Why the Rajputs failed miserably in battle for centuries?

[raju420]

These were only the "Exceptions" and that too in the distant past of Hindu Religion. But as this religion evolved, then things became more and more difficult and Varna classes became stronger and stronger and people were not able to change them.

Especially, untouchables were perhaps never allowed to change their varna even in the ancient times. The change of varna may be limited to the 4 groups (Brahmins, Kshatariyas, Vesh, Shuddars), and that too in the beginning, but the untouchables (present day Dallits) were not included in it.

The outside invaders had no role in the Evils of Caste System which evolved in Hindu Dharam, but Hindus were fully responsible for that.

You are ill informed., before Manusmriti was written (around 7th Century) people could change their Jati and Varna!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

First of all Hinduism-Sikhism-Budhism-Jainism are Dharam and not religion.

Religion means "Code to follow"
Dharam means "Doing the righteous thing"

Jati is indeed work.

Jati of Jats are farmers
Jati of Gujjar/Yadavs are cow herders and sell milk
Jati of Nai are barbers
Jati of Luhar are Iron Smith
Jati of Julaha are weavers

The all of the above except for Jats are classified into the Varna of Shudra (as they are artisans and work with their hands).

All business people (people who buy produce/products of above people and sell them) are varna of Vaishvs.

All Soldiers are Kshtriyas (Jats when they leave their fields and join armed forces become Kshtriyas).

All people who study, take care of temples, write books, etc are/were Brahmins.

But in 2018 there is no such thing anymore in India. I see Brahmins selling shoes while a person of caste of Chamar (skinning the dead animals) is a doctor/academician. Modi the Jati of Teli (Oil producer) is India's Prime minister.





So! Indian Dharams are not like Islam, Christianity or Judaism.

99% of the world population follows only 2 thoughts Indian and from Jerusalem.
Indian Dharams are at least 10,000+ years old while Middle eastern are relatively new.
Indian Dharams have continuously evolved and changed with time.

People in Pakistan need to upgrade their knowledge about India. India has left them way way behind., Indian society is very modern and hard working. Nobody cares about Jati or Varna today.

Reading this thread I would suggest plenty of people still care about it, including you.

 

[srh]

An interesting piece by scroll.in, perhaps the Karni Sena and their supporters would care to offer a rebuttal - once they're done with attacking school buses, and making death threats of course.



https://scroll.in/article/728636/wh...puts-failed-miserably-in-battle-for-centuries

so basically Rajputs are hugely overrated; looks like everybody beat them up?

 

[Alam_dar]

You are ill informed., before Manusmriti was written (around 7th Century) people could change their Jati and Varna!

I think you have made a mistake about Manusmriti.
The different scripts of Manu Simriti were written between 200 BC and 400 AD.
I don't think any one claims that Manu Smiriti was written in 7th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manusmriti

Moreover, the varna system became stronger much before Manu Smiriti.
Gautama Buddha came 500-600 BC, and he was critical of varna system and didn't believe in it.

And may be higher caste people were able to change their varna, but this practice was not common and specially their is almost NO record of lower caste Shudars ever allowed to change varna to higher caste Brahmin.

And case of Avarnas (untouchables) was even worse than the Shudars and I don't think they were ever allowed to change their varna.


Actually, even in Muslim country like Pakistan, it was almost impossible for the people like sweepers to eat with normal Muslims. Sweeper jobs are only reserved for the Christians in Pakistan.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Moreover, the varna system became stronger much before Manu Smiriti.
Gautama Buddha came 500-600 BC, and he was critical of varna system and didn't believe in it.

And may be higher caste people were able to change their varna, but this practice was not common and specially their is almost NO record of lower caste Shudars ever allowed to change varna to higher caste Brahmin.

Gautam Buddha was not against caste system, he was against it being hereditary. You can read his sermons in Vasala Sutta.

Also there is scientific proof that caste was not rigid (read the study by harvard medical school) till the gupta era and it was the gupta period when it became crystallised and endogamous.

 

[raju420]

I think you have made a mistake about Manusmriti.
The different scripts of Manu Simriti were written between 200 BC and 400 AD.
I don't think any one claims that Manu Smiriti was written in 7th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manusmriti

Moreover, the varna system became stronger much before Manu Smiriti.
Gautama Buddha came 500-600 BC, and he was critical of varna system and didn't believe in it.

And may be higher caste people were able to change their varna, but this practice was not common and specially their is almost NO record of lower caste Shudars ever allowed to change varna to higher caste Brahmin.

And case of Avarnas (untouchables) was even worse than the Shudars and I don't think they were ever allowed to change their varna.


Actually, even in Muslim country like Pakistan, it was almost impossible for the people like sweepers to eat with normal Muslims. Sweeper jobs are only reserved for the Christians in Pakistan.

Since 1947 it has totally changed in India. I observed my grand mother insisting on separate utensils for sweepers and other home help., not anymore.

