Would Imran Khan have been an equally successful captain without the legendary talented players?

[Savak]

I have heard this too many times that IK is an over rated captain, Misbah is much better, Imran Khan had the services of the once in a generation legendary talents like Miandad, Wasim, Waqar, Inzamam and co which is why he won most of his games that he did whereas Misbah did not have the same quality of talent at his disposal.

I find this rubbish to be honest because Imran even during the early parts of his captaincy won games with people with Tahir Naqqash, Jallaludin, Haroon Rashid. He had the services of players like Abdul Qadir, Mudassar Nazar, Mohsin Khan, Saleem Jaffar, Ramiz Raja but i mean cmon now were these guys really world beaters.

The 1992 WC winning team had lost their main match winners in Waqar and Saeed Anwar. Inzamam was a complete rookie, a gamble, Aamir Sohail to was a rookie. Salim Malik was a passenger in this tournament, Wasim only came late to the party in the final and in one group game but went missing for the rest of the tournament.

I believe Imran Khan had the leadership qualities and the motivating skills to get the best out of a weak lot as well. If he was captain of the present bunch, he would definately not put up with the timid brand of cricket that most players play.

But it would be interesting to see how the likes of Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Hafeez, Azhar Ali, Shafiq, Babar Azam, Junaid Khan, Mohd Amir, Hassan Ali, Shadab Khan, Fahim Ashraf would have coped under his leadership vis a vis Misbah. I can guarantee you that Khan would immediately identify the serious match winners, game changers in this list and would go over drive in terms of figuring out how to get the best out of them, how to make them better players, to give a full fledged danda to someone not pulling their weight. We already saw a glimpse when he demanded that Umar Akmal be made to bat at No 3 in his only interaction with the team.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

He brought out the best in his players.Danda tha players pe.

 

[PakLFC]

Of course not. Take out the likes of Javed, Zaheer, Wasim, Waqar and the rest who played under IK and Pak would never had been half of successful. The question should be is were these players in the team because of IK. Yes, many were.

 

[Savak]

Of course not. Take out the likes of Javed, Zaheer, Wasim, Waqar and the rest who played under IK and Pak would never had been half of successful. The question should be is were these players in the team because of IK. Yes, many were.

Wasim did not really deliver any serious match winning performances under Imran's leadership prior the 1992 WC. Waqar only came to the party from 1990 onwards and Miandad was the captain for one of the series. Zaheer was on his last legs and IK was out of cricket from 1983 to 1985 and when IK came back, Zaheer Abbas retired immediately after wards. Besides Misbah had the services of Younis which is more or less equal to Imran having Miandad's services. He then had Azhar Ali which is equal to Imran having Salim Malik's services.

 

[zyrus]

Two things.

1. That era was an immature one. Where batsmen used to 'fear' bowlers based on their pace or other things. Both bowlers abd batsmen used to make loads of mistakes back then. A one-dimensional attacking captain was perfect for that time. Doesnt mean that he was a great one.

2. The myth of Imran Spotting talent, you need to realize the mindset of our nation back then. We had 'junoon' of cricket back then. Everybody wished to be like their superstars. Each street must be filled with domestic grade players. Spotting world-class players wasn't an issue at that time. The same Imran Khan wont be able to find those talents anymore. Cricket is slowly fading away from the hearts of youth. There's no major tournament victory to change things. What Misbah did, was probably among the best/consistent efforts I've ever seen in sports arena. Not only he had to fight the mindset but also he had to find couple of world class players within such people. He had his flaws, he was over defensive at times. But he did that huge task of finding teams strengths and sticking to them for long enough.

 

[moghul]

He would make some of the current players the world beaters.

 

[Savak]

Two things.

1. That era was an immature one. Where batsmen used to 'fear' bowlers based on their pace or other things. Both bowlers abd batsmen used to make loads of mistakes back then. A one-dimensional attacking captain was perfect for that time. Doesnt mean that he was a great one.

2. The myth of Imran Spotting talent, you need to realize the mindset of our nation back then. We had 'junoon' of cricket back then. Everybody wished to be like their superstars. Each street must be filled with domestic grade players. Spotting world-class players wasn't an issue at that time. The same Imran Khan wont be able to find those talents anymore. Cricket is slowly fading away from the hearts of youth. There's no major tournament victory to change things. What Misbah did, was probably among the best/consistent efforts I've ever seen in sports arena. Not only he had to fight the mindset but also he had to find couple of world class players within such people. He had his flaws, he was over defensive at times. But he did that huge task of finding teams strengths and sticking to them for long enough.

This point is moot. Cricket is still the main sport in Pakistan. The problem with pursuing Cricket as a career now especially in the last 10-15 years especially due to the global recession and the recession in Pakistan Cricket due to the war on terror, absence of international teams coming to Pakistan is that the PCB has been unable to pump major injections of funds into domestic cricket which means the wages of the players in domestic cricket have stagnated let alone caught up. If you don't make it the national side then there is no point struggling in domestic cricket because you will have to spend out of your own pockets to maintain your domestic career now which was not necessarily the case in the past and besides these youngsters have other options to earn now like driving taxi's, buying a rickshaw, working in factories, in a mechanic store, opening a general store where in some cases the payoff is higher as compared to struggling and toiling pointlessly in domestic cricket. That has been the biggest difference.

 

[Billy1999]

Well you can take it both ways he had good players but he also was given batsmen that after 20 tests averaged about 23 he had some good players and some bad players,Immi was happy that he found Ramiz as an opener(probably the worst opener ever) imagine what calibre of players he had to deal with and about Wasim and Waqar if there was no Imran there was no Akram or Waqar he made Wasim into the player he was he made Waqar into a great player remember Imran played till 92 which was the peak year of both Wasim and Waqar.offcourse he was lucky to have Zed and Miandad as well as Qadir but even without them he still would have found a way out.

 

[Mamoon]

As much as we like to believe that he had a magic wand, he would not have been able to turn Rahat and Wahab and Junaid etc. into Wasim and Waqar.

 

[Slog]

As much as we like to believe that he had a magic wand, he would not have been able to turn Rahat and Wahab and Junaid etc. into Wasim and Waqar.

