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Why the Rajputs failed miserably in battle for centuries?

Gabbar Singh

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An interesting piece by scroll.in, perhaps the Karni Sena and their supporters would care to offer a rebuttal - once they're done with attacking school buses, and making death threats of course.

What our textbooks don't tell us: Why the Rajputs failed miserably in battle for centuries
They were defeated by Ghazni, Ghuri, Khilji, Babur, Akbar, the Marathas and the British.




The home minister, Rajnath Singh, wishes our school textbooks told us more about the Rajput king Rana Pratap, and less about the Mughal emperor Akbar. I, on the other hand, wish they explained why Rajputs fared so miserably on the battlefield.

A thousand years ago, Rajput kings ruled much of North India. Then they lost to Ghazni, lost to Ghuri, lost to Khilji, lost to Babur, lost to Akbar, lost to the Marathas, and keeled over before the British. The Marathas and Brits hardly count since the Rajputs were a spent force by the time Akbar was done with them. Having been confined to an arid part of the subcontinent by the early Sultans, they were reduced to vassals by the Mughals.

The three most famous Rajput heroes not only took a beating in crucial engagements, but also retreated from the field of battle. Prithviraj Chauhan was captured while bolting and executed after the second battle of Tarain in 1192 CE, while Rana Sanga got away after losing to Babur at Khanua in 1527, as did Rana Pratap after the battle of Haldighati in 1576. To compensate for, or explain away, these debacles, the bards of Rajputana replaced history with legend.

Specialists in failure
It is worth asking, surely, what made Rajputs such specialists in failure. Yet, the question hardly ever comes up. When it does, the usual explanation is that the Rajputs faced Muslim invaders whose fanaticism was their strength. Nothing could be further than the truth. Muslim rulers did use the language of faith to energise their troops, but commitment is only the first step to victory. The Rajputs themselves never lacked commitment, and their courage invariably drew the praise of their enemies. Even a historian as fundamentalist as Badayuni rhapsodised about Rajput valour. Babur wrote that his troops were unnerved, ahead of the Khanua engagement, by the reputed fierceness of Rana Sanga’s forces, their willingness to fight to the death.

Let’s cancel out courage and fanaticism as explanations, then, for each side displayed these in equal measure. What remains is discipline, technical and technological prowess, and tactical acumen. In each of these departments, the Rajputs were found wanting. Their opponents, usually Turkic, used a complex battle plan involving up to five different divisions. Fleet, mounted archers would harry opponents at the start, and often make a strategic retreat, inducing their enemy to charge into an ambush. Behind these stood the central division and two flanks. While the centre absorbed the brunt of the enemy’s thrust, the flanks would wheel around to surround and hem in opponents. Finally, there was a reserve that could be pressed into action wherever necessary. Communication channels between divisions were quick and answered to a clear hierarchy that was based largely on merit.

Contrast this with the Rajput system, which was simple, predictable, and profoundly foolish, consisting of a headlong attack with no Plan B. In campaigns against forces that had come through the Khyber Pass, Rajputs usually had a massive numerical advantage. Prithviraj’s troops outnumbered Ghuri’s at the second battle of Tarain by perhaps three to one. At Khanua, Rana Sanga commanded at least four soldiers for every one available to Babur. Unlike Sanga’s forces, though, Babur’s were hardy veterans. After defeating Ibrahim Lodi at Panipat, the founder of the Mughal dynasty had the option of using the generals he inherited from the Delhi Sultan, but preferred to stick with soldiers he trusted. He knew numbers are meaningless except when acting on a coherent strategy under a unified command. Rajput troops rarely answered to one leader, because each member of the confederacy would have his own prestige and ego to uphold. Caste considerations made meritocracy impossible. The enemy general might be a freed Abyssinian slave, but Rajput leadership was decided by clan membership.

Absent meritocratic promotion, an established chain of command, a good communication system, and a contingency plan, Rajput forces were regularly taken apart by the opposition’s mobile cavalry. Occasionally, as with the composite bows and light armour of Ghuri’s horsemen, or the matchlocks employed by Babur, technological advances played a role in the outcome.

Ossified tactics
What’s astonishing is that centuries of being out-thought and out-manoeuvred had no impact on the Rajput approach to war. Rana Pratap used precisely the same full frontal attack at Haldighati in 1576 that had failed so often before. Haldighati was a minor clash by the standards of Tarain and Khanua. Pratap was at the head of perhaps 3,000 men and faced about 5,000 Mughal troops. The encounter was far from the Hindu Rajput versus Muslim confrontation it is often made out to be. Rana Pratap had on his side a force of Bhil archers, as well as the assistance of Hakim Shah of the Sur clan, which had ruled North India before Akbar’s rise to power. Man Singh, a Rajput who had accepted Akbar’s suzerainty and adopted the Turko-Mongol battle plan led the Mughal troops. Though Pratap’s continued rebellion following his defeat at Haldighati was admirable in many ways, he was never anything more than an annoyance to the Mughal army. That he is now placed, in the minds of many Indians, on par with Akbar or on a higher plane says much about the twisted communal politics of the subcontinent.

There’s one other factor that contributed substantially to Rajput defeats: the opium habit. Taking opium was established practice among Rajputs in any case, but they considerably upped the quantity they consumed when going into battle. They ended up stoned out of their minds and in no fit state to process any instruction beyond, “kill or be killed”. Opium contributed considerably to the fearlessness of Rajputs in the arena, but also rendered them incapable of coordinating complex manoeuvres. There’s an apt warning for school kids: don’t do drugs, or you’ll squander an empire.

https://scroll.in/article/728636/wh...puts-failed-miserably-in-battle-for-centuries
 
Rajputs adhere to the code of war which has been defined by the ancient laws of India (Kshtriya Dharam)

1. War only between dawn(first ray of light) and dusk (last ray of light) and then everybody goes home.

2. War only fought by Kshtriyas and rest (farmers, ironsmiths, labourers, gold smiths, weavers, barbers, etc) continue working., some even watch war as an entertainment.

3. Brahmins would wake up around 3:00 AM in the morning, fetch water from river, cook food and then serve the food to the Rajputs aka Kshtriyas before they get ready for the battle., both armies would stand in front of each other waiting for the first ray of light and then war would start. That is how the war of Ramayana and Mahabharata was fought and also against Alexander and other invaders.

So what Ghaznavi did was that he attacked at 2 am when Rajputs/Kshtriyas were sleeping and it was against their ethics to fight at 2:00 am in the morning.

What Ghauri did was that he butchered cows up stream from where Brahmins would fetch water and they refused to fetch water and thus They fought on empty stomach.

all the foreign mlecche invaders deployed unethichal tactics and means., Sati and Jauhar was started because of these foreign Mlecche invaders selling their women in middle east.

Ghaznavi was such a stupid person that he destroyed the world's biggest library at Nalanda that has accumulated much knowledge of past (0, astronomical sightings, Iron to steel, etc). So did other invaders.

Each invader won because of superior technology (Mughals due to gun powder, Khilji due to trebuchet, Ghori due to un ethical ways and means)

Rajputs were brave but lost as they have not kept up with the rest of the world.
 
