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Why didn't Pakistan produce a single quality ODI batsman during the Misbah era (2011-2015)?

Bleedgreen4ever

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As a young teenager I spent my school years seeing batting scores like 1-4, 22-3, 30-4 in ODI then Misbah putting on a slow fifty and Pakistan putting on 220-240. Chasing 250+ seemed next to impossible.

We had many young batsmen like Shehzad, Jamshed, UAkmal etc. Why did we completely fail to produce a quality ODI batsman during that time. We are extremely fortunate to have Babar and Imam now, who are among the best in the world. Huge credit goes to Azhar, Mickey Arthur and Sarfraz for backing these two in the early stages of their careers.


Your opinion? :sarf
 
Difference in Mindset which reaked of ultra defensive cricket.
 
Difference in Mindset which reaked of ultra defensive cricket.

It was during this era Pak test batting was pretty dependable with the likes of Hafeez and Taufeeq and later Azhar Ali as openers, followed by Younus and Misbah’s fruitful peaks, and promising look of Asad Shafiq and Sarfaraz Ahmed. Of course all of that went downhill after riding to no1 around 2016.

ODI batting was in sharp decline since early 2000s and became mediocre after retirements of both Inzi and Yousuf. Pakistan didn’t produce a world class LOI batsman since basically Mohd Yousuf.

So question is why did Pak didn’t produce a great ODI batsmen until Babar.

Thought T20 batting was okay but was definitely slimmer during this period.
 
Talent comes in cycles. Unfair to blame anybody specific for it.

One can also say same of many teams

Between 2015 -2019 India also could only produce Ambati Rayudu and Kedar Jadhav as best intl level players instead of any new long term talent

In same 2015-2019 Aus also ended up only polishing old batters like SMarsh and Khawaja in LOIs instead of developing any new talent.

Whereas between 2015-2019 Pak have out of necessity and luck managed to develop Babar, Imam, Fakhar, Rizwan who will now all be at peak come 2023 WC.
 
It was in this period that Pakistan beat India in India and South Africa in South Africa, don't forget.

Also won an Asia Cup.
 
In that period, Pakistan still produced many talented and promising batsman like Umar Akmal, Fawad Alam and Nasir Jamshed. Sadly, they were ruined by themselves.
Salman Butt would have scored more than 10,000 runs so far if he had not done that scandal. Sarfaraz Ahmed was not used properly by Pakistan in that period.
Ahmed Shahzad was probably the most useless young batsman for them in the given particular time.
 
Before Babar and Rizwan, things were chaotic for Pakistan in ODI format.

It was a rebuilding period.
 
Batsmen who were supposed to be good like Akmal/Shehzad/Jamshed/Maqsood/Umar Amin etc. turned out to be busts. Haris Sohail was extremely promising and was even doing well in ODI's but never got a shot in Tests despite the FC record. Plus, the injuries.

They did have Sarfraz who turned out to be one of their better WK in Pakistan's history. Their fast bowling stocks was even worse IMO as we saw scrubs like Irfan/Rahat etc play so many matches and some get ruined by injuries like Junaid. Fast bowling wise, Pakistan looked horrific in that department and probably why they were so desperate to get Amir on the squad.

Sometimes talent just comes in batches than in consistent flow. Not long after that we saw Babar/Imam/Shadab/Hasan/Shaheen etc come up to become core parts of the team going forward.
 
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Before Babar and Rizwan, things were chaotic for Pakistan in ODI format.

It was a rebuilding period.

Why do people keep stuffing Rizwan into the ODI revival alongside the name of Babar????

Rizwan has done nothing of note in ODI
 
Buzdil is the key word here. Buzdil attitude, Buzdil tactics. Buzdil mindset.
 
He saw teams like New Zealand, West Indies, Australia, India and South Africa evolve in white ball cricket yet he did nothing about it whatsoever!

He cannot complain that he didn’t have the right kind of players, his tactics were complete nonsense and the players were not pushed to achieve the heights reached by the McCullums and Gayles!

Misbah era Pakistan ODI XI that could have easily hit 340+ Per game if only they actually wanted to!

1. Sharjeel
2. Kamran
3. Umar Akmal
4. Hafeez
5. Malik
6. Misbah
7. Afridi
8. Tanvir
9. Wahab
10. Junaid
11. Ajmal

All of these guys were available

All of them could play modern white ball cricket!

We just never tried under Misbah and Waqar!
 
During the Misbah era, the Pakistan team management tried to push the narrative that the current crop of players are not good enough and this is why Misbah has to play the role of anchor every time.

Shoaib Akhtar brutally exposed him as a guest on Geo sports by stating how Misbah is very happy to walk in with the score at 30-3 after 10 overs as this gives him the license to play his slow innings and score his 50 off 80 balls.

Misbah was more than happy to let cr@p players bat before him and let them fail so that he can do his own thing without any criticism! There was no legit reason to sack Afridi as the captain of the ODI team after the 2011 World Cup. Misbah should have stuck to Test captaincy only!
 
He saw teams like New Zealand, West Indies, Australia, India and South Africa evolve in white ball cricket yet he did nothing about it whatsoever!

He cannot complain that he didn’t have the right kind of players, his tactics were complete nonsense and the players were not pushed to achieve the heights reached by the McCullums and Gayles!

Misbah era Pakistan ODI XI that could have easily hit 340+ Per game if only they actually wanted to!

1. Sharjeel
2. Kamran
3. Umar Akmal
4. Hafeez
5. Malik
6. Misbah
7. Afridi
8. Tanvir
9. Wahab
10. Junaid
11. Ajmal

All of these guys were available

All of them could play modern white ball cricket!

