Will US-Pakistan relationship change after Imran-Trump meeting?

[MenInG]

Huge opportunity for Imran Khan to make an impression on Trump - in the same way the Korean-US relationship was effected

But will this meeting turn out to be just a photo opportunity or will it result in change between both countries?

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Imran Khan is going to have to come off as aggressive/alpha male type character (which his personality is already) to really get along with Trump. Let's see how the meet up goes. 2 big personalities.

PM Khan is a smart man, he has very good intuition, fully confident that he will rope Trump in and have him singing to his tunes/praises of Pakistan.

 

[DeadBall]

If all goes to plan, we can end global war, hunger etc in one go.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Nothing will happen.

 

[moghul]

Result of the meeting cannot be the worse than a puppet reading from a purchi when last time Pakistani PM met US president.

 

[AdamM97]

Result of the meeting cannot be the worse than a puppet reading from a purchi when last time Pakistani PM met US president.

When is he not reading from a ******?

 

[PetroDollars]

hopefully this time its different to previous leaders going to us, can IK have a relationship with trump like Mush had with bush, i belive its very much needed with a warmongering gov. in india hell bent on war, iran moving to india as with afgan and China sitting on the fence a powerful friend maybe needed.

 

[MenInG]

Donald Trump has this habit of changing views once he meets people - IK should try and impress him during this meeting "say the right things"

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

These things are above the pay-grades of both Imran and Trump. At the end of the day, it will be intelligentsia and establishments of both countries that will forge the outcome, good or bad.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

These things are above the pay-grades of both Imran and Trump. At the end of the day, it will be intelligentsia and establishments of both countries that will forge the outcome, good or bad.

It will be all about helping the US with getting out of Afghanistan peacefully. If Pak (Bajwa) agree to that then all will be well. You'll hear things like Pakistani are great people.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

It will be all about helping the US with getting out of Afghanistan peacefully. If Pak (Bajwa) agree to that then all will be well. You'll hear things like Pakistani are great people.

Don't think the US establishment desire an exit from Afghanistan, peaceful or otherwise. Sure an exit will be popular back home but for the military industrial complex, an exit will be a disaster. And they usually get what they desire from any US president at any time.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Don't think the US establishment desire an exit from Afghanistan, peaceful or otherwise. Sure an exit will be popular back home but for the military industrial complex, an exit will be a disaster. And they usually get what they desire from any US president at any time.

From what I have understood Trump needs that to get re-elected next year.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Imran Khan is going to have to come off as aggressive/alpha male type character (which his personality is already) to really get along with Trump. Let's see how the meet up goes. 2 big personalities.

PM Khan is a smart man, he has very good intuition, fully confident that he will rope Trump in and have him singing to his tunes/praises of Pakistan.

Heard Pakistan had to ask MBS to intervene and get Kushner involved so that this meeting could be arranged.

In such a desperate situation, how can IK come off as a aggressive character?

 

[AdamM97]

Heard Pakistan had to ask MBS to intervene and get Kushner involved so that this meeting could be arranged.

In such a desperate situation, how can IK come off as a aggressive character?

Source?

 

[AdamM97]

Heard Pakistan had to ask MBS to intervene and get Kushner involved so that this meeting could be arranged.

In such a desperate situation, how can IK come off as a aggressive character?

From what i’ve read, there’s more to the story than what you just claimed.

Trump did write a letter to Imran Khan back in 2018 and Lindsay Graham, an American senator who asked Trump to invite Imran Khan to the US.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Source?

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2017343/1-pm-saudi-crown-prince-thank-us-visit/?amp=1

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

From what I have understood Trump needs that to get re-elected next year.

Didn't stop Obama to get re-elected despite making similar promise to his voters.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Heard Pakistan had to ask MBS to intervene and get Kushner involved so that this meeting could be arranged.

In such a desperate situation, how can IK come off as a aggressive character?

Talk about taking something out of context.

Desperate? Where did you get that notion from?

If anything, this visit is really hurting India.

https://www.firstpost.com/india/us-...-point-to-keep-ties-on-even-keel-6975821.html

https://theprint.in/opinion/global-...on-to-feel-like-it-needs-a-new-friend/263731/

 

[Pakpak]

Talk about taking something out of context.

Desperate? Where did you get that notion from?

If anything, this visit is really hurting India.

https://www.firstpost.com/india/us-...-point-to-keep-ties-on-even-keel-6975821.html

https://theprint.in/opinion/global-...on-to-feel-like-it-needs-a-new-friend/263731/

This is the only way Indians will make themselves look better. It was Trump who sent the letter.

 

[msaaim89]

Is there a chance the US might ask for stationing of troops/equipment for Iran invasion? Or a supply line?

If so, I hope it's a resounding no from IK.

 

[Pakpak]

Is there a chance the US might ask for stationing of troops/equipment for Iran invasion? Or a supply line?

If so, I hope it's a resounding no from IK.

Absolutely zero chance of that ever happening from our side.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Talk about taking something out of context.

Desperate? Where did you get that notion from?

