Why is Mohammad Amir doing well in T20Is but struggling in the longer formats?

[Abdullah719]

Probably Pakistan's best bowler in T20Is, but has struggled in ODIs since the Champions Trophy.

In Tests, his stats are respectable since was dropped for UAE Tests but he's not really someone who you can rely on, to run through a side on his day and put you in a prime position to win matches.

26 years old, turn-around expected or do you expect him to become a T20 specialist later on in his career?

 

[IAJ]

Quite easy answer. If you could bowl a max of 4 overs in Tests and ODIs he would have done the same there. He hasn’t the fitness and Stamina he had at 17 anymore so now he can only last 4 overs.

 

[Hawkeye]

Misleading post.


He's our best Test bowler, in fact the best on this VERY tour!!

What do people want from him? He has even surpassed the current "favorite" of PPers Shaheen.


So, hate him and bash him for any personal reasons you have, but certainly not for being our best performer and the best bowler.

[MENTION=140154]Arsalan Pro[/MENTION] can shed more light on this.

 

[Syed1]

He was the best bowler in the test series

 

[Arsalan Pro]

He has been the best bowler for us in overseas Test series for last 2 years, all teams have bowlers who hunt in pairs while we expect him to win matches on his own. If every other bowler had bowl like him we wouldn't had let any team score big in Test matches, then only our legendary batsmen could come into play.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Probably Pakistan's best bowler in T20Is, but has struggled in ODIs since the Champions Trophy.

In Tests, his stats are respectable since was dropped for UAE Tests but he's not really someone who you can rely on, to run through a side on his day and put you in a prime position to win matches.

26 years old, turn-around expected or do you expect him to become a T20 specialist later on in his career?

He actually bowled well in the test series, and has been generally good in tests (UAE excluded) since his comeback in Intl cricket.

He was added in the ODI XI making a comeback in a tough series, give him some room, he will deliver. For me he had a good tour

 

[Hawkeye]

He was the best bowler in the test series

He has been the best bowler for us in overseas Test series for last 2 years, all teams have bowlers who hunt in pairs while we expect him to win matches on his own. If every other bowler had bowl like him we wouldn't had let any team score big in Test matches, then only our legendary batsmen could come into play.

Best Test bowler? Check.

Best T20 bowler? Check.

"but but why he isn't world ranked no. 1 in ODIs too? Let me start hating on him."


He's very good in ODIs as well, just not in top form. Will win us matches in the world cup though, as always big match bowler.

 

[Saj]

Mohammad Amir last 11 T20Is:

Overs: 41
Wickets: 21
3 wickets in an innings: 3 times
4 wickets in an innings: Once
Runs conceded: 257
Economy rate: Only 6.27

 

[Usman Chadda]

Because he's not fit enough for the longer formats.

 

[Mueez]

What I have noticed about him is in Tests he wants to be a “traditional test-bowler” who hits the the short/good line and wants to swing the ball and get edges.

In my opinion, he should be attacking more the stumps and bowl a fuller length, when he does that he looks threatening and takes also wickets.

That is afterall also what he did in his first half of his career.

 

[BakuGM]

Amir is the best fast bowler Pakistan currently has with Shaeen probably is number 2. I hope that in the World Cup we will have Amir, Shaheen and Hassan as our lead bowlers with Shaddab joining them in the bowling rank. Pakistan travelling think tank should select another fast bowler (hopefully Junaid is selected in the squad) if the pitch is suited for fast bowling with Shadab missing out of that game. Hafeez needs to bowl at least 5 overs with the rest 5 shared by Haris and Babar.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Because he's a defensive bowler. In ODIs, you can play him out for 0-55. In T20s, you don't have the luxury of playing out any bowler. When you attack defensive bowlers, you gift them wickets.

 

[Hasan123]

He doesn't bowl with same intensity in tests and ODIs. I think also those 5 years he missed he didn't get the chance to develop his bowling muscles.

 

[Titan24]

In ODIs bastmen dont take much risk early on and Amir is pretty accurate however he doesnt have the swing ball anymore due to various reasons so he doesnt have a lot of wicket taking options.

While in T20s batsmen go after him and his accuracy gets him wickets.