Rajputs adhere to the code of war which has been defined by the ancient laws of India (Kshtriya Dharam)

1. War only between dawn(first ray of light) and dusk (last ray of light) and then everybody goes home.

2. War only fought by Kshtriyas and rest (farmers, ironsmiths, labourers, gold smiths, weavers, barbers, etc) continue working., some even watch war as an entertainment.

3. Brahmins would wake up around 3:00 AM in the morning, fetch water from river, cook food and then serve the food to the Rajputs aka Kshtriyas before they get ready for the battle., both armies would stand in front of each other waiting for the first ray of light and then war would start. That is how the war of Ramayana and Mahabharata was fought and also against Alexander and other invaders.

So what Ghaznavi did was that he attacked at 2 am when Rajputs/Kshtriyas were sleeping and it was against their ethics to fight at 2:00 am in the morning.

What Ghauri did was that he butchered cows up stream from where Brahmins would fetch water and they refused to fetch water and thus They fought on empty stomach.

all the foreign mlecche invaders deployed unethichal tactics and means., Sati and Jauhar was started because of these foreign Mlecche invaders selling their women in middle east.

Ghaznavi was such a stupid person that he destroyed the world's biggest library at Nalanda that has accumulated much knowledge of past (0, astronomical sightings, Iron to steel, etc). So did other invaders.

Each invader won because of superior technology (Mughals due to gun powder, Khilji due to trebuchet, Ghori due to un ethical ways and means)

Rajputs were brave but lost as they have not kept up with the rest of the world.
how is that unethical? thats actually being smart. Those arnt sme universal rules for war
 
how is that unethical? thats actually being smart. Those arnt sme universal rules for war

Rajputs and Indian subcontinent has been isolated from the rest of the world for centuries (Himalays in north, Ocean on three sides and a harsh desert of Baluchistan and small Khyber pass).,
Huns, Sakas, Alexandar, etc were able to come to India to get riches but could not sustain it due to rich kingdoms of plains of India.

so the kings all over India have always fought with each other and there had been an established code of everything. starting with 998 these codes were being broken by the invaders ., which only later day Rajputs realized.
 
An interesting piece by scroll.in, perhaps the Karni Sena and their supporters would care to offer a rebuttal - once they're done with attacking school buses, and making death threats of course.



https://scroll.in/article/728636/wh...puts-failed-miserably-in-battle-for-centuries
Didn't really expect this from likes of you Gabbar , to gloat and mock an entire community based on actions of a few.
And here I thought you were some of the most sensible posters here.
On topic - Scroll is a known Hindu hater so no surprises there. Fighting while stoned , really? Is that what passes off for journalism these days? I actually agree with a few of points raised above chief among them being strategically inferior as well less willing to adopt technology but making up lies such as the opium ** is something only Indian liberals could come up with to further their agenda.
And how convenient that they mentioned the battle of Khanwa but cleverly skipped the part about Babar using artillery for the first time in Hindustan. That was an entirely new weapon for Indians and took em unawares so much that it created a stampede like condition among Indian forces. Babar capitalized on it and his cavalrymen did the final job cutting Sanga's forces from behind.
Oh and speaking of Sanga , The guy was the most powerful King of North India at that time having subjugated almost all the major players in north and here I was thinking they only lost the battles. But I guess the ones against Sultan of Malwa and lodhis of Delhi don't count since they don't suit the agenda of our liberal friends at scroll.
I see they have written about haldighati as well and as always their analysis reeks of nothing but bias and prejudice.
Rana Pratap was at huge disadvantage in haldighati , both in terms of number and other logistical factors and yet gave such a devastating fightback that Mughals almost got routed and had to settle for a draw. And Pratap being just a minor annoyance to Akbar , lol really? Is that why he sent expeditions every year to Chittor to crush and overpower him and yet could never succeed? Is that why Jahangir was so willing to make a peace settlement with Amar Singh that he settled for his son visiting the imperial court with treaty terms than having the Rana himself (which was actually insulting considering Jahangir was the emperor of hindustan and not some small petty lord).
Alauddin Khilji whose name is on lips of every bollywood fan these days was actually defeated easily by Hammir dev Chouhan of Ranthambore first time they met in the battlefield.
But I guess that must have been fluke too.
His namesake Rana Hammir recaptured Chittor after death of Alauddin beating the Turks out of Mewar for good .

Anyway I'm tired of all this ** . Go ahead and mock my community all you want . Spread lies , do whatever you sick people want. I have lost hope esp from my Hindu
brethren.
[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] Looking for your valuable analysis on how Rajputs were cowards who deserve to have their name omitted from history textbooks.
Jai Hind!
 
Oh and before the usual whiny lot start attacking me from all sides lemme clear few things here. I do not support violent methods to get one's point across.
There you go. Start the bashing now please.
 
Didn't really expect this from likes of you Gabbar , to gloat and mock an entire community based on actions of a few.
And here I thought you were some of the most sensible posters here.
On topic - Scroll is a known Hindu hater so no surprises there. Fighting while stoned , really? Is that what passes off for journalism these days? I actually agree with a few of points raised above chief among them being strategically inferior as well less willing to adopt technology but making up lies such as the opium ** is something only Indian liberals could come up with to further their agenda.
And how convenient that they mentioned the battle of Khanwa but cleverly skipped the part about Babar using artillery for the first time in Hindustan. That was an entirely new weapon for Indians and took em unawares so much that it created a stampede like condition among Indian forces. Babar capitalized on it and his cavalrymen did the final job cutting Sanga's forces from behind.
Oh and speaking of Sanga , The guy was the most powerful King of North India at that time having subjugated almost all the major players in north and here I was thinking they only lost the battles. But I guess the ones against Sultan of Malwa and lodhis of Delhi don't count since they don't suit the agenda of our liberal friends at scroll.
I see they have written about haldighati as well and as always their analysis reeks of nothing but bias and prejudice.
Rana Pratap was at huge disadvantage in haldighati , both in terms of number and other logistical factors and yet gave such a devastating fightback that Mughals almost got routed and had to settle for a draw. And Pratap being just a minor annoyance to Akbar , lol really? Is that why he sent expeditions every year to Chittor to crush and overpower him and yet could never succeed? Is that why Jahangir was so willing to make a peace settlement with Amar Singh that he settled for his son visiting the imperial court with treaty terms than having the Rana himself (which was actually insulting considering Jahangir was the emperor of hindustan and not some small petty lord).
Alauddin Khilji whose name is on lips of every bollywood fan these days was actually defeated easily by Hammir dev Chouhan of Ranthambore first time they met in the battlefield.
But I guess that must have been fluke too.
His namesake Rana Hammir recaptured Chittor after death of Alauddin beating the Turks out of Mewar for good .

Anyway I'm tired of all this ** . Go ahead and mock my community all you want . Spread lies , do whatever you sick people want. I have lost hope esp from my Hindu
brethren.
[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] Looking for your valuable analysis on how Rajputs were cowards who deserve to have their name omitted from history textbooks.
Jai Hind!


