Why is Kashmir such a hotly debated issue?

[Shoaib war]

I mean as far as indpak stand on kashmir is concerned,both don't want to solve.It appears as if both are throwing arguments just to delay it,one argument gives rise to another whereas in reality even a two year old can solve it for them.Peace is not the thing these guys are after, they use kashmir as trump card any way possible be it politics or anything else.Are kashmirs only people suffering here?

 

[street cricketer]

Like I've said before, there will never be a solution for the Kashmir issue but it will always simmer at the background with occasional turmoils due to vested interests. Not that I condone it, but I'm a practical guy and I just don't see a solution for it. It's not just about Kashmir, tomorrow if Punjab or Maharashtra decide to secede from India or KPK or Sindh decide to secede from Pakistan, it will be end up in the same situation. Ditto with the Xinjiang province of China.

We have three nuclear armed countries wedged in the same region and I see now way a state or a province getting seceded from any of the countries in the region. I mean, you saw how the tamil conflict got dealt with by a small non nuclear country like Sri Lanka. There is no way countries like India, China or Pakistan will come to a solution for partition without a foreign superpower interference.

 

[Madplayer]

Yes only kashmiris are suffering.

India's stand on kashmir has changed drastically in last few years.

From saying that that kashmir issue needs talks with Pakistan , now they are saying that there will be no talks on kashmir. This is clearly due to extremist hindu ideology which has seen a rise in past few years.

From delaying talks on the issue they have reached a point where they say there is no issue at all. while killing blindind maiming amd harrasing of the local kashmiri population and mass brain washing of indian people using censored media is seeing no end. An average Indian has been brainwashed ro such an extent where they believe that the opressed is the opressor.

 

[hussain123]

Yes only kashmiris are suffering.

India's stand on kashmir has changed drastically in last few years.

From saying that that kashmir issue needs talks with Pakistan , now they are saying that there will be no talks on kashmir. This is clearly due to extremist hindu ideology which has seen a rise in past few years.

From delaying talks on the issue they have reached a point where they say there is no issue at all. while killing blindind maiming amd harrasing of the local kashmiri population and mass brain washing of indian people using censored media is seeing no end. An average Indian has been brainwashed ro such an extent where they believe that the opressed is the opressor.

For me personally kashmiri leadership from sheikh to geelani are to be blamed for most the mess.india is treating Kashmiris exactly what an oppressor would do.but is the leadership doing any good to subside the repression??

 

[Madplayer]

For me personally kashmiri leadership from sheikh to geelani are to be blamed for most the mess.india is treating Kashmiris exactly what an oppressor would do.but is the leadership doing any good to subside the repression??

Lets not even talk about sheikh who helped enslave us but i Have to agree here. Problem is we haven't been able to expose the real face of india , which wears the mask of gandhi, effectively in front of the world.

To make things worse Pakistan's image in the world isnt something we can boast about so when they say something, nobody bats an eye. For Kashmir's case to move forward its quintessential that Pakistan improves its position and image internationally. On the other hand India, on the back of their immense purchasing power and improving economy have gotten in bed with a lot of powerful countries. They borrow technology from another opressor in israel to torture kashmiris.

These factors have caused dents to kashmir's cause. Otherwise kashmir is one of the rare cases in world today which is making a legitimate political demand backed by historical facts and where an opressor is trying to quell the movement with all its might.

 

[big_gamer007]

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION]

Seeing that India will never give up Kashmir would you support a move if the current LOC is maintained and agreed by both India and Pakistan in accordance to UN.. And whoever from Kashmir wants to come to Indian part of Kashmir can come and whoever wants to go to Pakistan part can go..

I know no one wants to leave the place where they have lived for 100s of years but maybe the government of the respective country can buy their property or private investors can do they have decent money relocating..

Would you agree with such a proposal?

 

[Madplayer]

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION]

Seeing that India will never give up Kashmir would you support a move if the current LOC is maintained and agreed by both India and Pakistan in accordance to UN.. And whoever from Kashmir wants to come to Indian part of Kashmir can come and whoever wants to go to Pakistan part can go..

I know no one wants to leave the place where they have lived for 100s of years but maybe the government of the respective country can buy their property or private investors can do they have decent money relocating..

