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Why is Pakistan the only country that plays full strength, experienced teams in T20Is?

Hawkeye

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We have players like Malik (20 years experience), Sarfraz, Hafeez, Hasan Ali, Amir regularly featuring in T20i matches. I'd even include Fakhar Zaman.

These cricketers already are playing the other formats regularly and have tons of experience as of now.

Compare that to a team like South Africa. No Steyn, Rabada, Amla, de Kock, even Faf has decided not to play the remaining 2 T20s.

They played a bowling attack that nobody had even heard of. Yet won. This is a fun format that nobody takes really "seriously" and uses it to test new players.

Why are we stuck with the likes of Malik even here? Why the board and selectors don't have any sort of visionary thinking?
 
We are borderline minnows in Tests and ODIs, and T20Is are the only format where the big teams rarely play their best XI, so it is an opportunity for us to collect cheap wins and maintain an artificial ranking.
 
I could have guessed that was coming.
Other teams are more established in both tests and odis and we are not. So I think it is actually good for our guys to bat when 6s are required and also for our bowlers to bowl when the slog is on.
 
The "seniors" are afraid of some new guy playing well and stealing their spot, so they try to play every game as possible. WHats mysterious about this? :faf
 
Because wins in T20Is only thing which provides solace to Pakistani fans at the moment. If they don't play their full strength team they won't win those also.
 
T20s mostly scheduled towards the end of the tour. So it's time seniors take rest and give exposure to young ones.
 
We have players like Malik (20 years experience), Sarfraz, Hafeez, Hasan Ali, Amir regularly featuring in T20i matches. I'd even include Fakhar Zaman.

These cricketers already are playing the other formats regularly and have tons of experience as of now.

Compare that to a team like South Africa. No Steyn, Rabada, Amla, de Kock, even Faf has decided not to play the remaining 2 T20s.

They played a bowling attack that nobody had even heard of. Yet won. This is a fun format that nobody takes really "seriously" and uses it to test new players.

Why are we stuck with the likes of Malik even here? Why the board and selectors don't have any sort of visionary thinking?

Amir hafeez and sarfraz didn’t played this team
Fakhar Babar Imad Hassan shadab Faheem all have around 30 t20i. Asif Talat Shinwari Rizwan <20. The question is how do you define experience. De Kock hafeez got injured so both didn’t played.
Another question is what do these player do if they don’t play these series no domestic atm plus they play a lot less international cricket.
In my point Hassan should have played all Odis and tests rested in t20’s whereas Amir only t20i’s and leagues (4 overs easy). New bowlers should be kept away from these t20’s else they will turn amiresque.
 
When the only thing you're good at is "fun" cricket, it becomes serious for fans and our cricketers.
 
Although I agree that we play our top team most of the time if not every time and that should not be the case. We should play more youngsters to see how they do in international matches.

We are not the only team to do it, India also do it. If you look at the number of matches played over the last 3 years you will see how seriously they take T20I's.
 

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Hafeez Malik Talat Farhan Imad don't play tests. So if they are current limited overs only players why would they not play T20s. Its not if Pak plays lots and lots of international games. Our test bowlers Yasir and Abbas don't play T20s.
Same argument was used before and India New Zealnad and England selected very strong teams in their recent T20 series.
Having said all that we have not groomed enough players to throw in deep end for9 international against minnow teams.. Many good players are rotting away in domestics despite lack of international exposure.
 
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Although I agree that we play our top team most of the time if not every time and that should not be the case. We should play more youngsters to see how they do in international matches.

We are not the only team to do it, India also do it. If you look at the number of matches played over the last 3 years you will see how seriously they take T20I's.

India doesn't take T20s that seriously.

Rohit Sharma plays a lot as he is the de facto captain in T20s in Kohli's absence.

In the last 2 years, Rohit Sharma has played 28 T20Is (#3 highest) while Kohli (#32) has played only 17, even lesser than Manish Pandey (#19) and KDK (#24) which shows where the priorities of top players are. Bumrah has played even lesser T20s in the same time despite being India's best T20 bowler by the longest stretch.

Out of top 10 players who played most T20 matches in last 2 years, Pakistan has 7 - Sarfu, Babar, Malik, Fakhar, Hasan, Shadab, and Faheem. All first choice players. Which also shows that Pakistan doesnt' take T20s as a format to experiment..plays with a very settled team.
 
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In fact, if you look at last 1 year, Kohli has played only 10 out of 19 T20Is that India played. Soon it will be 10/22 as he is skipping T20Is against NZ too.

Kohli 10/22
Bumrah 8/22

If India take T20I seriously like Pakistan, why would they drop their two MVPs, including captain, for more than half the games?
 
India knows the only T20s that matter are IPL and to some extent the World t20s. And it wants it's best players in prime shape for the format that really matter, Test cricket.
 
It's because the senior players are worried that a new kid on the block might come in and perform well, thereby replacing them in the ODI or Test team.

You would definitely have seen the likes of Malik, Hafeez, Amir etc taking a break from these games if they were hot shots in international cricket.
 
Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Dhoni
Karthik
Pant
Pandya
Bhuvanesh
Bumrha
Kuldeep
Chahal

India plays its best XI in T20s.. At least we rest our best bowlers in the format :))
 
India plays its best XI in T20s

You are correct, for a change, although by mistake, else you always get confused with stats and facts.
These players do play all T20s, which is basically IPL, but skip T20Is as pointed out in post #12, and #13
 
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India play a lot more internationals than Pakistan so they need to rest some stars but not all for T20s
India also have better batting talent than Pakistan so even their second string batsmen are very good so India giving India good chance to win against most countries. It does not mean they do not take T20s seriously.
 
Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Dhoni
Karthik
Pant
Pandya
Bhuvanesh
Bumrha
Kuldeep
Chahal

India plays its best XI in T20s.. At least we rest our best bowlers in the format :))

India play different players for red ball and white ball . Of course players like Dhawan, Rohit, Kuldeep, Chahal are predominantly white ball cricketers so play T20Is regularly. India is ranked 1 or 2 in all cricket unlike Pakistan who are just above minnows in all cricket except T20I where other teams don't field their main players.
 
We have players like Malik (20 years experience), Sarfraz, Hafeez, Hasan Ali, Amir regularly featuring in T20i matches. I'd even include Fakhar Zaman.

These cricketers already are playing the other formats regularly and have tons of experience as of now.

Compare that to a team like South Africa. No Steyn, Rabada, Amla, de Kock, even Faf has decided not to play the remaining 2 T20s.

They played a bowling attack that nobody had even heard of. Yet won. This is a fun format that nobody takes really "seriously" and uses it to test new players.

Why are we stuck with the likes of Malik even here? Why the board and selectors don't have any sort of visionary thinking?

good question, i have also always wondered about this. Pakistan seems to be the only country where the selectors, players and fans treat t20 as a huge deal. The others only treat the t20 world cup with any seriousness.Could it be a case of the tail wagging the dog? as in the fans taking it so seriously that the selectors and players are forced to treat every t20 as seriously as a test match?
 
In fact, if you look at last 1 year, Kohli has played only 10 out of 19 T20Is that India played. Soon it will be 10/22 as he is skipping T20Is against NZ too.

Kohli 10/22
Bumrah 8/22

If India take T20I seriously like Pakistan, why would they drop their two MVPs, including captain, for more than half the games?
For the world cup
 
good question, i have also always wondered about this. Pakistan seems to be the only country where the selectors, players and fans treat t20 as a huge deal. The others only treat the t20 world cup with any seriousness.Could it be a case of the tail wagging the dog? as in the fans taking it so seriously that the selectors and players are forced to treat every t20 as seriously as a test match?

It's not the case. Pakistan fans are happy as they are winning T20Is against teams not fielding their best XI. They are not good enough to be a top team in ODI or Tests. The fans are taking T20I more seriously because they are winning.
 
Pakistani cricketers as a whole do not really know the concept of letting the youngsters play unless those youngsters are ATG prospects. This phenomena is not only demonstrated at Intl cricket standard but it relays all the way down to club cricket, maybe even park cricket amongst the Pakistani community.

Let me explain the psychology behind this. Most of these players arem

a) uneducated and cricket is their only source of income+leisure. Cricket becomes their life in this way so they must rely on this as much as they can, for as long as they can. You will find uncles at the age of 50-53 trying to cling on as much as they can blocking the path for a deserving cricketer at all levels of the game.

b) Most of these cricketers were not given the same chance to play a key role during their younger years and had to job to these 'seniors', therefore a trend continues where the youngster that was neglected eventually develops into a 'senior' and they must have their late adolescence as a cricketer now dominating the team's key roles. Whilst at the same time, rake in as much money as they can because there really is a struggle of a life outside cricket for people who have no qualifications or strong background to carry them forth.

Examples of this are clear and evident. Players like Hafeez, Malik, Kamran Akmal, Mohammad Sami were not really good enough as youngsters to have teams built around them as compared to the likes of Babar Azam and Amir. They always had to play second fiddle to those who were dependable and were actually good, hence when those good players clear out you then finally get the opportunity to stake a claim in the side's important roles.

As long as the PCB senior committee members are those that are politically affiliated to certain groups and parties, this trend will never, ever change. The way to go is to make a person who hits the age of 33 feel as isolated as possible and a self realisation must occur for the player to believe that his time is up. Players should be retiring at 36.
 
If we didn’t play full strength t20 team our rankings in this format would be mid-low tableb
 
Because we are blesses with a genius selector. whose priorities are ------------- no one knows.
 
Unless there are other sources of good income for older players, they will stick to their positions as leach. Would you leave a well-paying job for a younger person. Most people won’t.

England/Australia ex/old players have multiple income sources, as coaches even at their school level get paid well and there are commentaries and coaching assignment in other countries like Pakistan, India, Bangla, Zimbabwe etc.

India also has built multiple income streams for retired players, incl a very good BCCI pension that other countries can only dream about, highly paid coaching/media assignment, state/national awards that have lifetime monthly income and occasionally even movies made on them. They can also keep playing in lucrative IPL for 3-5 years after retirement. So a Ganguli or Gambhir don’t have to be leach for the position in national team.


