Why is Pakistan the only country that plays full strength, experienced teams in T20Is?

[Pete Rose]

T20s are most popular, not T20Is. Huge difference. No team except Pak and the minnows (not even WI) takes T20Is seriously. T20 leagues are completely different matter.

this is largely right...if pakistan think they are some hot team in t20, they are in for a rude shock when the t20 world cup comes around. thats when a lot of these teams will put their first choice, motivated players in the line up.

 

[Kroll]

The bulk of our players are T20 level hence it's actually an upgrade for them if they play other formats and not the other way round.

 

[Hawkeye]

Pretty clear now.

We can only win if we're playing our premier, A-choice cricketers in the fun T20 format.

Today Amir was brought in and our luck changed, he completely changed the SA trajectory.

 

[Cric1234]

Pretty clear now.

We can only win if we're playing our premier, A-choice cricketers in the fun T20 format.

Today Amir was brought in and our luck changed, he completely changed the SA trajectory.

He had an impact but the match was lost in the first 6 overs due to good bowling from Imad and Shaheen who played all 3 games it's almost certain he would've done better than Shinwari in the last match though.

 

[gazza619]

I am of the opinion that the T20 squad should be totally different to ODI squad.

 

[Oligochaetes]

I am of the opinion that the T20 squad should be totally different to ODI squad.

Need a bigger talent pool for that.

I suspect the players are playing all games to ensure they stay match fit. Once the Wc is done we might see new players in the squad.

 

[barah_admi]

So India just fielded a side with 390 t20 internationals under their belts...care to explain that one?

 

[JaDed]

So India just fielded a side with 390 t20 internationals under their belts...care to explain that one?

Is it first choice is the question.. are you saying that is our first choice T20 team?

 

[barah_admi]

Is it first choice is the question.. are you saying that is our first choice T20 team?

First choice, second choice, experience, full strength, you all keep moving the goal posts. Ok, apart from Kohli, who else would be in a first choice line up? Possibly Bumrah? How many more?

Pakistan also did not play a side including Amir, they haven't played a guy who averaged 60+ plus in ODIs, they havent had the chance to play guys like Raees, Hasan Ali has been rotated in and out. I mean I oculd go on all day and you could all keep moving the goal posts.

Bottom line is, Pakistan are not the only side who field strong or relatively strong T20 sides.

Actually, what's most laughable is, only Malik is grossly experienced, the rest are guys who not nly have played much, much fewer games but are either teenagers or in their early 20s.

The least people like you can do is acknowledge that and move on.

 

[Sachin136]

So India just fielded a side with 390 t20 internationals under their belts...care to explain that one?

Do you not understand the difference between "full strength" (as mentioned in the title) and "experienced"?

 

[jnaveen1980]

So India just fielded a side with 390 t20 internationals under their belts...care to explain that one?

So leaving out Babar Azam and two other certain first choices will still be comsisdered as full strength?

 

[jnaveen1980]

First choice, second choice, experience, full strength, you all keep moving the goal posts. Ok, apart from Kohli, who else would be in a first choice line up? Possibly Bumrah? How many more?

Pakistan also did not play a side including Amir, they haven't played a guy who averaged 60+ plus in ODIs, they havent had the chance to play guys like Raees, Hasan Ali has been rotated in and out. I mean I oculd go on all day and you could all keep moving the goal posts.

Bottom line is, Pakistan are not the only side who field strong or relatively strong T20 sides.

Actually, what's most laughable is, only Malik is grossly experienced, the rest are guys who not nly have played much, much fewer games but are either teenagers or in their early 20s.

The least people like you can do is acknowledge that and move on.

Amir was left out because of too much cricket? Lol India never takes t20 bilateral seriously. You cannot assume this is thefirstchoice

 

[Saj]

And on the other hand.......

Thursday, 07 February 2019

Cricket South Africa (CSA) head: cricket pathways, Corrie van Zyl, says the results of the national body’s development programmes are offering him plenty of encouragement after some of their latest graduates made inspiring debuts against Pakistan over the past week.

