Will Naseem Shah go down same route as Mohammad Amir?

[MenInG]

The story so far looks and sounds familiar.

Young and extremely talented fast-bowler - talk of the town/country and a bright future being promised, with the world at his feet.

There will be people around him who will not want the best for him which could be a problem as he is young and impressionable, and from a humble background.

We all saw how the Mohammad Amir story turned out but can Naseem Shah avoid the same trap? Sounds improbable but that's what we thought earlier with Amir.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Or Hasan Ali route. Even Abbas was hyped a lot when in his first few years. They’ve been many off late. Pakistan has had difficulty managing fast bowling talent.

True test for Naseem would be to get 200+ wickets over a long test career. Even if he averages close to 30 he should be fine.

Only time will tell.

 

[jnaveen1980]

No. But fitness, workload, form many intangible factors dictate the career of a fast bowler. Not every fast bowling career ended in fairy tale.

 

[Titan24]

Awareness due to this incidents and a lot of anti corruption lectures will make sure that other young players dont follow the similar path. I think Naseem should be fine.

 

[Titan24]

Or Hasan Ali route. Even Abbas was hyped a lot when in his first few years. They’ve been many off late. Pakistan has had difficulty managing fast bowling talent.

True test for Naseem would be to get 200+ wickets over a long test career. Even if he averages close to 30 he should be fine.

Only time will tell.

People on PP talk about Hasan Ali like he is finished. He just had couple of really poor years in one format of the game and still did well in tests and T20s in those years. Yes he needs to work hard but no career is straight up, ups and downs are part of it. Shahaeen and Naseem can also have off years in their careers and that wont mean they are finished.

 

[leatherface58]

Or Hasan Ali route. Even Abbas was hyped a lot when in his first few years. They’ve been many off late. Pakistan has had difficulty managing fast bowling talent.

True test for Naseem would be to get 200+ wickets over a long test career. Even if he averages close to 30 he should be fine.

Only time will tell.

Abbas averages 20 in test cricket. What's wrong with him?

 

[BreadPakoda]

People on PP talk about Hasan Ali like he is finished. He just had couple of really poor years in one format of the game and still did well in tests and T20s in those years. Yes he needs to work hard but no career is straight up, ups and downs are part of it. Shahaeen and Naseem can also have off years in their careers and that wont mean they are finished.

He may not be finished but does he look like someone who will end up with 200+ test wickets?

 

[Shazzam]

I don’t get the same vibe from this bowler as I did with Amir. Yes he is young but thats about it. We will see how he does in the next five years.

 

[Usman Chadda]

He may not be finished but does he look like someone who will end up with 200+ test wickets?

If someone like Ishant Sharma can turn around his career, a Man-of-the-Tournament performer like Hasan Ali should be able to do so aswell. It's all about hard work and not doing bhangra at the border

 

[Maliq_Mudasir]

After listening his press conference, he seem to be more mature than the most of our so called seniors.

 

[Saj]

I keep in touch with Naseem on a regular basis and try to guide him as much as I can. He asks for advice, he asks a lot of questions and he appreciates guidance.

But at the end of the day, it's all about the people who are around him, which senior players are around him and guiding him. It's all about how impressionable he is.

So far, so good.

 

[BreadPakoda]

If someone like Ishant Sharma can turn around his career, a Man-of-the-Tournament performer like Hasan Ali should be able to do so aswell. It's all about hard work and not doing bhangra at the border

That’s the thing MIG is trying to highlight in the thread. Fast bowlers also need heart and the right attitude to succeed.

 

[AFM]

The team environment that Amir was introduced to was a lot more toxic than the current one.

I also think the Amir case will act as a deterrent to any future fast bowler.

 

[Titan24]

He may not be finished but does he look like someone who will end up with 200+ test wickets?