If Malik retires today, he has to probably live on his Indian wife’s income, who too have retired but can still earn enough through coaching/media assignments to
Live comfortably. Hafeez probably does not have even this option.
 
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Market determines the product- PAK in general values T20 more than most regular cricket playing nations, may be only AFGs aside, and PCB is just using that market demand to make some quick bucks. I understand the rational of bringing “that” world XI or Jason Mo’s WIN to PAK, but didn’t understand why PAK should play it's possible best XI against them.

I read several reasons here, but not much convinced in any. It’s not that Hafeez, Malik selecting themselves non stop; it's not that Sarfraz is kept as Captain for non stop 2 years; it’s not that Amir, Hasan, Babar picking themselves for every series; it’s not ICC either that forces PAK to play 3 games T20I series and 2 games Test series ..... it’s PCB who values T20I more than anyone, hence PAK plays most numbers of T20I and selectors are instructed to pick the best possible (to their judgement) squad, then team management picks available best XI.
 
Here's an example.

Standard Bank Proteas captain, Faf du Plessis, has been rested for the last two KFC T20 Internationals (T20I) against Pakistan. David Miller has been appointed as the stand-in captain ahead of the second T20I at Bidvest Wanderers Stadium on Sunday. The Proteas hold a 1-0 lead following their six-run win in the opening match at PPC Newlands on Friday.

National Selection Panel convener, Linda Zondi explained the decision: “Giving David a leadership role is another way that we are broadening our leadership resources within our respective squads. David has a wealth of experience and is a well-respected figure within the Proteas environment. The last two matches will be an opportunity for us to grow potential leaders for the future.”
 
Pretty much all teams use T20 series to experiment their players. If you ask me Rohti/Dhawan should never play T20 unless it is world T20.
 
Pakistani cricketers as a whole do not really know the concept of letting the youngsters play unless those youngsters are ATG prospects. This phenomena is not only demonstrated at Intl cricket standard but it relays all the way down to club cricket, maybe even park cricket amongst the Pakistani community.

Let me explain the psychology behind this. Most of these players arem

a) uneducated and cricket is their only source of income+leisure. Cricket becomes their life in this way so they must rely on this as much as they can, for as long as they can. You will find uncles at the age of 50-53 trying to cling on as much as they can blocking the path for a deserving cricketer at all levels of the game.

b) Most of these cricketers were not given the same chance to play a key role during their younger years and had to job to these 'seniors', therefore a trend continues where the youngster that was neglected eventually develops into a 'senior' and they must have their late adolescence as a cricketer now dominating the team's key roles. Whilst at the same time, rake in as much money as they can because there really is a struggle of a life outside cricket for people who have no qualifications or strong background to carry them forth.

Examples of this are clear and evident. Players like Hafeez, Malik, Kamran Akmal, Mohammad Sami were not really good enough as youngsters to have teams built around them as compared to the likes of Babar Azam and Amir. They always had to play second fiddle to those who were dependable and were actually good, hence when those good players clear out you then finally get the opportunity to stake a claim in the side's important roles.

As long as the PCB senior committee members are those that are politically affiliated to certain groups and parties, this trend will never, ever change. The way to go is to make a person who hits the age of 33 feel as isolated as possible and a self realisation must occur for the player to believe that his time is up. Players should be retiring at 36.

Cricket isn’t their only source of income.

Most players have their own businesses, such as restaurants, farms, millionaire wives etc.
 
This is not entirely accurate. Pakistan doesn't over haul its entire playing eleven in the T20 format but the bulk of the youngsters are given their opportunities in this format
 
Cricket isn’t their only source of income.

Most players have their own businesses, such as restaurants, farms, millionaire wives etc.

You say that, you would be surprised its not always the case. Not everyone is as smart as Afridi or Waseem Akram. You only see the handful that have done well. Cricketers past the age of 45, especially FC cricketers, they dont all make it.
 
Unless there are other sources of good income for older players, they will stick to their positions as leach. Would you leave a well-paying job for a younger person. Most people won’t.

England/Australia ex/old players have multiple income sources, as coaches even at their school level get paid well and there are commentaries and coaching assignment in other countries like Pakistan, India, Bangla, Zimbabwe etc.

India also has built multiple income streams for retired players, incl a very good BCCI pension that other countries can only dream about, highly paid coaching/media assignment, state/national awards that have lifetime monthly income and occasionally even movies made on them. They can also keep playing in lucrative IPL for 3-5 years after retirement. So a Ganguli or Gambhir don’t have to be leach for the position in national team.


If Malik retires today, he has to probably live on his Indian wife’s income, who too have retired but can still earn enough through coaching/media assignments to
Live comfortably. Hafeez probably does not have even this option.

This pretty much nails it in the head. There’s multiple options to survive after cricket in other countries while Pakistan is still clueless. This is also why we have players like Misbah and Younis and even players before them like Akron and Inzamam played well into their 50’s. India has multiple roles they give their ex players whether it’s a media role or coaching or heck even a reality tv hosting job. The possibilities are endless.
 
