Why have Pakistan's fast-bowling resources depleted so suddenly?

[Major]

I am looking at the PSL squads that just came out, and there is one thing that is really bothering me, where are the fast bowlers?

Every team struggled to find new pacers, and while the repeated face of medium fast pacers like Jahandad, Mir Hamza, Khurram Shahzad, Faheem Ashraf, M. Ali are there, but there arn't any other proper fast bowler that i can in the list.

What has happened? Did we not produce any pacers during the first class and one day season?

Like this is the list of pace bowlers I see

Shaheen
H. Rauf
Jahandad Khan
Zaman Khan
Mir HAmza
Aamir Jamal
Hasan Ali
Abbas Afridi
Faheem Ashraf
M. Amir
Wasim Jr
K. Shezad
M. Zeehan
Ahmad Daniyal
M. Ali
Ubaid Shah
Akif JAved
M.Hasnain
Naseem Shah
Hunain Shah

But its the usual names that we have been seeing for he last few years. Maybe Hunain Shah and Mohammad Zeeshan are the only two new pacers. But apart from that there arnt any new pacers.

 

[Xoib]

We are producing them just not able to convert them in to world class products

 

[Farabi]

We are producing them just not able to convert them in to world class products

Specifically, we are not able to keep them fit and strong as a starting point.

 

[moghul]

Old Pak pace factory is long closed for business, replaced by modern trundler factory.

 

[moghul]

Pakistan domestic cricket circuit make bowlers to bowl 4 overs in T20, they don;t play FC cricket anymore where they increase their stamina and pace. PSL is the only tournament gets coverage , no one knows when QAE trophy came and gone. If a pacer is good enough to be picked by a T20 team , he thinks he is too good to play useless FC cricket.

The way PCB let Shaheen skip test vs SA for BPL , is the prime example .

 

[bk19xsa]

Strategic move by PCB perhaps for the long term as the money in the sport is geared toward the shortest format and therefore express pace bowling factory is not needed as much as one that provides accuracy and variation.

 

[Xoib]

Pakistan domestic cricket circuit make bowlers to bowl 4 overs in T20, they don;t play FC cricket anymore where they increase their stamina and pace. PSL is the only tournament gets coverage , no one knows when QAE trophy came and gone. If a pacer is good enough to be picked by a T20 team , he thinks he is too good to play useless FC cricket.

The way PCB let Shaheen skip test vs SA for BPL , is the prime example .

There is enough FC cricket but the bowlers who do well there are not getting highlighted enough

 

[BouncerGuy]

Pacers are there, we are not just giving them a proper path towards success. E.g musa khan was the top wicket taker in QEA 2025, but he was ignored for Kashif ali and Mohammad ALi. WHY???

 

[Varun]

Pakistan over the last 30 years have largely only produced "short-term" fast bowlers anyway. They come and go like the wind and might play 20 tests tops at full tilt.

 

[Major]

Shahid aziz has been mentioned by Ali Tareen, he said he was best of the lot in the emerging category and surprisingly he fell to them at last pick

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Shahid Aziz is also 130-135k bowler.

 

[angrypathan]

Pacers are there, we are not just giving them a proper path towards success. E.g musa khan was the top wicket taker in QEA 2025, but he was ignored for Kashif ali and Mohammad ALi. WHY???

Musa Khan is the worst fast bowler to play for Pakistan this century, his debut made a mockery of the test cap. Needs to perform for more than a season before he should get another look

 

[BouncerGuy]

Musa Khan is the worst fast bowler to play for Pakistan this century, his debut made a mockery of the test cap. Needs to perform for more than a season before he should get another look

What has kashif ali done that he got selected???

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

When you think about it Pakistan was never really the land of fast-bowlers as some people say it is. Pakistan is the land of left-arm spinners and off-break bowlers. Guys like Waqar, Wasim, Imran, Shoaib etc. are all exceptions to the case. Pakistan does not have an assembly line of fast-bowlers like South Africa.

 

[RexRex]

When you think about it Pakistan was never really the land of fast-bowlers as some people say it is. Pakistan is the land of left-arm spinners and off-break bowlers. Guys like Waqar, Wasim, Imran, Shoaib etc. are all exceptions to the case. Pakistan does not have an assembly line of fast-bowlers like South Africa.

Pak did have an assembly. They had pace bowlers who had potential like Sami, Gul, Wahaz, Zahid, Asif, Amir etc.. seems more like an issue of professionalism/lack of discipline rather than lack of talent that they failed to reach 'great' status.

 

[Varun]

Pak did have an assembly. They had pace bowlers who had potential like Sami, Gul, Wahaz, Zahid, Asif, Amir etc.. seems more like an issue of professionalism/lack of discipline rather than lack of talent that they failed to reach 'great' status.

If those guys count, then every other country has 5 assembly lines each.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Pak did have an assembly. They had pace bowlers who had potential like Sami, Gul, Wahaz, Zahid, Asif, Amir etc.. seems more like an issue of professionalism/lack of discipline rather than lack of talent that they failed to reach 'great' status.

If you go back and look up the Pakistan domestic cricket stats from the 1960s and 1970s, you will find that most of the wickets were left-arm spinners and off-break bowlers.

Pakistani pitches too were never helpful for fast-bowlers. It was only after Wasim and Waqar perfected the art of reverse-swing that fast-bowlers were able to get something out of these wickets.

Imran hated Pakistani pitches so much that he regularly sat out home test series.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Fast bowlers require optimal genetics and raw aggression.

Look around. Before vs. now.

pak men have regressed. Shorter, skinnier/fatter, lack muscle mass. More feminine.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

I am looking at the PSL squads that just came out, and there is one thing that is really bothering me, where are the fast bowlers?

Every team struggled to find new pacers, and while the repeated face of medium fast pacers like Jahandad, Mir Hamza, Khurram Shahzad, Faheem Ashraf, M. Ali are there, but there arn't any other proper fast bowler that i can in the list.