If he works hard than why not. He has decent skills with new ball can reverse the older ball can go upto mid 140s in pace. Has decent fitness and physique. Just needs to get his confidence back and get his rythm and lengths going as with his height he cant afford to be off the mark as often as we have seen in ODIs however he still maintained decently in tests. Looked much better than Amir and Wahab ever did in UAE vs NZ.

 

[Fahdi]

Abbas averages 20 in test cricket. What's wrong with him?

Proven to be a low bounce wicket specialist. If the bounce is higher than what you get in the subcontinent and England then he becomes extremely ineffective because he cannot attack the stumps at 128 kph without getting smacked.

 

[Titan24]

I keep in touch with Naseem on a regular basis and try to guide him as much as I can. He asks for advice, he asks a lot of questions and he appreciates guidance.

But at the end of the day, it's all about the people who are around him, which senior players are around him and guiding him. It's all about how impressionable he is.

So far, so good.

Glad to know. Surely you with your experience and seeing so many players developing or going sideways are a right person to be amongst the people he needs to get guidance from.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Great step up. Only 4 months back he was bowling to bunch of unknown under-19 Indian batsmen. Now he is a promising young test bowler.

 

[Bewal Express]

IA he will avoid the pitfalls of celebrity lifestyle, Ind Bookies and the injuries. My heart says surely it can't happen again, but my head says that it's inevitable. I said earlier that PCB need to get him a Mentor like Umar Gul to guide him but that would mean that the PCB would be thinking outside the box to protect an asset and that ain't happening.

 

[Fahdi]

Naseem needs to decide if he wants to be a T20 league star or a Test cricketer. Guidance from others is important but he needs to have a clear goal in mind.

Naseem has loads of potential and the best thing about him is that he bowls attacking lines and has the pace and movement to back it up. The most important aspect of his game that he needs to work on is consistency in lines. I would get my hands on tapes of Dale Steyn bowling and have Naseem understand how the great man used to operate. The two are similar in plenty of aspects as they operate at about the same pace, have similar heights and have good natural movement. They also have similar attacking instincts. If I were in the PCB I would arrange some sessions with Dale Steyn during the PSL for Naseem .

 

[muqarrab]

The story so far looks and sounds familiar.

Young and extremely talented fast-bowler - talk of the town/country and a bright future being promised, with the world at his feet.

There will be people around him who will not want the best for him but he is young and impressionable, and from a humble background.

We all saw how the Mohammad Amir story turned out but can Naseem Shah avoid the same trap? Sounds improbable but that's what we thought earlier with Amir.

He needs to be managed better than Amir and Abbas, we should have minders around him. People need to hold Babar Azam as an example to follow, not Amir, Asif, Shoaib.

 

[Forum363]

The story so far looks and sounds familiar.

Young and extremely talented fast-bowler - talk of the town/country and a bright future being promised, with the world at his feet.

There will be people around him who will not want the best for him but he is young and impressionable, and from a humble background.

We all saw how the Mohammad Amir story turned out but can Naseem Shah avoid the same trap? Sounds improbable but that's what we thought earlier with Amir.

Well I’m hoping an advantage he has over Amir is that he has Shaheen. They’re both young teen players on a similar path, albeit Shaheen is maybe 15 months ahead.

I really hope they can motivate each other and keep each other out of trouble. Sometimes one peer who you can truly be honest with is more beneficial than 10 wise/ older mentors.

 

[Hasan123]

He needs to be managed. PCB need to ensure he is looked after on the pitch and not overplayed especially in T20 leagues.

 

[Abdullah]

Allah nazar e bud sai bachai.
Ameen

 

[Sherazkhalid]

Or Hasan Ali route. Even Abbas was hyped a lot when in his first few years. They’ve been many off late. Pakistan has had difficulty managing fast bowling talent.

True test for Naseem would be to get 200+ wickets over a long test career. Even if he averages close to 30 he should be fine.

Only time will tell.

Yep I am more worried about him going Hassan Ali way. The kid height is an issue. Not sure if he is going to gain some height in coming years as he is only 16 still.

