Why can't the Kashmir issue be resolved?

[Saj]

I've been asked this question by many non-Pakistanis and non-Indians and thought I would put it here for discussion.

What is stopping the Kashmir issue from being resolved and why can't it be sorted out?

 

[GBK_Fan]

Talking from a personal perspective I would have been sympathetic to the cause if the separatists had not done the following:
- deny the right of partition refugees who fled to Kashmir. Remember they were denied only because of their religion, they had no issues welcoming the Rohingya refugees
- deny the right of the sanitation workers in the valley just because of their religion
- violently exterminate the Hindu minority living amongst them and then even deny that the atrocity even happened or take any confidence building measures to ensure their return
- violently oppose anyone amongst them supportive of India.
- perpetuate terrorism in the rest of the country

For now, I refuse to see how we will allow them to secede. Not at a huge humanitarian cost for all involved. The simpler thing will be for the ones who refuse to embrace India migrate to the land of their choice

 

[sjahmed23]

It won't get resolved because India's current government has nefarious plans to make hindus dominant in the region.

 

[Kroll]

No side wants to give an inch.

 

[rhony]

The best solution I heard so far was from a Pakistani expert recently on a Pak channel. It was tough to comprehend the language entirely but was on these lines. Pak will absorb Gilgit for CPEC reasons and India will take Ladakh.
Jammu, Kashmir valley, AJK will form one autonomous region handled by Kashmiris under the supervision of a combined leadership of UN, Pak and India. I might be off a bit because of language comprehension issues. Could have been a long term solution and the best possible one. However, now it's not possible. Article 370 repeal and J&K UT status shows India has decided that there is no future in the settlement. That's probably because of asymmetric economic situation in both countries. Also, the mistrust that Kashmiris will settle for this permenantly and not ask for more. There is no guarantee that Jihadis will not want Ladakh. There is no guarantee that majority hindus in Jammu will not be killed or kicked out like Pandits were. Also, Kashmir on both sides is a buffer zone for both countries in case of an armed conflict. The current situation will exist for a long time. However, there are chances that India might escalate the situation by going for Gilgit. It will be many years before that happens and a lot of things need to be in place. So yes, there will never be a solution acceptable to both parties.

 

[satheesh]

because, for India it is not an issue at all because of Kashmir being part of India for long 72 years.
Pakistan can't accept that fact and hence create unnecessary issues.

 

[Major]

When partition happened, there were lots of lands that were not given to Pakistan due to british and indian corruption. Alot of land alot places were to be included with pakistan nut they were not
For example ferozepur, it was supose to go to Pakistan and had it been rightfully given, maybe my family wouldnt had migrated and left behind there assets.

Thus, than the land we did get at the end, the indians even lay claim to it.

Kashmir was not the only disputed area, there was junagadh aswell just like kashmir.

Junagadh was the exact situation but this time a ruler who wanted to seced to pakistan but a hindu majority.

The indians occupied junagadh, hence the problem with pakistan is that they dont want to give out more land. Its enough.


India on the other hand, they believe that whole pakistan is theres. Even if article 370 is removed and pakistan leaves that kashmir issue that india has occupied, there will never be friendship between the two countries
india always want to capture whole of Pakistan, thats how they think. I used to yhink it was only kashmir issue but then rrcently i read how there mps want gilgat ,how they lay claim to other land, how they treated us when dealing with junagadh issue, these guys will keep on creating trouble.


If india stops, if india stops laying claim to whole subcontinent only then there could be peace.
Even some indian posters here also believe in akhand bharat but wont admit it on the forum as they dont want backlash
The likes of cricketjoshila might even say, well US took land from the natives hence what we did was nothing worse. We were living here wayyyy before and deserve to take back whats ours

 

[Pakistanian]

Cause India is a hegemonic power that doesn't want a democratic solution for Kashmir.

 

[Birdman]

Cause India is a hegemonic power that doesn't want a democratic solution for Kashmir.

A country cannot have all decisions go on a ballot, if that’s a case majority will have their way and minorities will be marginalized and mob rule will ensure. Indians elects leaders to make decision according to the constitution and law of the land.

