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Why do the 2 best batsmen of this generation rank Mohammad Amir so highly?

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Smudger

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I am genuinely curious. Steve Smith and Virat Kohli have said Amir is the best bowler they have faced. To me Amir has never really looked that threatening and has'nt troubled Kohli or Smith much apart from a one off spell to Kohli.
 
Smudger said:
I am genuinely curious. Steve Smith and Virat Kohli have said Amir is the best bowler they have faced. To me Amir has never really looked that threatening and has'nt troubled Kohli or Smith much apart from a one off spell to Kohli.
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And you have to keep in mind they both played him after the ban, when he wasn't the same bowler anymore (Smith played him a little bit in 2010).

It's because even after the ban he was brilliant in big games, big moments etc.
Kohli faced him in World Cup, Asia cup, Champions trophy and he was brilliant on all three occasions.

To me he was the 2nd/3rd best bowler in the last world cup.
Starc was the clear best. I will put Woakes as 2nd, as he was one of the rare fast bowler to took early wickets and Aamir as 3rd.
 
Mohammad amir is the best bowler in the world based on an opinion of the actually best players in the world.

For performance based best bowlers, look elsewhere.

Would be fun to know their opinions now though. lol.
 
Amir ko tabba kardiya sab ne phir kehte hain pace kidar gaya.

You have to look after your best bowler in best possible way to save them for important series and matches.

Champion Trophy Semifinal is a good example, Mickey rested him so he can play in the Final, he took a risk and it paid off in the end.


Misbah is complete unprofessional and so is Waqar younis, both are egoistic and useless people running top positions right now.

Amir is still a very good bowler for ODI and T20, its not like we play 14 test matches in a year, we hardly play 7-8 matches a year.

Plus Waqar has been a trouble maker for such a long time.
 
lahoriyah1234 said:
Amir ko tabba kardiya sab ne phir kehte hain pace kidar gaya.

You have to look after your best bowler in best possible way to save them for important series and matches.

Champion Trophy Semifinal is a good example, Mickey rested him so he can play in the Final, he took a risk and it paid off in the end.


Misbah is complete unprofessional and so is Waqar younis, both are egoistic and useless people running top positions right now.

Amir is still a very good bowler for ODI and T20, its not like we play 14 test matches in a year, we hardly play 7-8 matches a year.

Plus Waqar has been a trouble maker for such a long time.
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Amir was unfit during the CT17 semifinal. No risks taken.

Amir has also had lots of rest in the last year, but continues to bowl at 132kph. It is clear he has bigger issues in his bowling mechanics than simply being overbowled (he was indeed overbowled, but that’s not the entire story).

People conveniently forget that Amir was given a game against England in the T20s this year but he himself broke down with a hamstring injury, and then was outperformed by kids like Musa Khan in the national T20 cup.

Whatever Misbah thinks or doesn’t think, a perfectly rational and competent selector would have dropped Amir too.

As far as the opinion of Amir goes, he has always, always been a smart bowler. Even today, he’s the smartest bowler in Pakistan. This allows him to challenge the best of batsmen and make it tougher for them to do their work. When his body supports his genius, such as in high pressure moments where the adrenaline helps him overexert his body and achieve 140kph again, he is able to leave a mark on the likes of Kohli and Smith.

The problem is, Amir simply cannot sustain this kind of exertion and has thus had a relatively mediocre career post-comeback.
 
lahoriyah1234 said:
Amir ko tabba kardiya sab ne phir kehte hain pace kidar gaya.

You have to look after your best bowler in best possible way to save them for important series and matches.

Champion Trophy Semifinal is a good example, Mickey rested him so he can play in the Final, he took a risk and it paid off in the end.


Misbah is complete unprofessional and so is Waqar younis, both are egoistic and useless people running top positions right now.

Amir is still a very good bowler for ODI and T20, its not like we play 14 test matches in a year, we hardly play 7-8 matches a year.

Plus Waqar has been a trouble maker for such a long time.
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Well said. Which coach comes out and says publicly "Player X and Y gave us a dhoka" or implies they are a liar in a press conference ?

