Why did Imran Khan and Ian Botham severely under perform in West Indies compared to Kapil Dev?

[Bhaijaan]

It is worth noting that while the great West Indies reduced Imran and Botham to tailenders literally, Kapil Dev was able to dominate them with the bat.

Kapil's match saving 100 off merely 95 balls against an attacking consisting of Marshal, Roberts, Holding, Garner at Port of Spain in 1982 exceeds by far anything Imran or Botham could ever achieve against the Windies in their den.

Scorecard:-
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...ia-2nd-test-india-tour-of-west-indies-1982-83


To put things into perspective, Imran's highest ever batting score in West Indies is just 47 and Botham's is 38



With the ball the bowlign averages in West Indies are as follows: -

Kapil - 23
Imran - 25
Botham - 39



Against the greatest opponent of their times at their home, Kapil was in a league far ahead of Imran/Botham

Skill aside, Kapil it seems relished challenges and had the heart to overcome the Windies demons.

That Port of Spain knock for instance, that puts some top notch batsmen of his time to shame. Not many batsmen could claim to smash that West Indies at their home for a 95 ball 100.

What a guy Kapil was!

One of the greatest ever cricketers.

 

[saadsahabjee]

Kapil is the greatest allrounder ever , even sobers cant match this freak cricketer.

 

[warcry]

okay then enlighten us the difference between a bowling average of 23 and 25. and you use the word "leagues above"

i see you did not mention kapil dev's batting average away. he averaged 28 in westindies, which is better, but hardly "dominating".

imran khan averaged 21 in west indies which is less. it can be explained that that imran khan was a tailender at the start of his career, especially during his first few tours to west indies.

 

[Fahdi]

Firstly its not as if Imran was pathetic, an average of 25 with the ball is excellent by any standard.

And there doesn't need to be any explanation. Kapil is a legend of the game and one of the main reasons why he is so great is because of his record in West Indies. Why is there a need for an explanation if Kapil outperformed Imran in a specific country? It's not as if the laws of physics were disobeyed and we need scientists to explain what happened.

 

[Buffet]

It is worth noting that while the great West Indies reduced Imran and Botham to tailenders literally, Kapil Dev was able to dominate them with the bat.

Kapil's match saving 100 off merely 95 balls against an attacking consisting of Marshal, Roberts, Holding, Garner at Port of Spain in 1982 exceeds by far anything Imran or Botham could ever achieve against the Windies in their den.

Scorecard:-
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...ia-2nd-test-india-tour-of-west-indies-1982-83


To put things into perspective, Imran's highest ever batting score in West Indies is just 47 and Botham's is 38



With the ball the bowlign averages in West Indies are as follows: -

Kapil - 23
Imran - 25
Botham - 39



Against the greatest opponent of their times at their home, Kapil was in a league far ahead of Imran/Botham

Skill aside, Kapil it seems relished challenges and had the heart to overcome the Windies demons.

That Port of Spain knock for instance, that puts some top notch batsmen of his time to shame. Not many batsmen could claim to smash that West Indies at their home for a 95 ball 100.

What a guy Kapil was!

One of the greatest ever cricketers.

He is ahead, but league far ahead?

 

[gazza619]

Didnt know that. I have nothing but respect for Kapil

 

[Bhaijaan]

A special cricketer without doubt. Stood up against the Windies like a champion. Halted their World Cup winning juggernaut as captain in 1983. Best ever Asian bowler in Australia as well till date. One of the most devastating batsmen in his era when on song. His 175 in 1983 semi final and run a ball 100 at Port of Spain against the famous pace quartet are feats tegeykar batsmen dream of.

All that while carrying the entire burden of mediocre Indian bowling on his lonely shoulders.

 

[Robert]

Botham was not suited to the captaincy but they gave it to him for ten tests in a row against WI and it killed his game, took him out of his zone. It’s the most remarkable collapse in form ever, I think. Then he resigned and boom, a six-wicket haul and 199 runs for once out in the next match. If the captaincy did not affect his cricket, it was the weirdest conincidence.

Then when he went back in 1985/6 he was completely out of shape having fallen under the spell of that manager fellow.

On the batting side I think he used to get out from overconfidence. I saw him get 80 against Marshall-Garner-Holding at Lord’s so he could do it. Just not often enough do do justice to his vast ability.

 

[munda_khi]

A special cricketer without doubt. Stood up against the Windies like a champion. Halted their World Cup winning juggernaut as captain in 1983. Best ever Asian bowler in Australia as well till date. One of the most devastating batsmen in his era when on song. His 175 in 1983 semi final and run a ball 100 at Port of Spain against the famous pace quartet are feats tegeykar batsmen dream of.

All that while carrying the entire burden of mediocre Indian bowling on his lonely shoulders.

just a correction 175 was against Zimbabwe not in semi final. But Kapil Dev was one of the best and there is no doubt about that.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The sudden focus on Kapil Dev might seem like an over kill or an attempt to troll but given the constant condescending tone of many posters here towards Kapil it is important to bring their attention to the remarkable achievements of the lone warrior that Kapil Dev was against the best of the best opponents and at the biggest stages. It gives context to why Kapil was chosen as the greatest Indian cricketer of the 19th century over many remarkable players and why he is a genuine legend of the game and a pure all rounder who excelled with both the bat and the ball.

Some posters are still evidently ****** at mere representation of facts. It is the height of insecurity and the a reflection of how hate and bias has blocked people’s senses from appreciating a great and giving him the respect that r deserves.

People can try their best to put Kapil in the category of Matthew Hoggard or Abdul Razzaq for all they like but the truth is Kapil’s achievements are way more phenomenal and he scores major points over his contemporaries in many crucial aspects of the game that go beyond numbers alone.

I do not recommend evaluating players from a narrow prospective. There are many places he is behind his contemporaries and credit must be given to them wherever it’s due.

Respect great players.

Having favourites does not mean you unfairly put down other great players.

With love.

Bhaijaan.

 

[Junaids]

Imran Khan did not play a single Test in the West Indies between the ages of 24.4 years and 35.7 years.

So that makes a huge difference. The data set is skewed hopelessly by that fact alone.

But then you have to understand that the series that India played in the Caribbean during Kapil Dev’s career were “normal” scoring events while Pakistan and the West Indies played much lower scoring series.

