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Without India, what could cricket afford?

Junaids

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This week has seen another installment of the well-known soap opera.

The BCCI has insisted that it should enjoy a vast payment from the ICC, because private Indian TV channels allegedly pay 80% of the revenue cricket earns worldwide.

As usual, we are told that if the ICC fails to pay up:

1. India might withdraw from ICC tournaments.
2. India might exit international cricket entirely, and play a 6 or 9 month IPL offering far more money to foreign players than representing their countries.
3. India would easily scoop up the elite cricketers of the poorer countries like South Africa and New Zealand.
4. The rest of the cricket world will go broke unless it pays India what it demands.

But is this actually true? What would happen if India really did leave the ICC? And how much money would the remaining cricket world have to pay its players?

The thing is, we can actually answer those questions. It's not just a matter of speculation.

What do cricketers earn now?
The top New Zealand cricketers are on the following retainers from New Zealand Cricket:

1. Kane Williamson NZ$200,000
2. Martin Guptill NZ$193,000
3. Trent Boult NZ$186,000
6. BJ Watling NZ$165,000
10. Tom Latham NZ$137,000
16. Mitchell Santner NZ$95,000

These are topped up by up to $150,000 by match fees.
Source: http://sportsmaza.com/cricket/new-zealand-cricketers-salary/

South Africa's top players earn even less:

1. AB De Villiers US$120,000
2. Hashim Amla US$111,000
8. Morne Morkel US$75,000
Source: http://sportsmaza.com/cricket/south-african-cricketers-salary/

In contrast, Australia's top 20 players are all on A$900,000 retainers, apart from Steve Smith who gets an extra $212,000 for being the national captain.

Source: http://www.totalsportek.com/cricket/australian-player-salaries/

How much do other Australian sports without Indian revenue pay in salaries?
This can be worked out for four Australian winter sports - all variants of football - which each have a team salary cap, which is the amount of money each team spends on player salaries per season. But let's restrict ourselves to the main two.

Australian Football League: 18 teams, minimum salary spend $10,336,000 per team. TOTAL MINIMUM SALARY SPEND = $186 million per season.

National Rugby League: 16 teams, minimum salary spend $7.1 million (provided as a block grant per club), TOTAL MINIMUM SALARY SPEND = $114 million per season.

What does this mean?
The two main Australian winter sports of Rugby League and Aussie Rules pay their players a combined $300 million in salaries per year.

But they each are watched only by people in certain states, as follows:

Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania, Western Australia - AFL
Queensland, New South Wales, New Zealand's North Island - NRL

And neither sport earns any significant money at all from overseas TV rights.

In effect, even without a cent in Indian TV revenue, there is no reason to think that Australia and England ALONE would be unable to fund salaries for the whole of world cricket.

And much higher salaries than the paltry NZ$95,000 per year that Mitchell Santner is paid by New Zealand Cricket.

So how could world cricket resist India?
The key, obviously, is for the other countries to accept centralised scheduling by the ICC and for all TV revenue to be paid to the ICC.

In fact, even if India refused to play, there is every reason to think that some revenue would be earned from Indian channels anyway.

The ICC would then contract all international cricketers itself, on salaries significantly higher than most of its constituent boards can currently afford.

If we assume 5 bands, they might look something like this:

Tier 1: Elite Global Superstars (Smith, Root et al) $600,000 per year
Tier 2: Top Internationals (Shakib, Sarfraz, Boult et al) $500,000 per year
Tier 3: Established Internationals (Watling, Asad Shafiq et al) $400,000 per year
Tier 4: Occasional Internationals (Neesham, Rahat Ali et al) $300,000 per year
Tier 5: Emerging youngsters (Shadab et al) $200,000 per year

These sums would be topped up by T20 league contracts which each Board would control directly. But T20 leagues would be played in 4 week windows, with no player allowed to play in more than 2 T20 leagues.

Why would this work?
There are only 10 international cricket teams and each one would have 20 designated international players with an effective cap of $8 million per country.

This would mean a grand total of $80 million per year on salaries for the world's top cricketers - less than half as much as Australian Rules Football.

Only 3 non-Indian or Australian regular international cricketers in the world would lose money: Joe Root, Ben Stokes and Alastair Cook. Perhaps Cricket Australia would have to be allowed to continue to top up wages to their current levels.

But New Zealand, South Africa, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe would see their players triple the value of their current contracts, at the very minimum.

The act of pooling revenue and of centralising and standardising contracting of ALL international cricketers would protect international cricket from the threat of India being able to hijack the best players to an extended IPL.

Mitchell Santner employed today by New Zealand Cricket on NZ$95,000 per year might well be tempted by a year-round IPL contract. But employed by the ICC on US$400,000 per year? Probably not!

Likewise Quinton De Kock. Currently Cricket South Africa pays him US$111,000 per year. A centralised ICC contract would be in either the $600,000 or $500,000 band.

Conclusion
At present, the poorer countries' players are vulnerable to being poached by higher salary offers from a 6 month IPL.

But if the ICC took over scheduling, TV revenue and contracting, it could protect its sport by ensuring that players from places like South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan earned enough money to stay in official cricket.

Plus, of course, the current enormous financial incentives for cricketers from those countries to fix which currently exists would be wiped out.

Is this affordable? The fact that the entire global international cricket contract cost would be less than half of the existing Australian Rules Salary Cap suggests that it most definitely is affordable.
 
Looks like it is feasible but then CA AND ECB will be calling the shots which probably is how its supposed tl be.
 
Looks like it is feasible but then CA AND ECB will be calling the shots which probably is how its supposed tl be.

From a Pakistani perspective, naturally the ECB and CA should most certainly be running the ICC.

India doesn't even want to play with Pakistan so that's a big no no
 
I said it before and will do so again, the introduction of IPL and those T20 tournaments similar in nature, will be the final nail in the coffin of players prioritising the vast amounts of money over their country and their duties.

Players deserve monetary security, like anyone in the World, but this will be to the detriment of international cricket.
 
From a Pakistani perspective, naturally the ECB and CA should most certainly be running the ICC.

India doesn't even want to play with Pakistan so that's a big no no

That's fair enough.PCB should rightly think about itself.
 
Looks like it is feasible but then CA AND ECB will be calling the shots which probably is how its supposed tl be.

