Will we see Babar Azam as a Test captain again?

[emranabbas]

Now that it's evident from Zaka Ashraf's statements that Babar wasn't dismissed from the Test captaincy but rather stepped down after being excluded from the white-ball captaincy due to poor performances in tournaments. With only the white-ball captaincy and no red-ball captaincy, do you think Babar will express his dissatisfaction again? Would he potentially step down from the white-ball captaincy if he isn't granted the red-ball captaincy? Or is he not in a position to do so and likely to allow things to remain as they are?

 

[Rana]

Of course we will.

It’s only a matter of time. This whole charade was done so Babar can escape the two tough series against Australia and New Zealand away.

Now he will get some easy series in T20 and Test to regain some confidence. Before the tough stuff returns and we will be back to square 1 with this fraud

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar will get all format captaincy soon enough.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I really hope not. Shan is 100 times the captain Babar ever was and 10000 the captain Babar will ever be.

 

[mominsaigol]

I really hope not. Shan is 100 times the captain Babar ever was and 10000 the captain Babar will ever be.

Bro I'd rather have babar then shan .

We don't need either of these 2.

But tbf the problem is idrk who else to pick. Rizwan will just be a copy of babar, but tbf to rizzu, he'll be more calm in the field and isn't gonna shout like a maniac. But otherwise his decisions, I checked them in psl they were awful lol.

Shadab is a brilliant captain but his own form doesn't merit being in the team that's the issue.

Imad would be good too but he's not interested, pretry sure after this tournament he's gone from Pakistan also at best imad would be a white ball captain, he'd run away from red ball captaincy.

Ironically this is haphazard but I wouldn't mind saud being test captain. If theirs any youngster who needs the push it's saud shakeel.

Imo Saud as test captain, and Imad as odi and t20 captain would be the best scenario.

But it won't happen lol.

 

[emranabbas]

I really hope not. Shan is 100 times the captain Babar ever was and 10000 the captain Babar will ever be.

In Pakistani cricket, success often seems to hinge more on star power than results. Even if Babar underperforms, his star status often overshadows his shortcomings

 

[Varun]

Anything is possible in Pakistan cricket.

 

[Markhor]

Bro I'd rather have babar then shan .

We don't need either of these 2.

But tbf the problem is idrk who else to pick. Rizwan will just be a copy of babar, but tbf to rizzu, he'll be more calm in the field and isn't gonna shout like a maniac. But otherwise his decisions, I checked them in psl they were awful lol.

Shadab is a brilliant captain but his own form doesn't merit being in the team that's the issue.

Imad would be good too but he's not interested, pretry sure after this tournament he's gone from Pakistan also at best imad would be a white ball captain, he'd run away from red ball captaincy.

Ironically this is haphazard but I wouldn't mind saud being test captain. If theirs any youngster who needs the push it's saud shakeel.

Imo Saud as test captain, and Imad as odi and t20 captain would be the best scenario.

But it won't happen lol.

Saud needs to firstly sort his game out outside Asia.

He was pathetic for Yorkshire in the County Championship last year and pathetic in Australia.

 

[TeymurBlake]

He probably will unless Pakistan fail to pick up wins in forthcoming T20 series (which could happen) & T20WC (which is likely)

However he shouldn't be named captain. He's had enough time to show what he's capable of as a captain.

 

[mominsaigol]

He probably will unless Pakistan fail to pick up wins in forthcoming T20 series (which could happen) & T20WC (which is likely)

However he shouldn't be named captain. He's had enough time to show what he's capable of as a captain.

Bro, ik this is off topic

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Shan will be under pressure now. He really needs to bat well in the next few series

 

[mominsaigol]

Saud needs to firstly sort his game out outside Asia.

He was pathetic for Yorkshire in the County Championship last year and pathetic in Australia.

Everyone of our batsmen have been pathetic in Australia, we lost 3-0 in an embrassing fashion

 

[TeymurBlake]

Bro, ik this is off topic

Lol. I find it hilarious.

 

[TeymurBlake]

I'll keep it.

 

[Markhor]

Everyone of our batsmen have been pathetic in Australia, we lost 3-0 in an embrassing fashion

Debutant Aamer Jamal outscored Saud in Australia. Yet Saud's meant to be one of our premier domestic batsmen.

Pakistani fans seem to conflate looking aesthetically pleasing at the crease with good technique.

The biggest reason why we lost 3-0 in Australia is because our middle order, namely Babar and Saud, totally flopped, and thus spurned the biggest chance we've ever had to beat Australia since 1995.

We tour South Africa later this year and Saud may well find himself out of the team unless he improves against bounce.

There's absolutely no basis for him to be appointed captain.

 

[mominsaigol]

Debutant Aamer Jamal outscored Saud in Australia. Yet Saud's meant to be one of our premier domestic batsmen.

Pakistani fans seem to conflate looking aesthetically pleasing at the crease with good technique.

The biggest reason why we lost 3-0 in Australia is because our middle order, namely Babar and Saud, totally flopped, and thus spurned the biggest chance we've ever had to beat Australia since 1995.

We tour South Africa later this year and Saud may well find himself out of the team unless he improves against bounce.

There's absolutely no basis for him to be appointed captain.

Bro, a player outperforming someone in one series doesn't mean their better. Lol

 

[Markhor]

Bro, a player outperforming someone in one series doesn't mean their better. Lol

Don't misinterpret things. My point is simple.

An average of 15 and getting outscored by a tailender on debut is alarming for someone meant to be a key batsman. That was Saud's first test outside Asia and he flopped.

Therefore I'm asking what's the justification for making Saud captain ?

Why should Saud jump the captaincy queue ahead of say Mohammad Rizwan, who despite his selfish and limited LOI batting and ridiculous on-field antics, averaged nearly 50 on that same tour, has a body of work as captain, and served as deputy for the last few years ? Or Shaheen who was already LOI captain and an established Test player ?

Also how can Imad be appointed LOI captain at 35 years old with a screwed up knee ?

Look you're perfectly entitled to your opinions but there should be some logic behind it. We cannot be throwing the captaincy armband around based on personal likes and dislikes.

 

[PakEngFan]

Don't misinterpret things. My point is simple.

An average of 15 and getting outscored by a tailender on debut is alarming for someone meant to be a key batsman. That was Saud's first test outside Asia and he flopped.

Therefore I'm asking what's the justification for making Saud captain ?

Why should Saud jump the captaincy queue ahead of say Mohammad Rizwan, who despite his selfish and limited LOI batting and ridiculous on-field antics, averaged nearly 50 on that same tour, has a body of work as captain, and served as deputy for the last few years ? Or Shaheen who was already LOI captain and an established Test player ?

Also how can Imad be appointed LOI captain at 35 years old with a screwed up knee ?

Look you're perfectly entitled to your opinions but there should be some logic behind it. We cannot be throwing the captaincy armband around based on personal likes and dislikes.

Logic and Imad fans don't go hand in hand. Rizwan should be replaced with Usman Khan for the SA series. Usman Khan performed in PSL so he deserves to replace Mohammed rizwan.