We should do more to make sure that more youngsters get chances to play in this format.

We do select a lot of youngsters in this format but they all come in to bat late in the innings which sort of defeats the purpose.

Usually we have hafeez, Shoaib and Sarfraz in the top order and then we have youngsters coming in to bat in the end.

I would like to see some one like a Imad, Rizwan or Shadab to come in the top order in t20s to give them exposure. The seniors can take care of the hitting in the end.
 
Unless there are other sources of good income for older players, they will stick to their positions as leach. Would you leave a well-paying job for a younger person. Most people wonÂ’t.

England/Australia ex/old players have multiple income sources, as coaches even at their school level get paid well and there are commentaries and coaching assignment in other countries like Pakistan, India, Bangla, Zimbabwe etc.

India also has built multiple income streams for retired players, incl a very good BCCI pension that other countries can only dream about, highly paid coaching/media assignment, state/national awards that have lifetime monthly income and occasionally even movies made on them. They can also keep playing in lucrative IPL for 3-5 years after retirement. So a Ganguli or Gambhir donÂ’t have to be leach for the position in national team.


If Malik retires today, he has to probably live on his Indian wifeÂ’s income, who too have retired but can still earn enough through coaching/media assignments to
Live comfortably. Hafeez probably does not have even this option.

This “income statement” is the weakest reason of all, at least for top 30-35 players. No point giving examples from different markets/countries because the context is different- MJ still earns over $50mn/year from his endorsements after retiring almost 2 decades back, and a fade-away Tiger Woods earned over $35mn without hitting a single shot, that too after massive slash down of his endorsement value for scandals - that’s USA, you have to think in PAK context.

I had given this maths few times in past - once more, take Malik. At 38, he has been PAK regular for almost 20 years and has played over 400 games for PAK - at an minimum average of $2,000/game thatÂ’s close to $1 million or PKR 14 crore just in match fees. Add central contract, prize money, endorsement shares, tour fees ...., you can easily double that money at least - thatÂ’s over 30 crore just from PCB. He is playing non stop club cricket, earning from endorsements and other media sources which should be more than his PCB earnings. I take a rough estimation of 60-65 crore PKR - excluding tax, still it should be over 35 crore by the age of 38. And remember, these players are under highest benefit packages- absolute highest quality medical, travelling, accommodation; probably that covers family members as well. Then, they are insured under corporate package and they donÂ’t pay anything for their kits, trainings, most cases diets.

Next thing is, these players are earning at their early age - most cases in South Asia, a top doctor or engineer or lawyer... often doesnÂ’t even earn enough to run own family in luxury by the age of 35, unless he owns inherited properties. Unless these players blow their fortune for drugs, casinos & other cheap entertainments, by the age of 38, each one should have enough money to invest through secured portfolios for a luxurious retirement life at 40. I am sure Malik from his own income owns several apartments in Karachi, Lahore & Islamabad, from which income from rent should be enough not to depend on wife.

Cricketers from BD doesnÂ’t earn much more than PAK, and I know one U25 player from his last 7 years income owns 4 apartments, from which he earns over $3.5K/month as rent and the sale value of these apartments are increasing every year. This guy is cool headed coming from a very humble background, so instead of BMWs, he has spent his fortune in real estate. Taskin had just 3 years of glory - he owns a resultant in heart of Dhaka, which should earn him more than the salary of a bank EVP by now. Mo Rafique is absolute illiterate, one of 8 kids of a mother whose husband left her on street with 8 kids ... and Rafique didnÂ’t play in T20 era, earned minuscule from BCB compared to current bunch; and guy started FC career with borrowed kits - now he is financially secured with multiple flats, cars and being involved in a coaching career.... starting from streets, ended in Banani.

My point is not to boast about BD cricketers, rather to say that this financial security is absolutely rubbish excuse for Misbah to carry still now. May not be at Malik’s level, but even Anwar Ali has earned enough through his cricket career for a secured future. Obviously every man has to develop himself, learn new skills, work hard for his bread & butter. “Rajar bhandar” will be empty if you keep spending lavishly without filling the pocket - there are examples of several NBA, NFL stars going bankrupt within few few years of retirement, while Hakim Olajuwon’s net worth is now over half a billion, because guy didn’t waste money & after retirement spent 2 years for a diploma on real estate management- now he owns the largest Islamic real estate company in USA.

Average age of PAK team is officially 3-5 years older, only because of lack of vision by PCB and nepotism in selection - PCT shouldnÂ’t be a charity to ensure few selected bunch can change their car model, designer suits, Hermes belt, Gucci shoes, ray ban sheds ... every year. Same goes for domestic cricket at lower luxury scale....
 
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Unless there are other sources of good income for older players, they will stick to their positions as leach. Would you leave a well-paying job for a younger person. Most people won’t.

England/Australia ex/old players have multiple income sources, as coaches even at their school level get paid well and there are commentaries and coaching assignment in other countries like Pakistan, India, Bangla, Zimbabwe etc.