 

[gazza619]

Why is Amir so skinny. Can he bowl longer spells with pace which such a physique?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Why is Amir so skinny. Can he bowl longer spells with pace which such a physique?

This Jhye Richardson guy is skinny. But he was energetic all day in the Test.

 

[gazza619]

This Jhye Richardson guy is skinny. But he was energetic all day in the Test.

I think Richardson is one and a half times bigger than Amir.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rhony]

Amir was good in the tests. He is unable to swing the white ball. His back of the length bowling is just good enough to contain runs. Basically, he is now a defensive bowler compared to "that" Amir from Asia Cup T20 against India in BD. "That" Amir was swinging the ball like a banana at 145. He's lost both now- swing and pace.

 

[rhony]

Also, I think Amir and Dhoni are on the same boat. They lost that aggressive streak that made them Champions. Both are defensive drabs and are frustrating both sets of fans.

 

[MMHS]

He is PAK's best fast bowler by some margin. Problem is, he plays for a team which is decent at T20, poor in Test & pathetic in ODI. Hence, his efforts are gone begging in other 2 formats.

Cricket is an unique team game where individuals can carry a team to a certain extent, but other players have to contribute, it's like Basketball to some extent - this year Anthony Davis & Lebron James will miss play off, but will contest for regular season MVP!!!!!

I wrote it probably a year back - what Amir is doing in ODI is more than enough for a good team. But, problem is, other teams don't open with a hack whose every shot is associated with some risk or a stone waller who'll comfortably reach double digit by entire Power Play. So, whatever Amir does in ODI actually goes begging from other end (often), and eventually he is forced to extract something extra, which often will go for punishment. In modern ODI, barring PAK, most teams play their best shot makers in 1-2-3, therefore 5-1-18-0 in Power play should be like gold, unless other end goes for 5-0-35-1 .... net, net every team'll take 55/1 after 10 overs and their middle order isn't bankrupt like Hafeez, Malik, Sarfraz - result is most times that 55/1 ends at 302-6, and people curse Amir - why he is not giving an opening spell of 5-1-19-3!!! Indian opening pacer BK is going at 40 average and close to 6 economy, but he is also effective because his other two partners don't loose the plot almost every day. Statistically, Mashrafee has been better than Amir in opening spell (or overall ODI) in last couple of years, because his team executes a plan as an unit - PP believes in Hollywood spells.

In Test, he was the best fast bowler and MoS for PAK - but, first his team went for 6 batsmen & 3 pacers + Yasir, overloading the fast bowlers .... then batsmen played like tail-enders most times - result is 3 day Test and 3 pacers had to bowl flat out almost every day, defending minuscule totals. PAK's 1st innings highest total was 188 ..... it'll again take Hollywood script to win a Test match from there - SAF isn't ZIM reserves.

 

[Buffet]

4 overs requires a lot less stamina and his defensive bowling is more suited for T-20.

 

[cririri]

He can't keep up the pace for too long and he is a coward.

 

[Khwaja78]

His pace has dropped, he can't swing in to the right hander and he is doing well ?

Credit goes to the format and the opposition who have to open the inning and immediately are under pressure to time the bowl or trying to hit it for 4, unlike test or odi.

He is just required to bowl slow medium pace with scrambled seam which he is doing. He is not the same he was in 2016 where he used to go for a wicket. Now he is bowling defensive manner to stop runs. If there was a low score I doubt he would be able to do anything.

 

[Savak]

Batsmen having a go helps him in the format, he is no enforcer and he is not someone who will run through a team without the appropriate conditions or other bowlers helping him out.

 

[giri26]

Lacks fitness and will to work hard. Bowling 10 overs or 15-20 overs in a day in Tests is difficult and requires prime fitness. Amir is good for 4 over spell in T20's and nothing beyond that. Even in ODIs his first spell is when he puts in effort. If he gets a few wickets then fine, if not he will be bowling 125-130 ks pies after that.

 

[Savak]

Lol he was bowling at 130-134 km/hr in a freaking T-20 game. That is not impressive.