 

[mominsaigol]

Don't misinterpret things. My point is simple.

An average of 15 and getting outscored by a tailender on debut is alarming for someone meant to be a key batsman. That was Saud's first test outside Asia and he flopped.

Therefore I'm asking what's the justification for making Saud captain ?

Why should Saud jump the captaincy queue ahead of say Mohammad Rizwan, who despite his selfish and limited LOI batting and ridiculous on-field antics, averaged nearly 50 on that same tour, has a body of work as captain, and served as deputy for the last few years ? Or Shaheen who was already LOI captain and an established Test player ?

Also how can Imad be appointed LOI captain at 35 years old with a screwed up knee ?

Look you're perfectly entitled to your opinions but there should be some logic behind it. We cannot be throwing the captaincy armband around based on personal likes and dislikes.

I already gave my justification,

Shan masood outperformed babar and rizwan throughout an ENTIRE t20 world cup in 2022, so by this logic isnt it alarming that shan who has been statically the worst opener for Pakistan this past decade outperformed our star batsmen

And you're forgetting the series the game in which jamal scored, he outperformed babar as well, so should we get rid of Bobby? Why is babar front line as captain?

You're logic instantly falls flat when you bring up these biased perspectives.

It's a not simple case of A> B > C as you're making it out to be.

Imad who you claim has a screwed up knee seemed just fine when he won 3 psl games in a row and seemed to have no issue. You have azam Khan in your camp, don't bring in this loony toon fitness logic with me.

And don't get emotional, relax.

This has nothing to do with personal likes and dislikes, you're just getting triggered over a comment I made lol.

Shaheen as odi captain means early career death for him, since he's injury prone and can't play every game, rizwan has declining form, his recent t20 series + his decreasing sr + his record of chocking during crunch stages doesn't make him any better then Bobby as a candidate.

It seems to me the one who's going by likes and dislikes is you lol.

Kindly take your logic and fix it please. Some screws are loose.

 

[mominsaigol]

Logic and Imad fans don't go hand in hand. Rizwan should be replaced with Usman Khan for the SA series. Usman Khan performed in PSL so he deserves to replace Mohammed rizwan.

You're happy with a t20 opener who's sr is 122 and is currently dropping with his sr in psl and recent times being 110?

You realise 50 of 40 consistently which is something rizwan does will be match losing?

It's a t20, not an odi, if batsmen are averaging even 25-30 but are striking at 150+, its more then enough to get to a respectable total.

We don't need someone who consistently scores 40 ball 50's in t20, especially now that we have 2 jokers doing the same.

Babar lost us the 2021 semi final, alongside hafeez, Rauf and hasan Ali having an economy of over 10. And babars sr barely being over 100 with him wasting 6 overs.

Rizwan lost us asia cup 2022, after 11 extras before the first ball was even bowled reducing the target to 157, Rizwan's 49 ball 55 and chacha who people praise as an amazing hitter, his 32 ball 32 didn't help the cause. I saw the pitch, it wasn't a hard pitch to bat, Sri lanka had no issue scoring 170, they even have us over 20 extras in that game smh.

Don't know why people are comfortable with having these 2 as our openers. Unless it's c string, where they can score 49 ball 100's, their not doing any of that in the cup against top quality sides.

Them performing is ironically the issue, not them failing.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

If i have to choose one between Shan and Babar for Test captaicy so i will definitely go for Babar Azam.

 

[Markhor]

I already gave my justification,

Shan masood outperformed babar and rizwan throughout an ENTIRE t20 world cup in 2022, so by this logic isnt it alarming that shan who has been statically the worst opener for Pakistan this past decade outperformed our star batsmen

And you're forgetting the series the game in which jamal scored, he outperformed babar as well, so should we get rid of Bobby? Why is babar front line as captain?

You're logic instantly falls flat when you bring up these biased perspectives.

It's a not simple case of A> B > C as you're making it out to be.

Imad who you claim has a screwed up knee seemed just fine when he won 3 psl games in a row and seemed to have no issue. You have azam Khan in your camp, don't bring in this loony toon fitness logic with me.

And don't get emotional, relax.

This has nothing to do with personal likes and dislikes, you're just getting triggered over a comment I made lol.

Shaheen as odi captain means early career death for him, since he's injury prone and can't play every game, rizwan has declining form, his recent t20 series + his decreasing sr + his record of chocking during crunch stages doesn't make him any better then Bobby as a candidate.

It seems to me the one who's going by likes and dislikes is you lol.

Kindly take your logic and fix it please. Some screws are loose.

Firstly please avoid this tendency to take even gentle questioning of your views as some kind of personal attack. If you believe everyone should respond to you saying "Yes sir, I agree you're the best" then this isn't the right place for you. The abuse between posters here during the last month, even during Ramadan, has been appalling.

Secondly, do not think I'm here to defend Babar Azam. I've relentlessly criticised his batting, captaincy and even human shortcomings. FWIW Babar's form at those events you mentioned was shocking and had he played for a top side he would've been axed by now. Nor do I want Babar to captain even an exhibition match for us after his last tenure.

Thirdly, you've concluded Imad's fitness is durable for not only T20 captaincy but ODI captaincy on basis of 3 PSL matches. Imad hasn't played ODI cricket for 3.5 years or a domestic List A match since March 2022, but we're to award him the captaincy ? That too at the age of 35, and after announcing his international retirement which has been temporarily rescinded ? And you suggest I have screws loose ?

Fourthly, Azam Khan is a national disgrace and I don't wish to see him become the team's Disc Jockey let alone in a training camp.

Fifthly, let's address this injury prone thing about Shaheen. Before his injury, Shaheen was in the world's top 10 bowlers for overs bowled. He bowled more overs in 2 Tests in Australia than anybody on either side except Nathan Lyon. An injury prone player cannot do that. He was injured in 2022 and the PCB's doctors, who've made negligence an artform, misdiagnosed him and botched his recovery. Making matters worse, he was rushed back into action at the T20 World Cup inevitably reinjuring him. That's PCB's ineptitude not injury proneness.

Sixthly, you keep bringing T20 into a thread about the Test captaincy. What declining form has Rizwan shown ? He topped our averages in Australia !

Finally, I asked a simple question exploring your reasoning to disrupt the line of succession and make Saud Shakeel the Test captain. Shall we try again and this time without the vitriol ?

 

[160KPH]

Rizwan should clearly be our Test captain. He’s not just a good wicket keeper batsmen, in overseas conditions, he’s basically our best batsmen in SENA. His spot is guaranteed. He has captaincy experience and has had a lot of success in leagues commanding pretty average bowling attacks. And he’s spent a lot of time as a VC in international cricket as well.

 

[mominsaigol]

Firstly please avoid this tendency to take even gentle questioning of your views as some kind of personal attack. If you believe everyone should respond to you saying "Yes sir, I agree you're the best" then this isn't the right place for you. The abuse between posters here during the last month, even during Ramadan, has been appalling.

Secondly, do not think I'm here to defend Babar Azam. I've relentlessly criticised his batting, captaincy and even human shortcomings. FWIW Babar's form at those events you mentioned was shocking and had he played for a top side he would've been axed by now. Nor do I want Babar to captain even an exhibition match for us after his last tenure.

