Will Salman Butt make a comeback at Lord's like Mohammad Amir?

[Leo23]

It will be quite ironic to see both the fixers making their comebacks on the very ground where they disgraced the nation.

Amir made a successful come back at Lord's in 2016 and looks like next year it will be Butt's turn.

He is very likely to be selected for PAK A and it seems like Shan Masood is one bad series away from getting replaced by him.

Considering how poor he was in England last year it is very likely that Butt will be opening for Pakistan at Lord's next summer in the first test

What do you guys think?

 

[babajee]

If this happens then I'm going to start supporting England

 

[Amirforpresident]

That would boil my blood to a point that my head would explode.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If this happens then I'm going to start supporting England

Same.

It wont happen, Butt's international career is over. He's just trying to get back some 'respect'.

 

[moghul]

Have to keep our emotions aside, he has done everything, served his punishment and now deserves to make a comeback on merit. You can;t punish someone twice for the same crime.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Butt averages 24 in test matches in England and he’s about to turn 33 years old in a few weeks. Why bother with him anymore? Surely you would take a punt with a young player over someone like Butt.

 

[maxamax]

Simple. Perform on merit and he's good to have a go.

 

[90MPH]

Not for Tests, def not.

He was never a good Test batsman in the first place.

Decent ODI batsman but his fielding was awful. Don't think he gets in this format either given his age - unless his form is amazing in domestic to warrant such a selection.

 

[Mueez]

I really don't want him on the field! He was the guy who ruined Asif's career who was turning out to be a magician.
And not to forget who wasted Amir's 5 years.

 

[NoBallZombie]

I really don't want him on the field! He was the guy who ruined Asif's career who was turning out to be a magician.
And not to forget who wasted Amir's 5 years.

While i agree I wouldn't want butt anywhere near the team and that Asif was a magician, Asif was a habitual rule-breaker even before this incident. So it wasn't as if Butt would have coaxed asif into wrongdoing.

 

[NoBallZombie]

Have to keep our emotions aside, he has done everything, served his punishment and now deserves to make a comeback on merit. You can;t punish someone twice for the same crime.

He got punished for spot fixing, don't think he got punished for orchestrating the whole thing + involving more of his team mates + being in denial for months after he was found out + blaming 'foreign' elements of working against Pakistan....

 

[CricFan2012]

Dont care about tests, let him do whatever he wants, the formats days are numbered anyways

 

[Mo Dipsy]

It is about how egregious the conduct was, and his reaction to it (kept denying it for so long and taking us fans for fools). He was a central figure in the scandal.

I can't believe he's been selected for Pak A. I feel let down by Inzi and the board.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Didn't Inzi set a rule that Pak A team is only open to players under 30? If not the exact same thing, pretty sure it was something along the same lines.

 

[Abdul]

Hope that Amir's fan girls won't have a problem with Butt making a comeback!

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Butt should never see the light of day in International cricket ~ Should only be allowed to play domestics.

 

[Leo23]

Didn't Inzi set a rule that Pak A team is only open to players under 30? If not the exact same thing, pretty sure it was something along the same lines.

yes. but the rules are clearly being played around with to facilitate butt's return to the team

 

[Leo23]

Butt averages 24 in test matches in England and he’s about to turn 33 years old in a few weeks. Why bother with him anymore? Surely you would take a punt with a young player over someone like Butt.

i am sure no one even remembers what his average is in england

he scoring a truck load of runs in first class cricket and that is all that matters to the selectors. especially when the position of masood is under question.

 

[sam_ahm]

If Misbah can play until 40+, I see no reason why Salman should be discarded on age, especially when Inzi himself says he was 'amazing' with his fitness levels in the high performance training camp. His fitness is better than Misbah's at the same age, so is his present form.

Butt has done all the right things after his ban was lifted. As for the denial.part, look all the three players did whatever they thought was best for them to revive their career, Aamer knew if he admits given his young age, he has a good chance of getting a lesser punishment and making a return in future, Salman on the other hand was older so he exhausted all his options before admitting.