Where will the money come from? Who will pay that amount of money to ICC,knowing that there is a boycott in India and any relations with ICC will mean negative publicity in the worlds 5th largest economy,which is also the fastest growing.Not to discount the fire of nationalism that politicians will fan.
 
"The BCCI has insisted that it should enjoy a vast payment from the ICC, because private Indian TV channels allegedly pay 80% of the revenue cricket earns worldwide."


What does this even mean?
 
I said it before and will do so again, the introduction of IPL and those T20 tournaments similar in nature, will be the final nail in the coffin of players prioritising the vast amounts of money over their country and their duties.

Players deserve monetary security, like anyone in the World, but this will be to the detriment of international cricket.

Problem is that India doesn't care about anyone. They are only concerned about their own pockets and Cricket as a whole can go and rot.

They think that as they have a billion population who go crazy for 20/20 cricket they can survive and do well by just having the IPL.

What they fail to see is that if emerging nations are not funded properly and the other boards don't receive sufficient funds, in 15-20 years there will be no oversees players to pick for their IPL.
 
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Where will the money come from? Who will pay that amount of money to ICC,knowing that there is a boycott in India and any relations with ICC will mean negative publicity in the worlds 5th largest economy,which is also the fastest growing.Not to discount the fire of nationalism that politicians will fan.

It will survive its a game ,reduced salaries are part of sport as they evolve although cricket didn't reach their peak.

Doesn't matter on economy and what not ECB and CA can arrange Ashes and make money ,CA already has BBL ,Ecb Will get something.

Since they will be running the shkw surely like current scenario they can take cuts and improve the game in name of spirit.
 
Problem is that India doesn't care about anyone. They are only concerned about their own pockets and Cricket as a whole can go and rot.

They think that as they have a billion population who go crazy for 20/20 cricket they can survive and do well by just having the IPL.

What they fail to see is that if emerging nations are not funded properly and the other boards don't receive sufficient funds, in 15-20 years there will be no oversees players to pick for their IPL.

The problem what most posters don't understand is India is not a first world country,there are many places which require infrastructure improvement in sports along with keeping the game attractive and on par with other sports.

Hope you see the reason only recently has cricket become a career option for average Indians where a living can be made from diff areas.
 
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Getting into football has made me realize how small cricket truly is.
 
Problem is that India doesn't care about anyone. They are only concerned about their own pockets and Cricket as a whole can go and rot.

They think that as they have a billion population who go crazy for 20/20 cricket they can survive and do well by just having the IPL.

What they fail to see is that if emerging nations are not funded properly and the other boards don't receive sufficient funds, in 15-20 years there will be no oversees players to pick for their IPL.

How about other boards cut their profits and fund emerging nations? The only region in the world where Cricket is still showing incredible growth is India, so why do you want to suffocate that?

If anything, it should be saturated 1st world markets like England and Australia giving up money to fund a global growth. India has already played it's part by adding two extra zeroes to net ICC revenue.
 
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It will survive its a game ,reduced salaries are part of sport as they evolve although cricket didn't reach their peak.

Doesn't matter on economy and what not ECB and CA can arrange Ashes and make money ,CA already has BBL ,Ecb Will get something.

Since they will be running the shkw surely like current scenario they can take cuts and improve the game in name of spirit.

CA and ECB are not the only boards. Will they be able to bring the same revenue that now comes to ICC?Plus the added burden of paying player salaries of the rest of the world?
 
CA and ECB are not the only boards. Will they be able to bring the same revenue that now comes to ICC?Plus the added burden of paying player salaries of the rest of the world?

Why not in the name of spirit of the game they will take cuts and provide our Asian and Caribbean brothers the desired salries and then take a larger cut in next session and spread the game around the world like they have done for so many years.
 
Why not in the name of spirit of the game they will take cuts and provide our Asian and Caribbean brothers the desired salries and then take a larger cut in next session and spread the game around the world like they have done for so many years.

How big a cut will they take?They may have to take 100% cuts in order to keep their promises to other boards.
 
How about other boards cut their profits and fund emerging nations? The only region in the world where Cricket is still showing incredible growth is India, so why do you want to suffocate that?

If anything, it should be saturated 1st world markets like England and Australia giving up money to fund a global growth. India has already played it's part by adding two extra zeroes to net ICC revenue.

I would suggest you take your nationalist glasses off and see the bigger picture.

Firstly, income generated from IPL cricket remains with India. Is IPL not making sufficient money? the Full houses at games, large TV revenue, huge salaries paid out to players??

Now coming back to International Cricket. India makes the biggest income and rightly has the biggest share.
However, this income is derived from India playing against other international teams. If the Indian public is happy to see India play India A or just stick to T20 cricket in the form of the IPL then so be it.
No one is asking for a share of the IPL profit.
 
CA and ECB are not the only boards. Will they be able to bring the same revenue that now comes to ICC?Plus the added burden of paying player salaries of the rest of the world?

My salary model requires half the outlay that is made in Australian Rules Football. A game which isn't even played in half of Australia, let alone the rest of the world. Let alone India.

It's obvious that cricket minus India can afford it.
 
How big a cut will they take?They may have to take 100% cuts in order to keep their promises to other boards.

Why not isn't that what the selfless creatures are for.

The only thing BCCI should make sure is Indian channels don't telecast INTL cricket championship as suggested by Junaids,let people stream and watch sky willow if they have to.
 
My salary model requires half the outlay that is made in Australian Rules Football. A game which isn't even played in half of Australia, let alone the rest of the world. Let alone India.

It's obvious that cricket minus India can afford it.

Your model is pretty good question is will CA and ECB let go of their share in a distributed model.
 
My salary model requires half the outlay that is made in Australian Rules Football. A game which isn't even played in half of Australia, let alone the rest of the world. Let alone India.

It's obvious that cricket minus India can afford it.

Go ahead.Ask ICC to implement it.
 
I would suggest you take your nationalist glasses off and see the bigger picture.

Firstly, income generated from IPL cricket remains with India. Is IPL not making sufficient money? the Full houses at games, large TV revenue, huge salaries paid out to players??

