Why Indians applaud Shiv Maharaj more than Prithvi Raj Chohan? Although the latter was more valiant

[The Bald Eagle]

An overview of Prithviraj Chauhan performance against Muslims:

Prithviraj Chauhan, also known as Rai Pithora, was a valiant warrior king who resisted the Muslim Ghurid dynasty. His notable triumphs include:

• First Battle of Tarain (1191): Prithviraj led a coalition of Rajput kings and defeated Muhammad of Ghor near Taraori4.
• Repulsion of Raids: He successfully repelled several raids by Ghurid generals during his reign4.

However, these early victories were overshadowed by his defeat in the Second Battle of Tarain in 1192, which marked a pivotal moment in the Islamic conquest of India.

An overview of Chhatrapati Shiv Bonsale's performance against Muslims:

Chttrapati faced significant challenges from Aurangzeb's forces:

• Treaty of Purandar (1665): Shivaji was forced to sign this treaty after Raja Jai Singh besieged his forts. He agreed to surrender 23 forts and become a Mughal vassal
• Arrest at Agra (1666): Shivaji was arrested by Aurangzeb but managed a daring escape
• Despite these setbacks, Shivaji continued to challenge Mughal authority, recovering lost territories and raiding key cities like Surat

Aurangzeb vs Chhatrapati Bonsale

Key Events:

• Battle of Pratapgarh (1659): Shivaji defeated Afzal Khan, a Bijapur general.
• Treaty of Purandar (1665): Shivaji agreed to surrender some forts and become a Mughal vassal.
• Visit to Agra (1666): Shivaji felt insulted by Aurangzeb at court, leading to his arrest. He escaped in disguise.
• Despite hostilities, there were periods of peace between them12

 

[Bhaijaan]

Please don’t play politics of divide. They’re both Sanatani icons and we revere them equally. It’s a non issue and frankly this is the first time I’m reading such a debate. I am a Punjabi and i revere the Sanatani icons of the South as much as i revere the Sanatani icons of the North. Prithviraj Chauhan, Shivaji, Banda Singh Bahadur are all my icons

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Was just curious why Shri Modi j always applaud the former but not as much or hardly the latter.

Please don’t play politics of divide. They’re both Sanatani icons and we revere them equally. It’s a non issue and frankly this is the first time I’m reading such a debate. I am a Punjabi and i revere the Sanatani icons of the South as much as i revere the Sanatani icons of the North. Prithviraj Chauhan, Shivaji, Banda Singh Bahadur are all my icon

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

One learns knew thing about India and Indians everyday courtesy our OP.
. Why are Indian politicians not talking about Harsha, Kanishka, Chandragupta , Ashoka more often?
Something seriously must be wrong in India? .

 

[The Bald Eagle]

One learns knew thing about India and Indians everyday courtesy our OP.
. Why are Indian politicians not talking about Harsha, Kanishka, Chandragupta , Ashoka more often?
Something seriously must be wrong in India? .

Why are they not talking more about Molana Azaad, Dadabhai Naroji, Bose and Gandhi etc should be the real concern

 

[globetrotter]

An overview of Prithviraj Chauhan performance against Muslims:

Prithviraj Chauhan, also known as Rai Pithora, was a valiant warrior king who resisted the Muslim Ghurid dynasty. His notable triumphs include:

• First Battle of Tarain (1191): Prithviraj led a coalition of Rajput kings and defeated Muhammad of Ghor near Taraori4.
• Repulsion of Raids: He successfully repelled several raids by Ghurid generals during his reign4.

However, these early victories were overshadowed by his defeat in the Second Battle of Tarain in 1192, which marked a pivotal moment in the Islamic conquest of India.