His legacy wasn't made with Waqar anyway

It was made with Sarfaraz, Wasim etc

 

[AZulfi]

Misbah did a commendable job as test captain but he was a defensive captain albeit an able one. Imran and Miandad were all attacking captains and better than Misbah imo.

However I don't rate Misbah as an ODI captain. I principally blame him for the pathetic way we approach batting in ODIs these days. When I look around I see all other teams incl. Bangladesh batting with a flair that is glaringly missing from our top batsmen. Yes it is not all Misbah's fault but there is not a single exciting batsman in the present team, not a single big hitter either. This pathetic timid go-slow batting style needs to be shelved for good. All we are producing is dot ball specialists (Shehzad and Hafeez the main culprits). Even BD's batsmen were quite innovative against England the other day.

And when we say that Misbah did this and that with a mediocre set of players we must also not forget that he was largely up against mediocre test teams during his time barring South Africa and England & India to a certain extent. Agreed it is definitely not the same as playing at home but UAE pitches are not very dissimilar to subcontinental pitches. Even so Misbah's record as captain outside his comfort zone (UAE) is not that good. 0-3 in South Africa, 0-3 in Australia (agreed we have traditionally struggled down under, so he's not alone), 0-1 in NZ (Misbah missed the 2nd test), even struggled to beat Windies B team 2-1 recently. the 2-2 in England was a commendable achievement for sure. Yes Pak beat England 3-0 and Australia 2-0 in UAE but the current Australian test team also lost 0-4 in India and 0-3 in Sri Lanka. They are clueless on spinning tracks.

Misbah won 26 tests but he also lost a whopping 19 as captain. Win/loss ratio is a much more relevant stat. Imran and Miandad played against much better teams, arguably the greatest team in cricket's entire history (Windies) and the best Indian batting line-up in my book. Even so both Miandad and Imran's W/L ratio is better than Misbah's. Give both Imran and Miandad these same mediocre Pak players, these same average to above average opposition teams and 40 odd tests as captain in UAE and then see what they can achieve.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283746.html

Imran Khan was the first Pakistan captain to win a test series in England and India (and with home umpires, certainly no mean feat!) and he achieved both in the same year, 1987.

The only cricket captain of his era who remained undefeated against the best team of his time in tests, the mighty West Indies. Led Pakistan in three series against the Windies, all of them drawn 1-1

And it is a myth that Imran had all great players in his XI. Apart from himself, Miandad, Akram and Qadir, the rest were nothing special. Incredibly Imran's best performances as test captain came after his return from injury in 1986 and there was no Majid (retired 1983), Zaheer (retired 1985), Wasim Raja (retired 1985) or Waqar Younis (Test debut 1989) then.

The 3-0 win against India in 1983 was special (Imran took 40 wickets in 6 tests at an incredible bowling average of 13!) but it was a home series.

Waqar Younis and Saeed Anwar arrived on the scene much late when IK was in his twilight years. Both did not play many tests under Imran's captaincy

 

[Mamoon]

His legacy wasn't made with Waqar anyway

It was made with Sarfaraz, Wasim etc

Yes but leaving a top team is part of his legacy, and that is where people like Waqar, Inzamam and Saeed etc. come into play. Actually, Sarfraz played a big role in Imran's success and he was the one who introduced reverse-swing first.

Imran was miles better than Misbah, but he may not have necessarily scaled the same heights in this era. He had the luxury of having access to better raw talent, but he was much better at identifying it compared to Misbah, who wasn't a visionary captain.

Being an elite player helps as well, which Misbah wasn't either.

 

[Billy1999]

If only Imran could captain Amir,Hassan Ali,Junaid,Babar Azam,Shadab,Azhar Ali,Shehzad,Imad
He would make them into great players that would destroy all top batsmen and be backed to dominate all top bowling attacks.Misbah was one of the worst captains if we look into it he has destroyed many careers of young batsmen shall I name a few
Nasir jamshed (Had an average of 45+ and a SR of 80+ after his first 25 matches Misbah played his part in his downfall)
Umar Akmal(didn't back him one bit played him at no 6 and ultimately Umar failed)
Ahmed Shehzad (This guy looked like serious talent when he first came again Misbah didn't back him and taught him tuck tuck cricket and know he is lost as a batsmen)
Azhar Ali (turned him into tuck tuck although Azhar is a great player he learnt a lot from younis)
Umar Amin (He played him at No7 against India at the champions trophy and he looked in good touch
Misbah played all his friends which wasn't that bad at the time but know Pakistan cricket is suffering because of it because no talent was found all the talent has been found after Misbah left Babar,Hassan,Imad,Shadab

 

[Slog]

Yes but leaving a top team is part of his legacy, and that is where people like Waqar, Inzamam and Saeed etc. come into play. Actually, Sarfraz played a big role in Imran's success and he was the one who introduced reverse-swing first.

Imran was miles better than Misbah, but he may not have necessarily scaled the same heights in this era. He had the luxury of having access to better raw talent, but he was much better at identifying it compared to Misbah, who wasn't a visionary captain.

Being an elite player helps as well, which Misbah wasn't either.

Also the gulf between pak players and test of the world in terms of fitness and fielding wasn't as wide back then as it is now.

Cricket (or sports in general) wasn't as intense back then and the fitness standards, intensity etc was lax relatively.

So Pakistani boys weren't well behind the curve. I

 

[Muhammad10]

Same question can be asked about other great captains like Smith, Waugh, etc. At the end of the day, if your captain is easily the greatest player in your team, (like Khan was, particularly in the biggest games) it's not very clever to accuse him of being reliant on other great players for his success as a leader.

 

[Hasan123]

Imran is Pakistan's best ever captain. You have to remember he gave young players a chance and was good st spotting talent.

He still would have done a good job without those legendary players.

But OPs question can be asked about many great captains.

 

[CricFan2012]

Imran is Pakistan's best ever captain. You have to remember he gave young players a chance and was good st spotting talent.

He still would have done a good job without those legendary players.

But OPs question can be asked about many great captains.

This.

Imran knew cricket inside out. He had experience in the domestic scene in England early on which aided him in becoming a more professional player and captain.

He is without a doubt, the best captain to come out of Asia. Way better than Misbah too, who's character I respect, but he's overrated as he was helped by 2 chuckers who won him series after series mainly due to their bowling.

