Why don’t Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan bat in the middle order in T20Is?

[Dr_Bassim]

Everyday, I hear fans arguing Pakistan has the worst middle over possible. We continously, recycle, reshuffle middle order and still can't seem to find the right combination.

Yet these 2 middle order batsmen masquerade as openers because it gives them time to play at their own pace and improve their averages. This would have been acceptable if Pakistan had a gun middle order, but out middle order is fragile as nails.

We have identified that middle order is making Pakistan under-perform and not reach desired targets.

There are a few questions for Babar fans tonight and Babar himself.

1. If indeed, Babar and Rizwan are the best batsmen for Pakistan to stave off collapses and get Pakistan to respectable scores, why don't they drop down the order and help the fragile middle order and build in the middle?

2. Why do they insist on opening when their help is required in the middle order?

3. Why can't they replicate their success in the middle considering they are ATGs of T20 based on 40 plus averages.

4. The entire purpose of playing in the team is to adjust in such a way that the team can win. Why do fans feel proud these 2 have scored when the final result is a brutal loss like tonight?

Are we Pakistan fans then?

Some tough questions to be answered tonight.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

If the middle to late order was reliable than opening with Rizwan and Babar would make sense but we are collapsing after the 10th over.

They need to come in at 4/5 or 6 so they can take the innings home. 80 runs in the first 10 overs with Babar and Rizwan in the dugout is capping us out at 160.

Worst case they still have to tuk tuk their way to 160 and best case we can start making 200+. Don't even need to worry about the bowling because scoreboard pressure will take care of that.

 

[Rana]

Because all the RizBar stakeholders know that the show is over as soon as these two step into positions outside of the powerplay.

You would be surprised, they will be inferior to players like Iftikhar, Khushdil and Asif Ali if they are forced to bat in those positions.

They won’t ever dare to play in those positions, and the strong lobby of stakeholders behind them will not allow them to do so either.

 

[mominsaigol]

Because all the RizBar stakeholders know that the show is over as soon as these two step into positions outside of the powerplay.

You would be surprised, they will be inferior to players like Iftikhar, Khushdil and Asif Ali if they are forced to bat in those positions.

They won’t ever dare to play in those positions, and the strong lobby of stakeholders behind them will not allow them to do so either.

The funny thing is, Bairstow an opening batter is batting at 4 in t20 simply because he isn't as good a striker as butler, Salt and jacks irrespective of those 3 and what they avg.

Deapite that no problem, as every single England player has geared themselves to bat at any order. England literally took brooks over Roy because Brooks can bat anywhere from 1 to 7, same with Ali, Bairstow and livingstone.

But their all lower because they know in t20, you're best strikers play at the top period.

In Pakistan the concept of fakhar opening is alien. Those 210, 193 in odi mean nothing as he sucked 4 years ago. And cricket is a ps5 simulation.

 

[Technics 1210]

i do support India,

We already knew this.

 

[Rana]

We already knew this.

What’s wrong with it? They are a passionate cricket nation. They love and understand the game. Their fans want to play the game in the right way. What is your issue with Cricket fans appreciating cricket?

 

[Technics 1210]

What’s wrong with it? They are a passionate cricket nation. They love and understand the game. Their fans want to play the game in the right way. What is your issue with Cricket fans appreciating cricket?

Nothing wrong with supporting India unless you pretend to support Pakistan.

 

[Rana]

Nothing wrong with supporting India unless you pretend to support Pakistan.

Erm

I don’t pretend to support Pakistan. I have clearly been Anti Babaristan for a long, long time. Where have I pretended to support Pakistan in T20 and to some extent the ODI side?

 

[heddie19]

Threads to follow:

Why doesn't Rohit Sharma bat in the middle order having previously failed there?
Why Warner doesn't bat in middle order?
Why doesn't Shaheen starts bowling his first over in death?
Why is Amir selected in the WC squad?
Why Azam Khan is a cricketer?
Why Mohsin Naqvi is illegtimate Interior Minister + Senator + Chairman PCB?
Why is cricket not played with a bigger size ball?
Why does Rizwan averages 49?
Why does Babar never stop scoring?
Why does Babar always silent his cricitcs?

 

[mominsaigol]

Threads to follow:

Why doesn't Rohit Sharma bat in the middle order having previously failed there?
Why Warner doesn't bat in middle order?
Why doesn't Shaheen starts bowling his first over in death?
Why is Amir selected in the WC squad?
Why Azam Khan is a cricketer?
Why Mohsin Naqvi is illegtimate Interior Minister + Senator + Chairman PCB?
Why is cricket not played with a bigger size ball?
Why does Rizwan averages 49?
Why does Babar never stop scoring?
Why does Babar always silent his cricitcs?

1) Rohit in Bangladesh series in 2022 and early 2023 batted at no 7 and scored 50+. He opens because hes the best PP player in the world in odi. He faiked way way back in 2011 to 2012 which is 12 years ago so nice try.

2) Warner has batted at no 3 and at no 4, he opens because he's the best opener since Gilchrist with only now Travis head coming along as a worthy replacement.

3) Considering how he shaheen gets butchered in PP, maybe its not a bad idea.

4) You may answer that for me.

5) He ain't, Moin Khan nepotism.

6) Again you can answer your own question.

7) Better question, why does heddie exist when he's a waste of space.

9) C string bashing

10) 2022 wc t20

11) again 2022 wc t20

 

[BouncerGuy]

You guys really need to stop having personal conversations here.

This thread is not meant to make personal remarks on anybody.

Please stay on topic and do not comment such personal stuff again.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

No hate but Babar cant bat in middle order. He is not a six hitter and his best chance to score boundaries is in powerplay. He waits for wide and over-pitch balls to find gaps in infield. He cant enforce himself on spinners and death bowlers like Iftikhar can.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Everyday, I hear fans arguing Pakistan has the worst middle over possible. We continously, recycle, reshuffle middle order and still can't seem to find the right combination.