Nanak Naam Chardhi k a l a
Tere Bhaene Sarbat da Bhala

aka

Nanak says that Ishwar/god/allah/yahweh/bhagwan only looks for positive approach/feelings/mentality
As you with dharmic beliefs want good (Bhala) for the whole universe.
 
Anyway I'm tired of all this ** . Go ahead and mock my community all you want . Spread lies , do whatever you sick people want. I have lost hope esp from my Hindu
brethren.
[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] Looking for your valuable analysis on how Rajputs were cowards who deserve to have their name omitted from history textbooks.
Jai Hind!

Banna, these are the desi liberals. The Macaulay putras. Pity I only find them online.
 
I am no rajput and more often than do not subscribe to the view of Rajputs being the only heir of bravery in India. But this article is based on half truths and omissions.

Babur won the battle of Khanua beause of the same reason he won the battle of Panipat, Artillery and Matchlocks. Neither the Pashtun Lodis nor the Rajput Sanga was a match for this novel weapon. But the scroll seems to have forgotten that.

The 2nd battle of Tarain was partly won by Ghauri because he attacked the Chauhan forces before sunrise. But the result of that pre dawn attack didnot brought about the expected result. The rajput army didnot collapse or flee. Despite suffering initial damage they regrouped and repulsed the attack. Thats when Ghori fell on his plan B abd that won him the battle. His army on meeting with fierce rajput resistance feigned a retreat and led the rajput army into a ambush and thats how they were defeated. Ghori had lost to Rajputs twice, in the battle of kayadra and in the 1st battle of tarain and each time the rajputs foolishly spared his life.

Scroll fails to mention that Rana Pratap won back a large part of his kingdom he had lost in the battle of panipat.

This article is stupid
 
Rajputs adhere to the code of war which has been defined by the ancient laws of India (Kshtriya Dharam)

1. War only between dawn(first ray of light) and dusk (last ray of light) and then everybody goes home.

2. War only fought by Kshtriyas and rest (farmers, ironsmiths, labourers, gold smiths, weavers, barbers, etc) continue working., some even watch war as an entertainment.

3. Brahmins would wake up around 3:00 AM in the morning, fetch water from river, cook food and then serve the food to the Rajputs aka Kshtriyas before they get ready for the battle., both armies would stand in front of each other waiting for the first ray of light and then war would start. That is how the war of Ramayana and Mahabharata was fought and also against Alexander and other invaders.

So what Ghaznavi did was that he attacked at 2 am when Rajputs/Kshtriyas were sleeping and it was against their ethics to fight at 2:00 am in the morning.

What Ghauri did was that he butchered cows up stream from where Brahmins would fetch water and they refused to fetch water and thus They fought on empty stomach.

all the foreign mlecche invaders deployed unethichal tactics and means., Sati and Jauhar was started because of these foreign Mlecche invaders selling their women in middle east.

Ghaznavi was such a stupid person that he destroyed the world's biggest library at Nalanda that has accumulated much knowledge of past (0, astronomical sightings, Iron to steel, etc). So did other invaders.

Each invader won because of superior technology (Mughals due to gun powder, Khilji due to trebuchet, Ghori due to un ethical ways and means)

Rajputs were brave but lost as they have not kept up with the rest of the world.

This makes the Rajputs the stupidest people on the planet then. You fight wars, to win wars. If cows blood or pig's guts are good enough to make you lose the war, you are not a warrior in the first place but merely playing at being a warrior.
 
I am no rajput and more often than do not subscribe to the view of Rajputs being the only heir of bravery in India. But this article is based on half truths and omissions.

Babur won the battle of Khanua beause of the same reason he won the battle of Panipat, Artillery and Matchlocks. Neither the Pashtun Lodis nor the Rajput Sanga was a match for this novel weapon. But the scroll seems to have forgotten that.

The 2nd battle of Tarain was partly won by Ghauri because he attacked the Chauhan forces before sunrise. But the result of that pre dawn attack didnot brought about the expected result. The rajput army didnot collapse or flee. Despite suffering initial damage they regrouped and repulsed the attack. Thats when Ghori fell on his plan B abd that won him the battle. His army on meeting with fierce rajput resistance feigned a retreat and led the rajput army into a ambush and thats how they were defeated. Ghori had lost to Rajputs twice, in the battle of kayadra and in the 1st battle of tarain and each time the rajputs foolishly spared his life.

Scroll fails to mention that Rana Pratap won back a large part of his kingdom he had lost in the battle of panipat.

This article is stupid
Anyone who claims that is an ignorant fool having absolutely no idea about the history of Indian subcontinent.
 
This makes the Rajputs the stupidest people on the planet then. You fight wars, to win wars. If cows blood or pig's guts are good enough to make you lose the war, you are not a warrior in the first place but merely playing at being a warrior.

Conduct of war...... it's the very reason samurais were soundly beaten by Mongols. The samurai had a tradition of only fighting against their equivalent.. whilst they waited for the mongols to send their equivalent, they got hordes overwhelming them. Doesn't mean samurai weren't warriors, just that their rules of engagement dictated by their tradition worked against them. Not breaking the rules knowing the perils is brave I would say..... very foolish but brave.
 
Conduct of war...... it's the very reason samurais were soundly beaten by Mongols. The samurai had a tradition of only fighting against their equivalent.. whilst they waited for the mongols to send their equivalent, they got hordes overwhelming them. Doesn't mean samurai weren't warriors, just that their rules of engagement dictated by their tradition worked against them. Not breaking the rules knowing the perils is brave I would say..... very foolish but brave.


Err Mongols never beat the Samurai.
 
[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] Looking for your valuable analysis on how Rajputs were cowards who deserve to have their name omitted from history textbooks.
Jai Hind!

I would bash and brand them cowards,but because scroll published it,I know its biased and unworthy of reading.

If it was fountain ink ,i would give it a second thought.
 
This makes the Rajputs the stupidest people on the planet then. You fight wars, to win wars. If cows blood or pig's guts are good enough to make you lose the war, you are not a warrior in the first place but merely playing at being a warrior.

I don't know how much of that quoted post reflects the truth...but you are looking at it from a modern perspective where the only goal is winning, living and enjoying your wealth.

Our religion has strict guidelines for warriors. They don't care about life or death. What they care about is being true to the Dharmic path set for them and honor.

Yes, you could say it's a bit of a stupid ideology in modern world and I would agree BUT from a larger perspective, their way of life is not stupid....it's a very noble.

The mistake that may have happened they didn't adapt to the situation.

Lord Ram was a kshatriya. He followed guidelines in a strict manner in Treta Yuga.
Lord Krishna was a kshatriya too but he indulged in a misdirection to win the war for Pandavas.

What changed?

The Yugas. Dhrama in the Rama Yuga could be followed more easily than in the next Yuga. When the Lord himself changes his
approach, Rajputs should have too.

Moreover, there is a ruling in our texts (dunno which one exactly): When there is Adharma in the kingdom, the warrior clan has the rights to indulge in any and every method to vanquish the offenders.
 