We just never tried under Misbah and Waqar!

340 per game with this batting line up lol, keep dreaming. There is one international class batsman in the whole line up and you've shunted him down at 6. Hafeez is at 4 when he never played in the middle order during this period. I could go on.

Less said about your top 3 the better. Pretty telling how they are all available or have been available across several years and coaching regimes and nobody has picked them.
 
Misbah's mentality was defeatist and to play an archaic cancerous brand of cricket.
 
He saw teams like New Zealand, West Indies, Australia, India and South Africa evolve in white ball cricket yet he did nothing about it whatsoever!

He cannot complain that he didn’t have the right kind of players, his tactics were complete nonsense and the players were not pushed to achieve the heights reached by the McCullums and Gayles!

Misbah era Pakistan ODI XI that could have easily hit 340+ Per game if only they actually wanted to!

1. Sharjeel
2. Kamran
3. Umar Akmal
4. Hafeez
5. Malik
6. Misbah
7. Afridi
8. Tanvir
9. Wahab
10. Junaid
11. Ajmal

All of these guys were available

All of them could play modern white ball cricket!

We just never tried under Misbah and Waqar!

This is next level delusional.

First, they played in UAE so those scores were never happening.

Secondly, that lineup sucks and the lack of talent is why Pakistan were an absolute disaster in LOI cricket. They had terrible fast bowlers outside of Junaid looking special prior to injuries, openers were consistently terrible, they also had no elite batsmen. For any team to be a good batting team, you need great to elite batsmen and multiple of them. People need to grasp this concept that it's not simple just a "mentality" or "approach" or other useless generic buzz words people use but you need talent & ability to execute. You can have the approach of Joss Butler/Stokes/Roy etc all you want, but you need elite talent to execute at that high level.

Pakistan often just had terrible batsmen during the era and running out mediocirty like Younis & Shehzad who not only averaged in the low 30's but also had SR in the 70's. Even their so called "aggressive" batsmen in Umar Akmal had a SR of just 86 despite batting lower in the order and often coming later into the game. Pakistan were just mediocre during that era because that is the level of talent they had.
 
Unfair to blame Misbah solely for this as producing talent is the board's job. And the board was busy with rebuilding from the outcomes of the spot fixing saga and the Sri Lanka team attack.
 
We were plagued by a mediocre overdefensive captain who was not fit for modern day limited overs cricket. This was compounded by poor quality coaching and a substandard level of competition and coaching in domestic cricket.
 
Maybe Sharjeel+Akmals top 3 could have gotten 340 against teams like PNG and Bermuda
 
Talent comes in cycles. Unfair to blame anybody specific for it.

One can also say same of many teams

Between 2015 -2019 India also could only produce Ambati Rayudu and Kedar Jadhav as best intl level players instead of any new long term talent

In same 2015-2019 Aus also ended up only polishing old batters like SMarsh and Khawaja in LOIs instead of developing any new talent.

Whereas between 2015-2019 Pak have out of necessity and luck managed to develop Babar, Imam, Fakhar, Rizwan who will now all be at peak come 2023 WC.

This. Irrespective of how good and strong system you have, talent varies in different eras. Yes with a good system you can maybe minimize the period of low talent but, its still going to come as we saw even with Aus for few years post 2007 WC.
 
In that period, Pakistan still produced many talented and promising batsman like Umar Akmal, Fawad Alam and Nasir Jamshed. Sadly, they were ruined by themselves.
Salman Butt would have scored more than 10,000 runs so far if he had not done that scandal. Sarfaraz Ahmed was not used properly by Pakistan in that period.
Ahmed Shahzad was probably the most useless young batsman for them in the given particular time.

Yes. However, most of them were on their day kind of batsmen i.e Umar Akmal, Nasir Jamshed, even Sohaib Maqsood. To become a top batsmen and help your team win more matches you need that consistency, Pakistan lacked that during that time. Misbah tried to play that role but, he had limited skillset which did allow Pakistan to reach average kind of scores which were sometimes defended as well but, he didnt have the skills some of the current Pak batsmen have to be consistent with a good SR.
 
From that era Haris Sohail had the potential to be a top batsman based upon not only skills but, temperament and game sense as well. His knee injury and struggles with that aspect took away a chunk of his playing career and he never touched that peak fitness which is required from a modern day batsman.

If he would have maybe put in some effort he would have ended as one of the best batsman for Pak. He even could have been a very solid batting all rounder with the SLA skills he developed over time and came into play when actions of couple of Pak national spinners came under question. Even with all the issues he still has one of the highest averages in ODI cricket for Pakistan.
 
340 per game with this batting line up lol, keep dreaming. There is one international class batsman in the whole line up and you've shunted him down at 6. Hafeez is at 4 when he never played in the middle order during this period. I could go on.

Less said about your top 3 the better. Pretty telling how they are all available or have been available across several years and coaching regimes and nobody has picked them.

Who was the coaching regime?!?

It was Waqar Younis all along! He brought an out of touch with cricket Nasir Jamshed to play a World Cup in Australia and Misbah went along with it! That’s how tactically clueless they were!!
 
He saw teams like New Zealand, West Indies, Australia, India and South Africa evolve in white ball cricket yet he did nothing about it whatsoever!

He cannot complain that he didn’t have the right kind of players, his tactics were complete nonsense and the players were not pushed to achieve the heights reached by the McCullums and Gayles!

Misbah era Pakistan ODI XI that could have easily hit 340+ Per game if only they actually wanted to!

1. Sharjeel
2. Kamran
3. Umar Akmal
4. Hafeez
5. Malik
6. Misbah
7. Afridi
8. Tanvir
9. Wahab
10. Junaid
11. Ajmal

All of these guys were available

All of them could play modern white ball cricket!