Having said that, Imran’s 7-80 after Tea on Day 1 at Georgetown in 1988 actually won a Test match, which really places him on a much higher plane.

Pakistan lost narrowly 2-1 in the West Indies in 1976-77 - just months after India surrendered there by declaring their second innings at five wickets down. But Imran was just getting towards his peak then.

By 1987-88, Imran had reached that indomitable stage, where he simply would not let his team lose Test series, and they drew 3 consecutive series with the West Indies.

In comparison, India - with Kapil Dev - were massacred in the West Indies in 1982-83 and 1988-89.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Imran Khan did not play a single Test in the West Indies between the ages of 24.4 years and 35.7 years.

So that makes a huge difference. The data set is skewed hopelessly by that fact alone.

But then you have to understand that the series that India played in the Caribbean during Kapil Dev’s career were “normal” scoring events while Pakistan and the West Indies played much lower scoring series.

Having said that, Imran’s 7-80 after Tea on Day 1 at Georgetown in 1988 actually won a Test match, which really places him on a much higher plane.

Pakistan lost narrowly 2-1 in the West Indies in 1976-77 - just months after India surrendered there by declaring their second innings at five wickets down. But Imran was just getting towards his peak then.

By 1987-88, Imran had reached that indomitable stage, where he simply would not let his team lose Test series, and they drew 3 consecutive series with the West Indies.

In comparison, India - with Kapil Dev - were massacred in the West Indies in 1982-83 and 1988-89.

India declared 5 wickets down? They must have had a big lead by then surely?

 

[Junaids]

Kapil Dev was a terrific player, but perhaps I can best explain it like this.

Imran Khan played in a team which was a superpower, with first Sarfraz Nawaz, then Wasim Akram as his partner.

Kapil Dev carried the pace bowling attack of a Test minnow, exactly like Heath Streak did.

Imran was a bowling ATG who had to share the wickets with other great quicks.

Kapil Dev was not quite as good a bowler as Heath Streak, but he was a fine batsman who had one big innings in the West Indies when a Test was fizzling our to a draw and the Windies bowlers had started doing comedy impersonations of Bob Willis and Jeff Thomson to pass the time.

I rate Kapil Dev as India’s greatest ever cricketer, by a long way, but he was nowhere near Imran Khan’s level.

 

[Junaids]

India declared 5 wickets down? They must have had a big lead by then surely?

Lol.

Fourth Test at Kingston, 1975-76

India 306 all out
West Indies 391 all out
India 97-5 declared
West Indies 13-0 to win by ten wickets.

Believe it or not, India declared as a protest against the West Indians bowling too fast.

India was like that in those days.

Just under a year earlier, England scored 334-4 in their 60 overs in the first World Cup.

Sunil Gavaskar then scored 36 not out from 174 balls as India crawled to 132-3 in 60 overs, in protest at one-day cricket being too fast.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Lol.

Fourth Test at Kingston, 1975-76

India 306 all out
West Indies 391 all out
India 97-5 declared
West Indies 13-0 to win by ten wickets.

Believe it or not, India declared as a protest against the West Indians bowling too fast.

India was like that in those days.

Just under a year earlier, England scored 334-4 in their 60 overs in the first World Cup.

Sunil Gavaskar then scored 36 not out from 174 balls as India crawled to 132-3 in 60 overs, in protest at one-day cricket being too fast.

Dear lord.... what!!

India was so scared that they handed the match to Windies!! Wow just wow... who was skipper and was he forcibly retired at the end of the series?

How sad to see Windies in the state they are in now.

 

[Sachin136]

Dear lord.... what!!

India was so scared that they handed the match to Windies!! Wow just wow... who was skipper and was he forcibly retired at the end of the series?

How sad to see Windies in the state they are in now.

I suggest reading up on the actual incident than listening to much of what he says.

https://www.cricketcountry.com/articles/when-clive-lloyd-ordered-india-s-bloodbath-at-jamaica-25636
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2000/oct/05/cricket5

 

[Reverse Sweep]

Hadlee was even better against the Windies than Kapil. Hadlee was the best cricketer of the 1980s

 

[Bilal7]

Kapil Dev was a terrific player, but perhaps I can best explain it like this.

Imran Khan played in a team which was a superpower, with first Sarfraz Nawaz, then Wasim Akram as his partner.

Kapil Dev carried the pace bowling attack of a Test minnow, exactly like Heath Streak did.

Imran was a bowling ATG who had to share the wickets with other great quicks.

Kapil Dev was not quite as good a bowler as Heath Streak, but he was a fine batsman who had one big innings in the West Indies when a Test was fizzling our to a draw and the Windies bowlers had started doing comedy impersonations of Bob Willis and Jeff Thomson to pass the time.

I rate Kapil Dev as India’s greatest ever cricketer, by a long way, but he was nowhere near Imran Khan’s level.

Good analysis. These are quite desperate attempts to turn Kapil from the good cricketer that he was into a great, which he wasn't. A batting average of 31 and a bowling average of 30 are not the numbers of a great cricketer, no matter what he did against any one opposition. Taufeeq Umar averages 60 against South Africa and 70 in South Africa, does that raise his stature in any way? No, he remains a mediocre batsman because his overall numbers are mediocre.

Kapil was not in Imran's league and no amount of cherry-picking will change this perception. Also, Wasim has a better average and better SR than Kapil in Australia, so he's not the best Asian bowler in Australia either.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Kapil is comfortably below Imran, Hadlee and Botham as an allrounder. Cherry picked stats won't improve his stature.

 

[Monsee]

Imran scored 123 at home in 1978 (I think) against WI when our seasoned batsmen were falling like nine pins...that innings is one his best ever because of the quality of the bowling attack: Clark, Croft, Marshall, and Garner!

If Imran had played against them as regularly as Kapil, like Junaids pointed out especially in his prime, his numbers would look much better as well!

 

[gazza619]

Lol.

Fourth Test at Kingston, 1975-76

India 306 all out
West Indies 391 all out
India 97-5 declared
West Indies 13-0 to win by ten wickets.

Believe it or not, India declared as a protest against the West Indians bowling too fast.

India was like that in those days.

Just under a year earlier, England scored 334-4 in their 60 overs in the first World Cup.