If anything, this visit is really hurting India.

https://www.firstpost.com/india/us-...-point-to-keep-ties-on-even-keel-6975821.html

https://theprint.in/opinion/global-...on-to-feel-like-it-needs-a-new-friend/263731/

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2017343/1-pm-saudi-crown-prince-thank-us-visit/?amp=1


Read this. MBS had to ask Kushner to get Trump to meet IK. When you have to ask the Prince of another country to intervene to just set up a meeting for your PM, thats desperate.

This is pakistani media. Not Indian media.

 

[Napa]

Pakistan and US desires are:

1) Pakistan wants Taliban in power in Kabul
2) US wants the existing form of government, a government decided by elections. Otherwise it will appear the US has lost the war.

It is not impossible for the US to accept losing a war, they lost Vietnam and did just fine. But it is better for the Afghan people they have a government chosen by the people rather than the Taliban which will take the country back to medieval times, and also fight a civil war against the northern Afghanis. The Taliban couldn't win the war against the northern Afghanis led by Massoud, and they won't win this time either as the US is sure to supply the northerners with weapons.

What bargaining chips do Pakistan and the US have?

1) Pakistan: Trump wants an end to the war. Pakistan has influence over the Taliban.

2) US: FATF; possible resumption of military aid; loans through IMF, WB etc.

In the longer term, the Pakistan has done a lot of damage to its relationship with the US by supplying arms to the Haqqanis and the Taliban who kill US soldiers. Another feckless President down the road may ignore this, but Trump will not forgive or forget.

Pakistan has also done a lot of damage in the West to its reputation as a tourist and investment destination. Even after the end of the Afghan War the jihadists will still be there. They will still keep dragging Pakistan down. As Clinton famously said "you can't nurture snakes in your backyard and expect them never to bite you".

 

[AdamM97]

Absolutely zero chance of that ever happening from our side.

Trump and his neocon friends will try to persuade Pak to help the US against Iran. Let’s hope Pakistan does the right thing!

 

[Napa]

Trump and his neocon friends will try to persuade Pak to help the US against Iran. Let’s hope Pakistan does the right thing!

Trump is not known for having neocon friends, who largely tried to get Hillary elected. The most prominent neocons like Kristol, Kagan, Boot, Frum etc. are never-Trumpers.

 

[slipcatch]

LOL at Indian tunnel analysis while ignoring the global picture.

It is like watching cheap low rated watching bollywood movie.

 

[WebGuru]

Zalmay Khalilzad (Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation) thanked Pakistan like a dozen times through interviews, press release and tweets in last few months for the efforts in Afghan peace process which clearly shows what exactly Trump want from Pak is to give US a face saving exit from Afghanistan by making sure Taliban sit on a table and take a deal to make it look like a US victory and Trump can talk about it in the next elections.

 

[AdamM97]

Trump is not known for having neocon friends, who largely tried to get Hillary elected. The most prominent neocons like Kristol, Kagan, Boot, Frum etc. are never-Trumpers.

Trump doesn’t have neocon friend? John Bolton and Mike Pompeo says hi

 

[PetroDollars]

Pakistan and US desires are:

1) Pakistan wants Taliban in power in Kabul
2) US wants the existing form of government, a government decided by elections. Otherwise it will appear the US has lost the war.

It is not impossible for the US to accept losing a war, they lost Vietnam and did just fine. But it is better for the Afghan people they have a government chosen by the people rather than the Taliban which will take the country back to medieval times, and also fight a civil war against the northern Afghanis. The Taliban couldn't win the war against the northern Afghanis led by Massoud, and they won't win this time either as the US is sure to supply the northerners with weapons.

What bargaining chips do Pakistan and the US have?

1) Pakistan: Trump wants an end to the war. Pakistan has influence over the Taliban.

2) US: FATF; possible resumption of military aid; loans through IMF, WB etc.

In the longer term, the Pakistan has done a lot of damage to its relationship with the US by supplying arms to the Haqqanis and the Taliban who kill US soldiers. Another feckless President down the road may ignore this, but Trump will not forgive or forget.

Pakistan has also done a lot of damage in the West to its reputation as a tourist and investment destination. Even after the end of the Afghan War the jihadists will still be there. They will still keep dragging Pakistan down. As Clinton famously said "you can't nurture snakes in your backyard and expect them never to bite you".

you watch too many bollywood movies mate.

 

[Napa]

Trump doesn’t have neocon friend? John Bolton and Mike Pompeo says hi ��

The subtlety of the English language makes it difficult for you to follow. I chose my words carefully, I did not say "Trump doesn’t have neocon friends", I said "Trump is not known for having neocon friends" which allows for a few neocons in his Administration.

The intellectual leaders of the neocons are Bill Kristol and Robert Kagan, both vehement anti-Trumpers. The strongest presence for the neocons in the government was Victoria Nuland (wife of Kagan), the architect of the Ukraine War. She was immediately fired by Trump on his assuming office.

The most important neocon publication was the Weekly Standard, which was so rabidly anti-Trump that is lost its conservative readership and had to shut down.

