitely has it's positives.

Urdu is a language of extreme grace.
Always love it when in Bollywood movies they show Pakistani characters and they’re always so respectable and talk to each other like Abbu jaan aap
Humare liye tohfa nahi laaye or Janab taqallluf na karein , Salamwalekum bhaijaan aaj khaala jaan me biryani banayi hae zuroor khaaana

 

[CricketCartoons]

Urdu is a language of extreme grace.
Always love it when in Bollywood movies they show Pakistani characters and they’re always so respectable and talk to each other like Abbu jaan aap
Humare liye tohfa nahi laaye or Janab taqallluf na karein , Salamwalekum bhaijaan aaj khaala jaan me biryani banayi hae zuroor khaaana

The grace you see in Urdu is because of farsi loan words. Take out farsi and urdu sounds like a street language. If you want to praise, then do it to Farsi.

PS: I am a pro Irani and love everything about Iran/Persia.

 

[sweep_shot]

43 runs in one over is pretty damning, even for street cricket.

I don't fault Varun for doubting the reach of your limbs.

It was just one bad game. LOL.

I have gotten a 5-fer once.

8-0-43-5.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The grace you see in Urdu is because of farsi loan words. Take out farsi and urdu sounds like a street language. If you want to praise, then do it to Farsi.

PS: I am a pro Irani and love everything about Iran/Persia.

@gani999 Urdu is a poor language lol

 

[CricketCartoons]

@gani999 Urdu is a poor language lol

No, urdu minus farsi is a poor language. Urdu is beautiful because of its Farsi character.

Nothing wrong in loaning vocabulary of another language. This is how languages grow.

 

[sweep_shot]

No, urdu minus farsi is a poor language. Urdu is beautiful because of its Farsi character.

Nothing wrong in loaning vocabulary of another language. This is how languages grow.

I believe Bangla/Bengali also has many Farsi words.

Source: https://sarwarulrizvi.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/common-words-in-persian-farsi-فارسی-and-bengali-বাংলা/.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I believe Bangla/Bengali also has many Farsi words.

Source: https://sarwarulrizvi.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/common-words-in-persian-farsi-فارسی-and-bengali-বাংলা/.

Urdu copied Farsi words AS IS.
Bangla had bit of vowel envy, so changed "a" to "o", the favourite vowel of bengalis, and created new words out of Farsi.

My mother tongue also has some Farsi words. I was not aware of my diction, till an urdu speaker said your urdu pronunctions are correct, unlike the hindi speakers, who turn Z to J, GH to G, PH to F and so on.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't think so. If you read about the horrible stuff that the Pak establishment did to their fellow countrymen bangalis, it's the kind of behaviour that I suspect gets triggered by deep racial animus. Urdu was a factor but not the defining one imo. India had its language wars too in the 1960s but it got resolved eventually.

Bangalis were also doing it to their own depending on which side they were on, war turns people into animals. I still think the racism card gets overplayed, if you follow the narrative of posters over the last week on here you would assume the only racists in the world were Arabs and Pakistanis. I'm sure there might be good reason for that...

Anyway, we can definitely agree that the Bangladesh war was a timely correction to the Two Nation theory. It is now Three Nations, and who knows how many it will be in 50 years time.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Those aren't the ones I meant. Indian Punjabis get a love of love in Pakistan for example.

Anyway the people you have described are preferable to people who when asked "are you Indian" says no. Or when asked are you Hindu denies it and says play the ball not the man.

well I can't help your comprehension issues. guess being believer, you have to blame your maker for that.

Let me help you out anyway. No I'm not a hindu and no I'm not an Indian citizen.

I was more than happy to discuss all religions and their idio(syncra)cy, alas someone too weak stomached for that.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Agreed that when Khalistan is shortly freed their behaviour when overseas will no longer impact you.

good luck with that.

so far Khalistan sponsors have been better at rigging internal elections and throwing their former Pm's in jail/exile than anything else.

Interestingly there seem to have a lot of fantasy wishes on pp. i want to say childlike, probably more like childish

 

[gani999]

@gani999 Urdu is a poor language lol

I think you tagged me there because I started the Urdu Shayari Appreciation Thread.

Every language on earth has come about because of the development of human civilization and the desire of human beings to improve their lives through communication. There can be nothing poor or ugly about this basic human desire.

I think all languages are beautiful, as are the people who created them.

And I don't think languages should be associated with religion. All languages belong to all of mankind.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I think you tagged me there because I started the Urdu Shayari Appreciation Thread.

Every language on earth has come about because of the development of human civilization and the desire of human beings to improve their lives through communication. There can be nothing poor or ugly about this basic human desire.

I think all languages are beautiful, as are the people who created them.

And I don't think languages should be associated with religion. All languages belong to all of mankind.

I would not disagree with the statement that all languages are beautiful. To the person who speaks his mother tongue, that language is always beautiful. I have a non hindi mother tongue, and when I meet someone who shares the tongue, it makes me instant friends with them.

But I oppose it when I see special praise being reserved for Urdu. If all languages are beautiful, how is Urdu any special?

Especially when its script is borrowed, its vocabulary is borrowed and its grammar is borrowed.

 

[gani999]

I would not disagree with the statement that all languages are beautiful. To the person who speaks his mother tongue, that language is always beautiful. I have a non hindi mother tongue, and when I meet someone who shares the tongue, it makes me instant friends with them.

But I oppose it when I see special praise being reserved for Urdu. If all languages are beautiful, how is Urdu any special?

Especially when its script is borrowed, its vocabulary is borrowed and its grammar is borrowed.

Absolutely. Even I oppose any special status or praise to any language in particular. All languages are worthy of equal praise.
I like poetry in all languages, and love Urdu shayari as much as Hindi, English or any other poetry. I wish I could appreciate Bengali poetry as well, but sadly, I don't speak the language.

 

[Devadwal]

Is Bangladesh not worth anyone’s time for rivalry sake?

This is the answer .they are not worthy for any rivalry .