Would a stronger side have gone for a win in this innings?

[Slog]

Pakistan since ball one of this is innings is going for a draw.

The pitch has no demons let’s be honest. It’s as good a wicket for day 5 you are gonna come across. But obviously we have been so far behind that even a draw would be a huge moral victory. And clearly the team management doesn’t have confidence in own ability to go for a win.

However if you look at the facts (of the pitch and conditions) and the game situation; a draw isn’t the only positive result for us which was a possibility.

To begin with, we had 38 overs to face yesterday. If we had gone at 3 runs per over (very very achievable. Not at all hard to target) then we would have ended up at 114 for the day.

And then today there would have been less than 260 to chase on the final day. Again a run rate of 3 runs per over across the day would have been more than enough to chase it down.

So would a more competent team like Australia, India or even our opposition New Zealand have gone For the win.

One of the things which should really pinch our cricketers self respect should be the fact that New Zealand felt that a target of 373 on this pitch was more than enough. No way against a top team would they have declared so early.

 

[Mueez]

England/Australia/South Africa/India would chase this total.

Not sure about other teams...

 

[Slog]

England/Australia/South Africa/India would chase this total.

Not sure about other teams...

Yea that along with NZ are all the stronger sides lol. Test cricket is essentially 8 teams haha.

 

[Mamoon]

They would have gone but failed. No one can chase 373 in NZ against this attack.

 

[Mamoon]

England/Australia/South Africa/India would chase this total.

Not sure about other teams...

None of those teams would have chased it successfully, but none of those teams would be dumb enough to bowl first on a batting surface.

 

[Mueez]

Yea that along with NZ are all the stronger sides lol. Test cricket is essentially 8 teams haha.

Haha true that.

 

[Mueez]

None of those teams would have chased it successfully, but none of those teams would be dumb enough to bowl first on a batting surface.

Indeed however if I have to choose one team which I’m 100% sure is capable of pulling off this heist: it is England.

 

[Slog]

They would have gone but failed. No one can chase 373 in NZ against this attack.

I feel NZ would have set a target of over 400+ for those teams too tho just to be on safe side.

 

[Mamoon]

Indeed however if I have to choose one team which I’m 100% sure is capable of pulling off this heist: it is England.

England is the best chasing side in Test cricket. They can pull off anything with their lower-order and tail led by the legendary Stokes. However, it would be extremely tough to do it in New Zealand.

 

[Buffet]

England/Australia/South Africa/India would chase this total.

Not sure about other teams...

Not sure about chasing it successfully, but some other teams would have tried.

But having said that NZ won't give a 370 run target with so many overs left to a good batting side on such a flat pitch. Just normal rate of batting will get to 370 if you can bat for a long time.

 

[lahoriyah1234]

Thanks to Rizwan and Fahim it went to 5th day, otherwise it should have been a closed chapter on 4th day. We have no chance, il be shocked if we can draw this. I will tell my nephew’s that Santa Claus is real.

 

[Mueez]

England is the best chasing side in Test cricket. They can pull off anything with their lower-order and tail led by the legendary Stokes. However, it would be extremely tough to do it in New Zealand.

Fully agree with you. This is one of the best bowling lineup which NZ have ever had if not the best.

 

[Mueez]

Not sure about chasing it successfully, but some other teams would have tried.

But having said that NZ won't give a 370 run target with so many overs left to a good batting side on such a flat pitch. Just normal rate of batting will get to 370 if you can bat for a long time.

Valid point made by you. NZ won’t give a tougher team a target of 370.

 

[Hyperion66]

England/Australia/South Africa/India would chase this total.

Not sure about other teams...

Lol, no team can chase 373 in the 4th innings against such a strong attack.

 

[Buffet]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...aland-vs-india-2nd-test-667653/full-scorecard

NZ was not feeling safe to give a target of 400 runs even on the last day with less than 90 overs left due to the flat pitch. They set a target of 435 in 60-70 overs and so. Mac was done with his triple much earlier.

 

[Hyperion66]

England/Australia/South Africa/India would chase this total.

Not sure about other teams...

We are the worst among top teams when it comes to chasing totals in the 4th innings in a SENA country.

 

[Slog]

We are the worst among top teams when it comes to chasing totals in the 4th innings in a SENA country.

You may be. But the point is thag due to overall strength of the side, NZ wouldn’t have given a target of 373 in case there’s a freak performance

 

[Deewana Mastana]

England would have batted slow in the first session keeping the wickets intact and look to get around 70 in the session meanwhile, in the last two going hard and looking for a win.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I stopped reading after you said that the pitch doesnt have any demons. I was sitting right there and during the lunch break, I even went close up to the pitch to inspect it. There were some major cracks in the pitch and even when I spoke to Neil Wagner, he mentioned that there were a couple of cracks that he was looking to exploit.