 

[Napa]

you watch too many bollywood movies mate.

Your response tells me that you have been spending too much time in front of the tube watching "Baby Sharky Doo Doo" and "Sponge Bob Square Pants"

 

[AdamM97]

The subtlety of the English language makes it difficult for you to follow. I chose my words carefully, I did not say "Trump doesn’t have neocon friends", I said "Trump is not known for having neocon friends" which allows for a few neocons in his Administration.

The intellectual leaders of the neocons are Bill Kristol and Robert Kagan, both vehement anti-Trumpers. The strongest presence for the neocons in the government was Victoria Nuland (wife of Kagan), the architect of the Ukraine War. She was immediately fired by Trump on his assuming office.

The most important neocon publication was the Weekly Standard, which was so rabidly anti-Trump that is lost its conservative readership and had to shut down.

I know what you meant. What i meant was: Trump IS KNOWN FOR HAVING NEOCON FRIENDS.

A lot of people actually believe in myths such as: "Trump is a paleo conservative who hates wars" and "he's is anti-establishment and a right wing populist".

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1IUYbeXojQ

Trump is the biggest gift to the neocons and the American establishment, believe it or not.

 

[slipcatch]

I know what you meant. What i meant was: Trump IS KNOWN FOR HAVING NEOCON FRIENDS.

A lot of people actually believe in myths such as: "Trump is a paleo conservative who hates wars" and "he's is anti-establishment and a right wing populist".

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1IUYbeXojQ

Trump is the biggest gift to the neocons and the American establishment, believe it or not.

Fallacy that usually spread, on this forum by Indians, and those who are ignorant on this topic.

USA inability to successfully attack Iran while containing it within Iran at this juncture or finish the job in Syria does not mean Trump is anti-war or does not support neocons.

 

[Napa]

I know what you meant. What i meant was: Trump IS KNOWN FOR HAVING NEOCON FRIENDS.

A lot of people actually believe in myths such as: "Trump is a paleo conservative who hates wars" and "he's is anti-establishment and a right wing populist".

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1IUYbeXojQ

Trump is the biggest gift to the neocons and the American establishment, <b>believe it or not.</b>

Okay, I believe it not.

Seriously, you have little knowledge about US politics if you believe "Trump is the biggest gift to the neocons". You think linking to a youtube video by some Kyle Kulinski (never heard of him before today) proves something!

Read about the most powerful neocons I mentioned in my earlier post, Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, Victoria Nuland, Max Boot, David Frum, Erickson etc. and see where they stand wrt Trump.

Read how the Weekly Standard, described as a "redoubt of neoconservatism" and as "the neo-con bible" went so crazy with its hate for Trump that it lost its readership and had to shut down.

Really, you seem so ignorant about the current state of US politics, that it is a waste of time for me to engage with you anymore till you have read up more and post something not based on what you have seen in a youtube video by Kulinski or whoever. So no more replies from me.

 

[AdamM97]

Okay, I believe it not.

Seriously, you have little knowledge about US politics if you believe "Trump is the biggest gift to the neocons". You think linking to a youtube video by some Kyle Kulinski (never heard of him before today) proves something!

Read about the most powerful neocons I mentioned in my earlier post, Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, Victoria Nuland, Max Boot, David Frum, Erickson etc. and see where they stand wrt Trump.

Read how the Weekly Standard, described as a "redoubt of neoconservatism" and as "the neo-con bible" went so crazy with its hate for Trump that it lost its readership and had to shut down.

Really, you seem so ignorant about the current state of US politics, that it is a waste of time for me to engage with you anymore till you have read up more and post something not based on what you have seen in a youtube video by Kulinski or whoever. So no more replies from me.

Kyle Kulinski is actually a very famous commentator from the US, i'm surprised that you haven't heard of him considering that you claim to know a lot about US politics. Nonetheless, i admit i should've made my own points instead of linking a video.

Telling someone they have little knowledge on something is a good excuse to run away from discussions online. Keep it up!

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Okay, I believe it not.

Seriously, you have little knowledge about US politics if you believe "Trump is the biggest gift to the neocons". You think linking to a youtube video by some Kyle Kulinski (never heard of him before today) proves something!

Read about the most powerful neocons I mentioned in my earlier post, Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, Victoria Nuland, Max Boot, David Frum, Erickson etc. and see where they stand wrt Trump.

Read how the Weekly Standard, described as a "redoubt of neoconservatism" and as "the neo-con bible" went so crazy with its hate for Trump that it lost its readership and had to shut down.

Really, you seem so ignorant about the current state of US politics, that it is a waste of time for me to engage with you anymore till you have read up more and post something not based on what you have seen in a youtube video by Kulinski or whoever. So no more replies from me.

All these names don’t have any issues with Trump’s policies. They just don’t like his style. Trump exposes the facade of GOP and that’s what pisses them of. They hate him because he says the quite parts loud. Rest assure they don’t actually have any problem with bombing brown ppl ore caging brown children or any other fascistic policies.

 

[Napa]

All these names don’t have any issues with Trump’s policies.

