Why is India not holding talks with Pakistan when it is talking to China: Mehbooba Mufti

[MenInG]

Former chief minister of Indian occupied Kashmir (IoK) Mehbooba Mufti questioned why India was unwilling to hold talks with Pakistan when it was talking to China despite Beijing taking “India’s lands”.

“There should be a dialogue between the two countries [India and Pakistan]. If we are talking to China, which has taken our land, why not with Pakistan? Is it about being a Muslim country because everything is communal now,” questioned the Kashmiri leader while talking about local elections in the occupied region.

Speaking to reporters in Srinagar, Mufti also slammed the ruling Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) for its actions in the country, saying that Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi was trying to build an environment where these is “no place for democracy”.

“There is no place for real democracy in BJP’s India,” reported Scroll.in citing the Hindustan Times.

“They want to create their own ecosystem. They have their own puppets and B-teams whom they want to install here [occupied Kashmir] and that is why they are making so many efforts for DDC elections,” observed Mufti while speaking to an Indian journalist regarding the first phase of District Development Council elections that were held on Sunday.

Reinstate Article 370

The Kashmiri leader also demanded that Article 370 of the Indian Constitution, which grants special status to occupied Kashmir, should be reinstated.

Mufti warned India that the “Kashmir problem” will continue if Article 370 is not reinstated.

“Ministers will come and go. Simply conducting elections is no solution to the problem,” said Mufti.

Source Geo

 

[The Viper]

Not hard to understand. The hatred between Pakistan and India is deeply rooted.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Not hard to understand. The hatred between Pakistan and India is deeply rooted.

Also can't treat countries like China the way they treat each other.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I think the Modi govt is jealous because our “tea is fantastic.”

 

[Giannis]

China is a world power and way stronger than India, India knows they would be blown out the water in a conflict so have no other choice but to negotiate.

 

[cricketjoshila]

China is a world power and way stronger than India, India knows they would be blown out the water in a conflict so have no other choice but to negotiate.

If India was so weak, China wont be negotiating.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think the Modi govt is jealous because our “tea is fantastic.”

Maybe they read your post in the how Pakistan is seen in the rest of the world and agreed that finding an honest Pakistani is like finding a needle in a haystack so can't really blame them for not trusting Pakistan. Would you want to hold talks with a nation of thieves, liars, paedophiles, etc?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Maybe they read your post in the how Pakistan is seen in the rest of the world and agreed that finding an honest Pakistani is like finding a needle in a haystack so can't really blame them for not trusting Pakistan. Would you want to hold talks with a nation of thieves, liars, paedophiles, etc?

Problem is, India does have an edge on a couple of other avenues, but the ills of society that I mentioned, especially corruption and injustice are almost equally rampant in India. So that doesn’t give them an edge or a higher ground of morality. So no, your logic doesn’t apply here.
India Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh. etc are about in the same breadth when it comes classification of corruption in a third world country.

 

[PakPremi]

Problem is, India does have an edge on a couple of other avenues, but the ills of society that I mentioned, especially corruption and injustice are almost equally rampant in India. So that doesn’t give them an edge or a higher ground of morality. So no, your logic doesn’t apply here.
India Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh. etc are about in the same breadth when it comes classification of corruption in a third world country.

What about Sri Lanka - there have been many corruption allegations and also civil wars there not so long ago.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

What about Sri Lanka - there have been many corruption allegations and also civil wars there not so long ago.

Sri Lanka still ranks at 91 on scale of corruption. The problem seems to be is in the desi DNA.

Or if you look at the golden words that Imran Khan once said.

"What makes a third world country, a third world country?
Corruption!"

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sri Lanka still ranks at 91 on scale of corruption. The problem seems to be is in the desi DNA.

Or if you look at the golden words that Imran Khan once said.

"What makes a third world country, a third world country?
Corruption!"

This is an interesting take on it, but in fact it could be found in historical accounts from British colonialists who often described the Indian race as cunning or duplicitous during their time ruling the continent. It is certainly interesting to hear echoes of it from those of desi DNA proffer the same opinions themselves hundreds of years later.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

This is an interesting take on it, but in fact it could be found in historical accounts from British colonialists who often described the Indian race as cunning or duplicitous during their time ruling the continent. It is certainly interesting to hear echoes of it from those of desi DNA proffer the same opinions themselves hundreds of years later.