 

[Mueez]

While i agree I wouldn't want butt anywhere near the team and that Asif was a magician, Asif was a habitual rule-breaker even before this incident. So it wasn't as if Butt would have coaxed asif into wrongdoing.

Although keeping that aside, that spot fixing case was kind of cherry on top of all that scandals.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Butt should be the fourth/fifth option as an opener in tests after Azhar,Sami,Shehzad and Imam.

Yes,I would even pick Shehzad over him.

He shouldn’t even be considered for LOI’s.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Question is,do Pakistan need Salman batt anymore??

 

[Leo23]

Question is,do Pakistan need Salman batt anymore??

probably yes when masood is one of your options

 

[Arham_PakFan]

probably yes when masood is one of your options

Masood is selected for reasons other than cricketing ability.

We have Sami,Imam and even Shehzad.All three are young and better options than Butt,who is too old to be considered.

 

[Hasan123]

If Azhar is kept as an opener and Sami scores runs, Butt won't be needed. But if Masood is going to open, unfortunately a Salman Butt return can't be ruled out.

 

[omorst7]

He got punished for spot fixing, don't think he got punished for orchestrating the whole thing + involving more of his team mates + being in denial for months after he was found out + blaming 'foreign' elements of working against Pakistan....

Absolutely spot on!!!

 

[New Yorker]

Have to keep our emotions aside, he has done everything, served his punishment and now deserves to make a comeback on merit. You can;t punish someone twice for the same crime.

No we don't.

He has done everything but express genuine remorse. To hear from Butt he
was a victim of the spot fixing hoax, not its architect.

By every standard he is a most dubious selection ahead of Aslam, even Shezzy. An ageing player with a mediocre career average.

Selection is not a right. If it were Fawad Alam would have 20 Tests under his belt by now.

 

[UN talkz]

Won't get VISA

 

[Leo23]

the hypocrisy of certain ppers has been badly exposed

clearly different rules for different people. the moral of the story is that if you are young and talented you will be pardoned for being a fixer.

this is exactly the attitude which is responsible for the fact that we are not able to eradicate match fixing culture from pakistan cricket

as long as we will hero worship and protect our fixers we will never stop producing them

in an ideal world none of the trio should have played for pakistan again. but if you brought amir back which you shouldn't have,lets not have different set of rules for butt or asif because you want so

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Amir at least admitted his guilt before at his very last option

Butt went through the Courts, went through CAS, came back started talking about conspiracies and then when all that failed he then admitted it.

not to mention a key fact that people alawys forget. It was Salman Butt who first approach Mazher Majeed to help him fix matches, rather than the other way around. Butt has been doing this for a long time. Yes age and seniority does matter. A manager is gonna get more blame and punishment than a crew memeber, similar case here.

he is far far far far far worse.


Butt is only sorry he got caught, he is the Lance Armstrong of cricket.


I forgot the journalist but they summed up the appraoch of the trio really well: Amir was late but remorseful, Asif was indeferrent, Butt was in definal and was defiant.


Not to mention the fact he was a medicore player

 

[superman]

Hate butt for the spot fixing which killed our cricket for years. Hate shan masood which is an example of nepostism which has killed our cricket for years. On ability alone shan should feel honoured to be even compared to imran farhats ability let alone butt who was always decent.

 

[The_Odd_One]

But has scored 3 tests 100s in his entire career of 33 tests, that's one century in every 11 games. Even, Imran Farhat has a better test average than Butt. It does not make any sense to go back to someone who is a convicted fixer, failed test batsman, and 33 years old who was an embarrassingly bad runner and fielder even 7 years ago.

 

[Leo23]

Amir at least admitted his guilt before at his very last option

Butt went through the Courts, went through CAS, came back started talking about conspiracies and then when all that failed he then admitted it.

not to mention a key fact that people alawys forget. It was Salman Butt who first approach Mazher Majeed to help him fix matches, rather than the other way around. Butt has been doing this for a long time. Yes age and seniority does matter. A manager is gonna get more blame and punishment than a crew memeber, similar case here.

he is far far far far far worse.