The Democrats had made the Neocons really happy, with Obama Admin's Nuland starting the Ukraine War and Hillary following up by bombing Gaddafi. Obama read and liked Fred Kagan's essay "Not Fade Away: The Myth of American Decline".

The Neocon war-producing machinery was in full swing during the Obama Admin, and they expected their influence would continue in a Hillary Admin. Trump was an interruption, someone who actually cared about American kids from Midwest sent to die fighting wars in the Mideast.

They just don’t like his style.

I will say that Trump's style is different from the Neocons' style. Both are hostile to Iran, but Trump wants to use economic means whereas Neocons' dream is an all out war.

Trump is a businessman. In business you defeat an opponent by using economic means. Trump is trying to defeat Iran by economic means.

For at least 15 years now, the Neocons have been trying to get the US to launch a full fledged ground invasion of Iran. But Trump is not going to do it.

As for Russia, which is the Neocon's second biggest target after Iran, Trump actually considers Putin an ally, though he may not be able to say so openly due to political considerations.

Trump exposes the facade of GOP and that’s what pisses them of. They hate him because he says the quite parts loud.

Agreed.

Rest assure they don’t actually have any problem with bombing brown ppl ore caging brown children or any other fascistic policies.

Trump has till now shown an aversion to bombing and killing civilians, but may be pushed into a war in the future.

I am not sure why imprisoning foreigners who break the law and enter the country illegally is "fascistic". The Fascists were aggressors. Enforcing the laws of a nation by detaining illegal immigrants is not aggression. Also, when US citizens go to prison they are separated from their children, which is also the case for illegal immigrants.

 

[Napa]

Kyle Kulinski is actually a very famous commentator from the US, i'm surprised that you haven't heard of him considering that you claim to know a lot about US politics. Nonetheless, i admit i should've made my own points instead of linking a video.

Telling someone they have little knowledge on something is a good excuse to run away from discussions online. Keep it up!

As of March 2019, Kyle Kulinski was the 19,343rd most-subscribed YouTube channel. I looked him up, he seems like a partisan Democrat, not someone I would look to for an unbiased assessment of Trump.

Anyway, if you have good arguments I will try to respond. If I don't, it is quite likely that I have been deluged with work from real life.

 

[PakLFC]

Yes. IK will make it clear to Trumpy that we don't want there money. Leave Afghanistan or continue to be killed by the Taliban. We are not gonna kill the Taliban who have never harmed Pakistan. Pak are the ones who have to live next to Afghanistan, we can't make enemies of them. Like it or not we are the main players in Afghanistan.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

The Democrats had made the Neocons really happy, with Obama Admin's Nuland starting the Ukraine War and Hillary following up by bombing Gaddafi. Obama read and liked Fred Kagan's essay "Not Fade Away: The Myth of American Decline".

The Neocon war-producing machinery was in full swing during the Obama Admin, and they expected their influence would continue in a Hillary Admin. Trump was an interruption, someone who actually cared about American kids from Midwest sent to die fighting wars in the Mideast.



I will say that Trump's style is different from the Neocons' style. Both are hostile to Iran, but Trump wants to use economic means whereas Neocons' dream is an all out war.

Trump is a businessman. In business you defeat an opponent by using economic means. Trump is trying to defeat Iran by economic means.

For at least 15 years now, the Neocons have been trying to get the US to launch a full fledged ground invasion of Iran. But Trump is not going to do it.

As for Russia, which is the Neocon's second biggest target after Iran, Trump actually considers Putin an ally, though he may not be able to say so openly due to political considerations.



Agreed.



Trump has till now shown an aversion to bombing and killing civilians, but may be pushed into a war in the future.

I am not sure why imprisoning foreigners who break the law and enter the country illegally is "fascistic". The Fascists were aggressors. Enforcing the laws of a nation by detaining illegal immigrants is not aggression. Also, when US citizens go to prison they are separated from their children, which is also the case for illegal immigrants.

There is so much B.S. to unpack here but why bother?

 

[Mamoon]

It is not a meeting between Trump and Imran, it is a meeting between Trump and Gen. Bajwa.

An excellent article by Ayesha Siddiqa:

Imran Khan’s US visit is for home audience. Bajwa’s Army will do the real talking

In his three-day visit beginning 21 July, Imran Khan will be accompanied by foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, trade and investment adviser Razzak Dawood, finance adviser Hafeez Pasha and a few others from his government.

However, the most important members of the entourage will be Pakistan Army Chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa and the two men close to him – the ISI Chief, Lt. General Faiz Hameed, and the head of the ISPR, Major General Asif Ghafoor, say sources.

In his address to the diaspora on the first day of his visit, Imran Khan will repeat his promise to end corruption in Pakistan and hope to engage the affluent diaspora by projecting a new Pakistan that is in line with the military’s imagination.

Khan has already started his political gimmickry by suggesting that he would stay at an inexpensive hotel paid for by his government or at the ambassador’s residence.

Notwithstanding the fact that his stay would be paid for by the host state – the US – and so Khan needn’t bother with the expenses, such positions would naturally please his constituency at home or the diaspora.