Yet these 2 middle order batsmen masquerade as openers because it gives them time to play at their own pace and improve their averages. This would have been acceptable if Pakistan had a gun middle order, but out middle order is fragile as nails.

We have identified that middle order is making Pakistan under-perform and not reach desired targets.

There are a few questions for Babar fans tonight and Babar himself.

1. If indeed, Babar and Rizwan are the best batsmen for Pakistan to stave off collapses and get Pakistan to respectable scores, why don't they drop down the order and help the fragile middle order and build in the middle?

2. Why do they insist on opening when their help is required in the middle order?

3. Why can't they replicate their success in the middle considering they are ATGs of T20 based on 40 plus averages.

4. The entire purpose of playing in the team is to adjust in such a way that the team can win. Why do fans feel proud these 2 have scored when the final result is a brutal loss like tonight?

Are we Pakistan fans then?

Some tough questions to be answered tonight.

Very valid questions.

In the name of experimentation they should have trialled this over the past years.

Every position was experimented with apart from this.

Now we may have ended up at the conclusion that yes they are best served as openers but until we have tried everything we cannot say this conclusively.

 

[Usman Chadda]

You guys really need to stop having personal conversations here.

This thread is not meant to make personal remarks on anybody.

Please stay on topic and do not comment such personal stuff again.

It’s fun to laugh at them once in a while, but when every thread is about Babar and Rizwan

 

[Master Blaster]

Why would the most stats padding, records loving duo in the world want to bat outside their comfort zone?

 

[PakPremi]

Yes why not so we can see scores of 10 with 3 wickets down in 3 overs regularly.
Address the issue it's not the opening, it's the middle order but that is Babar's and team coach fault for not selecting the right players, middle tol lower order should had been Fakhar, Usman, Asman, Iftikhar, Imad, Jamal, no room for Shadab and the liability Azim Khan.

 

[MANU ROY]

Babar and Rizwan are seniors one of them should take the responsibility and bat in number 3

 

[Rana]

Babar and Rizwan are seniors one of them should take the responsibility and bat in number 3

That’s not what their stakeholders want

 

[Mamoon]

Everyday, I hear fans arguing Pakistan has the worst middle over possible. We continously, recycle, reshuffle middle order and still can't seem to find the right combination.

Yet these 2 middle order batsmen masquerade as openers because it gives them time to play at their own pace and improve their averages. This would have been acceptable if Pakistan had a gun middle order, but out middle order is fragile as nails.

We have identified that middle order is making Pakistan under-perform and not reach desired targets.

There are a few questions for Babar fans tonight and Babar himself.

1. If indeed, Babar and Rizwan are the best batsmen for Pakistan to stave off collapses and get Pakistan to respectable scores, why don't they drop down the order and help the fragile middle order and build in the middle?

2. Why do they insist on opening when their help is required in the middle order?

3. Why can't they replicate their success in the middle considering they are ATGs of T20 based on 40 plus averages.

4. The entire purpose of playing in the team is to adjust in such a way that the team can win. Why do fans feel proud these 2 have scored when the final result is a brutal loss like tonight?

Are we Pakistan fans then?

Some tough questions to be answered tonight.

Name your batting order and explain why it would be more successful than Babar and Rizwan opening together.

 

[Kroll]

Saint Riz doesn't have the power game or technique to play as middle order batsman that's why he's given opener slot.

 

[Mamoon]

Saint Riz doesn't have the power game or technique to play as middle order batsman that's why he's given opener slot.

I agree, and Fakhar was an abject failure as a T20I opener but he is doing well at number 4.

Rizwan is better as an opener than he is in the middle-order and the opposite is true for Fakhar, and that is where they are playing. People shouldn’t have a problem with it.

 

[mazkhan]

I guarantee you if babar and rizwan didn't open against wood and archer who were bowling 95mph and Dr bassims favourites opened England would have run through the top order in no time apart from fakhar there is no other batsmen apart from babar and rizwan who can bat in top 3.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Name your batting order and explain why it would be more successful than Babar and Rizwan opening together.

I am not naming a perfect order but with what we have, this is what I am going with.

Fakhar (license to attack)
Usman ( license to attack)
Babar
Rizwan (ideally shouldnt be in team and can swap with Ifti positions).
Iftikhar ( no other realistic option in team)
Imad
Shadab or Azam (again I would rather not have both but dont see any real option)
Amir
Shaheen
Naseem
Abrar

This team has greater chance of a successful power play.

Plus if they fail as openers, your beloved middle order can be stabilized by Babar and Rizwan world class batsmen.

We saw how Pakistan had an amazing opening partnership of 60 and then collapsed once these 2 left. So these two should be looking to maximize their playing time by coming in middle and taking responsibility.

What is the point of scoring even 60 in 6 overs and crashing to 150 all out.

Lets try being either 80-2 in 6 with these 2 to take the team home or being 14-2 in 2 overs with these 2 having chance to build till 16 overs.

But obviousy, vested interests wont let it happen.

 

[Mamoon]

I am not naming a perfect order but with what we have, this is what I am going with.

Fakhar (license to attack)
Usman ( license to attack)
Babar
Rizwan (ideally shouldnt be in team and can swap with Ifti positions).
Iftikhar ( no other realistic option in team)
Imad
Shadab or Azam (again I would rather not have both but dont see any real option)
Amir
Shaheen
Naseem
Abrar

This team has greater chance of a successful power play.

Plus if they fail as openers, your beloved middle order can be stabilized by Babar and Rizwan world class batsmen.

We saw how Pakistan had an amazing opening partnership of 60 and then collapsed once these 2 left. So these two should be looking to maximize their playing time by coming in middle and taking responsibility.

What is the point of scoring even 60 in 6 overs and crashing to 150 all out.