What has happened? Did we not produce any pacers during the first class and one day season?

Like this is the list of pace bowlers I see

Shaheen
H. Rauf
Jahandad Khan
Zaman Khan
Mir HAmza
Aamir Jamal
Hasan Ali
Abbas Afridi
Faheem Ashraf
M. Amir
Wasim Jr
K. Shezad
M. Zeehan
Ahmad Daniyal
M. Ali
Ubaid Shah
Akif JAved
M.Hasnain
Naseem Shah
Hunain Shah

But its the usual names that we have been seeing for he last few years. Maybe Hunain Shah and Mohammad Zeeshan are the only two new pacers. But apart from that there arnt any new pacers.

Why do pak need fast bowlers when pak are producing quality spinners likes of sufiyan abrar noman sajid has taken over now pak is known for their spinners which is fair enough its the spinners who are winning pak matches

 

[DeadlyVenom]

When you think about it Pakistan was never really the land of fast-bowlers as some people say it is. Pakistan is the land of left-arm spinners and off-break bowlers. Guys like Waqar, Wasim, Imran, Shoaib etc. are all exceptions to the case. Pakistan does not have an assembly line of fast-bowlers like South Africa.

Yeh its a bit of a myth that carried over from pre internet times.

Even in early stages of internet before we had as many videos there was often hype about domestic speedsters, or players in villages who were express but just needed diamonds.

Coincidently Pakistans resources seem to have depleted at the exact same time as more stats, data, and videos are available to the general public....

 

[Kianig89]

Nobody has aspirations to play Test cricket , SSA perfect example as he chose BPL over SA Tests.

Test cricket is not revered due to the mushrooming of T20 leagues. Pakistan will have to live with it

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Because of obsession with pace but not accuracy.

 

[Fenrir]

If those guys count, then every other country has 5 assembly lines each.

Not true.Zahid was one of the fastest bowlers.Asif was a magician.Amir was quick and swung the ball.Srinath was the only quick bowler I remember.Kapil was a medium pacer but he was accurate.

 

[Fenrir]

I am looking at the PSL squads that just came out, and there is one thing that is really bothering me, where are the fast bowlers?

Every team struggled to find new pacers, and while the repeated face of medium fast pacers like Jahandad, Mir Hamza, Khurram Shahzad, Faheem Ashraf, M. Ali are there, but there arn't any other proper fast bowler that i can in the list.

What has happened? Did we not produce any pacers during the first class and one day season?

Like this is the list of pace bowlers I see

Shaheen
H. Rauf
Jahandad Khan
Zaman Khan
Mir HAmza
Aamir Jamal
Hasan Ali
Abbas Afridi
Faheem Ashraf
M. Amir
Wasim Jr
K. Shezad
M. Zeehan
Ahmad Daniyal
M. Ali
Ubaid Shah
Akif JAved
M.Hasnain
Naseem Shah
Hunain Shah

But its the usual names that we have been seeing for he last few years. Maybe Hunain Shah and Mohammad Zeeshan are the only two new pacers. But apart from that there arnt any new pacers.

Ihsanullah,Arshad Iqbal,Zeeshan Zamir and Dahani are missing.Are they injured or not picked?

 

[Fenrir]

Yeh its a bit of a myth that carried over from pre internet times.

Even in early stages of internet before we had as many videos there was often hype about domestic speedsters, or players in villages who were express but just needed diamonds.

Coincidently Pakistans resources seem to have depleted at the exact same time as more stats, data, and videos are available to the general public....

Pakistan have enough fast bowlers but they are not developed properly.The pitches,coaching and FC structure are the reasons.SENA countries has good pitches,excellent coaching staff,medical staff and their domestic cricket is competitive.Many Pakistani bowlers of the past polished their skills in England.Imran,Wasim,Waqar,Sarfraz etc played country cricket for many years.Having 8 to 12 regional teams was a good idea but lobbies within PCB and some journalists wanted umpteen departmental teams.No one knows about the players in these teams.

 

[Hawkeye]

How is it sudden?!

It’s been a decade we have not produced a single quality fast bowler. It all started with us hyping bowlers like Umar Gul and Junaid Khan. Gun barrel straight and barely touching 140s.

Then we had short guys like Hasan Ali and Naseem Shah come through who again were hyped to the moon just because of throwing some fast deliveries.

He was absolutely mauled in his first Australian series. And has been mauled everywhere in Tests since then.

Only Shaheen had some raw ingredients to succeed in the last 10 or so years.

- Good Height
- Swing
- Pace

He too lost it all after first PCB/captains trying to overbowl him. Broke his back and body.

Then his own foolishness - someone fed him the idea he should become an allrounder and try to slog some hits. His bowling further declined.

It seems like he isn’t doing any hard yards and keeping up his fitness that is required for the Test standard.

No pace anymore specially in Tests.

Plus we don’t have other fast bowlers to partner him or reduce the workload doesn’t help either.

If we want to see another good fast bowler, HEIGHT has to be prioritized.

Then pace and lateral movement.

And stamina.

 

[mazkhan]

Pakistan have a potential gem in ali raza

He has the pace and a whippy action he also seems to show some sort of hyperextension because his forearm has a slight bend like bumrah.

Ali raza is the most promising

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeh its a bit of a myth that carried over from pre internet times.

Even in early stages of internet before we had as many videos there was often hype about domestic speedsters, or players in villages who were express but just needed diamonds.

Coincidently Pakistans resources seem to have depleted at the exact same time as more stats, data, and videos are available to the general public....

Yeah I also think that there needs to be an honest examination of history. No Pakistani fast-bowler has even taken 200 Test wickets since Waqar and Wasim. How many of those will you attribute to bad luck or injuries? The sample size is simply too large.

 

[Fenrir]

Yeah I also think that there needs to be an honest examination of history. No Pakistani fast-bowler has even taken 200 Test wickets since Waqar and Wasim. How many of those will you attribute to bad luck or injuries? The sample size is simply too large.