India also has built multiple income streams for retired players, incl a very good BCCI pension that other countries can only dream about, highly paid coaching/media assignment, state/national awards that have lifetime monthly income and occasionally even movies made on them. They can also keep playing in lucrative IPL for 3-5 years after retirement. So a Ganguli or Gambhir don’t have to be leach for the position in national team.


If Malik retires today, he has to probably live on his Indian wife’s income, who too have retired but can still earn enough through coaching/media assignments to
Live comfortably. Hafeez probably does not have even this option.

Sorry but I don't buy this 'cricket is their only income argument so thats why they play every match'. Take Malik as an example, he's married to a high profile sports personality. There's no way he would have married her or conversely her family would have agreed to the marriage if his only income was cricket, most sports careers have to end by the age of 40 due to physical burnout and theres no guarantee of coaching/commentary assignments after. These players have businesses/endorsements and other reliable sources of income on the side to ensure they can live comfortably till retirement in the 60s and beyond.
The argument that they're greedy I can buy easily, why would you pass up on the opportunity to earn more money by playing cricket in a corrupt system? It's easily done.
 
Unless there are other sources of good income for older players, they will stick to their positions as leach. Would you leave a well-paying job for a younger person. Most people won’t.

England/Australia ex/old players have multiple income sources, as coaches even at their school level get paid well and there are commentaries and coaching assignment in other countries like Pakistan, India, Bangla, Zimbabwe etc.

India also has built multiple income streams for retired players, incl a very good BCCI pension that other countries can only dream about, highly paid coaching/media assignment, state/national awards that have lifetime monthly income and occasionally even movies made on them. They can also keep playing in lucrative IPL for 3-5 years after retirement. So a Ganguli or Gambhir don’t have to be leach for the position in national team.


If Malik retires today, he has to probably live on his Indian wife’s income, who too have retired but can still earn enough through coaching/media assignments to
Live comfortably. Hafeez probably does not have even this option.

So Pakistan's national cricket team is basically a trust fund for the older cricketers, stated with Misbah, now I understand, thanks for explaining it.
 
Hold on a sec..I thought we discovered some of our youngsters through this format? talat,babar,shadab,faheem, even imad dont really play tests and sometimes dont even play PDI's..we have tried people like asif ali and shinwari in t20's first, then they have graduated to ODI's. What great production line do we have at the moment? also we would have the luxury of trying out different players if we could play at home often. Cost is a major reason too. and whats wrong with taking this format seriously? I wanna see them win everything if possible..
 
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Pakistan's XI for the first T20 had an average age of 26.

This is a young team that can play all 3 formats without any fitness issues, in comparison Indias team for the T20s against Australia was on average 27.
 
Pakistani cricketers as a whole do not really know the concept of letting the youngsters play unless those youngsters are ATG prospects. This phenomena is not only demonstrated at Intl cricket standard but it relays all the way down to club cricket, maybe even park cricket amongst the Pakistani community.

Let me explain the psychology behind this. Most of these players arem

a) uneducated and cricket is their only source of income+leisure. Cricket becomes their life in this way so they must rely on this as much as they can, for as long as they can. You will find uncles at the age of 50-53 trying to cling on as much as they can blocking the path for a deserving cricketer at all levels of the game.

b) Most of these cricketers were not given the same chance to play a key role during their younger years and had to job to these 'seniors', therefore a trend continues where the youngster that was neglected eventually develops into a 'senior' and they must have their late adolescence as a cricketer now dominating the team's key roles. Whilst at the same time, rake in as much money as they can because there really is a struggle of a life outside cricket for people who have no qualifications or strong background to carry them forth.

Examples of this are clear and evident. Players like Hafeez, Malik, Kamran Akmal, Mohammad Sami were not really good enough as youngsters to have teams built around them as compared to the likes of Babar Azam and Amir. They always had to play second fiddle to those who were dependable and were actually good, hence when those good players clear out you then finally get the opportunity to stake a claim in the side's important roles.

As long as the PCB senior committee members are those that are politically affiliated to certain groups and parties, this trend will never, ever change. The way to go is to make a person who hits the age of 33 feel as isolated as possible and a self realisation must occur for the player to believe that his time is up. Players should be retiring at 36.

I have always liked psychological point of view. They always have some truth in it.
 
Hold on a sec..I thought we discovered some of our youngsters through this format? talat,babar,shadab,faheem, even imad dont really play tests and sometimes dont even play PDI's..we have tried people like asif ali and shinwari in t20's first, then they have graduated to ODI's. What great production line do we have at the moment? also we would have the luxury of trying out different players if we could play at home often. Cost is a major reason too. and whats wrong with taking this format seriously? I wanna see them win everything if possible..

Whilst I largely agree with what you're saying, I find it astonishing that we haven't tried out a youngster to captain the T20 side, at least in Safaraz's absence...

How will we ever know if the likes of Babar et al are ay good at captaincy until we actually try them out and what better format to try them in then the T20 format?

I do find it strange that we have a couple of 40 year olds (or almost 40 year olds) in ODI's let alone in still playing in T20's.
 