We just never tried under Misbah and Waqar!

You have lost any shred of credibility you had by selecting Kamran as our opener. The worst batsman to play consistently in our history.

The fact that you've been laughing at people talking about Rizwan in the ODI team but select a worse failure who was also terrible in all formats. At least Rizwan has done well in t20s and Tests.
 
This is next level delusional.

First, they played in UAE so those scores were never happening.

Secondly, that lineup sucks and the lack of talent is why Pakistan were an absolute disaster in LOI cricket. They had terrible fast bowlers outside of Junaid looking special prior to injuries, openers were consistently terrible, they also had no elite batsmen. For any team to be a good batting team, you need great to elite batsmen and multiple of them. People need to grasp this concept that it's not simple just a "mentality" or "approach" or other useless generic buzz words people use but you need talent & ability to execute. You can have the approach of Joss Butler/Stokes/Roy etc all you want, but you need elite talent to execute at that high level.

Pakistan often just had terrible batsmen during the era and running out mediocirty like Younis & Shehzad who not only averaged in the low 30's but also had SR in the 70's. Even their so called "aggressive" batsmen in Umar Akmal had a SR of just 86 despite batting lower in the order and often coming later into the game. Pakistan were just mediocre during that era because that is the level of talent they had.

What a nonsense post. You need ‘elite talent to execute that’. Hahahahahahahaha

This is why Paul Sterling and Tim David are two of the most destructive batsmen in the world whilst representing associates at international level?!

Misbah fans have now found a new icon on Mohammad Rizwan. They will make all kinds of nonsense excuses to defend their idols! On the same UAE tracks, the revamped England side gave Pakistan a beating of a lifetime when they approached the game with an attacking mentality.

Pakistan still trying their outdated tricks of keeping wickets in hand and trying to score 100+ in the last ten
 
You have lost any shred of credibility you had by selecting Kamran as our opener. The worst batsman to play consistently in our history.

The fact that you've been laughing at people talking about Rizwan in the ODI team but select a worse failure who was also terrible in all formats. At least Rizwan has done well in t20s and Tests.

It’s easy to make fun of players from different eras.

Kamran proved he was one of the best, attacking openers in the PSL. And he wasn’t the worst batsman to represent Pakistan consistently, that would have to be Mohammad Rizwan in ODIs, maybe Ahmad Shahzad at two.

For those who understand cricket, Kamran was a beautiful free flowing batsman when on song. He was a terrible keeper but he was most definitely a very good batsman!
 
I will continue to hurt Misbah/Waqar/Rizwan fans with the truth about white ball cricket

This is not your domain. This is not 1980s cricket
 
I thought I had finally recovered from the PTSD that I have suffered watching ODI cricket under Misbah ul Haq. Only to see my trauma return when Misbah opened the T20i side with Imam ul Haq and then Rizwan.

The man is a tyrant when it comes to white ball batting tactics!
 
I agree that not a single quality ODI batsmen was produced, but it depends how you want to see it. By saying Misbah era, you could be trying to blame on Misbah.

In todays era, we have Babar Azam and Imam ul Haq as quality odi batsmen, but the rest are still the same. Yes, in todays era we can chase 300+, while during Misbah era posting 250+ was difficult, however, Misbah's captaincy would result in us winning matches where we would defend low totals

You see, Pakistan not being able to produce a quality odi batsmen was a problem that existed since 2009, It was not just Misbah era. Why was that? There are many factors.

First you have to go back to the early 2000s

In the early 2000s, new crop of batsmen were being introduced. This crop was thrown into domestic cricket and than into international cricket. We saw the likes of Farhat, Nazir, Yasir Hameed, Faisal Iqbal, Kamran Akmal, Malik and Taufeeq Umar come. Out of no where was PCB selecting young guys into the team. These guys for the most parts would hog the spots in the team and would keep on rotating spots. If they failed at international, these and many more guys kept their spots in the domestic circuit.

Saeed Bin Nasir, Amir Sajjad, Nauman, Naveed Latif etc were just few names that were not being given the chance at international but were always near selection. There were many batsmen at that time who would be near selection but wont make the final cut

I used to follow domestic score cards, and till this day I never understood why names like Babar Naeem, Mughal and many other names that continued to do bad in domestic cricket yet they kept their spots in their domestic team.

You see, the likes of Farhat, Nazir, Hameed kept returning as they dominated domestic cricket. There competitors were the likes of Babar Naeem who sucked but kept the spots. There were feww like Saeed Bin Nasir who would appear but wont get selected. Our Domestic Cricket was a big joke.

Eventually what happened was that by 2009, the farhats, the hameeds, the nazirs were either injured, near retirement and the PCB had enough with them.

Now after 2009 we had this void, as no young player had been in that circle and thus no one to select. You see, while this is a thread on batsmen, Pakistan had many pace bowlers that got wasted aswell. Aizaz Cheema, Sohail Khan, Wahab Riaz, Abdur Rauf were good enough bowlers. Sohail Khan was able to show his worth later in his career. Young Wahab was a good bowler and now isn't the same bowler like he was before.

Domestic cricket needed to be cleaned up. The aging seniors need in international and domestic were required to let off and be replaced with new young guys. There were no scouts that existed to bring new talents to domestic.

Post 2009

Now the void left with no players to replace in domestic would be filled when the U19 cricket world cup started to be broadcasted. The 11 guys that would end up playing in the u19 world cup would eventually not only get selected in doemstic but also get international selection aswell. Selectors didn't bother going to doemstic game and just relied on TV.