Pakistani bowlers have fitness issues.Pakistani fielders drop more catches than other teams.India has play 120+ more tests than Pakistan.These are not the only reasons but these are some of the reasons.It is not easy to take wickets on Pakistani pitches.Indian,English and Australian pitches favour home teams.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Pakistan over the last 30 years have largely only produced "short-term" fast bowlers anyway. They come and go like the wind and might play 20 tests tops at full tilt.

Pakistan will play 20 Tests over a few year period where as the so called big 3 play that in a year.

Big difference.

 

[Varun]

Pakistan will play 20 Tests over a few year period where as the so called big 3 play that in a year.

Big difference.

New Zealand and West Indies play as many or fewer tests than Pakistan and they have managed to produce Kemar Roach (84 tests), Tim Southee (107), Trent Boult (78) etc.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

The key question is why are people running the sport not capable of understanding what the requirements are for International cricket given key sporting positions with their lack of cricketing knowledge.

The formula of out and out Pace bowlers and spinners has been an age old adage since cricket began.

There are plenty of 140k plus and some 150 k plus bowlers in Pakistan but knowing how to use your assets is a skill in itself.

 

[Buffet]

How is it sudden?!

The last pacer form Pakistan with 200 plus tests wickets debuted in 80s. That's 35 years back.

Yes, many showed promise but I think if in 35 years no new pacer came to pick up 200 test wickets. There is some other problem whish resulted in no one taking 200 plus test wickets after Wasim/Waqar.

In the last 55 years, we have 50-60 pacers with 200 plus wickets.

Aus - 12
Eng - 10
WI - 7
SA - 8
NZ - 6
Ind - 6
Pak - 3
SL - 1

Yes few names came and they were pretty good, but not lasting for 200 test wickets resulted in no one tkaing 200 plus test wickets. 35 years is a long time and lots of pacers played during that time.

Seeing this one one will start thinking that Paksitani pacers lack something to pick up 200 test wickets. That's not true. I will present a different angle.

Main reason is too much relying on reverse and it's just not possible to take too many wickets from reverse now. Only option left , you have to be very good with new ball and for a long time to pick up wickets when playing away. That's harder for most pacers. Not many pacers are going to pick lots of wickets away despite being a pacer friendly pitch. Bulk of wickets come on home grounds for most pacers. It's far easier to accumulate lots of wickets at home in frinedly envornment. Less than 1/3rd of wickets came playing away for pacers like Anderson, Broad etc. Even Steyn has 37% of wickets away. The bulk of wickets by most pacers are going to come in pacer friendly pitches but more importanty it will come at home. It won't come away even if those pithes are pacer friendly.

Some of the pacers from Pakistan would have surely gone past 200 plus test wickets if they had friendly home conditions like Aus, SA & Eng. Yes, posters may point out IK, Wasim and Waqar. They did pick tons of wickets with reverse which is not an available option in similar fashion now and also they were exceptional bowlers. Exception shouldn't be used to make a generalized point. I meant to say that you did not have to be an exceptional to go past 200 wickets if your home grounds are Aus, SA, Eng etc. A very good bowler will do due to picking lots of cheap wickets in friendly conditions at home.

Pakistan pitches have the lowest bounce so it puts pacers at a disadvanatge compared to to pacers from Aus, Eng,SA etc where a good pacer can play half of the tests in pacer friendly pitches. It's a huge , huge advanatge in wickets tally if you can play at home and home happens to be friendly pitches. It's very tough to play away and bag lots of wickets even if pitches are friendly. It's not your home conditions.

Yes, some one may point out what about India. Well, some Indian bowlers who have gone past 200 test wickets had very good new ball skills and far less reliant on picking wickets using old ball/reverse. Also, India does have more variety in pitches and pitches have more bounce in general. It's not pacers friendly like Aus, SA, Eng etc but it's not as dead as Pakistan. Then Pakitan plays less tests than India in general, so playing 60-70 tests to get past 200 wickets is easier for Indian pacer than Pakistani pacers.

After thinking about this 200 plus test wickets issue, I don't think it's as simple as saying that Pakistan has lost the art of pace bowling and that's why the last pacer to pick 200 wickets debuted decades back. That's too simplistic. Reasons are more complex.

I wasn't making an excuse for decline in quality. Simply putting my thoughts for this 200 plus test wickets for Pakistani pacers. It's not solely due to pacers not being good.

 

[Buffet]

Caddick, Hogart, Siddle, Flintoff, Stokes all went past 200 test wickets. They have 200-250 range wickets.

I think their chances of going past 200 would have been slim to none if they were playing for Pakistan.

I am not putting them down. Just pointing out that, going past 200 had more to do with them having pacer friendly home pitches. With the same skill sets, all of them would have ended below 200 test wickets if they had played majority of games in Pakistani pitches.

Again, anyone citing IK/Wasim/Waqar, it was a different era where you can rely on reverse to get lots of wickets and they were also exceptional bowlers. I am giving examples of not so great pacers who went past 200 test wickets due to having friedly test pitches at home. None of them would haev gone apst 200 with a different situation.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

New Zealand and West Indies play as many or fewer tests than Pakistan and they have managed to produce Kemar Roach (84 tests), Tim Southee (107), Trent Boult (78) etc.

Roach debuted in 2009 and has waited around 16 years for his 84 tests bearing in mind he s mostly a test specialist as well.

Southee debuted in 2008 and has waited 17 years for his 107 tests.

Boult debuted in 2011 and has waited 14 years for his 78 tests

Your being disingenuous comparing players who debuted in another time.

The game has changed considerably since then.


Someone like olly pope dubuted in 2018 and has played 55 tests.

jaiswal debuted in july 2023 and has played 19 Tests in a year and half or so.


There is no level playing field which is why comparisons are becoming more and more futile.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Roach debuted in 2009 and has waited around 16 years for his 84 tests bearing in mind he s mostly a test specialist as well.