Every time he's involved as coach there's some controversy.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Amir was unfit during the CT17 semifinal. No risks taken.

Amir has also had lots of rest in the last year, but continues to bowl at 132kph. It is clear he has bigger issues in his bowling mechanics than simply being overbowled (he was indeed overbowled, but that’s not the entire story).

People conveniently forget that Amir was given a game against England in the T20s this year but he himself broke down with a hamstring injury, and then was outperformed by kids like Musa Khan in the national T20 cup.

Whatever Misbah thinks or doesn’t think, a perfectly rational and competent selector would have dropped Amir too.

As far as the opinion of Amir goes, he has always, always been a smart bowler. Even today, he’s the smartest bowler in Pakistan. This allows him to challenge the best of batsmen and make it tougher for them to do their work. When his body supports his genius, such as in high pressure moments where the adrenaline helps him overexert his body and achieve 140kph again, he is able to leave a mark on the likes of Kohli and Smith.

The problem is, Amir simply cannot sustain this kind of exertion and has thus had a relatively mediocre career post-comeback.
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Correct!
His action and body underneath are no longer good enough, which has resulted in a lowered baseline in terms of pace as well as swing. It is a testament to his bowling smarts that he is still relevant despite operating at such a terriblly low baseline.

In these big clashes he relies on the strength of the nervous system, which he cant do in low profile encounters because his brain cant find that motivation and arousal.
 
Last edited:
Markhor said:
Well said. Which coach comes out and says publicly "Player X and Y gave us a dhoka" or implies they are a liar in a press conference ?

Every time he's involved as coach there's some controversy.
Click to expand...

Waqar was the reason Pakistan performed poorly in 2003 WC, everyone had enough of his attitude and no one taking him seriously as he was v rude to everyone, he even mistreated saqlain Mushtaq and didn’t play him against india and Australia matches.

V v poor choice I don’t know how he got a coaching position again.
 
Smudger said:
I am genuinely curious. Steve Smith and Virat Kohli have said Amir is the best bowler they have faced. To me Amir has never really looked that threatening and has'nt troubled Kohli or Smith much apart from a one off spell to Kohli.
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Could you please back this up with a source ? What exactly did they say and when, I think it is very important to get that context. Mohammad Amir has been good in patches, but his attitude to his dropping (which I feel was fair) has been horrible.
 
It was interesting to listen to Amir’s interview with Kamran Akmal.

He mentioned a moment in the LPL where after one of his better spells where he had decent rhythm, Moin Khan took him aside and said “today’s the first time I’ve seen the old Amir, back. It felt like I was watching the 2009/10 Amir”.

Amir said he couldn’t get that out of his head and in the next few matches he was back to bowling quicker with more rhythm and pace touching 145k on occasion.

Seems like he’s a bowler that needs motivation, appreciation and arm round the shoulder.

Cynically, it might seem that he’s a bit needy or a bit weak to require that, but that’s where a good leader comes in. This is the art of man management. The coach/captain etc needs to have the capability to know what motivates each player. It’s their job to get the most out of him if he’s not doing it himself.
 
TheSultan said:
It was interesting to listen to Amir’s interview with Kamran Akmal.

He mentioned a moment in the LPL where after one of his better spells where he had decent rhythm, Moin Khan took him aside and said “today’s the first time I’ve seen the old Amir, back. It felt like I was watching the 2009/10 Amir”.

Amir said he couldn’t get that out of his head and in the next few matches he was back to bowling quicker with more rhythm and pace touching 145k on occasion.

Seems like he’s a bowler that needs motivation, appreciation and arm round the shoulder.

Cynically, it might seem that he’s a bit needy or a bit weak to require that, but that’s where a good leader comes in. This is the art of man management. The coach/captain etc needs to have the capability to know what motivates each player. It’s their job to get the most out of him if he’s not doing it himself.
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Interesting post. Reminds me of the ongoing Ozil saga at Arsenal.

Like Ozil though, Amir needs to grow up and realise that this game isn't going to only provide the perfect times and the perfect moments to play. He needs to learn to ride the rough with the smooth and unfortunately we've seen him run away from the challenge that national selection is currently posing for him. He can moan all he wants about why he's been frozen out but its within his own grasp to get selected again if he wants it.
 