 

[ads101]

Amir bowls very defensively which helps in T20, but in ODIs means he doesn't get wickets. His economy is good. Tests usually he has the same problem, SA an exception. I don't think he has the fitness to play all 3 formats either.

The issue is in ODIs he usually plays with pretty expensive fast bowlers. Hasan, Shinwari, even Shaheen (though admittedly has been more economical of late) go for runs. Amir might pick up more wickets if batsmen were forced to attack him.

It really is a dilemma. I think he would do a lot better if there was another fast bowler who didn't leak runs. But still his fault for not bowling aggressively enough to pick wickets. Regardless if he can't bowl with the opening ball, I wouldn't play him. Perhaps the Shaheen-Amir pair will do well.

 

[Sher Khan]

I didn't watch the the match. Can anyone tell what speed he was bowling at and what his top speed was?

 

[BreadPakoda]

Statistically, he is still your best test bowler in helpful conditions.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

He is doing the same thing in every format. he is clever bowler and you can't hit this guy on every ball ..
Going after him is not that easy
So, he gets wickets in t20s

 

[Titan24]

Lol he was bowling at 130-134 km/hr in a freaking T-20 game. That is not impressive.

Touched 142 Kph in his first spell but in second spell he was around the mark you are mentioning.

 

[Titan24]

I didn't watch the the match. Can anyone tell what speed he was bowling at and what his top speed was?

In first spell his speed was up around 142 kph, I guess the fastest he has bowled on this tour but in the 2nd spell (If it does make a difference in T20) h was around 131-135 kph with faster and slower balls in between.

 

[Shafi]

Most likely his tricks are very limited and work only when there are very limited overs. But when there are plenty o overs you do same 2-3 tricks again and again and batsmen aware of that. amir should stick with T20 only.

 

[Rayyman]

His two strengths are swinging the ball, and bowling at the death.

So in ODIs, when the ball doesn't swing, he will do poorly.

I would play Amir in ODIs, if there is a chance of swing. And then bowl him 7-8 overs within first 20 and last 2-3 at the death. This is where he will be most effective as he isn't great in the middle overs.

 

[Dark_Horse]

His two strengths are swinging the ball, and bowling at the death.

So in ODIs, when the ball doesn't swing, he will do poorly.

I would play Amir in ODIs, if there is a chance of swing. And then bowl him 7-8 overs within first 20 and last 2-3 at the death. This is where he will be most effective as he isn't great in the middle overs.

But he never swings it these days even shaheen was swinging it in this odi series. So the thing which we were told by overseas specialist that new ball doesn’t swings is an excuse rather improving himself

 

[Dark_Horse]

Amir bowls very defensively which helps in T20, but in ODIs means he doesn't get wickets. His economy is good. Tests usually he has the same problem, SA an exception. I don't think he has the fitness to play all 3 formats either.

The issue is in ODIs he usually plays with pretty expensive fast bowlers. Hasan, Shinwari, even Shaheen (though admittedly has been more economical of late) go for runs. Amir might pick up more wickets if batsmen were forced to attack him.

It really is a dilemma. I think he would do a lot better if there was another fast bowler who didn't leak runs. But still his fault for not bowling aggressively enough to pick wickets. Regardless if he can't bowl with the opening ball, I wouldn't play him. Perhaps the Shaheen-Amir pair will do well.

In first odi Hassan had a spell of 10-*-42-1 (if you call that expansive) next game 8--31-0 next 6-31-1 (rain effective) now we come at Amir 7-36 7-26-1
8-40-1. Shaheen 9-44-3 6-37 8-24-2 7-34-1. There economies Hassan 4.33 Amir 4.64 shaheen 4.63. Hassan bowled with Faheem/Shinwari/Talat wheras Amir bowled with Shaheen/Shinwari /Hassan. Shaheen has picked wickets almost ever match with lesser economy. Hassan has played games with lower quality bowlers and high scoring games still his economy is better. Amir despite playing in low scoring games had worse economy while using new ball. So you theory doesn’t works while playing similar bowlers on batting pitches two bowlers have better economy/wickets but for Amir despite having poorer stats there is no help from other bowlers really that after a long rest for uae games, having a go with new ball just golden boy.if he was so sincere and he cannot play in uae due to workload issues why not skip psl whose a major part is going to be played in uae. Simply KK won’t pay for JUST playing games in PAK. There are lot’s of guy bowling there heart out in PAK domestic having a dream to play for PAKISTAN.

