What's new

Why not let players reverse their retirement?

Junaids

Senior T20I Player
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Runs
17,956
Post of the Week
11
The upcoming Pakistan tour of England will be unusual in that a combined Test and T20 25 man squad will remain together throughout the entire tour.

That will create some unusual dilemmas for Chief Selector Misbah-ul-Haq. Certain white ball specialists such as Mohammad Amir and Wahab Riaz have retired from the Test format and are no longer being paid for full national contracts on the basis that they do not play that format.

But there is every reason to assume that if they are with the squad, staying in the hotel and bowling in the nets, they would probably be prepared to play the Tests if selected. And Amir in particular would be an automatic selection - two years ago on the Test tour of the British Isles he took 12 wickets at an average of 18.42! In his Test career with a Dukes Ball over there he has 54 wickets at 24.52, which is a superb record.

In Pakistan for some reason players who have retired from a format seem to be viewed as having deserted their country. This didn't used to be the case - Imran Khan retired after the 1987 World Cup only to return to lead the team to glory in the West Indies 8 months later and then to World Cup victory in 1992. Yet Amir is treated like a deserter or a traitor, while Imran Khan is now the Prime Minister!

In football this happens all the time.

Lionel Messi retired after the 2016 Copa America, only to lead his country to the World Cup two years later - and they wouldn't have qualified without him.

France reached the 2006 World Cup Final driven by the trio of Zidane, Thuram and Makalele who had ALL retired from national duty previously.

Henrik Larsson retired before EACH ONE of Euro 2004, World Cup 2006 and Euro 2008 - only to return. People accepted that he was helping his country, not deserting it.

I went to the 2010 World Cup in South Africa where England recalled Jamie Carragher because they needed a senior figure to replace the disgraced John Terry.

Mohammad Amir and Wahab Riaz are penalised financially for not being available for Tests. But if either can do a job, I see no disgrace in inviting him to return.

And for Pakistan that's crucial.The tail is going to be awfully long with Shaheen, Naseem and Abbas in the attack, but a fourth quick is crucial. And Amir offers something that Imran and Musa and Haris Rauf and Hasnain do not - he can bat in SENA conditions.

I will never forget Holland being the runners-up at the 1978 World Cup, losing after extra time. And I will never accept that they would not have won if Johan Cruyff had come out of retirement.

You can argue that Imran Khan and Musa Khan were "loyal" in Australia last year while Amir was not. But that argument just promotes and rewards mediocrity.

Pakistan would do well to forget the supposed ethical issues about recalling retired players. The key is to pick the strongest team, not the most loyal or dedicated one.
 
I don't understand why you are using footballers retiring as an example. You need to get over Amir and Wahab Wahab retiring. It was their decision and only they can decide to reverse it. You can't blame Misbah if the players don't reverse the retirement decision.
 
I don't understand why you are using footballers retiring as an example. You need to get over Amir and Wahab Wahab retiring. It was their decision and only they can decide to reverse it. You can't blame Misbah if the players don't reverse the retirement decision.
I know from sources close to Mickey Arthur that Amir did not want to retire from Tests.

Amir and Arthur had realised after the tour of Australia in 2016-17 that he is neither quick enough nor tall enough to be effective in Tests except in England, Ireland, Australia (pink ball only), New Zealand, the West Indies (due to the Dukes Ball) and South Africa.

Amir and Arthur concluded that if Amir had to play Tests in Asia all that would happen would be that he would be mediocre and wear out his body quicker. They agreed that he should just play white ball matches plus Tests in the countries listed above.

But certain influential people opposed that deal and wanted it to stop. At which point Amir took matters into his own hands.

To be honest, Amir would probably have been happy to carry on everywhere except the UAE. He was just finding it impossible to perform there with his style of bowling.

The bottom line is that Amir is up there with Wasim Akram and Imran Khan as Pakistan's GOAT bowler in England. And not picking him for Tests when he is in the (T20) squad, in the hotel and in the dressing room seems insane.
 
Last edited:
I know from sources close to Mickey Arthur that Amir did not want to retire from Tests.

Amir and Arthur had realised after the tour of Australia in 2016-17 that he is neither quick enough nor tall enough to be effective in Tests except in England, Ireland, Australia (pink ball only), New Zealand, the West Indies (due to the Dukes Ball) and South Africa.

Amir and Arthur concluded that if Amir had to play Tests in Asia all that would happen would be that he would be mediocre and wear out his body quicker. They agreed that he should just play white ball matches plus Tests in the countries listed above.

But certain influential people opposed that deal and wanted it to stop. At which point Amir took matters into his own hands.

To be honest, Amir would probably have been happy to carry on everywhere except the UAE. He was just finding it impossible to perform there with his style of bowling.

The bottom line is that Amir is up there with Wasim Akram and Imran Khan as Pakistan's GOAT bowler in England. And not picking him for Tests when he is in the (T20) squad, in the hotel and in the dressing room seems insane.


Amir is nowhere near Imran Khan and Wasim in England. He had a good series in 2010 where most decent bowlers would have took advantage of those conditions. In 2016 he was average in that series and didn't look like taking a wicket.

