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Why is Pakistan so obsessed with pace?

Sher Khan

Local Club Captain
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
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Let me give you an example..Haris Rauf a nothing bowler who would even struggle to make it into domestic cricket for other countries. Yes, he has 140kph plus pace but they don't make up for the filth he serves up to batsmen as well as his lack of game awareness.

On the other hand, Aaron Summers a 150kph bowler similar to Haris as he relies on pace. Both are comparable bowlers, yet Haris has played international cricket and is a PSL "star" whereas Summers hardly even gets picked in domestic cricket as they know he offers nothing apart from his pace.

Why are Pakistan so obsessed with pace no matter how mediocre the bowler is?
 
Its not a wrong obsession tbh. Bowlers with pace has more chance to succeed than trundlers. Ofcourse line and length is important but margin of errors is very less for medium pacers. If you got pace, you can extract something even from dead surfaces which trundlers cant.
 
Aoron Summers has Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins, Pattinson and dozen other bowlers stopping him from playing int'l cricket for Australia.

Haris Rauf on the other hand.....
 
Its not a wrong obsession tbh. Bowlers with pace has more chance to succeed than trundlers. Ofcourse line and length is important but margin of errors is very less for medium pacers. If you got pace, you can extract something even from dead surfaces which trundlers cant.

But you have to have other qualities too like Archer gets some lethal bounce and movement to complement his pace. Shaheen has a wicked inswinger, etc.
 
The thread is created to Shame Harris Rauf. He has been named as an individual example of a poor fast bowler who bowls 145+

This comes after Sohail Akhtar, the captain of LQ dropped a sitter of Vilijeon on Rauf’s bowling when he was on 2*, only to then score 20 of Rauf’s last over. This is cricket, this can be a tough game.

OP could have waited for the end of this play off before targeting Rauf like this
 
On the flipside, I don't think Mohammed Abbas would have become the leader of Pakistan's test attack if they were obsessed only with pace.
 
More musa khan than rauf

Rauf did it in Australian domestics
Naseem and musa did in the nets on a scouting mission
 
Let me give you an example..Haris Rauf a nothing bowler who would even struggle to make it into domestic cricket for other countries. Yes, he has 140kph plus pace but they don't make up for the filth he serves up to batsmen as well as his lack of game awareness.

On the other hand, Aaron Summers a 150kph bowler similar to Haris as he relies on pace. Both are comparable bowlers, yet Haris has played international cricket and is a PSL "star" whereas Summers hardly even gets picked in domestic cricket as they know he offers nothing apart from his pace.

Why are Pakistan so obsessed with pace no matter how mediocre the bowler is?
The guy you say would have struggled to makeother was literally the best bowler of the australian PSL, while the likes of Aaron summera sat on the bench.
Matlab kuch bhi. At least use a better argument.
 
not really an obsession, its just nice to have pacy bowlers because all else being equal pace increases bounce, which is important for (compartively) shorter pakistanis.

ask any pak fan and theyll say the most talented pak bowler after the two Ws was pbly asif, and he barely got to 83, 84, but he was 6'3" so he could push batsmen on back foot from a length.

pakistanis generally dont have the height of aussie and west indian bowlers, so need pace to push batsmen back, its the reason new zealand played abbas so easily last time they were in uae.
 
People need to chill the heck out with criticism of Rauf. He was the leading wicket taker in the National T20 recently concluded, 3rd highest wicket taker in T20s this year. Criticism is going overboard. :facepalm:
 
Its an easy question to answer. High speed pace is one of the most exciting aspects of cricket and Pakistan has a proud heritage in this department.

As the old saying goes: "Pace is pace yaar". :akhtar
 
Rauf is still pretty raw and hasn't played that much domestically or internationally so inaccurate lines/length is to be expected.

It's also important to keep in mind accuracy can be improved, but generally, you can't really add raw natural pace/arm strength a person has.

Hopefully he'll become more accurate over time. I think he needs to play FC a bit more consistently for it to happen though.
 