Butt is only sorry he got caught, he is the Lance Armstrong of cricket.


I forgot the journalist but they summed up the appraoch of the trio really well: Amir was late but remorseful, Asif was indeferrent, Butt was in definal and was defiant.


Not to mention the fact he was a medicore player

amir admitted his guilt because that is what his legal team advised him

they realized that amir will make things worse for himself by not admitting that he is guilty. butt would have done the same if his lawyers would have advised that.

this doesn't say anything about amir's character. he is as much of a corrupt cheat as butt.

the only reason why people have been sympathetic towards amir is because he is a great talent. all of the rest are excuses.

 

[Junaids]

Amir at least admitted his guilt before at his very last option

Butt went through the Courts, went through CAS, came back started talking about conspiracies and then when all that failed he then admitted it.

not to mention a key fact that people alawys forget. It was Salman Butt who first approach Mazher Majeed to help him fix matches, rather than the other way around. Butt has been doing this for a long time. Yes age and seniority does matter. A manager is gonna get more blame and punishment than a crew memeber, similar case here.

he is far far far far far worse.


Butt is only sorry he got caught, he is the Lance Armstrong of cricket.


I forgot the journalist but they summed up the appraoch of the trio really well: Amir was late but remorseful, Asif was indeferrent, Butt was in definal and was defiant.


Not to mention the fact he was a medicore player

This is utterly untrue.’

It is frankly libellous.

The News of the World instigated this, not Salman Butt. They approached Mazhar Majeed, whom they had heard had fixed matches in Australia seven months earlier.

They told Majeed that they wanted the two Pakistan star bowlers (Amir and Asif) and the skipper to bowl no balls and play dot balls for an imaginary Indian bookie.

Because they were the only three players famous enough in England to sell newspapers. This was to sell papers, it was a sting.

Majeed told the NOTW’s Fake Sheikh that none of Amir, Asif and Butt were in his fixing clique. The Fake Sheikh insisted that he recruit those three.

Amir and Butt quickly agreed. Asif refused, and never accepted payment.

There are key questions that you don’t seem to want to address:

1. Who were the players who had fixed for Majeed in the series he confessed to fixing in Australia? He has insisted all along that it wasn’t Amir, Asif or Butt.

2. According to the ICC and criminal prosecution, both Amir and Butt had suspicious SMS and phone traffic in the West Indies three months before the Lords fix, but Majeed insists they weren’t fixing for him. What does this mean?

What Salman Butt did was bad enough. But don’t invent him as the ringleader, because he wasn’t.

 

[Leo23]

This is utterly untrue.’

It is frankly libellous.

The News of the World instigated this, not Salman Butt. They approached Mazhar Majeed, whom they had heard had fixed matches in Australia seven months earlier.

They told Majeed that they wanted the two Pakistan star bowlers (Amir and Asif) and the skipper to bowl no balls and play dot balls for an imaginary Indian bookie.

Because they were the only three players famous enough in England to sell newspapers. This was to sell papers, it was a sting.

Majeed told the NOTW’s Fake Sheikh that none of Amir, Asif and Butt were in his fixing clique. The Fake Sheikh insisted that he recruit those three.

Amir and Butt quickly agreed. Asif refused, and never accepted payment.

There are key questions that you don’t seem to want to address:

1. Who were the players who had fixed for Majeed in the series he confessed to fixing in Australia? He has insisted all along that it wasn’t Amir, Asif or Butt.

2. According to the ICC and criminal prosecution, both Amir and Butt had suspicious SMS and phone traffic in the West Indies three months before the Lords fix, but Majeed insists they weren’t fixing for him. What does this mean?