 

[Markhor]

I'm concerned that our lack of fast bowling depth will mean Naseem being overplayed and his workload not properly managed.

When Mohammed Irfan and Musa Khan are picked in squads, and Rahat Ali and Bilawal Bhatti are selected for training camps, then Naseen is obviously the option they'll keep relying on.

We need to identify 5-6 quality seamers to rotate from so that Naseem is given a breather from time to time.

 

[ElRaja]

I'm concerned that our lack of fast bowling depth will mean Naseem being overplayed and his workload not properly managed.

When Mohammed Irfan and Musa Khan are picked in squads, and Rahat Ali and Bilawal Bhatti are selected for training camps, then Naseen is obviously the option they'll keep relying on.

We need to identify 5-6 quality seamers to rotate from so that Naseem is given a breather from time to time.

simple answer, dont play him in jamodis. pak barely plays 8 or 9 tests a year, if a quick cant manage that workload (250 odd overs a year) then there is a serious problem.

let him earn money from 2 or 3 leagues, and focus his national duty on tests and tournaments.

 

[The Viper]

I think he needs to be preserved.

I personally would not play him in T20I's.

Naseem is intelligent and learns from his mistakes.

He is humble so most likely won't let fame get to his head.

 

[angrypathan]

simple answer, dont play him in jamodis. pak barely plays 8 or 9 tests a year, if a quick cant manage that workload (250 odd overs a year) then there is a serious problem.

let him earn money from 2 or 3 leagues, and focus his national duty on tests and tournaments.

Pretty much this. Start playing him in ODIs after a couple of years so he's ready for the next World Cup but not now in pointless series.

 

[leatherface58]

Proven to be a low bounce wicket specialist. If the bounce is higher than what you get in the subcontinent and England then he becomes extremely ineffective because he cannot attack the stumps at 128 kph without getting smacked.

Again. He averages 20. He has his limitations but if it was so easy, everyone would be averaging like him. He does well in Subcontinental conditions and England. He is likely to do well in West Indies. That makes it half or more places. With experience, he should come good elsewhere too.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Again. He averages 20. He has his limitations but if it was so easy, everyone would be averaging like him. He does well in Subcontinental conditions and England. He is likely to do well in West Indies. That makes it half or more places. With experience, he should come good elsewhere too.

I wonder how he would do in NZ.

 

[Junaids]

The story so far looks and sounds familiar.

Young and extremely talented fast-bowler - talk of the town/country and a bright future being promised, with the world at his feet.

There will be people around him who will not want the best for him but he is young and impressionable, and from a humble background.

We all saw how the Mohammad Amir story turned out but can Naseem Shah avoid the same trap? Sounds improbable but that's what we thought earlier with Amir.

This is a better question than it at first appears.

The thing is, almost all of Mohammad Amir's outstanding exploits happened in England in swinging conditions.

Moreover, I believe that Amir was wrongly identified as the second coming of Wasim Akram by people who didn't understand that being 5 inches shorter took away a big part of Wasim Akram's menace.

Wasim Akram had similar swing skills and a similar control of line and length. But he was a little bit quicker - only 2-3K generally - and what really made him a handful was the added impact of his height, which meant that batsmen had to decide whether to play forward or back to balls on a good length which could take their heads off.

Naseem Shah's challenge is partially to do with skill and attitude. But he has an absolutely lovely, repeatable action and good pace. His challenge, as with Mohammad Amir, will be what he does to make up for his lack of height.

And having met them both, the bad news is that Naseem Shah is around 3-4 inches shorter even than Mohammad Amir.

That won't matter when the ball is swinging. But it will be a big problem when a Kookaburra ball goes soft.

 

[Xoib]

This is a better question than it at first appears.

The thing is, almost all of Mohammad Amir's outstanding exploits happened in England in swinging conditions.