An overview of Chhatrapati Shiv Bonsale's performance against Muslims:

Chttrapati faced significant challenges from Aurangzeb's forces:

• Treaty of Purandar (1665): Shivaji was forced to sign this treaty after Raja Jai Singh besieged his forts. He agreed to surrender 23 forts and become a Mughal vassal
• Arrest at Agra (1666): Shivaji was arrested by Aurangzeb but managed a daring escape
• Despite these setbacks, Shivaji continued to challenge Mughal authority, recovering lost territories and raiding key cities like Surat

Aurangzeb vs Chhatrapati Bonsale

Key Events:

• Battle of Pratapgarh (1659): Shivaji defeated Afzal Khan, a Bijapur general.
• Treaty of Purandar (1665): Shivaji agreed to surrender some forts and become a Mughal vassal.
• Visit to Agra (1666): Shivaji felt insulted by Aurangzeb at court, leading to his arrest. He escaped in disguise.
• Despite hostilities, there were periods of peace between them12

The reasons why Indians held Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj as Great Worrior…..

1) Shivaji maharaj built his empire from 0. Majority of India was under Mughals and Adilshah. He built his empire from Maharashtra (present day) to Tanjawar (Tamilnadu)

2) After Shivaji’s death Sambhaji, Shahu and Peshwas extended Maratha empire till Attok (present day Pakistan-Afghanistan border). Marathas are responsible for ouster of Mughals from India.

2) Shivaji Maharaj was a master in guerrilla warfares … thousands of Maratha army defeated Mughal’s of Lacs in number on many occasions.

3) Shivaji always treated all religions equal. When Marathas caught nawab’s wife and other women of his family.. Shivaji Maharaj returned them to Nawab respectfully.

On the other hand, Rajputs especially Maharana Pratap also fight well against Mughals. Some Rajput kings have developed relations with Mughals by marrying their daughters.

In the 3rd battle of Panipat against Abdali when Maratha asked help from Rajput, but they denied.

Marathas always stood for the nation.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Why are they not talking more about Molana Azaad, Dadabhai Naroji, Bose and Gandhi etc should be the real concern

As I said we are learning knew things about present day India from you. Thanks !!

 

[FearlessRoar]

These two characters became known through Indian movies otherwise they are not famous in history.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

These two characters became known through Indian movies otherwise they are not famous in history.

Never knew you are the authority on whats famous or not from the Indian perspective!
Champion posters

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The reasons why Indians held Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj as Great Worrior…..

1) Shivaji maharaj built his empire from 0. Majority of India was under Mughals and Adilshah. He built his empire from Maharashtra (present day) to Tanjawar (Tamilnadu)

2) After Shivaji’s death Sambhaji, Shahu and Peshwas extended Maratha empire till Attok (present day Pakistan-Afghanistan border). Marathas are responsible for ouster of Mughals from India.

2) Shivaji Maharaj was a master in guerrilla warfares … thousands of Maratha army defeated Mughal’s of Lacs in number on many occasions.

3) Shivaji always treated all religions equal. When Marathas caught nawab’s wife and other women of his family.. Shivaji Maharaj returned them to Nawab respectfully.

On the other hand, Rajputs especially Maharana Pratap also fight well against Mughals. Some Rajput kings have developed relations with Mughals by marrying their daughters.

In the 3rd battle of Panipat against Abdali when Maratha asked help from Rajput, but they denied.

Marathas always stood for the nation.

Never mind, but Some Indians especially BJP leaders applaud him more as he escaped rather then being killed by their adversary

BJP leader doesn't want to associate much with anyone losing against Muslims definitively. And your answer was good.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Never knew you are the authority on whats famous or not from the Indian perspective!
Champion posters

The world knows Aurangzeb but who knows his adversary...answer objectively

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

The world knows Aurangzeb but who knows his adversary...answer objectively

World Knows Aurangzeb?? Really? What is this world definition you are carrying on with?

And anyways in the opening post you posted about Prithvi Raj and Shivaji.. why are you dragging in Aurangzeb here?
Stay consistent buddy, dont change goal posts in every other post or start a new thread for that.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Pakistan has statues for ranjit. It's a nation with Stockholm Syndrome

 

[The Bald Eagle]

World Knows Aurangzeb?? Really? What is this world definition you are carrying on with?