 

[Pakistanian]

A country cannot have all decisions go on a ballot, if that’s a case majority will have their way and minorities will be marginalized and mob rule will ensure. Indians elects leaders to make decision according to the constitution and law of the land.

Not every matter but when it comes to autonomy, making decisions that will affect the entire state then it must be put to a ballot allowing the people the vote, in cases where there isn't referendum on such matters you let the legislative assembly vote on the matter but in the case of Jammu & Kashmir, India dismissed their assembly and imposed Presidents-rule - some dude in New Delhi made this decision on behalf of a whole state bypassing the democratic process.

 

[GBK_Fan]

When partition happened, there were lots of lands that were not given to Pakistan due to british and indian corruption. Alot of land alot places were to be included with pakistan nut they were not
For example ferozepur, it was supose to go to Pakistan and had it been rightfully given, maybe my family wouldnt had migrated and left behind there assets.

Thus, than the land we did get at the end, the indians even lay claim to it.

Kashmir was not the only disputed area, there was junagadh aswell just like kashmir.

Junagadh was the exact situation but this time a ruler who wanted to seced to pakistan but a hindu majority.

The indians occupied junagadh, hence the problem with pakistan is that they dont want to give out more land. Its enough.


India on the other hand, they believe that whole pakistan is theres. Even if article 370 is removed and pakistan leaves that kashmir issue that india has occupied, there will never be friendship between the two countries
india always want to capture whole of Pakistan, thats how they think. I used to yhink it was only kashmir issue but then rrcently i read how there mps want gilgat ,how they lay claim to other land, how they treated us when dealing with junagadh issue, these guys will keep on creating trouble.


If india stops, if india stops laying claim to whole subcontinent only then there could be peace.
Even some indian posters here also believe in akhand bharat but wont admit it on the forum as they dont want backlash
The likes of cricketjoshila might even say, well US took land from the natives hence what we did was nothing worse. We were living here wayyyy before and deserve to take back whats ours

There is little to no mainstream interest in overtaking all of Pakistan. The Akhand Bharat believers are similar to the Ghazwa Hind fanatics. Few of them exist and no one takes them seriously.

The ratcheting up of rtheoric in India is to put Pakistan on the back foot. IK and countless before him have always talked nuclear war whenever India has taken any action against the terrorists. Now that we say India won’t abide by no first use, it causes a panic next door. How is it ok for you to threaten nuclear war and not for us? You talk about freeing Kashmir we talk about Balochistan and Gilgit. Doesn’t mean it will happen but it’s a far more aggressive negotiating position, pushing you to settle for the status quo.

When the sensible guys engaged Pakistan, you gave them Kargil and the Mumbai attacks. Deal with the crazies now

 

[mustang]

There is little to no mainstream interest in overtaking all of Pakistan. The Akhand Bharat believers are similar to the Ghazwa Hind fanatics. Few of them exist and no one takes them seriously.

The ratcheting up of rtheoric in India is to put Pakistan on the back foot. IK and countless before him have always talked nuclear war whenever India has taken any action against the terrorists. Now that we say India won’t abide by no first use, it causes a panic next door. How is it ok for you to threaten nuclear war and not for us? You talk about freeing Kashmir we talk about Balochistan and Gilgit. Doesn’t mean it will happen but it’s a far more aggressive negotiating position, pushing you to settle for the status quo.

When the sensible guys engaged Pakistan, you gave them Kargil and the Mumbai attacks. Deal with the crazies now

Pretty powerful statement there!

 

[RajBan]

There is little to no mainstream interest in overtaking all of Pakistan. The Akhand Bharat believers are similar to the Ghazwa Hind fanatics. Few of them exist and no one takes them seriously.

The ratcheting up of rtheoric in India is to put Pakistan on the back foot. IK and countless before him have always talked nuclear war whenever India has taken any action against the terrorists. Now that we say India won’t abide by no first use, it causes a panic next door. How is it ok for you to threaten nuclear war and not for us? You talk about freeing Kashmir we talk about Balochistan and Gilgit. Doesn’t mean it will happen but it’s a far more aggressive negotiating position, pushing you to settle for the status quo.

