Why is India not more popularly known for producing swing bowlers?

[hafizexpress]

You always hear about Pakistan or Australia when it comes to unearthing fast-bowling talent. And although India does not have the same history of fast bowling to boast about, in every era they have produced multiple pacers who have the ability to skillfully move the ball. They are/were not average bowlers either. Recently we have seen Mohammad Siraj who has shown he can move the ball both ways with pace which is something India has definitely lacked. But then India has had the likes of Bhvneshwar Kumar, Praveen Kumar, Zaheer Khan, Irfan Pathan, and recently, Arshdeep Singh, who despite not being the quickest bowlers, had wristy skills. Jasprit Bumrah has also started to swing the ball after pitching his length up post-injury. Hardik Pandya has also shown to be able to move the ball when the conditions are right.

These are just a handful off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. I did not follow cricket before 2009 as I was young but judging off this crop of bowlers, I'm sure India had even more prior to then. I hear Kapil Dev could swing the ball both ways as well.

Is there any other country that has produced as many decent to good bowlers who could swing the ball as India has in the last decade and a half? This question and my assessment are not posed to simply praise India but out of genuine curiosity as of well. And also to highlight that India goes under the radar when it comes to producing skillful bowlers due to the batting talent they produce plus the whole fast bowling-paradise imagery around Pakistan often overshadows its neighbours.

 

[Devadwal]

Becouse in 90s Indian pace Bowlers were bowling like very harmless and toothless .it's only after 2015 our pace attack is looking at another level .

 

[amax]

lack of marketing, like zaheer khan was never marketed as MVP in india , it was all about Sachin, Sehwag , Ganguly, even now, all the marketing hype is around Kohli, Rohit and even Jadeja , when likes of Bumrah, shami and Siraj are overshadowed by there commercial value but in reality are a bigger asset to team.

 

[jnaveen1980]

In India bowlers are never going to reach demigod status. It is simply not in the culture. You can be as good as Bumrah. Still won't be enough. Batsmen are always worshipped. Sachin, MSD, Kohli, Rohit most recently SKY. Appreciation of bowlers is generally temporary. Appreciation of batsmen is always permanent. Only some English/ Aussie commies give due credit. But in a way that is good for India. Less hyped. No pressure.

 

[Major]

Swing bowlers dont get famous. Its always the pacy bowlers that end up bowling bouncers.

Pakistan got famous for its bowlers due to Sarfraz Nawaz, Imran Khan, Akram and Waqar. While initially Pakistan got famous for its pace, but when Akram and co started bolwing, they were labels of ball tempering as they were doing reverse swing. Those allegations added to the folktale of Pakistani bowlers.

Indian bowlers will only get famous when they actually bowl bouncers and hurt players, plus some bowling skill is attributed to them.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Bharat is a batting country.

However in recent times, we have created a sort of a bowling aura as well and your thread is a proof of the visible change in image of our bowling which is finally being recognised.

At purely swing bowling, we are among the best.

You forgot to mention Sreesanth. Arguably our best talent but got lost due to mental health issues.

 

[kron]

Swing bowlers dont get famous. Its always the pacy bowlers that end up bowling bouncers.

Pakistan got famous for its bowlers due to Sarfraz Nawaz, Imran Khan, Akram and Waqar. While initially Pakistan got famous for its pace, but when Akram and co started bolwing, they were labels of ball tempering as they were doing reverse swing. Those allegations added to the folktale of Pakistani bowlers.

Indian bowlers will only get famous when they actually bowl bouncers and hurt players, plus some bowling skill is attributed to them.

They have been very good since about 2014.top bowling in tests.

 

[Mesozoic]

You get "popularly known" for just one thing..


For Pakistan, it's fast bowling.

For India, it's batting.

Pakistan has produced batsmen like Miandad, Z Abbas, Inzi, Younis Khan, MoYo, Anwar, Babar etc but they're not popularly known for their batting are they?

 

[kron]

Bharat is a batting country.

However in recent times, we have created a sort of a bowling aura as well and your thread is a proof of the visible change in image of our bowling which is finally being recognised.

At purely swing bowling, we are among the best.

You forgot to mention Sreesanth. Arguably our best talent but got lost due to mental health issues.

I rate sree. Was good at his best in the world cups too.

 

[Bhaijaan]

You get "popularly known" for just one thing..


For Pakistan, it's fast bowling.

For India, it's batting.

Pakistan has produced batsmen like Miandad, Z Abbas, Inzi, Younis Khan, MoYo, Anwar, Babar etc but they're not popularly known for their batting are they?

Strong point actually!

 

[Bhaijaan]

I rate sree. Was good at his best in the world cups too.

In the world cups I only remember him getting phainty from Nazir.
In 2011 he didn’t even play a single
Match

 

[Major]

lets be honest, who will fear a bowler who lives on a vegetarian diet?

 

[Devadwal]

In the world cups I only remember him getting phainty from Nazir.
In 2011 he didn’t even play a single
Match

Unfortunately he had played first game and Final( Due to Nehra injury) of the 2011 world cup .

 

[jnaveen1980]

Swing bowlers dont get famous. Its always the pacy bowlers that end up bowling bouncers.

Pakistan got famous for its bowlers due to Sarfraz Nawaz, Imran Khan, Akram and Waqar. While initially Pakistan got famous for its pace, but when Akram and co started bolwing, they were labels of ball tempering as they were doing reverse swing. Those allegations added to the folktale of Pakistani bowlers.

Indian bowlers will only get famous when they actually bowl bouncers and hurt players, plus some bowling skill is attributed to them.

You must be kidding right. India completely bullied Australia in 2018 series with short ball tactics. They have been bloody good in Tests for the last 5 or 6 years. Shami could sustain pace of 138 to 142 k whole day. Bowling 4 overs of 145k will just give you an illusion. Heck even Umran could do and he badly hurt Shakib and he was winded. He couldn't even bowl after that injury in the recent series. Test matches show the real quality of fast bowling not 4 over T20s.

 

[Major]

You must be kidding right. India completely bullied Australia in 2018 series with short ball tactics. They have been bloody good in Tests for the last 5 or 6 years. Shami could sustain pace of 138 to 142 k whole day. Bowling 4 overs of 145k will just give you an illusion. Heck even Umran could do and he badly hurt Shakib and he was winded. He couldn't even bowl after that injury in the recent series. Test matches show the real quality of fast bowling not 4 over T20s.

another day and another indian takes criticism very personally. Which is why having any discussing with an Indian is very boring.

Read the thread title plz. Its about whye India not popular in bowling even after they have done all that what you wrote.