This is totally non-existent now., my own mother has a servant from Balmiki Jati (untouchables). She does everything (including cooking food). My mother is also funding the 4 years old daughter of her.


Government of India in 1960s first abolished the zamindari (Feudalism) system along with Kingdoms. Then the land ceiling reforms of 1970s restricted the land to 18 acres per person.

This resulted in getting rid of Jati along with slow buildup of Human development Index.

Interestingly this HDI was created by Pakistan's Mahboob Haq along with India's Amartya Sen. In 2018 Pakistan is at .538 while India is at .609.

 

[TM Riddle]

so basically Rajputs are hugely overrated; looks like everybody beat them up?

Yup.

 

[srh]

Yup.

Have no grievances whatsoever. For God the only criteria to judge a human is piousness as last prophet Mohammad (SAW) mentioned in his last sermon. You can be from a very prestigious lineage and still fail in the life after death. Or you can be from a very infamous lineage and still succeed in the life after death. And remember the life after death is the everlasting life.

 

[Alam_dar]

Gautam Buddha was not against caste system, he was against it being hereditary. You can read his sermons in Vasala Sutta.

Doesn't it proves itself that till the time of Buddha this caste system had already become "Hereditary" and that is why Buddha had to criticize and condemn it?

Also there is scientific proof that caste was not rigid (read the study by harvard medical school) till the gupta era and it was the gupta period when it became crystallised and endogamous.

I don't know about any scientific study by Harward Medical School.

 

[Alam_dar]

Since 1947 it has totally changed in India. I observed my grand mother insisting on separate utensils for sweepers and other home help., not anymore.

This is totally non-existent now., my own mother has a servant from Balmiki Jati (untouchables). She does everything (including cooking food). My mother is also funding the 4 years old daughter of her.


Government of India in 1960s first abolished the zamindari (Feudalism) system along with Kingdoms. Then the land ceiling reforms of 1970s restricted the land to 18 acres per person.

This resulted in getting rid of Jati along with slow buildup of Human development Index.

Interestingly this HDI was created by Pakistan's Mahboob Haq along with India's Amartya Sen. In 2018 Pakistan is at .538 while India is at .609.

Yes it has been changed. Good. But Hindu Religion played no role in it, but it was due to the modern world where Europe brought the concept of Human Equality to whole world by abolishing the slavery and thus Hindu Caste System was also severely criticized the human right activists.

And Islam also played no role in abolishing of Slavery. All these awards goes to the modern world which abolished these evil practices of slavery and caste system.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Doesn't it proves itself that till the time of Buddha this caste system had already become "Hereditary" and that is why Buddha had to criticize and condemn it?



I don't know about any scientific study by Harward Medical School.

Yes, it proves that caste system was corrupted during Buddha's time, at least in the part he was living in, which was nepal and northern UP. But the distinction should be made that he only criticized it being hereditary, so he supported the original pure form of caste system. Let the self hating hindus be aware, that Buddha, the foremost intellectual of the past few millennials supported the caste system in its original form.

You can read the scientific study on the caste system by Harvard Medical School here: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/geneti...cient-india-began-about-2000-years-ago-8-9-13

 

[Alam_dar]

Yes, it proves that caste system was corrupted during Buddha's time, at least in the part he was living in, which was nepal and northern UP. But the distinction should be made that he only criticized it being hereditary, so he supported the original pure form of caste system. Let the self hating hindus be aware, that Buddha, the foremost intellectual of the past few millennials supported the caste system in its original form.

Are you really sure that Buddha supported ANY caste system (even if it was the original caste system)?

What was this original caste system and why it was beneficial to kept it alive?

Did Buddha introduced that original caste system in Buddhism too?

You can read the scientific study on the caste system by Harvard Medical School here: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/geneti...cient-india-began-about-2000-years-ago-8-9-13

I read the research. I think the "title" given to this research in this article is false.

The article is written by Mr. Carolyn Y. Johnson, who gave this title of "Caste System in India".

While the research was done by Professor David Reich of Harvard Medical School, and his research was not about the caste system, but about the "North India" and "South India" divide. The details of this research is present here:

https://www.boston.com/news/science...m-in-ancient-india-began-about-2000-years-ago

And here one reference from this research which makes it clear that it was not about caste system, but about North and South divide:

//
Reich has examined hundreds of thousands of regions in people’s genomes and found evidence that the northern and southern populations mixed around 1,900 to 4,200 years ago.
//

Nowhere in this research Reich said that he is researching about 4 Varnas (Brahmins, Kshatariyas, Vaishyas, Shudars...and the 5th one Avarnas, the untouchable Dallits). But whole research is about North and South.

I believe that this research is incomplete as it didn't consider the Issue of slavery in India.

In ancient India, slavery seems to more common and "DAS" and "DASI" system was widespread.