Southee debuted in 2008 and has waited 17 years for his 107 tests.

Boult debuted in 2011 and has waited 14 years for his 78 tests

Your being disingenuous comparing players who debuted in another time.

The game has changed considerably since then.


Someone like olly pope dubuted in 2018 and has played 55 tests.

jaiswal debuted in july 2023 and has played 19 Tests in a year and half or so.


There is no level playing field which is why comparisons are becoming more and more futile.

In contrast ABD debuted in 2021 has played 22 Tests in a 4 year span.

Big Big difference.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

New Zealand and West Indies play as many or fewer tests than Pakistan and they have managed to produce Kemar Roach (84 tests), Tim Southee (107), Trent Boult (78) etc.

jaiswal debuted in july 2023 and has played 19 Tests in a year and half or so.

In contrast ABD debuted in 2021 has played 22 Tests in a 4 year span.

Big Big difference.

 

[Varun]

Roach debuted in 2009 and has waited around 16 years for his 84 tests bearing in mind he s mostly a test specialist as well.

Southee debuted in 2008 and has waited 17 years for his 107 tests.

Boult debuted in 2011 and has waited 14 years for his 78 tests

Your being disingenuous comparing players who debuted in another time.

The game has changed considerably since then.


Someone like olly pope dubuted in 2018 and has played 55 tests.

jaiswal debuted in july 2023 and has played 19 Tests in a year and half or so.


There is no level playing field which is why comparisons are becoming more and more futile.

Let's leave the second part of your comment out (Pope, Jaiswal, etc.) because I am not comparing Pakistan with the Big-3, I am comparing Pakistan with New Zealand and West Indies.

Even players who debuted later than the ones I listed in my last post have surpassed the 50-test mark no Pakistani fast bowler has since Waqar Younis (debut 1989).

eg:
Jason Holder - debut 2014 - 69 tests
Neil Wagner - debut 2012 - 64 tests

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Let's leave the second part of your comment out (Pope, Jaiswal, etc.) because I am not comparing Pakistan with the Big-3, I am comparing Pakistan with New Zealand and West Indies.

Even players who debuted later than the ones I listed in my last post have surpassed the 50-test mark no Pakistani fast bowler has since Waqar Younis (debut 1989).

eg:
Jason Holder - debut 2014 - 69 tests
Neil Wagner - debut 2012 - 64 tests

Again Wagner is a test specialist that debuted 13 years ago.

Holder was made test captain and became more of a test specialist.

Even then its been 11 years.

Most Pakistani pacers are 3 format players.

Abbas is the only Test specialist and even then he is not a guaranteed starter.

In this era outside the 3 teams

players are not going to hang around more than a decade to play 50 tests.

There s a massive difference between playing 20 tests season and 8 tests a season.

The imbalance is something your failing to address.

 

[Varun]

In this era outside the 3 teams

players are not going to hang around more than a decade to play 50 tests.

But they have. I have listed names from two teams outside the big-3, NZ and WI. And here are a few more, from Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and South Africa:

Suranga Lakmal
Taijul Islam
Kagiso Rabada

Face it - Pakistan are the exception. They don't even have one, test specialist or not.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

But they have. I have listed names from two teams outside the big-3, NZ and WI. And here are a few more, from Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and South Africa:

Suranga Lakmal
Taijul Islam
Kagiso Rabada

Face it - Pakistan are the exception. They don't even have one, test specialist or not.

Taijul Islam is a spinner.

Yasir Shah has over 200 Test wickets.

During the decade or so away from home playing in the UAE the spinners were required.

Face it the Two Tier system by the joke called ICC creates an uneven playing field which devalues the sport.

 

[Varun]

Face it the Two Tier system by the joke called ICC creates an uneven playing field which devalues the sport.

Perhaps, but at the moment it exists only as a proposal on paper.

 

[Kianig89]

No pacer from Pakistan will cross 200 wickets mark, specially with advent of industrial fans not long when Pakistan will have 4 spinners in playing 11.

Off spinner
Leg spinner
Left arm spinner
Chinaman

 

[Buffet]

Last pacer to pick 200 wickets from Pakistan debuted in 80s,

Since 1990,

SA, PAk, NZ, SL -- all have played total 275-300 tests. WI 309 and Ind 325 tests.

Only Eng/Aus have played a lot more.

Clearly, reason is not 2 tier or Pakistani pacers not having oppurtunity to play enough tests.


Some may say that it's lack of quality and some may say pitches in Pakistan. I would say it's the combination but lean more towards pitches. I think with better pitches like Aus, Eng and SA some pacers from Pakistan would have gone past 200 test wickets.

You don't need to be great for that. Being good is enough. Good enough bowlers may struggle even on good away pitches but they can do very well on friendly home pitches. History supports that.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Perhaps, but at the moment it exists only as a proposal on paper.

The 3 have been playing more tests anyway.

regardless of the proposal.

That is just a formality for the 3 to play more amongst each other and kill Test cricket in the process.

 

[Varun]

The 3 have been playing more tests anyway.

regardless of the proposal.

That is just a formality for the 3 to play more amongst each other and kill Test cricket in the process.

It is not the case that Pakistan want to play more tests but the ICC is curtailing them. For instance, why was this tour of South Africa only 2 tests? Why don't Pakistan schedule any 4 test series at all? Etc.

 

[Hyder]

There was a dilbar guy who played for qalandars. He was quite tall and got good bounce off the surface. Idk where he vanished

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Pakistan have played a total of 278 Test matches since 1990.

The least amount by any major nation.

33 of those Tests have been at a neutral venue due to the decade of not playing at home.


india have played 328 Test matches since 1990.

SA have played 300 Tests since 1990.

SL have played 294 Tests since 1990.

NZ have played 283 Tests since 1990.

Windies have played 309 Tests since 1990.

Austrailia have played 377 Tests since 1990.