TheSultan said:
It was interesting to listen to Amir’s interview with Kamran Akmal.

He mentioned a moment in the LPL where after one of his better spells where he had decent rhythm, Moin Khan took him aside and said “today’s the first time I’ve seen the old Amir, back. It felt like I was watching the 2009/10 Amir”.

Amir said he couldn’t get that out of his head and in the next few matches he was back to bowling quicker with more rhythm and pace touching 145k on occasion.

Seems like he’s a bowler that needs motivation, appreciation and arm round the shoulder.

Cynically, it might seem that he’s a bit needy or a bit weak to require that, but that’s where a good leader comes in. This is the art of man management. The coach/captain etc needs to have the capability to know what motivates each player. It’s their job to get the most out of him if he’s not doing it himself.
Click to expand...

There weren’t any speedguns. That 145kph is also in his head until he replicates that on a scanner (next opportunity to do so is the PSL).

Amir has always been someone who has needed an arm around the shoulder from a mentor or father figure. It has been his greatest strength and his greatest weakness.

Read about Amir’s story if you can, from his mother, to Asif Bajwa, to Mudassar Nazar, to Shahid Afridi and unfortunately Salman Butt, and finally to Mickey Arthur.

Amir has had an exceptionally tough, in some ways traumatic life. I have my reservations with some of his statements over the last year and don’t fully excuse him even now for the spot fixing scandal, but I have tremendous respect for the way he’s weathered countless storms.

Through this, there have been countless figures that helped guide him through like a parent might, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Moin recently helped motivate Amir in a similar way.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
There weren’t any speedguns. That 145kph is also in his head until he replicates that on a scanner (next opportunity to do so is the PSL).

Amir has always been someone who has needed an arm around the shoulder from a mentor or father figure. It has been his greatest strength and his greatest weakness.

Read about Amir’s story if you can, from his mother, to Asif Bajwa, to Mudassar Nazar, to Shahid Afridi and unfortunately Salman Butt, and finally to Mickey Arthur.

Amir has had an exceptionally tough, in some ways traumatic life. I have my reservations with some of his statements over the last year and don’t fully excuse him even now for the spot fixing scandal, but I have tremendous respect for the way he’s weathered countless storms.

Through this, there have been countless figures that helped guide him through like a parent might, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Moin recently helped motivate Amir in a similar way.
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He did hit 145 once. I saw that, although that still doesn't point to the fact that his body is equipped to bowl at that speed or close to it regularly.
 
Dunno about Smith, but are you sure Kohli said this.

When Amir returned after his ban, I recall Virat saying Amir could have been top 3 in the world had he not been banned.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
He did? Which match was this?
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Yes. It was a bouncer if I am not wrong. Dont remember the match obviously.
But it was the only delivery that was registered at that speed.
The next fastest was around 139 or 140 kph.

His fastest deliveries during the LPL used to hover around 139,138 region, therefore that 145kph was an outlier, and just a case of his action clicking without him knowing how.
 
Mobashir said:
To me he was the 2nd/3rd best bowler in the last world cup.
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Amir didn't take early wickets and he was definitely not amongst top 5 fast bowlers.
He was bowling with the same defensive mindset that he has been showing since last three years or so.

Starc
Archer
Shami
Bumrah
Ferguson

All of them were better

But apart from this argument of yours i agree with everything you said.
Amir is one if the most difficult bowlers to score against and at his best he is a dream bowler.
Seam movement at 140+ kph is rare.

Amir's performance against india has been tremendous and Virat has played Amir at his best.
Don't know why Smith rates him coz i dont remember any great spell of Amir, againat Smith.
 
Peak Amir was something else.
Its not just smith or kohli. Warner and watson rate him very very highly too.
He has had these moments of genuis like the opening over of the world t20 final. England test series. Ct17. I remember he was all over sehwag in one of his opening overs in an asia cup encounter..
Amir at his best was as good as anyone.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Amir didn't take early wickets and he was definitely not amongst top 5 fast bowlers.
He was bowling with the same defensive mindset that he has been showing since last three years or so.