Sunil Gavaskar then scored 36 not out from 174 balls as India crawled to 132-3 in 60 overs, in protest at one-day cricket being too fast.

Unbelievable stuff. How times have changed.

 

[Robert]

Lol.

Fourth Test at Kingston, 1975-76

India 306 all out
West Indies 391 all out
India 97-5 declared
West Indies 13-0 to win by ten wickets.

Believe it or not, India declared as a protest against the West Indians bowling too fast.

India was like that in those days.

Steady on [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] old chap. The wicket had got wet, and WI had just sent seven Indians to A&E.

 

[JaDed]

Apparently Kapil Dev is India's greatest cricketer and he is not even as good as Heath Streak , seriously some of the things people say lol.

 

[Junaids]

Apparently Kapil Dev is India's greatest cricketer and he is not even as good as Heath Streak , seriously some of the things people say lol.

I didn’t say that.

I said Kapil Dev wasn’t quite as good a bowler as Heath Streak.

Almost as good a bowler, significantly better batsman.

I’d say Kapil Dev combined the bowling ability of Jacques Kallis with the batting ability of Shaun Pollock.

 

[slipcatch]

C’mon.

Make a better thread.

I think Kohli is better than Tendulkar.

Kohli will be the greatest cricketer India has ever produced.

 

[Oligochaetes]

With the ball the bowlign averages in West Indies are as follows: -

Kapil - 23
Imran - 25

How does a A 2-run bowling average difference translate to "severe" underperformance?

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

A bit of revisionism going on here on PP to make Kapil out to be what he is not.

A very fine cricketer - but below Hadlee and Botham as an all rounder and far below Imran.

No need to revise history - especially as India is a good team now so why feel any complex?

 

[cricketjoshila]

A bit of revisionism going on here on PP to make Kapil out to be what he is not.

A very fine cricketer - but below Hadlee and Botham as an all rounder and far below Imran.

No need to revise history - especially as India is a good team now so why feel any complex?

Kapil was a lesser bowler than Hadlee but a far better batsman. Also Kapil massively out performed Botham againist WI, the best team of their times. Yes Imran was the best among the lot but Kapil was not far below.

Raising Imran to a level which he was not at is the original revisionism on PP.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Kapil Dev was a terrific player, but perhaps I can best explain it like this.

Imran Khan played in a team which was a superpower, with first Sarfraz Nawaz, then Wasim Akram as his partner.

Kapil Dev carried the pace bowling attack of a Test minnow, exactly like Heath Streak did.

Imran was a bowling ATG who had to share the wickets with other great quicks.

Kapil Dev was not quite as good a bowler as Heath Streak, but he was a fine batsman who had one big innings in the West Indies when a Test was fizzling our to a draw and the Windies bowlers had started doing comedy impersonations of Bob Willis and Jeff Thomson to pass the time.

I rate Kapil Dev as India’s greatest ever cricketer, by a long way, but he was nowhere near Imran Khan’s level.

You have surpassed yourself in the record number of lies in one post.

Lol.

Fourth Test at Kingston, 1975-76

India 306 all out
West Indies 391 all out
India 97-5 declared
West Indies 13-0 to win by ten wickets.

Believe it or not, India declared as a protest against the West Indians bowling too fast.

India was like that in those days.

Just under a year earlier, England scored 334-4 in their 60 overs in the first World Cup.

Sunil Gavaskar then scored 36 not out from 174 balls as India crawled to 132-3 in 60 overs, in protest at one-day cricket being too fast.

Will actually do you good to read up a bit of history. Zero understanding, only ignorance.

 

[Shafi]

Kapil use his more intelligence with his talent than Imran and Botham. Waqar was far better bowler than Prasad and Srinath but Prasad/Srinath has more intelligence than Waqar. That's why Waqar is a failure in World Cup compare to many inferior bowlers.

 

[Bilal7]

Kapil was a lesser bowler than Hadlee but a far better batsman. Also Kapil massively out performed Botham againist WI, the best team of their times. Yes Imran was the best among the lot but Kapil was not far below.

Raising Imran to a level which he was not at is the original revisionism on PP.

Imran is the GOAT Asian cricket player. Sachin is joint-second and Kapil is not even in the discussion.

 

[Romali_rotti]

This is Junaids:


Indian players:

- He is not good yo, opposition just let them score runs on them
- He is immature
- He had to beg for county contracts
- They forfieted because the opposition was bowling too fast lol (my personal favourite untrue Junaids fact)



Pakistani Players

- They are the best Yo.
- They would, shouldve, couldve achieved everything yo,


Rational posters:

But whatabout Kapil actually having better stats than Imran in WI ?

Junaids: Read what I think about Indian & Pakistani players above.



Sums up Junaids.. lol , I find him quite fascinating more and more...
-

 

[Junaids]

You have surpassed yourself in the record number of lies in one post.



Will actually do you good to read up a bit of history. Zero understanding, only ignorance.

I actually remember India’s surrender in Jamaica.

It took nearly a week before the WICB could work out whether Bedi - one of my favourites - had declared or just surrendered.

Of the five supposedly injured Indians, three hadn’t been hit at all in the first innings - two of them had hurt their hands dropping catches.

That and Gavaskar’s World Cup 36 not out in 60 overs the year before really ensured that no Indians would be signed up for World Series Cricket by Packer.

India did really well to go from international laughing stocks to World Cup winners in just seven years.

It just needed the Bedi generation to retire.

Exactly the same with Pakistan: a defensive Mushtaq Mohammad cost them dear in the West Indies in 76-77. It took the Imran / Javed generation to add guts to talent.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Imran is the GOAT Asian cricket player. Sachin is joint-second and Kapil is not even in the discussion.

I am not talking about opinion of Bilal7 but of experts.Imran Khan doesnot make it to most All time XIs. GOAT Asian cricketer. Lol. He is joint 3rd with Gavaskar. Tendulkar and Wasim Akram are 1 and 2 respectively.They make it to most World 11s.

 

[Bhaijaan]

How does a A 2-run bowling average difference translate to "severe" underperformance?

For Imran it’s mostly batting. Ian was disappoint both with he bag and ball though.

I’m surprised Imran and Botham we’re not able to do much with the bat against Windies.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I actually remember India’s surrender in Jamaica.