So you believe the British were wrong or do you have a different take on it? Can't have it both ways.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So you believe the British were wrong or do you have a different take on it? Can't have it both ways.

I have already answered this in other threads, my view has always been systems create order, but I am certainly open minded to any other suggestions. I suppose you might argue why desi DNA have not created systems after all this time. Would certainly love to discuss it further.

When you say can't have it both ways, what is the other way you are referring to? Is it your belief that some races are inherently deceitful and prone to duplicity and perversion?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I have already answered this in other threads, my view has always been systems create order, but I am certainly open minded to any other suggestions. I suppose you might argue why desi DNA have not created systems after all this time. Would certainly love to discuss it further.

When you say can't have it both ways, what is the other way you are referring to? Is it your belief that some races are inherently deceitful and prone to duplicity and perversion?

So first things first, when I said "The problem seems to be is in the desi DNA", it was only a lame attempt at humor. Hopefully, you haven't taken it to heart.

On a serious note though, for the last few days, I've been thinking to start a new thread where we can discuss this topic and have a good exchange of scholarly discussion in a friendly environment.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So first things first, when I said "The problem seems to be is in the desi DNA", it was only a lame attempt at humor. Hopefully, you haven't taken it to heart.

On a serious note though, for the last few days, I've been thinking to start a new thread where we can discuss this topic and have a good exchange of scholarly discussion in a friendly environment.

They are your words bro, why would I take it to heart? I think it would be a good idea to have a thread, I do see a lot of despair and self flagellation in threads like the 'how do other people think of Pakistanis' thread, and I prefer objective analysis to understand where it comes from rather than crying. That is the only way of fixing something in my view.

Anyway, enough of that, on the topic of why is India not talking to Pakistan when it is talking to China, the answer is quite simple. The current Indian govt doesn't believe Pakistan should even exist so what is there to talk about?

 

[OMB]

‘Don’t test our patience’: Mehbooba Mufti compares J&K with Afghanistan situation; BJP hits back

Former Deputy chief minister of Jammu and Kashmir Nirmal Singh said that Mehbooba Mufti must understand that this is Narendra Modi’s new India and it will not be blackmailed.

New Delhi: Glorifying Taliban, former Jammu & Kashmir chief minister Mehbooba Mufti said superpower America was forced to pack its bag in Afghanistan and warned the Union government to restart talks the way Atal Bihari Vajpayee did and restore Article 370 otherwise it will be too late.

In her speech, Mufti said, “don’t test our patience and change your ways while you still have a chance. Remember how Vajpayee initiated the peace process. You must restart talks with Kashmiris and return whatever you have looted.”

She further urged the people to fight against the abrogation of Article 370 “peacefully”.

Attacking Mufti, BJP leader Nirmal Singh called her desperate and frustrated as she has lost political ground.

“If she thinks that she can blackmail us then she needs to understand that this is Modi’s India. Those days are gone and we will not be blackmailed,” he added.

After being released from detention in October last year, Mufti has repeatedly urged the Union government to hold talks with Pakistan.

In July, she said India should talk to Pakistan for resolution of the Kashmir issue and putting an end to the bloodshed in the region.

She wants India to hold talks with Pakistan
On the second anniversary of the revocation of Jammu and Kashmir’s special status, she took out a protest in Srinagar saying “we” will resist and force the government to speak to Pakistan to address external dimensions.

Vajpayee’s doctrine of peace was based on Insaniyat (humanity), Jamhuriyat (democracy) and Kashmiriyat (communal harmony and religious syncretism).

He batted for resolving all outstanding issues with Pakistan, including Jammu and Kashmir issue through bilateral talks and arrived in Lahore in February 1999 but General Pervez Musharraf stabbed India in the back and launched the Kargil operation to sabotage the talks and topple the Nawaz Sharif government

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/don-t-test-our-patience-mehbooba-mufti-compares-jk-with-afghanistan-situation-bjp-hits-back/801945

 

[IMMY69]

If India are talking to China then they are talking to Pakistan.