Now coming back to International Cricket. India makes the biggest income and rightly has the biggest share.
However, this income is derived from India playing against other international teams. If the Indian public is happy to see India play India A or just stick to T20 cricket in the form of the IPL then so be it.
No one is asking for a share of the IPL profit.

Biggest share?Like 10%?Thats what the offer is.
 
That's fair enough.PCB should rightly think about itself.

BCCI is to blame for breaking Asian bloc... They antagonized Pakistan by refusing to play.... Then they antagonized the rest with Big 3 model.... They thought ''We're big dogs now, don't need Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka''...... But Asian bloc took its revenge today.....:salute
 
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Without cricket what will Indians watch? :91: :91:

Oh you realize there are other sports except cricket right? Oh nevermind, you are from Pakistan. Let's have a chat about hockey, tennis, badminton and wrestling.
And lastly ICC does not own cricket you realize that right?
 
BCCI is to blame for breaking Asian bloc... They antagonized Pakistan by refusing to play.... Then they antagonized the rest with Big 3 model.... They thought ''We're big dogs now, don't need Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka''...... But Asian bloc took its revenge today.....:salute

We have been pretty fair to Bangladesh/Lanka and even Afghans .Pakistan is a different issue.
 
I would suggest you take your nationalist glasses off and see the bigger picture.

Firstly, income generated from IPL cricket remains with India. Is IPL not making sufficient money? the Full houses at games, large TV revenue, huge salaries paid out to players??

Now coming back to International Cricket. India makes the biggest income and rightly has the biggest share.
However, this income is derived from India playing against other international teams. If the Indian public is happy to see India play India A or just stick to T20 cricket in the form of the IPL then so be it.
No one is asking for a share of the IPL profit.

Are Big Bash profits accounted for while deciding what share CA gets? Same with PCB.. would you recommend cutting PCB share by half if PSL goes big?

Don't confuse IPL ecosystem with international Cricket, it is pure commercial endeavor and doesn't take responsibility to grow sport anywhere. Most of the money that comes goes back to franchises who have to recover their investment.

Overall, ICC revenue is critical to the growth of sport not just worldwide but also in India. Morally or logically, ICC revenues must follow a path that sees maximum growth to the sport. Despite being a Cricketing powerhouse, India still fulfills that criteria.
 
We have been pretty fair to Bangladesh/Lanka and even Afghans .Pakistan is a different issue.

Big Three model cut their revenues in favour of Australia, England and India.... You decided to trust Australia and England instead of us..... Now you can see how that trust works... Asians stick together, England and Australia backstab.... Shouldn't have betrayed Asian bloc and you'd be doing well now....

There is a proverb in Urdu: ''Dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka, na gaat ka''
 
Anyone in his right mind would agree that the market seeing the fastest growth in Cricket shouldn't be the one being suffocated. If anyone is to take profit cuts, it should be saturated 1st world markets like England and Australia.
 
Big Three model cut their revenues in favour of Australia, England and India.... You decided to trust Australia and England instead of us..... Now you can see how that trust works... Asians stick together, England and Australia backstab.... Shouldn't have betrayed Asian bloc and you'd be doing well now....

There is a proverb in Urdu: ''Dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka, na gaat ka''

Cutting their ICC revenue by giving them bilateral tours almost sounded like a fair deal. Also dude that proverb is not for this situation because the kutta never had power over the Dhobi.Its always better to see what boards gained when they made such a deal,sadly for PCB it wasn't and they voted against it so all good.
 
Anyone in his right mind would agree that the market seeing the fastest growth in Cricket shouldn't be the one being suffocated. If anyone is to take profit cuts, it should be saturated 1st world markets like England and Australia.

Actually, I'm not sure that the ICC should pay a single cent to any of the Boards. BCCI included.

I think that the ICC should get all the TV money for all international cricket, and streaming and tournament revenue. And spend it on coordinating the game and paying all players' salaries.

Each board could then make detailed submissions for ICC grants to pay for development and infrastructure, which an independent committee would administer.

The boards would still get to keep gate receipts from their cricket, including a 4 week T20 competition from which they could also keep the proceeds of TV sales.

The days of ICC money being given to Boards to pay for the votes of Local cricket associations (hello BCCI) would be over. They would have to come up with a detailed plan for what needs an ICC grant. And the ICC would pay the money directly to the recipient.
 
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Anyone in his right mind would agree that the market seeing the fastest growth in Cricket shouldn't be the one being suffocated. If anyone is to take profit cuts, it should be saturated 1st world markets like England and Australia.

and this comes back to my point.

You want less of your share cut ti develop cricket further India. That's great but who will you be playing against? Australia and England? Twice a year every year?

The idea is to ensure development in existing countries and helping the game grow in others.
The more countries that play it and become competitive in it means greater the income in the long run.

To do nothing means that the game eventually dies.
 
Cutting their ICC revenue by giving them bilateral tours almost sounded like a fair deal. Also dude that proverb is not for this situation because the kutta never had power over the Dhobi.Its always better to see what boards gained when they made such a deal,sadly for PCB it wasn't and they voted against it so all good.

You're right they did get some money out of it... But are bilaterals forever? Under big 3, India is playing Australia and England more than anyone else in last 7 years.... SL used to play India 10x a year, now I can't even remember last time.... It's not hard to see that the bilaterals would cease in front of money for playing against Australia and England.... Which is why Bangladesh and SL voted against you.... If new model was good to them, why did they vote against?

Dhobi is Sri Mama in this case :P
 
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Are Big Bash profits accounted for while deciding what share CA gets? Same with PCB.. would you recommend cutting PCB share by half if PSL goes big?

Don't confuse IPL ecosystem with international Cricket, it is pure commercial endeavor and doesn't take responsibility to grow sport anywhere. Most of the money that comes goes back to franchises who have to recover their investment.

Overall, ICC revenue is critical to the growth of sport not just worldwide but also in India. Morally or logically, ICC revenues must follow a path that sees maximum growth to the sport. Despite being a Cricketing powerhouse, India still fulfills that criteria.

Nothing is considered when it comes to CA. We get the exact same amount as Sri Lanka, the West Indies and New Zealand.
 
[MENTION=137723]JoniInsafian[/MENTION] Think Lanka supported us in one of the votes and if Srini mama was there this situation wouldn't have arised, it came because of ex BCCI Shashank Manohar.
 
