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Why Pakistani players fail to break into the USA cricket team compared to the Indians?

Major

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Couple of years ago, when Cricket was being discussed for its addition in Olympics, USA had started to improve its team, which they did so by giving visas and residencies to cricketers from Pakistan, Sri Lanka and india.

Alot of our guys, top players in domestic, took the opportunity and moved to USA because unlike UAE or gulf countries, you can get nationality in countries like USA and Canada.

What USA had invested few years back is baring the fruit now. They are on top of the WCL 2, winning every ODI game. However, when you look at the team, its filled with 90% Indian players. Guys like Milind Kumar that played Ranjis for years scoring runs for USA now.

While, currently only one Pakistani player, Shayan Jehangir is playing.

Guys like Hammad Azam, Hassan Khan, Fawad Alam, Ehsan Adil and one of our best batters from U19 Sami Aslam have failed to make it to the USA team despite playing there.

Are our cricketers really that bad, or is USA cricket being biased?
 
Pakistan cricket is that bad as is evident from their results in all three formats over the last 10-15 years and especially stark in the 2020s.

In the 2020s Pakistan has managed to win ZERO ICC trophies, Asia Cups or SENA tests.

Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have managed to win some of them.
 
Couple of years ago, when Cricket was being discussed for its addition in Olympics, USA had started to improve its team, which they did so by giving visas and residencies to cricketers from Pakistan, Sri Lanka and india.

Alot of our guys, top players in domestic, took the opportunity and moved to USA because unlike UAE or gulf countries, you can get nationality in countries like USA and Canada.

What USA had invested few years back is baring the fruit now. They are on top of the WCL 2, winning every ODI game. However, when you look at the team, its filled with 90% Indian players. Guys like Milind Kumar that played Ranjis for years scoring runs for USA now.

While, currently only one Pakistani player, Shayan Jehangir is playing.

Guys like Hammad Azam, Hassan Khan, Fawad Alam, Ehsan Adil and one of our best batters from U19 Sami Aslam have failed to make it to the USA team despite playing there.

Are our cricketers really that bad, or is USA cricket being biased?
The indian expats heavily outnumber pakistanis in the US due to various reasons. most of them are IT workers who moved here through work visas and as far as I know in that segment there is hardly any competition. Most Pakistani expats move here through family immigration, student visas which eventually translate to work visas. So the demographics are different.

Cricket is a game more popular in the indian work visa vategory because they are coming straight from india at an age where they have actively played cricket at semi-pro or even pro level.

Pakistani students who get here usually come straight after high school (17 or 18) and the other category is business class and they usually dont hold very high aspirations for playing cricket at a high level.

Another diffrence is between the following of the game within the first US born generations. Indian kids tend to follow cricket a lot more than Pakistani kids who tend to follow the american sports more. In all my years here, I have rarely seen any pakistani kid who actively plays cricket or is even interested in doing so. I see indian parents put their kids into cricket camps and such which have lately popped up all over the place here in the US.


The last demographic is of former international or national cricketers. Those rarely end up in the team due to their advanced age or other complications. Some of them are playing in the US through sponsored visas and are not US immigrant or citizens so there is a burden of the status there as well.
 
Desi kids in usa watch/ play the game more. Lots of Indians watch their movies, speak the language and celebrate all festivals intact some telugu communities have community gatherings very frequently, they are away from india but still in tact via culture, music, movies and cricket. Hence you see more of them in the usa national team. Of course when there are so many, they will be biased towards their own, which can't be ignored
 
@Stewie many Indian kids follow American sports as well, but in terms of playing they stick to Basketball, Baseball not NFL, inspite of that there are two Indian origin NFL players.

There are Indian origin players coming up in baseball, basketball now, a lot depends upon Indian fathers who are into sports.
 
@Stewie many Indian kids follow American sports as well, but in terms of playing they stick to Basketball, Baseball not NFL, inspite of that there are two Indian origin NFL players.

There are Indian origin players coming up in baseball, basketball now, a lot depends upon Indian fathers who are into sports.
My statement was not meant as a direct comparison between children of which nations follows american sports more. I was just stating that Pakistani kids follow american sports more than they do cricket.

But I have seen this dynamic for a while. The subcontinental kids will probably never be mainstream in american sports for various reasns and thats a topic that deserves its own thread. you might see a few of them get up to the minors but hitting the majors is a tough one.

How many indians are playing in the NBA or MLB? I honestly dont know.
 
My statement was not meant as a direct comparison between children of which nations follows american sports more. I was just stating that Pakistani kids follow american sports more than they do cricket.

But I have seen this dynamic for a while. The subcontinental kids will probably never be mainstream in american sports for various reasns and thats a topic that deserves its own thread. you might see a few of them get up to the minors but hitting the majors is a tough one.

How many indians are playing in the NBA or MLB? I honestly dont know.
Indian origin 20 yr old first draft in MLB for blue jays, let’s see if he can make it .. I see your point though and I agree on another thread for subcontinental folks never being mainstream.
 
I dont believe Major is asking about the upcoming talent from kids born in those countries but of established players who emigrated to play cricket.