Would you agree with such a proposal?

No personally i wont agree to such a proposal. What u are saying has huge socio-economic and socio- cultural implications. Just as an example, India has a larger part of kashmir under it and almost all of Kashmiri speaking population resides in the Indian administered Kashmir. Majority of People in azad kashmir dont speak kashmiri language. So what you are proposing is that the entire kashmiri speaking population should leave their homes and shift to Pakistani kashmir. That would be suicidal for us. We are fighting for identity and our birth rights, not just a piece of land. Not to mention Kashmiris have come too far and have sacrificed too much to just be content with such a lolipop.

But if a plebiscite takes place and this proposal is kept as an option and if the people vote for it in a majority, i would accept it gladly. The whole of Jammu kashmir and ladakh including Azad kashmir belongs only and only to the people living in these areas and they should be given the right to decide what should happen to them.

 

[hussain123]

Lets not even talk about sheikh who helped enslave us but i Have to agree here. Problem is we haven't been able to expose the real face of india , which wears the mask of gandhi, effectively in front of the world.

To make things worse Pakistan's image in the world isnt something we can boast about so when they say something, nobody bats an eye. For Kashmir's case to move forward its quintessential that Pakistan improves its position and image internationally. On the other hand India, on the back of their immense purchasing power and improving economy have gotten in bed with a lot of powerful countries. They borrow technology from another opressor in israel to torture kashmiris.

These factors have caused dents to kashmir's cause. Otherwise kashmir is one of the rare cases in world today which is making a legitimate political demand backed by historical facts and where an opressor is trying to quell the movement with all its might.

Sheikh abdullah made the mistake of siding with a country that had an almost had a history of thousand years rule of muslims and that had in it a zeal of correcting those historical wrongs that manifested in babri masjid demolition etc.he wasn't a traitor but an extremely naive and an arrogant shortsided leader who couldn't anticipate a future of kashmir with india beyond nehru.geelani problem is his fascination with pakistan that would lead Kashmiris to ruins.what kashmiris need now is a solution like Musharraf's 4 point formula or something close that would give some breather for a while and let unfolding geopolitical scenario decide a proper occasion for upping the ante on total freedom.there is no rat in a hells chance that 7 million unarmed civilians devoid of any resource can affirm themselves against a 1 billion strong mighty indian state who have every resource in the world at disposal from military to a committed propganda machinery to repress kashmiris.you need to survive to succeed.pakistan has done everything any country can do in terms of diplomatic,political or military support(as in 1965 war).the world knows the truth about Kashmir but at the same time every country national interests are supreme and no country worth its salt would jeopardise its relations with a potential emerging economic superpower on humantarian or moral grounds.so the onus everytime squarely falls on the Kashmiri leadership on how can they stead the ship.they need to move outta their universal victimhood and realize and make the common populace realize that a total freedom from india is next to impossible and take practical steps towards the resolution of kashmir.beating the un resolutions blah blah rhetoric isn't gonna lead anywhere.earlier this realization the better.

 

[big_gamer007]

No personally i wont agree to such a proposal. What u are saying has huge socio-economic and socio- cultural implications. Just as an example, India has a larger part of kashmir under it and almost all of Kashmiri speaking population resides in the Indian administered Kashmir. Majority of People in azad kashmir dont speak kashmiri language. So what you are proposing is that the entire kashmiri speaking population should leave their homes and shift to Pakistani kashmir. That would be suicidal for us. We are fighting for identity and our birth rights, not just a piece of land. Not to mention Kashmiris have come too far and have sacrificed too much to just be content with such a lolipop.

But if a plebiscite takes place and this proposal is kept as an option and if the people vote for it in a majority, i would accept it gladly. The whole of Jammu kashmir and ladakh including Azad kashmir belongs only and only to the people living in these areas and they should be given the right to decide what should happen to them.

Fair enough I understand what you are saying..

I have always been wondering can you tell me what exactly are you fighting for? You want a separate nation but why? Hypothetical situation IF Indian governance over the last 60+ years was very good and had transformed Kashmir into a developed state with modern health facilities, education, lots of jobs and of course lovely tourism would you still have wanted a separate nation??