It took nearly a week before the WICB could work out whether Bedi - one of my favourites - had declared or just surrendered.

Of the five supposedly injured Indians, three hadn’t been hit at all in the first innings - two of them had hurt their hands dropping catches.

That and Gavaskar’s World Cup 36 not out in 60 overs the year before really ensured that no Indians would be signed up for World Series Cricket by Packer.

India did really well to go from international laughing stocks to World Cup winners in just seven years.

It just needed the Bedi generation to retire.

Exactly the same with Pakistan: a defensive Mushtaq Mohammad cost them dear in the West Indies in 76-77. It took the Imran / Javed generation to add guts to talent.

Again the lies of JunaidS mean nothing. Post a few credible references.

Regarding WSC, not everyone is up for sale. Some people earn enough in their country that they dont gave to quit playing for it to earn money. Something you wouldnot understand.

 

[Junaids]

Again the lies of JunaidS mean nothing. Post a few credible references.

Regarding WSC, not everyone is up for sale. Some people earn enough in their country that they dont gave to quit playing for it to earn money. Something you wouldnot understand.

The Indian and Pakistani players of the 1970’s were penniless unless they had inherited wealth. Why do you think that Bedi played at Northants and that Dilip Doshi played at Notts?

World Series Cricket’s formula was simple. You only got an offer if Kerry Packer rated you, but it would be an offer that you could not refuse.

 

[Perth93]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION], [MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION].

I'm Indian, age 41, seen test cricket since age 7 in all countries (except Bangladesh), grew up with the fab 4 all-rounders, rational because I've seen history evolve, change, cycle. In fact, my dad saw Worrel, Sobers, Fazal, Benaud, live in Bangladesh (erstwhile East Pak) when HE was in his teens.

Anyone who ranks Kapil over Imran, as a bowler, has not seen cricket until the 90s.
12-165, 7-52, 14-116, 7-80, all away either grow up or read up, or talk to your dad, depending on your current syllabus.

And you're comparing Imran to a trundler like Kapil who never won his team a test (apart from his mediocre 5-28 in McG against a weak Packered Oz team, that too after Ghavri took out the first 3)??

As a batsman, yes, Kapil had Flintoff type skill. Great to watch, but also indredibly underwhelming. And average of 28-29 is really bad, for someone whose bowling used to typically be 35-5-85-3 at best.

 

[Hawkeye]

Hm, so this is interesting.

A bunch of people trying to twist facts in a way to somehow prove Kapil as a better player than Imran and Botham.

Bringing in lies, twisted one dimensional logic to prove (a very fine) cricketer like Kapil anywhere close to ATGs like Imran, Botham is NOT on.

Not only that, you then go on to accuse a very knowledgeable poster like [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] as lying. Hilarious.

Context and actual history needs to be brought in, which Junaids is doing here. Of course, the other side is going to get outraged.

Kapil "leagues above".. LMAO.

Kapil is the greatest IND cricketer, no doubt, but below the likes of Imran, Botham, Hadlee.


Make no mistake - Taufeeq Umar averages far more than Tendulkar, Kohli in South Africa. This does not make him a great.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Imran khan had amazing record in west indies as a bowler alone and won pakistan a test match with the ball.


Kapil didnt feature in even one test win in west indies against west indies and his 35 wickets came in 9 matches as compared to imrans 48 in 8 matches which includes a matchwinning 10 fer.


Not much of a competition i say.

As far as batting is concerned , both average 28.

Yah kapil did play one match saving innings.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Kapil Dev won India their first world cup and played like a living legend so respect.

 

[Swashbuckler]

I actually remember India’s surrender in Jamaica.

It took nearly a week before the WICB could work out whether Bedi - one of my favourites - had declared or just surrendered.

Of the five supposedly injured Indians, three hadn’t been hit at all in the first innings - two of them had hurt their hands dropping catches.

That and Gavaskar’s World Cup 36 not out in 60 overs the year before really ensured that no Indians would be signed up for World Series Cricket by Packer.

India did really well to go from international laughing stocks to World Cup winners in just seven years.

It just needed the Bedi generation to retire.

Exactly the same with Pakistan: a defensive Mushtaq Mohammad cost them dear in the West Indies in 76-77. It took the Imran / Javed generation to add guts to talent.

Bedi was offered the WSC contract, he threw the blank cheque at Packer's face and asked him to F off. He wasn't up for sale like some of his illustrious counterparts, "no bas__rd puts a price tag on me" he said putting the circus in its rightful place. Unfortunately other sellouts didn't have the spine to take a similar stance, of course none of them had either the moral fibre or courage of the Sardar, so unrealistic expectations on my part.

Similarly Gavaskar and Kirmani were offered contracts but Bedi put his foot down. That started the enmity between Bedi and Sunny which continued for many decades. As I said you have no credibility especially when it comes to Indian cricket, you are ill-read, biased and inflexible. So I don't even see any hope for change in you. What happened in Sabina Park in 1976 or the circumstances which resulted in Sunny's 36*, you have no clue and I see no reason to explain. You will never change and your words about Indian cricket will always mean zilch to those who actually seriously follow the sport. But you are on a Pakistani forum, so you will have a few dedicated followers who latch on to your untruths as gospel, so carry on with the bile.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The Indian and Pakistani players of the 1970’s were penniless unless they had inherited wealth. Why do you think that Bedi played at Northants and that Dilip Doshi played at Notts?

World Series Cricket’s formula was simple. You only got an offer if Kerry Packer rated you, but it would be an offer that you could not refuse.

Talk about Pakistani players. Not Indian ones.

Indians like Gavaskar Bedi etc were offered the WSC contract but refused it. As i said, not everyone is up for sale.

County cricket in those days was during off season for rest of the world,so everyone played there.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Some people man...

Pakistan managed to draw series (multiple) against WI. So the legendary West Indians never managed to win series against Imran's team (I can be wrong, correct me) and IK was the MVP; when some cricketer plays similar kind of series (multiple), believe me, I'll be 1st to open random threads here

 

[Junaids]

Kapil Dev won India their first world cup and played like a living legend so respect.

I do respect him, as the GOAT Indian cricketer and the third best Asian cricketer after Imran Khan And Wasim Akram.