When the sensible guys engaged Pakistan, you gave them Kargil and the Mumbai attacks. Deal with the crazies now

This last statement is an interesting comment. Modi and Shah are playing by the same rulebook which Pakistani establishment are great in playing at spreading across multiple dimensions. Some of the anguish hence is because they have found the competition tough now as opposed to the previous Indian governments where they used to make fool of them or avoid any damages depending on circumstances.

While one can criticize Modi for many right reasons, he is not much different than what Pakistani establishment have been all these years. If Modi would have been a Pakistani , he would have received god like status across civilian and military spheres.

 

[ARK Rafay]

When partition happened, there were lots of lands that were not given to Pakistan due to british and indian corruption. Alot of land alot places were to be included with pakistan nut they were not
For example ferozepur, it was supose to go to Pakistan and had it been rightfully given, maybe my family wouldnt had migrated and left behind there assets.

Thus, than the land we did get at the end, the indians even lay claim to it.

Kashmir was not the only disputed area, there was junagadh aswell just like kashmir.

Junagadh was the exact situation but this time a ruler who wanted to seced to pakistan but a hindu majority.

The indians occupied junagadh, hence the problem with pakistan is that they dont want to give out more land. Its enough.


India on the other hand, they believe that whole pakistan is theres. Even if article 370 is removed and pakistan leaves that kashmir issue that india has occupied, there will never be friendship between the two countries
india always want to capture whole of Pakistan, thats how they think. I used to yhink it was only kashmir issue but then rrcently i read how there mps want gilgat ,how they lay claim to other land, how they treated us when dealing with junagadh issue, these guys will keep on creating trouble.


If india stops, if india stops laying claim to whole subcontinent only then there could be peace.
Even some indian posters here also believe in akhand bharat but wont admit it on the forum as they dont want backlash
The likes of cricketjoshila might even say, well US took land from the natives hence what we did was nothing worse. We were living here wayyyy before and deserve to take back whats ours

Exactly. What makes people think that India will stop after taking Kashmir. They genuine Hindus hate Muslims and will go to any extent given a chance to remove Muslims.

 

[Tiger96]

Exactly. What makes people think that India will stop after taking Kashmir. They genuine Hindus hate Muslims and will go to any extent given a chance to remove Muslims.

Muslims also hate Hindus and consider them impure infidels/Kaffirs who are destined to burn in hellfire.

You are talking as if Muslims have a lot of love for Hindooos.

 

[Zahid87]

Exactly. What makes people think that India will stop after taking Kashmir. They genuine Hindus hate Muslims and will go to any extent given a chance to remove Muslims.

The right-wing Hindu thinks exactly the same way. That give Kashmir away, and Pakistan won't stop till it claims the whole of India.

The whole problem is that neither country is mature enough to come to the conclusion that the status quo is the only solution.

Maximalist positions from either side will never be realised. What incentive does India have to give up its portion of Kashmir? What incentive does Pakistan have to give up its share? Absolutely none.

India have already invested 72 years in paying to hold what they currently have, despite the human cost involved. Why give that up now...in fact the longer they hold it, the more difficult it becomes to let go, because of how much has been spent to keep it.

To be honest, India has only started speaking about AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan now, and that seems to be only for the sake of rhetoric, or maybe because they have a loony BJP government.

I think most level headed Indians know AJK, Gilgit-Baltistan, and Aksai-Chin are lost to them, but they won't admit this officially until there is a settlement.

Pakistan needs an honorable way out to accept the status quo, because the people still haven't let go of the idea that the whole of Kashmir will join Pakistan. Not sure what that honourable way out is...or if any leader has the political capital to do it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

When partition happened, there were lots of lands that were not given to Pakistan due to british and indian corruption. Alot of land alot places were to be included with pakistan nut they were not
For example ferozepur, it was supose to go to Pakistan and had it been rightfully given, maybe my family wouldnt had migrated and left behind there assets.

Thus, than the land we did get at the end, the indians even lay claim to it.

Kashmir was not the only disputed area, there was junagadh aswell just like kashmir.

Junagadh was the exact situation but this time a ruler who wanted to seced to pakistan but a hindu majority.

The indians occupied junagadh, hence the problem with pakistan is that they dont want to give out more land. Its enough.