Lets try being either 80-2 in 6 with these 2 to take the team home or being 14-2 in 2 overs with these 2 having chance to build till 16 overs.

But obviousy, vested interests wont let it happen.

You lost me at Fakhar, who has roughly the same SR as Babar and Rizwan as a T20I opener and who failed miserably in the PSL.

There is no case for Fakhar to open ahead of either Babar or Rizwan in T20s.

Saim Ayub had his chance and he blew it. You can try Usman as well, but you will keep returning to this pair because no one is prepared to do better than these two.

 

[mon858]

The issue isn't whether babar and rizwan should bat middle overs the bigger issue is who is there that is better as openers. Unfortunately, our alternatives are simply not good enough based on rough sample size.

I honestly feel Babar has transformed and lately playing much more aggressive. He should take one of the opening slots and bat maximum overs.

His partner should ideally be a leftie, one of Saim, Fakhar, or Saud.

Saim has failed in his chances, he should continue working on weaknesses and maybe he can still come good given 3 more chances max.

Fakhar was not doing well as opener in recent past and doing great now as number 4 which also takes care of providing one good aggressive middle order player who can handle spin and clear the ropes. I would say leave him there.

Saud did reasonable in PSL, trying to transform himself a bit, which is also good for his ODI game in future. Can perhaps take a chance on him if Saim failed in final few chances and give him 4 games or so to see how he fares.

Usman is another one to try but honestly seems he is a true hack but maybe that's okay for t20. So we could try him.

Lastly, leaves with problem of where Rizwan bats and who keeps if he is dropped. He has done enough to continue to play. He can be put at number 3 and play normally at 8 rpo or so would be fine. He keeps. Drop Azam. Backup option bring back Haris in future. Haris needs a bit more development maybe plays more first class and list A or A team tours and then takes over long term for t20 keeper slot. Usman is not good enough to be primary keeper though he may still be better than Azam.

So something like below is what I would suggest:

1. Babar
2. Saim/Saud/Usman
3. Rizwan
4. Fakhar
5. Iftikhar
6. Salman Agha
7. Haider Ali / Haris
8. Imad
9. Amir
10. Shaheen
11. Haris / Abbas

For turning wickets play Abrar or Usama and push Imad one place up.

 

[mumtaz]

You lost me at Fakhar, who has roughly the same SR as Babar and Rizwan as a T20I opener and who failed miserably in the PSL.

There is no case for Fakhar to open ahead of either Babar or Rizwan in T20s.

Saim Ayub had his chance and he blew it. You can try Usman as well, but you will keep returning to this pair because no one is prepared to do better than these two.

That's spot on. If you are prepared to put Fakhar there, why not also put Saim back as well. After all, performance is not a criteria.

Fakhar works as an ODI opener because he mainly sees the new ball off before teeing off. In T20s, he feels the need to manufacture a get out shot after a string of dots. He is doing better at 3 and 4 because the new ball is already seen off and he can play without muddled thinking.

Personally, I would actually play Saim instead of Azam or Shadab.

 

[Rana]

Personally, I would actually play Saim instead of Azam or Shadab

Why not pick Shaheen to bat at 6 instead of Shadab or Azam to have a slog? If that’s the route you want to go?

 

[shariqnoor]

Everybody has their own position to bat. What's this strange logic that if someone isn't performing in the middle order then the openers should move there? If Australia's middle order starts failing, should Australia ask Warner to bat at number 5?

The reality of the situation is that both Babar and Rizwan are not players who can strike at 150+ from the outset and that is what is required from the middle order. I have always said that if Babar and Rizwan are not opening, then they cannot be in the team at all. They are useless from number 4 onwards.

Yesterday, Babar and Rizwan scored at 10 RPO in the powerplay. It may not be sufficient given what has transpired over the last couple of months in T20 and what the trajectory of batting is, but it is still much better than what any other Pakistani batsmen have produced. The rest of the team batted at 7 RPO. How is the defeat Babar and Rizwan's fault when they scored at 10 RPO but the middle order succumbed to 157 all out? This obsession that Fakhar is somehow going to be a beast in the Powerplay is nothing but fantasy. His SR is not much better than Babar and Rizwan in the Powerplay. Saim has been given a lot of chances and has proved to be a failure.

If Babar shifts to 4 and Rizwan to 5, then who are our openers? Fakhar with his mid-130s SR as opener and Saim who cannot last more than 2 overs? We'd be 60-3 by the 7th over and then do you want Babar and Rizwan to come in to bat at 130 SR because that is what they will do now that they are already 3 down? At one point you criticize Babar and Rizwan for their SR's yet at the same time advocate for them to come in the middle order where you require a SR of 150+ which they cannot do. How is that even logical?

Anyone who suggests Babar and Rizwan to bat in the middle order for Pakistan has zero analytical skills. Both of them are going to be a colossal failure and it will only perpetuate Pakistan's demise. Given the changing dynamics of T20, it is understood that a good Powerplay consists of scoring 70 at the minimum and Babar and Rizwan do not score that many. But it is also not possible to have Buttler and Salt or Head and Warner bat for Pakistan as openers. These two are seemingly the best in Pakistan and that is what we have to deal with. The board decided to give Saim the chance to break this partnership but he instead broke his own chances. Fakhar has reinvented himself in the middle order and has been magnificent in the middle overs so why would you want to disturb that?

Pakistan's talent levels are at its lowest. There are no capable batters in the country who can emulate modern-day cricket. Babar and Rizwan will fail as openers but they fail relatively less than all the other options out there.

 

[Rana]

Everybody has their own position to bat. What's this strange logic that if someone isn't performing in the middle order then the openers should move there? If Australia's middle order starts failing, should Australia ask Warner to bat at number 5?