Amir made his own decision to retire. No one influenced that. He has plans for his career. Dont believe he is the innocent victim he tries to make out.

Would rather have players who will give there all, than talented players who only try when they feel like it. Which Amir comes under.
 
Nothing stops them from telling the PCB that they wish to be considered again.
 
Nothing stops them from telling the PCB that they wish to be considered again.

Which encapsulates that whole national “duty” paradigm which is where this is going wrong.

The best coaches and selectors are ones who don’t bear grudges and who can coax and cajole such players into being available when they would be useful.
 
Amir’s trajectory as a fast bowler was always going to take a hit once he lost 5 years of his fledgling career.
Time to move on from him.

Wahab also had pace but very little else unless the ball reversed.
Again, time to move on.

No player is bigger then the game or the team they play in. The management will have done a great job if they stick to their decision.
 
Nothing stops them from telling the PCB that they wish to be considered again.

Amir’s trajectory as a fast bowler was always going to take a hit once he lost 5 years of his fledgling career.
Time to move on from him.

Wahab also had pace but very little else unless the ball reversed.
Again, time to move on.

No player is bigger then the game or the team they play in. The management will have done a great job if they stick to their decision.
Again, who needs whom?

Pakistan needs a fourth bowler good enough to bat at Number 8 and a third bowler good enough to bat at Number 9.

You can’t win with 3 Number Elevens. Let alone 4 Number Elevens.

Amir may not be the bowler he could have been, but he and Faheem Ashraf are the only two bowlers currently good enough to bat at 8 and 9.
 
If Amir says he is not physically capable of delivering in Tests, then why should PCB ask him to comeback? What if he breaks down on Day 1 of first Test? Who will be to blame?
 
Maybe amir can be effective
But wahab is almost 35 now
Its better to concentrate of naseem shaheen and other upcoming young pacers
 
Maybe amir can be effective
But wahab is almost 35 now
Its better to concentrate of naseem shaheen and other upcoming young pacers
I agree about Amir and Wahab, EXCEPT

1. Amir has a terrific record in Tests in England and he will be at the ground with the T20 squad anyway, so why not play him?

2. The length of Pakistan’s tail is a genuine concern: I am not certain that you can play Shaheen PLUS Abbas PLUS Naseem or else 260-7 becomes 265 all out.

In fact, you probably have to play Shadab at 7 and Faheem at 8 so that 220-5 doesn’t become 230 all out.

I’m thinking

7 Shadab
8 Faheem
9 Amir
10 Naseem or Abbas
11 Shaheen

That’s a strong seam attack but not at the expense of too long a tail.

We know for certain that the batting will fail because Azhar and Haris will play.

So lower order runs will be essential.
 
I agree about Amir and Wahab, EXCEPT

1. Amir has a terrific record in Tests in England and he will be at the ground with the T20 squad anyway, so why not play him?

2. The length of Pakistan’s tail is a genuine concern: I am not certain that you can play Shaheen PLUS Abbas PLUS Naseem or else 260-7 becomes 265 all out.

In fact, you probably have to play Shadab at 7 and Faheem at 8 so that 220-5 doesn’t become 230 all out.

I’m thinking

7 Shadab
8 Faheem
9 Amir
10 Naseem or Abbas
11 Shaheen

That’s a strong seam attack but not at the expense of too long a tail.

We know for certain that the batting will fail because Azhar and Haris will play.

So lower order runs will be essential.

The question here should be , is he ready to return? is he ready to reverse his retirement?
 
I can't really understand what's wrong with some guys!!! What's up with this obsession with Amir? That guy should be nowhere near the national team, a convicted fixer and a mediocre bowler in 2 out of 3 formats of the game. And he's good in T20Is, not world class as some deluded fans believe.

It's unfortunate that Wahab is also being put on the same scale as Amir, guy is almost 35 and it made perfect sense for him to retire from the Tests last year.
 
How is it fair that bowlers retire and unretire themselves to play specfic series at the expense of others who are more committed?

This would leave a dangerous precendent Pcb have done the right thing by demoting them to show others that this isnt acceptable

Win lose or draw id rather have 11 less talented but more commited players out there than those who are more talented but less committed
 
As I debated in the contracts list thread, Amir could have communicated all his reservations to the new management Misbah and Waqar. He even could have taken appointment with CEO Wasim Khan himself, all these people are powerful enough that Amir’s workload would have been managed much better if that was the issue.

Though I dont agree with Amir playing only in certain conditions as per his wish, it has to be the wish of the management where they want to play him while giving respect to the workload management wish of Amir.

However, what happened was just before the new management settled into its job Amir decided to quit tests and there is no known attempt from his side to communicate and put forward his reservations.

Nobody is stopping anybody to reverse retirement, we have seen it before too if I am not wrong. However, a player himself needs to be willing to take such a step.
 
Again, who needs whom?

Pakistan needs a fourth bowler good enough to bat at Number 8 and a third bowler good enough to bat at Number 9.

You can’t win with 3 Number Elevens. Let alone 4 Number Elevens.