From a Pakistani POV I think Sami Aslam skipped qualifiers because he wanted to go on his honeymoon so he wasn't picked again.

I'm not sure if the other players have met the qualification window yet.
 
I dont believe Major is asking about the upcoming talent from kids born in those countries but of established players who emigrated to play cricket.

From a Pakistani POV I think Sami Aslam skipped qualifiers because he wanted to go on his honeymoon so he wasn't picked again.

I'm not sure if the other players have met the qualification window yet.
which established former player from India has played for US? Once again, i dont recall any standout name here. Unmukt Chand was supposed to be the guy but for whatever reasons, even he never ended up playing.

Maybe someone can shed light on this. The term "well established" is also subjective.
 
which established former player from India has played for US? Once again, i dont recall any standout name here. Unmukt Chand was supposed to be the guy but for whatever reasons, even he never ended up playing.

Maybe someone can shed light on this. The term "well established" is also subjective.
Saurabh was a domestic player in India before moving to states to do masters and also played U-19
 
which established former player from India has played for US? Once again, i dont recall any standout name here. Unmukt Chand was supposed to be the guy but for whatever reasons, even he never ended up playing.

Maybe someone can shed light on this. The term "well established" is also subjective.
I dont know, I dont know too much aboiut the Indians but they have played u-19, fc and sometimes IPL. They have less reasons to jump ship than the Pakistani players. i believe USA has 5-6 Indian players in this category.

Whereas none of the Pakistani emigrants have played and bear in mind the Pakistani players were former internationals.

I guess it may be down to residency requirements, or even ability, but there is stories about the mismanagement of the US board and them basically becoming an Indian mafia too.
 
lol , the ambition is so low or he was too cocky.
Playing for US is also not all that it is cracked out to be.

There are a LOOOOOTTTTT greener pastures in US than cricket. Once you get here why would you bother playing a sport professionally which is paying you peanuts in comparison. If its passion alone, you still need US citizenship or greencard.

I dont think what the OP is claiming here is based on a difference or quality of skill, or politics, etc. its just how a number of different factors play together.
 
Saurabh was a domestic player in India before moving to states to do masters and also played U-19
I have personally played with and against former domestic players from India and Pakistan in the local leagues here. some who represented the US as well.

These players dont fit my definition of "well established" subcontinental players. Like I said thats a subjective debate.
 
Playing for US is also not all that it is cracked out to be.

There are a LOOOOOTTTTT greener pastures in US than cricket. Once you get here why would you bother playing a sport professionally which is paying you peanuts in comparison. If its passion alone, you still need US citizenship or greencard.

I dont think what the OP is claiming here is based on a difference or quality of skill, or politics, etc. its just how a number of different factors play together.
Definitely its a passion project.. if not Indians in tech can make way more money in tech than playing cricket for US .
 
I have personally played with and against former domestic players from India and Pakistan in the local leagues here. some who represented the US as well.

These players dont fit my definition of "well established" subcontinental players. Like I said thats a subjective debate.
Established in the sense , they were proper cricketers back home hopefully played atleast list A..
 
In my area I have seen one or two pak players. Infact I have played against the. But Indians simply outnumbers them.massively.
 
Established in the sense , they were proper cricketers back home hopefully played atleast list A..
So here is my take on it. With all the money involved in the game in India, as well as elsewhere, player who are truly good or "well established" as in they are pros and cricket is their career, they will make a lot more money playing elsewhere. NOT in the US.

Playing a season or two of domestic cricket in your home country and then abandoning it to move to US as an economic migrant tells me you are not "well established" from the cricketing POV.
 
So here is my take on it. With all the money involved in the game in India, as well as elsewhere, player who are truly good or "well established" as in they are pros and cricket is their career, they will make a lot more money playing elsewhere. NOT in the US.

Playing a season or two of domestic cricket in your home country and then abandoning it to move to US as an economic migrant tells me you are not "well established" from the cricketing POV.
I doubt in that sense any cricketer will move to US, they might move to England SA UAE To get a real opportunity but that won’t be US..
 
I doubt in that sense any cricketer will move to US, they might move to England SA UAE To get a real opportunity but that won’t be US..
Yes, exactly.

I can rattle out a long list of names I have seen over the last several years, West Indians, Pakistanis and Indians. Ricardo Powell, Unmukt Chand, Sami, Muhammad Asif, etc these guys have long abandoned any hopes of making it big in cricket and they are playing for either chump change in the US or as a side gig or for some its just passion, they already have well established careers in other fields.

So when you have such a diverse and varied field of reasons and backgrounds EXCEPT the one you can objectively use to qualify a player, there is absolutely no point or logic to start making such comparisons.

Hope I am making sense. Bottomline: there is no coorelation between the quality of pakistani or indian domestic cricket or players and/or politics ---- and the lop sided numbers of pakistani and indian origin players in the the US national team.
 
Guys im not talking about expats living in USA.