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Rajputs adhere to the code of war which has been defined by the ancient laws of India (Kshtriya Dharam)

1. War only between dawn(first ray of light) and dusk (last ray of light) and then everybody goes home.

2. War only fought by Kshtriyas and rest (farmers, ironsmiths, labourers, gold smiths, weavers, barbers, etc) continue working., some even watch war as an entertainment.

3. Brahmins would wake up around 3:00 AM in the morning, fetch water from river, cook food and then serve the food to the Rajputs aka Kshtriyas before they get ready for the battle., both armies would stand in front of each other waiting for the first ray of light and then war would start. That is how the war of Ramayana and Mahabharata was fought and also against Alexander and other invaders.

So what Ghaznavi did was that he attacked at 2 am when Rajputs/Kshtriyas were sleeping and it was against their ethics to fight at 2:00 am in the morning.

What Ghauri did was that he butchered cows up stream from where Brahmins would fetch water and they refused to fetch water and thus They fought on empty stomach.

this sounds really stupid

why would a foreign invader care about the customs and traditions of local empires he aims to conquer.

You can perhaps expect local empires to conduct on agreed terms. I am sure the invaders also have a code and conduct in their local arena which they dont expect the foreign armies to adhere to. Doesnt seem very smart to expact an aggressor to fight on your terms. Is this why Indian empires dont have any history of military endeavors outside the subcontinent?
 
this sounds really stupid

why would a foreign invader care about the customs and traditions of local empires he aims to conquer.

You can perhaps expect local empires to conduct on agreed terms. I am sure the invaders also have a code and conduct in their local arena which they dont expect the foreign armies to adhere to. Doesnt seem very smart to expact an aggressor to fight on your terms. Is this why Indian empires dont have any history of military endeavors outside the subcontinent?

Read the posts of Eagle Eye. The conduct of war and following it was of utmost importance to the Kshatriyas.This is why Ghori lived despite losing 2 battles to Rajputs.


What they forgot was that its mentioned that a unscruplous enemy be dealt with in the manner befitting such a enemy.
 
Read the posts of Eagle Eye. The conduct of war and following it was of utmost importance to the Kshatriyas.This is why Ghori lived despite losing 2 battles to Rajputs.


What they forgot was that its mentioned that a unscruplous enemy be dealt with in the manner befitting such a enemy.

Indian empires spread to persia and afghanistan and to south east asia. So its wrong to say they didnot go outside the subcontinent.
 
Hindus religiously followed the Caste System, which is the biggest reason for their downfall.

Brahmins were not fighting, but only making food.

Only Kshatriyas were fighting and declaring themselves to be the brave warriors.

While Kshatriyas and Brahmins treated Dalits so badly that they were not even considered to be worthy of fighting in wars along with high caste Kshatriyas.

On the other hand, Muslim Warriors also got the evil problem of free Muslim and slaves, but it was not to that level which existed among the Hindu Religion.

The numbers of Hindu Army would have exceeded the Muslim invaders to 10-1 if they would have allowed the Brahmins and Dalits to fight along with Kshatriyas.

Secondly, Muslim Invaders of Turkic origin were strongly built as compared to the Indians, who were mainly vegetarians.
 
Rajputs adhere to the code of war which has been defined by the ancient laws of India (Kshtriya Dharam)

1. War only between dawn(first ray of light) and dusk (last ray of light) and then everybody goes home.

2. War only fought by Kshtriyas and rest (farmers, ironsmiths, labourers, gold smiths, weavers, barbers, etc) continue working., some even watch war as an entertainment.

3. Brahmins would wake up around 3:00 AM in the morning, fetch water from river, cook food and then serve the food to the Rajputs aka Kshtriyas before they get ready for the battle., both armies would stand in front of each other waiting for the first ray of light and then war would start. That is how the war of Ramayana and Mahabharata was fought and also against Alexander and other invaders.

So what Ghaznavi did was that he attacked at 2 am when Rajputs/Kshtriyas were sleeping and it was against their ethics to fight at 2:00 am in the morning.

What Ghauri did was that he butchered cows up stream from where Brahmins would fetch water and they refused to fetch water and thus They fought on empty stomach.

all the foreign mlecche invaders deployed unethichal tactics and means., Sati and Jauhar was started because of these foreign Mlecche invaders selling their women in middle east.

Ghaznavi was such a stupid person that he destroyed the world's biggest library at Nalanda that has accumulated much knowledge of past (0, astronomical sightings, Iron to steel, etc). So did other invaders.

Each invader won because of superior technology (Mughals due to gun powder, Khilji due to trebuchet, Ghori due to un ethical ways and means)

Rajputs were brave but lost as they have not kept up with the rest of the world.

Expecting foreign invaders to follow the law of land shows lack of judgement. I read an article and posted it on another thread which says rajaputs kept sending their women to mughal harem for over 150 years,were they really following kshatriya dharma ? We should stop believing that our ancestors had done only great things be it rajaputs or any community.
 
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Sher Shah invaded Marwar in 16th century after he had ousted Humayun and established the Sur dynasty on Delhi.
At that time the region was ruled by Maldeva , a scion of Rathore clan and an extremely ambitious and powerful king.

After initial setbacks , Sher Shah devised a plan whereby he with the help of his spies hid forged letters in Maldeva's camp which falsely claimed that a few of Generals of Maldeva were about to surrender. This proved to be a masterstroke and made the Rajput king to retreat ignoring the pleas from his generals who asked him to stay and fight.

When the king wouldn't budge , two of his generals Rao Jaita and Rao Kumpa decided to stay and fight the mighty Pashtun king themselves though they were heavily outnumbered.

The battle took place next day and was so fierce that more than half of Sher Shah's army was slaughtered and he had to send reinforcements which at the end saved the day.
Though he won the battle but such heavy were the losses on his side that he famously said to have remarked "mutthi bhar baajre k liye hindustan ki Sultanate kho bethta". (Marwar was mostly a desert )
And no it's not some randomly made up quote from me or other propagandists , I have cross checked it from various sources.
 
Expecting foreign invaders to follow the law of land shows lack of judgement. I read an article and posted it on another thread which says rajaputs kept sending their women to mughal harem for over 150 years,were they really following kshatriya dharma ? We should stop believing that our ancestors had done only great things be it rajaputs or any community.

At least learn to spell Rajput properly before coming up with ridiculous lies.
Provide me a link from neutral source which proves your claim of Rajputs sending their women to Mughal harem.
Some of them did marry their daughters but sending them to harem is a lie.
 
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I don't know how much of that quoted post reflects the truth...but you are looking at it from a modern perspective where the only goal is winning, living and enjoying your wealth.

Our religion has strict guidelines for warriors. They don't care about life or death. What they care about is being true to the Dharmic path set for them and honor.

Yes, you could say it's a bit of a stupid ideology in modern world and I would agree BUT from a larger perspective, their way of life is not stupid....it's a very noble.

The mistake that may have happened they didn't adapt to the situation.

Lord Ram was a kshatriya. He followed guidelines in a strict manner in Treta Yuga.
Lord Krishna was a kshatriya too but he indulged in a misdirection to win the war for Pandavas.

What changed?