What Salman Butt did was bad enough. But don’t invent him as the ringleader, because he wasn’t.

i agree with what you said but salman butt as captain had extra responsibility to decline majeed's offer and inform the pcb about him

 

[Junaids]

i agree with what you said but salman butt as captain had extra responsibility to decline majeed's offer and inform the pcb about him

I totally agree, which is why 25 months after his ban ended he isn’t yet back and Shan Masood, who scored 1/4 as many centuries last season is.

Most of us have long since worked out who the fixers were that Mazhar Majeed has confessed to using in Australia. And have long since worked out who threw the two ridiculous Tests in Sri Lanka in 2009.

Those players were never banned. It’s crazy that people seek to re-punish players who have paid their debt to cricket and society, while letting the people who Majeed confessed fixed for real bookies get away with it.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

amir admitted his guilt because that is what his legal team advised him

they realized that amir will make things worse for himself by not admitting that he is guilty. butt would have done the same if his lawyers would have advised that.

this doesn't say anything about amir's character. he is as much of a corrupt cheat as butt.

the only reason why people have been sympathetic towards amir is because he is a great talent. all of the rest are excuses.

He still admitted it

You think the others weren’t privately advised this ?

Talent is hardly a factor

Asif was unique player, arguably my favourite bowler and I never wanted him back given his rap sheet

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

This is utterly untrue.’

It is frankly libellous.

The News of the World instigated this, not Salman Butt. They approached Mazhar Majeed, whom they had heard had fixed matches in Australia seven months earlier.

They told Majeed that they wanted the two Pakistan star bowlers (Amir and Asif) and the skipper to bowl no balls and play dot balls for an imaginary Indian bookie.

Because they were the only three players famous enough in England to sell newspapers. This was to sell papers, it was a sting.

Majeed told the NOTW’s Fake Sheikh that none of Amir, Asif and Butt were in his fixing clique. The Fake Sheikh insisted that he recruit those three.

Amir and Butt quickly agreed. Asif refused, and never accepted payment.

There are key questions that you don’t seem to want to address:

1. Who were the players who had fixed for Majeed in the series he confessed to fixing in Australia? He has insisted all along that it wasn’t Amir, Asif or Butt.

2. According to the ICC and criminal prosecution, both Amir and Butt had suspicious SMS and phone traffic in the West Indies three months before the Lords fix, but Majeed insists they weren’t fixing for him. What does this mean?

What Salman Butt did was bad enough. But don’t invent him as the ringleader, because he wasn’t.

1. In regard to point one I have my suspicions and was lucky enough to spend some time with certain player in 2010, obviously though I can’t say anything here and I understand why people won’t believe , I don’t expect them to when I can’t validate it on the net. I had issues with Salman well before fixing became public

2. Majeed had a legal incentive to deny any long standing relationship it means little on its own

 

[Junaids]

1. In regard to point one I have my suspicions and was lucky enough to spend some time with certain player in 2010, obviously though I can’t say anything here and I understand why people won’t believe , I don’t expect them to when I can’t validate it on the net. I had issues with Salman well before fixing became public

2. Majeed had a legal incentive to deny any long standing relationship it means little on its own

These are very fair points.

I actually don’t want Asif or Butt back, purely because of their ages.

But my basic line of thinking is this:

1. If you accept Mazhar Majeed’s statement when pleading Guilty, he had a longstanding fixing clique in the team, and none of Amir, Asif or Butt were in it.

2. If you accept the lawyer-approved evidence of Ed Hawkins’s book, the Pakistan Innings in the 2011 World Cup semi-Final was fixed by score and fall of wickets in five over bands. Look at the batting line-up.

3. Clearly Amir, Asif and Butt were rightly punished for their roles in what they thought was a fix but was actually a newspaper sting.

4. But many other players have so far gotten away with Majeed’s confessed fixes for bookies in Australia, and probably Sri Lanka.