Other than the cracks, there is certainly variable bounce which makes medium pace bowlers like Jamieson look express. Adding to that, Pakistan has also had the misfortune of batting in overcast conditions on Day 3. Hopefully the sun stays our today so the ball swings relatively less but we all saw how well Boult was swinging it yesterday.

This pitch is as tough a pitch as they come. Fawad Alam has his name written on Santners ball. Believe me when I say this, if Alam is able to see off Santer, he will have played an absolute blinder.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Highest 4th innings score in NZ by a visiting team was 366 by India back in 2014 and that was unsuccessful

 

[Slog]

I stopped reading after you said that the pitch doesnt have any demons. I was sitting right there and during the lunch break, I even went close up to the pitch to inspect it. There were some major cracks in the pitch and even when I spoke to Neil Wagner, he mentioned that there were a couple of cracks that he was looking to exploit.... This pitch is as tough a pitch as they come. Fawad Alam has his name written on Santners ball.

Well you also said this yesterday:

This pitch is as flat as they come. All bowlers aside from Naseem have bowled well.

Now I know a pitch deteriorates over days in cricket but I have played enough cricket in my lifetime on Pakistani wickets (which beak up much more quickly than a NZ wicket) to know that it won’t happen that quickly in 3-4 hours. You literally have to grab a shovel and smash the pitch for it to turn from as “flat as they come” to “as tough as they come”

So please stop changing your statements per convenience. We all have a memory and can check post history.

 

[Slog]

England would have batted slow in the first session keeping the wickets intact and look to get around 70 in the session meanwhile, in the last two going hard and looking for a win.

Probably best strategy. If you can get to last 2 session with 7+ wickets then you can def go for it and see how second session goes.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I stopped reading after you said that the pitch doesnt have any demons. I was sitting right there and during the lunch break, I even went close up to the pitch to inspect it. There were some major cracks in the pitch and even when I spoke to Neil Wagner, he mentioned that there were a couple of cracks that he was looking to exploit.

Other than the cracks, there is certainly variable bounce which makes medium pace bowlers like Jamieson look express. Adding to that, Pakistan has also had the misfortune of batting in overcast conditions on Day 3. Hopefully the sun stays our today so the ball swings relatively less but we all saw how well Boult was swinging it yesterday.

This pitch is as tough a pitch as they come. Fawad Alam has his name written on Santners ball. Believe me when I say this, if Alam is able to see off Santer, he will have played an absolute blinder.

Then why has Wagner or any of the other bowlers not found any success yet exploiting those cracks? This is a placid pitch.

 

[Slog]

Then why has Wagner or any of the other bowlers not found any success yet exploiting those cracks? This is a placid pitch.

Lol less than 24 hours ago (so 4-5 hours of playing time ago ) he said “this is a pitch as flat as they come”

 

[shamaan]

Lol less than 24 hours ago (so 4-5 hours of playing time ago ) he said “this is a pitch as flat as they come”

It was a flat pitch thiers abit of turn but not to much

 

[waleed88]

Well since as a batting side you lost all hope of winning the test match after you were 3 down for nothing. Which practically means you have lost all hope of saving the match

 

[Suleiman]

It’s not in line with the current batting culture.

You have timid men like Azhar, Fawad, Shan, Haris and whoever else batting for their place. No way in hell would they try to even attempt to chase something like this.

But in the case of Azhar, Shan and Fawad, they don’t even have the skill level to chase 370+ against this attack.

 

[Suleiman]

None of those teams would have chased it successfully, but none of those teams would be dumb enough to bowl first on a batting surface.

To be fair, after the toss, Williamson did say he would’ve bowled first if he had won the toss as well.

 

[shamaan]

To be fair, after the toss, Williamson did say he would’ve bowled first if he had won the toss as well.

of course you bowl first thiers always something in the wicket on the first day its a shame we dropped a few catches

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

This is where you need a 20 year old Afridi to come out and pound out 150 quick runs.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Faheem to live up to the hype in the other thread and score 80 off 50 to bring it home. after Fawad’s 100 and Rizwan 70.

Let the comparison with Stokes and Headingly begin

 

[Slog]

Faheem to live up to the hype in the other thread and score 80 off 50 to bring it home. after Fawad’s 100 and Rizwan 70.

Let the comparison with Stokes and Headingly begin

Lol if he manages to win us this then comparison with Stokes would be well earned

 

[Slog]

Mark Richardson saying Pakistan can def go for win

 

[pratiktc]

NZ have enough confidence on their attack to defend this score against any team

Pak have done a great job by even making draw possible after horror start by openers. They will still likely lose but great effort. Can't fault the middle order batsman for approach

 

[wrongun]

England/Australia/South Africa/India would chase this total.