Thus, from U19 cricket we saw the likes of Nasir Jamshed, Ahmed Shezad, Umar Akmal, Raza Hassan, Hammad Azam emerge...

Infact, the stupidity of selecting on television games was soo much that a selector in Pakistan ended up selecting Raza Hassan and Hammad Azam directly to Pakistan team in 2010. Afridi was sane enough to not play them as he knew they were not ready players and selectors got over excited.

Misbah Era

During Misbah era the following young players would play:
Ahmed Shezad
Umar Akmal
Nasir Jamshed
Haris Sohail
Asad Shafiq
Sohaib Maqsood
Sharjeel Khan
Adnan Akmal
Sarfraz Ahmad

The problem was same during Misbah Era, domestic cricket was a mess and selectors did not bother to attend domestic games. They just saw at home and whatever match they saw on TV, the player would get selected.

The young players that I mentioned above, these players were not good quality. You cant blame Misbah if a player sucks. Umar Akmal was a pathetic batsmen and you could had seen it during the 2009-2010 season. His way of throwing his wickets is still the same. He never improved.

Ahmed Shezad was no different, and his 100 in a small ground of NZ was celebrated as if he was the answer to all our opener problems.

Nasir Jamshed was a big surprise, after how well he did against India.

Sohaib Maqsood was selected due to the media hype and we all know how bad he turned out to be. Sharjeel Khan was a struggling opener and he himself has said that Misbah told him to play his natural game.

Eventually, during Misbah era, two batsmen would emerge in odis, Haris Sohail and Sarfraz Ahmed. If there is one thing that Misbah should be blamed for it was that he didnt give Azhar Ali an extended run in the odi team.

Post Misbah Era
If you think that things improved after Misbah era, well nothing did.

What eventually happened was PSL came in 2016 and todays selection in the odi team are all PSL selections baring Babar Azam and Imam Ul Haq. PSL is broadcasted on tv and has social media hype, thus, any player who performs gets selected.

PSL selections are good and also bad.

Good thing is that young players can now come up due to the mandatory young player have to be played. And if he performs he will get selected. Hasan Ali, Shadab, Mohammad Nawaz came this way.

But the bad thing is that many players who dont deserve to be selected are getting selection. Mohammad Haris is one example. Even Haris Rauf is another one who gets a free joy ride without any domestic experience.

PSL has lead to our domestic cricket being improved because many of the oldies have now been kicked out. For Example, had Ahmad Shezad existed during the 2000-2010 era, there was no way a pllayer of his seniority would had been kicked out of domestic or been made to sit benches.

In todays domestic circuit, if a senior isnt performing he gets the bench no matter what. Be it Umar akmal or Ahmad Shezad. Thus, domestic cricket has improved in terms of having players to replace with. PSL feeds them players

The reason why we are able to score 280+ nowadays is because of Babar and Imam. Rizwan was a player that Misbah developed in SNGPL. Shadab Khan is a player that came from PSL and him being an allrounder extends our batting.
 
It’s easy to make fun of players from different eras.

Kamran proved he was one of the best, attacking openers in the PSL. And he wasn’t the worst batsman to represent Pakistan consistently, that would have to be Mohammad Rizwan in ODIs, maybe Ahmad Shahzad at two.

For those who understand cricket, Kamran was a beautiful free flowing batsman when on song. He was a terrible keeper but he was most definitely a very good batsman!

This just shows how delusional you are. Rizwan has barely played for pakistan consistently. He's played just 42 ODI innings, many lower down the order and has still scored 2 centuries. Kamran played more than 4 times as many matches, most of his innings at the top and yet averaged worse at a lower strike rate.

Kamran averaged in the 20s across HUNDREDS of international matches, playing unchallenged for years. No one comes close to that.

Forget his keeping, his batting was beyond atrocious. 'Beautiful free flowing batsman'? That's subjective but the fact that you find his ugly leaning on the bat, flat footed stance beautiful is hilarious. You definitely understand cricket. :virat1

Rizwan outperformed Kami at the PSL if that's your benchmark and was phenomenal at the World Cup.
 
This just shows how delusional you are. Rizwan has barely played for pakistan consistently. He's played just 42 ODI innings, many lower down the order and has still scored 2 centuries. Kamran played more than 4 times as many matches, most of his innings at the top and yet averaged worse at a lower strike rate.

Kamran averaged in the 20s across HUNDREDS of international matches, playing unchallenged for years. No one comes close to that.

Forget his keeping, his batting was beyond atrocious. 'Beautiful free flowing batsman'? That's subjective but the fact that you find his ugly leaning on the bat, flat footed stance beautiful is hilarious. You definitely understand cricket. :virat1

Rizwan outperformed Kami at the PSL if that's your benchmark and was phenomenal at the World Cup.

So now Kamran was an ugly player to watch bar according to Rizwan fans?
 
One thing that needs to be on record about the Akmal bros.

Without a doubt these two were trouble makers and disgustingly self entitled. This has been their downfall as cricketers for sure.

However, there is no denying their talent when it comes to batting. On song, both brothers are a delight to watch. No matter how hard Rizwan/Misbah fans try to put a spin on it.
 
I have to agree with Shoaib Akhtar

Kamran Akmal could have been one of the best batsman for Pakistan had he given up the gloves and focused on batting only. The problem was, he was a terrible fielder and it was extremely difficult to play him as a batsman only
 
I agree that not a single quality ODI batsmen was produced, but it depends how you want to see it. By saying Misbah era, you could be trying to blame on Misbah.