 

[yasir]

Yes but leaving a top team is part of his legacy, and that is where people like Waqar, Inzamam and Saeed etc. come into play. Actually, Sarfraz played a big role in Imran's success and he was the one who introduced reverse-swing first.

Imran was miles better than Misbah, but he may not have necessarily scaled the same heights in this era. He had the luxury of having access to better raw talent, but he was much better at identifying it compared to Misbah, who wasn't a visionary captain.

Being an elite player helps as well, which Misbah wasn't either.

In the development of Wasim, War, Qadir, Mushi, Aqib, Inzi, Anwar lot of credit goes to Imran. He made many of these players. Qadir was used as attacking option, not many used leg spinner as attacking option back then, he was wavered yet Imran believed in wicket taking bowlers. That was the case with Waqar, who was rejected by his home FC team as having no control, pace is not everything. Imran did not gave him new ball for first few years, that helped him control the ball and focus on reverse swing, he did not let him loose his pace, rather double down on both Wasim and Waqar to focus on pace. In 1992 WC, Wasim bowled many wides and no balls, Imran did not mind as long as he was running hard and try to bowl fast, he wanted wickets not line and length control.

Now look at modern era, M Sami and Wahab are very fit to bowl 145 clicks for 10-15 years, yet never developed to be world class bowler, forget about world class they cannot hold a spot in national team, where nobody else in this time frame can bowl 145 clicks. Ability to bowl 145 clicks is exceptional skill, if you can do that at age of 35, that's even more impressive, Sami has been bowling at that pace for 15 years, its a shame he could not developed as a quality bowler, which was much more easier task. That's where somebody like Khan would have helped a lot.

You have to keep in mind, not just Pakistan but Asia never had a fast bowler before Imran Khan, Fazal, Sarfraz, Kapil etc were medium pacer most if not all of their lives, Imran was the first genuine fast bowler from Asia. It took Imran 8 years to transform from medium pacer to fast bowler, in the process he lost his back and was out of cricket for 2 years at his peak.

Pakistan not producing fast bowler is not something new, we never had before Imran Khan, and start loosing them 2 decade since he retire. He gets lot of credit of creating culture of fast bowling in the country.

If you look at Captain like Misbah, he uses fast bowlers like medium pacers, his instructions are defensive lengths, control run rate, He has done that to pretty much every bowler under him, lengths of bowler from ball one is damming under Misbah. I remember in AUS third test, Warner hit two boundaries, first day, first session, second over and he took out slip and went very defensive. That was outrageous stuff from him, we are witnessing that for 50 test, he as no clue how to use and nurture fast bowler. They are debuting under him at the age of 30-34, who in the world does that??

In ODIs, Imran was firm believer of playing with 5 bowlers, no bits and pieces player, even in late 90s, whenever he used to come for commentary, he never liked playing two allrounders. His field placement even in ODIs were attacking all the time. At that time Pakistan were leading the modern trend(reverse swing, using spinners as wicket takers-Qadir, Mushi, Saqi). Forget about talent, we are lagging a whole lot in fundamental strategy under Misbah, we have gone back to 1970s style of defensive cricket. They did not learn anything from England resurgent and how game has changed because of T20, ENG not only fire all test cricketers from LOI, they removed them from any LOI development strategy. Cook, Anderson no longer take part in the development of LOI teams. Even when Mishab retires, his figure prints are all over the LOI team, his favorites Azhar, Shafiq, Hafeez, Shezad keep popping up in LOIs despite repeated failure, management does not understand that these guys are not designed for LOI. This drum beat of senior first, never trust the young blood has made us lot more backward, its not about talent, its flawed strategy. These things makes Misbah legacy very tainted. He took Pakistan backward rather than moving forward, he was riding on putting up a nice and mature Captain show for rest of world to appreciate Pakistan, Internally we lost everything we had. It will take a decade for us to go back on track!!

When Imran lost 1988 SF in Lahore to AUS, then he realize how much WC means to the country, before that he was lot more focus on winning key Test Series, which he did for most part, winning in India and ENG for first time, 3 draw series with might WI, one of them we lost because of cheat Umpires, I think we draw a series in AUS as well. Imran was lot more determined and focus on winning WC in 1992 and somehow he delivered as well. And he left with us some legendary players for next decade. Those things made his legacy such a shinning star in our Cricket History!!

 

[super hitter]

Just go and ask Waseem and Inzi who Imran Khan the captain was; A miraculous leader...They'll say!

 

[yasir]

^ I can bet you Imran would not have let Amir bowled those terrible lengths he has been bowling in last year. Not to mention sacrificing pace to bowl 5-8 extra overs per day.

Misbah has Captained 55 test, Pakistan even become #1 team, I don't remember a single test when Pakistan bowled out opposition under 150 in first innings. Even if Wicket is greenish, we still take 100 overs to get opposition out, this has lot to do with Misbah's Captaincy then quality of bowlers alone. Misbah style does not allow team to go on attack. Even on green pitch, cloudy day he stops taking 3/4 slip out after 2 boundaries. Nobody in the history of Cricket would dare to call Misbah an aggressive, well anything, that is key part of his legacy

 

[daytrader]

As much as we like to believe that he had a magic wand, he would not have been able to turn Rahat and Wahab and Junaid etc. into Wasim and Waqar.

No he would've replaced them with actual talent

 

[zyrus]

This point is moot. Cricket is still the main sport in Pakistan. The problem with pursuing Cricket as a career now especially in the last 10-15 years especially due to the global recession and the recession in Pakistan Cricket due to the war on terror, absence of international teams coming to Pakistan is that the PCB has been unable to pump major injections of funds into domestic cricket which means the wages of the players in domestic cricket have stagnated let alone caught up. If you don't make it the national side then there is no point struggling in domestic cricket because you will have to spend out of your own pockets to maintain your domestic career now which was not necessarily the case in the past and besides these youngsters have other options to earn now like driving taxi's, buying a rickshaw, working in factories, in a mechanic store, opening a general store where in some cases the payoff is higher as compared to struggling and toiling pointlessly in domestic cricket. That has been the biggest difference.

It may still be among the main sports but the passion is seriously reduced these days. You will not find teens playing in streets, grounds, rooftops as much as they used to before. Absence of international cricket is one reason, while team not winning anything is another.