The reality of the situation is that both Babar and Rizwan are not players who can strike at 150+ from the outset and that is what is required from the middle order. I have always said that if Babar and Rizwan are not opening, then they cannot be in the team at all. They are useless from number 4 onwards.

Yesterday, Babar and Rizwan scored at 10 RPO in the powerplay. It may not be sufficient given what has transpired over the last couple of months in T20 and what the trajectory of batting is, but it is still much better than what any other Pakistani batsmen have produced. The rest of the team batted at 7 RPO. How is the defeat Babar and Rizwan's fault when they scored at 10 RPO but the middle order succumbed to 157 all out? This obsession that Fakhar is somehow going to be a beast in the Powerplay is nothing but fantasy. His SR is not much better than Babar and Rizwan in the Powerplay. Saim has been given a lot of chances and has proved to be a failure.

If Babar shifts to 4 and Rizwan to 5, then who are our openers? Fakhar with his mid-130s SR as opener and Saim who cannot last more than 2 overs? We'd be 60-3 by the 7th over and then do you want Babar and Rizwan to come in to bat at 130 SR because that is what they will do now that they are already 3 down? At one point you criticize Babar and Rizwan for their SR's yet at the same time advocate for them to come in the middle order where you require a SR of 150+ which they cannot do. How is that even logical?

Anyone who suggests Babar and Rizwan to bat in the middle order for Pakistan has zero analytical skills. Both of them are going to be a colossal failure and it will only perpetuate Pakistan's demise. Given the changing dynamics of T20, it is understood that a good Powerplay consists of scoring 70 at the minimum and Babar and Rizwan do not score that many. But it is also not possible to have Buttler and Salt or Head and Warner bat for Pakistan as openers. These two are seemingly the best in Pakistan and that is what we have to deal with. The board decided to give Saim the chance to break this partnership but he instead broke his own chances. Fakhar has reinvented himself in the middle order and has been magnificent in the middle overs so why would you want to disturb that?

Pakistan's talent levels are at its lowest. There are no capable batters in the country who can emulate modern-day cricket. Babar and Rizwan will fail as openers but they fail relatively less than all the other options out there.

Yeah let’s just not improve

 

[Technics 1210]

Yeah let’s just not improve

Your idea of improving is selecting Azam Khan.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Everybody has their own position to bat. What's this strange logic that if someone isn't performing in the middle order then the openers should move there? If Australia's middle order starts failing, should Australia ask Warner to bat at number 5?

Merits of the Babar and Rizwan aside that scenario that you are calling strange logic pretty much what happened to Pakistan when Babar and Rizwan were raised to the top.

 

[Rana]

Your idea of improving is selecting Azam Khan.

If it means he is the best option for that position, yes I am.

 

[Technics 1210]

Merits of the Babar and Rizwan aside that scenario that you are calling strange logic pretty much what happened to Pakistan when Babar and Rizwan were raised to the top.

The most famous being Jayasuriya of SL.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The most famous being Jayasuriya of SL.

True.

Pakistan team is going round in circles.

I do agree that Babar and Rizwan have done ok at the top......but over this two year period we definitely should have experimented more with the order.

It may not have worked. But bilateral T20 is all about experimentation.

 

[Technics 1210]

If it means he is the best option for that position, yes I am.

How and why is Azam Khan the best option for any position?

 

[shariqnoor]

Merits of the Babar and Rizwan aside that scenario that you are calling strange logic pretty much what happened to Pakistan when Babar and Rizwan were raised to the top.

Babar was always a number 3 player hence a top-order player. Kohli is a number 3 player and opens for RCB. Steve Smith used to open for Sydney. Number 3's can easily open. Rizwan was shuffled to the top as an experiment and it worked similar to how Fakhar was moved to number 4 and it worked. It has been seen that Rizwan is a complete dud in the middle order so why would anyone want him to be in the middle order?

 

[cricketmania22]

I’m not a strong supporter of Babar and Rizwan as the opening pair, but we don't have players like Buttler, Warner, or Travis Salt available. We've tried many openers in the last five overs, and none have been successful. Saim was given a fair chance, but he turned out to be a total failure. The only option left is to play Usman as an opener instead of Babar. Since in the last match, Babar and Usman have both performed well as an opener and number three, respectively, it makes little sense to swap them now.

Additionally, neither Babar nor Rizwan is suited for the number four position. They lack the ability to start hitting from the first ball and need time to settle in.

Fakhar Zaman is doing well at number four. He was unsuccessful as an opener in T20Is, so it's hard to understand why anyone would want to move him back to that position when he's performing well at number four. Looking at recent history, Fakhar had a poor 2024 PSL, and even in the 2023 PSL, where he did well, his strike rate in the power play was only 128. In almost all matches, his strike rate improved after the power play. I'm not sure why people think he will the bowlers into oblivion during the power play period.

 

[Usman Chadda]

If it means he is the best option for that position, yes I am.

Azam Khan could never be the best for ANY position.

He is not fit to play international cricket, no half-decent bowler will let him score runs.

 

[Rana]

How and why is Azam Khan the best option for any position?

Who is then?

Let’s hear your views. Who should bat at that position?

 

[Rana]

Azam Khan could never be the best for ANY position.

He is not fit to play international cricket, no half-decent bowler will let him score runs.

Well who should bat in his position?

 

[Misia]

I am not naming a perfect order but with what we have, this is what I am going with.

Fakhar (license to attack)
Usman ( license to attack)
Babar
Rizwan (ideally shouldnt be in team and can swap with Ifti positions).
Iftikhar ( no other realistic option in team)
Imad
Shadab or Azam (again I would rather not have both but dont see any real option)
Amir
Shaheen
Naseem
Abrar

This team has greater chance of a successful power play.

Plus if they fail as openers, your beloved middle order can be stabilized by Babar and Rizwan world class batsmen.