 

[NauV]

Simply put, Amir will not be any good as he is bowling currently . .

The world saw immense talent in Amir because he could do two things simultaneously . .
1. Swing the ball
2. And do it at pace . . over 140kph

Today, he can do neither!!

Another thing to understand is . . Amir is not a seam bowler . . so even if he gets his swing back, he will not be successful at 128 to 133kph as he is bowling currently . . that's just too much time for good batsman to line up and play the swing . . seam bowlers are different . . they can pitch the bowl up and the nip of the seam from there which is much tougher because of the reduced reaction time! THat is why you have seen great seam bowlers like Pollock, Asif, Philander, Mcgrath (even though McGrath was faster than these guys) be successful at lower speeds . . Amir will never be that!!

Look at Steyn! He comes back after 2 years of injury . . shoulder injury at that . . and is still bowling 140+ . . I am sure it would have been easy for him to say . . ahh!! I just need to tone it down a bit and continue to play for south africa . . but Steyn knows he won't be successful at that pace!

Bhuvi is another example . . I remember him bursting on the scene back in the day with his swing, but had to increase his pace with time to become a force . .

In short, swing at medium pace doesn't work . .

Obviously, right now . . Amir isn't doing either! Amir needs the PERFECT conditions in his current state to be successful . . and how many times does he get PERFECT conditions? Not many!!

The KPI needs to be simple for him:

Get back to an average speed of 138 to 140 to have a shot at selection . . Till you are committed to do that and you continue to bowl at 130kph, no place in teh team for you! Not just 140 kph in your first spell . . but also the last spell of the day!

I remember once some expert said that Steyn is so great because he knows at what speed to bowl at what stage . . when the bowl is swinging, you will notice him maintain 138 to 140 or whatever the optimum pace is to be most threatening with the swing . . when it stops swinging, he can go up a gear and bowl 145 . . Point is, you need that skill to be successful at that level . . yes Steyn is a freak! but Amir needs to add 10kph on average . .

Lastly, I don't even get it . . the guy is 26 . . even if his age is a couple of years more . . that is the best age for fast bowlers . . you get "wiser" and "more experienced" and "slower" at 35 . . not at 28!!

 

[Greenstorm]

The way Amir is bowling these days, he will not be part of playing XI in WC.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Reality is that Aamir isn't performing well because he has to bowl economical lines to contain batsmen, as he has to bowl alongside poor bowlers. Same with Shaheen who at a young age has to take burden of being a frontline bowler, as he has to bowl alongside poor bowlers. Even Hasan isn't performing well because he has been burdened with the responsibility of taking wickets, as he has to bowl alongside poor bowlers.

 

[Mueez]

My gut feeling is saying that this will be the year when Amir gets back to his old form...

 

[Hawkeye]

SO, man of the series for Pak in Tests, and our best Test bowler, is struggling in the longer formats.



While others are so much better, indeed. And escape the hate that Amir gets.

 

[Hawkeye]

He is PAK's best fast bowler by some margin. Problem is, he plays for a team which is decent at T20, poor in Test & pathetic in ODI. Hence, his efforts are gone begging in other 2 formats.

Cricket is an unique team game where individuals can carry a team to a certain extent, but other players have to contribute, it's like Basketball to some extent - this year Anthony Davis & Lebron James will miss play off, but will contest for regular season MVP!!!!!

I wrote it probably a year back - what Amir is doing in ODI is more than enough for a good team. But, problem is, other teams don't open with a hack whose every shot is associated with some risk or a stone waller who'll comfortably reach double digit by entire Power Play. So, whatever Amir does in ODI actually goes begging from other end (often), and eventually he is forced to extract something extra, which often will go for punishment. In modern ODI, barring PAK, most teams play their best shot makers in 1-2-3, therefore 5-1-18-0 in Power play should be like gold, unless other end goes for 5-0-35-1 .... net, net every team'll take 55/1 after 10 overs and their middle order isn't bankrupt like Hafeez, Malik, Sarfraz - result is most times that 55/1 ends at 302-6, and people curse Amir - why he is not giving an opening spell of 5-1-19-3!!! Indian opening pacer BK is going at 40 average and close to 6 economy, but he is also effective because his other two partners don't loose the plot almost every day. Statistically, Mashrafee has been better than Amir in opening spell (or overall ODI) in last couple of years, because his team executes a plan as an unit - PP believes in Hollywood spells.