And anyways in the opening post you posted about Prithvi Raj and Shivaji.. why are you dragging in Aurangzeb here?
Stay consistent buddy, dont change goal posts in every other post or start a new thread for that.

Aurangzeb is the person to whom chhatrapati owns its fame. It's fact which you can't deny

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Aurangzeb is the person to whom chhatrapati owns its fame. It's fact which you can't deny

Ok Indian history expert

Remind what the title of thread started by yourself is. .
Then you will randomly start deleting posts as irrelevant to topic of the thread.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

World Knows Aurangzeb?? Really? What is this world definition you are carrying on with?

And anyways in the opening post you posted about Prithvi Raj and Shivaji.. why are you dragging in Aurangzeb here?
Stay consistent buddy, dont change goal posts in every other post or start a new thread for that.

World knows Aurangzeb because Indians keep his memory alive by giving him lot of publicity as arch villain of Mughal era. The Prithvi and Shivaji, let's be honest, most people had never heard of them before these threads were posted.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Neither of these needs applause.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Neither of these needs applause.

Atleast an opinion with no intent of trolling and thats respectable for a discussion.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Hume accha lagta hai.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

World knows Aurangzeb because Indians keep his memory alive by giving him lot of publicity as arch villain of Mughal era. The Prithvi and Shivaji, let's be honest, most people had never heard of them before these threads were posted.

True...these people are just eulogized for their opposition to Muslim leaders... although Sikh leaders did offer way stronger resistance to them.

Infact it is just part of RSS and BJP brainwashing campaign to make hero anyone who was apparently anti muslim

 

[cricketjoshila]

True...these people are just eulogized for their opposition to Muslim leaders... although Sikh leaders did offer way stronger resistance to them.

Infact it is just part of RSS and BJP brainwashing campaign to make hero anyone who was apparently anti muslim

Marathas sacked Delhi. The Mughal emperor became a protectorate of the Marathas.

Shivaji Maharaj and the Marathas have been heroes of the Hindus long before BJP and RSS came into being.

 

[JaDed]

That’s because you only see news of Maharastra where Shivaji is famous, if you saw south Indian news you will see Dravidian kings.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Both are regarded as great warriors of medieval India.
IMO, Shivaji gets more mentioned as Mumbai is the economic hub of India and the name of Shivaji is plastered all over Maharashtra including Mumbai. His statues are everywhere. Gets more mention in the media.
Shivaji also established the largest Hindu empire since the Gupta’s of 4th-6th century Bharat. He did what was impossible at that time. Go single-handedly against multiple Turkic sultanates of South India and Mughals of North India at that time.

Shivaji ended Mughal rule and reduced them to name sake. Of course British took over from Marathas easily after British defeated Marathas decisively in 1818.
After Aurangzeb’s death in 1707, Mughals lost control of India. The next few successors of Aurangzeb were weak and subordinate of British.

Finally Shivaji is of more recent memory and his life and achievements are recorded more in detail than Prithvi Raj Chauhan.

IMO, Marathas could have ruled entire Indian subcontinent had they gotten full support from all Rajput kingdoms. The support was broken and often Rajputs fought Marathas in support of Mughals. A sad story of India. Even British would not have defeated Marathas if all the Hindu kingdoms united in support of Marathas.

 

[sweep_shot]

British Empire and Mughal Empire once jointly fought these Marathi lunatics and guess who won? British Empire and Mughal Empire won.

Here was the war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Maratha_War.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Both are regarded as great warriors of medieval India.
IMO, Shivaji gets more mentioned as Mumbai is the economic hub of India and the name of Shivaji is plastered all over Maharashtra including Mumbai. His statues are everywhere. Gets more mention in the media.
Shivaji also established the largest Hindu empire since the Gupta’s of 4th-6th century Bharat. He did what was impossible at that time. Go single-handedly against multiple Turkic sultanates of South India and Mughals of North India at that time.