We saw how Pakistan had an amazing opening partnership of 60 and then collapsed once these 2 left. So these two should be looking to maximize their playing time by coming in middle and taking responsibility.

What is the point of scoring even 60 in 6 overs and crashing to 150 all out.

Lets try being either 80-2 in 6 with these 2 to take the team home or being 14-2 in 2 overs with these 2 having chance to build till 16 overs.

But obviousy, vested interests wont let it happen.

I would much prefer Saim over Azam Khan especially the way he was just swinging away at the heavens, Yeah, he has power, but it doesn't mean anything if you're not connecting. yesterday against Rashid he was just swinging blind for no reason, and then topped that of with the dropped catches.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Babar and Rizwan can't be of any good for us in the middle order in this format.

 

[Rana]

Babar and Rizwan can't be of any good for us in the middle order in this format.

So they are liabilities?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Compulsions especially Babar, Rizwan on the other hand as an opener is still of great utility for us.

So they are liabilities?

 

[Rana]

Compulsions especially Babar, Rizwan on the other hand as an opener is still of great utility for us.

So they are not a problem? They are on par with world T20 openers?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So they are not a problem? They are on par with world T20 openers?

No they are not on par with them, but at the moment bro like it or not Rizwan is our second best batter after Fakhar and about Babar he is just there because of his captain status

 

[Rana]

No they are not on par with them, but at the moment bro like it or not Rizwan is our second best batter after Fakhar and about Babar he is just there because of his captain status

So, they can play because they are not on par…

But guys like Azam, Shadab, Iftikhar, Fakhar better be as good as world superstars in those positions or they will be the problem?

So Ahmad Shahzad was right? These guys are in the team to divert attention from the flaws of Babar and Rizwan?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The thing is they all are responsible for the failure. One can't just made a specific player or players as escape goat

So, they can play because they are not on par…

But guys like Azam, Shadab, Iftikhar, Fakhar better be as good as world superstars in those positions or they will be the problem?

So Ahmad Shahzad was right? These guys are in the team to divert attention from the flaws of Babar and Rizwan?

 

[Rana]

The thing is they all are responsible for the failure. One can't just made a specific player or players as escape goat

No I think the two undroppable guys are more accountable

They have played 98 and 118 T20is

They have the burden of accountability. They play 36 balls where 2 fielders are outside as opposed to 5. They are 1000% more accountable than the others.

 

[Kroll]

I’m not a strong supporter of Babar and Rizwan as the opening pair, but we don't have players like Buttler, Warner, or Travis Salt available.

Why not? Top 5 sides are rolling these types of hitters of the conveyor belt. Don't think Travis Salt was born with any extraordinary batting gifts. What is it, the coaching, the grassroots, the culture?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

No I think the two undroppable guys are more accountable

They have played 98 and 118 T20is

They have the burden of accountability. They play 36 balls where 2 fielders are outside as opposed to 5. They are 1000% more accountable than the others.

but when u will have the players like Azam Khan, Iftikhar and shadab in middle trust me even warner and head will start taking a pressure of it, not justifying babar/riz way of playing but these 3 are the actual headaches.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Because they are not middle order batters. Babar can probably try and fit at like no. 4 or 5 position depending on the role. Whether he comes in a situation to whack it all or in an innings building phase. Not to mention he plays pace better than spin.

Rizwan is a more limited player than Babar so there's that.

All these threads and questions are not the right way to question Pakistan Cricket. It should all begin with the head. The Chairman. Why leadership has changed 4-5 times in like 2 years? If we can answer that and fix that (also fixing the part of elections for the chairman of PCB). Then we can proceed down the peck and fix the things down the chimney.

 

[Rana]

but when u will have the players like Azam Khan, Iftikhar and shadab in middle trust me even warner and head will start taking a pressure of it, not justifying babar/riz way of playing but these 3 are the actual headaches.

That’s speculation

When you have players of that quality, their energy resonates on everyone around them. There is a reason why these players thrive in league cricket but seem to be restrained when playing under Babar Azam

 

[Technics 1210]

Who is then?

Let’s hear your views. Who should bat at that position?

I would pull a class of 92 on this team, of course you wouldn't know what this means.

Get back to defending why Fakhar should open instead of Babar, should be fun with the numbers against you.

 

[mominsaigol]

but when u will have the players like Azam Khan, Iftikhar and shadab in middle trust me even warner and head will start taking a pressure of it, not justifying babar/riz way of playing but these 3 are the actual headaches.

Bro I have given people proper replacements dozens of times, People are delusional amd acting like these 3 MO bats are the reason we need Babar and rizwan.

Domestic players come from poverty and try to improve daily, so do local coaches. As if they fail they go back to poverty. They don't have the luxury of being a cake boy.

Once you start playing proper fc, list A and t20 bats in proper positions you'll get results.

1) Shabzada Farhan is a proper opener who has amazing FC, List A and t20 records and outperformed saim in acc by miles, yet he played at no 7 and then got discarded. In fact farhan has played over 50+ Fc and 60+ List A games while saim has played like 15 only. He's the guy you want groomed as he's mature and has experience.

2) Same with abdullah shafiq, saud shakeel, Tayyab tahir, Salman Agha, These lads are proper Middle order batters and in no universe can usman khan, azam, Shadab, and chacha ever outperform them in any format in any position. You also have omair bin yousaf, qasim akram and various others rising through.

Only issue is Muhammad haris who sadly doesn't have fc experience under his belt, but he has way more experience then azam khan and usman khan as well as proper captaincy experience as well in List A and T20. He was never gonna do worse then these 2 irrespective of his current form

It doesn't take rocket science to discover that someone like qasim akram who averages 33 and sr of 92 with the bat at no 6/7 in List A and similar no in t20 and wickets with an eco of 7.42 in t20 would be superior to shadab who in List A averages 25 and a sr of 89 with an eco of nearly 8 in t20 and his wicket column is hilarious.