In Test, he was the best fast bowler and MoS for PAK - but, first his team went for 6 batsmen & 3 pacers + Yasir, overloading the fast bowlers .... then batsmen played like tail-enders most times - result is 3 day Test and 3 pacers had to bowl flat out almost every day, defending minuscule totals. PAK's 1st innings highest total was 188 ..... it'll again take Hollywood script to win a Test match from there - SAF isn't ZIM reserves.

Very well said.

 

[JibranAnsari]

He is just a line length bowler now , his main weapon was swing which he has lost. People comparing him to shaheen must know that shaheen was on his first overseas tour and had more wickets than amir after two test matches and shaheen didnt play the third one. In the odis shaheen was easily our best bowler who took wickets with the new ball. At the moment shaheen is better than amir.

 

[hadi123]

You only have 4 overs to bowl so he puts 110% effort into every ball. Also, there is a constant pressure on the batting team to score quickly so batsmen go after him, which is why his defensive bowling is good for him in T20I's. He is not good in ODI's though.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

Also, I think Amir and Dhoni are on the same boat. They lost that aggressive streak that made them Champions. Both are defensive drabs and are frustrating both sets of fans.

Thank you brother for saying the truth. I am an Indian cricket fan but i am very disappointed with Amir. I was so excited when he made comeback to international cricket. I was hoping that he will set the cricket world on fire. It is cringeworthy to watch him bowl in test matches. His body language is so dull in test cricket, no josh/jazba, no desire to run through batting lineups, no hunger to be the best in the world. It looks like he only cares about $$$ after all. Playing PSL, T10 n all.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

yep getting out #8 / #9 is hard these days, certainly bowling well .

 

[Mirpur express]

Post ban Aamir can only bowl 4 good overs & enen then he hardly hits 140kph.. did well in tests but still not good enough to win a test match..

 

[Mirpur express]

SO, man of the series for Pak in Tests, and our best Test bowler, is struggling in the longer formats.



While others are so much better, indeed. And escape the hate that Amir gets.

When was the last time Aamir won us a test match??

 

[barah_admi]

Probably Pakistan's best bowler in T20Is, but has struggled in ODIs since the Champions Trophy.

In Tests, his stats are respectable since was dropped for UAE Tests but he's not really someone who you can rely on, to run through a side on his day and put you in a prime position to win matches.

26 years old, turn-around expected or do you expect him to become a T20 specialist later on in his career?

I mean, averaging a little over 23 in tests in the last 2 years is hardly struggling. Why do you think it is?

In ODIs he has certainly been bad, especially as a wicket taker but he is very useful as a holding bowler and when guys like Hasan, Shadab and hopefully Raees/Shaheen can pick up wickets. Add in Imad and possibly another bowler in the squad, Pak have a line up which can make use of Amir's abilities, even if they may not be what we want them to be.

 

[Syed1]

SO, man of the series for Pak in Tests, and our best Test bowler, is struggling in the longer formats.



While others are so much better, indeed. And escape the hate that Amir gets.

Undue hatred for Amir seems to be the theme of this forum. Sure he needs to improve his performance in ODIs, but to call him "finished" etc when he just became our best bowler in a test series and averaged 23 in the last 2 years is just


And then he played ONE T20 and had a massive hand in us winning it, but no Amir is "finished"

 

[Kroll]

If we're comparing against our other bowlers, then I don't it's a major achievement to be the "best" bowler out of our current mediocre bowling attack.

Aside from the T20 tamasha cricket, he needs to have more impact in the longer formats of the game otherwise he'll just become our bowling version of Asad Shafiq. Once in a few innings good performance to save his spot.

