Will Narendra Modi make India a Hindu state?

[cricketjoshila]

Black days ahead for India. We're gripped by a tyrannical ruler with a pathetic ideology who wants to destroy all the institutions. Even the almighty God can't save India now. Time to flee the country!

When are you doing it?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Don't know about that but he will definitely make India a banana state the way things are going.

Can you tell how?

 

[Ram Shekhar]

When are you doing it?

Maybe I will. I don't need to answer to you. Now start acting like the typical BJP goon and ask me to go to Pakistan. I think the latter is now a much better country with a much better leader than India under fascist Modi.

 

[last_knight]

Chances are high now...

Unchained religious-groups eventually overpower institutions and establish influence over majority of infrastructure and opportunists exploit these groups. Pakistan experienced it for at least 2 decades from Mid 80s, post Zia. Conflicts, properties, everything that is normally decided by Police & courts and institutions was being decided out-of-institutions, by religious groups.
For now Modi is committed enough to shield hindutva groups so Indians aren't realising the consequences just yet. It will start exploding towards end of Modi's term.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Maybe I will. I don't need to answer to you. Now start acting like the typical BJP goon and ask me to go to Pakistan. I think the latter is now a much better country with a much better leader than India under fascist Modi.

Why should i ask a anonymous poster who i dont know is from which place to go to Pakistan?

You said "Time to flee". You can flee from anywhere to anywhere.

 

[Ram Shekhar]

Why should i ask a anonymous poster who i dont know is from which place to go to Pakistan?

You said "Time to flee". You can flee from anywhere to anywhere.

Yes indeed time to flee for all those who still hold secular values and all the minorities.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes indeed time to flee for all those who still hold secular values and all the minorities.

Can you define what is secularism and how it has been violated?

 

[Ram Shekhar]

Can you define what is secularism and how it has been violated?

The minorities especially Muslims in India have been living in great fear in the last 5 years or so. Is it just a coincidence that the fascist BJP is in power during the same time? There have also been several lynchings of Muslim men in India in recent times.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The minorities especially Muslims in India have been living in great fear in the last 5 years or so. Is it just a coincidence that the fascist BJP is in power during the same time? There have also been several lynchings of Muslim men in India in recent times.

We have had several lynchings of hindu men too in India. So are Hindus under fear as well?

Can you name a few legislations that Bjp has passed that is anti muslim?

 

[Ram Shekhar]

We have had several lynchings of hindu men too in India. So are Hindus under fear as well?

Can you name a few legislations that Bjp has passed that is anti muslim?

Isn't it true that most of India's intellectuals protested against the fascist Modi regime? I'm an Indian and I know how Muslims feel on the ground. Legislations don't matter.

 

[JaDed]

Very interesting article here but might be little biased but lets be more cautious of BJP.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thewire.in/communalism/hindu-rashtra-india-constitution/amp/

“The change from a constitutional republic to a majoritarian state need not entail a change either in the constitutional framework or in our national symbols.”

 

[Technics 1210]

It is apparent in this thread that most people (mainly Indian) do not even know what Secularism is. Tragic.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Isn't it true that most of India's intellectuals protested against the fascist Modi regime? I'm an Indian and I know how Muslims feel on the ground. Legislations don't matter.

Who are the intellectuals? Whats their political affliation? Whats their political leaning?

How muslims feel? How many have fled India? Infact muslims from neighbouring countries like BD are pouring in despite efforts to stop them.

So law doesnot matter. What matters then? I thought secularism meant separation of state and religion and having laws that are not dictated by a religion.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Very interesting article here but might be little biased but lets be more cautious of BJP.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thewire.in/communalism/hindu-rashtra-india-constitution/amp/

“The change from a constitutional republic to a majoritarian state need not entail a change either in the constitutional framework or in our national symbols.”

Can you tell me how the Citizenship bill and NRC are wrong?

What is a majoritaririan state? Do people want to devoid hindus of their rights just because they are in a majority?

Secularism is everyone's burden to carry. A muslim cannot demand that his personal life be governed by Sharia and then say that everything has to be secular. Similarly hindus cannot demand that people not eat beef and then say lets have Uniform civil laws.

 

[JaDed]

Can you tell me how the Citizenship bill and NRC are wrong?

What is a majoritaririan state? Do people want to devoid hindus of their rights just because they are in a majority?

Secularism is everyone's burden to carry. A muslim cannot demand that his personal life be governed by Sharia and then say that everything has to be secular. Similarly hindus cannot demand that people not eat beef and then say lets have Uniform civil laws.