England have played 426 Tests since 1990.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

It is not the case that Pakistan want to play more tests but the ICC is curtailing them. For instance, why was this tour of South Africa only 2 tests? Why don't Pakistan schedule any 4 test series at all? Etc.

I cant speak on behalf of the PCB.

However looking from the outside SA had their T20 league scheduled with the CT to follow after so it wouldn't be feasible.

I do think 3 Test series should be mandatory for all the major Test playing nations.

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan have played a total of 278 Test matches since 1990.

It's a large enough number for some one to get to 200 test wickets by playing 60 odd tests tests.


Look at it other way, in the last 35 years 200-250 wickets range.

Majority of them have played 60 odd tests. So 278 tests allows enough oppurtunity to play 60 odd tests. We are not talking about 300-400 wickets here. It's 200 test wickets.

Not having 200 plus wickets has very little to do with Pakistan playing 278 tests vesus many others playing 15-20 more tests in 35 years of long period.

 

[sweep_shot]

Franchise cricket.
System inefficiency.

These two are probably the main reasons.

 

[Buffet]

I cant speak on behalf of the PCB.

None of us can, but all of us can see the trend of PCB not wanting to host long test series.

Pakistan has hosted too many 2 tests series against many top sides. It's not an issue of some conflict for one test series. It's a general trend of PCB not wanting to play longer test series and preferring ODI/T20. It's about revenue.

SA in 2010 - 2 tests
SA in 2013 - 2 tests
Aus in 2014 - 2 tests
Sl in 2017 - 2 tests
Aus in 2018 - 2 tests
Sl in 2019 - 2 tests
SA in 2020 - 2 tests
NZ in 2022 - 2 tests

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

It's a large enough number for some one to get to 200 test wickets by playing 60 odd tests tests.


Look at it other way, in the last 35 years 200-250 wickets range.

Majority of them have played 60 odd tests. So 278 tests allows enough oppurtunity to play 60 odd tests. We are not talking about 300-400 wickets here. It's 200 test wickets.

Not having 200 plus wickets has very little to do with Pakistan playing 278 tests vesus many others playing 15-20 more tests in 35 years of long period.


View attachment 149696

Your failing to take into account that a decade of players missed out on playing at home.

That is a career s worth for most players.

Also the like s of Shoaib, Umar Gul, missed out due to injuries plus Amir and Asif would of easily crossed that.

Yasir Shah has got 200 plus wickets in that time and Ajmal 180 odd because we went spin heavy in UAE conditions.

A lot of the names on the list were Test specialists like Martin , Harmi , Hoggard, caddick, siddle etc.

The gap between Tests, plus injuries, Three format players and conditions all have played a role and some point or the other.

The PCB should be aiming to play between 12 - 15 Tests in a season moving forward with the stadium revamp etc a minimum of 3 Tests should be played.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

None of us can, but all of us can see the trend of PCB not wanting to host long test series.

Pakistan has hosted too many 2 tests series against many top sides. It's not an issue of some conflict for one test series. It's a general trend of PCB not wanting to play longer test series and preferring ODI/T20. It's about revenue.

SA in 2010 - 2 tests
SA in 2013 - 2 tests
Aus in 2014 - 2 tests
Sl in 2017 - 2 tests
Aus in 2018 - 2 tests
Sl in 2019 - 2 tests
SA in 2020 - 2 tests
NZ in 2022 - 2 tests

That is why there should be a minimum of a 3 Test series among the major nations across the board.

 

[Major]

Are there bowlers that ae bowling 145kph in domestic cricket?

This apart from the shaheen, rauf and Naseem trio

 

[giri26]

Your failing to take into account that a decade of players missed out on playing at home.

That is a career s worth for most players.

Also the like s of Shoaib, Umar Gul, missed out due to injuries plus Amir and Asif would of easily crossed that.

Yasir Shah has got 200 plus wickets in that time and Ajmal 180 odd because we went spin heavy in UAE conditions.

A lot of the names on the list were Test specialists like Martin , Harmi , Hoggard, caddick, siddle etc.

The gap between Tests, plus injuries, Three format players and conditions all have played a role and some point or the other.

The PCB should be aiming to play between 12 - 15 Tests in a season moving forward with the stadium revamp etc a minimum of 3 Tests should be played.

Sorry there was someone who said the reason Pakistan bowlers did not get to 200 Test wickets was because the wickets at home aren't conducive to fast bowling. Now you say that bowlers did not get to 200 wickets is because they did not play at home. Which one is true? Actually to be frank lot of Pakistan fast bowlers did better in UAE than at home. For example Abbas probably was Pakistan's best chance for 200 wickets as he has an average of 17.5 in UAE and 23 at home but he was dropped and he is now way too old to play 50-60 Tests. None of the current Pakistan bowlers actually do well at home. Naseem and Shaheen average 31 and 32 respectively at home.

One of the bowlers who did not play at home was Junaid but again he was overall a mediocre bowler. He averaged 32 in UAE and except for Zimbabwe, his averages everywhere was 30+. So don't think he would have done any better. Aamir was hyped due to his one England tour, his record elsewhere weren't that good anyways even before his ban. Asif I agree might have got there but again he only has himself to blame.

While I hear lots of excuses the main reason for Pakistan bowlers to not get to 200 wickets is because is the lack of interest to play Tests and poor fitness. None of the Pakistan bowlers who played in the last decade had the fitness to go through the grind of Test cricket. The 3 format players does not hold water as Shami & Bumrah play all 3 formats and play a lot of IPL games every year and still have have 200 Test wickets. Mitchell Starc plays 3 formats and has 300+ Test wickets. While playing in Pakistan is an issue due to the dead wickets, the main reason is fitness and longevity. Shami has played 21 Tests in India and has taken 76 wickets at 22, Zaheer played 38 Tests in India and took 104 wickets, Ishant Sharma played 42 Tests in India and took 104 wickets. Zaheer and Ishant were not great Test bowlers but played a lot of games in India and their averages weren't great as well but still had the longevity to get to 200 Test wickets. Yeah I know you would say they were mediocre and they wouldn't have played for other countries etc but again we are talking about why players do play enough to get to 200 Test wickets from Pakistan. Bumrah has 12 tests in India and has 47 wickets at 17. These are the wickets which do not have anything for pacers.