Moreover, I believe that Amir was wrongly identified as the second coming of Wasim Akram by people who didn't understand that being 5 inches shorter took away a big part of Wasim Akram's menace.

Wasim Akram had similar swing skills and a similar control of line and length. But he was a little bit quicker - only 2-3K generally - and what really made him a handful was the added impact of his height, which meant that batsmen had to decide whether to play forward or back to balls on a good length which could take their heads off.

Naseem Shah's challenge is partially to do with skill and attitude. But he has an absolutely lovely, repeatable action and good pace. His challenge, as with Mohammad Amir, will be what he does to make up for his lack of height.

And having met them both, the bad news is that Naseem Shah is around 3-4 inches shorter even than Mohammad Amir.

That won't matter when the ball is swinging. But it will be a big problem when a Kookaburra ball goes soft.

Wasim is 6 -3 if amir is 5 inches shorter then he is 5-10 and if Naseem is 4 inches shorter then he is 5-6.
Stop this bakwaas Naseem is level height with Abbas if you see them standing together and Abbas does not look short when standing with Amir.

 

[leatherface58]

I wonder how he would do in NZ.

He should do well during the first day when it seams a lot. Will be less effective on the days after that but should still keep it economical.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Let's hope for the best but in the end it is upto the individual himself. No one forced aamir into corruption , he accepted it.

 

[jnaveen1980]

You could change Mohammad Amir into Mohammad Sami picked up 8fer at Auckland on debut and won the man of the match.

 

[Saj]

Another important factor is which players he starts to hang around with and socialise with.

I can think of a few that he should stay well clear of.

 

[Mueez]

Another important factor is which players he starts to hang around with and socialise with.

I can think of a few that he should stay well clear of.

I think his best buddy in the camp is Shaheen.

Shaheen has been guiding him, I guess.

 

[Bewal Express]

I think his best buddy in the camp is Shaheen.

Shaheen has been guiding him, I guess.

Shaheen has improved as a bowler but he ain't the brightest spark either.

 

[silentkiller187]

I keep in touch with Naseem on a regular basis and try to guide him as much as I can. He asks for advice, he asks a lot of questions and he appreciates guidance.

But at the end of the day, it's all about the people who are around him, which senior players are around him and guiding him. It's all about how impressionable he is.

So far, so good.

Keep him away from this forum will be a start, one or two bad performances, the knives will be out.

 

[silentkiller187]

Shaheen has improved as a bowler but he ain't the brightest spark either.

Saw Shaheen in some of the world cup matches in the UK, his body language was interesting to watch as soon as the fans started cheering his name, he puffed his shoulders out and started to really enjoy the adulation, and then made a few simple mistakes in the field after that. Hassan Ali was the same more worried about playing up to the crowd. Our players need to make sure they do not become embroiled in this superstar mentality before they can even walk, i hope naseem puts in the hard work first and i hope shaheen improves himself otherwise they will become another stat.

 

[Bewal Express]

Saw Shaheen in some of the world cup matches in the UK, his body language was interesting to watch as soon as the fans started cheering his name, he puffed his shoulders out and started to really enjoy the adulation, and then made a few simple mistakes in the field after that. Hassan Ali was the same more worried about playing up to the crowd. Our players need to make sure they do not become embroiled in this superstar mentality before they can even walk, i hope naseem puts in the hard work first and i hope shaheen improves himself otherwise they will become another stat.

I have been watching PK since 1982, and bar IK none of the the players have handled the adulation well. People remember the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Aqib and Mushy very fondly but they were to say the least into lots of things including drugs and drink. Shoaib had real problems with alcohol and couldn't accept that he was a public figure. We all know what happened to Amir and Asif.

 

[Forum363]

This is a better question than it at first appears.

The thing is, almost all of Mohammad Amir's outstanding exploits happened in England in swinging conditions.

Moreover, I believe that Amir was wrongly identified as the second coming of Wasim Akram by people who didn't understand that being 5 inches shorter took away a big part of Wasim Akram's menace.