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and this comes back to my point.

You want less of your share cut ti develop cricket further India. That's great but who will you be playing against? Australia and England? Twice a year every year?

The idea is to ensure development in existing countries and helping the game grow in others.
The more countries that play it and become competitive in it means greater the income in the long run.

To do nothing means that the game eventually dies.

For last 100 years, Cricket has survived and flourished without extra members. So to say that doing nothing will contribute to it's death now is nothing but delusion.

Yes, as a fan, I too would prefer seeing newer members. This is something we both agree on. Now the question is, should the fastest growing Cricket market suffer to achieve the same? Do not forget that it was BCCI that turned the millions of ICC revenue into billions. Same BCCI has the potential to turn these billions into tens of billions.

What will lead to Cricket dying is not the lack of countries playing, but BCCI's downfall. ICC couldn't have dreamed of sharing $110 million with two associates 15 years ago. For all of BCCI's greed, they are the ones making expansion of Cricket a reality... and for that to continue, BCCI deserve what they ask for here. Neglecting Indian market for newer ones could be the biggest mistake ICC will make.
 
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For last 100 years, Cricket has survived and flourished without extra members. So to say that doing nothing will contribute to it's death now is nothing but delusion.

Yes, as a fan, I too would prefer seeing newer members. This is something we both agree on. Now the question is, should the fastest growing Cricket market suffer to achieve the same? Do not forget that it was BCCI that turned the millions of ICC revenue into billions. Same BCCI has the potential to turn these billions into tens of billions.

What will lead to Cricket dying is not the lack of countries playing, but BCCI's downfall. ICC couldn't have dreamed of sharing $110 million with two associates 15 years ago. For all of BCCI's greed, they are the ones making expansion of Cricket a reality... and for that to continue, BCCI deserve what they ask for here. Neglecting Indian market for newer ones could be the biggest mistake ICC will make.

We will have to agree to disagree.
 
For last 100 years, Cricket has survived and flourished without extra members. So to say that doing nothing will contribute to it's death now is nothing but delusion.

Yes, as a fan, I too would prefer seeing newer members. This is something we both agree on. Now the question is, should the fastest growing Cricket market suffer to achieve the same? Do not forget that it was BCCI that turned the millions of ICC revenue into billions. Same BCCI has the potential to turn these billions into tens of billions.

What will lead to Cricket dying is not the lack of countries playing, but BCCI's downfall. ICC couldn't have dreamed of sharing $110 million with two associates 15 years ago. For all of BCCI's greed, they are the ones making expansion of Cricket a reality... and for that to continue, BCCI deserve what they ask for here. Neglecting Indian market for newer ones could be the biggest mistake ICC will make.

How? Why?

The BCCI already pays Indian players handsomely.

But over 80%of its ICC disboursement is basically used to obtain votes from local cricket associations. The money is utterly squandered, the same way Jack Warner used to squander all the FIFA money that Trinidad and Tobago used to receive.

Some of you are turning this into some sort of battle for the pride of India. It's nothing of the sort. The BCCI hierarchy just wants the ICC to give it money that it can spend on buying votes.
 
I would love to see this happen. It would be great seeing who budges first because we all know India cannot live without cricket, whereas ICC can make the game survive without India. But above all, I think this needed to happen to quell the BCCI's greed. They think just because they have two billion people, they have special privileges.
 
How? Why?

The BCCI already pays Indian players handsomely.

But over 80%of its ICC disboursement is basically used to obtain votes from local cricket associations. The money is utterly squandered, the same way Jack Warner used to squander all the FIFA money that Trinidad and Tobago used to receive.

Some of you are turning this into some sort of battle for the pride of India. It's nothing of the sort. The BCCI hierarchy just wants the ICC to give it money that it can spend on buying votes.

It isn't just about Indian players, is it? Growing middle class population in India demands better stadiums and infrastructure, the domestic players want better money, every city wants a Cricket academy.. the expenditures are rising rapidly every year. As for the money spent for politics within BCCI, it is unavoidable. This is how things work here.

You and I know that the whole debate here is Cricket's growth, and that ain't happening with the scenario you propose. All I am suggesting here is saturated Cricket markets giving up on some profit, and that is the best way to accommodate upcoming nations. ECB and CA have no business waking away with nearly as much money as India gets.
 
Oh you realize there are other sports except cricket right? Oh nevermind, you are from Pakistan. Let's have a chat about hockey, tennis, badminton and wrestling.
And lastly ICC does not own cricket you realize that right?

How can you go from watching a sport your entire life and to an another sport because your board is being stupid ? :))). We only watch sports that we are good at and that is why Cricket became the most popular sport after we won the 83 world cup. We are not the best in hockey, the Chinese and Koreans will murder us in Badminton and who the heck wants to watch Amateur Wrestling ? :))). You live in Canada, so you don't understand how much cricket matters to Indians like me who has lived most of our life only watching cricket. Even if I try, I can't stop watching cricket. :danish
 
"The BCCI has insisted that it should enjoy a vast payment from the ICC, because private Indian TV channels allegedly pay 80% of the revenue cricket earns worldwide."


What does this even mean?

It means "give us more money because Indian audience watch 80% of world cricket".
 
people still play the amateur leagues.

so with or without india cricket will continue to do what it is doing. i am already someone who believes that there should be a balance of pay - a doctor saves a life, gets not that much; a footballer runs around a lil, makes more in a week.
 
How can you go from watching a sport your entire life and to an another sport because your board is being stupid ? :))). We only watch sports that we are good at and that is why Cricket became the most popular sport after we won the 83 world cup. We are not the best in hockey, the Chinese and Koreans will murder us in Badminton and who the heck wants to watch Amateur Wrestling ? :))). You live in Canada, so you don't understand how much cricket matters to Indians like me who has lived most of our life only watching cricket. Even if I try, I can't stop watching cricket. :danish

India have billion people and most watch multiple sports :))
 
I don't know the nitty gritty but I just love how India got the rough end of the stick, something they have been doing to smaller boards for the last two years.

You reap what you sow.