So playing Tests in Pakistan/UAE has nothing to do with Pakistan's bowlers not able to take 200 wickets. It has more to do with the will to play the format and wanting to improve and obviously fitness to do so.

 

[Buffet]

Your failing to take into account that a decade of players missed out on playing at home.

That is a career s worth for most players.

Also the like s of Shoaib, Umar Gul, missed out due to injuries plus Amir and Asif would of easily crossed that.

Injury is not specific to Pakistani players. So that shouldn't be used as a reason to not have 200 test wickets.

Look at all Pakistani pacers at home + UAE in entire history,

Who do you think had a strong chance of getting to 200 test wickets and did not get due to UAE?




Gul had same avg in Pak and UAE, Akhtar was done by the time UAE shift happened.

I would call Amir and Asif geniune miss. I was making the point that if pitches in Pakistan were pacer's friendly then some one else would have crossed 200 test wickets.

You don't have to be that great a bowler to cross 200 test wickets if you can take lots of wickets at home. If you can't take lots of wickets at home then it's harder.

 

[Buffet]

None of the Pakistan bowlers who played in the last decade had the fitness to go through the grind of Test cricket. The 3 format players does not hold water as Shami & Bumrah play all 3 formats and play a lot of IPL games every year and still have have 200 Test wickets. Mitchell Starc plays 3 formats and has 300+ Test wickets. While playing in Pakistan is an issue due to the dead wickets, the main reason is fitness and longevity. Shami has played 21 Tests in India and has taken 76 wickets at 22, Zaheer played 38 Tests in India and took 104 wickets, Ishant Sharma played 42 Tests in India and took 104 wickets. Zaheer and Ishant were not great Test bowlers but played a lot of games in India and their averages weren't great as well but still had the longevity to get to 200 Test wickets. Yeah I know you would say they were mediocre and they wouldn't have played for other countries etc but again we are talking about why players do play enough to get to 200 Test wickets from Pakistan. Bumrah has 12 tests in India and has 47 wickets at 17. These are the wickets which do not have anything for pacers.

That's a good point. Fitness is not there to grind it out in the test format for most pacers. That got to be a major factor.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Sorry there was someone who said the reason Pakistan bowlers did not get to 200 Test wickets was because the wickets at home aren't conducive to fast bowling. Now you say that bowlers did not get to 200 wickets is because they did not play at home. Which one is true? Actually to be frank lot of Pakistan fast bowlers did better in UAE than at home. For example Abbas probably was Pakistan's best chance for 200 wickets as he has an average of 17.5 in UAE and 23 at home but he was dropped and he is now way too old to play 50-60 Tests. None of the current Pakistan bowlers actually do well at home. Naseem and Shaheen average 31 and 32 respectively at home.

One of the bowlers who did not play at home was Junaid but again he was overall a mediocre bowler. He averaged 32 in UAE and except for Zimbabwe, his averages everywhere was 30+. So don't think he would have done any better. Aamir was hyped due to his one England tour, his record elsewhere weren't that good anyways even before his ban. Asif I agree might have got there but again he only has himself to blame.

While I hear lots of excuses the main reason for Pakistan bowlers to not get to 200 wickets is because is the lack of interest to play Tests and poor fitness. None of the Pakistan bowlers who played in the last decade had the fitness to go through the grind of Test cricket. The 3 format players does not hold water as Shami & Bumrah play all 3 formats and play a lot of IPL games every year and still have have 200 Test wickets. Mitchell Starc plays 3 formats and has 300+ Test wickets. While playing in Pakistan is an issue due to the dead wickets, the main reason is fitness and longevity. Shami has played 21 Tests in India and has taken 76 wickets at 22, Zaheer played 38 Tests in India and took 104 wickets, Ishant Sharma played 42 Tests in India and took 104 wickets. Zaheer and Ishant were not great Test bowlers but played a lot of games in India and their averages weren't great as well but still had the longevity to get to 200 Test wickets. Yeah I know you would say they were mediocre and they wouldn't have played for other countries etc but again we are talking about why players do play enough to get to 200 Test wickets from Pakistan. Bumrah has 12 tests in India and has 47 wickets at 17. These are the wickets which do not have anything for pacers.

So playing Tests in Pakistan/UAE has nothing to do with Pakistan's bowlers not able to take 200 wickets. It has more to do with the will to play the format and wanting to improve and obviously fitness to do so.

You have mentioned a few things so I will go through them.

Not playing at home for a decade does have a significant impact on players due to many factors.

If other teams are Playing 20 Tests a season and your playing 8 in a season that will obviously create an environment where players will prioritise white ball over red ball.

jaiswal can play 19 tests in a year and half while it takes ABD 4 years to play 22 Tests.

You do the maths.

If there are 20- 25 white ball games in a season which one is going to be the preference?.

Most of the pacers on the list of 200 plus wickets that a poster whose name I don't recall showed bowlers who play for Eng , NZ and SA etc where the surfaces are more conducive to fast bowling and most are / were Test specialists like Hoggard, Wagner and Harmi etc.

Seeing as you've mentioned starc and you can add cummings and hazelwood to the list as well because the aussie selection policy focusses and prioritises on the long Test season and mostly use s them in ICC white ball events and certain white ball series.

You have to understand the dynamics as cricket is a unique sport where there isn't a level playing field for all major Test nations.

The wickets in sri lanka and india vary a bit where some venue s offer some assistance to seamers and others where it spins square.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Injury is not specific to Pakistani players. So that shouldn't be used as a reason to not have 200 test wickets.

Look at all Pakistani pacers at home + UAE in entire history,

Who do you think had a strong chance of getting to 200 test wickets and did not get due to UAE?