OP 's example breaks the opening partnetship for Qalander s in his 1st over. I hope OP is watching the match and his pace closely ;)
 
Haris rauf changed the match with sheer pace, YES we are obsessed with pace and aggression What a yorker to boom boom Afridi and then appology afterwards... :root:
 
Aoron Summers has Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins, Pattinson and dozen other bowlers stopping him from playing int'l cricket for Australia.

Haris Rauf on the other hand.....

I live in Australia. I have played grade cricket before and I tune in to shield cricket quite often

Apart from the frontline bowlers, Australia only have jhye Richardson who is decent in tests but he is very injury prone. He is also built like a mosquito. Then there are some fodders like stetkee etc, Jackson bird lol. Summers Is straight up garbage. He can bowl 150 every now and then.

He can never sustain those speeds above 140 let alone 150 in red ball for longer than 4 overs.
 
Sher Khan you are a nice guy and I think you are a true Pakistan fan at heart. iss Liye aapko bakhsha jaa sakta hai.

You have to be very careful creating a thread targeting a guy a few hours before a match. He has the most T20 wickets in the year 2020 now. Pace matters bro.
 
Aoron Summers has Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins, Pattinson and dozen other bowlers stopping him from playing int'l cricket for Australia.

Haris Rauf on the other hand.....

Cummins :))
 
You can learn everything about fast bowling except for pace. You either have it or you don't. Thats why fans get excited a bowler gifted with natural pace who then learn swing, line etc will be deadly.
 
Pace is pace yaar :akhtar Also hilarious comparison with Aaron Summers, who Rauf absolutely wiped the floor with in the BBL
 
I live in Australia. I have played grade cricket before and I tune in to shield cricket quite often

Apart from the frontline bowlers, Australia only have jhye Richardson who is decent in tests but he is very injury prone. He is also built like a mosquito. Then there are some fodders like stetkee etc, Jackson bird lol. Summers Is straight up garbage. He can bowl 150 every now and then.

He can never sustain those speeds above 140 let alone 150 in red ball for longer than 4 overs.

I was talking about all three formats. OP made a point about why Summers hasn't played int'l cricket yet and Haris Rauf has. Didn't specifically say Test cricket. These are the bowlers

Starc
Hazlewood
Cummins
Pattinson
Jhye
Behrendorf
Kane
Sean Abbott
Meredith
Coulter Nile
Andrew Tye
Billy Stanlake


This is the pecking order currently (all formats combined). Summers has to go past all these and that he hasn't. On the other hand Rauf has much lesser competition for obvious reasons and also has done more noticeable things.
 
RAuf making a mockery of zeeshan with pace....and to a certain extent lalaa too... Threads are made with lightning speed here........patience is very costly virtue now a days
 
What are you laughing at? The fact that he's a top3 bowler in the world unarguably?

Misbah and Waqar will give ten Haris Raufs to have one Pat Cummins.

I think u should replace Misbah and Waqar with IPL and Haris Rauf 's with million dollars....
Picture perfect.........
 
I was talking about all three formats. OP made a point about why Summers hasn't played int'l cricket yet and Haris Rauf has. Didn't specifically say Test cricket. These are the bowlers

Starc
Hazlewood
Cummins
Pattinson
Jhye
Behrendorf
Kane
Sean Abbott
Meredith
Coulter Nile
Andrew Tye
Billy Stanlake


This is the pecking order currently (all formats combined). Summers has to go past all these and that he hasn't. On the other hand Rauf has much lesser competition for obvious reasons and also has done more noticeable things.

Counter nile ....??? Tye...??? Seriously ??? Only J Richardson is somewhat potent......Pattinson Starc are injury prone....Cummins is test material....Hazelwood is ok.....but not a long term option......Australia is far behind Windies Saffas Pak and England as far as pace back up is concerned
 
I think u should replace Misbah and Waqar with IPL and Haris Rauf 's with million dollars....
Picture perfect.........

Yeah right because Misbah and Waqar have dozens of Cummins' sitting in their dressing rooms winning them Test matches left and right. Forgot about that for a minute.
 
