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Why is Pakistan the only team to get reverse swing?

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sarmad1983

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I think the credit goes to Imad and how he is holding the new ball. the undercutting of the ball makes the seam parallel to the surface and thus he can completely rough up one side of the ball by consistently landing it on the leather of one side of the ball.

great strategy by mickey and hopefully it is planned.
thoughts??
 
We are the one team that employ spinners in the early overs which roughs up the ball a lot faster unlike fast seam and swing bowling where it's the seam hitting the pitch mosty

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Because they have got quality bowlers with action designed for reverse not the high arm actions like Ball n Wood
 
The surfaces have got older and Cardiff has been surprisingly abrasive. It's not even big hooping reverse its just been accurate with a tiny bit of movement.
 
Kianig89 said:
Because they have got quality bowlers with action designed for reverse not the high arm actions like Ball n Wood
Click to expand...

agreed, but the condition of the ball is key. malinga is as side arm as they come. he got nothing to reverse all tournament. neither did any of the other slingy bowlers like starc, etc.
 
Because Cardiff is good for reverse swing.

It's very little reverse though - just enough to move to Take edges.

They bowled the right lengths as well.
 
Poison said:
The surfaces have got older and Cardiff has been surprisingly abrasive. It's not even big hooping reverse its just been accurate with a tiny bit of movement.
Click to expand...

Exactly, just enough.
 
sarmad1983 said:
agreed, but the condition of the ball is key. malinga is as side arm as they come. he got nothing to reverse all tournament. neither did any of the other slingy bowlers like starc, etc.
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Malinga was not even half the Malinga he was and Starc did not had capable partners for Reverse #Hazelwood etal
 
Poison said:
The surfaces have got older and Cardiff has been surprisingly abrasive. It's not even big hooping reverse its just been accurate with a tiny bit of movement.
Click to expand...

Thats all u need to put doubt into batsman's head and the reason no one has been able to accelerate against us
 
Just goes to show that the Pakistani bowling attack becomes a different ball game with reverse swing.
 
Can someone please explain the current rule regarding cricket balls

Either one new ball per innings

One ball for the whole match

2 new balls from each ends(each ball has 25 overs per innings)
 
Spin bowling in early part of the innings mainly Imad is helping reverse swing and that's what Michael Atherton was talking during the commenrtary
 
The good thing for the bowlers is that they are going to play on used pitches even in the final. But the sad part is that it is at the oval and that pitch is as flat as flat can be. Still your bowlers could make it work.
 
sarmad1983 said:
I think the credit goes to Imad and how he is holding the new ball. the undercutting of the ball makes the seam parallel to the surface and thus he can completely rough up one side of the ball by consistently landing it on the leather of one side of the ball.

great strategy by mickey and hopefully it is planned.
thoughts??
Click to expand...

interesting observation...
 
How are Pakistani bowlers able to reverse swing with balls that are hardly 15 overs old?

Honest question.

Amazing display of reverse swing bowling in the last three games by Pakistan. Its definetly an art that is exclusive to them at the moment. With 2 seperate balls being used in a bowling innings, how is it possible for the team to start reversing the ball around the 30th over mark? This used to be a skill that was an art 20 years ago in ODI cricket when only one ball was being used and around the 30th over mark it was rough enough to start reversing. However, Arther and Mahmood seem to have found a way to bring the best out of our bowlers in the later part of the innings in an era where Reverse swing has become a myth in ODI cricket.
 
Abrasive surface in cardiff.

You wont see much reverse swing at the oval. Hope i am wrong though.
 
Madplayer said:
Abrasive surface in cardiff.

You wont see much reverse swing at the oval. Hope i am wrong though.
Click to expand...

The Oval has been a good venue over the years for Pakistani bowlers, hopefully we'll get some reverse there.
 
It's very little reverse swing.

It's because of the dry conditions at Cardiff.

However it's only moving very slightly - just enough to get the edges.

At the Oval the ball can reverse as well because of the used pitches at the side. Again though depends on on the conditions - if it's humid like its forecast then the ball will move.
 
Madplayer said:
Abrasive surface in cardiff.