 

[Napa]

The Indian Government's question is "How will talks benefit us?"

Peace between the two countries would benefit both, but is possible?

There seemed to have been progress towards peace with the Lahore Declaration in 1999.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahore_Declaration#Pakistan_public_and_media_opinion

However the Pakistani Army/ISI quickly sabotaged the progress by starting the Kargil War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_War#Background

GOI's belief is that the conditions within Pakistan imply that the Pakistani Army will want to keep India as an external enemy like it did in 1999.

So no point in engaging in talks, especially with IK who keeps abusing Modi, get false hope and be disappointed again.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

The Indian Government's question is "How will talks benefit us?"

Peace between the two countries would benefit both, but is possible?

There seemed to have been progress towards peace with the Lahore Declaration in 1999.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahore_Declaration#Pakistan_public_and_media_opinion

However the Pakistani Army/ISI quickly sabotaged the progress by starting the Kargil War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_War#Background

GOI's belief is that the conditions within Pakistan imply that the Pakistani Army will want to keep India as an external enemy like it did in 1999.

So no point in engaging in talks, especially with IK who keeps abusing Modi, get false hope and be disappointed again.

wrong, IMO.

The only reason why Modi won't hold talks with Pakistan is because he will shoot himself in the foot.

The entire BJP politics is primarily based upon hatred towards Pakistan, and secondarily, holding Indian Muslims responsible for the Muslim rule of India centuries ago.

If there was no Muslims in India and if there was no Pakistan, BJP would not last 2 days of it's existence.

 

[Napa]

I think talks will be worthwhile if there is the prospect that the LoC will be converted to the international border. That is what is needed for peace, but that is not what the Pakistani Army wants now, maybe a few decades in the future it will agree to that change.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Why would India talk.

Making a bogey man out of Pakistan and banding the population to hating Pakistan is what gets Modi the most votes. That’s why the whole air strike was done (different matter india was humiliated on global stage after having missed its ta gets and then its jet downed). Talks with Pakistan means that the issue is dead and can’t be used for votes

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why would India talk.

Making a bogey man out of Pakistan and banding the population to hating Pakistan is what gets Modi the most votes. That’s why the whole air strike was done (different matter india was humiliated on global stage after having missed its ta gets and then its jet downed). Talks with Pakistan means that the issue is dead and can’t be used for votes

India shouldn't talk because talks with Pakistan are useless. Pakistan has a habit of not adhering to any agreements.

1949 Ceasefire agreement broken by Pakistan in 1965.

1971 Shimla Agreement broken.

1999 Lahore declaration broken within weeks in kargil.

Vajpayee lost elections due to his overfriendly atitude towards pakistan despite what happened in Kargil.

MMS is called one of the weakest PM's in India's history due to his weak pakistan policy.

People of India want a safe India and India has been safer since shutting down the door to Pakistan.

Modi wins because the opposition are a bunch of corrupt jokers, who still dont understand that by hankering after muslim votes and appeasing them in a 80 per cent non muslim country they may win a few seats but hindu votes consolidation will mean they will lose overall.

He wins because his administration is overall less compromised by bureaucracy.

He wins because his focus is on Economy and his government isnt corrupt.

Ofcourse his hardline pakistan policy is popular with people, but its only one of the several reasons he wins.

 

[cricketjoshila]

wrong, IMO.

The only reason why Modi won't hold talks with Pakistan is because he will shoot himself in the foot.

The entire BJP politics is primarily based upon hatred towards Pakistan, and secondarily, holding Indian Muslims responsible for the Muslim rule of India centuries ago.

If there was no Muslims in India and if there was no Pakistan, BJP would not last 2 days of it's existence.

BJP's policy is that in a 80 per cent non muslim country, muslims cannot hold a political veto. Non NDA parties openly do muslim appeasement using tax payers money or by bringing laws and rules that hurt the interests of the other communities while protecting only muslim interests. There are issues of law and order where administration has let the accused go free because he is from a certain community. For decades there was no option for other communities as no party was willing to hurt the muslim votebank as the hindu votes were not united but divided by castes.