 

[Itachi]

another day and another indian takes criticism very personally. Which is why having any discussing with an Indian is very boring.

Read the thread title plz. Its about whye India not popular in bowling even after they have done all that what you wrote.

This is a new tricks that I am seeing in this recent trends in PP by some posters.

Someone will say "X is ......"

If any one presents an opposing argument, they turn that in to "taking criticism personally" which is actually an obstacle to have constructive discussion and dimishes interactivity between the posters.

It is of course within the forum rules but not in "good faith"

 

[jnaveen1980]

another day and another indian takes criticism very personally. Which is why having any discussing with an Indian is very boring.

Read the thread title plz. Its about whye India not popular in bowling even after they have done all that what you wrote.

Not true. No bowler gets popular is becoming famous for hitting batsmen. You think Sean abbot is revered for killing Phil Hughes? Not true. You need wickets. Not injuries at the of the day as you seem to believe. Mitchell Johson was so famous for that one series not because he bullied England. But he took boat load of wickets.

 

[Major]

This is a new tricks that I am seeing in this recent trends in PP by some posters.

Someone will say "X is ......"

If any one presents an opposing argument, they turn that in to "taking criticism personally" which is actually an obstacle to have constructive discussion and dimishes interactivity between the posters.

It is of course within the forum rules but not in "good faith"

This isnt a trick. Its known around the forum that Indian posters cant take criticism and anytime India cricket or india the country is critisized they take it personally, thus constructive discussion never takes place.

When it comes to Pakistani or foreign Pakistani posters, they do self criticism and discussion with them is different as they dont take it personally especially when it comes to cricket.

You can call this trick or trend, but discussion with Indian posters go no where as they will defend and take very discussion as India vs the world.

And i will call it out and avoid having any kind of discussion with Indians here

 

[docteurmanish]

You always hear about Pakistan or Australia when it comes to unearthing fast-bowling talent. And although India does not have the same history of fast bowling to boast about, in every era they have produced multiple pacers who have the ability to skillfully move the ball. They are/were not average bowlers either. Recently we have seen Mohammad Siraj who has shown he can move the ball both ways with pace which is something India has definitely lacked. But then India has had the likes of Bhvneshwar Kumar, Praveen Kumar, Zaheer Khan, Irfan Pathan, and recently, Arshdeep Singh, who despite not being the quickest bowlers, had wristy skills. Jasprit Bumrah has also started to swing the ball after pitching his length up post-injury. Hardik Pandya has also shown to be able to move the ball when the conditions are right.

These are just a handful off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. I did not follow cricket before 2009 as I was young but judging off this crop of bowlers, I'm sure India had even more prior to then. I hear Kapil Dev could swing the ball both ways as well.

Is there any other country that has produced as many decent to good bowlers who could swing the ball as India has in the last decade and a half? This question and my assessment are not posed to simply praise India but out of genuine curiosity as of well. And also to highlight that India goes under the radar when it comes to producing skillful bowlers due to the batting talent they produce plus the whole fast bowling-paradise imagery around Pakistan often overshadows its neighbours.

india prior to 1992 produced slow swing bowlers . 125-130 was max pace . Think manoj prabhakar as the ultimate example . I would say that he was after kapil the best swing bowler we have produced and after kapil , the best all rounder bowler - batsman . Not many people have seen him bat but he was our test opener and a v v gritty player .

Things improved once v prasad came in 1995 . Tall , swing bowler ably supported srinath . Then came mohanty , Nehra , Agarkar , Sreesanth - they all won us matches , made us competitive abroad . But nobody was a zaheer .

Zaheer was the first superstar swing bowler with pace . He could make the ball talk . And since then , a fast bowling culture of decent swing bowlers in each state team has emerged . Look at domestics and you will see 130-135 k swing bowlers abound .

Since 2015 - we have swing bowlers like bumrah , siraj who are bowling swing at high pace . That’s the difference - those 5 clicks more give less time .

Praveen kumar was awesome but b kumar was better due to pace difference . Siraj is unplayable at 140 k sustained speeds .

We are not yet there but it’s fair to say we are now a decent fast bowling nation .

 

[TheSultan]

I think the problem is baby pace. Get some pace and then do the talk nah

 

[kron]

I think the problem is baby pace. Get some pace and then do the talk nah

They have pace but the issue is marketing. They don't hype their bowlers. They hype their overrated batsmen mostly.

They have a very good attack. Bumrah siraj Krishna shami etc. Quality bowlers.

Why it's not famous? Well their bowlers need to show ability to win a WTC final or a world event. They haven't won anything since 2011.

 

[vprasanna83]

lets be honest, who will fear a bowler who lives on a vegetarian diet?

Poor logic . Just look at some of the top athletes in the world who are vegetarian / vegan

 

[vprasanna83]

Swing bowlers dont get famous. Its always the pacy bowlers that end up bowling bouncers.

Pakistan got famous for its bowlers due to Sarfraz Nawaz, Imran Khan, Akram and Waqar. While initially Pakistan got famous for its pace, but when Akram and co started bolwing, they were labels of ball tempering as they were doing reverse swing. Those allegations added to the folktale of Pakistani bowlers.

Indian bowlers will only get famous when they actually bowl bouncers and hurt players, plus some bowling skill is attributed to them.

So you think a bowler like Glenn McGrath doesn’t get famous just because he doesn’t hit and hurt batsmen but just gets them out ?

 

[Major]

Shitty logic . Just look at some of the top athletes in the world who are vegetarian / vegan

thats not poor logic. If you watch your own bollywood movie dangal. The Phogat father had to feed his daughters with chicken so that they could get the require protein and be bale to wrestle. They were vegetarian but needed chicken for protein.

Lol veggie eating bowler bowling 145 kph, yeh ok loool

 

[Major]

So you think a bowler like Glenn McGrath doesn’t get famous just because he doesn’t hit and hurt batsmen but just gets them out ?

Read the thread title and OP again.

A country's popularity for a bowler doenst happen due to one bowler, or else Sri lanka would had been famous aswell becuase of Malinga.

Pakistan and Australia are famous for producing multiple bowlers that oppositions fear. Guys like Mcgrath and Asif only add to the folktale that already exists and strengthens the story further.

Khair, dont worry, I think your Ashok Dindas, Munaf Patels and Aishish Nehras have made Indian bowlers popular.

Popular as int trudlers.........

 

[kron]

thats not poor logic. If you watch your own bollywood movie dangal. The Phogat father had to feed his daughters with chicken so that they could get the require protein and be bale to wrestle. They were vegetarian but needed chicken for protein.