Thirdly, you've concluded Imad's fitness is durable for not only T20 captaincy but ODI captaincy on basis of 3 PSL matches. Imad hasn't played ODI cricket for 3.5 years or a domestic List A match since March 2022, but we're to award him the captaincy ? That too at the age of 35, and after announcing his international retirement which has been temporarily rescinded ? And you suggest I have screws loose ?

Fourthly, Azam Khan is a national disgrace and I don't wish to see him become the team's Disc Jockey let alone in a training camp.

Fifthly, let's address this injury prone thing about Shaheen. Before his injury, Shaheen was in the world's top 10 bowlers for overs bowled. He bowled more overs in 2 Tests in Australia than anybody on either side except Nathan Lyon. An injury prone player cannot do that. He was injured in 2022 and the PCB's doctors, who've made negligence an artform, misdiagnosed him and botched his recovery. Making matters worse, he was rushed back into action at the T20 World Cup inevitably reinjuring him. That's PCB's ineptitude not injury proneness.

Sixthly, you keep bringing T20 into a thread about the Test captaincy. What declining form has Rizwan shown ? He topped our averages in Australia !

Finally, I asked a simple question exploring your reasoning to disrupt the line of succession and make Saud Shakeel the Test captain. Shall we try again and this time without the vitriol ?

Saud is a young lad and has captained in domestic, he needs to be given the go ahead period.

Rizwan's test performance was so bad he got dropped for sarfi, he recently had a resurgence. Theirs no telling if he'll keep this form up when he's only played 2 tests in losing causes, it's too early to judge.

Saud in asia has been good, in the same series where rizwan was poor and got dropped from the squad.

As I said it's not A > B > C, Rizzu got dropped in the series where saud was star scoring. But in Australia saud failed, so did everyone to the point that jamal was the 2nd best batsmen after rizwan lol.

You're acting as if Rizwan has a 50 Avg in test consistently. Saud had a 90+ avg in asia.

As I said it's not A > B > C. Rizwan succeeding in one format for one series is fundamentally the same as saud being good in 2 series in Asia.

I saw rizzu captain in the PSL, yeah no thanks, would rather watch paint dry, he's off the same mould as babar as a captain, he's superior to babar in that he doesn't panic or scold the team, so the team isn't likely to mess up with catches and the team genuinely has a good relaxed vibe unlike babar.

But in terms of decisions even shan was superior. Rizzu and Babar aren't the brightest in terms of captaincy.

 

[muqarrab]

Now that it's evident from Zaka Ashraf's statements that Babar wasn't dismissed from the Test captaincy but rather stepped down after being excluded from the white-ball captaincy due to poor performances in tournaments. With only the white-ball captaincy and no red-ball captaincy, do you think Babar will express his dissatisfaction again? Would he potentially step down from the white-ball captaincy if he isn't granted the red-ball captaincy? Or is he not in a position to do so and likely to allow things to remain as they are?

Babar has a few years to catch up to Shan when it comes to captaincy, but sadly so are the ways of Pakistan cricket that Babar clueless azam would be leading the test side soon and we will lose from ENG at home.

 

[PakEngFan]

You're happy with a t20 opener who's sr is 122 and is currently dropping with his sr in psl and recent times being 110?

You realise 50 of 40 consistently which is something rizwan does will be match losing?

It's a t20, not an odi, if batsmen are averaging even 25-30 but are striking at 150+, its more then enough to get to a respectable total.

We don't need someone who consistently scores 40 ball 50's in t20, especially now that we have 2 jokers doing the same.

Babar lost us the 2021 semi final, alongside hafeez, Rauf and hasan Ali having an economy of over 10. And babars sr barely being over 100 with him wasting 6 overs.

Rizwan lost us asia cup 2022, after 11 extras before the first ball was even bowled reducing the target to 157, Rizwan's 49 ball 55 and chacha who people praise as an amazing hitter, his 32 ball 32 didn't help the cause. I saw the pitch, it wasn't a hard pitch to bat, Sri lanka had no issue scoring 170, they even have us over 20 extras in that game smh.

Don't know why people are comfortable with having these 2 as our openers. Unless it's c string, where they can score 49 ball 100's, their not doing any of that in the cup against top quality sides.

Them performing is ironically the issue, not them failing.

I am talking about tests instead of writing a useless essay maybe you should pay attention to the post. Read between the lines as you call it.

 

[mominsaigol]

I am talking about tests instead of writing a useless essay maybe you should pay attention to the post. Read between the lines as you call it.

I'm asking you your opinion on t20, happy to tak this to another thread though

 

[Markhor]

Saud is a young lad and has captained in domestic, he needs to be given the go ahead period.

Rizwan's test performance was so bad he got dropped for sarfi, he recently had a resurgence. Theirs no telling if he'll keep this form up when he's only played 2 tests in losing causes, it's too early to judge.

Saud in asia has been good, in the same series where rizwan was poor and got dropped from the squad.

As I said it's not A > B > C, Rizzu got dropped in the series where saud was star scoring. But in Australia saud failed, so did everyone to the point that jamal was the 2nd best batsmen after rizwan lol.

You're acting as if Rizwan has a 50 Avg in test consistently. Saud had a 90+ avg in asia.

As I said it's not A > B > C. Rizwan succeeding in one format for one series is fundamentally the same as saud being good in 2 series in Asia.

I saw rizzu captain in the PSL, yeah no thanks, would rather watch paint dry, he's off the same mould as babar as a captain, he's superior to babar in that he doesn't panic or scold the team, so the team isn't likely to mess up with catches and the team genuinely has a good relaxed vibe unlike babar.

But in terms of decisions even shan was superior. Rizzu and Babar aren't the brightest in terms of captaincy.

Thank you, a substantive non-combative answer is what I asked for. This doesn't have to be Mortal Kombat my friend. Addressing your points:

1) IMO there's two non-negotiables when appointing captains. A) A body of work at junior and domestic level and B) being a guaranteed starter. Babar fails the first requirement. His record as U19, domestic and PSL captain was mediocre and it translated into internationals. Shan has a good captaincy record but doesn't merit a place in the Test XI.

Now the issue with Saud is he's another bad series away from a drop. We tour South Africa later this year and their pacers will pepper Saud with chin music seeing his struggles in Australia. If he fails, do we change captains again ? Do we keep Saud as captain only in Asia where he scores runs and have another skipper for non-Asian Tests ?

Saud indeed has some domestic captaincy experience, but I disagree its comparable to Rizwan's, Shaheen's or even Shadab's. I closely watched the 2019-22 era QEA Trophy (not the PDM-imposed garbage this season) and I don't recall Saud captaining Sindh with distinction or any silverware he led them to.

2) Appointing a captain after only 10 Test caps is incredibly risky. You're gambling that Saud, who debuted only 16 months ago, will maintain his spot for the next several years when he's not guaranteed to last 2024. Secondly, appointing Saud would create even more dressing room toxicity than now.