Janneman Malan and Lutho Sipamla both debuted in the three-match KFC T20 International Series against Pakistan, which concluded on Wednesday with the Standard Bank Proteas running out 2-1 winners.

Both played two games each, opener Malan making scores of 33 and 2, with paceman Sipamla nabbing none for 23 and one for 25.

“It’s a definite indication that the pipeline is working and is producing the players,” Van Zyl said. “At the end of the day it also places the pool of players that we can expose at international level in a positive light.

“That’s ultimately the objective of the pipeline, to produce international Protea players; not just Protea players, but those that are successful.

“It’s pleasing to see that they don’t just make it into the squad, but they’re also performing when they are given their opportunity. That’s the most important part of it.”

The pair were also some of the stand-out names during the inaugural Mzansi Super League (MSL) with 22-year-old Malan ending sixth on the batting charts with 305 runs as his side the Cape Town Blitz ended as runners-up.

Sipamla, who is just 20, was the second highest wicket-taker with 16 wickets for the Tshwane Spartans.

Van Zyl said the MSL T20 was a good platform for these players and praised them for making a name for themselves during the November-December spectacle.

“The Mzansi Super League was a wonderful platform for these players to show their skill set,” he added. “Both Lutho and Janneman have gone through the structures of the pipeline.

“We have known about these players for a long time, but the fans and the public only got to know them through the Mzansi Super League and that what’s the league was also there for.

“It was a fantastic opportunity in a very high standard competition to showcase what they could do. And they’ve done well there, which went a long way to show that they have the potential to do well on the highest stage.

“The Mzansi Super League gave them this opportunity to show what sort of talent the country is producing via our CSA pipeline.”

Both players are set to now feature for their franchises in the Momentum One-Day Cup 50-over competition starting on Friday.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Amir was left out because of too much cricket? Lol India never takes t20 bilateral seriously. You cannot assume this is thefirstchoice

What other reason could be there, considering his record?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Some of the pak fans got the gist of this thread lol some have no clue

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...vs-pakistan-1st-t20i-pak-in-ire-eng-scot-2018

Look at this match you got Fakhar Zaman Babar Azam Malik complete team against whom ? Scotland. You really think India would field such a side against them? Check the team that India fielded against Afghanistan in Asia cup. India leaves out few star players against lesser opponents . Pakistan side goes with full strength every t20 series. India even rest players for ODI series where you need experience.

 

[PakPremi]

Some of the pak fans got the gist of this thread lol some have no clue

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...vs-pakistan-1st-t20i-pak-in-ire-eng-scot-2018

Look at this match you got Fakhar Zaman Babar Azam Malik complete team against whom ? Scotland. You really think India would field such a side against them? Check the team that India fielded against Afghanistan in Asia cup. India leaves out few star payers against lesser opponents . Pakistan side goes with full strength every t20 series. India even rest players for ODI series where you need experience.

I think you and many others need to get the gist here. Comparing a team like Pakistan who play limited matches outside UAE, and with limited talent pool to India, who have lots of well groomed specifically batsmen. Pak players do not even play IPL which is high pressure league with lots of top international players. So if Pak will not play likes of Fakhar, Babar (both are still relatively raw) then who are we going to play. Having said that Pak have played lots of new players in past two years.
As for Malik he does not play tests., so he is one of few seniors Pak play to lend their experience to others. Forget Scotland when Pak were playing Aus and New Zealand some posters were saying why Pak playing their A team in T20s but are now defending I dia playing team full of seniors and largely their A team players.

 

[barah_admi]

Amir was left out because of too much cricket? Lol India never takes t20 bilateral seriously. You cannot assume this is thefirstchoice

I did not give any reason as to why Amir did not play, where did you get that from?

Anyway, you keep spouting India doesn ot that t20 bilaterals seriously, fine, let's say I believe you. Now, Pakistan must take them even less seriously by playing younger players and overall less experienced. Again your argument keeps supporting the point I am making.

 

[barah_admi]

Do you not understand the difference between "full strength" (as mentioned in the title) and "experienced"?

