Why do some people want a Muslim Ummah to exist but still want to live in a state that is not governed by theology?

[Major]

Our respected poster @Bewal Express mentioned that he believes in Muslim Unit, as his reasoning is "you get picked off one by one and either they rule you directly or indirectly". Interestingly, Mr. Express lives in UK, a country that is not doctrine by religion in the 21st century.

Interestingly, these sentiments have been shared by many people. People living in Pakistan and by our fellow desis living in non theological states. While all of them want to leave Pakistan, but wherever they want to go, they want the concept of Muslim Ummah to exists

Now it makes you question, do these people want to bring countries like UK and USA under the umbrella of Shariah? If so, maybe the best solution is return to a country that is dictated by Shariah instead of enforcing a system on a already fine system that is running.

Or if they want Muslim Ummah concept to exist, why not go back to where they came from and enjoy living in a Muslim state and propose for them to join some Ummah?

I always found it interesting that most of these theological states failed and was the reason why alot of these people left these theological states (or there forefathers did), yet many of them want to revert back to the failed system?

By now, in the 21st century, i think many have realized that the concept of a Nation cannot exist on religion alone. You need to have something common to be able to rally behind a concept of a common nation. Either be it of a similar kind of suffering endorsed, a common story/problem, a common ethnic group etc. Bangladesh and Pakistan couldnt stay one under the name of religion alone, while Sindh and Punjab were able to stay one due to our common suffering/problem while growing up, but this unity took a very long time to develop and still can be made fragile, as right now the Pakistani identity is still in its grass roots and will take 100 more years to develop fully (I believe our identity is still Indian, and the Pakistani identity is only developing and will be much more mature and a standalone identity 100 years from now)

But even if a Muslim Ummah is to exist, how will a Pakistani and Saudi be united? The problems that a Pakistani faced is not same as the one that Saudi may have faced. The whole concept of Muslim unity/ummah/nation fails right here. How will you unite these countries if we are to accept the Muslim Ummah concept. Eventually every group will make its own group and do what the Arabs did with the Turks in 1800s again.

So anyways, you can ignore the above, lets keep it simple, why do some of you want Muslim Ummah to exist while you yourself reside in UK/USA/Canada? Do you want religious theology to be also introduced in the mentioned countries and than make them part of the Muslim Ummah? If a Muslim Ummah comes to exist, would you happily take immigration to those countries and be under the protected Ummah? (Not like Arab countries give out Nationality to non arabs)

 

[Bewal Express]

Our respected poster @Bewal Express mentioned that he believes in Muslim Unit, as his reasoning is "you get picked off one by one and either they rule you directly or indirectly". Interestingly, Mr. Express lives in UK, a country that is not doctrine by religion in the 21st century.

Interestingly, these sentiments have been shared by many people. People living in Pakistan and by our fellow desis living in non theological states. While all of them want to leave Pakistan, but wherever they want to go, they want the concept of Muslim Ummah to exists

Now it makes you question, do these people want to bring countries like UK and USA under the umbrella of Shariah? If so, maybe the best solution is return to a country that is dictated by Shariah instead of enforcing a system on a already fine system that is running.

Or if they want Muslim Ummah concept to exist, why not go back to where they came from and enjoy living in a Muslim state and propose for them to join some Ummah?

I always found it interesting that most of these theological states failed and was the reason why alot of these people left these theological states (or there forefathers did), yet many of them want to revert back to the failed system?

By now, in the 21st century, i think many have realized that the concept of a Nation cannot exist on religion alone. You need to have something common to be able to rally behind a concept of a common nation. Either be it of a similar kind of suffering endorsed, a common story/problem, a common ethnic group etc. Bangladesh and Pakistan couldnt stay one under the name of religion alone, while Sindh and Punjab were able to stay one due to our common suffering/problem while growing up, but this unity took a very long time to develop and still can be made fragile, as right now the Pakistani identity is still in its grass roots and will take 100 more years to develop fully (I believe our identity is still Indian, and the Pakistani identity is only developing and will be much more mature and a standalone identity 100 years from now)

But even if a Muslim Ummah is to exist, how will a Pakistani and Saudi be united? The problems that a Pakistani faced is not same as the one that Saudi may have faced. The whole concept of Muslim unity/ummah/nation fails right here. How will you unite these countries if we are to accept the Muslim Ummah concept. Eventually every group will make its own group and do what the Arabs did with the Turks in 1800s again.

So anyways, you can ignore the above, lets keep it simple, why do some of you want Muslim Ummah to exist while you yourself reside in UK/USA/Canada? Do you want religious theology to be also introduced in the mentioned countries and than make them part of the Muslim Ummah? If a Muslim Ummah comes to exist, would you happily take immigration to those countries and be under the protected Ummah? (Not like Arab countries give out Nationality to non arabs)

So the West( through NATO and EU) can be one, the communists can be another but we the Muslims aren't allowed to even to think of becoming one. On a practical level it won't happen because all these little dictatorships won't get access to a life of luxury and the power of life and death over innocent citizens. We have all these countries with no justice for the poor and are run for the benefits of the 1% where there is very little trickle down. Our Armies are more likely to fight each other than any invaders. The pathetic response towards the massacre of Palestinians will haunt our combined consciousness for decades. I am not a believer in war and wants peace because war leads innocent people being killed and maimed but you should have each others back.

 

[Major]

So the West( through NATO and EU) can be one, the communists can be another but we the Muslims aren't allowed to even to think of becoming one. On a practical level it won't happen because all these little dictatorships won't get access to a life of luxury and the power of life and death over innocent citizens. We have all these countries with no justice for the poor and are run for the benefits of the 1% where there is very little trickle down. Our Armies are more likely to fight each other than any invaders. The pathetic response towards the massacre of Palestinians will haunt our combined consciousness for decades. I am not a believer in war and wants peace because war leads innocent people being killed and maimed but you should have each others back.

NAFTA and EU are Economic unions that is a different concept compared to a Muslim Ummah.

You are confusing the concept of Muslim Ummah with an economic union.

In a Muslim Ummah, every nation will than have shariah dictating laws and constitution. You will have issues whether to have wahabi islam, sunni islam or shia islam.

The concept of Muslim Ummah is not related to economics, but more related to theology and how it should be part of the state.

Even if we are too assume for argument sake that Muslim Ummah would only be for economic purpose, the biggest fight that will break upon would be the interest rate issue where some would say there should be interest rates while other would want to change the whole economic school of thought without any research or theories to back it.

 

[Bewal Express]

NAFTA and EU are Economic unions that is a different concept compared to a Muslim Ummah.

You are confusing the concept of Muslim Ummah with an economic union.

In a Muslim Ummah, every nation will than have shariah dictating laws and constitution. You will have issues whether to have wahabi islam, sunni islam or shia islam.

The concept of Muslim Ummah is not related to economics, but more related to theology and how it should be part of the state.

Even if we are too assume for argument sake that Muslim Ummah would only be for economic purpose, the biggest fight that will break upon would be the interest rate issue where some would say there should be interest rates while other would want to change the whole economic school of thought without any research or theories to back it.

The EU isnt only an economic union, its also a political union where decisions on Foreign policy and other areas are jointly decided. And it will continue to get closer as the UK, which didnt want this, has left and doesnt have a veto anymore. I take the point of the Sunni, Shia etc interpretations but the basic tenets of Islam are the same and these schisms shoudnt stop close co-operation between the Muslim states. Sunnis arent going to change and nor are the Shia, so why not accept the differences. The Ummah will come when Allah wills but the Muslims are being eaten alive and we are willing participants in the cannibalism.