And the Indian masters were sleeping with large numbers of Dasies, and those Dasies belonged to other Varna/Jati. Therefore it could have also effected the admixture in ancient India.

But then came Buddha, who criticized the slave system and then Ashoka (follower of Buddha) abolished the Bazars of slavery for the first time in Indian History (actually it happened for the first time in Human History that slavery Bazars were abolished).

Therefore, those Bazars of slavery could have been a major reason of admixture before Ashoka. The time line of this research also fits upon Ashoka as he came about 2200 years ago, and gradually the slavery reduced after him.

 

[raju420]

Yes it has been changed. Good. But Hindu Religion played no role in it, but it was due to the modern world where Europe brought the concept of Human Equality to whole world by abolishing the slavery and thus Hindu Caste System was also severely criticized the human right activists.

And Islam also played no role in abolishing of Slavery. All these awards goes to the modern world which abolished these evil practices of slavery and caste system.

Once again! There is no such thing as "Hindu religion" Religion does not gets translated to Dharma. Correct translation of Religion is Sampardaya which means "Code of worship"

So! people of India follow Dharma (What is the right thing to do). Jains have their own Code of Worship, Sikhs have their own and Buddhist their own., just like Muslims and Christians have their own code of worship.

Dharmic people do not care about Code of Worship but we do care about ethics. People who believe in lying, deceit, lust, anger, attachment to material things, ego, false pride, etc are not dharmic. This means that people can have different code of worship but if they are not following Truth, contentment, patience, compassion, righteousness they will never achieve anything after they are dead.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The article has beautifully captured main reasons for Rajput kings' embarrassing record in battles. Whatever is left to be said has probably been covered in Padmaavat's trailer where King Khilji is seen as savage and ready for war leading from the front army general cum prince whereas Ratan Singh can't seem to get out of his bedroom and make-up sessions with his wife. Maa Padmaavati is dressing him up, putting kajal in his eyes, putting topi on his head like a nanha munna school going baby. Its hard to even imagine this pampered prince looked after himself from school bullies let alone Khilji the barbarian savage.

Having said that, as a promoter of love and peace and a believer in unity of humanity i neither support caste/religion based machosim showoff nor i support war mongering.

Humanity must look into the future and work on improving itself rather than digging old graves and hurting its chances of growth.

With love,
Your Bhaijaan.

 

[troodon]

The article has beautifully captured main reasons for Rajput kings' embarrassing record in battles. Whatever is left to be said has probably been covered in Padmaavat's trailer where King Khilji is seen as savage and ready for war leading from the front army general cum prince whereas Ratan Singh can't seem to get out of his bedroom and make-up sessions with his wife. Maa Padmaavati is dressing him up, putting kajal in his eyes, putting topi on his head like a nanha munna school going baby. Its hard to even imagine this pampered prince looked after himself from school bullies let alone Khilji the barbarian savage.

Having said that, as a promoter of love and peace and a believer in unity of humanity i neither support caste/religion based machosim showoff nor i support war mongering.

Humanity must look into the future and work on improving itself rather than digging old graves and hurting its chances of growth.

With love,
Your Bhaijaan.

It may be Bollywood's over dramatization of the love between Padmavati and Raja Ratan Singh.

There is no unity between various kingdoms of India. If the whole of India or at least the entire Northwest of India stayed united in battling the central asian and Turkic marauders, then nobody would stand a chance against them.

The same fragmented kingdoms trying to pull each others pants down was cleverly used by both British as well as Mughals and various other invaders. Story till today is true. Indians are too fragmented to make any progress or defend themselves from foreign forces.

People need to drink nationalistic gatorade to achieve pan equality feeling in India. But overly nationalistic feelings can be dangerous too.

 

[shaz619]

Rajputs were never the sharpest tools and they didn't know how to fight either, they were not combat people exactly. The combat mentality was there though and they were pretty good at taking beatings

 

[Alam_dar]

Once again! There is no such thing as "Hindu religion" Religion does not gets translated to Dharma. Correct translation of Religion is Sampardaya which means "Code of worship"

So! people of India follow Dharma (What is the right thing to do). Jains have their own Code of Worship, Sikhs have their own and Buddhist their own., just like Muslims and Christians have their own code of worship.

Dharmic people do not care about Code of Worship but we do care about ethics. People who believe in lying, deceit, lust, anger, attachment to material things, ego, false pride, etc are not dharmic. This means that people can have different code of worship but if they are not following Truth, contentment, patience, compassion, righteousness they will never achieve anything after they are dead.

Good, but at least for me still it is only a theoretic claim which has almost no value, while practically Hinduism is a religion, followed by those who believe in the teachings of Vedas and Puranas etc.

Gautama Buddha didn't believe in those Vedas, thus he didn't called himself Hindu, but his teachings about code of conduct were called the Buddhism.

Almost all the religions gave more or less the same moral codes.