In todays era, we have Babar Azam and Imam ul Haq as quality odi batsmen, but the rest are still the same. Yes, in todays era we can chase 300+, while during Misbah era posting 250+ was difficult, however, Misbah's captaincy would result in us winning matches where we would defend low totals

You see, Pakistan not being able to produce a quality odi batsmen was a problem that existed since 2009, It was not just Misbah era. Why was that? There are many factors.

First you have to go back to the early 2000s

In the early 2000s, new crop of batsmen were being introduced. This crop was thrown into domestic cricket and than into international cricket. We saw the likes of Farhat, Nazir, Yasir Hameed, Faisal Iqbal, Kamran Akmal, Malik and Taufeeq Umar come. Out of no where was PCB selecting young guys into the team. These guys for the most parts would hog the spots in the team and would keep on rotating spots. If they failed at international, these and many more guys kept their spots in the domestic circuit.

Saeed Bin Nasir, Amir Sajjad, Nauman, Naveed Latif etc were just few names that were not being given the chance at international but were always near selection. There were many batsmen at that time who would be near selection but wont make the final cut

I used to follow domestic score cards, and till this day I never understood why names like Babar Naeem, Mughal and many other names that continued to do bad in domestic cricket yet they kept their spots in their domestic team.

You see, the likes of Farhat, Nazir, Hameed kept returning as they dominated domestic cricket. There competitors were the likes of Babar Naeem who sucked but kept the spots. There were feww like Saeed Bin Nasir who would appear but wont get selected. Our Domestic Cricket was a big joke.

Eventually what happened was that by 2009, the farhats, the hameeds, the nazirs were either injured, near retirement and the PCB had enough with them.

Now after 2009 we had this void, as no young player had been in that circle and thus no one to select. You see, while this is a thread on batsmen, Pakistan had many pace bowlers that got wasted aswell. Aizaz Cheema, Sohail Khan, Wahab Riaz, Abdur Rauf were good enough bowlers. Sohail Khan was able to show his worth later in his career. Young Wahab was a good bowler and now isn't the same bowler like he was before.

Domestic cricket needed to be cleaned up. The aging seniors need in international and domestic were required to let off and be replaced with new young guys. There were no scouts that existed to bring new talents to domestic.

Post 2009

Now the void left with no players to replace in domestic would be filled when the U19 cricket world cup started to be broadcasted. The 11 guys that would end up playing in the u19 world cup would eventually not only get selected in doemstic but also get international selection aswell. Selectors didn't bother going to doemstic game and just relied on TV.

Thus, from U19 cricket we saw the likes of Nasir Jamshed, Ahmed Shezad, Umar Akmal, Raza Hassan, Hammad Azam emerge...

Infact, the stupidity of selecting on television games was soo much that a selector in Pakistan ended up selecting Raza Hassan and Hammad Azam directly to Pakistan team in 2010. Afridi was sane enough to not play them as he knew they were not ready players and selectors got over excited.

Misbah Era

During Misbah era the following young players would play:
Ahmed Shezad
Umar Akmal
Nasir Jamshed
Haris Sohail
Asad Shafiq
Sohaib Maqsood
Sharjeel Khan
Adnan Akmal
Sarfraz Ahmad

The problem was same during Misbah Era, domestic cricket was a mess and selectors did not bother to attend domestic games. They just saw at home and whatever match they saw on TV, the player would get selected.

The young players that I mentioned above, these players were not good quality. You cant blame Misbah if a player sucks. Umar Akmal was a pathetic batsmen and you could had seen it during the 2009-2010 season. His way of throwing his wickets is still the same. He never improved.

Ahmed Shezad was no different, and his 100 in a small ground of NZ was celebrated as if he was the answer to all our opener problems.

Nasir Jamshed was a big surprise, after how well he did against India.

Sohaib Maqsood was selected due to the media hype and we all know how bad he turned out to be. Sharjeel Khan was a struggling opener and he himself has said that Misbah told him to play his natural game.

Eventually, during Misbah era, two batsmen would emerge in odis, Haris Sohail and Sarfraz Ahmed. If there is one thing that Misbah should be blamed for it was that he didnt give Azhar Ali an extended run in the odi team.

Post Misbah Era
If you think that things improved after Misbah era, well nothing did.

What eventually happened was PSL came in 2016 and todays selection in the odi team are all PSL selections baring Babar Azam and Imam Ul Haq. PSL is broadcasted on tv and has social media hype, thus, any player who performs gets selected.

PSL selections are good and also bad.

Good thing is that young players can now come up due to the mandatory young player have to be played. And if he performs he will get selected. Hasan Ali, Shadab, Mohammad Nawaz came this way.

But the bad thing is that many players who dont deserve to be selected are getting selection. Mohammad Haris is one example. Even Haris Rauf is another one who gets a free joy ride without any domestic experience.

PSL has lead to our domestic cricket being improved because many of the oldies have now been kicked out. For Example, had Ahmad Shezad existed during the 2000-2010 era, there was no way a pllayer of his seniority would had been kicked out of domestic or been made to sit benches.

In todays domestic circuit, if a senior isnt performing he gets the bench no matter what. Be it Umar akmal or Ahmad Shezad. Thus, domestic cricket has improved in terms of having players to replace with. PSL feeds them players

The reason why we are able to score 280+ nowadays is because of Babar and Imam. Rizwan was a player that Misbah developed in SNGPL. Shadab Khan is a player that came from PSL and him being an allrounder extends our batting.

This has to be the most Amber Heard/Elaine Beherndorf post I have ever read in defence of Misbah.

“Lets blame the system and rubbish players coming through instead of taking ownership of Misbah’s useless tactics and approach with the bat”!
 
So now Kamran was an ugly player to watch bar according to Rizwan fans?