The Yugas. Dhrama in the Rama Yuga could be followed more easily than in the next Yuga. When the Lord himself changes his
approach, Rajputs should have too.

Moreover, there is a ruling in our texts (dunno which one exactly): When there is Adharma in the kingdom, the warrior clan has the rights to indulge in any and every method to vanquish the offenders.

You sound very naive to the point that its cute (no homo).

Nobody follows Ethics in war to the letter. In Islam its prohibited to even cut a freaking tree in enemy territory during a war. Yeah right, nobody follows it.

Rajputs were beaten fair and square because of superior weapons and strategy. Nothing else.
 
This is crux of the matter which any rational person can tell

I agree with that assessment. If we leave aside a few exceptions , Rajputs were complete morons when it came to divising a effective battle strategy.
Extremely brave but naive when it came to war strategy.
 
You sound very naive to the point that its cute (no homo).

Nobody follows Ethics in war to the letter. In Islam its prohibited to even cut a freaking tree in enemy territory during a war. Yeah right, nobody follows it.

Rajputs were beaten fair and square because of superior weapons and strategy. Nothing else.

If muslim invaders were unethical its their problem and their weakness, the rajput followed their ethics and being ethical isnt wrong.

Thanks for saying that ethics have no place in a war.

So to say that rajputs were beaten fairly by a Ghori is wrong. Someone like Babur though won due to superior weapons.
 
code of conduct and ethics arent decided unilaterally

What is the islamic code of conduct in war? Pretty sure the prophet (pbuh) didnot allow attacking unarmed enemy at night when they are sleeping or destroying places of worship of other faiths or killing unarmed civilians?
 
You sound very naive to the point that its cute (no homo).

Nobody follows Ethics in war to the letter. In Islam its prohibited to even cut a freaking tree in enemy territory during a war. Yeah right, nobody follows it.

Rajputs were beaten fair and square because of superior weapons and strategy. Nothing else.

My post wasn't about whether Rajput lost because of following code of ethics or not. I hav already said there were provisions for them to break the code.

My post was about addressing its quoted post which called Rajput as fools.... that's it. It doesn't intend to make a larger point.

The paradigm with which you are viewing this incident is different from the paradigm with which Rajputs operated.

Code of ethics is taken very very seriously in our Dharma. In all our texts, there is heavy emphasis for it.
 
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The most fascinating for me is that, as a people, after each loss they got together and fought yet again.

It only shows that whenever they needed to, they fought and never ran away from a fight. They lost, but fought again. I appreciate that strength of character.
 
My post wasn't about whether Rajput lost because of following code of ethics or not. I hav already said there were provisions for them to break the code.

My post was about addressing its quoted post which called Rajput as fools.... that's it. It doesn't intend to make a larger point.

The paradigm with which you are viewing this incident is different from the paradigm with which Rajputs operated.

Code of ethics is taken very very seriously in our Dharma. In all our texts, there is heavy emphasis for it.

There's a code of ethics in every culture's texts, even to this day, doesn't mean they are followed in reality. The only code that counts is to win ultimately. Then everyone else falls in line code of conduct or no code of conduct.
 
What is the islamic code of conduct in war? Pretty sure the prophet (pbuh) didnot allow attacking unarmed enemy at night when they are sleeping or destroying places of worship of other faiths or killing unarmed civilians?

Yep.. you are right
 
The most fascinating for me is that, as a people, after each loss they got together and fought yet again.

It only shows that whenever they needed to, they fought and never ran away from a fight. They lost, but fought again. I appreciate that strength of character.

Which begs the question , is winning the sole criteria of deciding the contribution of a particular community or assessing their bravery and commitment?
Two examples here
1 Indo China war of 1962 - In the battle of Rezang la , Major Shaitan Singh Bhati and 123 soldiers of his Ahir company held the important strategic position of Rezang la which was at around 5000 ft from sea level . The month was November and the winters were extremely cruel with icy winds howling around.
The Chinese attack came on 18th . The Indian soldiers were heavily outnumbered with Chinese platoon numbering around 1000 and not to mention their advanced weaponry and other equipment. Inspire of all that the Indians fought bravely despite having the option of fleeing the site. Major Shaitan Singh kept on encouraging his soldiers and when the ammunition got over they resorted to hand to hand combat with the advancing army. 114 out of 123 soldiers were martyred and the dead body of Major Shaitan Singh was discovered 3 months later buried in the snow WITH THE GUN STILL IN HIS HAND. He was later awarded Param Vir Chakra , India's highest war time gallantry award.
As per Scroll's logic , he should have deserted his post since the odds of overpowering the Chinese were extremely small. But he didn't and neither did his soldiers.

2. Mahabharata- Abhimanyu almost single handedly destroyed the Kauravas' chakravayu and it took all of their best commanders to finally kill him. What a coward!

Oh and btw out of 21 Param Vir Chakras awarded so far , 5 have won by the Rajputs. Thats almost 24 percent of total number ( Rajputs hardly constitue 5-6 percent of India's population) . Were these brave soldiers fighting under the influence of opium as well?
Matlab Kya kuch bhi likh doge yar? A new low for this pathetic news portal.
 
There's a code of ethics in every culture's texts, even to this day, doesn't mean they are followed in reality. The only code that counts is to win ultimately. Then everyone else falls in line code of conduct or no code of conduct.

I respectfully disagree Captain.
Muslims lost the battle of Uhud yet it's considered as one of the significant moments in Islamic history and the martyrs are still respected to this day.
Surely calling Jubair a fool would be disrespecting the legacy of the battle.
Theres more to war than just that.
 
Which begs the question , is winning the sole criteria of deciding the contribution of a particular community or assessing their bravery and commitment?
Two examples here
1 Indo China war of 1962 - In the battle of Rezang la , Major Shaitan Singh Bhati and 123 soldiers of his Ahir company held the important strategic position of Rezang la which was at around 5000 ft from sea level . The month was November and the winters were extremely cruel with icy winds howling around.
The Chinese attack came on 18th . The Indian soldiers were heavily outnumbered with Chinese platoon numbering around 1000 and not to mention their advanced weaponry and other equipment. Inspire of all that the Indians fought bravely despite having the option of fleeing the site. Major Shaitan Singh kept on encouraging his soldiers and when the ammunition got over they resorted to hand to hand combat with the advancing army. 114 out of 123 soldiers were martyred and the dead body of Major Shaitan Singh was discovered 3 months later buried in the snow WITH THE GUN STILL IN HIS HAND. He was later awarded Param Vir Chakra , India's highest war time gallantry award.
As per Scroll's logic , he should have deserted his post since the odds of overpowering the Chinese were extremely small. But he didn't and neither did his soldiers.

2. Mahabharata- Abhimanyu almost single handedly destroyed the Kauravas' chakravayu and it took all of their best commanders to finally kill him. What a coward!

Oh and btw out of 21 Param Vir Chakras awarded so far , 5 have won by the Rajputs. Thats almost 24 percent of total number ( Rajputs hardly constitue 5-6 percent of India's population) . Were these brave soldiers fighting under the influence of opium as well?
Matlab Kya kuch bhi likh doge yar? A new low for this pathetic news portal.