Starc
Archer
Shami
Bumrah
Ferguson

All of them were better

But apart from this argument of yours i agree with everything you said.
Amir is one if the most difficult bowlers to score against and at his best he is a dream bowler.
Seam movement at 140+ kph is rare.

Amir's performance against india has been tremendous and Virat has played Amir at his best.
Don't know why Smith rates him coz i dont remember any great spell of Amir, againat Smith.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Smith played against Amir during the 2009 and 2010 series - Amir was a different beast then
 
ethan hunt said:
Peak Amir was something else.
Its not just smith or kohli. Warner and watson rate him very very highly too.
He has had these moments of genuis like the opening over of the world t20 final. England test series. Ct17. I remember he was all over sehwag in one of his opening overs in an asia cup encounter..
Amir at his best was as good as anyone.
Click to expand...

Yep. And he's blatantly nowhere near the same bowler now. I don't know whether it is poor attitude or he's just burned out, but he looks about 70% of the bowler he was pre-ban. My own personal view is that he was all talent and not much dedication. I get the feeling he could get back to his best if he was prepared to put in the hard work, but he isn't motivated to play for Pakistan. I mean that was probably the reason he sold out in the first place.
 
It's out of sympathy. You have to be generous and give the opposition some credit. And when the opposition is Pakistan, not a lot of options to choose from.
 
Hard for some people to accept this fact but Mohammad Amir is among the greatest new white ball bowlers of all time from Pakistan since 2006.
 
Mainly because he humiliated Kohli in an ICC KO game, a spell which still gives him and the rag heads plenty of nightmares.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Amir was unfit during the CT17 semifinal. No risks taken.

Amir has also had lots of rest in the last year, but continues to bowl at 132kph. It is clear he has bigger issues in his bowling mechanics than simply being overbowled (he was indeed overbowled, but that’s not the entire story).

People conveniently forget that Amir was given a game against England in the T20s this year but he himself broke down with a hamstring injury, and then was outperformed by kids like Musa Khan in the national T20 cup.

Whatever Misbah thinks or doesn’t think, a perfectly rational and competent selector would have dropped Amir too.

As far as the opinion of Amir goes, he has always, always been a smart bowler. Even today, he’s the smartest bowler in Pakistan. This allows him to challenge the best of batsmen and make it tougher for them to do their work. When his body supports his genius, such as in high pressure moments where the adrenaline helps him overexert his body and achieve 140kph again, he is able to leave a mark on the likes of Kohli and Smith.

The problem is, Amir simply cannot sustain this kind of exertion and has thus had a relatively mediocre career post-comeback.
Click to expand...

I agree with the analysis of the problem, but I think there's a lack of clarity on the specific issue that Amir has.

Till now, nobody knows what injury or condition is preventing Amir from bowling fast. He claims that it's a shoulder problem caused by workload, but no player on the team nor has any member of the management verified this information with a report that he was overbowled resulting in an injury.

Till we get the specifics of the situation, we really don't know what is happening. Is an injury scare the reason why he's bowling slower, or is it because he is already carrying an injury and hasn't recovered properly? Till these questions are answered, we won't know why there's such a misunderstanding.
 
UzmanBeast said:
I agree with the analysis of the problem, but I think there's a lack of clarity on the specific issue that Amir has.

Till now, nobody knows what injury or condition is preventing Amir from bowling fast. He claims that it's a shoulder problem caused by workload, but no player on the team nor has any member of the management verified this information with a report that he was overbowled resulting in an injury.

Till we get the specifics of the situation, we really don't know what is happening. Is an injury scare the reason why he's bowling slower, or is it because he is already carrying an injury and hasn't recovered properly? Till these questions are answered, we won't know why there's such a misunderstanding.
Click to expand...

If it's an injury problem, why wouldn't he or the team management just come clean? From what I've read, he's been criticised for not bowling at full speed by members of the coaching set up, why would they do that if he was carrying an injury?
 