Im talking about the players taken from QEA Trophy and Ranji

Ehsan Adil and Fawad Alam not playing for USA is a big mystery for me
 
There have been several accomplished players from Pakistan that have played in domestic leagues in the US. There are several leagues around the country that have attracted Indian and Pakistani players to showcase their crafts there, but the number of credentialed (international) Pakistani players far exceeds the Indian players who at best have played Ranji Trophy (which I do hold in high regard as you'll see later). Players like Aizaz Cheema, Najaf Shah, and Mohammad Asif - in the pre-Covid time up to 2019 - have regularly participated over a few seasons in the Washington Cricket League (WCL) and Washington Metropolitan Cricket Board (WMCB) in the Washington DC metropolitan region. I belong to this region, am a club owner, and have had personal experience here, so I will keep my views focused mostly on what I have personally seen. There also are several domestic Pakistani players that play here.

A very brief introduction on the US cricket scene - to make it to the USA Cricket team, the players play in different cricket leagues around the country. The leagues are comprised of different clubs whose owners sponsor all participation. Many of the club owners hold stakes in the US Minor League and US Major League teams.

Here are some of the reasons why the Pakistani players have not been as many in number in the US national team:

1. Residency requirements: The aforementioned Pakistani international players would have been a shoo-in but none of them meet the residency requirements. Asif in particular is more interested in coaching in England, and rightly so. There are many Pakistani domestic players that are queued in for getting residency, once that comes in, we'll see more Pakistani origin players in the team hopefully. Indian domestic players tapped this market before the Pakistani counterparts and established their residency status. One player of Pakistani origin - Ali Khan - would always be welcomed into the US team because he is a genuine matchwinner, but his focus seems to be T20 cricket and CPL. At this time, USA Cricket does not pay nearly as well as leagues do. In the past (10-20 years ago), however, more Pakistani origin players have represented the US than Indian origin players. The maximum participation in the US cricket team has historically been by the players from the Caribbean.

2. Discipline: This is my personal opinion as a cricket club owner combined with chats with other club owners around the country including Pakistani club owners. Many reputed players of Pakistani origin are repeat offenders for coming late to the ground for the matches, not helping to set up the ground / pitch matting where needed (yes, we need to do that here), leaving early during the matches after their batting is done so they can make more money joining their "other team" during their match on another ground. Of course, they only do the two matches a day thing when matches start at different times during the day for different leagues with some overlap. Leagues are working aggressively to suppress this behavior with rules, so this won't be a problem going forward. There are some players of repute - and I won't take names or what they inhale - that indulge in "recreational inhalation" before, during, and after the games. Then Hukka sessions after the games are quite common where everyone is invited. There are some players of Indian origin that do the above too, but their numbers are much lower than their Pakistani counterparts.
When these things happen across the country and leagues from which the US team is eventually picked, the word goes around and people know. If the discipline issues are sorted, things could become better, not just for the Pakistani players but also for the US team which will have some quality players in their ranks.

3. Quality: The overall quality of Indian domestic players playing here is higher than the quality of Pakistani domestic players. I am obviously not comparing players like Najaf Shah or Aizaz Cheema (both of whom didn't meet the residency requirement before getting into their mid-to-late 40s), but more like players coming from Pakistani domestics versus Indian domestics. The Indian players are far more disciplined - batters have a much better technique and adjust to the pitches much faster - and bowlers who are slower than their Pakistani counterparts but don't leak as many runs. A cursory glance at the scorecards of the games in the leagues I mentioned above will show you what I am talking about. There are several players from the Indian domestic circuit that have played here have been / are bonafide stars - players like Sarabjit Ladda, Sunny Patel, Ravi Inder Singh Mehra, Raunaq Sharma, Jasdeep Singh, Sunny Sohal, Rishi Dhawan, Atish Gawand, Milind Kumar etc. have regularly been matchwinners for their respective teams. Most of these players also play in the US Minor League, Major League, and / or the US national team.

4. Loyalty: One thing that is not spoken much but is a personal thing is how loyal the players are to their respective clubs. Players don't realize that Club Owners hold a lot of sway in promoting players. If you as a player switch between teams frequently to get an extra $25-50 per game, then that makes the player more like a contractor than a family member, if you know what I mean. If you like someone, you will go the extra mile to promote them, but nobody likes job-hoppers.

5. Communication: Indian players are generally better communicators and are able to represent themselves better than their Pakistani counterparts. In general, I have seen them make and maintain better relationships with Club Owners regardless of Club Owner nationality. It matters when you can communicate better, provide good input from your experience, and articulate that better so local born players (again mostly subcontinent or Caribbean ones) can understand them better - it brings everyone on the same page better. Performance obviously matters, but if two people have a similar performance, you will choose the one who everyone gets along well with better and can readily talk to.

Some stuff that I have said above is sometimes generic in nature based on my own observation and experience, you may or may not agree with it, I won't be offended :-). Contrary to how the situation is between Indians and Pakistanis in the respective countries, here in the US the relations are very cordial. We spend time with each other very cordially, often watch India-Pakistan matches together, sledge the hell out of each other in all ways without getting personal, disagree with each other many times, and still remain friends the morning after. Life is much better this way. So I would ask you to not give this post a nationalistic flavor and just read it as an opinion from someone that you may or may not agree with. Don't unload on me :-) Cheers!
 
Guys im not talking about expats living in USA.