I wanna understand how much is the governments failure to integrate and develop Kashmir into India is part of the failure..

 

[JaDed]

Edit:

No point arguing about it,India won't give it up,Kashmiris won't give it up and neither will Pakistan.

 

[JaDed]

Lets not even talk about sheikh who helped enslave us but i Have to agree here. Problem is we haven't been able to expose the real face of india , which wears the mask of gandhi, effectively in front of the world.

To make things worse Pakistan's image in the world isnt something we can boast about so when they say something, nobody bats an eye. For Kashmir's case to move forward its quintessential that Pakistan improves its position and image internationally. On the other hand India, on the back of their immense purchasing power and improving economy have gotten in bed with a lot of powerful countries. They borrow technology from another opressor in israel to torture kashmiris.

These factors have caused dents to kashmir's cause. Otherwise kashmir is one of the rare cases in world today which is making a legitimate political demand backed by historical facts and where an opressor is trying to quell the movement with all its might.

Tibet is there too,it was occupied as well,Kashmir is not rare imo,Palestenians,Tibetians are also in the same boat.
Its easily about economy and globalized world media connections.

 

[street cricketer]

Sheikh abdullah made the mistake of siding with a country that had an almost had a history of thousand years rule of muslims and that had in it a zeal of correcting those historical wrongs that manifested in babri masjid demolition etc.

Way to generalise a whole country.

 

[santos11]

Fair enough I understand what you are saying..

I have always been wondering can you tell me what exactly are you fighting for? You want a separate nation but why? Hypothetical situation IF Indian governance over the last 60+ years was very good and had transformed Kashmir into a developed state with modern health facilities, education, lots of jobs and of course lovely tourism would you still have wanted a separate nation??

I wanna understand how much is the governments failure to integrate and develop Kashmir into India is part of the failure..

The Kashmiris ( Muslims) see themselves as separate and do not consider themselves identifying as Indians.

Just materialistic offers like Jobs, Economy aren't enough to buy loyalty of everyone.

 

[troodon]

Kashmiris want to separate from India based on religion. Kind of like Partition again.

Kashmir would have never been an issue if Kashmiris were Hindu or Sikh or Buddhists.

Saying that they are fighting for Kashmiri identity is a joke. Is India trying to change their language or culture or trying to convert them back to Hinduism? The question is not about identity. It's about religion.

In India each state has a language, identity and culture. Kashmir will be another state with a different language and culture.

What separatists are trying to do is partition based on religion once again. This will never happen. That ship has sailed long ago.

India is a powerful country now with huge military. Economy wise also, it is doing well and improving every year. Nobody can bully India on Kashmir issue. The only way Kashmir can separate from India is if India collapses economically. Kind of like what happened to Soviet Union. This is not happening anytime soon. India will not fight any mindless wars to go bankrupt.

Kashmiris need a lot of luck. Until then they can keep agitating and waste their time.

 

[hussain123]

Way to generalise a whole country.

Bro,i didnt generalise anything,that is how i see events unfolding from 1947 and i might be totally wrong on that count too.apologies if you thought that way,was totally unintentional

 

[Madplayer]

Sheikh abdullah made the mistake of siding with a country that had an almost had a history of thousand years rule of muslims and that had in it a zeal of correcting those historical wrongs that manifested in babri masjid demolition etc.he wasn't a traitor but an extremely naive and an arrogant shortsided leader who couldn't anticipate a future of kashmir with india beyond nehru.geelani problem is his fascination with pakistan that would lead Kashmiris to ruins.what kashmiris need now is a solution like Musharraf's 4 point formula or something close that would give some breather for a while and let unfolding geopolitical scenario decide a proper occasion for upping the ante on total freedom.there is no rat in a hells chance that 7 million unarmed civilians devoid of any resource can affirm themselves against a 1 billion strong mighty indian state who have every resource in the world at disposal from military to a committed propganda machinery to repress kashmiris.you need to survive to succeed.pakistan has done everything any country can do in terms of diplomatic,political or military support(as in 1965 war).the world knows the truth about Kashmir but at the same time every country national interests are supreme and no country worth its salt would jeopardise its relations with a potential emerging economic superpower on humantarian or moral grounds.so the onus everytime squarely falls on the Kashmiri leadership on how can they stead the ship.they need to move outta their universal victimhood and realize and make the common populace realize that a total freedom from india is next to impossible and take practical steps towards the resolution of kashmir.beating the un resolutions blah blah rhetoric isn't gonna lead anywhere.earlier this realization the better.