Well done ICC

:salute
 
How can you go from watching a sport your entire life and to an another sport because your board is being stupid ? :))). We only watch sports that we are good at and that is why Cricket became the most popular sport after we won the 83 world cup. We are not the best in hockey, the Chinese and Koreans will murder us in Badminton and who the heck wants to watch Amateur Wrestling ? :))). You live in Canada, so you don't understand how much cricket matters to Indians like me who has lived most of our life only watching cricket. Even if I try, I can't stop watching cricket. :danish

Couple things I'd point out. Who says without BCCI being a part of ICC - there is no Indian cricket ? So let's get this quite straight . ICC does not own cricket. If tomorrow BCCI opens WCC- world cricket council - It can play cricket. If BCCI decides to play cricket outside ICC administrative helm - It surely can . Would other countries be banned by ICC to stop playing BCCI ? I doubt it.
Secondly, WI board players without being signed to central contracts are still playing cricket .
 
I don't know the nitty gritty but I just love how India got the rough end of the stick, something they have been doing to smaller boards for the last two years.

You reap what you sow.

Well done ICC

:salute

You do realize India still is making more money than other Boards. ICC is giving 100 million extra to BCCI - .
Wondered why PCB never got that much money considering PCB and BCCI pretty much share the same lineage and history ?
Lastly, I am not sure if you are buisness savvy or an entrepreneur but in real world - you don't get if you don't ask for it. If BCCI is taking a stand for itself - well and good , they don't need cheerleaders. Why would BCCI seek support from PCB , we aren't gonna share it with them so I don't expect anyone's support. Learn to stand by yourself - You may have to one day for yourself
 
I would love to see this happen. It would be great seeing who budges first because we all know India cannot live without cricket, whereas ICC can make the game survive without India. But above all, I think this needed to happen to quell the BCCI's greed. They think just because they have two billion people, they have special privileges.

It isn't about greed, its about fairness. ICC isn't making any money on their own.
Who is generating income for the ICC ?
WCB ? - with the population and prices of TV rights in WCB ?
PCB - there is no cricket in Pakistan
BD board - not much revenue from them
SLC - limited due to its population
SAF - they have quite a number of other sports - Rugby is the number puller for them
ECB and CA and most of the money coming from BCCI
 
Nice thread this something that needs to be understood to understand what india's importance to cricket is, now onto your assumptions which frankly put are stupid, NRL and AFL are popular and well supported in australia, their nos have absolute nothing to do with cricket, cricket does not have anywhere near that sort of viewership in australia or for that matter anywhere other than india and may be pakistan,

http://www.theage.com.au/business/m...ket-contract-by-analysts-20170425-gvruzl.html

this is current status of tv deal currently held by channel 9 for all cricket in australia. They surely won't be renewing it at the current rate let alone higher one that is if they renew.The situation in england isn't much different, ECB's stupid bid for cricket matches deal has really hurt the counties, a situation that will take years to resolve. Sky ofcourse will still pay well for ecb tv deals, but don't expect the deals to be the same if indian audience suddenly vanishes from the deal.

Also your whole premise is based on creating a brand new audience for cricket because no indians playing cricket means most of the indians won't be watching your matches, do you really beleive that such a thing happens in a day or 2, that is a sort of thing that can very well require decades if not more, just take the example of football in USA, FIFA has been trying to market football in USA for god knows how many decades, yet it is well behind basketball, baseball and american football in usa, audiences don't just drop out of the sky because you wish it.

Another thing you have completely left out of your equation is the money earned via ipl, Aussies earn big and so do english but what happens when kane williamson gets an offer to play in ipl for a 2-3 months for lot more than 200000 and in USD not NZD, same with a lot of the nations, SA is already facing issues due to their quota system and that is without ipl, do you think cricketers will universally back their respective boards in their powerplay rather than looking after their own families and life.
 
It isn't about greed, its about fairness. ICC isn't making any money on their own.
Who is generating income for the ICC ?
WCB ? - with the population and prices of TV rights in WCB ?
PCB - there is no cricket in Pakistan
BD board - not much revenue from them
SLC - limited due to its population
SAF - they have quite a number of other sports - Rugby is the number puller for them
ECB and CA and most of the money coming from BCCI

It is very much about greed. India are interested only in filling their own pockets and running the show their way. They couldn't care less about how other countries fare or how much the game grows globally.
They had this coming.
 
It is very much about greed. India are interested only in filling their own pockets and running the show their way. They couldn't care less about how other countries fare or how much the game grows globally.
They had this coming.

Why can't Pakistan or England or Bangal gives up 10% o their share to help associates? don't you think these boards are also greedy? At the end of day these boards cater to 1/6th population compared to BCCI.
 
Some of you are turning this into some sort of battle for the pride of India.

It's always about that...never seen people get so sensitive with criticism about an organization. Criticize anything about BCCI or Indian players and these fans come out thinking you've demonized their entire family lineage.
 
It's always about that...never seen people get so sensitive with criticism about an organization. Criticize anything about BCCI or Indian players and these fans come out thinking you've demonized their entire family lineage.


Ditto, we see Pak fans criticizing PCB and Pak players right, left and center BUT when it comes to anything Indian, no sir, that is a big Paap!
 
It is very much about greed. India are interested only in filling their own pockets and running the show their way. They couldn't care less about how other countries fare or how much the game grows globally.
They had this coming.

With global growth - I don't think that ever is BCCI's call nor do I see an effort for BCCI to oppose it, not more than anyone else.
ECB and CA aren't doing charity as well - each board does what's best for them. If they can find a middle ground that's well and fair
 
The BCCI has insisted that it should enjoy a vast payment from the ICC, because private Indian TV channels allegedly pay 80% of the revenue cricket earns worldwide.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] That is none of BCCI's business. Private indian tv channels, sponsors and fans are not owned by BCCI. So this is a faulty logic. How would you feel if I say ECB deserves the biggest share because they invented cricket?
 
This week has seen another installment of the well-known soap opera.

The BCCI has insisted that it should enjoy a vast payment from the ICC, because private Indian TV channels allegedly pay 80% of the revenue cricket earns worldwide.

As usual, we are told that if the ICC fails to pay up:

1. India might withdraw from ICC tournaments.
2. India might exit international cricket entirely, and play a 6 or 9 month IPL offering far more money to foreign players than representing their countries.
3. India would easily scoop up the elite cricketers of the poorer countries like South Africa and New Zealand.
4. The rest of the cricket world will go broke unless it pays India what it demands.