Modi led BJP has provided the other communities an option. He has managed to unite the hindu votes and that makes it irrelevant whether muslims vote for him or not, though he wins significant number of shia votes. Currently BJP has a backward caste PM and a mixture of forward and backward ministers. He has thus consolidated the vote equation.

His government is non corrupt, and considered more efficient than others.

The opposition are a bunch of dynastic jokers. Atleast in BJP we wont get someone as PM or CM just because his father or mother were PMs or CMs.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

BJP's policy is that in a 80 per cent non muslim country, muslims cannot hold a political veto. Non NDA parties openly do muslim appeasement using tax payers money or by bringing laws and rules that hurt the interests of the other communities while protecting only muslim interests. There are issues of law and order where administration has let the accused go free because he is from a certain community. For decades there was no option for other communities as no party was willing to hurt the muslim votebank as the hindu votes were not united but divided by castes.

Modi led BJP has provided the other communities an option. He has managed to unite the hindu votes and that makes it irrelevant whether muslims vote for him or not, though he wins significant number of shia votes. Currently BJP has a backward caste PM and a mixture of forward and backward ministers. He has thus consolidated the vote equation.

And the way he united Hindus is to instigate hatred and vendetta against Muslims, which proves my point. Had there been no Muslims in India or no existence of Pakistan, BJP would not survive.

Modi would unite “Hindus” against who? Sikhs? Christians?

Or perhaps Brahmins against Dalits?
No one knows the future but looks like those days may not be far either.
After the minorities, they will go after low caste Hindus and then, after Hindu women, for not being in the kitchen and out in the streets wearing western clothes.

His government is non corrupt, and considered more efficient than others.[/B]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought India slipped 10 points on scale of corrupting from 2016 to 2020


From 76 to 86, no?

The opposition are a bunch of dynastic jokers. Atleast in BJP we wont get someone as PM or CM just because his father or mother were PMs or CMs.

Yes that’s a fact. Sticking with Modi is awesome, as he is good for you and good for Pakistan. Fascism leads to self destruction and Modi is doing a great job at. Read the underlined above.

 

[Napa]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought India slipped 10 points on scale of corrupting from 2016 to 2020

I assume you are referring to the Transparency International rankings.

India's score has remained unchanged at 40 from 2016 to 2020 at 40.

Not sure why you are comparing 2016 to 2020, both years had a BJP government.

The last year that was entirely Congress was 2013. That year India's score was 36. So there has been definite improvement from Congress to BJP.

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2013/index/ind#

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/ind#

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I assume you are referring to the Transparency International rankings.

India's score has remained unchanged at 40 from 2016 to 2020 at 40.

Not sure why you are comparing 2016 to 2020, both years had a BJP government.

The last year that was entirely Congress was 2013. That year India's score was 36. So there has been definite improvement from Congress to BJP.

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2013/index/ind#

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/ind#

Thank you.
May be I was reading the wrong info.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...on-perception-index-2020-101611842471461.html


https://tradingeconomics.com/india/corruption-rank

There could be more sources and I haven’t done any research yet to see the rate of farmer suicide rate under Modi.
I’ve heard it’s not to be proud of.

 

[Napa]

Thank you.
May be I was reading the wrong info.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...on-perception-index-2020-101611842471461.html


https://tradingeconomics.com/india/corruption-rank

There could be more sources and I haven’t done any research yet to see the rate of farmer suicide rate under Modi.
I’ve heard it’s not to be proud of.

There is a lot of poverty in India, which is something to acknowledge. By no means has India reached any sort of ideal. However, there has been improvement over the last 7 years.

No country in the world is really ideal. The US is rich but people lack good human relationships. China is economically improving but is still a dictatorship and no idea where it will be a few decades from now. Dictatorships usually end with violence.

Farmer suicides are one aspect of poverty, and points to the fact that many Indians still live in extreme poverty. Maybe if India is able to increase its manufacturing industries and tourism it will be able to generate jobs to help many escape poverty. Agriculture is tapped out.