Lol veggie eating bowler bowling 145 kph, yeh ok loool

Who? And I agree about about your point around creating intimidating fast bowlers. Not someone who can hurt people, a bowler with ability to do just about anything with the ball Inclusive of bouncer, Yorker, swing. Someone who is unpredictable. They must also be able to pride themselves in the ability od their bowling. India doesn't really promote their bowlers well. It's always the batsmen that usually get the credit. Until they change their mentality and start promoting or selecting pace bowlers then they won't be ever seen as a bowling powerhouse regardless whether their attack performs or not. Their attack is good but not great. They need to win first.

 

[Kaptan]

thats not shitty logic. If you watch your own bollywood movie dangal. The Phogat father had to feed his daughters with chicken so that they could get the require protein and be bale to wrestle. They were vegetarian but needed chicken for protein.

Lol veggie eating bowler bowling 145 kph, yeh ok loool

Why isn't beef-eating Pakistanis winning medals in wrestling? 9/10 times then are beaten pretty badly by Indian wrestlers who are primarily vegetarians or consume way less meat than their Pakistani counterparts? And since when did you start watching Bollywood movies? Isn't it the worst form of entertainment lol?

 

[TheSultan]

They have pace but the issue is marketing. They don't hype their bowlers. They hype their overrated batsmen mostly.

They have a very good attack. Bumrah siraj Krishna shami etc. Quality bowlers.

Why it's not famous? Well their bowlers need to show ability to win a WTC final or a world event. They haven't won anything since 2011.

The other problem is - and I think our pak fans are a bit guilty of this too recently - every international team has swing bowlers. Just because your team is producing swing bowlers, you have a right to be happy with it, but nearly every team has bowlers who can swing it so don’t think your bowlers are special. There’s a reason why they’re playing international cricket.

Which fast bowlers have made headlines recently? Has it even been just due to swing? No. And you got to be able to hit the stumps too. A caught behind doesn’t have the same effect.

There’s always other factors that creates a marketing angle.

Mark Wood has made headline - express pace

Before that Archer did for a game or two - express pace

Shaheen made headlines when he was splattering stumps in the t20 World Cup in 2021. That’s another thing. Do it on the big stage.

Anderson has been swinging it both ways for years, the only time he got the headlines was because he started breaking wicket records due to his incredible longevity.

Whatever anyone thinks or waxes lyrical about line and length blah blah, it’s always the express bowlers that have, and will continue to get headlines.

When india produces one of those that maintains their pace over a few years then they can start talking.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

One good bowloer India got but certainly they never values Bhuvneshwar Kumar for his skills as a swing bowler.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Last 5 years Indian pace unit was the best across the formats despite not having opportunity to play much in helpful conditions.

In 20 - Australia's Avge 23.06 strike rate is 17.0, ER 8.12 India's avge 23.96 17.6, ER 8.14 Combination of Average/ER/SR India and Australia virtually the same. They have been the best in the last 5 yeasr.
In ODI - India acverages 28.73 top of the table combination of Avge/ER/SR, India has the best strike rate of 31.
Ind Tests - India averages 24.73 top of the table followed by SA 25.09 , INdia's SR was 48.7. SA SR was 44.6 All the others have a strike rate over 50.

Unless someone lives in lala land they would know this already.

Test match exposes the 4 over specialists big time.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Even India's 5th choice pacer Thakur has induced more errors from batsmen

 

[kron]

Last 5 years Indian pace unit was the best across the formats despite not having opportunity to play much in helpful conditions.

In 20 - Australia's Avge 23.06 strike rate is 17.0, ER 8.12 India's avge 23.96 17.6, ER 8.14 Combination of Average/ER/SR India and Australia virtually the same. They have been the best in the last 5 yeasr.
In ODI - India acverages 28.73 top of the table combination of Avge/ER/SR, India has the best strike rate of 31.
Ind Tests - India averages 24.73 top of the table followed by SA 25.09 , INdia's SR was 48.7. SA SR was 44.6 All the others have a strike rate over 50.

Unless someone lives in lala land they would know this already.

Test match exposes the 4 over specialists big time.

But at the end of the day they dint win the WTC did they? If they won due to the bowlers in a final perhaps people would rate them as the best.

 

[jnaveen1980]

But at the end of the day they dint win the WTC did they? If they won due to the bowlers in a final perhaps people would rate them as the best.

Indian batting has been poor for the last 3 or 4 years. On a flat wicket Indians fell to loose shots. Getting to final itself is a long process. Second of all Indians played WTC right after IPL on both occasion. India beat Australia 4 test series in a row Home and Away twice each. So one off Test in neutral conditions don't tell how good they are. How many teams have won a test series against Australia even at home?

 

[kron]

Indian batting has been poor for the last 3 or 4 years. On a flat wicket Indians fell to loose shots. Getting to final itself is a long process. Second of all Indians played WTC right after IPL on both occasion. India beat Australia 4 test series in a row Home and Away twice each. So one off Test in neutral conditions don't tell how good they are. How many teams have won a test series against Australia even at home?

True. It's a team game.
Batting inability can affect bowlers inadvertently.
Bumrah dint play the final but he did the play the previous time vs nz. They dint skittle them out in the second innings but it could be partly due to batting failure.

 

[pratiktc]

Culture has evolved as a function of the actors.
Back in 60s-early 80s when print and radio ads were main media, in general most Indian cricketers were not very glamorous in marketing sense. Farokh Engineer got brylcreem ads. Of the rest, ppl like Gavaskar and Kapil Dev because of their fame and despite their average physical appeal got suitings and FMCG ads.

Of the rest of Indian cricketers several batters like Vishwanath, spin quartet were simply unmarketable personalities except in few regional ads.

In late 80s and 90s when TV ads took off, personalities like Shastri initially and later Tendulkar dominated the scene totally. Bowlers of 90s were mainly South Indian (Kumble, Srinath, Prasad etc.) who were nowhere near world's best level on skill level and personality wise also unmarketable on pan India scale.

Tendulkar was an icon from 90s to 2000s and in his shadow the only other few cricketers that got marketed were Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag.
Zaheer/Nehra were marketable personalities but were injured too often and by late 2000s, Dhoni had already arrived to take all the adspace.

Dhoni, Yuvraj, Kohli, Rohit became the inheritors of Tendulkar legacy with liberal adding of Bollywood romantic dalliances which kept them more in forefront.