India had never had a decent bowler above medium pace before, unless you count Fazal Mahmood.

Suddenly they had a guy who could bat as well as Shaun Pollock or BJ Watling, but could also bowl roughly to the level of Heath Streak or Jacques Kallis.

Kapil Dev would be the first player on the team sheet of every international team now. He was what we would all love Hardik Pandya or Faheem Ashraf or Mitchell Marsh to become.

Without Kapil Dev there would be no Bumrah or Shami.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

I am not talking about opinion of Bilal7 but of experts.Imran Khan doesnot make it to most All time XIs. GOAT Asian cricketer. Lol. He is joint 3rd with Gavaskar. Tendulkar and Wasim Akram are 1 and 2 respectively.They make it to most World 11s.

He doesn’t make it to some world xi due to someone called Sobers, and also because most world xi only facilitate one all rounder.
Last time I checked Sobers was not Asian and so IK has every credential to be the GOAT Asian cricketer.
That set of credentials also includes leadership and adapting to pressure play, of which the less said about Tendulkar the better

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Kapil was a lesser bowler than Hadlee but a far better batsman. Also Kapil massively out performed Botham againist WI, the best team of their times. Yes Imran was the best among the lot but Kapil was not far below.

Raising Imran to a level which he was not at is the original revisionism on PP.

No one is hyping Imran to a level he is not. He was what he was - one of the best all rounders ever and a tough competitor. Above all, a relentless learner. His averages improved as he aged - until he couldn't bowl any more. To have played only 88 tests in 21 years is a travesty - unlike Kapil's 130+ games.

To use selective stats to show Kapil as better than him is just desperation. Go ask the West Indians.

 

[Junaids]

Just to repeat, Imran Khan did not play a single Test in the West Indies aged 25-34.

Not one.

More to the point, he led Pakistan in three series against the West Indies at the ages of:

34.0 years - drew 1-1 at home
35.8 years - drew 1-1 away
38.2 years - drew 1-1 at home

Imran was a fading force as a bowler by then, I’d estimate his median bowling speeds at:

1986 - 140K
1988 - 135K
1990 - 130K

By that 1990-91 series he was a defensive batsman at Number 6 providing medium paced support for Wasim and Waqar.

But it is difficult to compare Imran Khan’s bowling performances in the West Indies with Kapil Dev’s, because Imran never played there between the ages of 25-34, whereas Kapil Dev played his two series in the West Indies at the ages of:

24.4 years
30.2 years.

 

[as-95]

It is worth noting that while the great West Indies reduced Imran and Botham to tailenders literally, Kapil Dev was able to dominate them with the bat.

Kapil's match saving 100 off merely 95 balls against an attacking consisting of Marshal, Roberts, Holding, Garner at Port of Spain in 1982 exceeds by far anything Imran or Botham could ever achieve against the Windies in their den.

Scorecard:-
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...ia-2nd-test-india-tour-of-west-indies-1982-83


To put things into perspective, Imran's highest ever batting score in West Indies is just 47 and Botham's is 38



With the ball the bowlign averages in West Indies are as follows: -

Kapil - 23
Imran - 25
Botham - 39



Against the greatest opponent of their times at their home, Kapil was in a league far ahead of Imran/Botham

Skill aside, Kapil it seems relished challenges and had the heart to overcome the Windies demons.

That Port of Spain knock for instance, that puts some top notch batsmen of his time to shame. Not many batsmen could claim to smash that West Indies at their home for a 95 ball 100.

What a guy Kapil was!

One of the greatest ever cricketers.

Imran and Sobers are in a league of their own as all rounders with Botham and Hadlee also a tier above Kapil. Cherry picked stats will not help Kapil's case. He was a great all rounder but not comparable to the true ATG's. Hand picked stats are deceiving and won't change anyone's perception.

Furthermore, it is important to remember that Imran Khan only played 8 tests in West Indies whilst Kapil played 9. This is nowhere near a big enough sample size to make an assumption. Kapil's average of 23 is not much better than Imran's average of 25 in the West Indies.

The West Indies were still a formidable side away from home with their pace quartet and if you included all of Imran's matches against West Indies(home and away), his stats are far superior to Kapil's. Imran has a batting average of 27 and a bowling average of 21 against the WIndies whilst Kapil's performance decreases when you take into account home games. His average increaes to 24.89.

I would also like to counter your argument by questioning why Kapil Dev was so poor in England. England have always been home track bullies and it's a testament to a players ability if they can go to England and perform. Imran has excellent stats in England with a 35.71 batting average and a 24.63 bowling average whilst Kapil has a lower batting average than Imran and also a pathetic bowling average of 39.18 ). This is 7 more runs per wicket than the legendary Ishant Sharma has in England ).

Ultimately, you should provide more insight instead of trying to build strawman arguments to try and prove an invalid point!

 

[as-95]

Just to repeat, Imran Khan did not play a single Test in the West Indies aged 25-34.

Not one.

More to the point, he led Pakistan in three series against the West Indies at the ages of:

34.0 years - drew 1-1 at home
35.8 years - drew 1-1 away
38.2 years - drew 1-1 at home

Imran was a fading force as a bowler by then, I’d estimate his median bowling speeds at:

1986 - 140K
1988 - 135K
1990 - 130K

By that 1990-91 series he was a defensive batsman at Number 6 providing medium paced support for Wasim and Waqar.

But it is difficult to compare Imran Khan’s bowling performances in the West Indies with Kapil Dev’s, because Imran never played there between the ages of 25-34, whereas Kapil Dev played his two series in the West Indies at the ages of:

24.4 years
30.2 years.

Great points. Good insight.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Love this thread, OP well done, it has stirred up a lot of insecure Imranstas... Top job )


Imranstas don't get it, no one is saying Dev is a better overall player than Imran for the 1000th time. However watching you lot cry do bring me pleasure I must say, Ahhh love it, I am enjoying it thoroughly

 

[Robert]

I didn’t say that.

I said Kapil Dev wasn’t quite as good a bowler as Heath Streak.

Almost as good a bowler, significantly better batsman.

I’d say Kapil Dev combined the bowling ability of Jacques Kallis with the batting ability of Shaun Pollock.

Kapil got eight test centuries though. Pollock got what, two?

As a bowler I would put him next to Hoggard and Anderson.