Im talking about the players taken from QEA Trophy and Ranji

Ehsan Adil and Fawad Alam not playing for USA is a big mystery for me
USA mostly plays T20 and white ball cricket. Maybe better T20 players available than Fawad Alam for them.

I don’t think Fawad in T20 format is better than Aaron Jones, their captain Patel, Ghous, Corey Anderson etc.

I don’t know about Ehsan Adil.maybe he is also a red ball specialist.

Also isn’t Ali Khan their regular player. He bowls 140+ so that’s a rare commodity for associate teams. Don’t see them dropping him unless he is injured . Not every thing is a conspiracy maybe.
 
There have been several accomplished players from Pakistan that have played in domestic leagues in the US. There are several leagues around the country that have attracted Indian and Pakistani players to showcase their crafts there, but the number of credentialed (international) Pakistani players far exceeds the Indian players who at best have played Ranji Trophy (which I do hold in high regard as you'll see later). Players like Aizaz Cheema, Najaf Shah, and Mohammad Asif - in the pre-Covid time up to 2019 - have regularly participated over a few seasons in the Washington Cricket League (WCL) and Washington Metropolitan Cricket Board (WMCB) in the Washington DC metropolitan region. I belong to this region, am a club owner, and have had personal experience here, so I will keep my views focused mostly on what I have personally seen. There also are several domestic Pakistani players that play here.

A very brief introduction on the US cricket scene - to make it to the USA Cricket team, the players play in different cricket leagues around the country. The leagues are comprised of different clubs whose owners sponsor all participation. Many of the club owners hold stakes in the US Minor League and US Major League teams.

Here are some of the reasons why the Pakistani players have not been as many in number in the US national team:

1. Residency requirements: The aforementioned Pakistani international players would have been a shoo-in but none of them meet the residency requirements. Asif in particular is more interested in coaching in England, and rightly so. There are many Pakistani domestic players that are queued in for getting residency, once that comes in, we'll see more Pakistani origin players in the team hopefully. Indian domestic players tapped this market before the Pakistani counterparts and established their residency status. One player of Pakistani origin - Ali Khan - would always be welcomed into the US team because he is a genuine matchwinner, but his focus seems to be T20 cricket and CPL. At this time, USA Cricket does not pay nearly as well as leagues do. In the past (10-20 years ago), however, more Pakistani origin players have represented the US than Indian origin players. The maximum participation in the US cricket team has historically been by the players from the Caribbean.

2. Discipline: This is my personal opinion as a cricket club owner combined with chats with other club owners around the country including Pakistani club owners. Many reputed players of Pakistani origin are repeat offenders for coming late to the ground for the matches, not helping to set up the ground / pitch matting where needed (yes, we need to do that here), leaving early during the matches after their batting is done so they can make more money joining their "other team" during their match on another ground. Of course, they only do the two matches a day thing when matches start at different times during the day for different leagues with some overlap. Leagues are working aggressively to suppress this behavior with rules, so this won't be a problem going forward. There are some players of repute - and I won't take names or what they inhale - that indulge in "recreational inhalation" before, during, and after the games. Then Hukka sessions after the games are quite common where everyone is invited. There are some players of Indian origin that do the above too, but their numbers are much lower than their Pakistani counterparts.
When these things happen across the country and leagues from which the US team is eventually picked, the word goes around and people know. If the discipline issues are sorted, things could become better, not just for the Pakistani players but also for the US team which will have some quality players in their ranks.

3. Quality: The overall quality of Indian domestic players playing here is higher than the quality of Pakistani domestic players. I am obviously not comparing players like Najaf Shah or Aizaz Cheema (both of whom didn't meet the residency requirement before getting into their mid-to-late 40s), but more like players coming from Pakistani domestics versus Indian domestics. The Indian players are far more disciplined - batters have a much better technique and adjust to the pitches much faster - and bowlers who are slower than their Pakistani counterparts but don't leak as many runs. A cursory glance at the scorecards of the games in the leagues I mentioned above will show you what I am talking about. There are several players from the Indian domestic circuit that have played here have been / are bonafide stars - players like Sarabjit Ladda, Sunny Patel, Ravi Inder Singh Mehra, Raunaq Sharma, Jasdeep Singh, Sunny Sohal, Rishi Dhawan, Atish Gawand, Milind Kumar etc. have regularly been matchwinners for their respective teams. Most of these players also play in the US Minor League, Major League, and / or the US national team.

4. Loyalty: One thing that is not spoken much but is a personal thing is how loyal the players are to their respective clubs. Players don't realize that Club Owners hold a lot of sway in promoting players. If you as a player switch between teams frequently to get an extra $25-50 per game, then that makes the player more like a contractor than a family member, if you know what I mean. If you like someone, you will go the extra mile to promote them, but nobody likes job-hoppers.

5. Communication: Indian players are generally better communicators and are able to represent themselves better than their Pakistani counterparts. In general, I have seen them make and maintain better relationships with Club Owners regardless of Club Owner nationality. It matters when you can communicate better, provide good input from your experience, and articulate that better so local born players (again mostly subcontinent or Caribbean ones) can understand them better - it brings everyone on the same page better. Performance obviously matters, but if two people have a similar performance, you will choose the one who everyone gets along well with better and can readily talk to.