The title of the thread also mentions experience, and one of the key elements of a strong side is its experience. India just played some of india's best limited overs players of the decade in their XI (Sharma, Dhoni and Dhawan) whereas Pakistan has guys aged 18, 20, 22 and 24 with less than 50 T20 internationals to their names.

I am sure you fully understand my point, the problem is, you're ashamed that side could not beat the NZ side.

Thanks for trying though.

 

[barah_admi]

Some of the pak fans got the gist of this thread lol some have no clue

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...vs-pakistan-1st-t20i-pak-in-ire-eng-scot-2018

Look at this match you got Fakhar Zaman Babar Azam Malik complete team against whom ? Scotland. You really think India would field such a side against them? Check the team that India fielded against Afghanistan in Asia cup. India leaves out few star players against lesser opponents . Pakistan side goes with full strength every t20 series. India even rest players for ODI series where you need experience.

Zaman who was only in his second year of cricket? Talat who was just starting out and still isnt a regular? Yes, oh my such a strong team, I cant get my head around it.

India, however, in a 50 over match played a side with Rahul, Karthik, Dhoni...two of those guys made their debuts in the last decade.

Oh really, I am done, I feel bad consistently exposing all the lies floating around here.

 

[Kroll]

And we still managed to lose the series to a side comprising players of the calibre of the likes of Dala's, Sipamla's, Shamsi's...

 

[PakPremi]

And we still managed to lose the series to a side comprising players of the calibre of the likes of Dala's, Sipamla's, Shamsi's...

The debate is not about how well we played, they were very close matches the ones we lost, and the one we won was by big margin. We lost because we gave exposures to new players such as Shinwari who lost us the match.

 

[gazza619]

Need a bigger talent pool for that.

I suspect the players are playing all games to ensure they stay match fit. Once the Wc is done we might see new players in the squad.

We have loads of players. I can think of at least 3 squads and i dont even follow our domestic cricket much...

 

[jnaveen1980]

Zaman who was only in his second year of cricket? Talat who was just starting out and still isnt a regular? Yes, oh my such a strong team, I cant get my head around it.

India, however, in a 50 over match played a side with Rahul, Karthik, Dhoni...two of those guys made their debuts in the last decade.

Oh really, I am done, I feel bad consistently exposing all the lies floating around here.

In the last 2 years 32 T20s played by Pakistan. Shadab played all 32. Babarz played 25, Fakhar played 29, Malik 28, Sarfraz 29, Ashraf 25 Hasan Ali 26.


In India's case outof 31 Kohli played 17, Kuldeep 17, Bumrah 16, Pandya 17, Kumar 19. Highest by Rohit 29 Chahal(22) and Dhawan(25). Pandey (20). For the record India shuffled so much there is nothing such as "settled side" for India in the T20.

Pakistan always almost field the same XI bar few changes here and there unlike other teams who make a complete overhaul. Even the changes Pakistan that make are not because they want to "try out" something. You are kinda stuck with Indian team. Just expand your view. Check the SA team. NZ team. They all experiment.

 

[a_tahir]

In the last 2 years 32 T20s played by Pakistan. Shadab played all 32. Babarz played 25, Fakhar played 29, Malik 28, Sarfraz 29, Ashraf 25 Hasan Ali 26.


In India's case outof 31 Kohli played 17, Kuldeep 17, Bumrah 16, Pandya 17, Kumar 19. Highest by Rohit 29 Chahal(22) and Dhawan(25). Pandey (20). For the record India shuffled so much there is nothing such as "settled side" for India in the T20.

Pakistan always almost field the same XI bar few changes here and there unlike other teams who make a complete overhaul. Even the changes Pakistan that make are not because they want to "try out" something. You are kinda stuck with Indian team. Just expand your view. Check the SA team. NZ team. They all experiment.

First try to understand what he said.
He said that the pakistani team is new, they can't be rested as they've only been playing for around 2 years.
However, players like kohli, dhawan, kumar have been playing for a longer time so they are being rested.
So in other words, he's saying the pak team is new themselves how are they supposed to experiment with other players if their own players are new.