I don't think Wasim or Waqar were made in a domestic circuit, they were born with it. Domestic can only refine one's game. Like Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shahzad could have learnt alot there, but thats only a small bi-product of the who scenario. I would like to the the reaction of youth if Pakistan team ever managed to win 1-2 big trophies.

Btw, just Imagine Imran khan as a captain in such situations, along with the fact that reverse swing is reduced significantly with ball changes and all the other batting-friendly rules. Can see him being bunny of many batsmen.

 

[Mamoon]

No he would've replaced them with actual talent

He cannot replace them when the talent isn't there. We don't like to hear it, but the fact is that Wasim and Waqar type talents are not getting wasted on the streets. Imran was simply lucky that they weren't born a decade earlier or later, but yes, credit goes to him for harnessing their talent. He was one of the most visionary captains ever.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

All your points are valid, but again, we cannot equate the talent of players like Wasim, Waqar, Inzamam, Saeed etc. with Rahat, Junaid, Wahab, Shafiq, Shehzad etc. No matter how big a role Imran played in their development, their potential was far greater than these current players, and Imran would not have had the same legacy with them as he did with those players.

However, he was a much better tactician than Misbah and a much better player too, so he would have achieved more than Misbah across both formats. However, the question is that would he have achieved as much now as he did then? Most probably not.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Wasim / Waqar wouldnt have been that successful in current era.

Pakistan's cricket system and structure is poor. Countries progressed, Pakistan regressed. Talent alone isnt enough now.

 

[ugem]

Legendary? Kindly name one apart from Wasim (who was very raw then) and Javaid in the side. Fact remains that he picked bunch of rookie players like Aaqib, Inzimam, Mushtaq, Sohail and backed them and stood for them.

As for Wasim, he told him to bowl as fast as he can and not worry for the runs. It comes to mindset that he
instilled in the players on the top of great leadership. And that is the very reason he left us with a match winners that helped Pakistan winning for another decade. As soon that mindset and seeds gone, we ended up with timid approach of current generation and results are infront of everyone.

Misbah didn't left us with single match winning strike bowler, all-rounder or an opener.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Imran himself plus some other notable people said Amir was more talented than Wasim at the same age. What happened to him? How is his progress?

Asif was world class talent what happened to him?

Riaz Afridi was hailed as the next big thing and was even called better than Asif what happened to him?

Batting too Haris Sohail and Babar azam can become as good test/odi players as Inzi but we let them rot in domestic and continued with mediocre players like Shafiq / Shehzad..

The system is messed up. Talent might come but the medium to channel that talent is worse.

 

[KyoOne]

Misbah wasnt a very successful captain. Its a myth.

In tests, he did well in UAE against Australia and England, thats it. Far too many failures alongside as well, draws against wakening Lankan sides, drawn series against Kiwis at home, beyond horrible away record (a test loss to Zimbabwe even!). He was mediocre captain in ODIs, though okish in t20s till he lasted.

Imran was brilliant in recognising right players for the formats/conditions, good technically as captain, and above all, brought the best out of his young (and experienced) lot.

He would never have snubbed domestic run machine like Fawad Alam (played zero tests under Misbah) or top bowlers (Sadaf, Abbas, etc), or readily available class player in Yousuf (was sent home from squad in Misbah's first series as captain, was never considered by Misbah again). So many other horrific selection decisions Misbah made, and he created a brand that our cricket was never known for, in the process making most boring team among top 10. Left the ODI team in worst state in our history.

Imran, at the other end, was an expert in maximising the resources he had at his disposal

 

[captain crook]

All of this is under the assumption that Imran Khan is the most successful captain in the history of Pakistan. Can we please have stats comparing Misbah and Imran in tests please. Break up of home and away would also help. My gut feeling says Misbah hasn't done so scratchy either and both the Niazis have done equally well.

 

[thehub]

Imran for sure is the best Pakistani captain. Not sure why all pak fans overhyping him to the moon. His captaincy stats are nothing great. dhonie, ganguly, even mizbah have equally good or better records.

He has great batting and bowling stats. But I have seen second half of his career. He was nothing great at all. Had a good inswingers. He hardly bowled. When condition was tough for bowling he would let his bowlers to do the hard work. If you check the balls he bowled with other leading bowlers that time, he bowled way less. Same with batting. Lot of not outs. Scored most of those runs on flat tracks. Kapil with inferior stats played a lot more of great test and odi innings.

 

[TQ89]

No. He would have achieved more than misbah. But he could never achieve those victories which he did in the 80's/90's with the talent pool we have today. He wasn't a magician

 

[Savak]

No. He would have achieved more than misbah. But he could never achieve those victories which he did in the 80's/90's with the talent pool we have today. He wasn't a magician

If he can achieve wins with Jallaludin, Tahir Naqqash, Ehtishamuddin, with using Ijaz Ahmed as a bowler of all people then he can achieve wins with anyone really.

In fact you give Misbah Wasim, Waqar and co and he will still find ways to lose winable matches with them.

 

[Mamoon]

Just like how the fawning over Imran doesn't end after more than two decades, it seems like Pakistani fans will continue to bash Misbah for decades and decades to come. Is moving on from both a little too much to ask for?

 

[TQ89]

If he can achieve wins with Jallaludin, Tahir Naqqash, Ehtishamuddin, with using Ijaz Ahmed as a bowler of all people then he can achieve wins with anyone really.

In fact you give Misbah Wasim, Waqar and co and he will still find ways to lose winable matches with them.

That is just bias

 

[TQ89]

Just like how the fawning over Imran doesn't end after more than two decades, it seems like Pakistani fans will continue to bash Misbah for decades and decades to come. Is moving on from both a little too much to ask for?

Even the smartest of people lose their wits when it comes to Misbah. I don't expect it to end soon

 

[The_Odd_One]

As much as we like to believe that he had a magic wand, he would not have been able to turn Rahat and Wahab and Junaid etc. into Wasim and Waqar.

No entirely true. He got the best out of Aaqib and Mushtaq who will not even find a place in a B version of all time Pakistan ODI XI.

 

[Mamoon]

No entirely true. He got the best out of Aaqib and Mushtaq who will not even find a place in a B version of all time Pakistan ODI XI.