India on the other hand, they believe that whole pakistan is theres. Even if article 370 is removed and pakistan leaves that kashmir issue that india has occupied, there will never be friendship between the two countries
india always want to capture whole of Pakistan, thats how they think. I used to yhink it was only kashmir issue but then rrcently i read how there mps want gilgat ,how they lay claim to other land, how they treated us when dealing with junagadh issue, these guys will keep on creating trouble.


If india stops, if india stops laying claim to whole subcontinent only then there could be peace.
Even some indian posters here also believe in akhand bharat but wont admit it on the forum as they dont want backlash
The likes of cricketjoshila might even say, well US took land from the natives hence what we did was nothing worse. We were living here wayyyy before and deserve to take back whats ours

Lol. Shahrukh and his imaginations.

 

[Ram Shekhar]

Don't know about others but I want humanity is subcontinent to prosper. If Kashmiris need independence, let them have it. If Kashmiris want Pakistan, let them join it. Let's not write their story for them. Let them be the authors of their stories #SecularIndian

 

[Romali_rotti]

@ SAJ,

Everything will be ok if Pakistan drops its paranoia about India cutting off the water supplies from Indian Kashmir. If Pakistan can stop terrorism from operating against India, India would not even think about cutting off the water supply from the 3 rivers, Pakistan will have all the water they want, Indians will be happy, Kashmiris will be happy as Indian army would not need to be there...


What do you think ? Possible ?

 

[Last Monetarist]

The best solution I heard so far was from a Pakistani expert recently on a Pak channel. It was tough to comprehend the language entirely but was on these lines. Pak will absorb Gilgit for CPEC reasons and India will take Ladakh.
Jammu, Kashmir valley, AJK will form one autonomous region handled by Kashmiris under the supervision of a combined leadership of UN, Pak and India. I might be off a bit because of language comprehension issues. Could have been a long term solution and the best possible one. However, now it's not possible. Article 370 repeal and J&K UT status shows India has decided that there is no future in the settlement. That's probably because of asymmetric economic situation in both countries. Also, the mistrust that Kashmiris will settle for this permenantly and not ask for more. There is no guarantee that Jihadis will not want Ladakh. There is no guarantee that majority hindus in Jammu will not be killed or kicked out like Pandits were. Also, Kashmir on both sides is a buffer zone for both countries in case of an armed conflict. The current situation will exist for a long time. However, there are chances that India might escalate the situation by going for Gilgit. It will be many years before that happens and a lot of things need to be in place. So yes, there will never be a solution acceptable to both parties.

Nuclear war will break out if that scenario ever comes to pass. Only a complete muppet will decide to go down that asinine route.

The only pragmatic solution is for both parties to accept the status quo and sign up to the LoC as the formal border between the two countries. Of course, there are vested interests on both sides of the frontier with no interest in that happening. So innocent people will continue to suffer as they are worthless collateral in this squalid land dispute.

 

[Zahid87]

Nuclear war will break out if that scenario ever comes to pass. Only a complete muppet will decide to go down that asinine route.

The only pragmatic solution is for both parties to accept the status quo and sign up to the LoC as the formal border between the two countries. Of course, there are vested interests on both sides of the frontier with no interest in that happening. So innocent people will continue to suffer as they are worthless collateral in this squalid land dispute.

India wouldn't be stupid enough to do it.

They are struggling as it is with the valley - why would they ever try and add more people who have no interest in joining them to the mix.

People here live in their own little Playstation world, where they think countries can just go ahead and conquer territory like the middle ages.

The population of IOK is what, 7m? They can't subjugate them after 72 years of trying. And then people think that India will one day decide to invade Pakistan, and be able to subjugate 220m people. It is utter stupidity.

It cannot happen anymore. Times have changed. Populations have exploded.

Neither country will ever willingly cede territory they already hold. Musharraf had it right...borders cannot be redrawn. Either you accept the line as it is, or, if you care a jot about the people, allow both parts some autonomy, like the Musharraf formula.

What India has done has basically formalises the former - accepting the LoC. They have paid lip service to including AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan, but by annexing what they hold, they gave pretty much let go of them.

This is hard for Pakistan to sell to its population. That's why IK has decided to go in all guns blazing. But, in 6 months time, Pakistan will do the same, and formally include AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan as part of Pakistan, and we will all go on with our lives.