The rise of good swing (PK, Bhuvi, Chahar) and pace bowlers (Shami, Bumrah, Siraj, Ishant, Yadav) has been over last decade. Of all these personalities only Bumrah has been through his performance and command of English/Punjabi been able to command national level adspace.

Ishant, Shami, BK, Yadav aren't really marketable that much.

Despite this being Instagram/tiktok age where players SM team can craft his/her personality; it is the likes of Gill and Iyer who have come to forefront ahead of bowlers

 

[jnaveen1980]

At the end of the day i don't care if Indian bowling is not hyped compared to other bowlers. But compared to Indian batsmen they don't get enough credit.

 

[hafizexpress]

Culture has evolved as a function of the actors.
Back in 60s-early 80s when print and radio ads were main media, in general most Indian cricketers were not very glamorous in marketing sense. Farokh Engineer got brylcreem ads. Of the rest, ppl like Gavaskar and Kapil Dev because of their fame and despite their average physical appeal got suitings and FMCG ads.

Of the rest of Indian cricketers several batters like Vishwanath, spin quartet were simply unmarketable personalities except in few regional ads.

In late 80s and 90s when TV ads took off, personalities like Shastri initially and later Tendulkar dominated the scene totally. Bowlers of 90s were mainly South Indian (Kumble, Srinath, Prasad etc.) who were nowhere near world's best level on skill level and personality wise also unmarketable on pan India scale.

Tendulkar was an icon from 90s to 2000s and in his shadow the only other few cricketers that got marketed were Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag.
Zaheer/Nehra were marketable personalities but were injured too often and by late 2000s, Dhoni had already arrived to take all the adspace.

Dhoni, Yuvraj, Kohli, Rohit became the inheritors of Tendulkar legacy with liberal adding of Bollywood romantic dalliances which kept them more in forefront.

The rise of good swing (PK, Bhuvi, Chahar) and pace bowlers (Shami, Bumrah, Siraj, Ishant, Yadav) has been over last decade. Of all these personalities only Bumrah has been through his performance and command of English/Punjabi been able to command national level adspace.

Ishant, Shami, BK, Yadav aren't really marketable that much.

Despite this being Instagram/tiktok age where players SM team can craft his/her personality; it is the likes of Gill and Iyer who have come to forefront ahead of bowlers

Great assessment

 

[kron]

Culture has evolved as a function of the actors.
Back in 60s-early 80s when print and radio ads were main media, in general most Indian cricketers were not very glamorous in marketing sense. Farokh Engineer got brylcreem ads. Of the rest, ppl like Gavaskar and Kapil Dev because of their fame and despite their average physical appeal got suitings and FMCG ads.

Of the rest of Indian cricketers several batters like Vishwanath, spin quartet were simply unmarketable personalities except in few regional ads.

In late 80s and 90s when TV ads took off, personalities like Shastri initially and later Tendulkar dominated the scene totally. Bowlers of 90s were mainly South Indian (Kumble, Srinath, Prasad etc.) who were nowhere near world's best level on skill level and personality wise also unmarketable on pan India scale.

Tendulkar was an icon from 90s to 2000s and in his shadow the only other few cricketers that got marketed were Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag.
Zaheer/Nehra were marketable personalities but were injured too often and by late 2000s, Dhoni had already arrived to take all the adspace.

Dhoni, Yuvraj, Kohli, Rohit became the inheritors of Tendulkar legacy with liberal adding of Bollywood romantic dalliances which kept them more in forefront.

The rise of good swing (PK, Bhuvi, Chahar) and pace bowlers (Shami, Bumrah, Siraj, Ishant, Yadav) has been over last decade. Of all these personalities only Bumrah has been through his performance and command of English/Punjabi been able to command national level adspace.

Ishant, Shami, BK, Yadav aren't really marketable that much.

Despite this being Instagram/tiktok age where players SM team can craft his/her personality; it is the likes of Gill and Iyer who have come to forefront ahead of bowlers

Excellent post. Well Said. India should promote their quality pace attack and highlight their prowess. Their batsmen are vastly overrated abd take unfair credit away from the bowlers.

 

[Swashbuckler]

thats not poor logic. If you watch your own bollywood movie dangal. The Phogat father had to feed his daughters with chicken so that they could get the require protein and be bale to wrestle. They were vegetarian but needed chicken for protein.

Lol veggie eating bowler bowling 145 kph, yeh ok loool

In real life the Phogats are vegetarians. They took artistic liberty in that movie. All the Haryanvi Olympic medalists are vegetarian. There are enough vegetarian sources for protein, even for elite athletes.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Read the thread title and OP again.

A country's popularity for a bowler doenst happen due to one bowler, or else Sri lanka would had been famous aswell becuase of Malinga.

Pakistan and Australia are famous for producing multiple bowlers that oppositions fear. Guys like Mcgrath and Asif only add to the folktale that already exists and strengthens the story further.

Khair, dont worry, I think your Ashok Dindas, Munaf Patels and Aishish Nehras have made Indian bowlers popular.

Popular as int trudlers.........

Nehra and Munaf did have excellent figures while winning the World Cup Semifinal in 2011 though.

 

[MenInG]

I don't have a problem exploring the dietary angle but do not disrespect a culture or people and stay on cricket.

 

[jeetu]

India is mostly known for fast bowler who could swing bowl but not with much pace. However from 90's onwards that has been changing.

Swing Bowlers won india 83 WC. Bowlers like Madal Lal , Roger Binny were very effective in English condition. Even someone like Amarnath who was closer to spinners pace got wickets. They again decimated England in 85/86 on tour. Only 2 other pacers made some mark before 83. Ghavri being left hander could chip in with wickets. Ramakkant Sardesai was mismanaged so much that he had to retire before 30. Even Solkar at times was effective though i doubt he was good exponent of swing bowling though he tormented the likes of Boycott. There are stories that Hanif Mohammed was troubled by Deasi.

Kapil pre injury was the perhaps first fast medium bowler who could could bowl effective bouncer. Srinnath was the first true quick bowler who was 145K+ bowler. After that there were quite a bit bowlers who had bowled over 140+ speed at various parts of their career. Zaheer Khan didn't swing much during majority of his career , it was very apparent when he bowled in tandem with Irfan Pathan , who was one of the best exponent of inswinger. After his county stint Zaheer dropped some pace but perfected swing and also reverse swing , that made him every effective during last phase of his career. There was a time when bowler clocking 140+ regularly in a spell made news in India example being Nehra vs England in WC. IPL has played a major role in giving attention to upcoming pace bowlers. So the days of Gavaskar opening Indian bowling is long gone.