His relative failure in England mystifies as you would think he was born to bowl here and was better than any of England’s early eighties medium pace array.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Kapil got eight test centuries though. Pollock got what, two?

As a bowler I would put him next to Hoggard and Anderson.

His relative failure in England mystifies as you would think he was born to bowl here and was better than any of England’s early eighties medium pace array.

Well in ENG, Dev turned into a batsmen who could occasionally bowl. However I agree, it is puzzling how he could not bowl well in ENG, if he could be the top dog in WI & AUS..... Maybe he was injured ? I heard he was injured and unfit during India's tour of NZ....

 

[Bhaijaan]

Some posters are panicking for no reason.

We are just celebrating Kapil Dev being the best of the great ARs against the West Indies and Australia in their den. Phenomenal achievement.

Imran was quite devastating in Pakistan and many other territories.

Botham also had great success in many parts of the world.

It’s just that Kapil was better in West Indies and Australia and he beat everyone eleee at winning World Cup. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Bhaijaan]

So far no one apart from [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] has been able to give insights into why Imran and Botham were nothing more than decent tailenders in West Indies. Kapil has a 10/10 ATG level 100 to his name there at Port of Spain.

We can hae all the rhetoric and hate speech we like but ultimately a healthy discussion is about putting logical explanations across so we can all learn and gain from this.

 

[Hitman]

I am not talking about opinion of Bilal7 but of experts.Imran Khan doesnot make it to most All time XIs. GOAT Asian cricketer. Lol. He is joint 3rd with Gavaskar. Tendulkar and Wasim Akram are 1 and 2 respectively.They make it to most World 11s.

The bloke has made it below Sachin in each and every single list prepared by former greats of the game and acclaimed cricket pundits ever since Sachin was halfway through his career

It's a case of some Indian fans rating Kapil Dev a better all wounder than Imran Khan over ICF. Any fan can rate his favorite player better than other greats of the game. What matters is whether the rest of the world does so or not.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Love this thread, OP well done, it has stirred up a lot of insecure Imranstas... :

Actually the responses are providing context to the OP. If you want to understand and improve your history & knowledge of the great game instead of wasting time posting smilies I would read through these posts and learn.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

So far no one apart from [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] has been able to give insights into why Imran and Botham were nothing more than decent tailenders in West Indies. Kapil has a 10/10 ATG level 100 to his name there at Port of Spain.

We can hae all the rhetoric and hate speech we like but ultimately a healthy discussion is about putting logical explanations across so we can all learn and gain from this.

Seems like you dismissed the logical explanations given above because they didn’t fit with your agenda.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Actually the responses are providing context to the OP. If you want to understand and improve your history & knowledge of the great game instead of wasting time posting smilies I would read through these posts and learn.

Ok there Mr easily hurt Imransta,

OP made valid points, Dev has better stats in WI than Botham & Imran, instead of saying rubbish like you usually do with your biased fan boy googles, you cant run away from facts.. It's not about couldve, wouldve, shouldve sunshine

 

[Romali_rotti]

So far no one apart from [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] has been able to give insights into why Imran and Botham were nothing more than decent tailenders in West Indies. Kapil has a 10/10 ATG level 100 to his name there at Port of Spain.

Well Imran was just an honest trier, credit to him though, he was very determined to stay at the crease, compared to Dev who just wanted to intimidate the bowlers. Dev's 95 ball 100 in WI vs their best bowlers and followed up in the next test match vs the same bowlers in their backyard with a 98 of 90 odd balls was a testament to his amazing talent (No other batsmen or all rounder has achieved this feat in WI vs their bowlers at their back yard at that that strike rate). Imran doesn't even have a 50 in WI, Botham well lol, he was nothing more than a deer in front of headlights vs the WI. Either way Imran and Botham did not have Dev's batting ability, too bad Dev did not have Imran's brain..

.

Bold...

 

[Junaids]

It is worth noting that while the great West Indies reduced Imran and Botham to tailenders literally, Kapil Dev was able to dominate them with the bat.

Kapil's match saving 100 off merely 95 balls against an attacking consisting of Marshal, Roberts, Holding, Garner at Port of Spain in 1982 exceeds by far anything Imran or Botham could ever achieve against the Windies in their den.

Scorecard:-
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...ia-2nd-test-india-tour-of-west-indies-1982-83


To put things into perspective, Imran's highest ever batting score in West Indies is just 47 and Botham's is 38



With the ball the bowlign averages in West Indies are as follows: -

Kapil - 23
Imran - 25
Botham - 39



Against the greatest opponent of their times at their home, Kapil was in a league far ahead of Imran/Botham

Skill aside, Kapil it seems relished challenges and had the heart to overcome the Windies demons.

That Port of Spain knock for instance, that puts some top notch batsmen of his time to shame. Not many batsmen could claim to smash that West Indies at their home for a 95 ball 100.

What a guy Kapil was!

One of the greatest ever cricketers.

Kapil Dev’s batting figures in the West Indies are distorted by two innings.

His century off 98 balls at Port of Spain came in the final minutes of a drab draw. The West Indies used the schoolboy spin of Larry Gomes at one end while at the other Viv Richards bowled a 7 over spell.

Kapil Dev only faced around 25 balls from the specialist bowlers, most of which were Marshall and Garner doing impressions of Bob Willis, Mike Procter and Jeff Thomson.

His innings of ninety-odd three matches later came in another drab draw in which only 25 wickets fell in five days on a flat pitch in a tiny stadium.

Imran Khan won 4 and lost 5 Tests to the West Indies.

Kapil Dev lost 3 times as many Tests to the West Indies as he won, and his two big innings were in nailed-on draws when the West Indies were bowling their batsmen to save their bowlers’ energy.

 

[Perth93]

The greatest all-rounders post WW2, based on all pundits and peers, still remain:

Sobers
Imran
Miller
Botham
Kallis.

Kapil was the Shane Watson of his time, decent hitter, slow seam and swing, but one-off performances overall. Hadlee was obviously a far superior bowler, and almost his equal in his attacking (if not defence) abilities. Sir Richard was a proper basher, loved his batting in the trieseries in 1989-90.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Bold...