He got the best out of Aaqib, but he could not turn him into a Wasim or a Waqar, and that is my point. Imran had a great eye for talent but no one can polish a ****. You cannot ignore the natural ability factor, and Imran had the good fortune that he had the likes of Wasim and Waqar under his wing, and not Rahat, Wahab and Junaid etc.

Also, you are underrating Mushtaq. He isn't one of the greats, but he was very good. Far better than Yasir in overseas conditions.

 

[waleed88]

The tragedy is Imran had only 14 wins to show for a team full of talented cricketers... we were 2nd best even in that era to the great WI... even Miandad had a better games :victory ratio than him

 

[waleed88]

^ I can bet you Imran would not have let Amir bowled those terrible lengths he has been bowling in last year. Not to mention sacrificing pace to bowl 5-8 extra overs per day.

Misbah has Captained 55 test, Pakistan even become #1 team, I don't remember a single test when Pakistan bowled out opposition under 150 in first innings. Even if Wicket is greenish, we still take 100 overs to get opposition out, this has lot to do with Misbah's Captaincy then quality of bowlers alone. Misbah style does not allow team to go on attack. Even on green pitch, cloudy day he stops taking 3/4 slip out after 2 boundaries. Nobody in the history of Cricket would dare to call Misbah an aggressive, well anything, that is key part of his legacy

7:4 combination... please tell me any worthy allrounder that could bat for him in the lower order?

Imran had himself Wasim, and then a few others to bat..

Wasim had Azhar and Razzaq..

 

[waleed88]

Imran was also a more defensive captain than Misbah because he managed such few wins in a long career as a captain

 

[Haz95]

Imran was also a more defensive captain than Misbah because he managed such few wins in a long career as a captain

Imran only played against tougher opponents, unlike the King who had to play against Zimbabwe and not let youngsters come in for the easier opposition....What Imran did to the Windies of 80s is GOATesque, Misbah is simply out of his depth here.

Anyway on topic, I do think Imran can be just as succesful, for the simple reason of hand picking and nurturing talent. Had he been captain, Asif and Amir wouldn't have been fixing (I kno this is pre Misbah but still). Had he been captain, he'd have hand picked at least one more bowler (i.e. Hasan Ali) to nurture and ditto with a batsman. Had he been captain, Haris and Amin would've been regulars while Sohail Khan would've been picked in his prime post 2011

There was a lot less senior mentality. If the actual younger talents were picked when they were in their primes and developing stages, who knows how current Pakistan would've been.

 

[Savak]

The discussion is still valid

 

[Bilal7]

Why do people pose their opinion on a topic as a question in the title of a thread?

On topic - Of course, Imran wouldn't have been as successful without his best players. Which captain would? Misbah would have been sacked two or three series in if he did not have Ajmal and Younis and the same goes for any captain out there.

However, give each captain the same players and Imran would get the most out of them. He was more than a cricket captain, he was a leader. His political career, where he has inspired millions of Pakistanis, is further proof of his leadership skills.

Imran was arguably the best captain of all-time.

 

[Tusker]

Why do people pose their opinion on a topic as a question in the title of a thread?

On topic - Of course, Imran wouldn't have been as successful without his best players. Which captain would? Misbah would have been sacked two or three series in if he did not have Ajmal and Younis and the same goes for any captain out there.

However, give each captain the same players and Imran would get the most out of them. He was more than a cricket captain, he was a leader. His political career, where he has inspired millions of Pakistanis, is further proof of his leadership skills.

Imran was arguably the best captain of all-time.

That would be MS Dhoni ... without luxury of ATG bowlers won far more than Imran.

Here is the link to the same discussion we had few weeks ago:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Tendulkar-or-Imran-Khan&p=9491824#post9491824

 

[Bilal7]

That would be MS Dhoni ... without luxury of ATG bowlers won far more than Imran.

Here is the link to the same discussion we had few weeks ago:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Tendulkar-or-Imran-Khan&p=9491824#post9491824

Once again, you display a very weak comprehension ability. It is not simply about ATG bowlers but a captain's best players. Every captain would find it tougher if his best players were taken away, and Dhoni is no different.

 

[Robert]

Until Waqar turned up, IK didn't have a particularly strong side. He had an excellent fast bowler in himself, an excellent batter in Miandad and a few good bowlers in Sarfraz, the young Wasim and Qadir.

Neither was he tactically all that good. His strength was picking men with the right temperamant - not necessarily the most skilled ones - and motivating them while keeping them calm on the field.

 

[Buffet]

Why is this even a question?

Every captain will find it easier to do the job with better players.

 

[Buffet]

Fleming would have done wonders if he had better team, but he is still a better captain than IK for me. Being success is not just about being a great captain. It's also about what resources you have at your disposals.

 

[Buffet]

That would be MS Dhoni ... without luxury of ATG bowlers won far more than Imran.

Here is the link to the same discussion we had few weeks ago:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Tendulkar-or-Imran-Khan&p=9491824#post9491824

Dhoni would have also done better with better resource. Every captain would have done better with better players. Not sure why it's even getting debated. I don't want to get into comparing Dhoni and IK here, but disputing that a captain will do better with better players, seems illogical to me.

 

[Tusker]

Once again, you display a very weak comprehension ability. It is not simply about ATG bowlers but a captain's best players. Every captain would find it tougher if his best players were taken away, and Dhoni is no different.

Once again your ability to try and shift goal posts and ignore contexts is so predictable.

So are you now going to argue the opposite of what you did a few weeks ago (that bowlers win matches ) ? And before you try to get clever ATG Bowlers by definition should help tremendously in winning more matches thereby making the captain more successful which is what the premise of this thread is.

Until Waqar turned up, IK didn't have a particularly strong side. He had an excellent fast bowler in himself, an excellent batter in Miandad and a few good bowlers in Sarfraz, the young Wasim and Qadir.

Neither was he tactically all that good. His strength was picking men with the right temperamant - not necessarily the most skilled ones - and motivating them while keeping them calm on the field.

Wasim played for 5-6 years with Imran Qadir played a bit more. Waqar was the only one that played the least.

 

[Tusker]

Dhoni would have also done better with better resource.

MSD achieved more than Imran even without the luxury of those resources. Not sure what your take is on this topic but it is hard for some people to accept this therefore they try to find unique reasons to run down MSD.