You wont see much reverse swing at the oval. Hope i am wrong though.
Click to expand...

If there's one ground in England it does reverse it's the Oval - especially Test matches.

However with the 2 new balls it will still be limited in scope.
 
Cardiff was a used pitch.The surface was abrasive.Pakistan used spinners up front which helped quick bowlers later on to swing the ball.To be honest there wasn't big reverse swing.England lost not because of reverse swing.England didn't adapt to conditions and couldn't set a good target.A score of around 270 would have tested Pakistan.England bowling did not have enough variety they bowled a lot of short balls which didn't trouble the batsmen on a slow pitch.
 
sometimes i feel 2 balls were brought in to target pakistani bolwers especially. Anyway release points of all our 3 bowlers are well suited for reverse swing and yes bringing spinners on ealry does help. Lets pray it does in final and if it does then india wont have any chance against us
 
Cardiff pitch. This is the correct answer. I will not be same in the final.
 
It's an art, a strength a weapon a factor which has proven decisive and lethal for Pakistan winning countless ODI games over the years around the world.
This art has created superstars for not only Pakistan cricket but world cricket, from Sarfraz 7/1 at MCG to Akram famous spell at 92WC to Waqar toe crusher in Sharjah Eng NZ and all around, Wahlberg swinging in against Yuvraj at Mohali.
Another reason why Pakistan has failed in 2023 WC is the lack of reverse swing by our pacers, Haris is a tennis'ya completely ignorant to even conventional swing let alon reversing it.

Wsim Jr. Bought In the side and he has reversed it, PCB needs to hire a local bowling coach to teach these guys about reverse swing
 
But the funny thing is when the ball is reversing Babar throws the ball to a spinner. Not once but again and again.
 
Uhh don't know what cricket your watching but every quality bowler is able to get it to reverse.

Jansen especially. Shami and siraj too as well as bumrah.

Stark for some reason hasn't been able to do so this tournament. He's been a pretty weak death overs bowler this cup which is surprising for him. Maybe aging and losing rhythm now.
 
mominsaigol said:
Uhh don't know what cricket your watching but every quality bowler is able to get it to reverse.

Jansen especially. Shami and siraj too as well as bumrah.

Stark for some reason hasn't been able to do so this tournament. He's been a pretty weak death overs bowler this cup which is surprising for him. Maybe aging and losing rhythm now.
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I dont see bumrah getting any kind of reverse swing at all. Yes shami was getting some.
 
Visaal-E-Yaar said:
I dont see bumrah getting any kind of reverse swing at all. Yes shami was getting some.
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He does, tbf bumrah bowling is so weird 😂. Ngl if I'm being 100% honest. Bumrah is a chucker, a huge chucker but I'm obviously going to get flack for this lol.

Regardless bcci controls the board, he won't do anything.

Also before any Indian fan critises me, chacha in spin is also a chucker lol, but chacha sucks and it doesn't matter if he chucks or not, he's impactless either way.

Bumrah and chacha's chucking isn't as obvious as saeed ajmal's chucking 😂😂, that was funny.
 
mominsaigol said:
Uhh don't know what cricket your watching but every quality bowler is able to get it to reverse.

Jansen especially. Shami and siraj too as well as bumrah.

Stark for some reason hasn't been able to do so this tournament. He's been a pretty weak death overs bowler this cup which is surprising for him. Maybe aging and losing rhythm now.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that only Pakistan has reversed, Indian pacers are excelling with reverse. Just mentioning the fact that it was one of Pakistan' main advantage over the years to reverse the ball exceptionally but we ve lost it like everything. Anyone who saw how smoothly and without fear AFG aced the chase against us will know the power of reverse swing we had in past, Akhtar tailing in at Twose, Waqar just crushing everything t Coco Cola Cup.early 2000s against Saffers then in Natwest Series against Eng 7/36 at Leeds, Umer Gul at the Oval and Lords OdI in 2010 series ,.Wasim.Jr should have played the AFg game Alas!
 
mominsaigol said:
He does, tbf bumrah bowling is so weird 😂. Ngl if I'm being 100% honest. Bumrah is a chucker, a huge chucker but I'm obviously going to get flack for this lol.