On what basis does shadab make it over various allrounders in domestic when they consistently outperform him in the same 2nd tier domestic leagues against the same opposition?

And you're expecting him to compete at no 5 WITH THE ENTIRE PLANET? which includes the likes of Brooks, Maxwell, Klaseen?

 

[cricketmania22]

Why not? Top 5 sides are rolling these types of hitters of the conveyor belt. Don't think Travis Salt was born with any extraordinary batting gifts. What is it, the coaching, the grassroots, the culture?

I believe the biggest issue right now is player development. Smaller cities lack proper grounds, state-of-the-art cricket academies, and good coaches. It is essential to have coaches who understand modern cricket and can train planners accordingly. Unfortunately, our coaches tend to be reactive rather than proactive, which is why we have been playing catch-up in limited-overs cricket since 2007. We still haven’t adopted techniques like the golf swing to hit sixes, which requires a biomechanics machine and a biomechanics expert, or at least a coach who understands this approach.

Regarding the issue of catching up, our cricket has consistently been ten years behind since 2007. While we have won a few series and performed well at times, these successes are isolated events rather than evidence of consistent performance. During the 2010-2020 period, when teams were scoring and chasing 350 and sometimes 400 runs with ease, we were still struggling to score over 300. In T20 cricket, when the par score was 175-195, we were scoring around 150-160. When the par score rose above 200, we are managing to score 175-180. It's not that we don’t understand modern cricket, rather, we lack the skills to execute it. By the time we catch up, cricket evolves, and a new benchmark becomes the par score. Our bowlers still haven't figured out death bowling after the introduction of two new balls. They are not as bad as our batsmen, but still they have fallen behind.

Another issue is that none of our players take it upon themselves to work hard and develop their skills. We don't have a culture where individuals self-examine their mistakes and improve.

I remember before the 2007 World Cup, Matthew Hayden was dropped from the Australian limited-overs team because he was struggling to score runs at a higher strike rate. He developed a release shot, which was a pickup shot from the hip. He practiced that shot in scorching heat for hours outside in the stadium because he wanted to see the actual field and boundaries.

The point is, how many of our batsmen do that? Nine seasons of the PSL have gone by, and I haven't seen a single player who has looked better than in the previous season. People have been complaining about Rizwan and Babar's strike rates for a while, but neither of them has added any new shots to their repertoire. Rizwan got his place back after developing that leg-side pickup shot, but once he was back in the team, he didn’t develop any other release shot. Now he feels like he doesn't have to work hard anymore.

Abdullah Shafiq is another player with a very good foundation, but we haven't seen any improvement in him from one season to the next.

 

[Technics 1210]

According to stats provided by the ICC, Rizwan and Azam have scored more than 2800+ runs in T20Is in the span of just 5 years,[97] making them the world's best opening pair in T20I cricket history.[98]

 

[heddie19]

The first ever cricketing duo wikipedia page guys. Rizwan Babar are Wasim and Waqar of this era. Period. Yes. I know some haters aren't able to sleep after 60 run stand yesterday

RizBar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mominsaigol]

The first ever cricketing duo wikipedia page guys. Rizwan Babar are Wasim and Waqar of this era. Period. Yes. I know some haters aren't able to sleep after 60 run stand yesterday

RizBar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 144146

Was this page made by you.

 

[heddie19]

Was this page made by you.

Try making a page on Wikipedia

 

[mominsaigol]

Try making a page on Wikipedia

Anyone can make a page on Wikipedia lol, literally anyone. You just need it approved by moderators but they won't approve it if they think its useless like if you make a wiki about you or some troll page.

But this is a wiki on 2 famous people and an opening combo, so why can't someone like you or technics make it? Or are the 2 of you so useless that you don't know how to operate the Internet?

 

[gazza619]

Name me two batters who should open?

The no see shot maker Saim Ayub didnt quite work.

 

[mominsaigol]

Name me two batters who should open?

The no see shot maker Saim Ayub didnt quite work.

My team is very simple

Openers

1) Shabzada farhan
2) Fakhar zaman
3) Abdullah shafiq
4) Sharjeel Khan

Middle order

1) Tayyab Tahir
2) Agha Salman
3) Saud Shakeel
4) Babar Azam
5) Muhammad Haris
6) Imad Wasim

Spinners

1) Zafar Gohar
2) Abrar Ahmed

Pacers

1) Shaheen
2) Mohammad Ali
3) Haris Rauf (He's fine at death)

Reserves

1) Amir
2) Usman Tariq
3) Usman Khan


^^ Take this team and you'll get in semi finals atleast, Uss kei baad Allah Allah Khair Salla.

 

[BouncerGuy]

My team is very simple

Openers

1) Shabzada farhan
2) Fakhar zaman
3) Abdullah shafiq
4) Sharjeel Khan

Middle order

1) Tayyab Tahir
2) Agha Salman
3) Saud Shakeel
4) Babar Azam
5) Muhammad Haris
6) Imad Wasim

Spinners

1) Zafar Gohar
2) Abrar Ahmed

Pacers

1) Shaheen
2) Mohammad Ali
3) Haris Rauf (He's fine at death)

Reserves

1) Amir
2) Usman Tariq
3) Usman Khan


^^ Take this team and you'll get in semi finals atleast, Uss kei baad Allah Allah Khair Salla.

I know you don't like Babar and RIzwan but not naming them in your team is not fair (If rizwan is not opening then I agree that he should be dropped).

I also know that you don't care about stats as well, but RIZ/BABAR is the best combo that we got atm. Sharjeel ??? joking right?

The middle order looks ok though. Babar and Rizwan will not do any good in the middle order and that is reality. Babar can bat at 3 for sure but rizwan has no place in the team if he is not opening. And with just 1 specialist keeper in the team, no good at all. Always need a backup for it.