But is this actually true? What would happen if India really did leave the ICC? And how much money would the remaining cricket world have to pay its players?

The thing is, we can actually answer those questions. It's not just a matter of speculation.

What do cricketers earn now?
The top New Zealand cricketers are on the following retainers from New Zealand Cricket:

1. Kane Williamson NZ$200,000
2. Martin Guptill NZ$193,000
3. Trent Boult NZ$186,000
6. BJ Watling NZ$165,000
10. Tom Latham NZ$137,000
16. Mitchell Santner NZ$95,000

These are topped up by up to $150,000 by match fees.
Source: http://sportsmaza.com/cricket/new-zealand-cricketers-salary/

South Africa's top players earn even less:

1. AB De Villiers US$120,000
2. Hashim Amla US$111,000
8. Morne Morkel US$75,000
Source: http://sportsmaza.com/cricket/south-african-cricketers-salary/

In contrast, Australia's top 20 players are all on A$900,000 retainers, apart from Steve Smith who gets an extra $212,000 for being the national captain.

Source: http://www.totalsportek.com/cricket/australian-player-salaries/

How much do other Australian sports without Indian revenue pay in salaries?
This can be worked out for four Australian winter sports - all variants of football - which each have a team salary cap, which is the amount of money each team spends on player salaries per season. But let's restrict ourselves to the main two.

Australian Football League: 18 teams, minimum salary spend $10,336,000 per team. TOTAL MINIMUM SALARY SPEND = $186 million per season.

National Rugby League: 16 teams, minimum salary spend $7.1 million (provided as a block grant per club), TOTAL MINIMUM SALARY SPEND = $114 million per season.

What does this mean?
The two main Australian winter sports of Rugby League and Aussie Rules pay their players a combined $300 million in salaries per year.

But they each are watched only by people in certain states, as follows:

Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania, Western Australia - AFL
Queensland, New South Wales, New Zealand's North Island - NRL

And neither sport earns any significant money at all from overseas TV rights.

In effect, even without a cent in Indian TV revenue, there is no reason to think that Australia and England ALONE would be unable to fund salaries for the whole of world cricket.

And much higher salaries than the paltry NZ$95,000 per year that Mitchell Santner is paid by New Zealand Cricket.

So how could world cricket resist India?
The key, obviously, is for the other countries to accept centralised scheduling by the ICC and for all TV revenue to be paid to the ICC.

In fact, even if India refused to play, there is every reason to think that some revenue would be earned from Indian channels anyway.

The ICC would then contract all international cricketers itself, on salaries significantly higher than most of its constituent boards can currently afford.

If we assume 5 bands, they might look something like this:

Tier 1: Elite Global Superstars (Smith, Root et al) $600,000 per year
Tier 2: Top Internationals (Shakib, Sarfraz, Boult et al) $500,000 per year
Tier 3: Established Internationals (Watling, Asad Shafiq et al) $400,000 per year
Tier 4: Occasional Internationals (Neesham, Rahat Ali et al) $300,000 per year
Tier 5: Emerging youngsters (Shadab et al) $200,000 per year

These sums would be topped up by T20 league contracts which each Board would control directly. But T20 leagues would be played in 4 week windows, with no player allowed to play in more than 2 T20 leagues.

Why would this work?
There are only 10 international cricket teams and each one would have 20 designated international players with an effective cap of $8 million per country.

This would mean a grand total of $80 million per year on salaries for the world's top cricketers - less than half as much as Australian Rules Football.

Only 3 non-Indian or Australian regular international cricketers in the world would lose money: Joe Root, Ben Stokes and Alastair Cook. Perhaps Cricket Australia would have to be allowed to continue to top up wages to their current levels.

But New Zealand, South Africa, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe would see their players triple the value of their current contracts, at the very minimum.

The act of pooling revenue and of centralising and standardising contracting of ALL international cricketers would protect international cricket from the threat of India being able to hijack the best players to an extended IPL.

Mitchell Santner employed today by New Zealand Cricket on NZ$95,000 per year might well be tempted by a year-round IPL contract. But employed by the ICC on US$400,000 per year? Probably not!

Likewise Quinton De Kock. Currently Cricket South Africa pays him US$111,000 per year. A centralised ICC contract would be in either the $600,000 or $500,000 band.

Conclusion
At present, the poorer countries' players are vulnerable to being poached by higher salary offers from a 6 month IPL.

But if the ICC took over scheduling, TV revenue and contracting, it could protect its sport by ensuring that players from places like South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan earned enough money to stay in official cricket.

Plus, of course, the current enormous financial incentives for cricketers from those countries to fix which currently exists would be wiped out.

Is this affordable? The fact that the entire global international cricket contract cost would be less than half of the existing Australian Rules Salary Cap suggests that it most definitely is affordable.

The problem you ignore is a lot of the funding for the present levels is possible because of the overall ICC funding 80% of which comes from India. If that funding goes, even these existing levels cannot be sustained.
 
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] That is none of BCCI's business. Private indian tv channels, sponsors and fans are not owned by BCCI. So this is a faulty logic. How would you feel if I say ECB deserves the biggest share because they invented cricket?

It would be bcci's business if the the indian tv channels pay money mostly for tv viewership which is mostly centered around indian team, are you saying that no. of indians who watch cricket without indian team playing in the contest will be same as the no of indians watching when india is playing, because the only empirical evidence available that is the 2007 worldcup shows majority indians mostly don't care much about cricket outside indian team or maybe ipl.
 
Which other major sport is India any good at?

I take it you are talking in terms of viewership and following, kabaddi is very popular right now, same with ISL which regularly is filling up a decent portion of whatever stadium it is played in.
 
This week has seen another installment of the well-known soap opera.

The BCCI has insisted that it should enjoy a vast payment from the ICC, because private Indian TV channels allegedly pay 80% of the revenue cricket earns worldwide.

As usual, we are told that if the ICC fails to pay up:

1. India might withdraw from ICC tournaments.
2. India might exit international cricket entirely, and play a 6 or 9 month IPL offering far more money to foreign players than representing their countries.
3. India would easily scoop up the elite cricketers of the poorer countries like South Africa and New Zealand.
4. The rest of the cricket world will go broke unless it pays India what it demands.