I'm old enough to remember Shoaib Malik appointed as Test captain in 2007. He didn't merit a place in Tests, and caused resentment amongst seniors like Mohammad Yousuf who spent the next 3 years beefing with him since he felt he was the natural successor to Inzamam. Saud's a better batsman than Malik but that episode emphasised the danger of sidelining established players and shortcircuiting the line of succession to Pakistan's captaincy.

You're acting as if Rizwan has a 50 Avg in test consistently. Saud had a 90+ avg in asia.

As I said it's not A > B > C. Rizwan succeeding in one format for one series is fundamentally the same as saud being good in 2 series in Asia.

3) Rizwan's Test career didn't start last year. He's played 30 Tests over 7.5 years and averages 40 which for a PAK keeper batsman is solid. And that's coming from someone who's no fan of his T20 batting, preaching, or onfield theatrics. Every batsman in Test history bar Bradman has peaks and troughs and not unique to Rizwan whose position in the Test side even after his dropping is still less precarious than Saud's as he's the #1 wicketkeeper. I know Saud averages 60 but that's on a small sample which'll correct itself with more non-Asian Test cricket, unless he makes technical adjustments in the off-season.

But okay, if not Rizwan there's Shaheen whom even a declined version of remains one of the premier pacers in the country.

My point is simple. Pakistan cricket decisions must stop being based on boardroom gupshup between uncles or online fan fantasies and based on detailed logic, data/analytics, and realism. In other words not what Mohsin Naqvi did last week, or with respect what you're suggesting.

 

[kingusama92]

Why aim so low?

He will be chairman next month.

 

[PakEngFan]

I'm asking you your opinion on t20, happy to tak this to another thread though

You already said Usman Khan should replace rizwan in all formats.

 

[Asad T]

If Babar has a decent T20 WC, he will be appointed as Test captain again.

 

[Rana]

You already said Usman Khan should replace rizwan in all formats.

What’s wrong in saying that? Usman is a better T20 player for sure. He’s probably a better ODI player as well.

 

[shaz619]

When Babar returns at Test Kuptaan they need to do a mini Qurbani and also make sure Babar alone gets to eat the fresh Gosht, that’s what saviour deserves, a fresh Gosht Biryani

 

[PakEngFan]

What’s wrong in saying that? Usman is a better T20 player for sure. He’s probably a better ODI player as well.

Lol. He hasn't even played an international match yet and he's already better. Take your hate glasses of for a sec. You should have said he better at test too while not even playing proper fc.

 

[Rana]

Lol. He hasn't even played an international match yet and he's already better. Take your hate glasses of for a sec. You should have said he better at test too while not even playing proper fc.

Jake Fraser McGurk has played a few T20is


HE IS BETTER THAN RIZWAN TOO

 

[Rana]

@PakEngFan

Who’s a better T20 opener, Rizwan or Finn Allen?

Allen has an average of 25 in T20i and Rizwan has an average of 49. Nearly double. Who’s better in your honest opinion?

 

[160KPH]

@PakEngFan

Who’s a better T20 opener, Rizwan or Finn Allen?

Allen has an average of 25 in T20i and Rizwan has an average of 49. Nearly double. Who’s better in your honest opinion?

Your reply kind of proves @PakEngFan point though.

Finn Allen is a stunning T20 opener who is as destructive as anybody but pretty poor in ODI and bad in FC. T20 performances don’t necessarily mean good ODI performances and DEFINITELY do not mean good Test performances.

 

[PakEngFan]

Jake Fraser McGurk has played a few T20is


HE IS BETTER THAN RIZWAN TOO

Yes and Usman hasn't played a game yet thanks for proving my point.

 

[PakEngFan]

@PakEngFan

Who’s a better T20 opener, Rizwan or Finn Allen?

Allen has an average of 25 in T20i and Rizwan has an average of 49. Nearly double. Who’s better in your honest opinion?

Off course Finn Allen. Who a better player overall it's not even a question. Tag me when Finn Allen plays a test match. In case you wasn't aware I am talking about overall player not a t20 player. The poster said Usman Khan should replace rizwan in all formats not t20.

 

[PakEngFan]

Your reply kind of proves @PakEngFan point though.

Finn Allen is a stunning T20 opener who is as destructive as anybody but pretty poor in ODI and bad in FC. T20 performances don’t necessarily mean good ODI performances and DEFINITELY do not mean good Test performances.

Finn has only performed in t20s hence will remain a t20 hack unless he's does something in proper formats similar to surya Kumar yadav who is also a t20 hack. They are far better t20 players then rizwan that doesn't mean they are better players than rizwan in general.

 

[Rana]

Your reply kind of proves @PakEngFan point though.

Finn Allen is a stunning T20 opener who is as destructive as anybody but pretty poor in ODI and bad in FC. T20 performances don’t necessarily mean good ODI performances and DEFINITELY do not mean good Test performances.

Don’t put words in his mouth.

Let him answer the question. It’s not a really difficult one. Who is a better T20 opener, Rizwan or Fin Allen?

 

[Rana]

Your reply kind of proves @PakEngFan point though.

Finn Allen is a stunning T20 opener who is as destructive as anybody but pretty poor in ODI and bad in FC. T20 performances don’t necessarily mean good ODI performances and DEFINITELY do not mean good Test performances.

@mominsaigol

These are the kind of posts/posters who I was dealing with in 2020/21 trying to reason with everyone here that the path taken by Pakistan cricket is the wrong path. This is what I meant about people making extreme excuses to make that 1 player look good

 

[Rana]

Off course Finn Allen

Really brave of you to say this. Well done for saying the truth.

Yes we can talk hypotheticals now. Finn probably isn’t a Test match opener, unless NZ want to head that way. I personally recon he can become a Chris Gayle type Test opener too. But that’s something from 2 decades ago, when there wasn’t as much franchise cricket and even then players like Gayle had a lot of hunger and desire for Test cricket. He was a brilliant Test cricketer.

In ODI’s, it’s only a matter of time when he will explode in this format. If he plays in SA 2027, he will blast some teams right from the start on those tracks.

 

[Rana]

Yes and Usman hasn't played a game yet thanks for proving my point.

Again you are falling for literals.

Everyone can and should be able to see that Usman is a better player than Rizwan. If you can’t, I’m sorry I cannot really make you see it.

 

[160KPH]

@mominsaigol

These are the kind of posts/posters who I was dealing with in 2020/21 trying to reason with everyone here that the path taken by Pakistan cricket is the wrong path. This is what I meant about people making extreme excuses to make that 1 player look good

Why are you so dramatic? And why do you start tagging other people for help in a cricket discussion? It’s not that serious.

 

[160KPH]

Finn has only performed in t20s hence will remain a t20 hack unless he's does something in proper formats similar to surya Kumar yadav who is also a t20 hack. They are far better t20 players then rizwan that doesn't mean they are better players than rizwan in general.

Exactly. Test performances are worth 100x anything someone accomplishes in T20.

Even SKY who may be the best T20 player ever and is 100x better than Usman Khan is pretty bad at ODIs. And he managed to only play one Test where he failed and hasn’t played again since. And this is despite SKY actually having FC experience which Usman Khan does not have. Usman Khan played 2 FC matches and failed in them.