 

[jeetu]

Swing bowlers dont get famous. Its always the pacy bowlers that end up bowling bouncers.

Pakistan got famous for its bowlers due to Sarfraz Nawaz, Imran Khan, Akram and Waqar. While initially Pakistan got famous for its pace, but when Akram and co started bolwing, they were labels of ball tempering as they were doing reverse swing. Those allegations added to the folktale of Pakistani bowlers.

Indian bowlers will only get famous when they actually bowl bouncers and hurt players, plus some bowling skill is attributed to them.

You missed out on the greatest pak fast bowler pre Imran in Fazal Mehmood. He single handidly made Pakistan competitive team in 50's. Its a shame that when its comes to pace bowling he is barely mentioned now. After his retirement pakistan struggled to win outside home for a long time. However he was not known for his pace. Same goes with Sarfraz Nawaz. you can check the difference in pace between Sarfraz and Imran during 1979 speed bowling.
Hurting player isn't the only creteria of making bowler famous. Wasim and Imran didn't are not known for hurting Batsman. Waqar and Akhtar did hurt batman with pace. Getting tons of wickets at low average remains the best cafeteria of becoming famous.

 

[Major]

Nehra and Munaf did have excellent figures while winning the World Cup Semifinal in 2011 though.

Could you for once stop getting offended or defensive when india is not praised?

The thread is why Indians bowling reputation not build, and bowling reputation gets build with developing fast pacers over the years and by being consisstent in terms of pace, bouncers, and movement.

 

[owenhcricket]

How many of them with sizeable careers average less than 25 which is usually the cut off for great/very good fast bowlers? And then compare that to Pak, Australia, SA...

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Could you for once stop getting offended or defensive when india is not praised?

The thread is why Indians bowling reputation not build, and bowling reputation gets build with developing fast pacers over the years and by being consisstent in terms of pace, bouncers, and movement.

Oh not offended at all. They were average bowlers but stood up in a knockout match and made the likes of look worse than a tailender.

Also more celebrated bowlers like took an absolute pounding in that WC knockout in 1996.

 

[Major]

You missed out on the greatest pak fast bowler pre Imran in Fazal Mehmood. He single handidly made Pakistan competitive team in 50's. Its a shame that when its comes to pace bowling he is barely mentioned now. After his retirement pakistan struggled to win outside home for a long time. However he was not known for his pace. Same goes with Sarfraz Nawaz. you can check the difference in pace between Sarfraz and Imran during 1979 speed bowling.
Hurting player isn't the only creteria of making bowler famous. Wasim and Imran didn't are not known for hurting Batsman. Waqar and Akhtar did hurt batman with pace. Getting tons of wickets at low average remains the best cafeteria of becoming famous.

You are still not getting the point.

There were many bowlers produced by pakistan. Each bowler is part of the folktale. Fazal mehmood came and sarfraz came, pakistan reputation was building but had not bee built. They only got to he part of the tale when the likes of Imran, wasim and Waqar emerged. Infact, it didnt stop there aswell.

When either one of pacers got ibjured, pakistan would bring a guy from the bench who would also be fast. So aqib came, ata ur rehman came, sami came, mohammad zahid came.

Event now, with naseem injured, if we bring in shahnawaz dahani or arshad iqbal, the commentators would be laughing that these guys just had abbowler injured and out and yet thry have 2 more pacers that can bowl 140+

Infact, if pakistan even players an uncapped bowler called zaman zamir from isb united, even that guy can go 140+

 

[vprasanna83]

thats not poor logic. If you watch your own bollywood movie dangal. The Phogat father had to feed his daughters with chicken so that they could get the require protein and be bale to wrestle. They were vegetarian but needed chicken for protein.

Lol veggie eating bowler bowling 145 kph, yeh ok loool

Ever heard of one athlete named Mr Novak Djokovic ?

 

[vprasanna83]

Jason Gillespie and Peter Siddle are vegetarians too

 

[TheSultan]

Ever heard of one athlete named Mr Novak Djokovic ?

He’s a great athlete but he wouldn’t be able to bowl 145k+ consistently and you have the perfect example in tennis itself that Novak is not known as one of the faster servers. He’s nowhere near the fastest servers.

Doesn’t mean he’s not a great player, but we’re not talking about that

 

[TheSultan]

Jason Gillespie and Peter Siddle are vegetarians too

Neither bowled consistently over 90mph/145k consistently.

The evidence is getting stronger!

 

[vprasanna83]

He’s a great athlete but he wouldn’t be able to bowl 145k+ consistently and you have the perfect example in tennis itself that Novak is not known as one of the faster servers. He’s nowhere near the fastest servers.

Doesn’t mean he’s not a great player, but we’re not talking about that

He has incomparable stores of energy , stamina and power . As games head deeper and deeper , he finds more power reserves than his opponents . Where does all that come from ?

 

[vprasanna83]

Neither bowled consistently over 90mph/145k consistently.

The evidence is getting stronger!

Gillespie had an injury mid career returning from which he had to tone down his speed . But till then he consistently clocked between 140-150 Kph . Anyone who watch cricket in the 90s keenly remembers Jason Gillespie as a genuine quick .

But then again , most Indians are not vegetarian in any case . So what is this line of argument anyways ?

 

[TheSultan]

He has incomparable stores of energy , stamina and power . As games head deeper and deeper , he finds more power reserves than his opponents . Where does all that come from ?

That’s great, but that’s not the discussion. Keep on point

 

[Major]

Oh not offended at all. They were average bowlers but stood up in a knockout match and made the likes of look worse than a tailender.

Also more celebrated bowlers like took an absolute pounding in that WC knockout in 1996.

so you are just here to troll and took offence when India was not praised...

Its about popularity interms of producing bowlers.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Jason Gillespie and Peter Siddle are vegetarians too

Hardik Pandya turned full vegetarians few years back. Bumrah eats meat. I am not sure where anyone gets the idea everyone in India are vegetarians lol

 

[jnaveen1980]

2019 world cup best pace unit was India.

 

[vprasanna83]

Well there is no hiding the fact that India has not been known to produce genuine quicks over the years . There maybe more than one reasons for this of which the most important must be the batting culture the prevails here . Every Indian kid starts playing cricket mainly wanting to become a great batsman like Tendulkar or Kohli .

However over the last 20 years things started to change . Captains like Ganguly and Kohli are huge fans of pace bowling and have encouraged it . This is shown by our current fast bowling lineup , which is one of the best in the world though we still don’t have a Brett Lee or Shoaib Akhtar .