Some stuff that I have said above is sometimes generic in nature based on my own observation and experience, you may or may not agree with it, I won't be offended :-). Contrary to how the situation is between Indians and Pakistanis in the respective countries, here in the US the relations are very cordial. We spend time with each other very cordially, often watch India-Pakistan matches together, sledge the hell out of each other in all ways without getting personal, disagree with each other many times, and still remain friends the morning after. Life is much better this way. So I would ask you to not give this post a nationalistic flavor and just read it as an opinion from someone that you may or may not agree with. Don't unload on me :-) Cheers!
Wow, wonderful post. Love the insight you gave us here.

You need to post more about US cricket, and what is happening their plz
 
Fitness really seems to be the weak spot for Pakistani men. They seem to struggle to keep up with the new-gen Indian boys who are relatively taller, fitter, sharper and ooze confidence.

Ever since PM Modi took over, there’s been an air of invincibility surrounding Indian men who carry an aura that’s hard to miss. You’ll find more and more beautiful foreign women marrying Indian men these days as a result.

That being said, Pakistani boys have a purity of heart about them. They’re nice and soft hearted.
 
There have been several accomplished players from Pakistan that have played in domestic leagues in the US. There are several leagues around the country that have attracted Indian and Pakistani players to showcase their crafts there, but the number of credentialed (international) Pakistani players far exceeds the Indian players who at best have played Ranji Trophy (which I do hold in high regard as you'll see later). Players like Aizaz Cheema, Najaf Shah, and Mohammad Asif - in the pre-Covid time up to 2019 - have regularly participated over a few seasons in the Washington Cricket League (WCL) and Washington Metropolitan Cricket Board (WMCB) in the Washington DC metropolitan region. I belong to this region, am a club owner, and have had personal experience here, so I will keep my views focused mostly on what I have personally seen. There also are several domestic Pakistani players that play here.

A very brief introduction on the US cricket scene - to make it to the USA Cricket team, the players play in different cricket leagues around the country. The leagues are comprised of different clubs whose owners sponsor all participation. Many of the club owners hold stakes in the US Minor League and US Major League teams.

Here are some of the reasons why the Pakistani players have not been as many in number in the US national team:

1. Residency requirements: The aforementioned Pakistani international players would have been a shoo-in but none of them meet the residency requirements. Asif in particular is more interested in coaching in England, and rightly so. There are many Pakistani domestic players that are queued in for getting residency, once that comes in, we'll see more Pakistani origin players in the team hopefully. Indian domestic players tapped this market before the Pakistani counterparts and established their residency status. One player of Pakistani origin - Ali Khan - would always be welcomed into the US team because he is a genuine matchwinner, but his focus seems to be T20 cricket and CPL. At this time, USA Cricket does not pay nearly as well as leagues do. In the past (10-20 years ago), however, more Pakistani origin players have represented the US than Indian origin players. The maximum participation in the US cricket team has historically been by the players from the Caribbean.

2. Discipline: This is my personal opinion as a cricket club owner combined with chats with other club owners around the country including Pakistani club owners. Many reputed players of Pakistani origin are repeat offenders for coming late to the ground for the matches, not helping to set up the ground / pitch matting where needed (yes, we need to do that here), leaving early during the matches after their batting is done so they can make more money joining their "other team" during their match on another ground. Of course, they only do the two matches a day thing when matches start at different times during the day for different leagues with some overlap. Leagues are working aggressively to suppress this behavior with rules, so this won't be a problem going forward. There are some players of repute - and I won't take names or what they inhale - that indulge in "recreational inhalation" before, during, and after the games. Then Hukka sessions after the games are quite common where everyone is invited. There are some players of Indian origin that do the above too, but their numbers are much lower than their Pakistani counterparts.
When these things happen across the country and leagues from which the US team is eventually picked, the word goes around and people know. If the discipline issues are sorted, things could become better, not just for the Pakistani players but also for the US team which will have some quality players in their ranks.

3. Quality: The overall quality of Indian domestic players playing here is higher than the quality of Pakistani domestic players. I am obviously not comparing players like Najaf Shah or Aizaz Cheema (both of whom didn't meet the residency requirement before getting into their mid-to-late 40s), but more like players coming from Pakistani domestics versus Indian domestics. The Indian players are far more disciplined - batters have a much better technique and adjust to the pitches much faster - and bowlers who are slower than their Pakistani counterparts but don't leak as many runs. A cursory glance at the scorecards of the games in the leagues I mentioned above will show you what I am talking about. There are several players from the Indian domestic circuit that have played here have been / are bonafide stars - players like Sarabjit Ladda, Sunny Patel, Ravi Inder Singh Mehra, Raunaq Sharma, Jasdeep Singh, Sunny Sohal, Rishi Dhawan, Atish Gawand, Milind Kumar etc. have regularly been matchwinners for their respective teams. Most of these players also play in the US Minor League, Major League, and / or the US national team.