But is this actually true? What would happen if India really did leave the ICC? And how much money would the remaining cricket world have to pay its players?

The thing is, we can actually answer those questions. It's not just a matter of speculation.

What do cricketers earn now?
The top New Zealand cricketers are on the following retainers from New Zealand Cricket:

1. Kane Williamson NZ$200,000
2. Martin Guptill NZ$193,000
3. Trent Boult NZ$186,000
6. BJ Watling NZ$165,000
10. Tom Latham NZ$137,000
16. Mitchell Santner NZ$95,000

These are topped up by up to $150,000 by match fees.
Source: http://sportsmaza.com/cricket/new-zealand-cricketers-salary/

South Africa's top players earn even less:

1. AB De Villiers US$120,000
2. Hashim Amla US$111,000
8. Morne Morkel US$75,000
Source: http://sportsmaza.com/cricket/south-african-cricketers-salary/

In contrast, Australia's top 20 players are all on A$900,000 retainers, apart from Steve Smith who gets an extra $212,000 for being the national captain.

Source: http://www.totalsportek.com/cricket/australian-player-salaries/

How much do other Australian sports without Indian revenue pay in salaries?
This can be worked out for four Australian winter sports - all variants of football - which each have a team salary cap, which is the amount of money each team spends on player salaries per season. But let's restrict ourselves to the main two.

Australian Football League: 18 teams, minimum salary spend $10,336,000 per team. TOTAL MINIMUM SALARY SPEND = $186 million per season.

National Rugby League: 16 teams, minimum salary spend $7.1 million (provided as a block grant per club), TOTAL MINIMUM SALARY SPEND = $114 million per season.

What does this mean?
The two main Australian winter sports of Rugby League and Aussie Rules pay their players a combined $300 million in salaries per year.

But they each are watched only by people in certain states, as follows:

Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania, Western Australia - AFL
Queensland, New South Wales, New Zealand's North Island - NRL

And neither sport earns any significant money at all from overseas TV rights.

In effect, even without a cent in Indian TV revenue, there is no reason to think that Australia and England ALONE would be unable to fund salaries for the whole of world cricket.

And much higher salaries than the paltry NZ$95,000 per year that Mitchell Santner is paid by New Zealand Cricket.

So how could world cricket resist India?
The key, obviously, is for the other countries to accept centralised scheduling by the ICC and for all TV revenue to be paid to the ICC.

In fact, even if India refused to play, there is every reason to think that some revenue would be earned from Indian channels anyway.

The ICC would then contract all international cricketers itself, on salaries significantly higher than most of its constituent boards can currently afford.

If we assume 5 bands, they might look something like this:

Tier 1: Elite Global Superstars (Smith, Root et al) $600,000 per year
Tier 2: Top Internationals (Shakib, Sarfraz, Boult et al) $500,000 per year
Tier 3: Established Internationals (Watling, Asad Shafiq et al) $400,000 per year
Tier 4: Occasional Internationals (Neesham, Rahat Ali et al) $300,000 per year
Tier 5: Emerging youngsters (Shadab et al) $200,000 per year

These sums would be topped up by T20 league contracts which each Board would control directly. But T20 leagues would be played in 4 week windows, with no player allowed to play in more than 2 T20 leagues.

Why would this work?
There are only 10 international cricket teams and each one would have 20 designated international players with an effective cap of $8 million per country.

This would mean a grand total of $80 million per year on salaries for the world's top cricketers - less than half as much as Australian Rules Football.

Only 3 non-Indian or Australian regular international cricketers in the world would lose money: Joe Root, Ben Stokes and Alastair Cook. Perhaps Cricket Australia would have to be allowed to continue to top up wages to their current levels.

But New Zealand, South Africa, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe would see their players triple the value of their current contracts, at the very minimum.

The act of pooling revenue and of centralising and standardising contracting of ALL international cricketers would protect international cricket from the threat of India being able to hijack the best players to an extended IPL.

Mitchell Santner employed today by New Zealand Cricket on NZ$95,000 per year might well be tempted by a year-round IPL contract. But employed by the ICC on US$400,000 per year? Probably not!

Likewise Quinton De Kock. Currently Cricket South Africa pays him US$111,000 per year. A centralised ICC contract would be in either the $600,000 or $500,000 band.

Conclusion
At present, the poorer countries' players are vulnerable to being poached by higher salary offers from a 6 month IPL.

But if the ICC took over scheduling, TV revenue and contracting, it could protect its sport by ensuring that players from places like South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan earned enough money to stay in official cricket.

Plus, of course, the current enormous financial incentives for cricketers from those countries to fix which currently exists would be wiped out.

Is this affordable? The fact that the entire global international cricket contract cost would be less than half of the existing Australian Rules Salary Cap suggests that it most definitely is affordable.

Your analysis is wishful thinking on many levels, but here are the most obvious flaws:

1) Cricket in Australia does not have the same following as does Rugby/Football. Nor does cricket in Eng have the same following as football. Following your logic is equivalent to saying "Hey, ManU just paid £57 million on buying 2 new players (Eric Bailly and Henrikh Mkhitaryan) so county cricket teams Middlesex and Yorkshire should be able to pay their players £57 million too".

2) If really there was so much money in cricket then we would not have Stokes and Mills getting paid 5X from IPL what they would otherwise, and saying their IPL payday was a "life changing event". In reality, the money paid by IPL far outstrips all other leagues because simply there is much more money in India than elsewhere.

3) There is the issue of long term growth. The Indian economy is growing at 7.5%, whereas Eng and Aus barely make it to 2%. Over a period of 20 years, this becomes a difference of 300%. So instead of the $2M contract Stokes got, a player of his caliber can expect $6M in 20 years. There is nothing Aus or Eng will ever offer that will induce players not to play in India, just like the world's best players now leave their home leagues as soon as they get a NBA contract.
 
Regardless of what Indian posters say, I think India will ultimately suffer more if this actually happens. They can't live without cricket and regardless of how long they hold the IPL or how much they pay players like Stokes, international duty will ALWAYS trump IPL for marquee players.
 
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international duty will ALWAYS trump IPL for marquee players.

Just like it is currently for Gayle, Narine, Pollard etc.