Agree with most of it. On sheikh i would like to add that he wasnt exactly naive. He was just greedy for power.

At this juncture it would be unrealistic to think that india would just pack its bags and leave unless an external power goes to war with them and defeats them causing massive geo-political changes in the region which again isnt going to happen OR some changes arise where India as a country breaks down into different parts ( separte south, north east). These are just fantasies at this time.

Realistically speaking, we solely depend on Pakistan to voice our views on the international platform. I agree Pakistan has done everything it can so far but it hasnt done it in the capacity of a powerful and respected state. If USA or UK would have made such efforts more attention would have been grabbed by Kashmir. Hence it becomes important for Kashmir's cause that Pakistan improves drastically in all fields and gains respect internationally.

Talking about political kashmir's future (if and when it comes to reality), personally i dont see complete independence as a realistic option. The best thing in my humble opinion would be an azad kashmir type autonomy under Pakistan. I know autonomy would only be for show but atleast the people would feel satisfied in some sense.

The saddest part is that When i talk to Indians about the kashmir issue, the level of ignorance and brainwashing by state censored media is astonishing. You start the discussion and they will deem you their enemy. "What about pandits?" is the universal question which has been fed to them. Muslims being inherently extremists and "always a problem" is another aspect of their thinking. And lastly "its only a handful of people who are causing problems". You can convince only a handful of people who you interact with. The large majority remains hateful.

 

[Madplayer]

Tibet is there too,it was occupied as well,Kashmir is not rare imo,Palestenians,Tibetians are also in the same boat.
Its easily about economy and globalized world media connections.

All great empires have to see a fall. Maybe not now, but in a thousand years.

 

[Madplayer]

Fair enough I understand what you are saying..

I have always been wondering can you tell me what exactly are you fighting for? You want a separate nation but why? Hypothetical situation IF Indian governance over the last 60+ years was very good and had transformed Kashmir into a developed state with modern health facilities, education, lots of jobs and of course lovely tourism would you still have wanted a separate nation??

I wanna understand how much is the governments failure to integrate and develop Kashmir into India is part of the failure..

Kashmir was never a part of India to begin with. The word "separatism" isnt something which is completely correct to describe this movement. One maharaja cannot sign a document and decide the fate of an entire nation ( there is no proof at all which proves that he signed if BEFORE indian army landed in kashmir which makes the document null and void unless a proof is shown by India)!! How hard is it to understand for any person? The nizam of hyderabad ( hindu majority) wanted it to be a part of Pakistan, what did Indian leaders do for that??? Junagarh???

Kashmiris have been historically opressed eversince mughals arrived. Kashmir was separate till akbar captured yousuf shah chak , the ruler of kashmir in 1586 by deceit. Then we saw the rule of afghans, then sikhs who sold it to british who eventually sold it to gulab singh. The decendent of gulab singh, hari singh, "signed" that document of accession to India because he wanted to save himself from tribal attack. This is all cruelty and opression which kashmiris cannot tolerate and we have time and again strived to free ourselves from tyrants. If india can have its freedom, why cant Kashmir? Just because kashmir faces a powerful opressor, they should give up? Kashmiris haven't given up ever and they never will. Religion is an important factor in all this like some other poster is claiming here but is it the only factor and doesnt it involve the struggle for identity on our own terms which is our right?? Be neutral and be the judge.

 

[street cricketer]

Bro,i didnt generalise anything,that is how i see events unfolding from 1947 and i might be totally wrong on that count too.apologies if you thought that way,was totally unintentional

You make it sound like a billion blood thirsty hindus are out to avenge the past muslim rule. The original idea in itself is a big misconception, yeah there were a few muslim rulers who were despots but then again not everyone were such and it's an irrefutable fact that islamic culture is very a much a part of India and its history too. So the question of "avenging" something goes out of the window.