View attachment 149716

Gul had same avg in Pak and UAE, Akhtar was done by the time UAE shift happened.

I would call Amir and Asif geniune miss. I was making the point that if pitches in Pakistan were pacer's friendly then some one else would have crossed 200 test wickets.

You don't have to be that great a bowler to cross 200 test wickets if you can take lots of wickets at home. If you can't take lots of wickets at home then it's harder.

As you mentioned most of the bowlers on the list are pre 2009.

The point I'm making about not playing at home for a decade is significant because in that decade Pakistan had pacers who bowled reverse like Gul , Rana etc who were excellent exponents of it and bowled yorkers at high pace at will.

Better than the current crop who cant land yorkers.

 

[Farabi]

When you think about it Pakistan was never really the land of fast-bowlers as some people say it is. Pakistan is the land of left-arm spinners and off-break bowlers. Guys like Waqar, Wasim, Imran, Shoaib etc. are all exceptions to the case. Pakistan does not have an assembly line of fast-bowlers like South Africa.

I don’t understand why we always revert to the lazy “there is no talent” excuse.

Pakistan is still, at its heart, a land of fast bowlers but institutionally its not.

The talent is there, no doubt, but the system doesn’t support it with even bare bone needs like workload management, biomechanics and injury rehab.

As the saying goes, "cricket is for everyone, but fast bowling isn’t." Fast bowling demands incredible physicality, mental toughness, and strong institutional backing—things Pakistan hasn’t consistently provided.

Take legends like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, and Imran Khan. They didn’t just succeed because they were naturally gifted as some of you are implying. They had the right support systems, especially from playing Sheffield and County cricket in England, which gave them access to world-class facilities and Injury rehabs. Surrey and Lancashire took care of all their rehab and it won’t be wrong to say that they produced the 2 Ws not Pakistan. The 2 Ws hardly played any domestic in Pakistan nor did Imran Khan.

Since their time, though, Pakistan has struggled to give its fast bowlers the same kind of environment, even though the raw talent keeps coming through.

- Recent Debut and Current Internationals: Naseem Shah, Shaheen Afridi, Haris Rauf, Mohammad Wasim Jr., Mohammad Hasnain, Arshad Iqbal, Ihsanullah. These were all 90+ mph bowlers before injuries. How much more talent do you need?

- Exciting Prospects: Ali Raza, Mohammad Zeeshan, Akif Javed, Mohammad Ilyas, Irshadullah, Zeeshan Zameer.

If this ain’t an assembly line, then what is?
This is after prematurely wasting talents like Mohammad Amir, Junaid Khan, Rumman Raees—players who showed flashes of brilliance but never got the support they needed to fully deliver.

The issue isn’t finding the raw talent in Pakistan—it’s keeping it healthy and helping it grow. Fast bowlers need proper workload management and rehab programs, and without those, Pakistan is stuck in a cycle of producing amazing raw talent that burns out too soon. If the system doesn’t evolve, we’re going to keep wasting players who could’ve been world-class.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don’t understand why we always revert to the lazy “there is no talent” excuse.

Pakistan is still, at its heart, a land of fast bowlers but institutionally its not.

The talent is there, no doubt, but the system doesn’t support it with even bare bone needs like workload management, biomechanics and injury rehab.

As the saying goes, "cricket is for everyone, but fast bowling isn’t." Fast bowling demands incredible physicality, mental toughness, and strong institutional backing—things Pakistan hasn’t consistently provided.

Take legends like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, and Imran Khan. They didn’t just succeed because they were naturally gifted as some of you are implying. They had the right support systems, especially from playing Sheffield and County cricket in England, which gave them access to world-class facilities and Injury rehabs. Surrey and Lancashire took care of all their rehab and it won’t be wrong to say that they produced the 2 Ws not Pakistan. The 2 Ws hardly played any domestic in Pakistan nor did Imran Khan.

Since their time, though, Pakistan has struggled to give its fast bowlers the same kind of environment, even though the raw talent keeps coming through.

- Recent Debut and Current Internationals: Naseem Shah, Shaheen Afridi, Haris Rauf, Mohammad Wasim Jr., Mohammad Hasnain, Arshad Iqbal, Ihsanullah. These were all 90+ mph bowlers before injuries. How much more talent do you need?

- Exciting Prospects: Ali Raza, Mohammad Zeeshan, Akif Javed, Mohammad Ilyas, Irshadullah, Zeeshan Zameer.

If this ain’t an assembly line, then what is?
This is after prematurely wasting talents like Mohammad Amir, Junaid Khan, Rumman Raees—players who showed flashes of brilliance but never got the support they needed to fully deliver.

The issue isn’t finding the raw talent in Pakistan—it’s keeping it healthy and helping it grow. Fast bowlers need proper workload management and rehab programs, and without those, Pakistan is stuck in a cycle of producing amazing raw talent that burns out too soon. If the system doesn’t evolve, we’re going to keep wasting players who could’ve been world-class.

Nothing lazy about it. It's time people face facts. If you look at history you will find that Pakistan have always been better at producing left-arm spinners and off-break bowlers than fast-bowlers, or even leg-spinners. There is a long history of data that backs this, and the pitches in Pakistan have also been historically supportive to these types of bowlers. I also don't see how you can compare any of the recent names you mentioned above, except for Shaheen, to the fast-bowlers that South Africa have produced in roughly the same period: Anrich Nortje, Gerald Coetzee, Marco Jansen, Lungi Ngidi, Nadre Burger --- all of whom have far greater upside, bowl much faster, have far greater natural attributes that come with being a fast-bowler, and are actually capable of playing test cricket. Add to that fringe players like: Otneill Baartman, Lutho Sipamla, Kwena Maphaka, and you can see that it is South Africa that has a true assembly line of fast-bowlers. I am sure if you went back in history you would find this to be the case historically as well. And again, the pitches in South Africa are also very conducive to guys who can bowl quick and get natural bounce out of the surface.