Saying money doesn't matter is easy to do when it is someone else who is supposed to give up the money.
 
Cricket without India at the moment would be a financial mess. At least for many years it needs Indian money to survive. Unlike Football where many teams can spend £££ million's in Cricket perhaps only India followed by Australia has serious cash. This also means that India will influence Cricket related decision in many ways. Considering Cricket is also Pak's major Sport we should have a greater share of the cake as well. Hopefully, that will happen once international Cricket returns to Pak and if the PCB can sort out their never ending problems. There is a chance of this happening after the next elections.
 
Just like it is currently for Gayle, Narine, Pollard etc.

Saying money doesn't matter is easy to do when it is someone else who is supposed to give up the money.

Name any other big international player who is active and isn't from West Indies who would give up international duty for IPL. West Indies players have no choice. Their board has no money and disputes with every player. But I can most definitely assure you players like Smith, Stokes, Amla, Williamson, Warner etc. etc. will not even think twice when it comes to deciding between making some extra money and playing for their respective countries.
 
Name any other big international player who is active and isn't from West Indies who would give up international duty for IPL. West Indies players have no choice. Their board has no money and disputes with every player. But I can most definitely assure you players like Smith, Stokes, Amla, Williamson, Warner etc. etc. will not even think twice when it comes to deciding between making some extra money and playing for their respective countries.

Have you read ABD's comments on the IPL? Believe me, if he was forced by his board to choose between the SA team and IPL, he would choose IPL in a heartbeat.
 
Just love the audacity of the new distribution which cuts India's share to half, leaves England and Australia's share unchanged, and spends $100+ million building new offices in England.

I suppose after a couple of centuries of bleeding India dry, the English want to grab whatever Indian money they now can. Sorry guys, the colonial days are long past.
 
Have you read ABD's comments on the IPL? Believe me, if he was forced by his board to choose between the SA team and IPL, he would choose IPL in a heartbeat.

Your comments are speculative at best. I highly doubt a player of his stature would miss out on an important series over IPL unless it was against a minnow. The power of the board and his central contract by far exceeds that. I'm pretty sure there's something about these T20 leagues in every player's central contract.
 
Your comments are speculative at best. I highly doubt a player of his stature would miss out on an important series over IPL unless it was against a minnow. The power of the board and his central contract by far exceeds that. I'm pretty sure there's something about these T20 leagues in every player's central contract.

Well, read what ABD had to say about the IPL, it may change your mind.
 
Have you read ABD's comments on the IPL? Believe me, if he was forced by his board to choose between the SA team and IPL, he would choose IPL in a heartbeat.

ABD is on the verge of retiring how many years do you think he is going to play 2,3 at most then what???
 
ABD is on the verge of retiring how many years do you think he is going to play 2,3 at most then what???

I am talking about the choice ABD would have made ten years ago based on what he has said about the IPL and the bureaucrats who run boards.
 
Well, read what ABD had to say about the IPL, it may change your mind.

If his comments were serious and not vague then I'm sure they would have made the news on top cricket sites like ESPN Cricinfo and I would have read them. I don't have enough time to go searching the web about some vague comment he might have made that only some local Indian news channel heard. And regardless of what he said, the central contract he signed for his employer Cricket South Africa says otherwise.
 
If his comments were serious and not vague then I'm sure they would have made the news on top cricket sites like ESPN Cricinfo and I would have read them. I don't have enough time to go searching the web about some vague comment he might have made that only some local Indian news channel heard. And regardless of what he said, the central contract he signed for his employer Cricket South Africa says otherwise.

Why don't you post that contract then? You won't accept documented interviews because you personally didn't come across it when you were browsing Cricinfo, but others are expected to take for granted your knowledge of a confidential employment contract?
 
OP asks: Without India, what could cricket afford?

A picture is worth a thousand words.bp24.jpg
 
Just love the audacity of the new distribution which cuts India's share to half, leaves England and Australia's share unchanged, and spends $100+ million building new offices in England.

I suppose after a couple of centuries of bleeding India dry, the English want to grab whatever Indian money they now can. Sorry guys, the colonial days are long past.

We've already been through both the fact that the ECB will receive a cut to their ICC funding under the new model and the small extension the ICC are building to house their own employees that will benefit the ECB in next to no way at all in another thread (and where you're pulling the $100mn+ value from I have no idea given the original building that the extension is/has been built on cost a fraction of that itself.
 
where you're pulling the $100mn+ value from I have no idea given the original building that the extension is/has been built on cost a fraction of that itself.

ICC wants $160 million for its "administrative expenses", which India believes can be done for much much less.
 
Why don't you post that contract then? You won't accept documented interviews because you personally didn't come across it when you were browsing Cricinfo, but others are expected to take for granted your knowledge of a confidential employment contract?

Then why doesn't he post the link of that interview instead of expecting that these comments appear on the front page of my newspaper? It's far easier than posting written, confidential documentation. I know for a fact that the ECB and PCB central contracts clearly state that national duty eclipses a player's participation in any other cricketing event so I quite certain the rules are similar for CSA.
 
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To be very honest Shashank Manohar (who was part of one power center at BCCI) now the ICC chief has an axe to grind. No great altruistic or cricket growing notion there. Honestly the financial power house is India and the others contribute to the content and hence get a piece of that pie. So how India rolls is how the table will be set. No matter what the smaller fish want or talk. The first to blink will always be the one who has a lot more to lose.

Test cricket is almost dead, just a matter of time before people realize that spending 5 days of their life for a game to end is a stupid waste of time. Sport is almost always for displaying skill, pitting competition and providing entertainment. The game has to evolve to the shorter forms of the game being the dominant part.

Hopefully as the product is introduced (as in any product life cycle) there are one or two players -- IPL/Big Bash....as the product grows you have lots of competitors (BBL, CSA, PSL etc). However as the product matures there is consolidation and the market returns from a competitive market to a oligopoly or a monopoly. So at the end of the day you will be left with IPL and Big Bash with all rest mostly becoming regional tournaments.

Further, as cricket becomes a professional sport with individuals looking for earnings, rather than playing for national pride (which should be relgated to four year once like soccer does) ...the shake out will be complete.

In summary, the opera ends only when the fat lady sings and that happens to be India.
 
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