Counter nile ....??? Tye...??? Seriously ??? Only J Richardson is somewhat potent......Pattinson Starc are injury prone....Cummins is test material....Hazelwood is ok.....but not a long term option......Australia is far behind Windies Saffas Pak and England as far as pace back up is concerned


Injuries aren't in anybody's control. Just because they are injury prone doesn't mean they are inferior or down the pecking order.

Lol at Hazlewood being "ok" and not a long term option. And a bigger lol at Saf Pak and WI having better fast bowling resources than Australia.
 
Injuries aren't in anybody's control. Just because they are injury prone doesn't mean they are inferior or down the pecking order.

Lol at Hazlewood being "ok" and not a long term option. And a bigger lol at Saf Pak and WI having better fast bowling resources than Australia.

Bumrah
Shami
Ishant
Bhuvi
Saini
Siraj
Umesh
Porel
Tyagi
Nathu Singh


Lol dude. India's depth is vastly underrated. You lot will be surprised. I would say actually Indian depth is better than saffers and w.indies etc. Pretty much everyone except maybe Aussies and the pakistanis.
 
Actually scratch that. I made a blunder mistake. India's depth is slightly inferior to Pakistan and Aussies but India's frontline bowlers are better than green patriots. On par with the Aussies.
 
Bumrah
Shami
Ishant
Bhuvi
Saini
Siraj
Umesh
Porel
Tyagi
Nathu Singh


Lol dude. India's depth is vastly underrated. You lot will be surprised. I would say actually Indian depth is better than saffers and w.indies etc. Pretty much everyone except maybe Aussies and the pakistanis.

Definitely better depth than windies and saffers. India has good depth.
 
Aoron Summers has Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins, Pattinson and dozen other bowlers stopping him from playing int'l cricket for Australia.

Haris Rauf on the other hand.....

But wait - I thought if you shake a tree in Pakistan, 2-3 fast bowlers fall out?

Pakistan me bohut talent hai...
 
But wait - I thought if you shake a tree in Pakistan, 2-3 fast bowlers fall out?

Pakistan me bohut talent hai...

Rauf is one of those 2-3 fast bowlers who fell out of the shaken tree. How many other countries can pick a nobody 25 year old off the streets and turn him into a 150kph hard ball bowler within a year? You’re pretty much proving the point - Pakistan has been a victim of gross mismanagement and anti-player development policies geared towards preparing the least best international side possible. What little talent we do have slips through the cracks while what little talent New Zealand has is maximized to its potential.

So by cherrypicking Rauf, you’re supporting the claim (which is hyperbolic of course).
 
Umar gull was top 10 in t20s easily

Probably numero uno at one point, had some devastating yorkers when he was at his peak. Apart from that, good honest worker he was.
 
I’m not sure Shami and Bumrah have achieved Umar Gul level yet

Winning series in Australia? Winning a test match in every SENA country? Not sure if a lot of Pakistani bowlers have reached their level either.

:)) Pakistanis even huffed and puffed against WI in WI while Indian fast bowlers were wrecking havoc last time they toured there.

May be in T20 formats with 20 other caveats sure Gul is better I guess.
 
I’m not sure Shami and Bumrah have achieved Umar Gul level yet

Shami has already surpassed Gul's wicket tally in tests and has much better average. In odis he has only 35 wickets lesser at a better average. In t20is, Gul is far ahead.

Bumrah has exceptional number in tests and odis though longevity favours Gul. In t20is, he has been good but Gul is a GOAT.

If not Bumrah , at least Shami has already achieved more than Gul.
 
Shami and Bumrah are two of the best fast bowlers in the world, and I always try to take out the time to watch them.
They are definitely superior to Gul who was extremely inconsistent and found it tough to replicate his bowling rhythm regularly.
 
Shami and Bumrah are two of the best fast bowlers in the world, and I always try to take out the time to watch them.
They are definitely superior to Gul who was extremely inconsistent and found it tough to replicate his bowling rhythm regularly.

bumrah's key is to have the front foot braced which allows him to bowl at high speeds with unerring accuracy. have to be careful though not to hyper extend your knee as you can tear your ACL if you dont brace properly.