 

[Last Monetarist]

India wouldn't be stupid enough to do it.

They are struggling as it is with the valley - why would they ever try and add more people who have no interest in joining them to the mix.

People here live in their own little Playstation world, where they think countries can just go ahead and conquer territory like the middle ages.

The population of IOK is what, 7m? They can't subjugate them after 72 years of trying. And then people think that India will one day decide to invade Pakistan, and be able to subjugate 220m people. It is utter stupidity.

It cannot happen anymore. Times have changed. Populations have exploded.

Neither country will ever willingly cede territory they already hold. Musharraf had it right...borders cannot be redrawn. Either you accept the line as it is, or, if you care a jot about the people, allow both parts some autonomy, like the Musharraf formula.

What India has done has basically formalises the former - accepting the LoC. They have paid lip service to including AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan, but by annexing what they hold, they gave pretty much let go of them.

This is hard for Pakistan to sell to its population. That's why IK has decided to go in all guns blazing. But, in 6 months time, Pakistan will do the same, and formally include AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan as part of Pakistan, and we will all go on with our lives.

I strongly suspect you are completely correct in this surmise, and if it comes off peacefully, the subcontinent will be thankful to the BJP for generations to come.

The general public in both countries is delusional, which is why populists such as Imran or Modi find it so easy to influence opinion.

There is no appetite anywhere (save Russia perhaps) to redraw the maps and tinker with frontiers, so there is less support for Pakistan's claim than there ever has been over the course of the last 70 years. Imran's deranged and embarrassing tweets about genocide and ethnic cleansing are only serving to underscore that this country is a basketcase when it comes to international diplomacy.

 

[Birdman]

India wouldn't be stupid enough to do it.

They are struggling as it is with the valley - why would they ever try and add more people who have no interest in joining them to the mix.

People here live in their own little Playstation world, where they think countries can just go ahead and conquer territory like the middle ages.

The population of IOK is what, 7m? They can't subjugate them after 72 years of trying. And then people think that India will one day decide to invade Pakistan, and be able to subjugate 220m people. It is utter stupidity.

It cannot happen anymore. Times have changed. Populations have exploded.

Neither country will ever willingly cede territory they already hold. Musharraf had it right...borders cannot be redrawn. Either you accept the line as it is, or, if you care a jot about the people, allow both parts some autonomy, like the Musharraf formula.

What India has done has basically formalises the former - accepting the LoC. They have paid lip service to including AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan, but by annexing what they hold, they gave pretty much let go of them.

This is hard for Pakistan to sell to its population. That's why IK has decided to go in all guns blazing. But, in 6 months time, Pakistan will do the same, and formally include AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan as part of Pakistan, and we will all go on with our lives.

One of the most sensible and realistic post I have seen here on this issue. Unlike bunch of people here who live in their own fantasy you live in real world, good for you.

 

[ARK Rafay]

Muslims also hate Hindus and consider them impure infidels/Kaffirs who are destined to burn in hellfire.

You are talking as if Muslims have a lot of love for Hindooos.

Who said Muslims love hindus? But clearly Pakistan don't have any intentions of something like akhand Pakistan make all subcontinent Muslims and rule over them all.

 

[RajBan]

India wouldn't be stupid enough to do it.

They are struggling as it is with the valley - why would they ever try and add more people who have no interest in joining them to the mix.

People here live in their own little Playstation world, where they think countries can just go ahead and conquer territory like the middle ages.

The population of IOK is what, 7m? They can't subjugate them after 72 years of trying. And then people think that India will one day decide to invade Pakistan, and be able to subjugate 220m people. It is utter stupidity.

It cannot happen anymore. Times have changed. Populations have exploded.

Neither country will ever willingly cede territory they already hold. Musharraf had it right...borders cannot be redrawn. Either you accept the line as it is, or, if you care a jot about the people, allow both parts some autonomy, like the Musharraf formula.

What India has done has basically formalises the former - accepting the LoC. They have paid lip service to including AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan, but by annexing what they hold, they gave pretty much let go of them.

This is hard for Pakistan to sell to its population. That's why IK has decided to go in all guns blazing. But, in 6 months time, Pakistan will do the same, and formally include AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan as part of Pakistan, and we will all go on with our lives.