I never had any doubt over Kapil being a far superior and impact batsman than any bowling AR ever. What surprises me most is him outdoing Imran and Botham with the balm in West Indies and Australia. I always thought Imran in particular was a much better bowler. Him being outdone by Kapil in 2 major nations was quite a revelation for me.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Kapil was the Shane Watson of his time, decent hitter, slow seam and swing, but one off performances overall .

If Kapil was the Watson of his era then that means Watson must have done some of the following :-

Held the world record for most test wickets in his time.

Was the best SENA bowler in tests in any of the Subcontinent nation’s.

Was by far the best test AR abainst the best test side of his era at their home ie India. What Watson has achieved in india in test cricket will have to be checked.

Captained his team to a World Cup victory

Be declared greatest Aussie cricketer of the century.

I will be waiting to read your results and where Watson stands on the above mentioned parameters to be able to be regarded as Kapil’s equal in his era.

 

[Muhammad10]

Kapil was definitely better (or less poor) with the bat in West Indies as demonstrated by his paltry average of 28.75 with a couple of good knocks, whereas Imran had an even worse average of 21.78 there.

However, if OP is claiming Kapil was leagues above him with the ball, that is a laughable attempt at analysis. Kapil maintained an impressive average of 23,11, largely by virtue of his miserly economy and chipping away with wickets here and there (35 in 9 matches, 2 5-fors), basically fairly limited impact in a poor bowling lineup.

On the other hand, Imran averaged 25.12, but he performed as a strike bowler and was far more impactful, picking up 48 wickets in just 8 matches (3 5-fors and 1 10-for). So Imran picked up 6 wickets per match, whereas Kapil didn't even take 4.

Looking at the results of the matches, (India, P: 9, W: 0, D: 4, L: 5. Pakistan, P: 8, W: 2, D: 3, L: 3) it is clear Imran Khan had a far greater impact in leading his team to impressive results in the home ground of a team that was unstoppable in those days, whereas Kapil was consistent but lacked the impact of a strike bowler, which was reflected in the poor results of the team he was leading.

As a batsman Kapil Dev was better, but he just had a couple of good knocks, not very impressive overall as his average shows, whereas Imran's bowling performances proved to be vital for his team's chances of putting up a fight away against a great side. Therefore, in my opinion, Imran DID NOT severely under perform, and played a far greater role in West Indies tours than Kapil. If anything, you overhyped Kapil despite his mediocre average with the bat and were sadly mistaken with regard to who was a better bowler in West Indies.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Ok there Mr easily hurt Imransta,

OP made valid points, Dev has better stats in WI than Botham & Imran, instead of saying rubbish like you usually do with your biased fan boy googles, you cant run away from facts.. It's not about couldve, wouldve, shouldve sunshine

Since you finished your post by addressing me as sunshine let me take this opportunity as a junior to tutor the wise old owl.
Based purely on what the OP mentioned here are the facts that add context to those assumptions:
(these are drawn primarily from the scorecard linked in the first post, my recollections of that match, what I subsequently read in the media)
Kapil Dev arrived at the crease with just around 2.5 hours of the test remaining.
His team was on 325/5 in their 2nd innings giving them a comfortable lead of 106 runs.
The Windies realised the match was drawn - remember the run rate in test cricket at the time was barely 2-2.5 runs per over. With around 40 overs left and with them having taken just three wickets all day the game was heading for a draw.
As [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has posted the rest of the game was aimed at entertaining the crowd with bowlers imitating their peers and generally goofing around (anyone who followed cricket in this era would validate that this happened on a number of occasions)
Mohinder Amarnath got the MOM for saving the match not KD.

If this is highlighted as one of the great feats, by no knowledge Indian fans, then the only thing you guys are doing is a great disservice to KD who had many more noteworthy accomplishments.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Bold...

Imran was a proper test batter with the requisite technique and application to build a proper test innings.
KD showed the application associated with that of a modern day hack. Happy to slog whilst at the crease and enjoy his luck until it ran out.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

The bloke has made it below Sachin in each and every single list prepared by former greats of the game and acclaimed cricket pundits ever since Sachin was halfway through his career

It's a case of some Indian fans rating Kapil Dev a better all wounder than Imran Khan over ICF. Any fan can rate his favorite player better than other greats of the game. What matters is whether the rest of the world does so or not.

I will tell you one reason many Pakistani players don't make it to ATG lists - they just don't play enough games. Imran only played 88. Miandad and Inzaman didn't play as many as David. Sachin had 200. They do not get a chance to capitalize on their golden years the way Aus, Ind and England do.

No fault of players in those teams but it is what it is. Miandad, YK, Waqar, Shoaib, Anwar didn't get as many tests in their prime as Ishant Sharma or Stuart Broad. Just their rotten luck or they would have many more centuries, 5 fers and 10 fers.

Cook is a hell of a player but his average is not that great - number of tests are though.

I am talking about maximizing your prime.

Someone like Babar Azam will get half the tests Bairstow will get.

Not a lament, just facts behind ATG.

 

[Hitman]

I will tell you one reason many Pakistani players don't make it to ATG lists - they just don't play enough games. Imran only played 88. Miandad and Inzaman didn't play as many as David. Sachin had 200. They do not get a chance to capitalize on their golden years the way Aus, Ind and England do.

No fault of players in those teams but it is what it is. Miandad, YK, Waqar, Shoaib, Anwar didn't get as many tests in their prime as Ishant Sharma or Stuart Broad. Just their rotten luck or they would have many more centuries, 5 fers and 10 fers.

Cook is a hell of a player but his average is not that great - number of tests are though.

I am talking about maximizing your prime.

Someone like Babar Azam will get half the tests Bairstow will get.

Not a lament, just facts behind ATG.

Inzamam played 120 Tests and Miandad played 124 Tests. Three West Indian legends in Garry Sobers, Viv Richards and Brian Lara played 93 Tests, 121 Tests and 131 Tests respectively.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

The bloke has made it below Sachin in each and every single list prepared by former greats of the game and acclaimed cricket pundits ever since Sachin was halfway through his career
It's a case of some Indian fans rating Kapil Dev a better all wounder than Imran Khan over ICF. Any fan can rate his favorite player better than other greats of the game. What matters is whether the rest of the world does so or not.

Which lists are you posting about?

 

[Hitman]

Which lists are you posting about?