I do believe in one country one law, take out beef ban and see how people will cry then, have never said a word against uniform law all for it.

Citizenship bill under Congress or BJP will be two extremes, we both know the extremes you can justify how you want it, eventhough I support removal of 370 , I have no misconception as to why BJP did it, they just invested in future Hindu votes.

I only care about India, Hindu priests and castes and that ideology ,I don’t care about.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I do believe in one country one law, take out beef ban and see how people will cry then, have never said a word against uniform law all for it.

Citizenship bill under Congress or BJP will be two extremes, we both know the extremes you can justify how you want it, eventhough I support removal of 370 , I have no misconception as to why BJP did it, they just invested in future Hindu votes.

I only care about India, Hindu priests and castes and that ideology ,I don’t care about.

Cow slaugter ban laws came only after Nehru had made the blunder of keeping muslim personal laws out of the ambit of civil laws.

Can you give a reason why muslims from Pak or BD needs to be given refugee status and then citizenship? In 1947 they wanted a separate country. The hindus and other minorities mostly migrated to India and are still migrating.

Now some muslims too want to come to India due to better economic conditions and security condition. Why allow them? They got themselves a country,they must deal with their problems there. India can be expected to give away the land to muslims and then also take the population of muslims from these areas.

How is 370 only about Hindus?

 

[Ram Shekhar]

Who are the intellectuals? Whats their political affliation? Whats their political leaning?

Why should it matter? The bright minds of country have felt the conditions in the country are deteriorating and they raised their voice. They should be applauded if anything.

How muslims feel? How many have fled India? Infact muslims from neighbouring countries like BD are pouring in despite efforts to stop them.

Ok now that some poor Bangladeshis have crosse border, let's just assume our country is a safe country for Muslims. Isn't it true that some of our BJP leaders said only Hindus from Pakistan or Bangladesh are welcome in India and others not?

So law doesnot matter. What matters then? I thought secularism meant separation of state and religion and having laws that are not dictated by a religion.

Law matters but some of the judges also expressed concern in India. Shameful really.

 

[JaDed]

Cow slaugter ban laws came only after Nehru had made the blunder of keeping muslim personal laws out of the ambit of civil laws.

Can you give a reason why muslims from Pak or BD needs to be given refugee status and then citizenship? In 1947 they wanted a separate country. The hindus and other minorities mostly migrated to India and are still migrating.

Now some muslims too want to come to India due to better economic conditions and security condition. Why allow them? They got themselves a country,they must deal with their problems there. India can be expected to give away the land to muslims and then also take the population of muslims from these areas.

How is 370 only about Hindus?

India is predominately Hindu, abolishing the article will allow mainland population to settle there who will again have a majorly Hindu as a religion.

Muslims from BD eventhough i might agree are many, but they are not the only ones to get harmed, but the narrative is that and suits the agenda but again as I said the census of who is BD Muslim or not will change on party in power, cannot trust any party.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India is predominately Hindu, abolishing the article will allow mainland population to settle there who will again have a majorly Hindu as a religion.

Muslims from BD eventhough i might agree are many, but they are not the only ones to get harmed, but the narrative is that and suits the agenda but again as I said the census of who is BD Muslim or not will change on party in power, cannot trust any party.

Why this concern was not shown when mainly hindu and tribal north east was being converted to christian by missionaries? Why the same was not the concern in Kerala?

Why is the concern always about people becoming hindu or Hindus becoming a majority in XYZ place?

The NRC is being done under the supreme court. No party controls it.

How is it that while Hindus from other parts of India settling in J and K is an issue, but muslims from BD changing the demography of Assam isnt a problem.

You see how the so called liberal secular lobby of India is actually hypocritical and hence their narrative is now no more getting through to a large number of Indians.

 

[JaDed]

Why this concern was not shown when mainly hindu and tribal north east was being converted to christian by missionaries? Why the same was not the concern in Kerala?

Why is the concern always about people becoming hindu or Hindus becoming a majority in XYZ place?

The NRC is being done under the supreme court. No party controls it.

How is it that while Hindus from other parts of India settling in J and K is an issue, but muslims from BD changing the demography of Assam isnt a problem.

You see how the so called liberal secular lobby of India is actually hypocritical and hence their narrative is now no more getting through to a large number of Indians.

Conversion and settlement are two different issues, casteism exists in India, and if the castes that have discriminated want to move into different sect it shouldn’t be an issue.

Liberal secular lobby is not hypocritical, Congress and their supporters were hypocritical, equating Liberals to Congress isn’t correct as Congress moves based on the flow socialist, capitalist, centrist I don’t even know what they are now.