5. Why re-punish the Guilty from the newspaper sting, while letting Majeed’s fixing players get away with it?

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

5. Why re-punish the Guilty from the newspaper sting, while letting Majeed’s fixing players get away with it?

You make legitimate points, but Butt is no longer in a court of law where we have to weigh things up with the rules of evidence.

My main reason for not wanting him is, 1. - his complete lack of remorse till it was his last available option, 2 - my own suspicions of his past

 

[IndYeah1]

This guy should not be allowed to return to international cricket IMO. And I don't think he will find much sympathy outside of Pakistan.


I think its a seriously bad move by PCB. Are Pakistan's test batting reserves so poor, that they have to resort to this?


Honestly, Shehzad is a tool, and a baselessly arrogant one at that - also a flawed batsman, but he's still decent enough to be given a go in test cricket. Why give this corrupt guy who cost Pakistan so much, and pressured a 17 year old Amir into going along with his criminal acts, another chance?

Those who sell the game, whether that's spot-fixing or entire match-fixing, should be banned for life. I felt as strongly about Amir, but I can at least understand that one - he was so young, and clearly pressured into it by his seniors in the team. But the likes of Asif and Butt should never again be allowed to represent Pakistan. I don't understand why majority of Pakistan fans don't feel the same way.

 

[Khan12]

Should never be allowed back. Imam, Sami, even Shehzad is a better option than him. Butt was a pathetic batsman and a atrocious fielder.

 

[pakistani pride]

Chill guys. He wont make it.

 

[Abdullah719]

You make legitimate points, but Butt is no longer in a court of law where we have to weigh things up with the rules of evidence.

My main reason for not wanting him is, 1. - his complete lack of remorse till it was his last available option, 2 - my own suspicions of his past

3 - He is an average cricketer.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

3 - He is an average cricketer.

worse than average, but for me, performance is irrelevant in comparison to the other point

Butt could actually be Anwar reborn as his supporters think is and I would have the same reaction

 

[Markhor]

This guy should not be allowed to return to international cricket IMO. And I don't think he will find much sympathy outside of Pakistan.


I think its a seriously bad move by PCB. Are Pakistan's test batting reserves so poor, that they have to resort to this?


Honestly, Shehzad is a tool, and a baselessly arrogant one at that - also a flawed batsman, but he's still decent enough to be given a go in test cricket. Why give this corrupt guy who cost Pakistan so much, and pressured a 17 year old Amir into going along with his criminal acts, another chance?

Those who sell the game, whether that's spot-fixing or entire match-fixing, should be banned for life. I felt as strongly about Amir, but I can at least understand that one - he was so young, and clearly pressured into it by his seniors in the team. But the likes of Asif and Butt should never again be allowed to represent Pakistan. I don't understand why majority of Pakistan fans don't feel the same way.

Well said.

I'd love to know how such a mediocre cricketer has survived all these years with a pathetic Test average home and away, and who despite being a ringleader of spot fixing is then GIVEN THE CAPTAINCY AGAIN in domestic cricket AFTER the ban.

Perfect example of class privilege and power of social connections/lobbies in Pakistan cricket.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Well said.

I'd love to know how such a mediocre cricketer has survived all these years with a pathetic Test average home and away, and who despite being a ringleader of spot fixing is then GIVEN THE CAPTAINCY AGAIN in domestic cricket AFTER the ban.

Perfect example of class privilege and power of social connections/lobbies in Pakistan cricket.

Do you remember Afaq Raheem? Used to open the batting and topped the batting charts during 2008/2009 to 2011/12 playing most of his matches in Islamabad and Rawalpindi (grounds famous for favouring bowlers) but never got selected and now he is history while Butt on the other side was made captain
Reason: Afaq was from a small city of Mirpur Azad Kashmir and didn't have links while Butt was from Lahore and chaheeta of few influential people.

 

[Abdullah719]

worse than average, but for me, performance is irrelevant in comparison to the other point

Butt could actually be Anwar reborn as his supporters think is and I would have the same reaction

Fair enough. IMO his mediocrity added on to the other baggage just serves to show how bizarre his possible selection would be.