I also take exception to a lot of the names you mentioned above. Many of whom are not exciting prospects in any sense of the word.

 

[Farabi]

Nothing lazy about it. It's time people face facts. If you look at history you will find that Pakistan have always been better at producing left-arm spinners and off-break bowlers than fast-bowlers, or even leg-spinners. There is a long history of data that backs this, and the pitches in Pakistan have also been historically supportive to these types of bowlers. I also don't see how you can compare any of the recent names you mentioned above, except for Shaheen, to the fast-bowlers that South Africa have produced in roughly the same period: Anrich Nortje, Gerald Coetzee, Marco Jansen, Lungi Ngidi, Nadre Burger --- all of whom have far greater upside, bowl much faster, have far greater natural attributes that come with being a fast-bowler, and are actually capable of playing test cricket. Add to that fringe players like: Otneill Baartman, Lutho Sipamla, Kwena Maphaka, and you can see that it is South Africa that has a true assembly line of fast-bowlers. I am sure if you went back in history you would find this to be the case historically as well. And again, the pitches in South Africa are also very conducive to guys who can bowl quick and get natural bounce out of the surface.

I also take exception to a lot of the names you mentioned above. Many of whom are not exciting prospects in any sense of the word.

We have to face the RIGHT facts. Yes, you’re right we’ve produced more left arm spinners but we have also produced plenty of fast bowling talent!

What we’re missing is the right system to develop and sustain it.

Just look at the raw fast bowling talent we’ve produced: Naseem Shah (pre injury), Shaheen Afridi (pre injury), Haris Rauf, Mohammad Wasim Jr., Mohammad Hasnain, Arshad Iqbal, Ihsanullah (pre injury), Ali Raza, Mohammad Zeeshan, and Akif Javed.

These guys have the pace and “fast bowling attributes” to form a top-tier attack across all formats. I am not sure if we are watching the same sport because most of the above pacers are just as quick if not quicker than Ngidi, Rabada, Jansen, and Burger.

The problem isn’t the raw talent—it’s that our system doesn’t identify, manage and develop these bowlers properly. We lack medical institutions, workload SOPs, coaching staff, Bio mechanic labs and rehab centers to ensure that these bowlers remain injury free and return full throttle after injury.

I also take exception to some of the SA fast bowler names you mentioned. Baartmen, Sipamla? Are you serious. South Africa and Pakistan have at minimum comparable fast bowling talent pipeline, but I’d argue Pakistan has more varied and higher-quality raw talent. The real difference is in how South Africa manages their bowlers. Our system needs to step up to turn this talent into consistent, world-class pacers, specially in red ball.

 

[ravisurya]

Their is a still a lot of raw talent in Pakistan, the problem is with turning talent into finished products.

 

[Human786]

Pakistan domestic cricket circuit make bowlers to bowl 4 overs in T20, they don;t play FC cricket anymore where they increase their stamina and pace. PSL is the only tournament gets coverage , no one knows when QAE trophy came and gone. If a pacer is good enough to be picked by a T20 team , he thinks he is too good to play useless FC cricket.

The way PCB let Shaheen skip test vs SA for BPL , is the prime example .

This ... huge apathy for Test cricket too . A 21 year old Naseem plays a Test against SA , skips 2nd now rested for next 2 as well !

 

[Farabi]

Their is a still a lot of raw talent in Pakistan, the problem is with turning talent into finished products.

Exactly, we’ve got a problem of plenty. The real issue is we have zero concept of workload management, squad rotation, or proper injury rehab.

We overwork bowlers, make them play every game—even against teams like Zimbabwe—do botched surgeries, and rush them back before they’re fully recovered. Then we wonder why they lose pace and flow. A new shiny prospect shows up, and we move on. It’s the same cycle, over and over.

Fast bowlers should be treated like Mercedes, but in Pakistan, they’re treated like ghada gaari. And then you’ve got people saying, “we don’t have talent.” Of course, we don’t—because we ruin them all!

Any country would kill to have 6-7 pacers consistently bowling 90+ mph, but we somehow find a way to mess it up every time.

 

[Farabi]

This ... huge apathy for Test cricket too . A 21 year old Naseem plays a Test against SA , skips 2nd now rested for next 2 as well !

This is where systems come in. Look at track record of injured pacers. No one wants to get injured with PCB’s medical panel.

 

[Marooned]

Pakistan's situation is similar to Windies.

Both countries produce enough raw talent but the system to transform it to actual test level greatness just isn't there anymore.

Take Windies example too. So much raw talent. Alizzari Joseph Oshin Thomas and many more. Tall bouncy 145k plus ballers who aren't exactly world beaters now.

In batsmen too, take example of Shimron Hetmeyer. One of the most if not the most naturally gifted batsman I've seen in the last decade but has faded away into mediocrity.

Now don't come at me with but but Roach has 200 wickets. He plays on good bowling wickets with a dukes ball. Do the same for Pakistan and you'd see 200 test wickets here too.

 

[Varun]

Now don't come at me with but but Roach has 200 wickets. He plays on good bowling wickets with a dukes ball. Do the same for Pakistan and you'd see 200 test wickets here too.

Nah, Pakistani cricketers aren't hard working enough for that. If it hasn't happened since 1989, it is clear.

 

[Hawkeye]

How many Test matches Pakistani players have played since 2005?

Do we have a list of top 5?

Then compare with other teams for the same top 5.

I feel like each Pakistani pacer has played far less Test matches than those of other countries. @Buffet @Varun

So yes this is one factor and quite a big one too.

But apart from that the supply of quality bowlers is also lacking, plus the incompetence of the PCB where they don’t prioritize their rest, recovery and fitness.

 

[Marooned]

Nah, Pakistani cricketers aren't hard working enough for that. If it hasn't happened since 1989, it is clear.

Make Pakistan home conditions like Windies or SA or NZ and quite a few domestic grinders can reach that 200 mark.

The best talent does get distracted or mismanaged that's right.