There is nothing noticeable in Imran Khan’s programme, except his meeting with the US President. Given how both Trump and Khan have similar egos and their brains work the same way, one expects the meeting to be uneventful.

Sources suggest that the military contingent and a couple of ministers will stay behind for more conversations.

https://theprint.in/opinion/imran-k...-bajwas-army-will-do-the-real-talking/263450/

 

[Slog]

It is not a meeting between Trump and Imran, it is a meeting between Trump and Gen. Bajwa.

An excellent article by Ayesha Siddiqa:


https://theprint.in/opinion/imran-k...-bajwas-army-will-do-the-real-talking/263450/

I don’t think Bajwa will be meeting either Trump so that’s a moot point. In any case with foreign leaders IK has been leading the relationships (though obviously it’s probably military’s line).

The article by Ayesha Siddiqui is hardly excellent and reads like the writing of a 10th grader. Also she has literally not said anything which has not been said before. Like there is zero new information or political insight added. It baffles me you call it excellent. To top it off it’s in an online Indian magazine which has negligible global audience and even in India is not considered a great source.

 

[WebGuru]

Ayesha Siddiqa, Hussain Haqqani and co can cry as much as they want we know their pain and i am loving it...

 

[WebGuru]

It is not a meeting between Trump and Imran, it is a meeting between Trump and Gen. Bajwa.

An excellent article by Ayesha Siddiqa:


https://theprint.in/opinion/imran-k...-bajwas-army-will-do-the-real-talking/263450/

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Civil & military leadership on the same page,on the same plane&on the same wavelength Taking Pak ahead. Well done! <a href="http://t.co/Z0LWHPbIK6">pic.twitter.com/Z0LWHPbIK6</a></p>— Maryam Nawaz Sharif (@MaryamNSharif) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaryamNSharif/status/591343045024608257?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 23, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[warcry]

Bajwa is there to meet his counterpart at the Pentagon to discuss military affairs.
people like to make mountains out of molehills to sell stories.

 

[Mueez]

It is not a meeting between Trump and Imran, it is a meeting between Trump and Gen. Bajwa.

An excellent article by Ayesha Siddiqa:


https://theprint.in/opinion/imran-k...-bajwas-army-will-do-the-real-talking/263450/

Trump ain’t meeting Gen. Bajwa.

Gen. Bajwa is there to meet Gen. Milley.

Imran will do the talking with Trump.

 

[Waseem]

We are friends for benefits so no change in relationship in long term.

I hope we make enough gains without sacrificing much, you never know what to expect from Trump so it would be interesting when both get together.

 

[MenInG]

Next few days could well define our future relationship

 

[Mamoon]

Trump ain’t meeting Gen. Bajwa.

Gen. Bajwa is there to meet Gen. Milley.

Imran will do the talking with Trump.

He will do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa. In short, the military are supervising his meeting with Trump, but he has nothing to do with Bajwa's visit to the Pentagon later. He will be reduced to meeting a few Pakistani delegations. When it comes to strategic decisions and serious matters, Imran Khan has no say.

 

[King-Misbah]

He will do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa. In short, the military are supervising his meeting with Trump, but he has nothing to do with Bajwa's visit to the Pentagon later. He will be reduced to meeting a few Pakistani delegations. When it comes to strategic decisions and serious matters, Imran Khan has no say.

You know because your Imran Khan or General Bajwa?

 

[AdamM97]

He will do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa. In short, the military are supervising his meeting with Trump, but he has nothing to do with Bajwa's visit to the Pentagon later. He will be reduced to meeting a few Pakistani delegations. When it comes to strategic decisions and serious matters, Imran Khan has no say.

First you claimed that Bajwa will meet Trump and when that claim was refuted, you start claiming that IK will ”do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa”. Matlab kuch bhi? Hadd hoti hai Mamoon saab.

 

[slipcatch]

He will do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa. In short, the military are supervising his meeting with Trump, but he has nothing to do with Bajwa's visit to the Pentagon later. He will be reduced to meeting a few Pakistani delegations. When it comes to strategic decisions and serious matters, Imran Khan has no say.

LOL

It don’t matter to majority of Pakistani.

Your desperate attempt to show the obvious that Pak military is involved in major decisions and the government of Pakistan support the military.

Absolutely nothing wrong with it, rather most of us are happy that both the civilian and the military organization working towards to make Pakistan a better nation.

But carry on, it is cute and show your, I’d say desperation, but lately you’ve been acting like third class Bollywood actor trying your best to act in trolling.

 

[slipcatch]

First you claimed that Bajwa will meet Trump and when that claim was refuted, you start claiming that IK will ”do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa”. Matlab kuch bhi? Hadd hoti hai Mamoon saab.

Nothing wrong in Bajwa having meeting with Trump.