In tests at least, reckon it’s those regular 140k spells that have gone missing from his armoury - last time I can recall him doing so was 2018, when he took those wickets of Malan and Bairstow in quick succession - second one was a beauty.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
If it's an injury problem, why wouldn't he or the team management just come clean? From what I've read, he's been criticised for not bowling at full speed by members of the coaching set up, why would they do that if he was carrying an injury?
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That's exactly my point. I have sympathy for Amir because it could be that his body is very stiff, and that he's genuinely trying, but so far, nobody from the management nor any player who played with him in recent times, has suggested an injury.

What worries me is that his pace is slowly reducing, it's not improving at all. He's only 28 years of age, and this should not be happening.

One thing I know is that both the PCB and Amir need to see eye-to-eye, establish some understanding as to what the expectations are, and that includes Amir answering why his pace is down, and what he will do to improve it. There is no option where PCB blindly brings him back, at 132 kph, I would not want him near the white-ball team occupying a spot where a youngster could shine.

For the time being, our ODI bowling attack deserves to be: Shaheen, Shinwari, and Hasnain/Haris.

In T20I, it should be Shaheen, Haris, and Faheem/Hasnain.
 
UzmanBeast said:
I agree with the analysis of the problem, but I think there's a lack of clarity on the specific issue that Amir has.

Till now, nobody knows what injury or condition is preventing Amir from bowling fast. He claims that it's a shoulder problem caused by workload, but no player on the team nor has any member of the management verified this information with a report that he was overbowled resulting in an injury.

Till we get the specifics of the situation, we really don't know what is happening. Is an injury scare the reason why he's bowling slower, or is it because he is already carrying an injury and hasn't recovered properly? Till these questions are answered, we won't know why there's such a misunderstanding.
Click to expand...

It’s not an injury or condition. It’s a set of technical issues in Amir’s loadup that he has never been able to fix after being banned in 2010. When he came back in 2016, he was bowling at the same pace due to stronger muscles but a “weaker” action. In other words, in 2016 he was at the peak age for a fast bowler and was thus bowling faster, than he should be, but if he was able to optimize his action with an Australian bowling analyst, he would be able to increase his 140-145kph speed to 145-150kph.

Now, as his body gets more fatigued and he grows older as well, the fact that Amir has not restored his technicals to what they were in 2010 has exposed his speed. Nothing to do with injury.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
It’s not an injury or condition. It’s a set of technical issues in Amir’s loadup that he has never been able to fix after being banned in 2010. When he came back in 2016, he was bowling at the same pace due to stronger muscles but a “weaker” action. In other words, in 2016 he was at the peak age for a fast bowler and was thus bowling faster, than he should be, but if he was able to optimize his action with an Australian bowling analyst, he would be able to increase his 140-145kph speed to 145-150kph.

Now, as his body gets more fatigued and he grows older as well, the fact that Amir has not restored his technicals to what they were in 2010 has exposed his speed. Nothing to do with injury.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he should have worked with professionals about his action.

Well said.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Amir was unfit during the CT17 semifinal. No risks taken.

Amir has also had lots of rest in the last year, but continues to bowl at 132kph. It is clear he has bigger issues in his bowling mechanics than simply being overbowled (he was indeed overbowled, but that’s not the entire story).

People conveniently forget that Amir was given a game against England in the T20s this year but he himself broke down with a hamstring injury, and then was outperformed by kids like Musa Khan in the national T20 cup.

Whatever Misbah thinks or doesn’t think, a perfectly rational and competent selector would have dropped Amir too.

As far as the opinion of Amir goes, he has always, always been a smart bowler. Even today, he’s the smartest bowler in Pakistan. This allows him to challenge the best of batsmen and make it tougher for them to do their work. When his body supports his genius, such as in high pressure moments where the adrenaline helps him overexert his body and achieve 140kph again, he is able to leave a mark on the likes of Kohli and Smith.

The problem is, Amir simply cannot sustain this kind of exertion and has thus had a relatively mediocre career post-comeback.
Click to expand...

Well analyzed. I wonder if Amir also has neglected the hard work of getting the necessary exercise needed to stay fit. Seems to have a motivation problem.

I do think he is the best Pakistani bowler I have seen bowl to India in their infrequent LOI matches with Pakistan.
 
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