Bumrah actually has a very good action. It doesnt quite take a huge toll on the body if you know how to brace well. Its his hyperextension that looks scary. So if anything, his wrist joint could cause an issue for him.
 
bumrah's key is to have the front foot braced which allows him to bowl at high speeds with unerring accuracy. have to be careful though not to hyper extend your knee as you can tear your ACL if you dont brace properly.

Bumrah actually has a very good action. It doesnt quite take a huge toll on the body if you know how to brace well. Its his hyperextension that looks scary. So if anything, his wrist joint could cause an issue for him.

Bumrah's action is anything but good.....it's harmful for ankles......elbow ...shoulder ......Bumrah needs to b accurate with his action too.....any disbalance means he could face injury in any of the 3 ....
 
Pak supporters need to be patient with all bowlers and batters....baring some most are new in international cricket. RAuf Hasnain have the potential .......about time they will fulfill it
 
Shami and Bumrah are two of the best fast bowlers in the world, and I always try to take out the time to watch them.
They are definitely superior to Gul who was extremely inconsistent and found it tough to replicate his bowling rhythm regularly.

Yes, but Umar Gul , when in rhythm, was quite a bowler especially in the 2007-2011 period and particularly in white ball cricket. What issues did he have?
 
Let me give you an example..Haris Rauf a nothing bowler who would even struggle to make it into domestic cricket for other countries. Yes, he has 140kph plus pace but they don't make up for the filth he serves up to batsmen as well as his lack of game awareness.

On the other hand, Aaron Summers a 150kph bowler similar to Haris as he relies on pace. Both are comparable bowlers, yet Haris has played international cricket and is a PSL "star" whereas Summers hardly even gets picked in domestic cricket as they know he offers nothing apart from his pace.

Why are Pakistan so obsessed with pace no matter how mediocre the bowler is?

I think this is a flawed question to begin with. Not that it shouldn’t be brought up but it’s flawed because you don’t obsess over pace as you either have it or not. Yes you can add a few kph but that’s about it. A medium bowler would almost never be able to become an express bowler.

Let me break it down a little. Pakistan’s obsession is or should be accuracy and control. Depending on the part of the world you bowl and the height of the batsman your accuracy l&l should be key. Given the fact that under lights or cloudy conditions or close to the sea you will get degrees of swing, your control as well as accuracy is vital. This indeed is an obsession as I’ve see ordinary bowlers become world beaters just because they understand how to manipulate conditions. Marcus north in 2010 being a case in point.

Notice so far I’ve not mentioned speed. That’s because accuracy,control, swing and seam are much more of an obsession as these are exactly the tools a bowler is developing. Just think of asif who would struggle on dead flat pitches but be lethal whenever there was something to exploit. Now contrast that with Sami who was a fantastic bowler but often couldn’t control the swing and seam. Ie he failed his control. This was especially the case under lights in places like dambulla or even in England.

So nobody obsesses about speed but you have speedstars breaking onto the circuit because they are able to beat human reflexes at 90mph. But these guys, Sami wahab, irshad, talha etc can’t last very long in the team because sooner or later when they leave the dead pitches of Pakistan or uae they arrive in places where ball swings miles and seams sharply and they lose all control.

You mentioned archer...well if you play in England where there is so much swing and seam on offer you don’t nor should you bowl 90mph. (The effort in bowling so fast means you lose control and accuracy) you need an optimum medium pace to swing the ball. Ironically faster and faster doesn’t result in greater swing, nor accuracy nor control.

At the moment you are seeing Harris rauf learning his craft. He’s trying to maintain control on dead pitches so his speed is the only weapon. As he develops and plays in different countries and conditions he will have to demonstrate accuracy and control maintain some swing or seam whilst bowling at top speed. It took Waqar and wasim years to do this. Usually it’s about 5 years.
If you don’t believe me just look at how long McGrath or starc or Cummins spent in domestic arena before they broke into the side. Australians and English in particular obsess over accuracy and player development. I wish we did more but then we have our own method which is to throw them into meaningless LOI so they learn quick or disappear.