IK getting all the support from some of the most influential Pakistani isn’t a sign of weakness unless you’re rented liberal to protect your self interest or you’re doing “ Abu aur Paisa bachao politics”

 

[WebGuru]

What happened to Rumi
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just read many cynical comments about <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PMIKVistingUS?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PMIKVistingUS</a>-Unwarranted criticism.<br>1)It is a working not a state visit.<br>2) it is significant turn in Pak-US relations.<br>3)Economy needs bailout.<br>4)The Army is a critical player in Afghan peace process &being with PM makes sense.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PMIKInUSA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PMIKInUSA</a></p>— Raza Ahmad Rumi (@Razarumi) <a href="https://twitter.com/Razarumi/status/1152943317891637249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 21, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

LOL

It don’t matter to majority of Pakistani.

Your desperate attempt to show the obvious that Pak military is involved in major decisions and the government of Pakistan support the military.

Absolutely nothing wrong with it, rather most of us are happy that both the civilian and the military organization working towards to make Pakistan a better nation.

But carry on, it is cute and show your, I’d say desperation, but lately you’ve been acting like third class Bollywood actor trying your best to act in trolling.

I have to disagree with you, there is everything wrong with the military being involved in major decisions. That isn't their job and they are to be subservient to the ruling goverment as per our constitiution. You don't hire a guard for the job of CEO for a company.

I hope Imran is able to strenghten the civilian instituitons to the point we're no longer under the thumb of generals. It's gotten us nowhere these past 70 years.

 

[AdamM97]

I have to disagree with you, there is everything wrong with the military being involved in major decisions. That isn't their job and they are to be subservient to the ruling goverment as per our constitiution. You don't hire a guard for the job of CEO for a company.

I hope Imran is able to strenghten the civilian instituitons to the point we're no longer under the thumb of generals. It's gotten us nowhere these past 70 years.

Why shouldn’t the military participate in any major decisions regarding geopolitics(especially regarding the US exit from Afg which will have huge implications for Pak)? Every country consults their militaries before taking any decision on foreign policy.

 

[slipcatch]

I have to disagree with you, there is everything wrong with the military being involved in major decisions. That isn't their job and they are to be subservient to the ruling goverment as per our constitiution. You don't hire a guard for the job of CEO for a company.

I hope Imran is able to strenghten the civilian instituitons to the point we're no longer under the thumb of generals. It's gotten us nowhere these past 70 years.

You can disagree but please do it with substance while not ignoring facts, understanding of the geopolitics and region, and current and future situation.

If you are going to repeat "talking points and ignorant points" then you aren't disagreeing much.

Lets not equate a company with a country or a guard with Army.

Pakistan's civilian institutions are already being strengthened as it evident in media, family dynastic politician crying every day and resorted to politics of "Abu aur Paisa bachao"

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

Why shouldn’t the military participate in any major decisions regarding geopolitics(especially regarding the US exit from Afg which will have huge implications for Pak)? Every country consults their militaries before taking any decision on foreign policy.

Sure, they can consult all they want and give their opinions on matters regarding national security only. However that should be their extent, the decision should be made by the PM and needs to be respected and upheld by the military.

Enough of the "military and govt are on the same page", as per our constitution the military should be on the same page regardless of what decision is made because they come under the said government.

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

You can disagree but please do it with substance while not ignoring facts, understanding of the geopolitics and region, and current and future situation.

If you are going to repeat "talking points and ignorant points" then you aren't disagreeing much.

Lets not equate a company with a country or a guard with Army.

Pakistan's civilian institutions are already being strengthened as it evident in media, family dynastic politician crying every day and resorted to politics of "Abu aur Paisa bachao"

I'd count our constitution as substance, wouldn't you? Fact is that we've been ruled by the army for the past 70 years and that has gotten us nowhere, neither will it get us anywhere. There is no justifiable scenario where the military should supersede the civilian government.

I think I used a good example to highlight my point, what's the need of Bajwa to head economic committees? That isn't his job.

I'm glad the dynastic practices of Pakistani politics is being addressed. I'd like the same criticism and accountability on the army too.

I disagree with the notion of the military and government being on the same page as a good thing. It's not up to the army to decide that. What would you do if tomorrow they decide Imran is of no use and needs to deposed of his position?

Or we can just get done with it, amend the constitution and officially declare ourselves a military dictatorship and not continue this game of musical chairs.

 

[slipcatch]

I'd count our constitution as substance, wouldn't you? Fact is that we've been ruled by the army for the past 70 years and that has gotten us nowhere, neither will it get us anywhere. There is no justifiable scenario where the military should supersede the civilian government.

last 10 years were not military ruled. If a sitting PM orders a Pakistani plane full with people on low gas to be flown out of Pakistan then that do become a reason for him to be removed, may not be justifiable but as you grow older you'll learn many things that happen in life do not feel justifiable at times.

I think I used a good example to highlight my point, what's the need of Bajwa to head economic committees? That isn't his job.

Again, you are showing your ignorance by repeating talking points. Pakistan's economy has become a matter of national security. If you do not understand that concept then I suggest you to read up on it.

I'm glad the dynastic practices of Pakistani politics is being addressed. I'd like the same criticism and accountability on the army too.