With better facilities and the encouragement given to quicks these days , it would only be a matter of time before India finds enough express pacers . Other reasons like diet are superfluous, as most Indians are non vegetarians anyways

 

[vprasanna83]

That’s great, but that’s not the discussion. Keep on point

It’s on the point . Why is serve the only thing that matters ? What about the power of his groundstrokes ? Several clay courters who are burly don’t have strong serves .

Djokovics game is extremely physical and not a touch game by any stretch of the imagination

 

[Major]

2019 world cup best pace unit was India.

i think you are still not understanding the discussion.

The discussion is why Indian bolwing is not more popular. OP accepted that they have swing bowlers but why hasn't been Indian been referred with Australia and Pakistan when dicussing pacers.

I am sure you can pull out a stat where India is made to look good, that is not being discussed, yet you are stuck there.

No one is even saying Indian bowling is bad, the popularity aspect is being discussed which you seem to not understand (due to nationalism).

 

[jnaveen1980]

Well there is no hiding the fact that India has not been known to produce genuine quicks over the years . There maybe more than one reasons for this of which the most important must be the batting culture the prevails here . Every Indian kid starts playing cricket mainly wanting to become a great batsman like Tendulkar or Kohli .

However over the last 20 years things started to change . Captains like Ganguly and Kohli are huge fans of pace bowling and have encouraged it . This is shown by our current fast bowling lineup , which is one of the best in the world though we still don’t have a Brett Lee or Shoaib Akhtar .

With better facilities and the encouragement given to quicks these days , it would only be a matter of time before India finds enough express pacers . Other reasons like diet are superfluous, as most Indians are non vegetarians anyways

i think you are still not understanding the discussion.

The discussion is why Indian bolwing is not more popular. OP accepted that they have swing bowlers but why hasn't been Indian been referred with Australia and Pakistan when dicussing pacers.

I am sure you can pull out a stat where India is made to look good, that is not being discussed, yet you are stuck there.

No one is even saying Indian bowling is bad, the popularity aspect is being discussed which you seem to not understand (due to nationalism).

I don't think oz bowlers are hyped as much as Pakistan bowlers. Even the ones hyped are not express in true sense. Hazlewood Is no express. Same way for NZ boult is no express. He is the only one hyped. You brought out a non-existent theory that bowlersnhave to hit batsmen. Almost all the hyped SENA bowlers are wicket takers Not express bowlers. Haris was hyped in Tests even before he made debut.

 

[heddie19]

Indian batting has been poor for the last 3 or 4 years. On a flat wicket Indians fell to loose shots. Getting to final itself is a long process. Second of all Indians played WTC right after IPL on both occasion. India beat Australia 4 test series in a row Home and Away twice each. So one off Test in neutral conditions don't tell how good they are. How many teams have won a test series against Australia even at home?

It matters more than 4 series now. You'd have the same argument that team XYZ wins all the bilaterals but couldn't win a WC due to on off day etc. That is not how titles are won.

 

[jeetu]

You are still not getting the point.

There were many bowlers produced by pakistan. Each bowler is part of the folktale. Fazal mehmood came and sarfraz came, pakistan reputation was building but had not bee built. They only got to he part of the tale when the likes of Imran, wasim and Waqar emerged. Infact, it didnt stop there aswell.

When either one of pacers got ibjured, pakistan would bring a guy from the bench who would also be fast. So aqib came, ata ur rehman came, sami came, mohammad zahid came.

Event now, with naseem injured, if we bring in shahnawaz dahani or arshad iqbal, the commentators would be laughing that these guys just had abbowler injured and out and yet thry have 2 more pacers that can bowl 140+

Infact, if pakistan even players an uncapped bowler called zaman zamir from isb united, even that guy can go 140+

You have to to clarify your point then, i can't seem to pinpoint it. My reponse was to "Indian bowlers will only get famous when they actually bowl bouncers and hurt players, plus some bowling skill is attributed to them."
For a good poster i am amazed that you are getting facts wrong like claiming Aqib Javed to be fast unless your are refering to some other Aqib. But he was good support bowler to W's. Pakistan has built reputation of producing quick bowlers from Imran onwards. Many of whom were 140+. I don't see that stopping ever. Regarding your point regarding being famous Sami is more on the infamous side and a good example that having great pace doesn't make one a good bowler.
Nowadays producing 140+ bowler is not a rarity. T20 leagues plays a big role in that. But bowlers who can clock 150+ are rare breed who can get famous based on it. Bowlers clocking 155+ are even rarer. Among current regular Pakistan's bowler SSA may touch 150 on rare occasion , Nassem Shah does not seem to be there yet but he is getting very close however unlike most he can be consistently quick. Rauf is fastest of lot being genuine 150+ bowler.

 

[Major]

You have to to clarify your point then, i can't seem to pinpoint it. My reponse was to "Indian bowlers will only get famous when they actually bowl bouncers and hurt players, plus some bowling skill is attributed to them."
For a good poster i am amazed that you are getting facts wrong like claiming Aqib Javed to be fast unless your are refering to some other Aqib. But he was good support bowler to W's. Pakistan has built reputation of producing quick bowlers from Imran onwards. Many of whom were 140+. I don't see that stopping ever. Regarding your point regarding being famous Sami is more on the infamous side and a good example that having great pace doesn't make one a good bowler.
Nowadays producing 140+ bowler is not a rarity. T20 leagues plays a big role in that. But bowlers who can clock 150+ are rare breed who can get famous based on it. Bowlers clocking 155+ are even rarer. Among current regular Pakistan's bowler SSA may touch 150 on rare occasion , Nassem Shah does not seem to be there yet but he is getting very close however unlike most he can be consistently quick. Rauf is fastest of lot being genuine 150+ bowler.

Bro you are still not getting it.

You think i am talking about individual bowlers. Im talking about all bowlers.

What am saying is, after waqar and waseem every bowler that came and fast or skilfull, the pakistani pace reputation build on that.

You are still stuck discussing individual bowlers, when i am discussing from aggregate point of view. Sami was wayward, but when sami was produced, he was just another pacer we had unearthern.

Its like discussing missiles, when you look at the number of missiles you say oh look this country has alot of fast and dangerous missiles. That adds to the countrys reputation..

If you get the point than continue if you still dont get it, there is no purpose of further discussion.


Heck, when pakistan released sohail tangir a 130kph bowler he also became part of the pakistan pace bowling repo that another tall pacer been produced.

And btw naseem is faster than shaheen lol

 

[jnaveen1980]

It matters more than 4 series now. You'd have the same argument that team XYZ wins all the bilaterals but couldn't win a WC due to on off day etc. That is not how titles are won.