Regardless bcci controls the board, he won't do anything.

Also before any Indian fan critises me, chacha in spin is also a chucker lol, but chacha sucks and it doesn't matter if he chucks or not, he's impactless either way.

Bumrah and chacha's chucking isn't as obvious as saeed ajmal's chucking 😂😂, that was funny.
Click to expand...
ifti is not a chucker. His action is legal, he rotates his arm. And ifti is not impactless. 5th bowling option matters alot. The 5th bowler isnt required to pick wickets, he is required to bowl qouta of overs at an economy of less than 5

Ajmal's chucking was visible to the naked eye alone.
 
mominsaigol said:
He does, tbf bumrah bowling is so weird 😂. Ngl if I'm being 100% honest. Bumrah is a chucker, a huge chucker but I'm obviously going to get flack for this lol.

Regardless bcci controls the board, he won't do anything.

Also before any Indian fan critises me, chacha in spin is also a chucker lol, but chacha sucks and it doesn't matter if he chucks or not, he's impactless either way.

Bumrah and chacha's chucking isn't as obvious as saeed ajmal's chucking 😂😂, that was funny.
Click to expand...
Bumrah's chucking is debatable.

I have watched all matches of india in WC23 and in not a single match i see bumrah doing any reverse swing.
 
Major said:
ifti is not a chucker. His action is legal, he rotates his arm. And ifti is not impactless. 5th bowling option matters alot. The 5th bowler isnt required to pick wickets, he is required to bowl qouta of overs at an economy of less than 5

Ajmal's chucking was visible to the naked eye alone.
Click to expand...
Yh ajmal was funny beyond belief 😂😂.

Impactless was harsh, I retract what I said. Tbh ifti is the only allrounder we have 🤣🤣. Everyone else is a joke.

But I disagree, I took a close look at ifti, he defo is chucking( I think, not 100% sure).

Regardless already said it multiple times, Ifti, shaheen, Naseem, Saud and Fakhar are the only players I like lol, their the only ones who aren't spineless mental midgets like the rest of the lot and try to play modern cricket.
 
mominsaigol said:
Yh ajmal was funny beyond belief 😂😂.

Impactless was harsh, I retract what I said. Tbh ifti is the only allrounder we have 🤣🤣. Everyone else is a joke.

But I disagree, I took a close look at ifti, he defo is chucking( I think, not 100% sure).

Regardless already said it multiple times, Ifti, shaheen, Naseem, Saud and Fakhar are the only players I like lol, their the only ones who aren't spineless mental midgets like the rest of the lot and try to play modern cricket.
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maybe 1 or 2 balls, but ifti's action is clean as its high arm.
 
Kianig89 said:
I'm not saying that only Pakistan has reversed, Indian pacers are excelling with reverse. Just mentioning the fact that it was one of Pakistan' main advantage over the years to reverse the ball exceptionally but we ve lost it like everything. Anyone who saw how smoothly and without fear AFG aced the chase against us will know the power of reverse swing we had in past, Akhtar tailing in at Twose, Waqar just crushing everything t Coco Cola Cup.early 2000s against Saffers then in Natwest Series against Eng 7/36 at Leeds, Umer Gul at the Oval and Lords OdI in 2010 series ,.Wasim.Jr should have played the AFg game Alas!
Click to expand...
Bro the previous era had one ball only, ball got 40 overs old which is why waqar was lethal with reverse swing.

It's impossible to achieve that level of reverse in today's era with 2 new balls rule.

You'll also that level of reverse in test now
 
Reverse swing has a vital role, WasimJr. Just cleaned Bangladesh tail, also to succeed I'm Test cricket lethal.spells.of reverse swing is required remember how Ausrtalia damage us in Karachi Test
 
Major said:
maybe 1 or 2 balls, but ifti's action is clean as its high arm.
Click to expand...

Tbf, I don't think it matters that much. Sohaib Akhtar chucked his whole career and no one batted an eye lash.