Army is criticized daily on every forum and social media for their short coming and faults. But, people fail to give solution to Pakistan within the parameter of reality of Pakistan and come up with tunnel analysis to further their agenda.

I disagree with the notion of the military and government being on the same page as a good thing. It's not up to the army to decide that. What would you do if tomorrow they decide Imran is of no use and needs to deposed of his position?
Then you can criticize Army, until then you are ignoring the reality and current situation and playing the hypothetical card.

Or we can just get done with it, amend the constitution and officially declare ourselves a military dictatorship and not continue this game of musical chairs.

To me it is just a label and nothing more, if you wish to do that then you can file a petition.

Regards.

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

Regards.

I never disputed that, but point to me a successful country where a general is talking about the "fiscal mismanagements" for the country's problems. I'm a PTI voter, and a proud one and I voted for them, not the military.

Of Course, it would be justifiable to remove that PM. What wouldn't be justifiable is a military General then taking the reign and ruling the country for a good 7 years. No matter what, decisions should be made according to rules of Pakistan, our democracy isn't a switch to be turned on and off on the mood of the COAS.

And the Army hasn't had a hand in the situation our economy is in? Meddling in Afghanistan? being a wardog for the US? Proxy wars with India?

Parameters of reality? You're telling me the military in Pakistan can only function if it supersedes the government? How about you explain how things cannot be run the way they are while respecting the constitution at the same time? There are no agendas here. We're all Pakistanis and we all want the best for our country.

Unfortunately, our history would point to the contrary.

Labels aren't made without reason.

 

[Mueez]

He will do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa. In short, the military are supervising his meeting with Trump, but he has nothing to do with Bajwa's visit to the Pentagon later. He will be reduced to meeting a few Pakistani delegations. When it comes to strategic decisions and serious matters, Imran Khan has no say.

The military has always been supervising the meetings between Pakistani Prime Ministers and World leaders.

It is no lie to say Pakistan is in the hands of Army.

But it is what it is.

I can’t change it and neither can you.

 

[WebGuru]

The beginning is not that bad...

 

[Pakistanian]

Nobody knows cause trump is kinda mental and he may make change his mind.

 

[Napa]

He will do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa. In short, the military are supervising his meeting with Trump, but he has nothing to do with Bajwa's visit to the Pentagon later. He will be reduced to meeting a few Pakistani delegations. When it comes to strategic decisions and serious matters, Imran Khan has no say.

You know because your Imran Khan or General Bajwa?

He knows because he reads news, can assess what he reads means, and is not delusional.

 

[cric_man]

Donald Trump has this habit of changing views once he meets people - IK should try and impress him during this meeting "say the right things"

Imran read your comment!!!! Played up Donald's ego

 

[WebGuru]

Senator Graham (Chair of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary) is proving to be a good friend of Pakistan played a key role.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Peace with honor and dignity in Afghanistan is only possible with the complete buy in of Pakistan. <br><br>It is now time for the United States to have a strategic relationship with Pakistan, which is best achieved by a free trade agreement tied to security performance.</p>— Lindsey Graham (@LindseyGrahamSC) <a href="https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1153375033525514240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Heisenberg111]

I can see the relationship improving, but only if Trump wins the 2nd term next year.

 

[Mueez]

To be honest I find Trump less “harmful” than Obama or Bush jr.

Trump is straightforward he talks what he thinks.

While the latter ones talked sweet but stabbed Pakistan or other countries in the back...

 

[slipcatch]

I can see the relationship improving, but only if Trump wins the 2nd term next year.

Withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan has nothing to do with who is in the office.

It was an eventual step that had to be take by any president of US.

 

[slipcatch]

You know because your Imran Khan or General Bajwa?

He will do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa. In short, the military are supervising his meeting with Trump, but he has nothing to do with Bajwa's visit to the Pentagon later. He will be reduced to meeting a few Pakistani delegations. When it comes to strategic decisions and serious matters, Imran Khan has no say.

He knows because he reads news, can assess what he reads means, and is not delusional.

Every country leader follow the pre-selected script.

The nature of this meeting was Afghanistan.

Do not let pessimist who blame his luck that he was born in Pakistan and excel sheet NRI to turn this into something that isn’t.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan has nothing to do with who is in the office.

It was an eventual step that had to be take by any president of US.

CIA and Pentagon don't like Trump's decision of pulling out of Afghanistan quickly. I would much rather have Trump who likes Imran Khan, then some new democrat president in 2020. If anything democrats have more hawkish views on Pakistan. Pakistanis have long perceived Republican politicians and administrations to favor Pakistan relative to the Democrats.

 

[WebGuru]

Pakistanis have long perceived Republican politicians and administrations to favor Pakistan relative to the Democrats.

Democrats in White House are always more trouble for Pakistan

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

CIA and Pentagon don't like Trump's decision of pulling out of Afghanistan quickly. I would much rather have Trump who likes Imran Khan, then some new democrat president in 2020. If anything democrats have more hawkish views on Pakistan. Pakistanis have long perceived Republican politicians and administrations to favor Pakistan relative to the Democrats.