 

[jnaveen1980]

First try to understand what he said.
He said that the pakistani team is new, they can't be rested as they've only been playing for around 2 years.
However, players like kohli, dhawan, kumar have been playing for a longer time so they are being rested.
So in other words, he's saying the pak team is new themselves how are they supposed to experiment with other players if their own players are new.

He didn't say that except in one post. If he had given that reason upfront this debate would not have existed. Instead he was trying to deflect.I was only addressing his deflection that "other teams also do the same" which is clearly not the case. Only BD and Afghanistan do due to lack of backup. I don't know about your bench strenght or experience fully. Since the thread was started by a pak fan you may want to convince him. In this very thread some say Pakistan has a lot more talent. So you may want to convince them. It is entirely the prerogative of your team to pick the desired playing XI. But major teams use this as experiment. One main reaoson is leagues are way more popular than international T20.India will pick their T20 squad based on their performance in IPL. Not domestic T20 league or Not international T20 matches. It serves no purpose other than producing some money.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not long ago people were complaining about these 7 match ODI series, 5 match ODI series. Adding these T20 as well mean it is a clear overkill for players from some countries when you consider lot of them take part in leagues. India, England, Australia play 5 test series. It gives adequate rest for players which will help them prolong their careers. It is important to rotate the players and we are okay with that looking at the bigger picture. NO big deal if we lose a series.

 

[Haripotter]

Players need to be fresh and rearing to go during WC19 so many teams are resting their best bowlers and batsman for the T20s as it's not the most important format before the WC .
I'm shell shocked that Pakistan team is ready to risk burning out players fatigue just to keep the winning ways in T20s.

This may be for the fact that they don't have any hopes of Pakistan making to the SEMIS

 

[PakPremi]

Players need to be fresh and rearing to go during WC19 so many teams are resting their best bowlers and batsman for the T20s as it's not the most important format before the WC .
I'm shell shocked that Pakistan team is ready to risk burning out players fatigue just to keep the winning ways in T20s.

This may be for the fact that they don't have any hopes of Pakistan making to the SEMIS

Lot of Pak players who play T20s either do not play tests at all or are not selected for all matches. So no burn out. As I said before our T20 plays, bar Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz, are relatively new in international arena so need all the exposure.

 

[PakPremi]

I see India has again selected team full of oldies and regulars in the meaningless T20 tamasha. Many of these would be selected for world cup so should avoid burn out.

 

[Rahul1]

I see India has again selected team full of oldies and regulars in the meaningless T20 tamasha. Many of these would be selected for world cup so should avoid burn out.

Last i checked Kohli, Bumrah, Kuldeep and Shami are all rested.

 

[JattMaula]

Last i checked Kohli, Bumrah, Kuldeep and Shami are all rested.

These four are regular 3 format players for India. It makes sense to leave them out in least important matches.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Last i checked Kohli, Bumrah, Kuldeep and Shami are all rested.

Add Kedar Jadhav to this

 

[jnaveen1980]

I see India has again selected team full of oldies and regulars in the meaningless T20 tamasha. Many of these would be selected for world cup so should avoid burn out.

They are selected mainly because they are playing in world cup. India has only 5 ODIs before world cup. So they were picked here to get used to some limited over exposure. Guys like Dhoni doesn't play domestic. Check the T20 record of KL Rahul. Averaging 43 at a strike rate of 148.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Vijay Shankar at 3 sums it up for me. There are atleast 15 at 3 better than him in India.

 

[topspin]

Mixture of reasons:

1. Small team mentality which is visible from their OTT celebrations in such meaningless encounters. Fan base also follows suit with their heads in the clouds over the no.1 ranking

2. Insecure players however its the captain and management who are to blame for lacking the backbone to do

3. No vision for the future from the think tank - you can only blame the insecurity and the lack of backbone from the management up to a certain point however when we see time and time again no new blood brought in and the exclusion of more second team players in the games against the minnows such as Zimbabwe, Ireland and Scotland, alarm bells should be ringing! As [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] mentioned quite rightly, Pakistan reaps no benefits of playing seniors such as Hafeez and Malik in the side.