 

[Buffet]

Reality is that Aamir isn't performing well because he has to bowl economical lines to contain batsmen, as he has to bowl alongside poor bowlers. Same with Shaheen who at a young age has to take burden of being a frontline bowler, as he has to bowl alongside poor bowlers. Even Hasan isn't performing well because he has been burdened with the responsibility of taking wickets, as he has to bowl alongside poor bowlers.

Are you saying that all bowlers are poor because they happen to bowl with other poor bowlers? Are serious here or just trolling?

 

[Saj]

Well, perhaps to get the best out of him in future, Pakistan should only play him in 20 over and 50 over cricket.

It may improve his longevity and improve his overall Limited-Overs career.

 

[mastersaan10]

Well we don't have any bowlers who can swing the new ball or even have pace and that is disheartening or even bowlers who ball offstump line consistently with decent pace. Definitely dark times ahead for Pakistan cricket

 

[Banter]

In T20, batsmen are forced to take more risk and attack the bowler, so even average bowlers can be very effective in T20.

 

[typicryptic]

I am not very knowledgeable about the game so can someone please help me out. What I want to know is, how can someone just "lose" the skill of being able to swing the ball after being a prodigious talent at it when he was 18 years old? I honestly don't understand that part.

The pace thing is also puzzling to me, why is he regressing in speed rather than getting quicker as his body matured?

 

[Cric_lover4487]

To be frank, Amir was never really fast even before he got banned. He bowled in mid 130's and occasionally bowled 140's. He is more in mould of James Anderson rather than Mitchell Johnson. I don't think he ever troubles anyone with sheer pace. He still has great ability to swing the ball but off course he needs some help from wicket. His performance vs us (India) in Asia cup T20, CT17 final comes to my mind. At times i feel, Amir gets too much of hate. Even hacks like Rayadu tonk James Anderson all round the park on dead Indian wickets. Amir plays mostly on dead UAE wickets. Only thing feasible on such wickets is reverse swing with old ball. Its just a classic case of hype going down and fans unable to digest the fact that he is really good but not a ATG material by any means.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

he is the new Irfan Pathan for Pakistan

 

[shaaik]

To be frank, Amir was never really fast even before he got banned. He bowled in mid 130's and occasionally bowled 140's. He is more in mould of James Anderson rather than Mitchell Johnson. I don't think he ever troubles anyone with sheer pace. He still has great ability to swing the ball but off course he needs some help from wicket. His performance vs us (India) in Asia cup T20, CT17 final comes to my mind. At times i feel, Amir gets too much of hate. Even hacks like Rayadu tonk James Anderson all round the park on dead Indian wickets. Amir plays mostly on dead UAE wickets. Only thing feasible on such wickets is reverse swing with old ball. Its just a classic case of hype going down and fans unable to digest the fact that he is really good but not a ATG material by any means.

I remember him bowling in late 140s consistently and even crossing 150 in tests in New Zealand before he got banned. His fastest was 156 kmph on that tour. The 5 years ban has completely taken its toll on him..He's not the same bowler anymore and probably won't ever be..

 

[Mamoon]

Amir has been reduced to a support bowler. Someone who can keep things tight and pick a couple of wickets every now and then. People talk a lot about his excellent average in Test cricket over the last 12 months, but they key statistic is that he has not picked up a single 5 wicket haul.

In ODIs, he has zero 5 wicket hauls in his career so far and looking at his bowling, he will probably never get one. That is quite frankly shameful for a bowler who was touted as an ATG talent and the next Wasim.

He is no longer good enough to merit a comparison with bowlers like Starc, Boult, Rabada, Bumrah, Cummins etc. who can blow away opposition when their tails are up. Bowlers who can run through a lineup and win their team the game. Amir's definition of running through lineups is to take 3 wickets on a good day, while going wicket-less frequently on other occasions.

He would be a very good support bowler for a genuine strike bowler, but the problem is that in Pakistan, he is supposed to be the strike bowler. I think it is the fault of the selectors, management and the fans and not Amir. They want him to perform a job that is beyond his capability. It is not his problem that he is not good enough or that there are no genuine strike bowlers in Pakistan at the moment.