Amir may not be the bowler he could have been, but he and Faheem Ashraf are the only two bowlers currently good enough to bat at 8 and 9.

If you have to a bowler who can hold a bat then pick someone who can or has the potential...
Don’t go back to someone who is almost over the hill...

Move on
 
Which encapsulates that whole national “duty” paradigm which is where this is going wrong.

The best coaches and selectors are ones who don’t bear grudges and who can coax and cajole such players into being available when they would be useful.

No one’s bearing any grudges. If Amir wants, he can let Misbah know at any time that he is willing to play the test match if he is needed.
 
Junaids wants a bowling attack of

Amir
Wahab
Hasnain
Rauf
Shaheen
Naseem
Abbas
Faheem
Shadab

Babar and Azhar will be the only batsmen in the team.
 
Junaids wants a bowling attack of

Amir
Wahab
Hasnain
Rauf
Shaheen
Naseem
Abbas
Faheem
Shadab

Babar and Azhar will be the only batsmen in the team.

This is my 25 man squad, with the players intended for the Tests in capital letters and the intended T20 players in normal script.

1. ABID ALI
2. SHAN MASOOD
3. SAMI ASLAM
4. Zeeshan Malik
5. Imran Butt
………….
6. AZHAR ALI
7. ASAD SHAFIQ
8. BABAR AZAM
9. HARIS SOHAIL
10. FAWAD ALAM
…………..
11. MOHAMMAD RIZWAN
12. Rohail Nazir
…………..
13. FAHEEM ASHRAF
14. Amad Butt
...…….
15. SHADAB KHAN
16. ZAFAR GOHAR
(No Yasir Shah)
……….
17. SHAHEEN SHAH AFRIDI
18. NASEEM SHAH
19. MOHAMMAD ABBAS
20. Haris Rauf
21. Mohammad Hasnain
22. Mohammad Amir
23. Wahab Riaz

I still have two spare slots available!
 
This is my 25 man squad, with the players intended for the Tests in capital letters and the intended T20 players in normal script.

1. ABID ALI
2. SHAN MASOOD
3. SAMI ASLAM
4. Zeeshan Malik
5. Imran Butt
………….
6. AZHAR ALI
7. ASAD SHAFIQ
8. BABAR AZAM
9. HARIS SOHAIL
10. FAWAD ALAM
…………..
11. MOHAMMAD RIZWAN
12. Rohail Nazir
…………..
13. FAHEEM ASHRAF
14. Amad Butt
...…….
15. SHADAB KHAN
16. ZAFAR GOHAR
(No Yasir Shah)
……….
17. SHAHEEN SHAH AFRIDI
18. NASEEM SHAH
19. MOHAMMAD ABBAS
20. Haris Rauf
21. Mohammad Hasnain
22. Mohammad Amir
23. Wahab Riaz

I still have two spare slots available!

Pretty good squad Junaid bro. But Misbah is never going to get rid of dead weights such as Hafeez, Malik and Yasir. I am not sure he would take Faheem ashraf either.
 
As I debated in the contracts list thread, Amir could have communicated all his reservations to the new management Misbah and Waqar. He even could have taken appointment with CEO Wasim Khan himself, all these people are powerful enough that Amir’s workload would have been managed much better if that was the issue.

Though I dont agree with Amir playing only in certain conditions as per his wish, it has to be the wish of the management where they want to play him while giving respect to the workload management wish of Amir.

However, what happened was just before the new management settled into its job Amir decided to quit tests and there is no known attempt from his side to communicate and put forward his reservations.

Nobody is stopping anybody to reverse retirement, we have seen it before too if I am not wrong. However, a player himself needs to be willing to take such a step.

That makes a lot of sense ... for people who have worked in a professional setup. Almost all the guys in the national team lack that common sense and I think the PCB needs a lot of training programs for fringe players all the way to national players. They should be given sessions in grooming themselves as well as following various processes/ protocols for communications. Failure to do so should incur penalties and fines on the players.

If the PCB had done that, then sidelining Amir would have made perfect sense. But now it is a case of both being right AND wrong.
 
This is my 25 man squad, with the players intended for the Tests in capital letters and the intended T20 players in normal script.

1. ABID ALI
2. SHAN MASOOD
3. SAMI ASLAM
4. Zeeshan Malik
5. Imran Butt
………….
6. AZHAR ALI
7. ASAD SHAFIQ
8. BABAR AZAM
9. HARIS SOHAIL
10. FAWAD ALAM
…………..
11. MOHAMMAD RIZWAN
12. Rohail Nazir
…………..
13. FAHEEM ASHRAF
14. Amad Butt
...…….
15. SHADAB KHAN
16. ZAFAR GOHAR
(No Yasir Shah)
……….
17. SHAHEEN SHAH AFRIDI
18. NASEEM SHAH
19. MOHAMMAD ABBAS
20. Haris Rauf
21. Mohammad Hasnain
22. Mohammad Amir
23. Wahab Riaz

I still have two spare slots available!

Fair enough. Decent squad.

Fakhar Zaman, and Haider Ali have to be there for the t20s and being around the squad. Imran Butt and Zeeshan are behind Haider at the moment.
 
Back
Top