Are you serious? Morgan, root, stokes, butler, kohli, dhawan, jadeja, Taylor, willing son, faf, Miller, and so on and so forth all regularly play for their teams. I could include even more for other sides.

Meanwhile Pakistan have teenagers and player sin their early 20 s.

Some of you have lost the plot.
 
It's quite disappointing honestly, Pakistan should at least try a different captain in T20Is.
 
Shoaib Malik is probably a wrong example as he comes from a very rich family, just like Sania herself. He has wealth and probably some rental income.

Even if a senior player has saved decently (say a million dollar) by 35, he will not be so happy resigning without a regular monthly income . Not many of us will like to dip into our savings for next 50 years without any new source.


Lack of Post-retirement monthly income (not savings) is one main reason, not sole one, why Hafeez will not retire even if he has 1-2 million dollars saved. Of course there are other reasons too- selfishness, weak sense of national/team interest, over-estimating own ability even at 45 etc.

MJ and other artists/singers/writers will have income streams even after their death as their royalty will last next many decades.

Tiger Woods is still a top 30 player in the world’s richest game and remains the greatest ever golfer. Like Mohammad Ali, Sachin, Pele, Tiger will have enough regular income till he lives. People/brands/companies will pay him just to appear for 30 minutes and give gyan.


In China, even Badminton and TT players are millionaires. Similarly Saina, Sindhu all have multiple BMW/Mercedes in India. Our company in BLR paid Saina 20 Lakh just to appear for 1 hour for a motivational talk.

It’s for Pakistan to create such income channels for players so they don’t go after the same income source (playing for the national team) till 60.
 
My assessment is the lack of alternative lucrative options outside Cricket. How much do the Pakistani news channels, sports channels pay to the ex players for commenting and are these gigs long term?

Coaching assignments via PCB are unstable. This is only applicable to the very best players. No one likes to retire and dip into their savings no matter how much they have saved. It takes one bag business, investment decision or dishonest advisors to wipe everything out.

It is no surprise that Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib go to Indian broadcasters as they pay them top dollar.

Ask anyone on the planet, even the most well off, retirement is very scary. I have seen many people decline health wise after retirement
 
Why are people undermining T20s? They're the most popular form of cricket and teams need to take them seriously.

Sure, Pakistan is a mediocre test/ODI team and need to improve on that front. But there's nothing wrong with playing full strength teams in T20s.
 
India play a lot more internationals than Pakistan so they need to rest some stars but not all for T20s
India also have better batting talent than Pakistan so even their second string batsmen are very good so India giving India good chance to win against most countries. It does not mean they do not take T20s seriously.

I keep hearing the names of good Pakistani batsmen like Shakeel and Alam who never have a chance at the international level. T20Is are a good option for them to be given a chance to show their capabilities.
 
Why are people undermining T20s? They're the most popular form of cricket and teams need to take them seriously.

Sure, Pakistan is a mediocre test/ODI team and need to improve on that front. But there's nothing wrong with playing full strength teams in T20s.

personally T20 belongs to league cricket more than internationals. IPL, BBL even Bangladesh league is more popular than international T20s besides world T20s. It gives perfect opportunity to test youngsters. It gives licens to express themselves without thinking too much. India probably will rest a lot of people as well.
 
One word - sponsorships.

Pakistan is No.1 in T20 cricket and has dominated for the past 2 years. The public takes pride in the record and the viewership is high compared to ODIs where Pak is a mid table team. There is not much viewership for test cricket. So, Pakistan has to play their strongest team to keep the wins going and thereby the money flowing. I have no issues with teams playing their best players. After all, it's an international game and winning matters. I have issue with the selection though. Please don't tell me Malik is one of the best T20 batsmen in Pakistan.
 
Also these "experienced" players are playing internationals to keep their PSL spots and for other T20 leagues. Irony considering it should be the other way around
 
Unless there are other sources of good income for older players, they will stick to their positions as leach. Would you leave a well-paying job for a younger person. Most people won’t.

England/Australia ex/old players have multiple income sources, as coaches even at their school level get paid well and there are commentaries and coaching assignment in other countries like Pakistan, India, Bangla, Zimbabwe etc.

India also has built multiple income streams for retired players, incl a very good BCCI pension that other countries can only dream about, highly paid coaching/media assignment, state/national awards that have lifetime monthly income and occasionally even movies made on them. They can also keep playing in lucrative IPL for 3-5 years after retirement. So a Ganguli or Gambhir don’t have to be leach for the position in national team.


If Malik retires today, he has to probably live on his Indian wife’s income, who too have retired but can still earn enough through coaching/media assignments to
Live comfortably. Hafeez probably does not have even this option.
Rubbish.

As [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] has rightfully pointed out, this is the weakest argument possible for the question posed in the OP. Malik has been playing cricket for 18 years now, and Hafeez has done it for 15 years.