Every captain would have done better with better players. Not sure why it's even getting debated. I don't want to get into comparing Dhoni and IK here, but disputing that a captain will do better with better players, seems illogical to me.

Not disputing that at all. But just shining the light on the hypocrisy when it comes to MSD vs IK. It is sacrilegious here to rate MSD higher than Imran even when it is clear that he got the most out of very poor modest fast bowling resources.

 

[Bilal7]

Once again your ability to try and shift goal posts and ignore contexts is so predictable.

So are you now going to argue the opposite of what you did a few weeks ago (that bowlers win matches ) ? And before you try to get clever ATG Bowlers by definition should help tremendously in winning more matches thereby making the captain more successful which is what the premise of this thread is.




Wasim played for 5-6 years with Imran Qadir played a bit more. Waqar was the only one that played the least.

These are two different threads with two different conclusions. Let me help you:

1) Bowlers are bigger match-winners in tests than batsmen.
2) Every captain would do worse without the services of his best players.

Arguing against either of these facts is idiotic. As for Imran vs Dhoni, Imran is the far better captain. Dhoni is not even the best captain in Indian history, he's a far way off being compared to someone like Imran.

 

[The_Odd_One]

In 1992, aside from Miandad and Akram, no player was even world class. Yet, he still won the world cup with just 3 bowlers Akram, Aaqib, and Mushtaq.

 

[The_Odd_One]

MSD achieved more than Imran even without the luxury of those resources. Not sure what your take is on this topic but it is hard for some people to accept this therefore they try to find unique reasons to run down MSD.




Not disputing that at all. But just shining the light on the hypocrisy when it comes to MSD vs IK. It is sacrilegious here to rate MSD higher than Imran even when it is clear that he got the most out of very poor modest fast bowling resources.

Batsmen win you games in ODIs and MSD has never captained a poor batting side.

 

[Tusker]

These are two different threads with two different conclusions. Let me help you:

1) Bowlers are bigger match-winners in tests than batsmen.
2) Every captain would do worse without the services of his best players.

Arguing against either of these facts is idiotic. As for Imran vs Dhoni, Imran is the far better captain. Dhoni is not even the best captain in Indian history, he's a far way off being compared to someone like Imran.

MSD is better captain than Imran as the bowling resources available to him were nowhere as great as the ATG Bowlers that Imran had but he still won more Tests than Imran managed which is a exceptional achievement. So therefore there is no question about MSD being without the services of ATG bowlers (He never had one to begin with ). Pretending that his did not happen would be idiotic (per your own assesement).

Batsmen win you games in ODIs and MSD has never captained a poor batting side.

Iam speaking about both Tests and ODIs. And Bowlers can win you games in ODIs too especially ATG bowlers. Example 1992 WC Final.

 

[The_Odd_One]

MSD is better captain than Imran as the bowling resources available to him were nowhere as great as the ATG Bowlers that Imran had but he still won more Tests than Imran managed which is a exceptional achievement. So therefore there is no question about MSD being without the services of ATG bowlers (He never had one to begin with ). Pretending that his did not happen would be idiotic (per your own assesement).



Iam speaking about both Tests and ODIs. And Bowlers can win you games in ODIs too especially ATG bowlers. Example 1992 WC Final.

We all saw how awesome was MSD's captaincy in that 8-0 whitewash.

240+ was a match winning total in 1992.

 

[The_Odd_One]

MSD is better captain than Imran as the bowling resources available to him were nowhere as great as the ATG Bowlers that Imran had but he still won more Tests than Imran managed which is a exceptional achievement. So therefore there is no question about MSD being without the services of ATG bowlers (He never had one to begin with ). Pretending that his did not happen would be idiotic (per your own assesement).



Iam speaking about both Tests and ODIs. And Bowlers can win you games in ODIs too especially ATG bowlers. Example 1992 WC Final.

We all saw how awesome was MSD's captaincy in that 8-0 whitewash.

240+ was a match winning total in 1992.

 

[Tusker]

We all saw how awesome was MSD's captaincy in that 8-0 whitewash.

Yeah you also never saw MSD lose to a minnow like SL ( Imran did) . You also probably missed the 8-0 hiding that MSD gave back to Aussies when they toured India. No captain has defeated any Aussie team 8 out of 8 times.

240+ was a match winning total in 1992.

Pakistan would have lost that match without Akrams magical bowling. As simple as that. Thats why he got the MoM.

 

[giri26]

A captain alone cannot win games. You need good players to execute plans on the field. You could be greatest of minds but if your team does not respond or is not capable of executing the plan it will be of no use. I don't think Imran would have been this successful if he had poorer team.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Yeah you also never saw MSD lose to a minnow like SL ( Imran did) . You also probably missed the 8-0 hiding that MSD gave back to Aussies when they toured India. No captain has defeated any Aussie team 8 out of 8 times.



Pakistan would have lost that match without Akrams magical bowling. As simple as that. Thats why he got the MoM.

That proves my point. A captain is as good as his team. When Indian batting was strong, MSD won a good number of matches. When Tendular, Sehwag, etc declined, he suffered embarrassing defeats.

 

[Tusker]

That proves my point. A captain is as good as his team. When Indian batting was strong, MSD won a good number of matches. When Tendular, Sehwag, etc declined, he suffered embarrassing defeats.

So there is no difference between ATG Bowlers and the likes of RP Singh, Pravenn Kumar, Ishant, Munaf, Sreesanth ? These are the fast bowlers that MSD had to rely on. Thats the point of my posts.

Also realize that batsmen cannot win Test matches. You need bowlers to take 20 wkts.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

As much as we like to believe that he had a magic wand, he would not have been able to turn Rahat and Wahab and Junaid etc. into Wasim and Waqar.

No, But it's about using the talent available.

Look at what Pakistan did in 90s after he retired. The team was packed with even more talent compared with what Imran had in 80s. Inzamam, Malik, Waqar, Anwar had all emerged, and Wasim had hit his peak. That team had insane level of talent but because there was no true leader like Imran to bring them together and devlier results, that team was disappointing. On raw talent they should have challenged SA and Australia in that era but they underdelivered.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

I have heard this too many times that IK is an over rated captain, Misbah is much better, Imran Khan had the services of the once in a generation legendary talents like Miandad, Wasim, Waqar, Inzamam and co which is why he won most of his games that he did whereas Misbah did not have the same quality of talent at his disposal.