You expect Zardari or Nawaz Sharif to win over Obama? In politics, its the timing that matters. During Obama's tenure, India had Dr Manmohan Singh, a well educated person, as its PM. We had the likes of Yusuf Raza Gilani, Zardari, and Nawaz Sharif as our leaders. No wonder a Democrat US President sided with India in foreign policy issues.

 

[slipcatch]

CIA and Pentagon don't like Trump's decision of pulling out of Afghanistan quickly. I would much rather have Trump who likes Imran Khan, then some new democrat president in 2020. If anything democrats have more hawkish views on Pakistan. Pakistanis have long perceived Republican politicians and administrations to favor Pakistan relative to the Democrats.

Sure, Republican generally favor Pakistan but, I’m talking about US troops withdrawal, although it’ll never be complete withdrawal, has nothing to do with republicans or Democrats, whoever to win last election and before next election had to make that move to withdrawal troops from Afghanistan.

 

[Napa]

There is a lot of nonsense being said that the Democrats were hard on Pakistan and the Republicans are not. It is not so much a Democrat or Republican thing, but rather the specific personality.

Nixon/Kissinger almost came to blows with India, threatening it by sending the 6th Fleet.

Reagan/Bush needed Pakistan for fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, so they pandered.

Clinton mostly ignored Pakistan, with the end of the Soviet Union the attention had shifted elsewhere.

Bush was quite friendly with Pakistan as he needed them for his wars.

Obama was reasonably friendly, he made noises about terrorism but the most significant help he gave was sending more F-16s (which Kerry said was needed to maintain "balance").

Trump has a short fuse for tolerating nonsense, as is expected from a successful businessman. He thought the best way to celebrate a New Year was to tweet about Pakistani "lies and deceit". He is currently making friendly noises because he wants a good deal in Afghanistan, but it would seem very hard to reach any kind of long-term deal. Likely result is that Trump won't get the non-Taliban govt he wants in Afg, and Pakistan won't get a resumption of investments, economic aid and military aid.

 

[Mamoon]

You know because your Imran Khan or General Bajwa?

First you claimed that Bajwa will meet Trump and when that claim was refuted, you start claiming that IK will ”do the talking from the script provided by Bajwa”. Matlab kuch bhi? Hadd hoti hai Mamoon saab.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">DG ISPR said Chief of Army Staff General Qamar Javed Bajwa will be part of Prime Minister Imran Khan's delegation during a meeting with US President Donald Trump at the White House.He will also visit Pentagon to interact with Acting Secretary Defense and others <a href="https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@OfficialDGISPR</a> <a href="https://t.co/IW5WUqcxJK">pic.twitter.com/IW5WUqcxJK</a></p>— Information Ministry (@MoIB_Official) <a href="https://twitter.com/MoIB_Official/status/1153391625839812608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">US President Donald Trump meets COAS General Qamar Bajwa in Washington on Monday. <a href="https://t.co/Ip76lCNzf8">pic.twitter.com/Ip76lCNzf8</a></p>— The Express Tribune (@etribune) <a href="https://twitter.com/etribune/status/1153375624116998145?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

There was no possibility of Bajwa not meeting Trump and not overseeing his meeting with Imran. His conversation with Trump as well as his meeting in Pentagon are the only talks that matters. Imran's meeting with Trump was only for the cameras.

The U.S. knows where the real power lies. While Bajwa was overseeing the meeting between Imran and Trump, Imran was not allowed to attend the Pentagon meeting and I am certain Bajwa will not brief him either.

 

[IMMY69]

There is a lot of nonsense being said that the Democrats were hard on Pakistan and the Republicans are not. It is not so much a Democrat or Republican thing, but rather the specific personality.

Nixon/Kissinger almost came to blows with India, threatening it by sending the 6th Fleet.

Reagan/Bush needed Pakistan for fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, so they pandered.

Clinton mostly ignored Pakistan, with the end of the Soviet Union the attention had shifted elsewhere.

Bush was quite friendly with Pakistan as he needed them for his wars.

Obama was reasonably friendly, he made noises about terrorism but the most significant help he gave was sending more F-16s (which Kerry said was needed to maintain "balance").

Trump has a short fuse for tolerating nonsense, as is expected from a successful businessman. He thought the best way to celebrate a New Year was to tweet about Pakistani "lies and deceit". He is currently making friendly noises because he wants a good deal in Afghanistan, but it would seem very hard to reach any kind of long-term deal. Likely result is that Trump won't get the non-Taliban govt he wants in Afg, and Pakistan won't get a resumption of investments, economic aid and military aid.

Obama had the wrong advisors on Pakistan.
That I know for a fact.

 

[ahmedzee]

Republicans usually have good relationship with Pakistan. This is no different.
Obama's advisors were absolute garbage on their policy with Pakistan.

 

[WebGuru]

Republicans usually have good relationship with Pakistan. This is no different.
Obama's advisors were absolute garbage on their policy with Pakistan.

Hillary was so confused on one side she was defending Pak and bashing US policy makers for not doing enough for Pak after Cold War was over and the next year she was asking Pak to do more for US