 

[Buffet]

Well said.

I'd love to know how such a mediocre cricketer has survived all these years with a pathetic Test average home and away, and who despite being a ringleader of spot fixing is then GIVEN THE CAPTAINCY AGAIN in domestic cricket AFTER the ban.

Perfect example of class privilege and power of social connections/lobbies in Pakistan cricket.

He needs to keep practicing for the day when he will captain Pakistani side in international matches.

 

[MMHS]

Butt has served his sentence - it should end there. But, if Ul Haq thinks to bring a 33 years old player, with tailenders like stats (next AUS tour is in 3 years time, when by the other logic he'll be 35+) via A team, it has to be a similar level in the scale of scandal, that initially put Butt in Captaincy & then got him banned.

There are at least 3/4 openers better than this guy now and Inzi is trying to put Azhar at 3 to create a space Even at 38, Taufique Umar is far better choice that this guy, whose career is like Leicester city - those 3 innings against AUS is like 90% of his Test career glory!!!!!!!!

 

[MenInG]

On his way it seems

Pic from PCB of him at toss today at the QEA

 

[waleed88]

On his way it seems

Pic from PCB of him at toss today at the QEA

View attachment 76472

Good to see him back, the team needs some experience. He was Pakistan's best opener since Saeed Anwar before he got banned

 

[Uzi]

Good to see him back, the team needs some experience. He was Pakistan's best opener since Saeed Anwar before he got banned

good one.

A mediocre test batsman at best. He should never be allowed to play for Pakistan again after the spot fixing saga.

 

[waleed88]

good one.

A mediocre test batsman at best. He should never be allowed to play for Pakistan again after the spot fixing saga.

We must remember Inzamam had 3 or 4 openers and he never ended up giving a consistent chance to any opener. So for example in the series after Australia in Australia he is on the bench against the Indian series. Ravi Shastri points it out that why a batsman who scored a century in Australia is doing on the bench in place of Taufeeq Umar and Yasir Hameed/Imran Farhat.

Inzamam rotated alot of his openers which resulted in neither of the any openers settling. Butt scores centuries against in ODIs against India. But for the life of me can't understand his omission from the side in Tests for long periods of time. Inzi rotated openers just on one failure at times.

Alot of ppl said Inzi was insecure of Butt because of his good english and Aitchinsonian background. He was also brought to meet George Bush etc along with Inzamam.

Inzi is partly to blame for the lack of settling of an opening pair for Pakistan as none of Taufeeq Umar, Farhat, Yasir Hameed, Butt had outstanding figures and in the end Butt didn't even make it for the 2007 world cup.

 

[waleed88]

Taufeeq Umar got his run in the side in 2010 till 2012 as Misbah captain. Farhat got his chance as well in South Africa and CT 2013. I think Butt adds useful experience to the side. He has proved his mettle in domestics and deserves a chance back whenever he is called

 

[waleed88]

Butt didn't have outstanding figures

 

[Specialisttailender]

People that want him back have no shame.

 

[hadi123]

People that want him back have no shame.

Why? Do you believe the same thing for Amir then? And don't give me the excuse that "Butt was worse as he was the captain" and similar arguments. These arguments may not be wrong but the reality is that Amir, Butt and Asif all committed spot fixing which is a major crime and they have all served their time for it now.

The fact that Amir was young, dragged into it doesn't mean that he can be allowed a comeback without it being ethically wrong relative to Butt so I don't understand why people have double standards. People who have no ethical problems with Amir back should not have any ethical problems with Butt's return either. Spot fixing is the main crime which they both committed. Yes, Butt played a bigger role but all of these are just minor details making up the major crime which they both did and Butt, I believe got a longer ban and now that is complete.

I had no ethical objections to Amir's return and nor do I for Butt if he does prove himself in domestics as long as they both give 110% every time they put on that Pakistan shirt. And of course, don't even think about fixing again.