Well said and raised a very good point.

is winning the sole criteria of deciding the contribution of a particular community or assessing their bravery and commitment?
Of course not. No battle can be considered glorious if one side is a bunch of cowards. History is written by victors and hence the losing side is never appreciated.

Many 'news' channels and papers rely on click-baits and 'fake news phenomenon' is hurting humanity's cultural growth.
 
I respectfully disagree Captain.
Muslims lost the battle of Uhud yet it's considered as one of the significant moments in Islamic history and the martyrs are still respected to this day.
Surely calling Jubair a fool would be disrespecting the legacy of the battle.
Theres more to war than just that.

You are right. I was thinking back to something I heard back in the days HT used to preach on the university campuses about Khilafa, when they were challenged why they didn't go fight jihad, they replied that fighting should be done with a view to victory - one of the few sensible thoughts that they came up with among the more usual nonsense. But real values live longer. I salute you sir for standing up for yours.
 
Hindus religiously followed the Caste System, which is the biggest reason for their downfall.

Brahmins were not fighting, but only making food.

Only Kshatriyas were fighting and declaring themselves to be the brave warriors.

While Kshatriyas and Brahmins treated Dalits so badly that they were not even considered to be worthy of fighting in wars along with high caste Kshatriyas.

On the other hand, Muslim Warriors also got the evil problem of free Muslim and slaves, but it was not to that level which existed among the Hindu Religion.

The numbers of Hindu Army would have exceeded the Muslim invaders to 10-1 if they would have allowed the Brahmins and Dalits to fight along with Kshatriyas.

Secondly, Muslim Invaders of Turkic origin were strongly built as compared to the Indians, who were mainly vegetarians.


"Caste system" is a word given by Portuguese from their casta.

They didn't realized that Bharat has a system of Varna and Jaati

Varna means group .
Jaati means profession aka work aka your job.

Originally people had rights to change their Varna as well as their Jati (work)., later by 15th century it became very bad so that people were not allowed to change their varna (group where you are born) and/or their profession (Brahmin son would always become Brahim while person who is a farmer his son will become farmer and his daughter will marry only into farming family).

Many of the Hindu sages who wrote Vedas were born of ordinary people and became Brahmins.

for example Ved Vyas who was born in a fisherman caste wrote/compiled Mahabharta and became Brahmin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyasa
 
Expecting foreign invaders to follow the law of land shows lack of judgement. I read an article and posted it on another thread which says rajaputs kept sending their women to mughal harem for over 150 years,were they really following kshatriya dharma ? We should stop believing that our ancestors had done only great things be it rajaputs or any community.

Only rajputs of Jaipur family married with Mughals., Mewar and other families did not!
 
Only Rajputs fighting while Brahmins are cooking is a joke.

In the time of war, everyone should wield a weapon to save the country from foreign invasions. Imagine Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vysyas, Sudras and Dalits all fighting together. No Foreign would win against an army that has that many men.

Also this warfare Maryada (code/ethics) are only for local kings to India. No Central Asian or Turk would care about how Indians fight their war.

All sounds like Silly reasons for the entire people to not fight in the war.

Seriously, Indians deserve to be humiliated by Foreigners.
 
Only Rajputs fighting while Brahmins are cooking is a joke.

In the time of war, everyone should wield a weapon to save the country from foreign invasions. Imagine Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vysyas, Sudras and Dalits all fighting together. No Foreign would win against an army that has that many men.

Also this warfare Maryada (code/ethics) are only for local kings to India. No Central Asian or Turk would care about how Indians fight their war.

All sounds like Silly reasons for the entire people to not fight in the war.

Seriously, Indians deserve to be humiliated by Foreigners.

Reading multiple sources and then forming an opinion is a good exercise. You should try it sometime
 
Brahmins cooking? LMAO
Brahmins on various occasions have participated in wars along with Rajputs in Rajasthan. Heck even maheshwari Baniyas too fought alongside the Rajputs on a few occasions.
The ignorance of a few posters here is shocking to say the least.
 
Brahmins cooking? LMAO
Brahmins on various occasions have participated in wars along with Rajputs in Rajasthan. Heck even maheshwari Baniyas too fought alongside the Rajputs on a few occasions.
The ignorance of a few posters here is shocking to say the least.

Various occasions might not be enough. All citizens should fight united. I do not know details of who fight and who stayed home, but in the times of war, I would expect every Indian to pick up a weapon and fight off the invaders.
 
Various occasions might not be enough. All citizens should fight united. I do not know details of who fight and who stayed home, but in the times of war, I would expect every Indian to pick up a weapon and fight off the invaders.

While Rajputs were obviously at the forefront , they were assisted many times by various communities.
And dude Brahmins had several of their own kingdoms such as Sungas , Satvahanas etc therefore the notion of Brahmins only cooking or begging couldn't be far from truth.
Brahmins and Kshatriyas have together ruled over India. These two communities were inseparable and hence the reason you see so much support from them for each other even in the modern times.
 
Only rajputs of Jaipur family married with Mughals., Mewar and other families did not!

And there's a difference between marrying and sending in harem.I have no problems with the former. Jodha Bai was mother of Prince Saleem.
That makes Jahangir half rajput lol.
 
While Rajputs were obviously at the forefront , they were assisted many times by various communities.
And dude Brahmins had several of their own kingdoms such as Sungas , Satvahanas etc therefore the notion of Brahmins only cooking or begging couldn't be far from truth.
Brahmins and Kshatriyas have together ruled over India. These two communities were inseparable and hence the reason you see so much support from them for each other even in the modern times.

Don't forget Baniyas.

Brahmins/Baniyas/Kshatriyas = Tilak/Taraju/Talwar. Who can forget the slogans of Mayawati.
 
Living and getting what you want in life, is more important than honor. Better to be a honor-less survivor than a fool who died for honor.

FGS they weren't committing suicides.
They just didn't believe in retreating in front of the advancing army.
Nothing wrong with that. I am glad that most of our soldiers on border has similar thoughts and thus allowing me and millions of other Indians to sleep peacefully at night.
 
Right to dignity while living is a fundamental right in India. Now dignity is a subjective term and open for interpretation. It could be different for different people.
Getting humiliated by your enemy is a direct strike on one's dignity. And there the honor comes in the picture.
 
There is no honor if you lose.

Victors get to write the history. Most of the conquered kings and their soldiers are slaughtered. Their version of events never get to history books.

Really? Yet here we are discussing the valour and honour of the rajputs.
 
FGS they weren't committing suicides.
They just didn't believe in retreating in front of the advancing army.
Nothing wrong with that. I am glad that most of our soldiers on border has similar thoughts and thus allowing me and millions of other Indians to sleep peacefully at night.

Rajputs did retreat. Regrouped and retaliated. There is no shame in a tactical retreat, remember Krishna is also called Ranchor.

The point is fighting with honour and ethics.
 
False. You live when you get what you want in life. Honor has no place in it. Its basically an arbitrary and by now, largely useless and out-dated concept.

It may be for you. But for many honour is of utmost importance.
 
So following a code of conduct and ethics in a war is wrong. Ok.