I have no issues with Hindus going and setting in Kashmir, I said i support the abolishing of 370, all I mean is I have no misconception as to why BJP did this, coz its benefits India Im fine with it, demographic changes occur around the world.

On Assam and NRC:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...-list-supreme-court-august-1572618-2019-07-23

‘The Centre and Assam had earlier sought from the Supreme Court extension of the July 31 deadline for finalisation of the NRC. The Centre and Assam made the request alleging wrongful inclusions and exclusions in the National Register of Citizens.’

 

[pillionrider]

Why this concern was not shown when mainly hindu and tribal north east was being converted to christian by missionaries? Why the same was not the concern in Kerala?

Why is the concern always about people becoming hindu or Hindus becoming a majority in XYZ place?

The NRC is being done under the supreme court. No party controls it.

How is it that while Hindus from other parts of India settling in J and K is an issue, but muslims from BD changing the demography of Assam isnt a problem.

Your point about Assam is valid. But conversion of Hindus isn't. Until uppercaste Hindus stop treating lower castes and Dalits like lowlifes, they have no moral right to complain about conversion which frees a human being. Not completely I concede, cuz casteism exists in an unspoken way in Christianity and Islam, at least in India.

North East missionary work is a point, but where did you get Kerala from? I understand the BJP is really sore about the way they were shut out of Kerala and the fact that Rahul Gandhi won such a crushing victory there, but what conversion are you talking about. The Muslims and Christians in Kerala have been so, for thousands of years. In fact, most of the Christians in Kerala have been Christians from around the time of Shankaracharya. Goan Christians were mostly converted during the Portuguese era but that too is hundreds of years back.

On Kerala - BJP didn't win TN either, but I've been noticing of late, Kerala has become the new target and it has to be due to their significant Christian and Muslim populations

 

[Swashbuckler]

Constitutionally he can't. Secularism is a basic feature of our constitution, meaning it can not be amended by the Parliament. Supreme Court has the power to review and strike down constitutional amendments and acts enacted by the Parliament which conflict with or seek to alter this basic structure of the Constitution.

The Supreme Court laid down the "Basic Structure Doctrine" in the Kesavananda Bharati case (1973). According to this, some of the provisions of the Constitution of India form its basic structure which are not amendable by Parliament by exercise of its constituent power under Article 368. Some of the basic features are supremacy of the constitution, fundamental rights, secularism, parliamentary system of government, separation of powers (legislative, executive, judiciary) etc.

 

[Swashbuckler]

It is apparent in this thread that most people (mainly Indian) do not even know what Secularism is. Tragic.

Indian secularism is different than the western concept of secularism. In the latter case it is separation of church (religion) from state, of course with freedom of religion to the individuals. In the Indian context (inspired by Mahatma Gandhi) it means the state must treat all religions equally and make laws that not only acknowledge religious groups but actively pass laws to promote and protect all of them. The Indian version is controversial because sometimes religious laws may supersede state laws, this is why bringing in UCC (Uniform Civil Code) is a stiff challenge.

Secularism wasn't originally there, Indira Gandhi inserted "secularism" and "socialism" in the preamble in 42nd amendment (1976). Ambedkar (father of Indian constitution) didn't insert "secularism" because he felt it was self evident.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Constitutionally he can't. Secularism is a basic feature of our constitution, meaning it can not be amended by the Parliament. Supreme Court has the power to review and strike down constitutional amendments and acts enacted by the Parliament which conflict with or seek to alter this basic structure of the Constitution.

The Supreme Court laid down the "Basic Structure Doctrine" in the Kesavananda Bharati case (1973). According to this, some of the provisions of the Constitution of India form its basic structure which are not amendable by Parliament by exercise of its constituent power under Article 368. Some of the basic features are supremacy of the constitution, fundamental rights, secularism, parliamentary system of government, separation of powers (legislative, executive, judiciary) etc.

indian constitution doesn't have fundamental rights. It only has fine print and restrictions on fundamental rights. fundamental means even the state cannot take away that right, but indian constitution is as honourable as a toilet paper roll, that a fundamental right was abolished in the past.

 

[HussainRx8]

"All of us in our colony felt that Modi would allow us to kill Muslims"

This article is a bit dated, but it's good to remind ourselves of what we're dealing with in India.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/world/asia/india-yogi-adityanath-bjp-modi.html

LUCKNOW, India — A Hindu warrior-priest has been chosen to rule India’s most populous state, and the cable news channels cannot get enough of him. Yogi, as everyone calls him, is so ascetic and incorruptible that he doesn’t use air-conditioners, they say. Yogi sleeps on a hard mattress on the floor. Yogi sometimes eats only an apple for dinner.