 

[160KPH]

@mominsaigol

These are the kind of posts/posters who I was dealing with in 2020/21 trying to reason with everyone here that the path taken by Pakistan cricket is the wrong path. This is what I meant about people making extreme excuses to make that 1 player look good

But ultimately I think the reason is that you’re still embarrassed by how Sarfraz Ahmed failed in Australia, the way he always fails in SENA conditions.

I still remember in every single thread of that Test series you were showing up commentating that you were hoping desperately for Rizwan to fail but he kept putting pie on your face.

 

[Rana]

How to be a Rizwan apologist:

1. When he starts failing in T20, bring up his recent performances in other formats

2. When he starts to fail with the bat, remind everyone how valuable he is to the side as a wicket keeper

3. When nothing is going for him, remind everyone that he is such a nice, and humble human being.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

No Babar fan will talk about how he threw his toys out the pram when he resigned as test captain.

The guy had plenty of chances to bring some silverware as captain in the white ball format, in 4 years his biggest accomplishment was taking us to the final of the WT20 in 2022 with the help of Netherlands.

He had the privilege of being the captain of his country in the test format, but he never respected the position he held. He tried to blackmail Zaka Ashraf, warning him that if he was removed from as the LOI captain then he’d resign as the Test captain too. It backfired, and now I hope he never has that privilege again.

 

[Rana]

The guy had plenty of chances to bring some silverware as captain in the white ball format, in 4 years his biggest accomplishment was taking us to the final of the WT20 in 2022 with the help of Netherlands.

The problem isn’t the lack of silverware

The problem is the wrong methods that are being applied in order to compete. The plan under him is TOTALLY WRONG. The only way to win is through fluke, not actual strategy

 

[160KPH]

How to be a Rizwan apologist:

1. When he starts failing in T20, bring up his recent performances in other formats

2. When he starts to fail with the bat, remind everyone how valuable he is to the side as a wicket keeper

3. When nothing is going for him, remind everyone that he is such a nice, and humble human being.

They were talking about Test captaincy, which is what the thread is about.

@PakEngFan was referencing a post @mominsaigol made before about how Usman Khan should replace Rizwan in all formats.

Please try to keep up. If you can’t keep up, at least read the title of the thread.

 

[Cric1234]

No Babar fan will talk about how he threw his toys out the pram when he resigned as test captain.

The guy had plenty of chances to bring some silverware as captain in the white ball format, in 4 years his biggest accomplishment was taking us to the final of the WT20 in 2022 with the help of Netherlands.

He had the privilege of being the captain of his country in the test format, but he never respected the position he held. He tried to blackmail Zaka Ashraf, warning him that if he was removed from as the LOI captain then he’d resign as the Test captain too. It backfired, and now I hope he never has that privilege again.

Back to the flat wickets at home tailor made for Babar to boost his average and Pakistani bowlers to struggle to take 20 wickets.

Last time not even one test win against Australia England and New Zealand welcome back Babar.

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol

These are the kind of posts/posters who I was dealing with in 2020/21 trying to reason with everyone here that the path taken by Pakistan cricket is the wrong path. This is what I meant about people making extreme excuses to make that 1 player look good

I feel you, people want short term fixes not long term solutions.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Babar backed out of the tough Aussie tour and threw a rookie captain to the great white sharks. What's the point of coming back now? There is no honour.

Knowing him and PCB, Shan will be the fall guy for the tough home series against Eng and away tour to SA. When results are bad, Babar will be given a red carpet welcome against WI next year. Then suddenly before next tour to SENA, Babar will make sacrifice for the nation by giving up captaincy, only to return against Sri Lanka or Zimbabwe. Rinse and repeat. Can't understand why cowardice is being hailed by PPers. In the past Imran Khan would take captaincy responsibility only against tough opponents, he skipped a series in Sri Lanka because it wasn't a worthy challenge. Whatever you say about Misbah, he never backed down from a challenge even if it tarnished his record or he suffered whitewashed against his name in SENA.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Dhoni is trolled a lot for his test captaincy but he took 0-8 in 2011 like a man. He could have easily escaped responsibility and passed captaincy to Sehwag, Gambhir, Harbhajan, Zaheer, even seniors like Dravid or Laxman.

But he built that team, he chose to sink with the ship instead of escaping. Remember his test legacy was also solid till the epic series draw in SA in 2010-11, the twin whitewashes in Eng and Aus made him a laughing stock. And we knew the Indian team would do badly in that period because of so many legends past expiry date, transition, injuries etc. That is honour, not like Babar who knew the inevitable against Australia but chose to make Shan a scapegoat despite it being Babar's carefully chosen squad. Shan still did well and could have ended the losing streak if Babar had stepped up with the bat in MCG/SCG or if Shaheen was available in Sydney.

 

[mominsaigol]

They were talking about Test captaincy, which is what the thread is about.

@PakEngFan was referencing a post @mominsaigol made before about how Usman Khan should replace Rizwan in all formats.

Please try to keep up. If you can’t keep up, at least read the title of the thread.

You and Rana seem to have an aggressive rivalry lol.

So I wish to stay out of it.

But in regards to what i said, I claimed what I claimed because I do have a bias against rizwan primarily because I have never appreciated that he doesn't play for the team and only for himself which is the same reason I have criticised Babar.

Also I was caught up on the UK hype train at the time so it did impair my judgement.

Regardless about my views on Babar and rizwan I'll post them here so that everyone especially @PakEngFan who seems to have some sort of animosity towards me, idkw cause I don't view him as such in any way, I just post my disagreements lol, regardless hopefully this post will clear up confusion.

Sarfraz arguments

The reason i like sarfraz is because he played for the team and made himself makeshift which in contrast to babar makes sarfi look 100x better, even though in 2015 sarfraz has a pretty decent record at opening. Secondly in the nadir Ali podcast, you can tell the deamonar of ex cricketers, Salman butt, Umar akmal on that podcast were all salty, egotistical but sarfraz was genuinely wholesome despite that podcast taking place in 2022.

Sarfi was a genuine guy who played for the crest on his chest, he's also a brilliant leader who has had a more succesful captaincy stint then both babar and misbah. His biggest fault is 2018 performances but 2019 isn't as bad as people make it out to be, our 2019 cup performance is miles better then 2023 and 2015. 2015 would have been the worst performance is it wasnt for wahab and sarfraz against sa, Ireland and Australia, these 2 literally carried the whole team back then.

As a batsmen currently he's 37, so his career is over, but any of his haters cannot be called true pakiatani fans. Its hypocritical to claim rizzu and Babar are respected cricketers and good Muslims when sarfraz overall captaincy wise was more succesful and was also a good Muslim and a genuinely wholesome person.

Lastly sarfraz didn't shout nearly as much as babar does in captaincy, Sarfraz once shouted at hasan Ali to stop celebrating a wicket because they were in a pressure situation and still had to win a game, he even said in the podcast, he didn't want hasan to get overconfident for a wicket when theirs a whole game going on,

In contrast to babar who shouted at the team for simply being in a losing position in a psl, or started crying literal tears in the sa game and its clear he just can't handle pressure very well.