I find this rubbish to be honest because Imran even during the early parts of his captaincy won games with people with Tahir Naqqash, Jallaludin, Haroon Rashid. He had the services of players like Abdul Qadir, Mudassar Nazar, Mohsin Khan, Saleem Jaffar, Ramiz Raja but i mean cmon now were these guys really world beaters.

The 1992 WC winning team had lost their main match winners in Waqar and Saeed Anwar. Inzamam was a complete rookie, a gamble, Aamir Sohail to was a rookie. Salim Malik was a passenger in this tournament, Wasim only came late to the party in the final and in one group game but went missing for the rest of the tournament.

I believe Imran Khan had the leadership qualities and the motivating skills to get the best out of a weak lot as well. If he was captain of the present bunch, he would definately not put up with the timid brand of cricket that most players play.

But it would be interesting to see how the likes of Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Hafeez, Azhar Ali, Shafiq, Babar Azam, Junaid Khan, Mohd Amir, Hassan Ali, Shadab Khan, Fahim Ashraf would have coped under his leadership vis a vis Misbah. I can guarantee you that Khan would immediately identify the serious match winners, game changers in this list and would go over drive in terms of figuring out how to get the best out of them, how to make them better players, to give a full fledged danda to someone not pulling their weight. We already saw a glimpse when he demanded that Umar Akmal be made to bat at No 3 in his only interaction with the team.

I agree, Imran Khan Hated players who lacked courage and would easily come under pressure. for ezample IK would never play someone like Asad Shafiq who crumbles under pressure or SHan Masood.

 

[James]

No, but then, nobody would.

 

[asfandyar]

The distinction between cause and effect is a little blur here. Having legendary / talented players was an effect of Khan's leadership. No offence to Misbah, but if he were the captain then he would have selected oldies and TTFs instead of Wasim, Waqar and Inzamam.

 

[Bilal7]

MSD is better captain than Imran as the bowling resources available to him were nowhere as great as the ATG Bowlers that Imran had but he still won more Tests than Imran managed which is a exceptional achievement. So therefore there is no question about MSD being without the services of ATG bowlers (He never had one to begin with ). Pretending that his did not happen would be idiotic (per your own assesement).




Iam speaking about both Tests and ODIs. And Bowlers can win you games in ODIs too especially ATG bowlers. Example 1992 WC Final.

Yes, MS did not have the services of ATG bowlers and we all saw the result of that when his team kept getting whipped overseas. Whereas Imran, being the only real ATG bowler in his team at the time allowed his team to compete against the West Indies on their own turf.

In Asia, Dhoni had pretty good spinners to work with and that is where he piled up most of his test wins. Only a deluded individual would claim that bashing teams at home and in Asia makes Dhoni a better captain than Imran.

Dhoni wasn't even a better captain than Misbah, forget about Imran.

 

[Markhor]

These hypotheticals are never easy to answer. However there are some myths about the Imran era. Imran didn't pick youth for the sake of it but those who he believed in.

Take Aaqib Javed for instance. Imran picked Aaqib Javed for an exhibition match in India and gave him a field. Javed immediately changed it and told Imran that he was an outswing bowler so the field was inappropriate. Imran loved that, seeing someone with the courage to answer back to him.

We also like to perpetuate the romantic notion of Imran plucking guys from the streets and make them into stars but some of these players were already in the system. Inzamam wasn't a rookie, he had a number of successful domestic seasons for Multan in the late 80s before being given his international cap. Waqar was UBL's top wicket-taker in 1989 and UBL manager Haroon Rasheed was tipping him off to the selectors. Imran didn't discover Waqar, but where he deserved credit was to fast-track a player who was rising quickly through the ranks in any case. Imran did have his blind spots too (Mansoor Akhtar).

Imran's biggest asset was total command of his team and the respect they had for him. He never compromised on discipline and would never have tolerated an Umar Akmal or Ahmed Shehzad. Javed Miandad was more in tune with the tactical aspect of the game, not to say Imran didn't have any tactical nous, but Imran will admit he wouldn't have been the same captain without Javed by his side.
[MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] said it best by stating that Pakistan teams tend to perform best when the captain has a vision. Hafeez Kardar was fiercely patriotic leading a new nation and took total control of every aspect of the team, building the team around youth and pace bowling. Mushtaq Mohammad was galled by the supine surrender in the 1972-73 tour of Australia under Intikhab Alam and vowed to give as much back to the Aussies. We drew the next series in Oz.

Imran had a vision to win a World Cup after the heartbreak of 87 and to beat the West Indies. Wasim Akram for all his flaws as captain wanted to continue the Imran legacy. Inzamam united the team through religion and looked to move away from the scandal of the late 90s era. Misbah wanted to rebuild the team after the shame of spot-fixing in 2010.

 

[Tusker]

Yes, MS did not have the services of ATG bowlers and we all saw the result of that when his team kept getting whipped overseas. Whereas Imran, being the only real ATG bowler in his team at the time allowed his team to compete against the West Indies on their own turf.

In Asia, Dhoni had pretty good spinners to work with and that is where he piled up most of his test wins. Only a deluded individual would claim that bashing teams at home and in Asia makes Dhoni a better captain than Imran.

Dhoni wasn't even a better captain than Misbah, forget about Imran.

Do you realize that there are a grand total of 3 Matches that Imran Won Outside Asia and one of them was against a depleted WI Team missing Marshall, Viv, Lloyd, Roberts, Garner , Holding (Basically all the main players that made WI great in the 80s )? MSD Won 4 Tests outside Asia and one was against a full strength SAF team with its top players playing.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-2nd-Test-india-tour-of-south-africa-2010-11/


BTW Imran lost a Test match to then minnows SL ... thats like MSD losing to BD now ... if that had happened we would never hear the end of it. Besides that Imran never won a Test Series against WI at home. Wheras MSD never lost a single Test to Aus - the best team of his times at home. Infact he is the only captain to have won 8 out of 8 matches against Aus at home. All of that using players past their prime and Fast bowlers that PP likes to ridicule as trundlers and certainly NO ATG Fast bowlers or spinners.