But the taproot of Yogi Adityanath’s popularity is in a more ominous place. As leader of a temple known for its militant Hindu supremacist tradition, he built an army of youths intent on avenging historic wrongs by Muslims, whom he has called “a crop of two-legged animals that has to be stopped.” At one rally he cried out, “We are all preparing for religious war!”

Adityanath (pronounced Ah-DIT-ya-nath) was an astonishing choice by Narendra Modi, India’s prime minister, who came into office three years ago promising to usher India into a new age of development and economic growth, and playing down any far-right Hindu agenda. But a populist drive to transform India into a “Hindu nation” has drowned out Mr. Modi’s development agenda, shrinking the economic and social space for the country’s 170 million Muslims.

Few decisions in Indian politics matter more than the selection of the chief minister of Uttar Pradesh, because the post is seen as a springboard for future prime ministers. At the age of 45, the diminutive, baby-faced Adityanath is receiving the kind of career-making attention that projects an Indian politician toward higher office.

“He is automatically on anybody’s list as a potential contender to succeed Modi,” said Sadanand Dhume, an India specialist at the American Enterprise Institute. “They have normalized someone who, three years ago, was considered too extreme to be minister of state for textiles. Everything has been normalized so quickly.”

[ABRIDGED]

Sonu Yadav, 24, of Gorakhpur, who has served in the group for five years, said he had been disappointed by Mr. Modi’s tenure.

“We voted for Modi because Yogi endorsed him, but we are disillusioned,” he said. He went on to refer to the 2002 riots in the state Mr. Modi led, which his critics say he allowed to rage for several days, leading to more than 1,000 deaths.

“All of us in our colony felt that Modi would allow us to kill Muslims,” he said. “Muslims were scared. But nothing happened. When Yogi became chief minister, they were scared again.”

Mr. Modi has denied any wrongdoing, and Supreme Court panels have rejected petitions to prosecute Mr. Modi in the riots for lack of evidence.

For now, as Adityanath establishes a more mainstream reputation, Mr. Yadav and his friends have been told by their group’s leadership to cease all violent activities and instead perform community service. Vijay Yadav, Sonu’s friend, openly chafed at the new orders.

“This thing is going on in Yogi’s head that my shirt should not get a stain,” he said. “I couldn’t care less for his stained shirt. I can’t do good work and avoid getting a stain.”

He noted, by way of example, the recent beating death of a 62-year-old Muslim man whom vigilantes abducted and interrogated about a neighbor’s alleged love affair with a Hindu girl.

Vijay Yadav’s comment on the man’s death was a local proverb: “Along with the wheat,” he said, “small insects will get crushed.”

 

[PakLFC]

Modi does want to convert all Muslims of India to Hinduism by 2021. They better get started, only 2 years left to convert 200 million people. The clock is ticking

 

[MenInG]

Police in southern India’s Bengaluru city have arrested an actor for a tweet in which he said the Hindutva ideology propagated by hardline Hindu nationalists in the country was “based on lies”.

Chetan Kumar was arrested on Tuesday by the Bengaluru police in Karnataka state and subsequently remanded by a local court to 14 days in judicial custody.

The actor, who is also an anti-caste activist, has been charged under sections including promoting enmity and outraging religious feelings, reported news agency Press Trust of India.

Police said the action against the 40-year-old actor was on the basis of a complaint filed by a member of the hardline Bajrang Dal group, reported the Deccan Herald newspaper.

Bajrang Dal is the youth wing of a group affiliated with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) organisation, which is considered the ideological parent of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party.

In a tweet on 20 March, the actor said: “Hindutva is built on lies and it can be defeated by truth, and that truth is equality.”


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hindutva is built on LIES<br><br>Savarkar: Indian ‘nation’ began when Rama defeated Ravana & returned to Ayodhya —> a lie<br><br>1992: Babri Masjid is ‘birthplace of Rama’ —> a lie<br><br>2023: Urigowda-Nanjegowda are ‘killers’ of Tipu—> a lie<br><br>Hindutva can be defeated by TRUTH—> truth is EQUALITY</p>— Chetan Kumar Ahimsa / ಚೇತನ್ ಅಹಿಂಸಾ (@ChetanAhimsa) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChetanAhimsa/status/1637676378819637249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...tp&cvid=673a1500a07345f1b78228804be9b0f2&ei=7