Babar and Misbah are both winless captains, but in defence to misbah when he took the team to no 1 in test, Pakistan objectively was top 3 test team in the world given that the team had chuckers, good bowlers, 2 test greats (Misbah and azhar) and a Test atg in the squad + misbah won an asia cup.

Babar when he took the team to no 1, not a single soul believed the team was actually no 1 and was clearly not even top 6 at the time, given that am England who can't beat afg or anyone murdered Pakistan.

So yes, I will get mad when people bring up rizzu, misbah and Babar but start thrashing Sarfaraz when he was clearly the more successful captain and a better Muslim in general. And less selfish as well, if anyone denies babar and rizwan are SELFISH, then imam Slap em.

B) World class

Babar and rizwan are not world class, t20 wise rizwan has an abysmal sr of 122 that has declined to 110, so he shouldn't be in the squad.

As for babar, Babar is a consistent accumulator, but World class would entail that he's in the upper echelons of batsmen across the world when he isn't. I already listed 3 to 4 bats in top teams that are objectively superior to him atm and even to him at prime.

Babar should be appreciated for what he is, A consistent accumulators and a decent run scorer who stabilises the innings, which is good considering many of our other bats are not consistent like saim, Fakhar etc.

Lastly UK being > Rizwan in t20 atm is fact, it's possible he may be a league bully but they both played for the same team, under the same conditions and faced the same bowling. One was clearly superior and deserves a call up and a replacement to rizwan who in t20 is failing atm.

Hope this clears up all confusion and @PakEngFan learns to stop misconstruting everything i say.

 

[160KPH]

You and Rana seem to have an aggressive rivalry lol.

So I wish to stay out of it.

But in regards to what i said, I claimed what I claimed because I do have a bias against rizwan primarily because I have never appreciated that he doesn't play for the team and only for himself which is the same reason I have criticised Babar.

Also I was caught up on the UK hype train at the time so it did impair my judgement.

Regardless about my views on Babar and rizwan I'll post them here so that everyone especially @PakEngFan who seems to have some sort of animosity towards me, idkw cause I don't view him as such in any way, I just post my disagreements lol, regardless hopefully this post will clear up confusion.

Sarfraz arguments

The reason i like sarfraz is because he played for the team and made himself makeshift which in contrast to babar makes sarfi look 100x better, even though in 2015 sarfraz has a pretty decent record at opening. Secondly in the nadir Ali podcast, you can tell the deamonar of ex cricketers, Salman butt, Umar akmal on that podcast were all salty, egotistical but sarfraz was genuinely wholesome despite that podcast taking place in 2022.

Sarfi was a genuine guy who played for the crest on his chest, he's also a brilliant leader who has had a more succesful captaincy stint then both babar and misbah. His biggest fault is 2018 performances but 2019 isn't as bad as people make it out to be, our 2019 cup performance is miles better then 2023 and 2015. 2015 would have been the worst performance is it wasnt for wahab and sarfraz against sa, Ireland and Australia, these 2 literally carried the whole team back then.

As a batsmen currently he's 37, so his career is over, but any of his haters cannot be called true pakiatani fans. Its hypocritical to claim rizzu and Babar are respected cricketers and good Muslims when sarfraz overall captaincy wise was more succesful and was also a good Muslim and a genuinely wholesome person.

Lastly sarfraz didn't shout nearly as much as babar does in captaincy, Sarfraz once shouted at hasan Ali to stop celebrating a wicket because they were in a pressure situation and still had to win a game, he even said in the podcast, he didn't want hasan to get overconfident for a wicket when theirs a whole game going on,

In contrast to babar who shouted at the team for simply being in a losing position in a psl, or started crying literal tears in the sa game and its clear he just can't handle pressure very well.

Babar and Misbah are both winless captains, but in defence to misbah when he took the team to no 1 in test, Pakistan objectively was top 3 test team in the world given that the team had chuckers, good bowlers, 2 test greats (Misbah and azhar) and a Test atg in the squad + misbah won an asia cup.

Babar when he took the team to no 1, not a single soul believed the team was actually no 1 and was clearly not even top 6 at the time, given that am England who can't beat afg or anyone murdered Pakistan.

So yes, I will get mad when people bring up rizzu, misbah and Babar but start thrashing Sarfaraz when he was clearly the more successful captain and a better Muslim in general. And less selfish as well, if anyone denies babar and rizwan are SELFISH, then imam Slap em.

B) World class

Babar and rizwan are not world class, t20 wise rizwan has an abysmal sr of 122 that has declined to 110, so he shouldn't be in the squad.

As for babar, Babar is a consistent accumulator, but World class would entail that he's in the upper echelons of batsmen across the world when he isn't. I already listed 3 to 4 bats in top teams that are objectively superior to him atm and even to him at prime.

Babar should be appreciated for what he is, A consistent accumulators and a decent run scorer who stabilises the innings, which is good considering many of our other bats are not consistent like saim, Fakhar etc.

Lastly UK being > Rizwan in t20 atm is fact, it's possible he may be a league bully but they both played for the same team, under the same conditions and faced the same bowling. One was clearly superior and deserves a call up and a replacement to rizwan who in t20 is failing atm.

Hope this clears up all confusion and @PakEngFan learns to stop misconstruting everything i say.

I think that there is too much confusion because our discussion has been switching between formats and about captaincy/players.

Particularly, in the current discussion, I was talking about Test performances and who can become Test captain and about Test performances as a batsmen.

I like Sarfraz Ahmed too and think he did a fine job leading us particularly in the 2017 CT. But it’s clearly not 2017 anymore.

Sarfraz even in his last Test match against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka right before the Australia tour misjudged a ball and got a bad hit in the back of the head. He left due to the concussion protocol and Rizwan came in and scored an unbeaten 50. It was clear that his reflexes have slowed with age and he was not judging the ball well even on the low and slow pitches in Sri Lanka. It was obvious he would not succeed in Australia. In fact, Sarfraz did not perform well in SENA even when he was in his prime. So when Sarfraz failed horribly against Australia as expected, Rizwan came in and instantly started performing.

When it comes to T20, I don’t care that much about the format in general. I value Test performances 10x as much as T20 performances. But yes, I have been saying for weeks now that Rizwan should not open and his SR is too slow currently for T20, particularly as an opener. I like Usman Khan, but what I do not like is how quickly everyone rushes to hype a player. I hope he has an incredible career, but so far he’s just performed in league cricket. He has many technique flaws which could be exposed by good fast bowling and most of his big strikes come against spin. He may perform at the international level, he may not. But people give too much credit in general to league performances, it does not directly transfer, all the time, to international cricket.

 

[mominsaigol]

I think that there is too much confusion because our discussion has been switching between formats and about captaincy/players.

Particularly, in the current discussion, I was talking about Test performances and who can become Test captain and about Test performances as a batsmen.

I like Sarfraz Ahmed too and think he did a fine job leading us particularly in the 2017 CT. But it’s clearly not 2017 anymore.