Shivaji ended Mughal rule and reduced them to name sake. Of course British took over from Marathas easily after British defeated Marathas decisively in 1818.
After Aurangzeb’s death in 1707, Mughals lost control of India. The next few successors of Aurangzeb were weak and subordinate of British.

Finally Shivaji is of more recent memory and his life and achievements are recorded more in detail than Prithvi Raj Chauhan.

IMO, Marathas could have ruled entire Indian subcontinent had they gotten full support from all Rajput kingdoms. The support was broken and often Rajputs fought Marathas in support of Mughals. A sad story of India. Even British would not have defeated Marathas if all the Hindu kingdoms united in support of Marathas.

Nope after Gupta it was Vijayanagra empire and all Marathas did was expedite British take over of subcontinent. So to put it plainly their activities just resulted in change of masters nothing else.
====

Vijayanagara Empire (14th-17th century CE): Renowned for its powerful military, magnificent architecture, and thriving culture, it played a significant role in Indian history

 

[The Bald Eagle]

British Empire and Mughal Empire once jointly fought these Marathi lunatics and guess who won? British Empire and Mughal Empire won.

Here was the war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Maratha_War.

British won it with too little a effort, courtesy to local Hindus

 

[sweep_shot]

British won it with too little a effort, courtesy to local Hindus

I see.

BJP people like to promote Marathis as some sort of successful warriors. In reality, they suffered more defeats than victories.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I see.

BJP people like to promote Marathis as some sort of successful warriors. In reality, they suffered more defeats than victories.

Just because they fought rulers whose religion was Islam

 

[Champ_Pal]

Nope after Gupta it was Vijayanagra empire and all Marathas did was expedite British take over of subcontinent. So to put it plainly their activities just resulted in change of masters nothing else.
====

Vijayanagara Empire (14th-17th century CE): Renowned for its powerful military, magnificent architecture, and thriving culture, it played a significant role in Indian history

Vijayanagar empire was only limited to South India and they were constantly fighting the Deccan sultanate. Most of Vijayanagar was limited to modern Indian states of Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh and parts of Tamilnadu. South India too had smaller Sultanates. It was a big mess and the fighting never stopped.

Marathas could not compete with the guns of British. A superior military.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Vijayanagar empire was only limited to South India and they were constantly fighting the Deccan sultanate. Most of Vijayanagar was limited to modern Indian states of Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh and parts of Tamilnadu. South India too had smaller Sultanates. It was a big mess and the fighting never stopped.

Marathas could not compete with the guns of British. A superior military.

But British had just 1/10 strength in man power. Their main allies were your own countrymen

 

[Champ_Pal]

But British had just 1/10 strength in man power. Their main allies were your own countrymen

British army was all made of locals. Local Indians using British weaponry. Only the army Generals were people from British isles.
It has always been the case with India. Majority of the foreign army was made of locals. Only the high command Generals, Ghazis and commanders were foreign.

It’s always Indians fighting Indians.

 

[Champ_Pal]

I see.

BJP people like to promote Marathis as some sort of successful warriors. In reality, they suffered more defeats than victories.

Marathas finished off Mughals and reduced them to a small area near Delhi. At the height of Maratha rule, only the Nizams of Hyderabad were able to stave off Marathas from taking over their territory.

Mughals never corroborated with British to defeat Marathas. From your own Wiki link, it says that Marathas lost to Yashwant Rao Holkar of Indore. To save his life Peshwa Baji Rao's son seeked British help and signed a treaty with British East India Company and ceded territory to British and became a vassal of British Raj. The rest is history. British quickly took over complete control of Maratha empire and the entire subcontinent fell to British.

So not sure where you are getting the Jai-Viru duo of British+Mughals defeating Marathas from. In your own fantasy world? May be I missed something. Point to me from the link you posted where British and Mughals joined forces to defeat Marathas.