It's usually when it's beyond obvious and unfair that icc steps in. Saeed ajmal was cheating beyond belief pretty much throwing the ball lol, its why when he was caught, he didnt bother appealing, he went straight to rectify his action.
 
mominsaigol said:
Bro the previous era had one ball only, ball got 40 overs old which is why waqar was lethal with reverse swing.

It's impossible to achieve that level of reverse in today's era with 2 new balls rule.

You'll also that level of reverse in test now
Click to expand...
That's where hasan is superior in this department than rauf and SSA, his cross seam deliveries actually make the shape of ball for reverse swing.
 
For ODI to.survive two new balls rule.should be scrapped at priority the game is too batting heavy
 
Visaal-E-Yaar said:
That's where hasan is superior in this department than rauf and SSA, his cross seam deliveries actually make the shape of ball for reverse swing.
Click to expand...
Honestly besides naseem in test, and in odi, we don't have a reverse swing bowler.

Ssa and Rauf are toothless beyond belief. Ssa is great as a new ball bower when he's In form otherwise he's okay.

Rauf is only good for bullying minnow bats.
 
Kianig89 said:
For ODI to.survive two new balls rule.should be scrapped at priority the game is too batting heavy
Click to expand...
It should be scrapped. Theirs a reason imam, Babar and rizwan keep getting exposed in test and why kohli never gets exposed in test.

Yes test and odi are different formats as yk would have been a goat in odi otherwise but

Odi is a joke now, Any idiot can Average 50 lol. Odi use to be the hardest format since it's basically test but requires acceleration which is difficult.

Now it's the easiest format 😂😂. Much easier then test and t20.
 
mominsaigol said:
Honestly besides naseem in test, and in odi, we don't have a reverse swing bowler.

Ssa and Rauf are toothless beyond belief. Ssa is great as a new ball bower when he's In form otherwise he's okay.

Rauf is only good for bullying minnow bats.
Click to expand...
Wasim jr was outstanding with reverse in last two matches.
Hasan also have that art.
Yes, if rauf wants to continue his career in ODI's he need to work on his bowling.
Somehow i believe if rauf shorten his run up he can become more lethal.
 
Visaal-E-Yaar said:
Wasim jr was outstanding with reverse in last two matches.
Hasan also have that art.
Yes, if rauf wants to continue his career in ODI's he need to work on his bowling.
Somehow i believe if rauf shorten his run up he can become more lethal.
Click to expand...
I think Rauf is done. He's clearly not 29 lol, the guy is defo 34 to 37 age. Probs his last cup
 
mominsaigol said:
Honestly besides naseem in test, and in odi, we don't have a reverse swing bowler.

Ssa and Rauf are toothless beyond belief. Ssa is great as a new ball bower when he's In form otherwise he's okay.

Rauf is only good for bullying minnow bats.
Click to expand...
Shaheen is taking more wickets and being more ecnomical with older ball than new ball, so I do not know how you think he is useless with older ball
 
mominsaigol said:
Tbf, I don't think it matters that much. Sohaib Akhtar chucked his whole career and no one batted an eye lash.

It's usually when it's beyond obvious and unfair that icc steps in. Saeed ajmal was cheating beyond belief pretty much throwing the ball lol, its why when he was caught, he didnt bother appealing, he went straight to rectify his action.
Click to expand...
na man it does matter, because that would mean that guy is cheating.

his action is just like how a left arm spinner bowlers. very clean.
 
Major said:
na man it does matter, because that would mean that guy is cheating.

his action is just like how a left arm spinner bowlers. very clean.
Click to expand...
Fair. Just saying, I don't think he's deliberately chucking.

You can tell when someone is deliberately chucking or not, as in saeed ajmal's case.
 
Reverse swing is as much about how you take care of the ball as it is the bowler bowling the ball - has to be an entire team effort. Wasim Jr. is getting the most prodigious reverse swing I’ve seen so far in this tournament, although there have been other plays getting a bit.

Pace helps roughen the ball up too, so I wouldn’t underestimate the help Rauf provides in getting the ball ready for Wasim Jr. to reverse it.
 
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