Didn't know fast bowlers have to make runs as well

 

[jnaveen1980]

Swing is another attribute for these guys. Not the only attribute. Anyway ithe topic s about hype. India has the largest cricketing fan base in the world. Them hyping a fast bowler is enough. They dont need external hypre. But they don't do that. Not because of the weird theories I see here. Also Indian selectors work differently. Indian selection looks at results mostly. They don't select guys just for pace. Umran was given a run to be fair. But he was erratic. Kicked out. He still can come back. But with loss of motivation to bowl fast he may stick to IPL. Lot of dynamics at play. There is no way Brett Lee or any other fast bowler would have been hyped as much if they had played for India.

 

[TheSultan]

I think our Indian friends are getting a bit too touchy about this. We are not talking about the merits of their bowlers. The question is about why are they not known or famous for it.

No amount of stats of their careers can prove this. The question is why?

When we think great bowling, why don’t we think about the Indian bowling attack. The argument is not the whether they are a great attack or not (topic for another thread), it’s why is there not this perception.

My conclusion is - very capable bowlers, but they just don’t capture the imagination.

Some bowlers capture imagination because is express pace

Some by their character

Some by their flamboyance

Some by their innovation.

I think it’s just that they are quite boring - doesn’t mean they’re not good - but they’re quite boring

 

[jeetu]

Bro you are still not getting it.

You think i am talking about individual bowlers. Im talking about all bowlers.

What am saying is, after waqar and waseem every bowler that came and fast or skilfull, the pakistani pace reputation build on that.

You are still stuck discussing individual bowlers, when i am discussing from aggregate point of view. Sami was wayward, but when sami was produced, he was just another pacer we had unearthern.

Its like discussing missiles, when you look at the number of missiles you say oh look this country has alot of fast and dangerous missiles. That adds to the countrys reputation..

If you get the point than continue if you still dont get it, there is no purpose of further discussion.


Heck, when pakistan released sohail tangir a 130kph bowler he also became part of the pakistan pace bowling repo that another tall pacer been produced.

And btw naseem is faster than shaheen lol

If you are naming individual bowlers then then will be called out if there is inaccuracy by you regarding them. I think you should take it as positive. Regarding the rep , nobody really held the torch after W's retired 20 years back. All the pacers that followed had short test careers so that's also that reputation that is being left behind now. No one expects them to last long. However i have a feeling that SSA will become a 300+ test wicket taker. Bowlers like Sohail Tanvir was only known for is wrong foot bowling action. He had some success in T20's however i can't recall anything of note by him in other formats.

 

[Major]

If you are naming individual bowlers then then will be called out if there is inaccuracy by you regarding them. I think you should take it as positive. Regarding the rep , nobody really held the torch after W's retired 20 years back. All the pacers that followed had short test careers so that's also that reputation that is being left behind now. No one expects them to last long. However i have a feeling that SSA will become a 300+ test wicket taker. Bowlers like Sohail Tanvir was only known for is wrong foot bowling action. He had some success in T20's however i can't recall anything of note by him in other formats.

you are not even getting the point. forget it.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think our Indian friends are getting a bit too touchy about this. We are not talking about the merits of their bowlers. The question is about why are they not known or famous for it.

No amount of stats of their careers can prove this. The question is why?

When we think great bowling, why don’t we think about the Indian bowling attack. The argument is not the whether they are a great attack or not (topic for another thread), it’s why is there not this perception.

My conclusion is - very capable bowlers, but they just don’t capture the imagination.

Some bowlers capture imagination because is express pace

Some by their character

Some by their flamboyance

Some by their innovation.

I think it’s just that they are quite boring - doesn’t mean they’re not good - but they’re quite boring

Based on yor thoughts Only pak bowlers I was amazed at was.Akram and Akhatar. Wahab Riaz bowled at 150 k but mostly looked like a pie chucker. Ambrose is one guy I appreciate a lot. Always loved to watch him. There were times he only bowled at 128kph in Tests. For me bowlers with good run ups like Donald, Akhtar, Steyn get an extra hype. They had results to show as well. I don't get.wowed by fast pie checkers like mohammad Sami no matternhow fast they bowl. . Johnson action looks real ugly. But I started liking him after his 37 wicket series. Starc is also not a great bowler to watch. But Rabada has a nice and smooth run up. Not that I am his fan. Nortje is ugly to watch as well. Among modern bowlers Cummins is okayish. Mark wood is good to watch.

 

[TheSultan]

Based on yor thoughts Only pak bowlers I was amazed at was.Akram and Akhatar. Wahab Riaz bowled at 150 k but mostly looked like a pie chucker. Ambrose is one guy I appreciate a lot. Always loved to watch him. There were times he only bowled at 128kph in Tests. For me bowlers with good run ups like Donald, Akhtar, Steyn get an extra hype. They had results to show as well. I don't get.wowed by fast pie checkers like mohammad Sami no matternhow fast they bowl. . Johnson action looks real ugly. But I started liking him after his 37 wicket series. Starc is also not a great bowler to watch. But Rabada has a nice and smooth run up. Not that I am his fan. Nortje is ugly to watch as well. Among modern bowlers Cummins is okayish. Mark wood is good to watch.

I actually agree with your assessment there of every player.

 

[hassan918]

Over the years, they had plenty of swing bowlers but the problem is that they usually made tracks in Test Cricket that don't support seam bowlers. They made tracks to suit their spinners and most of the bowling is done by the spinners. We recently saw how Mohammed Siraj and Jasprit Bumrah swung the ball in the Asia Cup. So, they almost always have swing bowlers but their spinners tend to take most of the headlines in the bowling department.

 

[Itachi]

Bro you are still not getting it.

You think i am talking about individual bowlers. Im talking about all bowlers.

What am saying is, after waqar and waseem every bowler that came and fast or skilfull, the pakistani pace reputation build on that.

You are still stuck discussing individual bowlers, when i am discussing from aggregate point of view. Sami was wayward, but when sami was produced, he was just another pacer we had unearthern.

Its like discussing missiles, when you look at the number of missiles you say oh look this country has alot of fast and dangerous missiles. That adds to the countrys reputation..

If you get the point than continue if you still dont get it, there is no purpose of further discussion.


Heck, when pakistan released sohail tangir a 130kph bowler he also became part of the pakistan pace bowling repo that another tall pacer been produced.

And btw naseem is faster than shaheen lol

The answer to the question in thread is actually a very simple one.