Sarfraz even in his last Test match against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka right before the Australia tour misjudged a ball and got a bad hit in the back of the head. He left due to the concussion protocol and Rizwan came in and scored an unbeaten 50. It was clear that his reflexes have slowed with age and he was not judging the ball well even on the low and slow pitches in Sri Lanka. It was obvious he would not succeed in Australia. In fact, Sarfraz did not perform well in SENA even when he was in his prime. So when Sarfraz failed horribly against Australia as expected, Rizwan came in and instantly started performing.

When it comes to T20, I don’t care that much about the format in general. I value Test performances 10x as much as T20 performances. But yes, I have been saying for weeks now that Rizwan should not open and his SR is too slow currently for T20, particularly as an opener. I like Usman Khan, but what I do not like is how quickly everyone rushes to hype a player. I hope he has an incredible career, but so far he’s just performed in league cricket. He has many technique flaws which could be exposed by good fast bowling and most of his big strikes come against spin. He may perform at the international level, he may not. But people give too much credit in general to league performances, it does not directly transfer, all the time, to international cricket.

Good bowling can expose any technique flaws.

Everyone has a flaw in their technique even kohli, quality bowling is hard to okay for any batsmen lol, but what separates a goat from an average batsmen is how well they manage it.

T20 and test are different formats they don't equate, being good in one =/= being good in another.

 

[160KPH]

Good bowling can expose any technique flaws.

Everyone has a flaw in their technique even kohli, quality bowling is hard to okay for any batsmen lol, but what separates a goat from an average batsmen is how well they manage it.

T20 and test are different formats they don't equate, being good in one =/= being good in another.

Yeah I agree with everything you said. In T20, some flaws can be covered up in a way that they can’t be covered up in Test cricket.

This is also why I agreed with you that Usman Khan is probably a good idea at #4 since most of his big strikes come against spin.

Also one thing I always hate, and I’m not saying you do this, is that sometimes it feels like if you like one player people think that means you hate another player. I like Sarfraz, he played some brilliant knocks in Asia in Test. Maybe he can still play some matches in Asia as a batsmen because he was making bucket loads of runs in domestic cricket. But it was clear to me that Rizwan would perform better in SENA because Rizwan has always performed better in SENA, even when Sarfraz was in his prime, but even more so now that Sarfraz is older with slower reflexes.

Why can’t someone like Sarfraz for his contributions including CT win and also like Rizwan for his Test batting in SENA? Or like Shaheen and Babar even though it seems like they were the two considerations for captaincy? I also like almost all of our fast bowlers, Naseem, Shaheen, Rauf, etc

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I believe to reappoint Babar was wrong but if was restored in white ball format without any recent success then he should have been restored in Red ball too. This way even SSA wouldn't have felt discriminated.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yeah I agree with everything you said. In T20, some flaws can be covered up in a way that they can’t be covered up in Test cricket.

This is also why I agreed with you that Usman Khan is probably a good idea at #4 since most of his big strikes come against spin.

Also one thing I always hate, and I’m not saying you do this, is that sometimes it feels like if you like one player people think that means you hate another player. I like Sarfraz, he played some brilliant knocks in Asia in Test. Maybe he can still play some matches in Asia as a batsmen because he was making bucket loads of runs in domestic cricket. But it was clear to me that Rizwan would perform better in SENA because Rizwan has always performed better in SENA, even when Sarfraz was in his prime, but even more so now that Sarfraz is older with slower reflexes.

Why can’t someone like Sarfraz for his contributions including CT win and also like Rizwan for his Test batting in SENA? Or like Shaheen and Babar even though it seems like they were the two considerations for captaincy? I also like almost all of our fast bowlers, Naseem, Shaheen, Rauf, etc

I don't mind rizwan in test, I watched the highlights of Australia test so I changed my mind since then.

Idk about others, but in my case I cannot like babar as a captain, he is milestone obsessed, selfishly promotes himself for no reason( if he stays at no 3 in t20 I'll change my opinion later, but as of now I won't), he shouts at his team when the team is in a losing position like broooo,

his fielding placements are brainless, in one game he had a 3rd slip at in PP 1 but not a 2nd and 1st slip causing it to edge and go for a 4, like who on earth does that?

I've never seen any captain ever do that, 90% of the time he sticks to a formula, in the first asia cup game, India collapsed, but babar took off his fast bowlers and brought on 30 overs of spin and India recovered.

Like bro, just alternate your 3 fast with 3 spin to keep the pressure? That way you'll still have each bowler having 3 overs left at the death so 9 overs of fast?

He never once experimented with his team to find the perfect combination since he doesn't realise that a winning 11 doesn't mean best 11 hence it got exposed. India also had a winning 11 in wc 2023, but that doesn't mean it was their best 11 as the injury of pandya did weaken em and they clearly had flaws with their lower order being weak af.

On top of that he doesn't even understand who's a match winner and who isn't? The SA game I was like damn Bobby is really trying to go for the kill, Yes he exaughted his fast bowlers but he did do his best to go for the kill and get 9 wickets.

Now cones the final over, you only have spin left. It isn't ideal but choose usama has he took 2 wickets in the game so its worth it to gamble since you have no choice.

But no, He chooses nawaz, a dude who was wicketless in the entire world cup prior to that point, faiked to take any wicket during the game, and literally chocked against India in 2022 in a similar scenario Why on earth are you entrusting him to take the final wicket? Like bruhhhhhh????????


I'm sorry to say this but Babar is the worst captain I have ever seen in my life, and yes I mean ever, Nepal captain is better at captaincy this man. Even Misbah was better, Misbah's fault was making horrible selections and having stubborn views on White ball cricket but his decisions and field placements were solid and very very good and his test strategy tactics were amazing.

 

[emranabbas]

This thread is exclusively focused on Test cricket, and whether Babar Azam would come back after disrespecting test captaincy . Please refrain from discussing T20 or other formats.

 

[daytrader]

We don't have tests for a while. The litmus test for the captaincy unfortunately falls on performance in the t20 worldcup. If we win with Babar as captain then he'll only have more power and would open up doors to test captaincy

 

[PakEngFan]

Again you are falling for literals.

Everyone can and should be able to see that Usman is a better player than Rizwan. If you can’t, I’m sorry I cannot really make you see it.

Everyone can and should be able to see that rizwan will be light years ahead of Usman in proper formats. If they can't. I am sorry I cannot really make you see it.

 

[PakEngFan]

Exactly. Test performances are worth 100x anything someone accomplishes in T20.

Even SKY who may be the best T20 player ever and is 100x better than Usman Khan is pretty bad at ODIs. And he managed to only play one Test where he failed and hasn’t played again since. And this is despite SKY actually having FC experience which Usman Khan does not have. Usman Khan played 2 FC matches and failed in them.

It's the hate they have for rizwan there is no way Usman Khan is anywhere near rizwan in tests. I have said a million times I could careless about t20s. If you can't make it in tests you are a failed cricketer. There are many t20 hacks who can't even perform in odis. Usman Khan with his technique will be a sitting duck in tests. Most of our greats in test don't even have a record like rizwan in SENA, but Usman Khan will have better lol after only playing 2 FC matches where he flopped.