 

[mominsaigol]

I know you don't like Babar and RIzwan but not naming them in your team is not fair (If rizwan is not opening then I agree that he should be dropped).

I also know that you don't care about stats as well, but RIZ/BABAR is the best combo that we got atm. Sharjeel ??? joking right?

The middle order looks ok though. Babar and Rizwan will not do any good in the middle order and that is reality. Babar can bat at 3 for sure but rizwan has no place in the team if he is not opening. And with just 1 specialist keeper in the team, no good at all. Always need a backup for it.

If you see my squad it includes Bobby in it.

And why is it not fair? Bro stats without context and meaning are irrelevant. People are going all the way back to 2016-2021 for Bobby. 2022 Bobby sucked and in 2023 he's basically a pindi basher. The fact he hasn't scored a century overseas or heck scored a 50 against top sides f9r 2 years now shows how badly out of form he is, it doesn't help his fitness is now that of a dad bod rather then the fit player he was.

Rizwan is not a t20 player, their is nothing he can do at opening that provides any value over farhan, Shafiq, Saud, Sharjeel or any of them, and no I am not joking fir sharjeel, I've seem how he has been performing in the president Cup and how fit he's gotten, at the moment he's fitter them half our dad bod team especially azam being the shining example.

And yes only 1 specialist keeper, if haris gets injured usman khan is the reserve and can play, but one specialist keeper is enough.

Bobby is in my team but rizwan has no place, rizwan is a guy who had stellar 2020-2021 in opening but his legside fraud would have been exposed eventually just like how imam's weakness against short ball would have been exposed after a while. Saim is already getting exposed with his legside shot so bowlers bowl him their.

2022-2024 ges been beyond poor and requires c string teams to function. Theirs a reason England spinners get rid of him 24/7

 

[BouncerGuy]

Bobby is in my team but rizwan has no place

Babar in the middle order is like playing a tailender. Babar is no middlee order guy. He is more of a number 3 if not an opener. It would not any favor to this team because Babar lacks power hitting needed for middle order in T20s.

Rizwan if not an opener then yes, he has no place in this team.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar in the middle order is like playing a tailender. Babar is no middlee order guy. He is more of a number 3 if not an opener. It would not any favor to this team because Babar lacks power hitting needed for middle order in T20s.

Rizwan if not an opener then yes, he has no place in this team.

Bro then why even complain about the lack of Bobby and rizzu?

The squad combination I'm going for is

1) Shabzada Farhan/ Sharjeel Khan
2) Fakhar Zaman
3) Saud Shakeel
4) Tayyab Tahir
5) Salman Ali Agha
6) Muhammad Haris
7) Imad Wasim
8) Zafar Gohar
9) Shaheen
10) Rauf
11) Ali

This way you have 2 aggressive options and if these 2 kick off the PP then Muhammad haris can be promoted at no 3, Tayyab at 4 and inad at 5 to finish the game or innings.

But if the openers fail then saud and salman must be promoted to steady thing.

Plus these 2 can bowl and aren't timid or scared to attack like bobby is in t20.

The team I have suggested murders the current team 5-0 in a t20 series and is more then capable of atleast making It to semi's and pulling an upset.

Granted this team is still outmatches against Australia, West Indies, England etc but

 

[Energy]

Merits of the Babar and Rizwan aside that scenario that you are calling strange logic pretty much what happened to Pakistan when Babar and Rizwan were raised to the top.

That's right it was experimental. But you could also say that prior to that, Shehzad had been failing at the top and Fakhar, et al weren't doing enough.

Rizwan has taken his opportunity and established himself as a reliable batsman who gives you 50 runs consistently at 130 SR. This is not a poor statistic from any rubric.

In the previous game, Pakistan folded for 97 runs in 14 overs. If Usman, Fakhar, Azam, Shadab, Iftikhar took responsibility we could have easily got 8-9rpo in those 14 overs and end up at 180. They didn't need to do anything extraordinary. In fact all they needed to do was sensible batting. If they upped a notch and batted at 10 rpo we would have reached 200.

That's 5 batting positions compromised for 60 runs collectively. SR aside, it's not enough runs to inspire confidence and faith in their batting abilities to begin with. That is the root of the problem- 3 batsmen selected in the squad cannot bat like batsmen.

No team in the world is carrying sub 10/15 averaging pure batsmen. It's a crime. SR discussion therefore is an irrelevant fantasy.

 

[mominsaigol]

That's right it was experimental. But you could also say that prior to that, Shehzad had been failing at the top and Fakhar, et al weren't doing enough.

Rizwan has taken his opportunity and established himself as a reliable batsman who gives you 50 runs consistently at 130 SR. This is not a poor statistic from any rubric.

In the previous game, Pakistan folded for 97 runs in 14 overs. If Usman, Fakhar, Azam, Shadab, Iftikhar took responsibility we could have easily got 8-9rpo in those 14 overs and end up at 180. They didn't need to do anything extraordinary. In fact all they needed to do was sensible batting. If they upped a notch and batted at 10 rpo we would have reached 200.

That's 5 batting positions compromised for 60 runs collectively. SR aside, it's not enough runs to inspire confidence and faith in their batting abilities to begin with. That is the root of the problem- 3 batsmen selected in the squad cannot bat like batsmen.

No team in the world is carrying sub 10/15 averaging pure batsmen. It's a crime. SR discussion therefore is an irrelevant fantasy.

First of, Shadab, Azam and chacha are not international material. You have proper Middle order players such as tayyab tahir sitting at home to accommodate azam and chacha and a taike ending fraud of shadab.

These guys ain't ever gonna bat responsibly because their not batsmen to begin with.

Also usman scored more and at a higher pace then both babar and rizwan did in the previous game so idkw you mentioned or included him, how was he suppose to bat responsibly when eickets kept falling and we reached pur tail? All he could do was tuk tuk or attack and get out in that situation. He ain't a maxwell and shaheen ain't a pat cumminga

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Bro then why even complain about the lack of Bobby and rizzu?