I can tell you Malik has a pretty solid property portfolio in different parts of the world, and I'm sure Hafeez is smart enough to be successful in-terms of investments too. Furthermore, these two would actually earn more by NOT playing for Pakistan as pretty much every other league will pick them up as overseas players. Add to that the various endorsements, and I doubt financial security is the reason they hang on to a place in the national team.

Please don't pass off Pakistan as some run down country, where sportsmen cannot earn enough money even after playing for 10+ years. Context is important and your post has completely ignored that.
 
Also these "experienced" players are playing internationals to keep their PSL spots and for other T20 leagues. Irony considering it should be the other way around

It will never be other way around. Money you make in IPL >>>>> Money you make in international. KL Rahul is 11 crore richer in this year IPL auction despite going through horrendous international form.
 
It will never be other way around. Money you make in IPL >>>>> Money you make in international. KL Rahul is 11 crore richer in this year IPL auction despite going through horrendous international form.

KL Rahul is the international team because of his IPL exploits. Bumrah too. Domestic leagues are and should be the launch pad for international games. Fakhar, Shadab, Asif, Talat are in the team because of PSL. Look at Malik. He has been pathetic in PSL. He even lost his captaincy. He is saving his PSL spot by keeping his international spot. How can you not select a Pakistan National team player in PSL? That's what he wants teams to think.
 
Pakistani isn't the only country that plays full strength squad.

/thread
 
Let’s all be honest here. Whatever investments Malik or Hafeez may seem to have outside cricket it will be peanuts compared to someone like Rahul who just got 11crore to play in the ipl this year and this isn’t counting the other endorsement Rahul has. In Pakistan odi and t-20 cricket is their only bread and butter for players like Malik and Hafeez. Case in point why pcb had to kick players like Afridi, Misbah , Younis out , well after they were in their prime.
 
I agree we take T20s way too seriously. We could have tries another back up keeper in all these T20 series. Also could have tried more younger bowlers instead of playing Hasan and Amir in every series.

Every team will at least try 1 or 2 new players in T20 bilaterals. That tells you it's not serious cricket.

The only T20s that matter are the World T20 matches.
 
I don't know why Pakistan field their full-strength sides but other teams use T20i as an opportunity to blood some youngsters in. It can offer them a taste of Int'l cricket and see how they cope in pressure situations. It can be perfect breeding ground for upcoming players so Pakistan Cricket are missing a trick by not offering new comers a chance in this format, even if it comes at the expense of copping few loses.

Also, it remains the least important format unless its a WC year. Given T20WC is next year expect big teams to play full strength side in Early 2020.
 
We have players like Malik (20 years experience), Sarfraz, Hafeez, Hasan Ali, Amir regularly featuring in T20i matches. I'd even include Fakhar Zaman.

These cricketers already are playing the other formats regularly and have tons of experience as of now.

Compare that to a team like South Africa. No Steyn, Rabada, Amla, de Kock, even Faf has decided not to play the remaining 2 T20s.

They played a bowling attack that nobody had even heard of. Yet won. This is a fun format that nobody takes really "seriously" and uses it to test new players.

Why are we stuck with the likes of Malik even here? Why the board and selectors don't have any sort of visionary thinking?

I am just waiting for you to reply to my comment. :)
 
Are you serious? Morgan, root, stokes, butler, kohli, dhawan, jadeja, Taylor, willing son, faf, Miller, and so on and so forth all regularly play for their teams. I could include even more for other sides.

Meanwhile Pakistan have teenagers and player sin their early 20 s.

Some of you have lost the plot.
[MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION]

still waiting :)
 
I am just waiting for you to reply to my comment. :)

Your assumptions are mostly wrong, and those players haven't stuck to the team like our full strength/experienced side has.

Besides, England and other top teams have the best supply of upcoming talent right now, and are much higher ranked in the other 2 important formats. Still test out new players.

Quite a few replies above but here's another one that should satisfy you:



India doesn't take T20s that seriously.

Rohit Sharma plays a lot as he is the de facto captain in T20s in Kohli's absence.

In the last 2 years, Rohit Sharma has played 28 T20Is (#3 highest) while Kohli (#32) has played only 17, even lesser than Manish Pandey (#19) and KDK (#24) which shows where the priorities of top players are. Bumrah has played even lesser T20s in the same time despite being India's best T20 bowler by the longest stretch.

Out of top 10 players who played most T20 matches in last 2 years, Pakistan has 7 - Sarfu, Babar, Malik, Fakhar, Hasan, Shadab, and Faheem. All first choice players. Which also shows that Pakistan doesnt' take T20s as a format to experiment..plays with a very settled team.
 
Because we still have not evolved as a cricketing nation and carry 90s mentality in just about everything, including selection.
 
Why are people undermining T20s? They're the most popular form of cricket and teams need to take them seriously.

Sure, Pakistan is a mediocre test/ODI team and need to improve on that front. But there's nothing wrong with playing full strength teams in T20s.

T20s are most popular, not T20Is. Huge difference. No team except Pak and the minnows (not even WI) takes T20Is seriously. T20 leagues are completely different matter.
 
Your assumptions are mostly wrong, and those players haven't stuck to the team like our full strength/experienced side has.