Wasim Akram had similar swing skills and a similar control of line and length. But he was a little bit quicker - only 2-3K generally - and what really made him a handful was the added impact of his height, which meant that batsmen had to decide whether to play forward or back to balls on a good length which could take their heads off.

Naseem Shah's challenge is partially to do with skill and attitude. But he has an absolutely lovely, repeatable action and good pace. His challenge, as with Mohammad Amir, will be what he does to make up for his lack of height.

And having met them both, the bad news is that Naseem Shah is around 3-4 inches shorter even than Mohammad Amir.

That won't matter when the ball is swinging. But it will be a big problem when a Kookaburra ball goes soft.

You make such unfounded random claims and then refuse to respond when someone calls you out on it. Naseem is taller than Azhar Ali. Are you saying Azhar is 5 foot 4 or something?

 

[Titan24]

This is a better question than it at first appears.

The thing is, almost all of Mohammad Amir's outstanding exploits happened in England in swinging conditions.

Moreover, I believe that Amir was wrongly identified as the second coming of Wasim Akram by people who didn't understand that being 5 inches shorter took away a big part of Wasim Akram's menace.

Wasim Akram had similar swing skills and a similar control of line and length. But he was a little bit quicker - only 2-3K generally - and what really made him a handful was the added impact of his height, which meant that batsmen had to decide whether to play forward or back to balls on a good length which could take their heads off.

Naseem Shah's challenge is partially to do with skill and attitude. But he has an absolutely lovely, repeatable action and good pace. His challenge, as with Mohammad Amir, will be what he does to make up for his lack of height.

And having met them both, the bad news is that Naseem Shah is around 3-4 inches shorter even than Mohammad Amir.

That won't matter when the ball is swinging. But it will be a big problem when a Kookaburra ball goes soft.

I guess you are going by info on internet which shows Amir to be 188 cm which is completely wrong. I can post a pic of Amir and Wahab and Amir is an inch or 2 shorter while Wahab is around 6. So Naseem is around same height has Amir. If you have seen Naseem standing with Waqar who is 6 ft he looks maybe an inch shorter than him. So Naseem is around 5 ft 10 or 11, Amir is near somewhere near that as well. It will be more evident when they play alongside in T20s or ODIs.

 

[babajee]

I guess you are going by info on internet which shows Amir to be 188 cm which is completely wrong. I can post a pic of Amir and Wahab and Amir is an inch or 2 shorter while Wahab is around 6. So Naseem is around same height has Amir. If you have seen Naseem standing with Waqar who is 6 ft he looks maybe an inch shorter than him. So Naseem is around 5 ft 10 or 11, Amir is near somewhere near that as well. It will be more evident when they play alongside in T20s or ODIs.

I've seen pictures where Naseem looks taller than Abbas. So he must be around 5"10-5"11 IMO.

 

[Saj]

Plenty of threads where Naseem's height is being discussed - don't bring it into this thread too.

 

[Pete Rose]

Or Hasan Ali route. Even Abbas was hyped a lot when in his first few years. They’ve been many off late. Pakistan has had difficulty managing fast bowling talent.

True test for Naseem would be to get 200+ wickets over a long test career. Even if he averages close to 30 he should be fine.

Only time will tell.

What is the hasan ali route

 

[cricketjoshila]

PCB should tightly control the people Naseem Shah gets involved with. His agents, endorsements, media appearances etc.

Give him the financial security he requires. But protect him.

 

[Saj]

He's a very innocent boy and that scares me.

He needs people wiser and older and more responsible than Shaheen around him.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

He will go down the route of injuries curtailing his career unless PCB decides to revamp their medical department

 

[tyron_woodley]

seriously? so much negativity in this thread. Give the kid a break jeez. He has serious potential. His mom passed away. I am sure he has learnt some valuable lessons from her and that her demise will actually inspire him on the field to perform on a consistent basis. Kid has immense potential. Beautiful action that won't cause too many injuries.