Come to think of it where have the likes of ZIA UL HAQUE gone. For a while he was touted as the next big thing.
 
I think this is a flawed question to begin with. Not that it shouldn’t be brought up but it’s flawed because you don’t obsess over pace as you either have it or not. Yes you can add a few kph but that’s about it. A medium bowler would almost never be able to become an express bowler.

Let me break it down a little. Pakistan’s obsession is or should be accuracy and control. Depending on the part of the world you bowl and the height of the batsman your accuracy l&l should be key. Given the fact that under lights or cloudy conditions or close to the sea you will get degrees of swing, your control as well as accuracy is vital. This indeed is an obsession as I’ve see ordinary bowlers become world beaters just because they understand how to manipulate conditions. Marcus north in 2010 being a case in point.

Notice so far I’ve not mentioned speed. That’s because accuracy,control, swing and seam are much more of an obsession as these are exactly the tools a bowler is developing. Just think of asif who would struggle on dead flat pitches but be lethal whenever there was something to exploit. Now contrast that with Sami who was a fantastic bowler but often couldn’t control the swing and seam. Ie he failed his control. This was especially the case under lights in places like dambulla or even in England.

So nobody obsesses about speed but you have speedstars breaking onto the circuit because they are able to beat human reflexes at 90mph. But these guys, Sami wahab, irshad, talha etc can’t last very long in the team because sooner or later when they leave the dead pitches of Pakistan or uae they arrive in places where ball swings miles and seams sharply and they lose all control.

You mentioned archer...well if you play in England where there is so much swing and seam on offer you don’t nor should you bowl 90mph. (The effort in bowling so fast means you lose control and accuracy) you need an optimum medium pace to swing the ball. Ironically faster and faster doesn’t result in greater swing, nor accuracy nor control.

At the moment you are seeing Harris rauf learning his craft. He’s trying to maintain control on dead pitches so his speed is the only weapon. As he develops and plays in different countries and conditions he will have to demonstrate accuracy and control maintain some swing or seam whilst bowling at top speed. It took Waqar and wasim years to do this. Usually it’s about 5 years.
If you don’t believe me just look at how long McGrath or starc or Cummins spent in domestic arena before they broke into the side. Australians and English in particular obsess over accuracy and player development. I wish we did more but then we have our own method which is to throw them into meaningless LOI so they learn quick or disappear.

Come to think of it where have the likes of ZIA UL HAQUE gone. For a while he was touted as the next big thing.

Cummins made his test debut at 18 :srt The boy was a prodigy with a not fully developed body to help him make the most of his talent at the time.
 
Are there any decent medium pace bowlers who should be getting consideration instead? If the choice is between a mediocre pacy bowler and a mediocre trundler, then you may as well go with the pace.
 
Probably numero uno at one point, had some devastating yorkers when he was at his peak. Apart from that, good honest worker he was.

Exactly but hes definitely top 10 in t20s no question about it
 
Shami and Bumrah are two of the best fast bowlers in the world, and I always try to take out the time to watch them.
They are definitely superior to Gul who was extremely inconsistent and found it tough to replicate his bowling rhythm regularly.

In t20s umar gul has better stats than bumra but overall the other two are better
 
Cummins made his test debut at 18 :srt The boy was a prodigy with a not fully developed body to help him make the most of his talent at the time.

McGrath also debuted in internationals after only 8 FC games. Which is very, very few considering there was no T20 gobbling up summer or to leave & play.
 
Dilbar Rauf Hasnain Naseem Saheen they all are asset to any team... Now hope Pak don't waste them.....if u add Arshad Akif to the mix....it's a good stock
 
I'm mean isn't Pakistan called "the land of pace & swing" in the cricketing world? It's just part of the cricketing culture there.
 
Yes, but Umar Gul , when in rhythm, was quite a bowler especially in the 2007-2011 period and particularly in white ball cricket. What issues did he have?

Gul was a very gifted athlete, but he had issues with his rythm because he didn’t follow a set manual of how to bowl. In his mind, he kept trying to replicate waqar's action, when he should have devised his own method.