It's all about USP (Unique seling point). Pakistan's USP is bowling. That of India is batting. Generally you do not have more than 1 USP because otherwise both (or more) will lose in racing for the same. In order to drive the momentum, you need that USP and you choose whatever is more impactful in front of you.

Later on, even if those doesn't hold true, you generally don't change the USP because the trust that was built upon won't be there any more. Hence even though Pakistan's bowling has weaken drastically over the course of time, the narration remained the same. And this projection determines the generalised perspective of the subject.

 

[hafizexpress]

How many of them with sizeable careers average less than 25 which is usually the cut off for great/very good fast bowlers? And then compare that to Pak, Australia, SA...

I'm not saying that they are the greatest bowlers. But India has shown to consistently produce fast-bowlers with the skill of swing but it's not something that's highlighted. Regardless of how good they are, and some of them have been really good, but it's never really talked about

 

[kron]

Well there is no hiding the fact that India has not been known to produce genuine quicks over the years . There maybe more than one reasons for this of which the most important must be the batting culture the prevails here . Every Indian kid starts playing cricket mainly wanting to become a great batsman like Tendulkar or Kohli .

However over the last 20 years things started to change . Captains like Ganguly and Kohli are huge fans of pace bowling and have encouraged it . This is shown by our current fast bowling lineup , which is one of the best in the world though we still don’t have a Brett Lee or Shoaib Akhtar .

With better facilities and the encouragement given to quicks these days , it would only be a matter of time before India finds enough express pacers . Other reasons like diet are superfluous, as most Indians are non vegetarians anyways

You need someone like umran who was fast to explode in the world stage. Need a great 145+ pacer who can average below 27 atleast. Once it happens, indian pacers will get due credit because most fast bowling nations have had atleast one or more genuine quicks who could bowl 145 plus consistently.

India's bowling attack is world class but they still don't have the express speedster. No 145 plus bowler.

SA have nortje
Aus used to have a express starc. Nowadays he can still crank it to 145 plus consistently.

Pakistan have naseem who is 145 plus.

Also Indian bowlers at the end of their careers never averaged below 25. Ever in odi or tests. Only recently has bumrah achieved that feat in all formats and shami in odis. Siraj too. All happened recently. I believe prasidh as well.

Their careers are not over yet. If they can average under 25 at the end of their careers then indian attacks will start getting the respect they deserve.

 

[kron]

Based on yor thoughts Only pak bowlers I was amazed at was.Akram and Akhatar. Wahab Riaz bowled at 150 k but mostly looked like a pie chucker. Ambrose is one guy I appreciate a lot. Always loved to watch him. There were times he only bowled at 128kph in Tests. For me bowlers with good run ups like Donald, Akhtar, Steyn get an extra hype. They had results to show as well. I don't get.wowed by fast pie checkers like mohammad Sami no matternhow fast they bowl. . Johnson action looks real ugly. But I started liking him after his 37 wicket series. Starc is also not a great bowler to watch. But Rabada has a nice and smooth run up. Not that I am his fan. Nortje is ugly to watch as well. Among modern bowlers Cummins is okayish. Mark wood is good to watch.

Give me a Cummins type bowler over Johnson or wood anyday.

 

[kron]

I think our Indian friends are getting a bit too touchy about this. We are not talking about the merits of their bowlers. The question is about why are they not known or famous for it.

No amount of stats of their careers can prove this. The question is why?

When we think great bowling, why don’t we think about the Indian bowling attack. The argument is not the whether they are a great attack or not (topic for another thread), it’s why is there not this perception.

My conclusion is - very capable bowlers, but they just don’t capture the imagination.

Some bowlers capture imagination because is express pace

Some by their character

Some by their flamboyance

Some by their innovation.

I think it’s just that they are quite boring - doesn’t mean they’re not good - but they’re quite boring

And none average below 25 at the end of their career either. Yea they are all good now but the present bowlers are still actively playing. Have to wait and see how it holds up.

And no genuine express pacer.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

I'm not saying that they are the greatest bowlers. But India has shown to consistently produce fast-bowlers with the skill of swing but it's not something that's highlighted. Regardless of how good they are, and some of them have been really good, but it's never really talked about

It's quite uncommon for India to produce quality bowlers consistently but i would say Bumrah is highly effective and Shami is quite an average bowler. I think Arshdeep Singh could be a better alternative of shami.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistan also knows how to develop pacers and play with a pace-heavy balance.

Our pacers only develop when they are in and around the Indian team.

And the Indian team loves their Shardul's, Axar's, Sundar's, Jadeja's and Ashwin's - fraud allrounders basically a little too much to play the extra pacer.

India never play 3 genuine seamers in ODI cricket in any XI

They only picked 3 seamers in the squad for the World Cup in England last time.

Instead we kept a ridiculous number of wicket-keepers and not only picked one less bowler but also picked an extra specialist spinner .

Pakistan picked 5 genuine seamers - Shaheen, Aamir, Hasnain, Hasan and Wahab.

If you are only going to have only 3 seamers in a World Cup squad, there will be no incentive to develop pacers beyond Bumrah, Siraj and a Shami who is on his last legs . And since we don't play and develop the younger pacers , we can't compare and say whether the younger pacers are any better or not. So, we will keep going back to the tried and tested trio for every ICC tournament and it's a vicious cycle we can't get out of.



The likes of Prasidh , Kuldeep Sen will never get better playing the trash quality of domestic cricket.


If playing the extra pacer is even suggested, fans of this trash system of spin/medium paced fraud allrounders will suggest that seamers can't bat and that it's risky and it's better for depth of whatever nonsense.

This is not a comparison with Pakistan for quality of bowlers or whatever.

If the Indian team adopts a template and strategy to have 5 genuine seamers in a World Cup squad, 1 wrist spinner , 1 SLA allrounder and 1 seam allrounder, they will be forced to play that combination by trying out and developing a bigger pool of younger quicks in bilaterals and will have a better idea of who the best 5 really are come the World Cup.

 

[PakLFC]

Indian pace bowlers are a bit underrated at times. Having seen Bumrah many times he is a serious swing bowler who commands a place in any side. Shami is nothing special where as it is too early to judge Siraj just on one good performance. Has Ishant Sharma retired or what?. Indian bowling is mostly neglected by fans due to their great batting. By and large they have not produced that many great swing/pace bowlers in their history other then Kapil and now Bumrah. The likes of Srisanth, Nehra, Srinath, Zaheer, Rudra, Irfan and Munaf etc were average at best. It is only that having destroyed Sri Lanka in the Asia Cup final we are getting a bit carried away with their swing bowlers. Historically. India has produced far better spin bowlers then pace men.