All is fair in war and love... There is nothing glorious or scrupulous about war... War is young men opening each other s guts for the sake of their ambitions.... Brahmins like to act all mighty because they don’t consume meat... How is it fair to kill horses who asked nothing and use them in the war... So if someone who didn’t use horses invaded India would they be able to call Rajputs as unfair and unscrupulous and lacking ethics? War is by definition unethical and wrong... There is zero difference between Rajputs and invaders...


People should praise Rajputs for not fighting at night or for sparing life of Gauri? LOL...
 
All is fair in war and love... There is nothing glorious or scrupulous about war... War is young men opening each other s guts for the sake of their ambitions.... Brahmins like to act all mighty because they don’t consume meat... How is it fair to kill horses who asked nothing and use them in the war... So if someone who didn’t use horses invaded India would they be able to call Rajputs as unfair and unscrupulous and lacking ethics? War is by definition unethical and wrong... There is zero difference between Rajputs and invaders...


People should praise Rajputs for not fighting at night or for sparing life of Gauri? LOL...


This is the most absurd post, Defending land is not war. What will you do if someone attacked your home tomorrow? Fight or give up your home?


Rajputs mostly had to defend attacks on their lands by foreign invaders..
 
Various occasions might not be enough. All citizens should fight united. I do not know details of who fight and who stayed home, but in the times of war, I would expect every Indian to pick up a weapon and fight off the invaders.



Remember there were kingdoms at that time there was no unified India.. You are comparing today’s India with hat era which is wrong, a Rajput state getting invaded does not in effect meant that a Maratha king or some other Hindu kingdom was getting invaded..

If all the kings and rulers of India were united we would not have seen Mughals or britishers rule ya..
 
Indian empires spread to persia and afghanistan and to south east asia. So its wrong to say they didnot go outside the subcontinent.



India was a land of riches and was divided into many kingdoms who kept fighting with each other.. Indians did not need to expand as much as central Asian invaders since their land was barren and not filled with riches like India..
 
This is the most absurd post, Defending land is not war. What will you do if someone attacked your home tomorrow? Fight or give up your home?


Rajputs mostly had to defend attacks on their lands by foreign invaders..

Then I would defend myself but not pretend I am some gift of god with honor and values.... Because Rajput Kings are not the normal people... It doesn’t make a difference to normal people that their leader is named Sultan or Raja... All of them are exploiters....

Also defending yourself is still war
 
"Caste system" is a word given by Portuguese from their casta.

They didn't realized that Bharat has a system of Varna and Jaati

Varna means group .
Jaati means profession aka work aka your job.

Originally people had rights to change their Varna as well as their Jati (work)., later by 15th century it became very bad so that people were not allowed to change their varna (group where you are born) and/or their profession (Brahmin son would always become Brahim while person who is a farmer his son will become farmer and his daughter will marry only into farming family).

Many of the Hindu sages who wrote Vedas were born of ordinary people and became Brahmins.

for example Ved Vyas who was born in a fisherman caste wrote/compiled Mahabharta and became Brahmin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyasa

With all due respects to you, I don't believe this is true at all.

But for some reason, lots of Hindus whom I met online believe caste could be changed.

If only I had a dollar every time I heard this argument, I would be a billionaire by now.
 
To answer the OP:

The reason the Rajputs failed is because they were relatively peaceful and broken up into clans.

The Rajputs and the Afghans/Turks in Afghanistan are similar in many ways : overweening 'warrior pride', broken up into clans and simply unable to harvest the combined might of their region.

The notable difference is, Afghans ( including the Turks in Afghanistan) were in continuous warfare with each other, while the Rajputs hardly ever fought each other.

So we see, from Ghazni to Ghori, to Durrani - when a particular clan rose to apex power amongst the Afghans, they had a combat-experienced, veteran army at their disposal. This army would go east and west, conquer in India, conquer in Iranian plateau/Central Asia - till the same clan warfare tore them apart or they got whacked by an external power (in case of the Afghans, it was usually the Iranians/Central Asian turks).

Rajputs however, hardly ever fought each other and mostly defended their lands from foreign invasions - usually muslim invasions coming from Afghanistan- individually.
A few times that they did throw together a coalition, it was still made up of Rajputs who were largely at peace with each other and thus, put out a green army.

Contrast this with the predecessors/ancestors of the Rajputs - The Gujjar-Pratiharas.
Unlike the Rajputs, the Pratiharas were mired in a near-continuous war with their two powerful neighbors - the Rashtrakuta empire and the Pal Empire. (This period in subcontinental history is known as the Kannauj triangle, as it involved 200+ years of warfare for control of that city).

So when the Arab Caliphate army came romping through, the Pratiharas were able to whack them and stop the Arab expansion east - because when they threw together their coalition, it was made up of veteran troops resulting from this near-continuous warfare.

True, near the end, the very thing that lead the Pratiharas to beat the Arabs was the reason for their downfall - the never-ending war with the richer regions of India ( Deccan- Pratiharas and most of the Ganges- Pals) ultimately sapped their strength and lead to fragmentation of royal authority.

But IMO, the reason the Rajputs themselves got whacked so often and so much has to do with their relative inexperience in warfare along with being very clan-divided.
 
"Caste system" is a word given by Portuguese from their casta.

They didn't realized that Bharat has a system of Varna and Jaati

Varna means group .
Jaati means profession aka work aka your job.

Originally people had rights to change their Varna as well as their Jati (work)., later by 15th century it became very bad so that people were not allowed to change their varna (group where you are born) and/or their profession (Brahmin son would always become Brahim while person who is a farmer his son will become farmer and his daughter will marry only into farming family).

Many of the Hindu sages who wrote Vedas were born of ordinary people and became Brahmins.

for example Ved Vyas who was born in a fisherman caste wrote/compiled Mahabharta and became Brahmin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyasa


It does not change a lot if name of caste system given by Portuguese or not. Either Hindu religion, or Hindus themselves were totally responsible for this system.

The origins of 4 groups (varna) was present in Vedic Indian society, along with the "untouchables" (modern Dalits). I don't think that the untouchables were even allowed to change their varna even in the ancient times.

And I don't think that "Jati" means "work". Rather Varna is closer to "work", while groups were founded on the bases of work. Jati means more of "birth".

The religions were not the same from the 1st day, but they "evolved" with time. It may be that people were allowed to change their Varna in earlier stages of Hinduism, but for sure "No Foreign" influence was involved in this evolution where indeed caste/varna system became the ultimate law.

Due to this evolved Hinduism, only Kshatriyas fought the invaders, while Brahmins, Veshyas and Shuddars and the "untouchables" were no where present in the wars (may be sometimes Brahmins/Veshyas fought alongside Kshatriyas, but "untouchables" were even not worthy of fighting along side the high caste Hindus).

Therefore, Hindus of India have themselves to be blamed for all this caste/varna system which led to all these EVILS in the Indian society.
 
With all due respects to you, I don't believe this is true at all.

But for some reason, lots of Hindus whom I met online believe caste could be changed.

If only I had a dollar every time I heard this argument, I would be a billionaire by now.