What you said is the only way forward , atleast in the near future. Bigots on the Indian side will speak ** with respect to AJK and GB. Bigots on the Pakistani side will speak about Jihad. Common man in Kashmir will continue to be gullible and listen to warped political narratives that cater to interests of few. Unfortunately people in the valley who have an alternate political narrative will be brutally suppressed by the status quo forces as their relevance is under serious question with the latest changes.

 

[RajBan]

Don't know about others but I want humanity is subcontinent to prosper. If Kashmiris need independence, let them have it. If Kashmiris want Pakistan, let them join it. Let's not write their story for them. Let them be the authors of their stories #SecularIndian

I also hope the mainstream humanity one day includes the 5 lakh Pandits who are equal sons of the valley but have been evicted from their home after they saw their relatives being brutally murdered just because they have a different religious or political affiliation.

By the way , I don't know what Modi and RSS is actually going to do in valley but since lot of the readers are concerned with the potentially forced demography change of valley, you should know what happened in 90s to eliminate the Hindu and Sikh population to change the demography with common man remaining mum and at times usurping the land and property that lied idle thereafter.

 

[Mamoon]

Two reasons:

(a) Pakistan is incapable of minding its own business

(b) Kashmir is a tool for the Pakistani military establishment to maintain its dominance over the civilian government.

 

[AdamM97]

Two reasons:

(a) Pakistan is incapable of minding its own business

(b) Kashmir is a tool for the Pakistani military establishment to maintain its dominance over the civilian government.

Don’t agree with (a) but you’re right about (b).

Kashmir is a bilateral issue between India and Pakistan, even India says that. How is it none of Pakistan’s business?

 

[Major]

Lol. Shahrukh and his imaginations.

lol joshilla and his blind patriotism.

 

[mustang]

Who said Muslims love hindus? But clearly Pakistan don't have any intentions of something like akhand Pakistan make all subcontinent Muslims and rule over them all.

Ever heard of Ghazwa-e-Hind?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazwa-e-Hind

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ghazwa-e-Hind

 

[sweep_shot]

It can't be resolved because no side is willing to give an inch. They should sit down and have a formal meeting.

 

[troodon]

Hopefully it will be resolved now with the removal of Article 370.

Once Kashmiris start interacting with other Indians more, the bad brainwashing that the Mullahs nave been doing will be exposed. Hope for the better.

 

[Saj]

It can't be resolved because no side is willing to give an inch. They should sit down and have a formal meeting.

And that needs mediation. It seems no other nation wants to take the responsibility of trying to sort the issue out?

 

[rhony]

Nuclear war will break out if that scenario ever comes to pass. Only a complete muppet will decide to go down that asinine route.

The only pragmatic solution is for both parties to accept the status quo and sign up to the LoC as the formal border between the two countries. Of course, there are vested interests on both sides of the frontier with no interest in that happening. So innocent people will continue to suffer as they are worthless collateral in this squalid land dispute.

Not necessarily. Depends on economic status of India, Pakistan, China, USA.

 

[Minnowbasher]

Ever heard of Ghazwa-e-Hind?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazwa-e-Hind

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ghazwa-e-Hind

View attachment 94115

Lol at the non inclusion of bangladesh. Let's be real no Pakistani wants this made up ghazwa e hind nor does any indian want all of Pakistan.
The problem is the mistrust between Pakistan and india. Pakistanis think india want to take us over and india think we are a threat to them.
As for Kashmir imo Pakistan needs to stop emotionally attaching itself to the idea of Kashmir humara hai because it only weakens our case in the security council.
We need to be realise and accept Indian kashmir is indias and there is nothing we can do. Yes we should raise awareness on the horrific human rights violations committed by india but other than that let's sort out our issues first.
The sad reality is we always complain about the bad treatment of Muslims in india yet would any Indian muslim come to pakistan to seek refuge? Not many that I know of.
Let's sort out Pakistan first.
This mindset will automatically tone down tensions and hopefully overtime India stop their human rights violations aswell.
The reality is clear tho
India kashmir will remain India
Pakistani kashmir will remain Pakistan

 

[Tiger96]