I doubted him at the start but his performance vs Sri Lanka has convinced me that he will be a force to reckon with. Australia and south africa will be a problem for him though as he isn't too much of a hit the deck type bowler. Yes he does deliver a searing bouncer from time to time but he isn't consistent at varying his lengths to be successful in those Australian pitches.

However, he could Improve obviously. If he works on his lengths then there is no reason why he can't be successful down under either. Even waqar struggled there.

Anyway as long as he is performing in subcontinent, England, n.z he is going to be part of a formidable bowling unit for years to come. Good luck naseem.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Asking him not to play in T20's is hypocrisy. He is a fast bowler, he needs to make the most of his first 10 years.

If PCB is not paying much for tests then why should he be preserved for only test + odi while all his other team mates are making millions in T20 leagues.

I feel the more PCB restricts him , there are more chances that he will be lured by few fixers.

 

[angrypathan]

He's a very innocent boy and that scares me.

He needs people wiser and older and more responsible than Shaheen around him.

Abbas and Misbah seem like wise heads, hopefully they have an influence on him

 

[Savak]

Naseem Shah already has a maiden 5 wicket haul in test cricket on a flat subcontinent wicket. Amir needs to wash his feet and shine his shoes

 

[shehz]

This is a better question than it at first appears.

The thing is, almost all of Mohammad Amir's outstanding exploits happened in England in swinging conditions.

Moreover, I believe that Amir was wrongly identified as the second coming of Wasim Akram by people who didn't understand that being 5 inches shorter took away a big part of Wasim Akram's menace.

Wasim Akram had similar swing skills and a similar control of line and length. But he was a little bit quicker - only 2-3K generally - and what really made him a handful was the added impact of his height, which meant that batsmen had to decide whether to play forward or back to balls on a good length which could take their heads off.

Naseem Shah's challenge is partially to do with skill and attitude. But he has an absolutely lovely, repeatable action and good pace. His challenge, as with Mohammad Amir, will be what he does to make up for his lack of height.

And having met them both, the bad news is that Naseem Shah is around 3-4 inches shorter even than Mohammad Amir.

That won't matter when the ball is swinging. But it will be a big problem when a Kookaburra ball goes soft.

Your analysis about Aamir and Wasim is way off. First of all Wasim Akram and Aamir didn't have siimilar swing and control. Wasim Akram was sultan of swing. He had an impeccable control . Later half of his career, it was not his express pace or height but swing and control that troubled batsmen. Never once it came across my mind that he is used his height for added advantage but in fact he mastered his shoulder, wrist and waist movements that allowed him to bowl with beauty and perfection. There is a reason why 95% of the left arm bowlers couldn't achieve the same amount of swing and control despite his pep talks and coaching.

 

[Forum363]

This is a better question than it at first appears.

The thing is, almost all of Mohammad Amir's outstanding exploits happened in England in swinging conditions.

Moreover, I believe that Amir was wrongly identified as the second coming of Wasim Akram by people who didn't understand that being 5 inches shorter took away a big part of Wasim Akram's menace.

Wasim Akram had similar swing skills and a similar control of line and length. But he was a little bit quicker - only 2-3K generally - and what really made him a handful was the added impact of his height, which meant that batsmen had to decide whether to play forward or back to balls on a good length which could take their heads off.

Naseem Shah's challenge is partially to do with skill and attitude. But he has an absolutely lovely, repeatable action and good pace. His challenge, as with Mohammad Amir, will be what he does to make up for his lack of height.

And having met them both, the bad news is that Naseem Shah is around 3-4 inches shorter even than Mohammad Amir.

That won't matter when the ball is swinging. But it will be a big problem when a Kookaburra ball goes soft.

Still waiting for your reply regarding these height claims. Or at least an acceptance that you are saying untrue things.