He is true in what he says. The Gupta emperors were brahmins, the Nanda Dynasty shudras so on and so forth.
 
He is true in what he says. The Gupta emperors were brahmins, the Nanda Dynasty shudras so on and so forth.

These were only the "Exceptions" and that too in the distant past of Hindu Religion. But as this religion evolved, then things became more and more difficult and Varna classes became stronger and stronger and people were not able to change them.

Especially, untouchables were perhaps never allowed to change their varna even in the ancient times. The change of varna may be limited to the 4 groups (Brahmins, Kshatariyas, Vesh, Shuddars), and that too in the beginning, but the untouchables (present day Dallits) were not included in it.

The outside invaders had no role in the Evils of Caste System which evolved in Hindu Dharam, but Hindus were fully responsible for that.
 
He is true in what he says. The Gupta emperors were brahmins, the Nanda Dynasty shudras so on and so forth.

Ji nahin. There's no concrete proof available for Guptas being Brahmins.
Definitely Kshatriyas. Chandragupta 1st married a licchhavi princess who were a powerful Kshatriya dynasty of himalayan foothills and neither they made any claims of being Brahmins.
Satvahanas and Shungas otoh openly boasted their Brahminical origins.
 
To answer the OP:

The reason the Rajputs failed is because they were relatively peaceful and broken up into clans.

The Rajputs and the Afghans/Turks in Afghanistan are similar in many ways : overweening 'warrior pride', broken up into clans and simply unable to harvest the combined might of their region.

The notable difference is, Afghans ( including the Turks in Afghanistan) were in continuous warfare with each other, while the Rajputs hardly ever fought each other.

So we see, from Ghazni to Ghori, to Durrani - when a particular clan rose to apex power amongst the Afghans, they had a combat-experienced, veteran army at their disposal. This army would go east and west, conquer in India, conquer in Iranian plateau/Central Asia - till the same clan warfare tore them apart or they got whacked by an external power (in case of the Afghans, it was usually the Iranians/Central Asian turks).

Rajputs however, hardly ever fought each other and mostly defended their lands from foreign invasions - usually muslim invasions coming from Afghanistan- individually.
A few times that they did throw together a coalition, it was still made up of Rajputs who were largely at peace with each other and thus, put out a green army.

Contrast this with the predecessors/ancestors of the Rajputs - The Gujjar-Pratiharas.
Unlike the Rajputs, the Pratiharas were mired in a near-continuous war with their two powerful neighbors - the Rashtrakuta empire and the Pal Empire. (This period in subcontinental history is known as the Kannauj triangle, as it involved 200+ years of warfare for control of that city).

So when the Arab Caliphate army came romping through, the Pratiharas were able to whack them and stop the Arab expansion east - because when they threw together their coalition, it was made up of veteran troops resulting from this near-continuous warfare.

True, near the end, the very thing that lead the Pratiharas to beat the Arabs was the reason for their downfall - the never-ending war with the richer regions of India ( Deccan- Pratiharas and most of the Ganges- Pals) ultimately sapped their strength and lead to fragmentation of royal authority.

But IMO, the reason the Rajputs themselves got whacked so often and so much has to do with their relative inexperience in warfare along with being very clan-divided.
Muloghonto my dear friend you seem to get confused between Gujjars and Gurjara.
Now a days the term is used interchangeably but in the ancient times it wasn't the case with Gurjara denoting the ancient land of modern day South West Rajasthan and northern Gujarat while Gujjars being a pastoral nomadic tribe. Pratihars/Parihars were agnivanshi rajputs who used Gurjara to to denote the land where they ruled. There are still many communities in Rajasthan who use it such as Gurjar Gaur Brahmins of Bikaner and Jodhpur who originally came from this land .
Pratihars although started declining in around 11th century AD , their power didn't completely get extinguished and they continued to rule around the Mandore region (Capital of Marwar before Jodhpur came into existence) . After failing to effectively deal with the constant Turkish incursions into their territory , they sought an alliance with the Rathores who has just migrated to the region from Kannauj a century ago.
Rao Chunda , the Rathore prince married the daughter of Pratihar chief and received Mandore in dowry.
The same Pratihars still live in that region and uses the surname Inda. I would know it since my cousin is married in one of their families.
 
It may be for you. But for many honour is of utmost importance.

WoW ! what a contrast isnt it !! A great debate undoubtedly.

- ethics/honour/Death OR dishonored Life/Victory at all cost
- you surrender to a far superior army and survive or fight with them and die
- Everything is fair in war - so cheat, do everything possible to win and finally win OR fight a losing battle, die, get butchered following dharma/rules/honor etc.

Most people will not understand the other side of the debate but better to learn that winning is everything :-(
 
It does not change a lot if name of caste system given by Portuguese or not. Either Hindu religion, or Hindus themselves were totally responsible for this system.

The origins of 4 groups (varna) was present in Vedic Indian society, along with the "untouchables" (modern Dalits). I don't think that the untouchables were even allowed to change their varna even in the ancient times.

And I don't think that "Jati" means "work". Rather Varna is closer to "work", while groups were founded on the bases of work. Jati means more of "birth".

The religions were not the same from the 1st day, but they "evolved" with time. It may be that people were allowed to change their Varna in earlier stages of Hinduism, but for sure "No Foreign" influence was involved in this evolution where indeed caste/varna system became the ultimate law.

Due to this evolved Hinduism, only Kshatriyas fought the invaders, while Brahmins, Veshyas and Shuddars and the "untouchables" were no where present in the wars (may be sometimes Brahmins/Veshyas fought alongside Kshatriyas, but "untouchables" were even not worthy of fighting along side the high caste Hindus).

Therefore, Hindus of India have themselves to be blamed for all this caste/varna system which led to all these EVILS in the Indian society.

First of all Hinduism-Sikhism-Budhism-Jainism are Dharam and not religion.

Religion means "Code to follow"
Dharam means "Doing the righteous thing"

Jati is indeed work.

Jati of Jats are farmers
Jati of Gujjar/Yadavs are cow herders and sell milk
Jati of Nai are barbers
Jati of Luhar are Iron Smith
Jati of Julaha are weavers

The all of the above except for Jats are classified into the Varna of Shudra (as they are artisans and work with their hands).

All business people (people who buy produce/products of above people and sell them) are varna of Vaishvs.

All Soldiers are Kshtriyas (Jats when they leave their fields and join armed forces become Kshtriyas).

All people who study, take care of temples, write books, etc are/were Brahmins.

But in 2018 there is no such thing anymore in India. I see Brahmins selling shoes while a person of caste of Chamar (skinning the dead animals) is a doctor/academician. Modi the Jati of Teli (Oil producer) is India's Prime minister.





So! Indian Dharams are not like Islam, Christianity or Judaism.

99% of the world population follows only 2 thoughts Indian and from Jerusalem.
Indian Dharams are at least 10,000+ years old while Middle eastern are relatively new.
Indian Dharams have continuously evolved and changed with time.

People in Pakistan need to upgrade their knowledge about India. India has left them way way behind., Indian society is very modern and hard working. Nobody cares about Jati or Varna today.
 
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