Besides, England and other top teams have the best supply of upcoming talent right now, and are much higher ranked in the other 2 important formats. Still test out new players.

Quite a few replies above but here's another one that should satisfy you:

I have not made any assumptions. If we're going to talk about Kohli, then of the 28 T20 internationals India have played in the last 2 year period, Kohli has played 20 T20 matches. He has missed 8 matches, partly due to injury at one stage and then being rotated out of the side when it came to certain opponents. To put it as plainly as possible, he has played 71% of all India's T20 matches.

Pakistan have played 26 T20 internationals in the same time period, now, if we look at Amir, one of Pakistan's top cricketers and easily their biggest current name, he has only played 10 T20 matches, that is less than 50%. In which time we have seen two teenage debutants and several players in their early twenties.

In fact, if we look at the most recent Pakistan side to play a T20 game, 9 of the starting 11 were aged under 30, 5 of whom were 25 or under. Then you have players like Asif Ali, Talat, Shadab, Shinwari, Shaheen (bench) and Rizwan with barely any time in the international game, with four of them not even being regulars in the international side.

Your claim and thread is bogus, unless you can prove what I have said wrong.
 
Heck, they even played a full strength squad against a Zimbabwe C side
 
Heck, they even played a full strength squad against a Zimbabwe C side

Now it makes sense.

Even with this full strength side they're finding it difficult against a nobody SA team, bowlers nobody has heard of!
 
Why didn't we try players like Zafar Gohar and Saud Shakeel in the T20I series vs SA?

We are supposed to be preparing for the world cup and need to test all the potential options before that.

Mickey generally wants to keep the same squad which is fine for ODIs and Tests but atleast try some new faces in T20s.

Shadab could have been easily rested and could have worked on few of his issues at national academy while at the same time we could have tested a decent spinner like Zafar Gohar or Mohammad Irfan jnr.

Same is the case with Malik, why do we still keep playing Malik and Hafeez in T20s? Saud Shakeel or any other young emerging middle order batsmen should have been tried before the world cup.

Hassan could have been rested as well for Waqas Maqsood or someone like Amad Butt, Ahmed Bashir etc.

I dont know why selection comitee and Mickey are so shy of testing some upcoming cricketers.

Is it just bcz they haven’t performed in PSL or played a lot of PSL matches?
 
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Because the selectors are clueless and the seniors like Shoaib and Hafeez don’t want to step aside. I remember during world t2007 Indian seniors in the Indian side like ganguly, sachin and Rahul who were still in their prime humbly stepped aside as they just didn’t want to play and wanted to give Indian youngsters a chance to play . The result of what happened is there for all to see. Whereas Pakistan carried on with their selfish oldies . It continues to be a vicious cycle.
 
We play our full strength team for no reason. What do we learn from Malik and Hafeez scoring? I don't understand why we don't try out new players in these T20s.

Yes it's a nice run, but what would your rather improve in tests and ODIs or win meangliness bilateral T20s that no one will remember in 5 years ?
 
We play our full strength team for no reason. What do we learn from Malik and Hafeez scoring? I don't understand why we don't try out new players in these T20s.

Yes it's a nice run, but what would your rather improve in tests and ODIs or win meangliness bilateral T20s that no one will remember in 5 years ?

I haven't seen dale steyn play t20is for a while. New people are being given their caps instead of the senior. That is what t20is are for to be honest. Giving exposure to young talent.
 
I haven't seen dale steyn play t20is for a while. New people are being given their caps instead of the senior. That is what t20is are for to be honest. Giving exposure to young talent.

Exactly. Tahir also wasn't playing today because they want to test Shamsi. Loads of other examples as well.
 
Because that would be the logical and responsible thing to do, and the PCB is anything but
 
Tbf i don't think Saud is a T20 player. I don't think he would be different to the current players. You just wish Pak would try new players though.
 
Tbf i don't think Saud is a T20 player. I don't think he would be different to the current players. You just wish Pak would try new players though.

You are right but atleast T20 will be able to show his temperament and overall pressure handling. He could have tried 1 down and Talat could have been pushed 2 down.

And yes not only Saud but any player who the selection comitee thinks might be a good player for LOIs.
 
You are right but atleast T20 will be able to show his temperament and overall pressure handling. He could have tried 1 down and Talat could have been pushed 2 down.

And yes not only Saud but any player who the selection comitee thinks might be a good player for LOIs.

I would recall Hammad Azam if he has a good PSL. But play him as a lower order batsman. He had shown in the recent National T20 that he was a quality finisher. Others like Badar should be in consideration also.
 
I would recall Hammad Azam if he has a good PSL. But play him as a lower order batsman. He had shown in the recent National T20 that he was a quality finisher. Others like Badar should be in consideration also.

Unfortunately we didnt give Hammad anywhere near as many oppurtunities at international level as we have given many others.

One of the players which we were unable to develop unfortunately. I remember he was once considered replacement of Razzaq. Lets hope he produce the goods in PSL as other than PSL we have rarely seen a player getting selected. Abbas, Imam and Usman Salahuddiin are exceptions.
 
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