4. Loyalty: One thing that is not spoken much but is a personal thing is how loyal the players are to their respective clubs. Players don't realize that Club Owners hold a lot of sway in promoting players. If you as a player switch between teams frequently to get an extra $25-50 per game, then that makes the player more like a contractor than a family member, if you know what I mean. If you like someone, you will go the extra mile to promote them, but nobody likes job-hoppers.

5. Communication: Indian players are generally better communicators and are able to represent themselves better than their Pakistani counterparts. In general, I have seen them make and maintain better relationships with Club Owners regardless of Club Owner nationality. It matters when you can communicate better, provide good input from your experience, and articulate that better so local born players (again mostly subcontinent or Caribbean ones) can understand them better - it brings everyone on the same page better. Performance obviously matters, but if two people have a similar performance, you will choose the one who everyone gets along well with better and can readily talk to.

Some stuff that I have said above is sometimes generic in nature based on my own observation and experience, you may or may not agree with it, I won't be offended :-). Contrary to how the situation is between Indians and Pakistanis in the respective countries, here in the US the relations are very cordial. We spend time with each other very cordially, often watch India-Pakistan matches together, sledge the hell out of each other in all ways without getting personal, disagree with each other many times, and still remain friends the morning after. Life is much better this way. So I would ask you to not give this post a nationalistic flavor and just read it as an opinion from someone that you may or may not agree with. Don't unload on me :-) Cheers!
Whether anyone agrees with you or not, this is a fantastic post on the club cricket scene in the US and it's even more impressive that it's coming from someone who actually owns a cricket club.
 
Fitness really seems to be the weak spot for Pakistani men. They seem to struggle to keep up with the new-gen Indian boys who are relatively taller, fitter, sharper and ooze confidence.

Ever since PM Modi took over, there’s been an air of invincibility surrounding Indian men who carry an aura that’s hard to miss. You’ll find more and more beautiful foreign women marrying Indian men these days as a result.

That being said, Pakistani boys have a purity of heart about them. They’re nice and soft hearted.
Rather than Modi it is economic growth and westernization.

Loads of indians have tattoos both genders. Pakistanis don’t.

They don’t even produce Akhtar-Asif style desi cool.
 
Fitness really seems to be the weak spot for Pakistani men. They seem to struggle to keep up with the new-gen Indian boys who are relatively taller, fitter, sharper and ooze confidence.

Ever since PM Modi took over, there’s been an air of invincibility surrounding Indian men who carry an aura that’s hard to miss. You’ll find more and more beautiful foreign women marrying Indian men these days as a result.

That being said, Pakistani boys have a purity of heart about them. They’re nice and soft hearted.
Baas kaar....kuch bhi
 
There have been several accomplished players from Pakistan that have played in domestic leagues in the US. There are several leagues around the country that have attracted Indian and Pakistani players to showcase their crafts there, but the number of credentialed (international) Pakistani players far exceeds the Indian players who at best have played Ranji Trophy (which I do hold in high regard as you'll see later). Players like Aizaz Cheema, Najaf Shah, and Mohammad Asif - in the pre-Covid time up to 2019 - have regularly participated over a few seasons in the Washington Cricket League (WCL) and Washington Metropolitan Cricket Board (WMCB) in the Washington DC metropolitan region. I belong to this region, am a club owner, and have had personal experience here, so I will keep my views focused mostly on what I have personally seen. There also are several domestic Pakistani players that play here.

A very brief introduction on the US cricket scene - to make it to the USA Cricket team, the players play in different cricket leagues around the country. The leagues are comprised of different clubs whose owners sponsor all participation. Many of the club owners hold stakes in the US Minor League and US Major League teams.

Here are some of the reasons why the Pakistani players have not been as many in number in the US national team:

1. Residency requirements: The aforementioned Pakistani international players would have been a shoo-in but none of them meet the residency requirements. Asif in particular is more interested in coaching in England, and rightly so. There are many Pakistani domestic players that are queued in for getting residency, once that comes in, we'll see more Pakistani origin players in the team hopefully. Indian domestic players tapped this market before the Pakistani counterparts and established their residency status. One player of Pakistani origin - Ali Khan - would always be welcomed into the US team because he is a genuine matchwinner, but his focus seems to be T20 cricket and CPL. At this time, USA Cricket does not pay nearly as well as leagues do. In the past (10-20 years ago), however, more Pakistani origin players have represented the US than Indian origin players. The maximum participation in the US cricket team has historically been by the players from the Caribbean.

2. Discipline: This is my personal opinion as a cricket club owner combined with chats with other club owners around the country including Pakistani club owners. Many reputed players of Pakistani origin are repeat offenders for coming late to the ground for the matches, not helping to set up the ground / pitch matting where needed (yes, we need to do that here), leaving early during the matches after their batting is done so they can make more money joining their "other team" during their match on another ground. Of course, they only do the two matches a day thing when matches start at different times during the day for different leagues with some overlap. Leagues are working aggressively to suppress this behavior with rules, so this won't be a problem going forward. There are some players of repute - and I won't take names or what they inhale - that indulge in "recreational inhalation" before, during, and after the games. Then Hukka sessions after the games are quite common where everyone is invited. There are some players of Indian origin that do the above too, but their numbers are much lower than their Pakistani counterparts.
When these things happen across the country and leagues from which the US team is eventually picked, the word goes around and people know. If the discipline issues are sorted, things could become better, not just for the Pakistani players but also for the US team which will have some quality players in their ranks.