The squad combination I'm going for is

1) Shabzada Farhan/ Sharjeel Khan
2) Fakhar Zaman
3) Saud Shakeel
4) Tayyab Tahir
5) Salman Ali Agha
6) Muhammad Haris
7) Imad Wasim
8) Zafar Gohar
9) Shaheen
10) Rauf
11) Ali

This way you have 2 aggressive options and if these 2 kick off the PP then Muhammad haris can be promoted at no 3, Tayyab at 4 and inad at 5 to finish the game or innings.

But if the openers fail then saud and salman must be promoted to steady thing.

Plus these 2 can bowl and aren't timid or scared to attack like bobby is in t20.

The team I have suggested murders the current team 5-0 in a t20 series and is more then capable of atleast making It to semi's and pulling an upset.

Granted this team is still outmatches against Australia, West Indies, England etc but

This team wont make 100 runs against any top team 5 out of 10 times.

Saud Shakeel is a test and ODI player, Farhan is not international class, Fakhar flopped when he opened in t20s.
The others are just no namers.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Bro then why even complain about the lack of Bobby and rizzu?

The squad combination I'm going for is

1) Shabzada Farhan/ Sharjeel Khan
2) Fakhar Zaman
3) Saud Shakeel
4) Tayyab Tahir
5) Salman Ali Agha
6) Muhammad Haris
7) Imad Wasim
8) Zafar Gohar
9) Shaheen
10) Rauf
11) Ali

This way you have 2 aggressive options and if these 2 kick off the PP then Muhammad haris can be promoted at no 3, Tayyab at 4 and inad at 5 to finish the game or innings.

But if the openers fail then saud and salman must be promoted to steady thing.

Plus these 2 can bowl and aren't timid or scared to attack like bobby is in t20.

The team I have suggested murders the current team 5-0 in a t20 series and is more then capable of atleast making It to semi's and pulling an upset.

Granted this team is still outmatches against Australia, West Indies, England etc but

Babar is an established player at an opening position or number 3. How can you play him in the middle order when he is more suited to the top order. Makes no sense brother.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar is an established player at an opening position or number 3. How can you play him in the middle order when he is more suited to the top order. Makes no sense brother.

Because he isn't t20 standard. He either holds the wall whike someone from the other end attacks or he doesn't play period

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

The first ever cricketing duo wikipedia page guys. Rizwan Babar are Wasim and Waqar of this era. Period. Yes. I know some haters aren't able to sleep after 60 run stand yesterday

RizBar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 144146

The 60 run stand ended in a loss and England chased the score in 15 overs, even Rizbar's so called dashing wasn't good enough.
Both Rizwan and Babar are essential for the team but they are not an iconic partnership, the standard of Pakistani batting is too low if their partnership is being held as iconic.

None of them have a fifth gear, Babar is literally the worst top order batsman in terms of hitting sixes, Rizwan cant go berserk at any point. They have a lot of weaknesses and they are just an average duo in t20s.

 

[mominsaigol]

This team wont make 100 runs against any top team 5 out of 10 times.

Saud Shakeel is a test and ODI player, Farhan is not international class, Fakhar flopped when he opened in t20s.
The others are just no namers.

Right because shadab, Azam and chacha are the greatest MO bats for Pakistan and saim is totally an international class bat and rizzu and Bobby are t20 prodigies with SR not even reaching 130.

 

[Rana]

Babar is an established player at an opening position or number 3. How can you play him in the middle order when he is more suited to the top order. Makes no sense brother.

Babar plays at 3

We settle here?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Babar plays at 3

We settle here?

Yeah he can. Why not. If he has to play, he should play.

 

[Rana]

Yeah he can. Why not. If he has to play, he should play.

Yes he plays at 3 only. Do you agree?

 

[Mamoon]

The 60 run stand ended in a loss and England chased the score in 15 overs, even Rizbar's so called dashing wasn't good enough.
Both Rizwan and Babar are essential for the team but they are not an iconic partnership, the standard of Pakistani batting is too low if their partnership is being held as iconic.

None of them have a fifth gear, Babar is literally the worst top order batsman in terms of hitting sixes, Rizwan cant go berserk at any point. They have a lot of weaknesses and they are just an average duo in t20s.

I won’t call them iconic but 152-0 was the most iconic partnership in history of Pakistan T20 cricket and it something that no one can ever take from them.

People can hate on this pair but they have produced moments that will go down in the folklore of Pakistan cricket and the same Pakistani fans who work overtime to criticize this pair have also celebrated those moments.

They get way too much hate. They are not without their problems but when you look at Pakistan’s history with openers, their pair has been a godsend and I am glad that sanity has prevailed just in time for the World Cup and they are back.

 

[PakPremi]

My team is very simple

Openers

1) Shabzada farhan
2) Fakhar zaman
3) Abdullah shafiq
4) Sharjeel Khan

Middle order

1) Tayyab Tahir
2) Agha Salman
3) Saud Shakeel
4) Babar Azam
5) Muhammad Haris
6) Imad Wasim

Spinners

1) Zafar Gohar
2) Abrar Ahmed

Pacers

1) Shaheen
2) Mohammad Ali
3) Haris Rauf (He's fine at death)

Reserves

1) Amir
2) Usman Tariq
3) Usman Khan


^^ Take this team and you'll get in semi finals atleast, Uss kei baad Allah Allah Khair Salla.

You seriously having a hack and below average wicket keeper like Mohd Haris over excellent keeper Rizwan who also has played numerous top inni gs for Pakistan.

 

[mominsaigol]

You seriously having a hack and below average wicket keeper like Mohd Haris over excellent keeper Rizwan who also has played numerous top inni gs for Pakistan.

Yes