We have discussed this before and like the last time the end result will be the same - you quietly slipping away from this thread pretty soon.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

But it would be interesting to see how the likes of Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Hafeez, Azhar Ali, Shafiq, Babar Azam, Junaid Khan, Mohd Amir, Hassan Ali, Shadab Khan, Fahim Ashraf would have coped under his leadership vis a vis Misbah. I can guarantee you that Khan would immediately identify the serious match winners, game changers in this list and would go over drive in terms of figuring out how to get the best out of them, how to make them better players, to give a full fledged danda to someone not pulling their weight. We already saw a glimpse when he demanded that Umar Akmal be made to bat at No 3 in his only interaction with the team.

Shadab, Hassan, Fahim and Babar have just started international cricket, they can either graduate to the next level of being great cricketers or fade into obscurity like Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad and Sohaib Maqsood did, or they could just be good cricketers who will stay in the team.

My point is, we have seen many false dawns, we need to reserve our judgements with classifying players as new greats after seeing them in top level cricket for 6-7 years.

 

[maxamax]

I doubt he could. Pakistan wasnt ATG in his early days. It was only the discovery of reverse swing and boom of cricket in Pakistan as a 'trendy' sport that enabled him to find gems at places.

 

[Saj]

Many of these talented and legendary players improved and became great players whilst playing under the leadership of Imran and it's fair to say he nurtured that talent.

 

[as-95]

Imran brought up the level of the players around him. There is no doubt that he would have been equally successgul with the current crop. Great players achieve great things, and Imran was born to be successful.

 

[Bilal7]

Do you realize that there are a grand total of 3 Matches that Imran Won Outside Asia and one of them was against a depleted WI Team missing Marshall, Viv, Lloyd, Roberts, Garner , Holding (Basically all the main players that made WI great in the 80s )? MSD Won 4 Tests outside Asia and one was against a full strength SAF team with its top players playing.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-2nd-Test-india-tour-of-south-africa-2010-11/


BTW Imran lost a Test match to then minnows SL ... thats like MSD losing to BD now ... if that had happened we would never hear the end of it. Besides that Imran never won a Test Series against WI at home. Wheras MSD never lost a single Test to Aus - the best team of his times at home. Infact he is the only captain to have won 8 out of 8 matches against Aus at home. All of that using players past their prime and Fast bowlers that PP likes to ridicule as trundlers and certainly NO ATG Fast bowlers or spinners.

We have discussed this before and like the last time the end result will be the same - you quietly slipping away from this thread pretty soon.

You've hit a new level of delusion if you think beating the Aussies at home is in any way difficult for a subcontinent team. Pakistan and Sri Lanka beat them without any difficulty and if these guys played eight matches in the UAE or Sri Lanka, they would be crushed eight times.

Funny how you mention Australia but not England, who humiliated India at home, or South Africa who nearly won a series in India as well (2010). These two were better teams than Australia in Dhoni's time. Nothing Dhoni did at home compared to Imran's battles against the Windies in Pakistan. No other team was a match for them, while the overrated Aussies you mention were getting beat by everyone with decent spinners.

I must also applaud your impressive downplaying of Imran's record. Unlike Dhoni and his legendary 8:0 whitewash, Imran's Pakistan always competed fiercely in Australia and England, drawing several matches there and winning a couple of matches in England. Yes, there were not as many wins as one would have liked but given the historical performances of Asian teams in these two countries, it was a highly impressive record and one that far outshines Dhoni's.

The loss to Sri Lanka was a fluke, just like South Africa's loss to India was a fluke. Freak results can and will happen but the bigger picture must be kept in mind. While Imran's Pakistan was more than a match for the likes of Australia, England and West Indies, Dhoni's India was generally cannon-fodder for the former two plus South Africa.

Imran Khan was a legendary captain and people still dream for a leader like him to emerge again. Whereas Dhoni was ridiculed towards the end of his test career and people could not wait for him to be relieved of his captaincy duties. Kohli, for all his flaws, has already turned India into a more well-rounded test team, capable of competing overseas. After Imran's retirement, every new captain has tried to follow his model while Dhoni's defensive, meek, spin-dependent captaincy was erased by the first guy to take up the mantle after him, Virat Kohli.

The fact that Dhobi had no good fast bowlers was his fault as much as anyone else's. India has over a billion people but if they do not have people looking for good fast bowlers, they will certainly never be found. Compare Dhoni's treatment of his pacers with Kohli's. One used to repeatedly insult and blame his pace bowlers for every defeat while the other gives them confidence and an arm around the shoulder when needed. Let's not even compare Dhoni with Imran, a leader who had a huge role to play in the development of two of the best fast bowlers the game has ever seen.

Imran Khan was absolutely a much better captain than Dhoni. A more even comparison can be between the Indian and Misbah ul Haq, but Misbah would still be the choice of most people.

Don't flatter yourself, discussing cricket with you can become cumbersome very quickly which is why you often end up just quoting and debating with yourself.

These hypotheticals are never easy to answer. However there are some myths about the Imran era. Imran didn't pick youth for the sake of it but those who he believed in.

Take Aaqib Javed for instance. Imran picked Aaqib Javed for an exhibition match in India and gave him a field. Javed immediately changed it and told Imran that he was an outswing bowler so the field was inappropriate. Imran loved that, seeing someone with the courage to answer back to him.

We also like to perpetuate the romantic notion of Imran plucking guys from the streets and make them into stars but some of these players were already in the system. Inzamam wasn't a rookie, he had a number of successful domestic seasons for Multan in the late 80s before being given his international cap. Waqar was UBL's top wicket-taker in 1989 and UBL manager Haroon Rasheed was tipping him off to the selectors. Imran didn't discover Waqar, but where he deserved credit was to fast-track a player who was rising quickly through the ranks in any case. Imran did have his blind spots too (Mansoor Akhtar).

Imran's biggest asset was total command of his team and the respect they had for him. He never compromised on discipline and would never have tolerated an Umar Akmal or Ahmed Shehzad. Javed Miandad was more in tune with the tactical aspect of the game, not to say Imran didn't have any tactical nous, but Imran will admit he wouldn't have been the same captain without Javed by his side.

[MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] said it best by stating that Pakistan teams tend to perform best when the captain has a vision. Hafeez Kardar was fiercely patriotic leading a new nation and took total control of every aspect of the team, building the team around youth and pace bowling. