Why hasn't India ever been able to produce a true express fast bowler?

[tyron_woodley]

I will always maintain that javagal srinath was a top class fast bowler!!
The best that india has ever produced(yes better than bumra).

If he was pakistani he would be in the top group of pak bowlers, just behind imran, wasim, waqar and atkhar.
Better than amir, sami, gul, wahab, sohail, tanvir, irfan ,shaheen, husnain(though the last two are young and may end up better than srinath).

no. bumrah is better and has more potential. bumrah if he keeps his form up he will end up being better than steyn.

steyn>> waqar imo because his peak lasted longer. in tests ofcourse.

odi I will always choose waqar over steyn.

steyn is the greatest test bowler ever imo.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I have seen him since he made his debut. He was not express. He was fast. He was never a 155 k bowler. Tait, Lee, Akhtar breached that top speed of well over 155 several times in the same match. Having said that pace bowling is not just about clock speed. It is about how the batsmen feel. As i explained Bumrah's 140k is quicker than 140k from any other bowlers because he releases the ball well beyond the crease. So it is quicker. Each bowler has their own style of hurrying the batsmen.

kind of mcgrath hey? he had that ability too. He only bowled medium pace ish. but he was always difficult to face. He had a wicked bounce.

 

[jnaveen1980]

kind of mcgrath hey? he had that ability too. He only bowled medium pace ish. but he was always difficult to face. He had a wicked bounce.

Uncomfortable length. It introduces an uncertainty. And also he is very very clever. He alters the length to introduce doubts.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Uncomfortable length. It introduces an uncertainty. And also he is very very clever. He alters the length to introduce doubts.

it's crazy to imagine how good these pros like bumrah mcgrath are at altering lengths. That's insane. Like these dudes can just decide what length to bowl and the ball lands precisely on that predetermined spot. Not to mention the awkward bounce.

These bowlers are far more lethal than the express pace merchants.

in saying that as a fan I love express bowlers hey especially those that have the ability to bounce batsmen out.

Right now only bumrah, rabada, lockie and cummins have that ability. Starc is more of a Yorker specialist. Pakistam have SSA but I haven't seen him bowl deadly bouncers yet.
Hopefully he does in the future.

 

[PakLFC]

rofl waqar was never express. He was fast. just like a cummins, bumrah or a rabada. He wasn't starc level consistent.
even fodder bowlers cam bowl a one off 150 plus bowl. even steyn was quicker than waqar.

look at the amout of workload for these indian bowlers compared to other nations in general. Actually most top teams have an enormous workload compared to past eras. So it's understandable why they are cautious about bowling at express speeds. India play the most number of games per year out of all elite test cricket playing nations. if indian and paksiatn bowlers had ample rest like starc did prior to the world cup then you will be able to see them produce more pure express speedsters. Its just not possible with the amount of cricket they play at thr momemt.

Who are these so called pundits? varun aaron bowls fast consistently but he is trash.

Steyn may be faster then Waqar however our lad was grease lightening at his peak. So now it is the fault of workloads that you have not produced a speedster!!? That may be true today but not in in 80's and 90's when you failed to produce a a fast one too....and no Kapil was not that either. Well play less Cricket then if it means you'll produce a Marshall or Holding. You don't have it in you to produce one at root level so stop making cheap excuses. Pundits like Holding, Akram and other fast bowlers turned commentators have never called any Indian as a "great fast bowler".

 

[Captain caveman]

no. bumrah is better and has more potential. bumrah if he keeps his form up he will end up being better than steyn.

steyn>> waqar imo because his peak lasted longer. in tests ofcourse.

odi I will always choose waqar over steyn.

steyn is the greatest test bowler ever imo.

Steyn is a great bowler, but no one was better than waqar befire his injuries.
He was ranked no. 1 bowler in the world at the time of akram, donald, bishop, curtly etc.
He averaged under 21.
He bowled at 90 - 95 mph!
But of course injuries take their toll!!

Bumra is a good bowler, but i think indians over rate him. Hes not in the same league as waqar or steyn!

 

[tyron_woodley]

Steyn may be faster then Waqar however our lad was grease lightening at his peak. So now it is the fault of workloads that you have not produced a speedster!!? That may be true today but not in in 80's and 90's when you failed to produce a a fast one too....and no Kapil was not that either. Well play less Cricket then if it means you'll produce a Marshall or Holding. You don't have it in you to produce one at root level so stop making cheap excuses. Pundits like Holding, Akram and other fast bowlers turned commentators have never called any Indian as a "great fast bowler".

80s and 90s. speed gun wasn't advanced. I highly doubt they were express. shoaibh, lee and tait are the only true express pace bowlers.

I agree india had trundler in 80s and even 90s. things are changing though. Post 2010 we have seen a lot of fast bowlers coming through. express will be hard to achieve though. There will always be a few bowlers who can bowl express but none that can sustain it for long periods due to workload. This is true for all nations.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Steyn is a great bowler, but no one was better than waqar befire his injuries.
He was ranked no. 1 bowler in the world at the time of akram, donald, bishop, curtly etc.
He averaged under 21.
He bowled at 90 - 95 mph!
But of course injuries take their toll!!

Bumra is a good bowler, but i think indians over rate him. Hes not in the same league as waqar or steyn!

not yet but he has potential is what I am saying. I love steyn though hey. I have never seen a bowler as good as him in tests ripping through teams on flat wickets. incredible player.

waqar pre injuries was great and that's all fine lol but many players were great pre injury. Consistency and ability to sustain bowling fast for long periods is a key factor. Lee even post injuries bowled fast.
shoaibh even with all his deficiencies bowled fast. legendary bowler. I still remember how waqar got jealous when shoaibh used to be praised for his express pace. He even ousted him out of the team and called him a choker when shoaibh was doing all the legwork for the team.

and bunrah isn't overrated whatsoever
dude is ****ing seriously good.

 

[Captain caveman]

not yet but he has potential is what I am saying. I love steyn though hey. I have never seen a bowler as good as him in tests ripping through teams on flat wickets. incredible player.

waqar pre injuries was great and that's all fine lol but many players were great pre injury. Consistency and ability to sustain bowling fast for long periods is a key factor. Lee even post injuries bowled fast.
shoaibh even with all his deficiencies bowled fast. legendary bowler. I still remember how waqar got jealous when shoaibh used to be praised for his express pace. He even ousted him out of the team and called him a choker when shoaibh was doing all the legwork for the team.

and bunrah isn't overrated whatsoever
dude is ****ing seriously good.

lol! Waqar had a 14 year international career!! I'm just saying at his peak before injuries, no one could touch him! Even after his injuries he was in the top 3 bowlers in the world for quite a few years!
In 87 tests he took 373 wickets at 23.56 ,
In odis he has 416 wickets at 23.84!
One of the greatest bowlers of all time!
Come back in ten years time and we can compare your bumras record, if hes still around in 10 years time!!!

 

[tyron_woodley]

lol! Waqar had a 14 year international career!! I'm just saying at his peak before injuries, no one could touch him! Even after his injuries he was in the top 3 bowlers in the world for quite a few years!
In 87 tests he took 373 wickets at 23.56 ,
In odis he has 416 wickets at 23.84!
One of the greatest bowlers of all time!
Come back in ten years time and we can compare your bumras record, if hes still around in 10 years time!!!

I already said that waqar is one of the greatest ever?
true bumrah is in his 3rd year now. He won a series in Australia which waqar was never able to do. So he Is on the right track. a series win in England and s.a whilst maintain his current bowling average would put him up there with the greats.
was just talking about waqar's so called express pace. That's all. He is the greatest if not top 3 but he was never express imo.

 

[Captain caveman]

I already said that waqar is one of the greatest ever?
true bumrah is in his 3rd year now. He won a series in Australia which waqar was never able to do. So he Is on the right track. a series win in England and s.a whilst maintain his current bowling average would put him up there with the greats.
was just talking about waqar's so called express pace. That's all. He is the greatest if not top 3 but he was never express imo.

He did bowl at 95 mph between 1990 -1993/94 but injuries slowed him down to a 90+mph bowler!!!
At the end of his career 1999 - 2003 he was bowling at about 86/87 mph!
You need to do you research properly!!

 

[Ellipsism]

No, they don't. A lot come from North East and other Himalayan regions as well as from South. Again, there is a difference in reality on ground and the popular perception created by movies and texts.

I said the vast majority. I’m not denying the fact that other communities also produce talented athletes.

But it is an undeniable truth that the talent hub for weight lifters, boxers and other similar disciplines in India is Punjab and Haryana.

 

[Captain caveman]

I already said that waqar is one of the greatest ever?
true bumrah is in his 3rd year now. He won a series in Australia which waqar was never able to do. So he Is on the right track. a series win in England and s.a whilst maintain his current bowling average would put him up there with the greats.
was just talking about waqar's so called express pace. That's all. He is the greatest if not top 3 but he was never express imo.

Bumra was part of the india team that beat an australia b side(without smith and warner).
Waqar played against the aussie side which was arguably the greatest test side ever .He did well, butthe batsman let the side down!
You have some real weird(bias) ways at comparing bowlers!!!

 

[PakLFC]

80s and 90s. speed gun wasn't advanced. I highly doubt they were express. shoaibh, lee and tait are the only true express pace bowlers.

I agree india had trundler in 80s and even 90s. things are changing though. Post 2010 we have seen a lot of fast bowlers coming through. express will be hard to achieve though. There will always be a few bowlers who can bowl express but none that can sustain it for long periods due to workload. This is true for all nations.

So Holding and Marshall etc were not fast coz there was no speed gun?? So who are the fast bowlers that are coming up in India? Bumrah and Sham are not that either if that is what you are saying. So now you are telling me that things are changing where as previously Srinath and Srisanth were fast bowlers!!

 

[tyron_woodley]

Bumra was part of the india team that beat an australia b side(without smith and warner).
Waqar played against the aussie side which was arguably the greatest test side ever .He did well, butthe batsman let the side down!
You have some real weird(bias) ways at comparing bowlers!!!

not really from 1992 - 1999 australia never had a world class test team. Waqar still couldn't help pakistan beat them. they won 0 out of 10 games iirc. 8 wins to australia.

B side or not. it was one Australia's finest bowling attacks and they played at home. Australia even without their 2 key players are strong and would have lost definitely beaten England, pakistam or s.africa at home with the team they had against india for the test series.

 

[satheesh]

I am guessing you watched Waqar when he was well past his prime. He used to be express by every definition and imagination..!!!!

so are you saying that just because a bowler bowled faster in a phase when compared to the other vast majority of his career, he can automatically be called a 'fast bowler with avg: seed
lying in that minor phase ' thru out the entire career ??

 

[tyron_woodley]

So Holding and Marshall etc were not fast coz there was no speed gun?? So who are the fast bowlers that are coming up in India? Bumrah and Sham are not that either if that is what you are saying. So now you are telling me that things are changing where as previously Srinath and Srisanth were fast bowlers!!

saini avesh nagarkoti and mavi have all touched 145 plus and are consistently fast. saini and nagarkoti have hit 150 plus.
Things are changing. pakistan has 3 as well but none bowl consistently above 140. CONSISTENCY IS KEY.

let's see if the Indians and paks can keep it up.

holding bowled in a weak era vs poor opponents. Diet, nutrition, technology was lacking back then. I highly doubt they bowled that fast. No recorded speeds available and even if there was it's unreliable as technology clearly wasn't advanced until the 2000 era.

 

[Captain caveman]

not really from 1992 - 1999 australia never had a world class test team. Waqar still couldn't help pakistan beat them. they won 0 out of 10 games iirc. 8 wins to australia.

B side or not. it was one Australia's finest bowling attacks and they played at home. Australia even without their 2 key players are strong and would have lost definitely beaten England, pakistam or s.africa at home with the team they had against india for the test series.

1992-1999 aussies test team were not world class but the aussie b team you beat were world class(lol!)

You are deluded.
No point discussing anything further with you.
Goodbye sir!!

 

[PakLFC]

saini avesh nagarkoti and mavi have all touched 145 plus and are consistently fast. saini and nagarkoti have hit 150 plus.
Things are changing. pakistan has 3 as well but none bowl consistently above 140. CONSISTENCY IS KEY.

let's see if the Indians and paks can keep it up.

holding bowled in a weak era vs poor opponents. Diet, nutrition, technology was lacking back then. I highly doubt they bowled that fast. No recorded speeds available and even if there was it's unreliable as technology clearly wasn't advanced until the 2000 era.

I have never heard of the players you have mentioned coz they are not internationals. Pak has produced fast bowlers where as India has not. Currently we have no bowlers who can be considered as fast either, the well has dried up on this side too.

You kiddin'! Holding was express pace according to the best bowlers of all. Your obsession with guns and what not can't change that at all. He was not called "whispering death" for no reason although his run up was deceptive similar to that off a medium pacer, ask Geoffrey Boycott.

 

[tyron_woodley]

1992-1999 aussies test team were not world class but the aussie b team you beat were world class(lol!)

You are deluded.
No point discussing anything further with you.
Goodbye sir!!

I specifically said their bowling was world class. Aussies were nothing special back in 1992- 1999. Look at their records. They were a good odi side but not a great test side.

 

[Dingolfy]

I said the vast majority. I’m not denying the fact that other communities also produce talented athletes.

But it is an undeniable truth that the talent hub for weight lifters, boxers and other similar disciplines in India is Punjab and Haryana.

No. There is not a single weight-lifter from Punjab-Haryana. All are from either South or North-East.
The closest thing to a fast bowler is Athletics. And South Indians especially we Keralites rule Athletics in India. All this Punjab-Haryana thing is just myth.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Waqar younis fastest timed delivery in cricket was 153 km/h or 95.1 mph, a delivery he bowled against South Africa in 1993 but this was after he had suffered serious back injuries which had really reduced his bowling speeds.[75]

Which means he bowled faster than 95mph before 1993 , before he had his back inury!!!
Just like i said!!!
Now go away kid!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waqar_Younis
Reference 75 is from a bbc source.

What was his AVERAGE SPEED. Not fastest bowl. he bowled one bowl at 96 mph. Big deal.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Where did you get the bowling speed of srinath? I have been watching cricket for a few decades and srinath barely touched 140s in his prime. Were there speed guns where srinath was bowling?

Srinath fastest bowl recorded was 154.5 in the World Cup. 157 was his fastest ever recorded in club cricket. He was the fastest bowler based on average speed in the 2003 World Cup or at least top 2. He was top 3 fastest in 99 too. What more do you want bro? **** srinath anyway. I

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

Indians can never be fast.(never means never) Fast bowling is not their cup of tea.They are short and skinny.Even in this world cup 34 years old wahab Riaz comfortably outbowled their ugly action bowler.

 

[Captain caveman]

What was his AVERAGE SPEED. Not fastest bowl. he bowled one bowl at 96 mph. Big deal.

Can you not read, it says this delivery was after his serious back injury which reduced his speed!!
You are just arguing for the sake of it!!
Get a life!!
I'm done talking to you!!

 

[tyron_woodley]

Can you not read, it says this delivery was after his serious back injury which reduced his speed!!
You are just arguing for the sake of it!!
Get a life!!
I'm done talking to you!!

again. what was his average bowling speed?
lot of players had injuries. srinath had a rotator cuff injury and still bowled 157.

That not an excuse. I don't care. His bowling average speed is what I want to hear about. not his fastest recorded ball.

None of these bowlers are close to shoaib's level. none. shoaib was the fastest ever on average along with lee and tait.

end of story. Only waqar fans would deny that title to king of pace aka shoaibh.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Indians can never be fast.(never means never) Fast bowling is not their cup of tea.They are short and skinny.Even in this world cup 34 years old wahab Riaz comfortably outbowled their ugly action bowler.

wahab is a very good bowler. Only some idiot Pakistani fans underrated him. He has always been consistent in big games. Far better than overrated fodders in the domestic circuit.

 

[Captain caveman]

again. what was his average bowling speed?
lot of players had injuries. srinath had a rotator cuff injury and still bowled 157.

That not an excuse. I don't care. His bowling average speed is what I want to hear about. not his fastest recorded ball.

None of these bowlers are close to shoaib's level. none. shoaib was the fastest ever on average along with lee and tait.

end of story. Only waqar fans would deny that title to king of pace aka shoaibh.

Obviously atkhar was the fastest of all time, closely followed by jeff thompson, andy roberts , brett lee and shaun tait, all bowled at or near 100mph.
Waqar bowled between 95 -96mph at his peak before his injury.

You can find his average speed before his injury yourself.

We are not talking about a one off, we are talking about 3/4 years before injury bowling 95+mph and then 3/4 years after that bowling at 90 - 95mph
So waqar was a genuine express bowler.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Obviously atkhar was the fastest of all time, closely followed by jeff thompson, andy roberts , brett lee and shaun tait, all bowled at or near 100mph.
Waqar bowled between 95 -96mph at his peak before his injury.

You can find his average speed before his injury yourself.

We are not talking about a one off, we are talking about 3/4 years before injury bowling 95+mph and then 3/4 years after that bowling at 90 - 95mph
So waqar was a genuine express bowler.

fair enough. shoaib did it throughout his career though.

 

[Captain caveman]

fair enough. shoaib did it throughout his career though.

All the best to you bro!!

 

[Ellipsism]

No. There is not a single weight-lifter from Punjab-Haryana. All are from either South or North-East.
The closest thing to a fast bowler is Athletics. And South Indians especially we Keralites rule Athletics in India. All this Punjab-Haryana thing is just myth.

This is the first article that pops up when you search Indian weight lifters:
https://www.desiblitz.com/content/top-indian-male-weightlifters

Then why haven’t Kerala produced a single fast bowler of note?

I don’t want to start a race war but the fact of the matter is your best fast bowler (and on track to be India’s greatest fast bowler) is Punjabi, and this Saini lad who clocked 150 in the IPL also happens to be from Haryana.

 

[OmarKhan99]

There is literally 2 genuinely express fast bowlers in the world right now.
Ferguson and starc. They bowl 144 on average.

No other bowler including joffra, bumrah, riaz all bowl 140 on average at best.

Look at the world load of these players especially indian ones as they play the highest number of fixtures per year. They also have lpl which obviously is important to these players in terms of financial incentives.

It's natural that they would want focus on line and length in order to avoid getting injured like starc and Pattinson or cummins.

They have some real speedster in their ranks but coaches often insist on focusing entirely on line and length from what I have seen.

Pretty sure Mark Wood had a very similar, and at times, an even slightly higher average speed than Lockie Ferguson throughout the tournament.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Pretty sure Mark Wood had a very similar, and at times, an even slightly higher average speed than Lockie Ferguson throughout the tournament.

bhai I understand but mark wood is like the varun aaron of England lol. I was talking about quality ones. Aaron bowls as fast as him and averages like 38 in odi.

 

[OmarKhan99]

bhai I understand but mark wood is like the varun aaron of England lol. I was talking about quality ones. Aaron bowls as fast as him and averages like 38 in odi.

Sorry bhai, that just gives me the impression that you didn't actually watch him bowl and instead just chucked up his record from cricinfo without considering any context.

He's suffered from many recurring injuries throughout his career and hasn't always played while anywhere near his best. Anyone who's watched him in the last few months and in 2016 (that beaut to Sharjeel and the spell v Yorkshire epitomizes it), is aware that he is a high quality bowler and has proper venom.

For reference, these are his stats in the WC19 compared to Trent Boult's (one of the best around):

Mark Wood:

Innings - 10
Wickets - 18
Average - 25.72
Bowling SR - 29.8
Economy - 5.16

Trent Boult:

Innings - 10
Wickets - 17
Average - 28.17
Bowling SR - 34.9
Economy - 4.83


That's quite high "quality" if you ask me.

 

[Captain caveman]

To be a truly express bowler(95+mph) you will break your back!!
Indians aren't dumb enough to do that!!

 

[tyron_woodley]

Sorry bhai, that just gives me the impression that you didn't actually watch him bowl and instead just chucked up his record from cricinfo without considering any context.

He's suffered from many recurring injuries throughout his career and hasn't always played while anywhere near his best. Anyone who's watched him in the last few months and in 2016 (that beaut to Sharjeel and the spell v Yorkshire epitomizes it), is aware that he is a high quality bowler and has proper venom.

For reference, these are his stats in the WC19 compared to Trent Boult's (one of the best around):

Mark Wood:

Innings - 10
Wickets - 18
Average - 25.72
Bowling SR - 29.8
Economy - 5.16

Trent Boult:

Innings - 10
Wickets - 17
Average - 28.17
Bowling SR - 34.9
Economy - 4.83


That's quite high "quality" if you ask me.

He is average outside England. I don't rate him. Anyone can look good against fodder teams. He gets smacked around in most games. Even plunkett is a better bowler than him.

 

[ravisurya]

Indians can never be fast.(never means never) Fast bowling is not their cup of tea.They are short and skinny.Even in this world cup 34 years old wahab Riaz comfortably outbowled their ugly action bowler.

What was the balding bowlers top speed in the world cup?

 

[Dingolfy]

This is the first article that pops up when you search Indian weight lifters:
https://www.desiblitz.com/content/top-indian-male-weightlifters

Then why haven’t Kerala produced a single fast bowler of note?

I don’t want to start a race war but the fact of the matter is your best fast bowler (and on track to be India’s greatest fast bowler) is Punjabi, and this Saini lad who clocked 150 in the IPL also happens to be from Haryana.

Because cricket wasn’t that popular in Kerala till recently. We are a football-volleyball-athletics crazy state. Our best athletes went to those three sports and only rich upper middle-class kids went to cricket like Sreesanth. And now thanks to the effort of Kerala Cricket association, we have more rural talented kids coming to cricket and you could see fast bowlers like Basil Thampi coming up.
And Bumrah is our best bowler but not the fastest. That is Varun Aaron who still touched 150 twice in this IPL 2019 even after 8 surgeries. Even Umesh Yadav is faster than Bumrah. And since you have mentioned Saini, we have also a Kannadiga Prasidh Krishna who also bowled 150 plus deliveries in IPL 2019. Also none of the upcoming speedsters like Avesh Khan, Shivam Mavi or Nagarkoti are from Punjab-Haryana.

 

[Captain caveman]

What was the balding bowlers top speed in the world cup?

154kph

 

[ravisurya]

154kph

That was mark wood.

 

[mfin]

India beats Pakistan in sports due to having a better structure and money to invest in sport. In terms of strength, lol let's not go there, if it weren't for the Sikhs/Muslims of India, India would rate 2/10 for strength.

It's not called 'insecure' it's called facts.

There are more clans in India with strength. Haryana, primarily inhabited by jaats and gujjars, have more olympic medals that rest of India and Pakistan combined. Most boxers hail from there. Gujjars who tend to inhabit UP primarily tend to be quite strong. Sushil Kumar, the famous vegetarian wrestler is also a Jaat.

Then you have the rajputs - fairly strong, lean and some of them can be quite athletic. Many bodybuilding/male aesthetic competitions will have rajputs winning the titles.

Then you have the marathas - some of them tend to be quite strong. Check out sangram choughle (the indian body builder, probably the best physique seen in South Asia)

Folks from Andhra tend to be quite rough as well - Andhra also has hyderabad which obviously includes a large muslim population that tends to be heavy meat eaters and fairly strong.

Surprisingly tamilians tend to be quite tall, if not strong. They have the leanness like srinath and sreesanth (not a tamilian but just as an example) which can be helpful in seam bowling with long levers.

So yes, while Sikhs and Muslims in India tend to be stronger than average there are several other clans that punch above their weight. Several states in India do have weaker than average genetics, Bengal, Orissa, Bihar definitely being the leaders of the pack.

 

[Dingolfy]

There are more clans in India with strength. Haryana, primarily inhabited by jaats and gujjars, have more olympic medals that rest of India and Pakistan combined. Most boxers hail from there. Gujjars who tend to inhabit UP primarily tend to be quite strong. Sushil Kumar, the famous vegetarian wrestler is also a Jaat.

Then you have the rajputs - fairly strong, lean and some of them can be quite athletic. Many bodybuilding/male aesthetic competitions will have rajputs winning the titles.

Then you have the marathas - some of them tend to be quite strong. Check out sangram choughle (the indian body builder, probably the best physique seen in South Asia)

Folks from Andhra tend to be quite rough as well - Andhra also has hyderabad which obviously includes a large muslim population that tends to be heavy meat eaters and fairly strong.

Surprisingly tamilians tend to be quite tall, if not strong. They have the leanness like srinath and sreesanth (not a tamilian but just as an example) which can be helpful in seam bowling with long levers.

So yes, while Sikhs and Muslims in India tend to be stronger than average there are several other clans that punch above their weight. Several states in India do have weaker than average genetics, Bengal, Orissa, Bihar definitely being the leaders of the pack.

A post ladden with stereotypes. How the hell are Bengalies genetically inferior when they supplied more than half of the footballers in India. Even they eat more meat on average than a Punjabi-Haryanvi and gets more protein from their daily fish intakes. They have also have famous athletes Jyotirmayi Sikdar and Harishankar Roy (who held the high-jump national record till Tejaswin Shankar surpassed it recently)
Orissa has the fastest Indians in both men ( Amay Kumar Mallick tied with Mallu Anil Kumar) and women ( Dutee Chand). Their tribals are pretty athletic and are a sizeable presence in our Rugby team. They have a poor nutrition problem rather than poor genetics as their state is one of the poorest in India.
And when it comes to nutritious food, Punjabi-Haryanvi food scores way below North-East, Bengali, Kerala as they eat way more meat and fish and use less oil.

 

[Captain caveman]

154kph

2015 wc 154kph
2019 wc 149 kph

 

[Captain caveman]

I specifically said their bowling was world class. Aussies were nothing special back in 1992- 1999. Look at their records. They were a good odi side but not a great test side.

Aussies were the no.1 test team in 1995, after beating WI away, in the 1994/1995 frank worrell.series, officially ending WI 15 year reign as the no. 1 test team in the world.
Aussies would remain the no. 1 team for a decade.
You knowledge about cricket is very poor!

 

[mfin]

A post ladden with stereotypes. How the hell are Bengalies genetically inferior when they supplied more than half of the footballers in India. Even they eat more meat on average than a Punjabi-Haryanvi and gets more protein from their daily fish intakes. They have also have famous athletes Jyotirmayi Sikdar and Harishankar Roy (who held the high-jump national record till Tejaswin Shankar surpassed it recently)
Orissa has the fastest Indians in both men ( Amay Kumar Mallick tied with Mallu Anil Kumar) and women ( Dutee Chand). Their tribals are pretty athletic and are a sizeable presence in our Rugby team. They have a poor nutrition problem rather than poor genetics as their state is one of the poorest in India.
And when it comes to nutritious food, Punjabi-Haryanvi food scores way below North-East, Bengali, Kerala as they eat way more meat and fish and use less oil.

Well you are definitely correct about the post being about stereotype but it appears that you have not grasped that the entire premise of the post and the discussion is stereotypes. Now let's address the second objection, which is whether the stereotype is correct or not in the cases mentioned.

First objection: I quote you "How the hell are Bengalies genetically inferior when they supplied more than half of the footballers in India: well just because bengalis produce more than half the footballers does not debunk that they are not athletic. Do you know that the passion of football is highest in bengal and negligible in rest of the country and overall Indian football prowess is so low that it isn't saying much. For instance there are so many punjabis who are in the hockey team but I wouldn't use that example to say that "look so many punjabis in the hockey team therefore they are more athletic". Because I know no one in the south or bengal plays hockey. Bengalis are genetically inferior - just look at an average bengali person in India - I would know a thing or two about this because I am half bengali and half punjabi. How many bengalis are medal winning wrestlers, boxers, weight lifters or fast bowlers?

Now second objection - speed of orissa athletes. However, the topic of discussion was "Strength" not "Speed" as you can read my first line only refers to strength, although your objection does add value to the discussion. It is quite possible for tribal areas to be faster and leaner clans of India like southern indians - like dutee chand and pt usha from back in the day. But I think best case scenario from that would get us a sreenath type of a bowler - for the sort of speed akhtar was operating at or lee you'd need a combination of strength and speed and lean muscle. I don't reckon we have much hope from orissa bengal or bihar in that respect. I would bet my bottom dollar you will not see a 155-160 kph bowler from these states anytime soon or in our lifetimes.

 

[MenInG]

Former cricketer Shoaib Akhtar made an interesting observation while comparing the pacers of India and Pakistan. The 46-year-old lauded the progress of Indian seam bowling in the recent years but feels the energy to be missing when compared to their Pakistani counterparts.

“There is a difference between Pakistan and India. The Indians are producing good fast bowlers, but what they are lacking is the rare energy - that anger on your face, that attitude that I am going to just kill you," noted Akhtar while speaking on a podcast alongside Australia legend Brett Lee.

Akhtar believes the difference between the two is due to “the environment and food.”

Explaining the reason behind Pakistan's dominance in the fast bowling department, Akhtar picked the idols as one of the main reason behind the attitude.

“The idols that we have, the food, the environment, the attitude. At the same time, you have people like me who are full of energy. It gives us pleasure to bowl quick,” said Akhtar.

He also mentioned that people in Pakistan strictly follow a non-vegetarian diet, which he claims is one of the reason the bowlers in Pakistan “run like lions.”

“You become what you eat, right? My nation eats lots of animals and we end up being like animals. When it comes to fast bowlers, we just run in like lions," he further explained.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...n-players-run-like-lions-101643567105472.html

 

[Villager6964]

Indian pacers express speed tracking

As we have been told India has got many express pacers and they have lightening speed so i will be keeping an eye on Indian express pacers speed.
Let's see how many bowlers bowl consistently 145ks and how fast actually these guys are

 

[Villager6964]

It's only four overs he has to bowl yet that express Pacer Umesh Yadav can't even touch 140 ks.

 

[Villager6964]

Another Indian express young pacer is bowling now Shivam the express mavi bowled two balls at 141 in first over.
In first over his speed were 136 141 137 139 108 141

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol in such a hot weather, Naseem Shah would deliberately stop bowling let alone bowling at any pace. Watch Umesh Yadav in Test matches in India, he bowls 7-8 overs on trott at a speed of 140-145 kmph. The great Imran Khan himself deliberately not bowled on hot weather and often skipped to keep himself fit.

List of Indian pacers who consistently clock 145kmph:

Jasprit Bumrah
Prasidh krishana
Mohammad Siraj
Umesh Yadav
Umran Malik
Navdeep Saini
Kuldeep Sen
Kartik Tyagi
Shivan Mavi

Shami was fast too but now he is 35 year old( actual age) and obviously pace will drop with age and time. Look at Akhtar spell to ugly looking Taylor in 2011 WC for an example. That's what age does.

 

[Villager6964]

In second over of express Shivam mavi
136 137 140 135 they didn't show speed for two balls and it's quite evident these guys can't even bowl 140 ks regularly in T20 cricket and Indians hype them like they are some express pacers.

 

[Villager6964]

Lol in such a hot weather, Naseem Shah would deliberately stop bowling let alone bowling at any pace. Watch Umesh Yadav in Test matches in India, he bowls 7-8 overs on trott at a speed of 140-145 kmph. The great Imran Khan himself deliberately not bowled on hot weather and often skipped to keep himself fit.

List of Indian pacers who consistently clock 145kmph:

Jasprit Bumrah
Prasidh krishana
Mohammad Siraj
Umesh Yadav
Umran Malik
Navdeep Saini
Kuldeep Sen
Kartik Tyagi
Shivan Mavi

Shami was fast too but now he is 35 year old( actual age) and obviously pace will drop with age and time. Look at Akhtar spell to ugly looking Taylor in 2011 WC for an example. That's what age does.

Stop it man. I watch IPL regularly for these bowlers pace i m obsessed with pace apart from umran Malik no one is consistently fast.
That kuldeep sen does bowl 145ks little bit here and there.
Umesh Yadav used to bowl 140ks but not anymore.
Naseem Shah is fastest pacer from asia in test cricket and it's been proved in other thread.

 

[Villager6964]

Here comes Umesh Yadav the fast bowler again
They didn't show the speed for first three balls
137ks and he crossed 140ks for the first time in this match 141.7 and 136.7

 

[Ab Fan]

Stop it man. I watch IPL regularly for these bowlers pace i m obsessed with pace apart from umran Malik no one is consistently fast.
That kuldeep sen does bowl 145ks little bit here and there.
Umesh Yadav used to bowl 140ks but not anymore.
Naseem Shah is fastest pacer from asia in test cricket and it's been proved in other thread.

Wrong. This is April End and the weather is very hot in India especially in afternoon. You watch international test matches, one of the games between India and SA in India and Umesh bowled regularly at very high speed.

You watch his matches vs England and South Africa, he has bowled numerous deliveries at high pace to the likes of Root, Amla, Faf and ABD.

 

[Villager6964]

Wrong. This is April End and the weather is very hot in India especially in afternoon. You watch international test matches, one of the games between India and SA in India and Umesh bowled regularly at very high speed.

You watch his matches vs England and South Africa, he has bowled numerous deliveries at high pace to the likes of Root, Amla, Faf and ABD.

LOL stop with lies man. He has been a medium pacer for long time now.
He used to bowl 140ks but not anymore and he was definitely not an express Pacer.India never had any express Pacer.

 

[Villager6964]

Meanwhile Shivam mavi the express pacer has bowled slower balls only in his 3rd over.
I don't get it what kind of express bowler bowls full over of slower balls. LOL

 

[Thala]

Meanwhile Shivam mavi the express pacer has bowled slower balls only in his 3rd over.
I don't get it what kind of express bowler bowls full over of slower balls. LOL

Mavi and Nagarkoti were fast during U19s and were expected to be included in senior team as express bowlers. Unfortunately both had to deal with serious injuries. While Mavi has managed to deal with his injuries but he is at best Fast-Medium now.

I don't know who told you that He is express bowler.

 

[Villager6964]

Umran Malik the only fast bowler India's got.
In his first over 146 145 143 146 144 142noball
149.7.

 

[Villager6964]

Umran Malik in 2nd over
146 138 139 144 145 142

 

[Villager6964]

Umran Malik in 3rd over
144 146 145 146 146

 

[Villager6964]

151 147 140 147 two balls were not shown

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is Varun Aaron at his peak in tests versus Australia.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=6LpRrIjms5Q&feature=emb_title

 

[topspin]

This is Varun Aaron at his peak in tests versus Australia.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=6LpRrIjms5Q&feature=emb_title

So at his peak he was conceding 4 runs. Does this mean he was get hit for 6 instead outside his peak?

 

[Ab Fan]

This is what happens when you go into circles. Who told if you bowl fast, you wont go for four runs? That's bound to happen. The thread is about express fast bowlers, not great bowlers. They are two different things.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

The word 'peak' has lost its charm today.

 

[TheSultan]

151 147 140 147 two balls were not shown

Good speeds that over. Exciting prospect for India. If they waste him they only have themselves to blame

 

[jeetu]

Pre 90's India never produced a genuine fast bowler. Srinath was the first one. He was first Indian bowler who use to bowl 90+ mph.
After that quite a few Indian bowlers crossed at speed but no one could really sustain it for longer period of time. That is changing in last couple of years. Now Indian bowlers bowlers bowling at 90+ mph speed is not a rare sight.

However 95+ mph express bowlers is a different matter. This class of bowler bowls occasionally bowled at 153+ km/hr when in great rhythm. Only Akhtar and Lee could do that for a longer duration. Rest hit that mark for maximum of 3-4 peak years then went from express to fast bowler. Its takes very lucky genetic to be in that category even for a short while.
Among Indians Srinath or Aaaron may have bowled few 95+ mph delivery. Will India get such a bowler , i don't really know. But i am guessing on trend that India will get few in next 20 years. But would anyone turn into a good/great bowler that's the real question.

Akhtar managed pretty good average but short test career. Brett Lee had longer test career but averaged much higher than Mcgrath and Gillespie.

If India produces more high quality fast bowlers like Bumrah who can averages 25 or lower in future , i'll be happy to wait 50 more years for express Indian bowler.

 

[ethan hunt]

Here comes Umesh Yadav the fast bowler again
They didn't show the speed for first three balls
137ks and he crossed 140ks for the first time in this match 141.7 and 136.7

Lahore Qalandars alone have 6-7 street bowlers who bowl quicker than that

 

[ethan hunt]

Lol in such a hot weather, Naseem Shah would deliberately stop bowling let alone bowling at any pace. Watch Umesh Yadav in Test matches in India, he bowls 7-8 overs on trott at a speed of 140-145 kmph. The great Imran Khan himself deliberately not bowled on hot weather and often skipped to keep himself fit.

List of Indian pacers who consistently clock 145kmph:

Jasprit Bumrah
Prasidh krishana
Mohammad Siraj
Umesh Yadav
Umran Malik
Navdeep Saini
Kuldeep Sen
Kartik Tyagi
Shivan Mavi

Shami was fast too but now he is 35 year old( actual age) and obviously pace will drop with age and time. Look at Akhtar spell to ugly looking Taylor in 2011 WC for an example. That's what age does.

Is that why Naseem shah is the fastest asian bowler in test cricket according to cricviz data and he is yet to play white ball so stop deluding yourself and mentioning trundlers who cant even bowl as quick as local tape ball products from lahore qalandars

 

[cricketjoshila]

So at his peak he was conceding 4 runs. Does this mean he was get hit for 6 instead outside his peak?

He was avging 144k plus in tests in Australia and clocking 150ks.

You can live in denial though.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lahore Qalandars alone have 6-7 street bowlers who bowl quicker than that

We are not discussing street teams and street cricket here. If you want to talk about street teams open another thread.

 

[topspin]

He was avging 144k plus in tests in Australia and clocking 150ks.

You can live in denial though.

No one denying his pace. You made a claim about his "peak" and with the footage supplied to support your claim we can see he conceded 4 runs, so I'm wondering does this mean outside his peak he was conceding even more runs?

 

[cricketjoshila]

No one denying his pace. You made a claim about his "peak" and with the footage supplied to support your claim we can see he conceded 4 runs, so I'm wondering does this mean outside his peak he was conceding even more runs?

So bowlers at their peak speed didn't concede 4s?

 

[Rajdeep]

Express pace bowling is irrelevant....what matters is team winning. India won in Gabba with a bowling attack of Siraj, Natarajan and Shardul Thakur. Pakistan has not even drawn a test match in Australia since 1997. So how has express pace bowling helped Pak cricket team anyway?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It's a shame that a team with express pace bowlers and the fastest Asian test pacer could not stop Australia from winning 1-0 in Pakistan.

 

[Varun]

This thread is 10 years out of date.

 

[amax]

lot of indian fast bowlers are coming now , this thread is 2 decade old.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Express pace bowling is irrelevant....what matters is team winning. India won in Gabba with a bowling attack of Siraj, Natarajan and Shardul Thakur. Pakistan has not even drawn a test match in Australia since 1997. So how has express pace bowling helped Pak cricket team anyway?

Discussion is about express pace bowling and their consistency. You are going on a different route by bringing in results of series and matches into discussion.

 

[Rajdeep]

Discussion is about express pace bowling and their consistency. You are going on a different route by bringing in results of series and matches into discussion.

Every discussion should be circled around team winning. That is what you play the sports for - to win. It dosent matter what pace you bowl at or which hand you bat. I know why this thread has been created but the fact that Indian cricket team has achieved more than Pakistan even without producing express fast bowlers, a fan like me is satisfied.

Natarajan, Siraj and Shardul Thakur has achieved which no express fast bowler from Pakistan has ever achieved. I would take that anyday...thank you.

 

[Sidilicious]

Every discussion should be circled around team winning. That is what you play the sports for - to win. It dosent matter what pace you bowl at or which hand you bat. I know why this thread has been created but the fact that Indian cricket team has achieved more than Pakistan even without producing express fast bowlers, a fan like me is satisfied.

Natarajan, Siraj and Shardul Thakur has achieved which no express fast bowler from Pakistan has ever achieved. I would take that anyday...thank you.

Pace without skill and results is as useful as red lights in grand theft auto.

Thakur and Natrajan bowled a million times better than Naseem Shah and Musa (was it in 2019). India had a very similar attack in terms of experience going into the 3rd test in Aus in 2021 to Pakistan’s bowling in 2019.

We know who bowled better