Just to name a handful that comes into mind -

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ends-of-Cricket-Top-25-Cricketers-Of-All-Time

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...id-Gower-s-50-Greatest-Cricketers-of-All-Time

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...topher-Martin-Jenkins-100-greatest-cricketers

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Cricketers-by-Benedict-Bermange-(Sky-Sports)

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/24640224

 

[Romali_rotti]

Kapil Dev arrived at the crease with just around 2.5 hours of the test remaining.
His team was on 325/5 in their 2nd innings giving them a comfortable lead of 106 runs.
The Windies realised the match was drawn - remember the run rate in test cricket at the time was barely 2-2.5 runs per over. With around 40 overs left and with them having taken just three wickets all day the game was heading for a draw.
As [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has posted the rest of the game was aimed at entertaining the crowd with bowlers imitating their peers and generally goofing around (anyone who followed cricket in this era would validate that this happened on a number of occasions)
Mohinder Amarnath got the MOM for saving the match not KD.

.

Ofcourse a champion side like WI would just clown around and bowl underarm so the opposing side can have a batsmen score the fastest 100 ever scored in the WI .. Keep the excuses coming, so what's your excuse for Dev's 98 of 90 odd balls in another game in that same test series ??? OHHH let me guess the Pakistani in you is saying:'GOD DAMMMIT, it's not fair, my sour grape Pakistani side wont let me accept anything other than the WI bowlers were bowling underarm because they didn't care. I cant accept anything that shows Dev was better than Imran' ...

OH and Imran would've, should've, could've done this and that also had he played when he was younger in the WI yeah ? Like your fellow countrymen Junaids is claiming ? ... AHh the good ol should've, would've, could've, some of you Pakistanis are pure comedy I tell ya, the amount of laughter this thread has provided me with, is simply awesome

DEV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Destroys Imran the Batsmen in WI!!!!!!!!!...

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Just to name a handful that comes into mind -

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ends-of-Cricket-Top-25-Cricketers-Of-All-Time

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...id-Gower-s-50-Greatest-Cricketers-of-All-Time

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...topher-Martin-Jenkins-100-greatest-cricketers

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Cricketers-by-Benedict-Bermange-(Sky-Sports)

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/24640224

Ok, seen them all before.
My only complaint is that he failed miserably as a leader and for me someone to rank so highly he has to show more than just longevity (albeit he was fairly consistent).
PS, I don’t want to stir the hornets nest but IK lost his peak years to a serious back injury. Look at his record between 1982-86. Despite losing his peak years he ranks marginally lower than SRT.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I never had any doubt over Kapil being a far superior and impact batsman than any bowling AR ever. What surprises me most is him outdoing Imran and Botham with the balm in West Indies and Australia. I always thought Imran in particular was a much better bowler. Him being outdone by Kapil in 2 major nations was quite a revelation for me.

Both Imran and Botham were just mediocre bats when the bowlers were the best in the world and especially at their house... Imran atleast tried, but Botham was a shooting duck, he could barely get bat on ball on the WI.... I hate Kapil Dev for the fact that; he just wanted to always intimidate with the bat and not apply himself, Vaskar was right to drop him the one and only time he was dropped I believe for playing a silly shot that cost India the match...

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Ofcourse a champion side like WI would just clown around and bowl underarm so the opposing side can have a batsmen score the fastest 100 ever scored in the WI .. Keep the excuses coming, so what's your excuse for Dev's 98 of 90 odd balls in another game in that same test series ??? OHHH let me guess the Pakistani in you is saying:'GOD DAMMMIT, it's not fair, my sour grape Pakistani side wont let me accept anything other than the WI bowlers were bowling underarm because they didn't care. I cant accept anything that shows Dev was better than Imran' ...

OH and Imran would've, should've, could've done this and that also had he played when he was younger in the WI yeah ? Like your fellow countrymen Junaids is claiming ? ... AHh the good ol should've, would've, could've, some of you Pakistanis are pure comedy I tell ya, the amount of laughter this thread has provided me with, is simply awesome

DEV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Destroys Imran the Batsmen in WI!!!!!!!!!...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...ia-5th-test-india-tour-of-west-indies-1982-83

Have a look yourself. There were no less than six centuries I think. KD was not one of them.
Only 25 wickets fell in 5 days.
Not exactly the tale of legends you imagined I suspect .
I’ll ignore the rest of the diatribe as it’s obviously hurting at the moment.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Both Imran and Botham were just mediocre bats when the bowlers were the best in the world and especially at their house... Imran atleast tried, but Botham was a shooting duck, he could barely get bat on ball on the WI.... I hate Kapil Dev for the fact that; he just wanted to always intimidate with the bat and not apply himself, Vaskar was right to drop him the one and only time he was dropped I believe for playing a silly shot that cost India the match...

As batsmen Kapil was a superior version of Andrew Flintofd.

Imran as batsman was very similar to Ravender Jadeja without the sword celebration but of course a mic better bowler.

Botham could bat like Kapil on his days but they rarely came against the best team of his era. The Windies reduced Botham to a tailenders role much like they did to Imran.

 

[Bhaijaan]

If Kapil played for batting averages he could have easily averaged in 40s in tests. He was evidently the most gifted batsmen among the 6 great ARs of his era.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2009/may/13/cricket-graham-gooch-rob-bagchi

http://notthefootyshow.ashleymorrisonmedia.com/the-true-all-rounder/

See above links, two tests petering out to draws when Graham Gooch started doing bowling impersonations. Interestingly both against India in 79 and 82

 

[Iqbal'sh]

If Kapil played for batting averages he could have easily averaged in 40s in tests. He was evidently the most gifted batsmen among the 6 great ARs of his era.

Hmmm “would’ve, could’ve, should’ve”

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ok, seen them all before.
My only complaint is that he failed miserably as a leader and for me someone to rank so highly he has to show more than just longevity (albeit he was fairly consistent).
PS, I don’t want to stir the hornets nest but IK lost his peak years to a serious back injury. Look at his record between 1982-86. Despite losing his peak years he ranks marginally lower than SRT.

Tendulkar had to change is batting style in 2004 due to tennis elbow and cut out some of his high scoring shots. He also had to reduce the weight of his bat,something that affected his timing and bat speed. Yet he continued to perform.