Most pakistan fans are Rizwan fans. He helped end the streak and has been a breath of fresh air ever since he came in the team. He is fit, has improved his game and is a likeable person.

The fact that you like Kamran, talk about nice he is to watch 'when on song' but constantly hate on a consistent performer like Rizwan shows ridiculous bias. 'But Rizwan has been rubbish in ODI'. EXACTLY - the one format where he hasn't established himself yet, has only played 40 odd matches - he still has outperformed Kami. Who is even worse in the other formats. So how can you go on about talent.

Say whatever you want about his keeping etc contributing. He was always a domestic bully who played a couple of fluke innings. Had Wahab Riaz opened and batted in HUNDREDS of games, I guarantee he would have a similar record to Kamran.
 
What a nonsense post. You need ‘elite talent to execute that’. Hahahahahahahaha

This is why Paul Sterling and Tim David are two of the most destructive batsmen in the world whilst representing associates at international level?!

Misbah fans have now found a new icon on Mohammad Rizwan. They will make all kinds of nonsense excuses to defend their idols! On the same UAE tracks, the revamped England side gave Pakistan a beating of a lifetime when they approached the game with an attacking mentality.

Pakistan still trying their outdated tricks of keeping wickets in hand and trying to score 100+ in the last ten

So please explain how you execute at a high level. I guess Butler just focuses solely on intent and that's what makes him great. Or is it because he is extremely dynamic and has the talent & ability to play shots most players cannot play? There's limitations on players on what they can & cannot do.

It's actually hilarious you think that was a good batting lineup when there's literally zero statistical backing of it.
 
So please explain how you execute at a high level. I guess Butler just focuses solely on intent and that's what makes him great. Or is it because he is extremely dynamic and has the talent & ability to play shots most players cannot play? There's limitations on players on what they can & cannot do.

It's actually hilarious you think that was a good batting lineup when there's literally zero statistical backing of it.

Are you telling me that you have statistical proof that Pakistan wanted to show intent during Misbah’s era but failed due to ability??
 
One thing i forgot to add was that misbah had to deal with a selector that did not agree with him. Misbah and the selectors always had issues. Misbah was disposing off umar akmal very ealier in odis but wasnt allowed to do si.

Many players that misbah couldnt play was because of the likes of iqbal qasim
 
LOL people find a way to blame/shoehorn Misbah into just about everything. Even if you were to make that argument, how does it apply to guys in domestic who have never even played under Misbah?

Batters are produced in domestic. There are usually selected after they have scored some runs. So if you are seriously insinuating that every batter in Pakistan's domestic circuit was looking at Misbah and getting inspired by "defeatist mindset" than you are stupid and don't know what you are talking about.

The answer to your question btw is that there was no one. There's a reason why England were a rubbish limited-overs side for a number of years and why New Zealand were the very definition of mediocre for so long. And it wasn't because of lack of trying.
 
LOL people find a way to blame/shoehorn Misbah into just about everything. Even if you were to make that argument, how does it apply to guys in domestic who have never even played under Misbah?

Batters are produced in domestic. There are usually selected after they have scored some runs. So if you are seriously insinuating that every batter in Pakistan's domestic circuit was looking at Misbah and getting inspired by "defeatist mindset" than you are stupid and don't know what you are talking about.

The answer to your question btw is that there was no one. There's a reason why England were a rubbish limited-overs side for a number of years and why New Zealand were the very definition of mediocre for so long. And it wasn't because of lack of trying.

Misbah did gave us harris sohail and sarfraz ahmad whether people want to accept this or not.

If the other youngsters couldnt perform underhim how is it his fault.

People will look for lame excuses to blame misbah
 
Pakistan didn't produce a single quality ODI batter between 2005-2010 either. Are we going to blame those years on Misbah too? Give a freakin break lol. It's amazing how some people are so blinded by their hate for Misbah that they lose any basis of rationality.
 
Misbah did gave us harris sohail and sarfraz ahmad whether people want to accept this or not.

If the other youngsters couldnt perform underhim how is it his fault.

People will look for lame excuses to blame misbah

I don't know if I agree on Sarfraz. Even at his peak during that period, the best he did was score a century against Ireland.

Haris Sohail though was and still is a quality ODI batter. And it was Misbah who backed him and made him a mainstay of the one day side towards the end of his ODI career.
 
Rizwan? Please. as good as he is in T20's he averages what 25 in ODI's? More like before Babar, Fakhar and Imam.

T20 and ODI are considered as LOI together. That's what I meant.

Rizwan, Babar, Imam, Fakhar, and Shaheen. The Big 5 of modern day Pakistan team.
 
I don't agree with some people blaming Misbah for not developing batsman. While I didn't love Misbah's approach to batting in modern ODI cricket, imo he was a great captain. Our bowling was always amazing under Misbah, you have to give him credit for his tactics in that department, no matter who the bowlers Misbah always got the best out of his bowlers. We did beat India in India, and South Africa in South Africa during this period. People need to give Misbah a break for his stint as Pakistan captain during a difficult time, while we weren't world beaters by any means we were competitive thanks to Misbah, and he also made us unbeatable in Tests in UAE. Mark my words you will never see the Pakistan Cricket team ever Dominate the Australia Test team the way we dominated in 2014. Furthermore, during a period when we had nobody close to averaging 40 in ODI cricket Misbah finished his career with an average of 44.
 
Pakistan didn't produce a single quality ODI batter between 2005-2010 either. Are we going to blame those years on Misbah too? Give a freakin break lol. It's amazing how some people are so blinded by their hate for Misbah that they lose any basis of rationality.
Exactly. Misbah was the only quality batsman that emrged during that time and after him there was a big void. The guy avg 44 in odi cricket
 
T20 and ODI are considered as LOI together. That's what I meant.