 

[latecut]

The only T20 matches that BCCI and Indian players take seriously are IPL matches. The T20 international teams that India fields are full strength only at T20 world cup. In other T20 internationals, like at series going on in New Zealand at present, the players are obscure even for Indian cricket fans. These matches are used to test newcomers. But even they manage to win more than they lose.

 

[PakPremi]

Mixture of reasons:

1. Small team mentality which is visible from their OTT celebrations in such meaningless encounters. Fan base also follows suit with their heads in the clouds over the no.1 ranking

2. Insecure players however its the captain and management who are to blame for lacking the backbone to do

3. No vision for the future from the think tank - you can only blame the insecurity and the lack of backbone from the management up to a certain point however when we see time and time again no new blood brought in and the exclusion of more second team players in the games against the minnows such as Zimbabwe, Ireland and Scotland, alarm bells should be ringing! As [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] mentioned quite rightly, Pakistan reaps no benefits of playing seniors such as Hafeez and Malik in the side.

What benefit is India getting playing Dhoni, Dhawan and Karthik ?
India is playing lots of seniors and regulars in their team with excuse form fans of world cup preparation. These players are already prepared and well cooked.
You completed ignored all arguments in various threads on this matter.
Go and read Arthur thread and then you may understand Pak logic and reasoning, though I am too of an opinion that more Pak players need to be given chances.

 

[PakPremi]

Mixture of reasons:

1. Small team mentality which is visible from their OTT celebrations in such meaningless encounters. Fan base also follows suit with their heads in the clouds over the no.1 ranking

2. Insecure players however its the captain and management who are to blame for lacking the backbone to do

3. No vision for the future from the think tank - you can only blame the insecurity and the lack of backbone from the management up to a certain point however when we see time and time again no new blood brought in and the exclusion of more second team players in the games against the minnows such as Zimbabwe, Ireland and Scotland, alarm bells should be ringing! As [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] mentioned quite rightly, Pakistan reaps no benefits of playing seniors such as Hafeez and Malik in the side.

What benefit is India getting playing Dhoni, Dhawan and Karthik against NZ B or C team?
India is playing lots of seniors and regulars in their team with excuse form fans of world cup preparation. These players are already prepared and well cooked.
You completed ignored all arguments in various threads on this matter.
Go and read Arthur thread and then you may understand Pak logic and reasoning, though I am too of an opinion that more Pak players need to be given chances.

 

[barah_admi]

The debate is not about how well we played, they were very close matches the ones we lost, and the one we won was by big margin. We lost because we gave exposures to new players such as Shinwari who lost us the match.

First try to understand what he said.
He said that the pakistani team is new, they can't be rested as they've only been playing for around 2 years.
However, players like kohli, dhawan, kumar have been playing for a longer time so they are being rested.
So in other words, he's saying the pak team is new themselves how are they supposed to experiment with other players if their own players are new.

I think they want Pakistan to have 11 debutants every match.

 

[latecut]

T20 is a format that is there for hit and giggles, and as BCCI has shown, for making money by arranging tamasha matches. Real cricket is test cricket and real limited over cricket is ODI. Most cricket boards realise that and so they use international T20 international for trying out new players. Boards like BCCI or South Africa Board have no reason to look up to PCB and emulate them as far as T20 internationals are concerned.

 

[PakPremi]

T20 is a format that is there for hit and giggles, and as BCCI has shown, for making money by arranging tamasha matches. Real cricket is test cricket and real limited over cricket is ODI. Most cricket boards realise that and so they use international T20 international for trying out new players. Boards like BCCI or South Africa Board have no reason to look up to PCB and emulate them as far as T20 internationals are concerned.

so why play more than 70% of Indian regulars in each match, and that too oldies whose game India already knows, and the players have played so much that they are not going to gain much from these giggle matches? Anyway we are going in circles I don't want to waste any more time - maybe later

 

[FearlessRoar]

Most players used by a Team in T20Is

116 - Pakistan
115 - India
108 - Australia
108 - Sri Lanka
107 - South Africa
100 - England
100 - New Zealand
95 - West Indies
90 - Bangladesh