Lol at the non inclusion of bangladesh. Let's be real no Pakistani wants this made up ghazwa e hind nor does any indian want all of Pakistan.
The problem is the mistrust between Pakistan and india. Pakistanis think india want to take us over and india think we are a threat to them.
As for Kashmir imo Pakistan needs to stop emotionally attaching itself to the idea of Kashmir humara hai because it only weakens our case in the security council.
We need to be realise and accept Indian kashmir is indias and there is nothing we can do. Yes we should raise awareness on the horrific human rights violations committed by india but other than that let's sort out our issues first.
The sad reality is we always complain about the bad treatment of Muslims in india yet would any Indian muslim come to pakistan to seek refuge? Not many that I know of.
Let's sort out Pakistan first.
This mindset will automatically tone down tensions and hopefully overtime India stop their human rights violations aswell.
The reality is clear tho
India kashmir will remain India
Pakistani kashmir will remain Pakistan

Good Post.
All points well made.

 

[sweep_shot]

And that needs mediation. It seems no other nation wants to take the responsibility of trying to sort the issue out?

I personally do not think mediation would help much. This is a regional issue. Pakistan and India should sit together and find a common ground.

I think best solution would be to have a referendum in Kashmir and let Kashmir people decide what they want to do (a bit like Scottish independence referendum).

 

[ChennaiFan]

Lol at the non inclusion of bangladesh. Let's be real no Pakistani wants this made up ghazwa e hind nor does any indian want all of Pakistan.
The problem is the mistrust between Pakistan and india. Pakistanis think india want to take us over and india think we are a threat to them.
As for Kashmir imo Pakistan needs to stop emotionally attaching itself to the idea of Kashmir humara hai because it only weakens our case in the security council.
We need to be realise and accept Indian kashmir is indias and there is nothing we can do. Yes we should raise awareness on the horrific human rights violations committed by india but other than that let's sort out our issues first.
The sad reality is we always complain about the bad treatment of Muslims in india yet would any Indian muslim come to pakistan to seek refuge? Not many that I know of.
Let's sort out Pakistan first.
This mindset will automatically tone down tensions and hopefully overtime India stop their human rights violations aswell.
The reality is clear tho
India kashmir will remain India
Pakistani kashmir will remain Pakistan

Minnowbasher (BTW, I like the name ) and Zahid87 nailed it.
There is huge mistrust between these two countries. I couldn't believe when I first came to know from one of these forums that some Pakistani's believe India would take over Pakistani if not for Pakistan's army. Knowing Indian population and our leaders, I found it laughable. Except for some RSS nut cases, I don't believe anyone else in India wants to get any Pakistani land.

Coming back to Kashmir issue, it is sad we live in a world where we lose humans for land. One day, the land will be there, we the humans may disappear from the earth. We are one of fragile species.

The short term solution could be to accept LOC as internation border and encourage human intreractions between these two countries. That is the only to way to build up trust. And hope a few generations later people from both the countries laugh at the concept of a border.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Not necessarily. Depends on economic status of India, Pakistan, China, USA.

I normally had you as one of the more sane posters on South Asian politics, but this is a laughably delusional comment. The only way this fantasy scenario comes to pass without nuclear war being triggered is if Pakistan somehow loses control over its military and the provinces have disintegrated into anarchic fiefdoms. Yes, I suppose in that doomsday scenario India can take control of half Pakistan if they so desired.

 

[rhony]

I normally had you as one of the more sane posters on South Asian politics, but this is a laughably delusional comment. The only way this fantasy scenario comes to pass without nuclear war being triggered is if Pakistan somehow loses control over its military and the provinces have disintegrated into anarchic fiefdoms. Yes, I suppose in that doomsday scenario India can take control of half Pakistan if they so desired.

Did anybody expect Pak will not wage a war if India drops bombs inside Pak, if Kashmir is annexed by India. People said these could trigger a nuclear war. It all depends on the circumstances at that time. Gilgit is strategically very important to all three countries. As I said, it requires a lot of moving parts and exceptional circumstances. But India has it's eye on Gilgit and it's true. Will they go for it risking nuclear war? No. However nuclear thresholds keep changing. China can access Indian Ocean through India as well and Can have free movement to Pak through Gilgit still. The economic disparity emboldens countries.