Rizwan, Babar, Imam, Fakhar, and Shaheen. The Big 5 of modern day Pakistan team.

That shouldn't be the case though. Some players are good for ODIs but not meant for T20s. Some are good for t20s but not really meant for ODIs.

In Rizwan's case although his game is meant for ODIs but age might be a factor hindering his case. He is 30 and yet to establish himself as a good ODI player.
 
Exactly. Misbah was the only quality batsman that emrged during that time and after him there was a big void. The guy avg 44 in odi cricket

He was the only one that reached any kind of international benchmarks either. He was the leading ODI run-scorer in 2013 and probably the only one who even got into the Top 10 ICC ODI batters rankings when he was ranked No. 7.
 
The best thing about it is that Misbah hoodwinked everyone in to believing that his team are a bunch of losers and he “the bichara hero” is working really hard to rescue this team.

We are really poor, we won’t score 150 without him.

300 is completely out of the question even against minnows.

Surprise surprise, first series after this bichara hero (with the heroic constipated look on his face “yaar I’m trying”), what happens? Pakistan start making scores of over 300.

1 year later they chase down a 300+ score against England

2 years later they win the champions trophy by scoring 338 in the final no less.

Utter humiliation for this fraud of a man.
 
The best thing about it is that Misbah hoodwinked everyone in to believing that his team are a bunch of losers and he “the bichara hero” is working really hard to rescue this team.

We are really poor, we won’t score 150 without him.

300 is completely out of the question even against minnows.

Surprise surprise, first series after this bichara hero (with the heroic constipated look on his face “yaar I’m trying”), what happens? Pakistan start making scores of over 300.

1 year later they chase down a 300+ score against England

2 years later they win the champions trophy by scoring 338 in the final no less.

Utter humiliation for this fraud of a man.

The team completely changed under Babar because with him, they actually had a reliable and a great batsmen who would often bat deep instead of the usual collapses we would see under unreliable batsmen like Shehzad/Akmal/Hafeez etc. Sharjeel was given a chance again after looking poor initially to start his career and started to flourish until the ban. Fakhar ultimately took over and has been one of the best openers in Pakistan history at this point.

It's been a huge change for Pakistan who mostly score their runs from 1-3 positions. Whereas prior, those 1-3 positions were the reason we would always lose.

This is not to say Misbah is blameless, he had a very poor SR himself along with the team but that is also because Misbah was an average ODI batsmen and the team around him was very poor. They struggled vs pace and could only feast on spin. Quite the change from that team nowadays whereas now it is bit of a struggle vs spin.
 
The team completely changed under Babar because with him, they actually had a reliable and a great batsmen who would often bat deep instead of the usual collapses we would see under unreliable batsmen like Shehzad/Akmal/Hafeez etc. Sharjeel was given a chance again after looking poor initially to start his career and started to flourish until the ban. Fakhar ultimately took over and has been one of the best openers in Pakistan history at this point.

It's been a huge change for Pakistan who mostly score their runs from 1-3 positions. Whereas prior, those 1-3 positions were the reason we would always lose.

This is not to say Misbah is blameless, he had a very poor SR himself along with the team but that is also because Misbah was an average ODI batsmen and the team around him was very poor. They struggled vs pace and could only feast on spin. Quite the change from that team nowadays whereas now it is bit of a struggle vs spin.

The flat wickets and two new balls are a big factor in modern day ODIs a prime Hafeez could open the innings today and have a decent average and strike rate of 90 plus others like Akmal could strike at near 100 batting in the top 4.

Take Imam back 10 years on the slower wickets which were more helpful for bowlers and he would struggle to strike at 70, also more teams are resting players and playing B teams which makes it even easier to score runs.
 
One thing i forgot to add was that misbah had to deal with a selector that did not agree with him. Misbah and the selectors always had issues. Misbah was disposing off umar akmal very ealier in odis but wasnt allowed to do si.

Many players that misbah couldnt play was because of the likes of iqbal qasim

Excellent the only young batsman who made it into the top 10 in ODI ranking Misbah took him out and brought in some all time greats like Shafiq Shehzad Azhar turning the Pakistan team into world beaters.
 
The flat wickets and two new balls are a big factor in modern day ODIs a prime Hafeez could open the innings today and have a decent average and strike rate of 90 plus others like Akmal could strike at near 100 batting in the top 4.

Take Imam back 10 years on the slower wickets which were more helpful for bowlers and he would struggle to strike at 70, also more teams are resting players and playing B teams which makes it even easier to score runs.

This is taking away credit for how good Fakhar/Imam/Babar have been. Shehzad was given every opportunity until 2017 when Fakhar was finally given a chance and the team has never looked back since.

Hafeez always struggled against the swinging ball and while that doesn't last for too long nowadays, those first few overs would still be a struggle for him.

Kamran Akmal couldn't even have a great SR in T20 and we saw as much in his comeback in 2017. I highly doubt he could maintain a 100 SR unless we're talking a 20 AVG.
 
This is taking away credit for how good Fakhar/Imam/Babar have been. Shehzad was given every opportunity until 2017 when Fakhar was finally given a chance and the team has never looked back since.

Hafeez always struggled against the swinging ball and while that doesn't last for too long nowadays, those first few overs would still be a struggle for him.

Kamran Akmal couldn't even have a great SR in T20 and we saw as much in his comeback in 2017. I highly doubt he could maintain a 100 SR unless we're talking a 20 AVG.

Umar Akmal I was talking about but Kamran would also improve his strike rate against weaker bowling on easy paced wickets.