I have seen his pace go from 135 on average to 145 in the space of two games plenty of times in his career. This shows how his method wasn't process oriented.

No doubt, he looked a world class LOI bowler in his peak, but this rhythm issue brought a lot of inconsistency in his performances; particularly after he exited his prime.
 
A better example would be Musa Khan. The only reason he's persisted with is because of our obsession with pace.

He has no accuracy or any other discernible skills, and his domestic record is awful. Yet Misbah and Waqar saw fit to give him a Test debut in Australia of all pacers.
 
Bumrah
Shami
Ishant
Bhuvi
Saini
Siraj
Umesh
Porel
Tyagi
Nathu Singh


Lol dude. India's depth is vastly underrated. You lot will be surprised. I would say actually Indian depth is better than saffers and w.indies etc. Pretty much everyone except maybe Aussies and the pakistanis.

A better example would be Musa Khan. The only reason he's persisted with is because of our obsession with pace.

He has no accuracy or any other discernible skills, and his domestic record is awful. Yet Misbah and Waqar saw fit to give him a Test debut in Australia of all pacers.

Pace is always handy, no denying that. In fact one should always be obsessed with pace - nothing wrong with that. The problem is that these days Pakistan (PP) is obsessed with 140KM gun barrel straight pace, hence .... you know.

In our younger days we were also obsessed with PAK (& WIN) pace battery - people like Wasim, Waquar, Zahid, Shoaib, Nadeem Akhtar, Irfan Fazil, Aamer Nazir, Mo Sami .... heck Mo Akram was express compared to some of the speedsters PP gets excited about these days. Taskin & Rubel once clocked 147.3km (or 150.9km???) on odd deliveries, therefore I guess you can understand what I am trying to say about pace is pace yaar .....
 
Why shouldn't Pakistan be fascinated with pace, rather obsessed. Bowling fast has been legacy of Pak cricket. And it's a proud legacy. I have seen Pak bowlers of late 1990s bowl teams out on flattest pitches. May be someone remembers Asian Test Championship.
 
Because genuinely express fast bowlers in cricket, and particularly in Test cricket, are incredibly exciting to watch.

There are a great many poorer cricket-related things that one could be obsessed with than bowlers of extreme pace.
 
Watching genuine quicks is very exciting for spectators.I used to love watching the great West Indian fast bowlers.
 
Seems like the obsession is over. Just watched the highlights. Hamza and Wasim bowl at Ronnie Irani / Collingwood pace.
 
Pace frightens even the best batsmen to death. The more fast bowlers the better.
 
OP has spoken like someone who has never played any cricket. :))
 
Who is this cricketer?

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 100%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/mxv0dx" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
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Because genuinely express fast bowlers in cricket, and particularly in Test cricket, are incredibly exciting to watch.

There are a great many poorer cricket-related things that one could be obsessed with than bowlers of extreme pace.

Well said. There are so many people who are scared of saying this because some “insightful” line and length merchants will remind us of that phrase that apparently no one us have have every heard before - the height of “insight”…..

……

Wait for it…..

“Pace is not everything…”

Yea cheers
 
Genuine pace with accuracy is what the world is scared of. Shaheen even in low 140's can scare the batsmen around the world because he has tremendous accuracy.
 
The obsession that got Haris Rauf a Test cap. There's so much more to fast bowling than the speed gun.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Naseem Shah:<br><br>149kph<br>148kph<br>150kph<br>149kph<br>148kph<br>148kph<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BPL2023?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BPL2023</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/KemLuziJAL">pic.twitter.com/KemLuziJAL</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1619273843495043072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 28, 2023</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Should be more obsessed in finding someone with Mohammed Asif's skills

Asif was like Warne, he used to mentally beat batsmen and had supreme confidence in his ability. That quality is not something you can “find”. You can find a medium pacer, teach him how to move the ball, but you need more at international level. Asif had that extra in his head. Asif should be recruited as a mentor on the mental aspect of bowling, I think he could do wonders for some of our trundlers.

But you cannot diss pace just because one medium pacer in a generation was world class. You can have both and you can put importance on both.
 
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