Not sure about other teams...

I've seen all those teams not even consider chasing similar totals if they lose a few wickets. All really depends on the platform the top 3 set up. Pakistan had the worst of all possible starts. No team chases from there.

It will be a miracle if they even hang on.

 

[Ab Fan]

New Zealand wickets aren't as tough on Day 4 and 5 and teams back themselves to chase 300-350. However, a 4th inning successful chase or draw in the process to bat for four sessions is always a tremendous achievement.

 

[pillionrider]

Highly unlikely. India I'm sure would have been bowled out earlier than Pak.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Most sides would not have been able to chase this, it was a perfectly timed declaration by Williamson. Any team playing with extra aggression would have been bowled out earlier. It's not the same conditions as batting against a white kookaburra.

 

[naseem]

Nah ....not many teams have chased it...but surely Saffas england and India might have drawn this

 

[naseem]

We should remember this is a one in a generation pace attack......and each one is different from other.....
After the inclusion of Jamienson this attack has become deadlier

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Only a fool would go for a win chasing 360+ on the final day. Virat Kohli was one for trying that in 2014.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Nah ....not many teams have chased it...but surely Saffas england and India might have drawn this

South Africa yes but definitely not any other team.

 

[naseem]

South Africa yes but definitely not any other team.

I guess england won or drawn here ....it was a high scoring game.......albeit Jamienson was not there

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

None of those teams would have chased it successfully, but none of those teams would be dumb enough to bowl first on a batting surface.

Agree with the chasing part, but as to the second, Captain Kohli + egomaniac Shastri are quite capable of taking the wont decisions easily.

 

[Savak]

Maybe Pakistan going into a defensive shell backfired and allowed the NZ bowlers to get into rhythm, when we were attacking the bowlers, they wavered with their line and length

 

[James Steven]

NZ would not have allowed a stronger team to chase 371 in one and a half day. It shows that they do not respect Pakistan at all.

 

[Slog]

NZ would not have allowed a stronger team to chase 371 in one and a half day. It shows that they do not respect Pakistan at all.

Well that blew up in their faces because this is the furthest a test match has been taken in New Zealand for a while. Big change from the last Asian side which got rolled over in 3 days each time

 

[Ab Fan]

NZ are no.1 ranked test team now.

 

[James Steven]

Well that blew up in their faces because this is the furthest a test match has been taken in New Zealand for a while. Big change from the last Asian side which got rolled over in 3 days each time

Yeah, they can make mistakes too. Remember in WC final, Williamson forget that he bowled out all his main bowlers and he had to resort to Neesham for the penultimate over which almost paid off.

 

[happydavy]

No chance, no side would have won this match chasing 371. Best case was draw and the most probable case was a loss. In the last 20 years, only 2 teams could have tried chasing 371 in a foreign country - Australia under Ponting and SA under smith, rest won't even have tried.

 

[DeadBall]

Lol less than 24 hours ago (so 4-5 hours of playing time ago ) he said “this is a pitch as flat as they come”

He was there and even went up to the pitch to examine it firsthand, not to mention talking to Wagner and you just stayed home watching a totally docile pitch like the rest of us fools, so just shut it.

 

[Slog]

He was there and even went up to the pitch to examine it firsthand, not to mention talking to Wagner and you just stayed home watching a totally docile pitch like the rest of us fools, so just shut it.

I wonder which player told him that this pitch was “as flat as they come”

 

[Smbhayi]

How many times 300+ scores chased down in tests? It's very rare..

 

[Mesozoic]

No team would go for a win chasing 370+ in 4 sessions unless they're like 100 short of it with a session to and atleast 7 wickets in hand.

 

[shamaan]

No team would have chased that done pakistan did well to take it to the last 5 overs great effort

 

[shamaan]

NZ would not have allowed a stronger team to chase 371 in one and a half day. It shows that they do not respect Pakistan at all.

if they had to win they would set similar total no matter who it is

 

[Kroll]

What I think normally happens is that if there's enough overs left to go for a win, most teams would first play it safe without the intent to go for win form the outset.

Then obviously if they have the wickets and overs to attempt the chase after consolidating, then they will. It will also depend on the series outcome.

Is there anything left to play for? Does the team chasing need to win to save the series or win? etc.

 

[Energy]

A stronger team with 6 wickets in hand in the final session with two set batsmen would have drawn the game.

The new ball was blunted, milestones reached. Despite this our batsmen found strange ways of getting bogged down.

 

[Hasan123]

No because New Zealand have a strong bowling attack and chasing over 300 in that amount of time is very difficult.