Hafeez did struggle against the new ball but it’s minimal now and the fast bowlers are not the same quality with teams playing reserve attacks more and more.

To show the difference in tests and ODIs keep an eye on Imams average in both formats it will show everything as to why it’s easier than ever to score runs in ODIs.
 
One thing i forgot to add was that misbah had to deal with a selector that did not agree with him. Misbah and the selectors always had issues. Misbah was disposing off umar akmal very ealier in odis but wasnt allowed to do si.

Many players that misbah couldnt play was because of the likes of iqbal qasim

Oh yes, Misbah was restricted because of others (continues Amber Heard/ Elaine deflection tactic by Misbah fans)

We really saw how Pakistan was neglected Misbah’s genius in selection when he became the head coach/chief selector, and when all the power was under him didn’t we. Amazingly, he selected Muhammad Musa to represent Pakistan in a Test match against Australia in Australia. The genius of Misbah unleashed with no restrictions! Also how he randomly selected Ahmad Shahzad and Umar Akmal from out of nowhere, only to humiliate and discard them for good! What amazing insight to bring back Mohammad Irfan at the age of 37 into the side against Australia in T20s!
 
Oh yes, Misbah was restricted because of others (continues Amber Heard/ Elaine deflection tactic by Misbah fans)

We really saw how Pakistan was neglected Misbah’s genius in selection when he became the head coach/chief selector, and when all the power was under him didn’t we. Amazingly, he selected Muhammad Musa to represent Pakistan in a Test match against Australia in Australia. The genius of Misbah unleashed with no restrictions! Also how he randomly selected Ahmad Shahzad and Umar Akmal from out of nowhere, only to humiliate and discard them for good! What amazing insight to bring back Mohammad Irfan at the age of 37 into the side against Australia in T20s!

You followed one case in your life and where ever you dont agree withsomeone you inseart amber heard.

The rest of the post you made is about misbah the selector, while i would remind you to read the thread title and atleast post relevent
 
The best thing about it is that Misbah hoodwinked everyone in to believing that his team are a bunch of losers and he “the bichara hero” is working really hard to rescue this team.

We are really poor, we won’t score 150 without him.

300 is completely out of the question even against minnows.

Surprise surprise, first series after this bichara hero (with the heroic constipated look on his face “yaar I’m trying”), what happens? Pakistan start making scores of over 300.

1 year later they chase down a 300+ score against England

2 years later they win the champions trophy by scoring 338 in the final no less.

Utter humiliation for this fraud of a man.

Nicely summed up. The fear and lack of confidence in our ability under Misbah was so painful to see.
 
Misbah mentality for LOI cricket was not fit for modern day cricket where other teams left Pakistan cricket behind. However the fault was with PCB who persisted with Misbah in LOIs knowing he is a test specialists.

He was fairly consistent LOI batter however he never managed to score a 100 despite getting set on many occasions. His own mentality didnt let him score a LOI 100 where he would start playing shots way too late. Unfortunately the same mentality spread like virus to the whole team and squad during his era.
 
Unfair to blame Misbah solely for this as producing talent is the board's job. And the board was busy with rebuilding from the outcomes of the spot fixing saga and the Sri Lanka team attack.


Easy to blame it all on Misbah. However Pakistan was struggling because their cricket was limited to just 3 Stadiums in UAE, where they mostly had that low variable bounce where you can't bat freely (majority of matches were low scoring contests ). The UAE conditions not only affected the batsmen but also bowlers like Yasir Shah (who was a monster in UAE but mostly struggled elsewhere)

Pakistan became a one dimensional side they had to adjust whenever they played outside of UAE.
 
He saw teams like New Zealand, West Indies, Australia, India and South Africa evolve in white ball cricket yet he did nothing about it whatsoever!

He cannot complain that he didn’t have the right kind of players, his tactics were complete nonsense and the players were not pushed to achieve the heights reached by the McCullums and Gayles!

Misbah era Pakistan ODI XI that could have easily hit 340+ Per game if only they actually wanted to!

1. Sharjeel
2. Kamran
3. Umar Akmal
4. Hafeez
5. Malik
6. Misbah
7. Afridi
8. Tanvir
9. Wahab
10. Junaid
11. Ajmal

All of these guys were available

All of them could play modern white ball cricket!

We just never tried under Misbah and Waqar!

You really formed a great lineup with a perfect batting order.
But the problem was the captain and coach who still targets a 260 scores even against minnows and shows more confidence on mediocre batsmans than the genuine stroke makers.
 
You really formed a great lineup with a perfect batting order.
But the problem was the captain and coach who still targets a 260 scores even against minnows and shows more confidence on mediocre batsmans than the genuine stroke makers.

Don’t get me wrong, Misbah could adapt if he wanted to also. He was phenomenal in the first T20 World Cup.

Misbah could have become Morgan for Pakistan had he simply worked on his six hitting game like Morgan did. Misbah was more than capable of ending a spinner’s career by launching him for 6x6, he never ever tried!
 
Don’t get me wrong, Misbah could adapt if he wanted to also. He was phenomenal in the first T20 World Cup.

Misbah could have become Morgan for Pakistan had he simply worked on his six hitting game like Morgan did. Misbah was more than capable of ending a spinner’s career by launching him for 6x6, he never ever tried!
No, i got your point, what you wrote was absolutely correct. Misbah's game was ideally suited for number 6. If the platform is set he could go for hitting clean sixes in death overs and if the ship is sinking then he could play as a savior. But the problem with him was that he wants each and every player to bat the same way. And that mindset resulted into many wrong selections in the odi line up during his tenure and some real good batsmans were destroyed.
 
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