3. Quality: The overall quality of Indian domestic players playing here is higher than the quality of Pakistani domestic players. I am obviously not comparing players like Najaf Shah or Aizaz Cheema (both of whom didn't meet the residency requirement before getting into their mid-to-late 40s), but more like players coming from Pakistani domestics versus Indian domestics. The Indian players are far more disciplined - batters have a much better technique and adjust to the pitches much faster - and bowlers who are slower than their Pakistani counterparts but don't leak as many runs. A cursory glance at the scorecards of the games in the leagues I mentioned above will show you what I am talking about. There are several players from the Indian domestic circuit that have played here have been / are bonafide stars - players like Sarabjit Ladda, Sunny Patel, Ravi Inder Singh Mehra, Raunaq Sharma, Jasdeep Singh, Sunny Sohal, Rishi Dhawan, Atish Gawand, Milind Kumar etc. have regularly been matchwinners for their respective teams. Most of these players also play in the US Minor League, Major League, and / or the US national team.

4. Loyalty: One thing that is not spoken much but is a personal thing is how loyal the players are to their respective clubs. Players don't realize that Club Owners hold a lot of sway in promoting players. If you as a player switch between teams frequently to get an extra $25-50 per game, then that makes the player more like a contractor than a family member, if you know what I mean. If you like someone, you will go the extra mile to promote them, but nobody likes job-hoppers.

5. Communication: Indian players are generally better communicators and are able to represent themselves better than their Pakistani counterparts. In general, I have seen them make and maintain better relationships with Club Owners regardless of Club Owner nationality. It matters when you can communicate better, provide good input from your experience, and articulate that better so local born players (again mostly subcontinent or Caribbean ones) can understand them better - it brings everyone on the same page better. Performance obviously matters, but if two people have a similar performance, you will choose the one who everyone gets along well with better and can readily talk to.

Some stuff that I have said above is sometimes generic in nature based on my own observation and experience, you may or may not agree with it, I won't be offended :-). Contrary to how the situation is between Indians and Pakistanis in the respective countries, here in the US the relations are very cordial. We spend time with each other very cordially, often watch India-Pakistan matches together, sledge the hell out of each other in all ways without getting personal, disagree with each other many times, and still remain friends the morning after. Life is much better this way. So I would ask you to not give this post a nationalistic flavor and just read it as an opinion from someone that you may or may not agree with. Don't unload on me :-) Cheers!
Excellent post. This mirrors my experience very well
 
Because duuur k dhol suhanay....

Our players were not getting chances in the national team so they left for USA, seeing this as an easy chance to play international cricket, but it is not that easy... There, they have to compete with the players of other countries.

They have secured their future when it comes to money but playing international cricket for any team is not that easy.
 
Fitness really seems to be the weak spot for Pakistani men. They seem to struggle to keep up with the new-gen Indian boys who are relatively taller, fitter, sharper and ooze confidence.

Ever since PM Modi took over, there’s been an air of invincibility surrounding Indian men who carry an aura that’s hard to miss. You’ll find more and more beautiful foreign women marrying Indian men these days as a result.

That being said, Pakistani boys have a purity of heart about them. They’re nice and soft hearted.
Lol, trying to shoehorn Modi everywhere
 
There have been several accomplished players from Pakistan that have played in domestic leagues in the US. There are several leagues around the country that have attracted Indian and Pakistani players to showcase their crafts there, but the number of credentialed (international) Pakistani players far exceeds the Indian players who at best have played Ranji Trophy (which I do hold in high regard as you'll see later). Players like Aizaz Cheema, Najaf Shah, and Mohammad Asif - in the pre-Covid time up to 2019 - have regularly participated over a few seasons in the Washington Cricket League (WCL) and Washington Metropolitan Cricket Board (WMCB) in the Washington DC metropolitan region. I belong to this region, am a club owner, and have had personal experience here, so I will keep my views focused mostly on what I have personally seen. There also are several domestic Pakistani players that play here.

A very brief introduction on the US cricket scene - to make it to the USA Cricket team, the players play in different cricket leagues around the country. The leagues are comprised of different clubs whose owners sponsor all participation. Many of the club owners hold stakes in the US Minor League and US Major League teams.

Here are some of the reasons why the Pakistani players have not been as many in number in the US national team:

1. Residency requirements: The aforementioned Pakistani international players would have been a shoo-in but none of them meet the residency requirements. Asif in particular is more interested in coaching in England, and rightly so. There are many Pakistani domestic players that are queued in for getting residency, once that comes in, we'll see more Pakistani origin players in the team hopefully. Indian domestic players tapped this market before the Pakistani counterparts and established their residency status. One player of Pakistani origin - Ali Khan - would always be welcomed into the US team because he is a genuine matchwinner, but his focus seems to be T20 cricket and CPL. At this time, USA Cricket does not pay nearly as well as leagues do. In the past (10-20 years ago), however, more Pakistani origin players have represented the US than Indian origin players. The maximum participation in the US cricket team has historically been by the players from the Caribbean.