British were opportunistic and smart. They never directly participated in wars. It was always the locals fighting. They support one side by giving them guns. When the time presents, they take over the land.

British did not take subcontinent from Mughals. They took it from Marathas by decisively defeating them.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@sweep_shot but Delhi Sultanate was Haram and this was Halal and progressive regime . And burning temples here were justified
===

The Maratha Empire, while known for its military prowess and administrative achievements, was also involved in several conflicts and atrocities:

1. Maratha Invasions of Bengal (1742-1751): The Marathas invaded Bengal multiple times, leading to significant civilian casualties. Atrocities included mass killings, mutilations, and sexual violence against the local population.
2. Attacks on Temples and Towns in Karnataka: In the 1750s, Maratha armies destroyed numerous Hindu temples and towns in Karnataka, forcing the Maharaja of Mysore to pay a large ransom.
3. Punishments under Maratha Rule: The Marathas employed severe punishments, including impaling, trampling by elephants, amputation of limbs, and other corporal punishments

 

[sweep_shot]

@sweep_shot but Delhi Sultanate was Haram and this was Halal and progressive regime . And burning temples here were justified
===

The Maratha Empire, while known for its military prowess and administrative achievements, was also involved in several conflicts and atrocities:

1. Maratha Invasions of Bengal (1742-1751): The Marathas invaded Bengal multiple times, leading to significant civilian casualties. Atrocities included mass killings, mutilations, and sexual violence against the local population.
2. 
   
3. Attacks on Temples and Towns in Karnataka: In the 1750s, Maratha armies destroyed numerous Hindu temples and towns in Karnataka, forcing the Maharaja of Mysore to pay a large ransom.
4. 
   
5. Punishments under Maratha Rule: The Marathas employed severe punishments, including impaling, trampling by elephants, amputation of limbs, and other corporal punishments

One Indian poster once defended King Asoka who literally burned concubines to death.

These people have zero moral compasses. It is why I don't seriously debate with them regarding these topics. Their minds are closed.

 

[speed]

Marathas finished off Mughals and reduced them to a small area near Delhi. At the height of Maratha rule, only the Nizams of Hyderabad were able to stave off Marathas from taking over their territory.
View attachment 151258
Mughals never corroborated with British to defeat Marathas. From your own Wiki link, it says that Marathas lost to Yashwant Rao Holkar of Indore. To save his life Peshwa Baji Rao's son seeked British help and signed a treaty with British East India Company and ceded territory to British and became a vassal of British Raj. The rest is history. British quickly took over complete control of Maratha empire and the entire subcontinent fell to British.

So not sure where you are getting the Jai-Viru duo of British+Mughals defeating Marathas from. In your own fantasy world? May be I missed something. Point to me from the link you posted where British and Mughals joined forces to defeat Marathas.

British were opportunistic and smart. They never directly participated in wars. It was always the locals fighting. They support one side by giving them guns. When the time presents, they take over the land.

British did not take subcontinent from Mughals. They took it from Marathas by decisively defeating them.

that Map is exaggerated, Real map is more like this

 

[The Bald Eagle]

And no comparison to even Delhi Sultanate

that Map is exaggerated, Real map is more like this

 

[speed]

And no comparison to even Delhi Sultanate

View attachment 151328

medivial indian was mostly Muslims fighting other muslim kings for small kindgdoms, untill the mughals.

 

[speed]

medivial india was mostly Muslims fighting other muslim kings for small kingdoms, untill the mughals.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@sweep_shot but Delhi Sultanate was Haram and this was Halal and progressive regime . And burning temples here were justified
===

The Maratha Empire, while known for its military prowess and administrative achievements, was also involved in several conflicts and atrocities:

1. Maratha Invasions of Bengal (1742-1751): The Marathas invaded Bengal multiple times, leading to significant civilian casualties. Atrocities included mass killings, mutilations, and sexual violence against the local population.
2. Attacks on Temples and Towns in Karnataka: In the 1750s, Maratha armies destroyed numerous Hindu temples and towns in Karnataka, forcing the Maharaja of Mysore to pay a large ransom.
3. Punishments under Maratha Rule: The Marathas employed severe punishments, including impaling, trampling by elephants, amputation of limbs, and other corporal punishments

@cricketjoshila saints for you....but but.....