There are over 200 million muslims living in India with abundance of historic mosques, so I'm not sure where you're getting that impression from.

 

[Indiafan]

Yes only kashmiris are suffering.

India's stand on kashmir has changed drastically in last few years.

From saying that that kashmir issue needs talks with Pakistan , now they are saying that there will be no talks on kashmir. This is clearly due to extremist hindu ideology which has seen a rise in past few years.

From delaying talks on the issue they have reached a point where they say there is no issue at all. while killing blindind maiming amd harrasing of the local kashmiri population and mass brain washing of indian people using censored media is seeing no end. An average Indian has been brainwashed ro such an extent where they believe that the opressed is the opressor.

1) Gee its not like 65 years of Pak sponsored terrorism will have any effect right? I mean you can talk peace all you want but if the other country goes behind your back and backstabs you, you would be a fool to still talk peace

2) Hilarious that someone from a country which has pseudo democracy and had dictatorship at least half of the time, where army is still the strongest instituion, is talking about censorship. if Indian media is censored, Pak is a 100 times more. Brainwashing works both ways

P.S - the opressor here is Pakistan not Kashmiris. So I dunno how they are "opressed"

 

[troodon]

Agree with most of it. On sheikh i would like to add that he wasnt exactly naive. He was just greedy for power.

At this juncture it would be unrealistic to think that india would just pack its bags and leave unless an external power goes to war with them and defeats them causing massive geo-political changes in the region which again isnt going to happen OR some changes arise where India as a country breaks down into different parts ( separte south, north east). These are just fantasies at this time.

Realistically speaking, we solely depend on Pakistan to voice our views on the international platform. I agree Pakistan has done everything it can so far but it hasnt done it in the capacity of a powerful and respected state. If USA or UK would have made such efforts more attention would have been grabbed by Kashmir. Hence it becomes important for Kashmir's cause that Pakistan improves drastically in all fields and gains respect internationally.

Talking about political kashmir's future (if and when it comes to reality), personally i dont see complete independence as a realistic option. The best thing in my humble opinion would be an azad kashmir type autonomy under Pakistan. I know autonomy would only be for show but atleast the people would feel satisfied in some sense.

The saddest part is that When i talk to Indians about the kashmir issue, the level of ignorance and brainwashing by state censored media is astonishing. You start the discussion and they will deem you their enemy. "What about pandits?" is the universal question which has been fed to them. Muslims being inherently extremists and "always a problem" is another aspect of their thinking. And lastly "its only a handful of people who are causing problems". You can convince only a handful of people who you interact with. The large majority remains hateful.

If Kashmiris say - we are Indians too, we need development and jobs and education, then all Indians will support your agitation.

If Kashmiris say - we are not Indians, then you will be deemed as separatists and it is foolish to expect sympathy from ordinary Indians.

 

[Moh@n]

With whose permission are China constructing a corridor passing through Gilgit Baltistan (which is in PoK and hence disputed territory)? It cannot be that the dispute applies to only the Indian administered region of Kashmir.

What is the point of talks when Pakistan don't even think the parts of Kashmir that they have illegally occupied are disputed regions?

 

[Zak_Fan]

With whose permission are China constructing a corridor passing through Gilgit Baltistan (which is in PoK and hence disputed territory)? It cannot be that the dispute applies to only the Indian administered region of Kashmir.

What is the point of talks when Pakistan don't even think the parts of Kashmir that they have illegally occupied are disputed regions?

It is actually good for India. Now we should just do our own constructions in the region and Pakistan is no position to object against that.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

1) Gee its not like 65 years of Pak sponsored terrorism will have any effect right? I mean you can talk peace all you want but if the other country goes behind your back and backstabs you, you would be a fool to still talk peace

2) Hilarious that someone from a country which has pseudo democracy and had dictatorship at least half of the time, where army is still the strongest instituion, is talking about censorship. if Indian media is censored, Pak is a 100 times more. Brainwashing works both ways

P.S - the opressor here is Pakistan not Kashmiris. So I dunno how they are "opressed"

First he is a Kashmiri and second big as if your great country is innocent we all know who sponsor terrorism in balochistan.