 

[PakEngFan]

You and Rana seem to have an aggressive rivalry lol.

So I wish to stay out of it.

But in regards to what i said, I claimed what I claimed because I do have a bias against rizwan primarily because I have never appreciated that he doesn't play for the team and only for himself which is the same reason I have criticised Babar.

Also I was caught up on the UK hype train at the time so it did impair my judgement.

Regardless about my views on Babar and rizwan I'll post them here so that everyone especially @PakEngFan who seems to have some sort of animosity towards me, idkw cause I don't view him as such in any way, I just post my disagreements lol, regardless hopefully this post will clear up confusion.

Sarfraz arguments

The reason i like sarfraz is because he played for the team and made himself makeshift which in contrast to babar makes sarfi look 100x better, even though in 2015 sarfraz has a pretty decent record at opening. Secondly in the nadir Ali podcast, you can tell the deamonar of ex cricketers, Salman butt, Umar akmal on that podcast were all salty, egotistical but sarfraz was genuinely wholesome despite that podcast taking place in 2022.

Sarfi was a genuine guy who played for the crest on his chest, he's also a brilliant leader who has had a more succesful captaincy stint then both babar and misbah. His biggest fault is 2018 performances but 2019 isn't as bad as people make it out to be, our 2019 cup performance is miles better then 2023 and 2015. 2015 would have been the worst performance is it wasnt for wahab and sarfraz against sa, Ireland and Australia, these 2 literally carried the whole team back then.

As a batsmen currently he's 37, so his career is over, but any of his haters cannot be called true pakiatani fans. Its hypocritical to claim rizzu and Babar are respected cricketers and good Muslims when sarfraz overall captaincy wise was more succesful and was also a good Muslim and a genuinely wholesome person.

Lastly sarfraz didn't shout nearly as much as babar does in captaincy, Sarfraz once shouted at hasan Ali to stop celebrating a wicket because they were in a pressure situation and still had to win a game, he even said in the podcast, he didn't want hasan to get overconfident for a wicket when theirs a whole game going on,

In contrast to babar who shouted at the team for simply being in a losing position in a psl, or started crying literal tears in the sa game and its clear he just can't handle pressure very well.

Babar and Misbah are both winless captains, but in defence to misbah when he took the team to no 1 in test, Pakistan objectively was top 3 test team in the world given that the team had chuckers, good bowlers, 2 test greats (Misbah and azhar) and a Test atg in the squad + misbah won an asia cup.

Babar when he took the team to no 1, not a single soul believed the team was actually no 1 and was clearly not even top 6 at the time, given that am England who can't beat afg or anyone murdered Pakistan.

So yes, I will get mad when people bring up rizzu, misbah and Babar but start thrashing Sarfaraz when he was clearly the more successful captain and a better Muslim in general. And less selfish as well, if anyone denies babar and rizwan are SELFISH, then imam Slap em.

B) World class

Babar and rizwan are not world class, t20 wise rizwan has an abysmal sr of 122 that has declined to 110, so he shouldn't be in the squad.

As for babar, Babar is a consistent accumulator, but World class would entail that he's in the upper echelons of batsmen across the world when he isn't. I already listed 3 to 4 bats in top teams that are objectively superior to him atm and even to him at prime.

Babar should be appreciated for what he is, A consistent accumulators and a decent run scorer who stabilises the innings, which is good considering many of our other bats are not consistent like saim, Fakhar etc.

Lastly UK being > Rizwan in t20 atm is fact, it's possible he may be a league bully but they both played for the same team, under the same conditions and faced the same bowling. One was clearly superior and deserves a call up and a replacement to rizwan who in t20 is failing atm.

Hope this clears up all confusion and @PakEngFan learns to stop misconstruting everything i say.

Can you just answer 1 question should Usman Khan replace rizwan in all formats? You already said he should before.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Depending on the result of this World Cup if he performs well there are bright chances that he might regain the Test captaincy as well.

 

[160KPH]

Yes.

 

[mominsaigol]

Depending on the result of this World Cup if he performs well there are bright chances that he might regain the Test captaincy as well.

Naw Bobby will be captain till 2027 in all formats

 

[BouncerGuy]

Those days are not far TBH. Babar is gonna be the captain soon.

 

[emranabbas]

It seems apparent that Babar relinquished the test captaincy out of frustration and possibly as a way to penalize the PCB for removing him from the white-ball captaincy. Could it be that he intentionally underperformed in Australia? It's hard to believe that a legendary batsman often compared to Tendulkar and Bradman, widely regarded as the best batsman cricket has ever seen, could end up with the lowest batting average in that series.

This needs to investigated

 

[mominsaigol]

It seems apparent that Babar relinquished the test captaincy out of frustration and possibly as a way to penalize the PCB for removing him from the white-ball captaincy. Could it be that he intentionally underperformed in Australia? It's hard to believe that a legendary batsman often compared to Tendulkar and Bradman, widely regarded as the best batsman cricket has ever seen, could end up with the lowest batting average in that series.

This needs to investigated

, Zindabad buddy.

 

[Rana]

, Zindabad buddy.

He went right in there like Basit Ali

 

[topspin]

It seems apparent that Babar relinquished the test captaincy out of frustration and possibly as a way to penalize the PCB for removing him from the white-ball captaincy. Could it be that he intentionally underperformed in Australia? It's hard to believe that a legendary batsman often compared to Tendulkar and Bradman, widely regarded as the best batsman cricket has ever seen, could end up with the lowest batting average in that series.

This needs to investigated

Oh bhai let’s not go full Sarfraz Nawaz. He’s just an overrated mental midget.

 

[mominsaigol]

Oh bhai let’s not go full Sarfraz Nawaz. He’s just an overrated mental midget.

Bro he was being sarcastic. Lol

 

[Master Blaster]

A reputed batter and backstabber...only a matter of time before he rises like a pheonix in red ball cricket too to snatch what was always rightfully his...

 

[Ali T]

Shan Masood really is a breath of fresh air as a captain. Really really hope Babar doesn't take over.

In a nutshell, Babar's captaincy in tests depends on Shan's performance.

 

[mominsaigol]

Shan Masood really is a breath of fresh air as a captain. Really really hope Babar doesn't take over.

In a nutshell, Babar's captaincy in tests depends on Shan's performance.

It's a dilemma, worst batsmen vs Worst captain, who do you pick?

 

[Ali T]

It's a dilemma, worst batsmen vs Worst captain, who do you pick?

I think Shan Masood's a pretty good bat haha.
Past performances not so much, but have really high hopes moving forward.

 

[mominsaigol]

I think Shan Masood's a pretty good bat haha.
Past performances not so much, but have really high hopes moving forward.

I've seen him bat. His biggest problem is something that cannot be taught.

In terms of fast bowling he's good for attacking medium deliveries bit anything above 140 his reactions are beyond abysmal, which is surprising, even on his debut at 24, dude had zero reaction timing, almost as if he's some 40 year old cricketer at the end of his rope who's reactions hae slowed down.

As for spin, I haven't seen him play much spin, because he never makes it past pace