 

[cricketjoshila]

@cricketjoshila saints for you....but but.....

Bengal was ruled by Mughals and later nawabs. Marathas fought against these people. They wanted to flush out these invaders and their supporters.

The Maratha Mysore battles were mostly fought when Mysore was ruled by Haider Ali and Tipu Sultan. Read about the Maratha Mysore wars.

Corporal punishment exists in most countries even now. So?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@sweep_shot but Delhi Sultanate was Haram and this was Halal and progressive regime . And burning temples here were justified
===

The Maratha Empire, while known for its military prowess and administrative achievements, was also involved in several conflicts and atrocities:

1. Maratha Invasions of Bengal (1742-1751): The Marathas invaded Bengal multiple times, leading to significant civilian casualties. Atrocities included mass killings, mutilations, and sexual violence against the local population.
2. Attacks on Temples and Towns in Karnataka: In the 1750s, Maratha armies destroyed numerous Hindu temples and towns in Karnataka, forcing the Maharaja of Mysore to pay a large ransom.
3. Punishments under Maratha Rule: The Marathas employed severe punishments, including impaling, trampling by elephants, amputation of limbs, and other corporal punishments

@cricketjoshila may be you have missed everything...check again above...Temples burned too besides blood bath etc..... Which standard will you apply now?

 

[cricketjoshila]

@cricketjoshila may be you have missed everything...check again above...Temples burned too besides blood bath etc..... Which standard will you apply now?

No evidence of temple burnt. But plenty of evidence of temples built.

Just FYI Marathas rebuilt the temples at Ujjain, Varanasi, Grishneshwar and many more.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

@sweep_shot but Delhi Sultanate was Haram and this was Halal and progressive regime . And burning temples here were justified
===

The Maratha Empire, while known for its military prowess and administrative achievements, was also involved in several conflicts and atrocities:

1. Maratha Invasions of Bengal (1742-1751): The Marathas invaded Bengal multiple times, leading to significant civilian casualties. Atrocities included mass killings, mutilations, and sexual violence against the local population.
2. Attacks on Temples and Towns in Karnataka: In the 1750s, Maratha armies destroyed numerous Hindu temples and towns in Karnataka, forcing the Maharaja of Mysore to pay a large ransom.
3. Punishments under Maratha Rule: The Marathas employed severe punishments, including impaling, trampling by elephants, amputation of limbs, and other corporal punishments

When Indians express horror at medieval eras of Mughal rule, they usually forget the history of caste based oppression that was enforced by Hindu rule prior to and during that period.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

When Indians express horror at medieval eras of Mughal rule, they usually forget the history of caste based oppression that was enforced by Hindu rule prior to and during that period.

And the height of hypocrisy is when you get to know that Hindus have killed more Hindus in history than Muslims who ruled India.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No evidence of temple burnt. But plenty of evidence of temples built.

Just FYI Marathas rebuilt the temples at Ujjain, Varanasi, Grishneshwar and many more.

What are you talking about?... @uppercut tagged you as well as you are ever ready to condemn temple desecrations so would you condemn now? @Rajdeep plz see my post 44 too.

Notable examples include:

• Sringeri Mutt: In 1791, Maratha soldiers, specifically irregulars like the Pindaris, raided and looted the Sringeri Shankaracharya temple, causing significant damage and loss of life
• Kudli Mutt: The Marathas also attacked and massacred non-Brahmins at Kudli Mutt during the same period
• Other Temples: Maratha invasions in Karnataka during the late 18th century led to the destruction of numerous temples and villages, with many documented cases of looting and burning