2. Discipline: This is my personal opinion as a cricket club owner combined with chats with other club owners around the country including Pakistani club owners. Many reputed players of Pakistani origin are repeat offenders for coming late to the ground for the matches, not helping to set up the ground / pitch matting where needed (yes, we need to do that here), leaving early during the matches after their batting is done so they can make more money joining their "other team" during their match on another ground. Of course, they only do the two matches a day thing when matches start at different times during the day for different leagues with some overlap. Leagues are working aggressively to suppress this behavior with rules, so this won't be a problem going forward. There are some players of repute - and I won't take names or what they inhale - that indulge in "recreational inhalation" before, during, and after the games. Then Hukka sessions after the games are quite common where everyone is invited. There are some players of Indian origin that do the above too, but their numbers are much lower than their Pakistani counterparts.
When these things happen across the country and leagues from which the US team is eventually picked, the word goes around and people know. If the discipline issues are sorted, things could become better, not just for the Pakistani players but also for the US team which will have some quality players in their ranks.

3. Quality: The overall quality of Indian domestic players playing here is higher than the quality of Pakistani domestic players. I am obviously not comparing players like Najaf Shah or Aizaz Cheema (both of whom didn't meet the residency requirement before getting into their mid-to-late 40s), but more like players coming from Pakistani domestics versus Indian domestics. The Indian players are far more disciplined - batters have a much better technique and adjust to the pitches much faster - and bowlers who are slower than their Pakistani counterparts but don't leak as many runs. A cursory glance at the scorecards of the games in the leagues I mentioned above will show you what I am talking about. There are several players from the Indian domestic circuit that have played here have been / are bonafide stars - players like Sarabjit Ladda, Sunny Patel, Ravi Inder Singh Mehra, Raunaq Sharma, Jasdeep Singh, Sunny Sohal, Rishi Dhawan, Atish Gawand, Milind Kumar etc. have regularly been matchwinners for their respective teams. Most of these players also play in the US Minor League, Major League, and / or the US national team.

4. Loyalty: One thing that is not spoken much but is a personal thing is how loyal the players are to their respective clubs. Players don't realize that Club Owners hold a lot of sway in promoting players. If you as a player switch between teams frequently to get an extra $25-50 per game, then that makes the player more like a contractor than a family member, if you know what I mean. If you like someone, you will go the extra mile to promote them, but nobody likes job-hoppers.

5. Communication: Indian players are generally better communicators and are able to represent themselves better than their Pakistani counterparts. In general, I have seen them make and maintain better relationships with Club Owners regardless of Club Owner nationality. It matters when you can communicate better, provide good input from your experience, and articulate that better so local born players (again mostly subcontinent or Caribbean ones) can understand them better - it brings everyone on the same page better. Performance obviously matters, but if two people have a similar performance, you will choose the one who everyone gets along well with better and can readily talk to.

Some stuff that I have said above is sometimes generic in nature based on my own observation and experience, you may or may not agree with it, I won't be offended :-). Contrary to how the situation is between Indians and Pakistanis in the respective countries, here in the US the relations are very cordial. We spend time with each other very cordially, often watch India-Pakistan matches together, sledge the hell out of each other in all ways without getting personal, disagree with each other many times, and still remain friends the morning after. Life is much better this way. So I would ask you to not give this post a nationalistic flavor and just read it as an opinion from someone that you may or may not agree with. Don't unload on me :-) Cheers!
Has to be POTW. @BouncerGuy @Ball Blazer
 
Because duuur k dhol suhanay....

Our players were not getting chances in the national team so they left for USA, seeing this as an easy chance to play international cricket, but it is not that easy... There, they have to compete with the players of other countries.

They have secured their future when it comes to money but playing international cricket for any team is not that easy.
My few posts on this thread are made entirely and purely to point out this fallacy in logic here. I think the outcomes may lead to such a conclusion but its important to keep matters in context.

In the light of a few posts here from US league experienced folks as well as a team owner, its important to ntoe that these comments are regarding those players who are 1- Has beens (M Asif is an example) or 2- Were not good enough to play for Pakistan and got weeded out (Hammad, Ehsan) etc.
In both cases, the issue is with their immigration status, the US cricketing bodies are too disjointed or weak to actually make a case for any of these players to get citizenships.

But more to the point: these players did not come here aspiring to play international cricket. They make a decent living playing local league and club games and minor league, major league, etc.

Personally speaking, US cricket is not all that it is cracked out to be. Most team "owners" dont actually make a decent enough profit, (perhaps @charlie007 ) can shed some more light on the subject. I have been playing here for decades and while I am myself not good enough, I have enough experience and knowhow that these local leagues and teams do it for the passion of the sport and not some massive financial windfall. I know UK and India were and probably still are interested in the US market but the following here is limited to the expats of cricket playing nation and this is a topic I have been actively commenting on on this forum in the last 10-15 years, there are several threads open where we discussed this.

There is money here but not the interest. They are basically looking at the affluent pakistani and indian americans as their target audience but the business model is extremely wonky and the governance of US cricket has been crap dating all the way back to the Gladstone Dainty days.
 
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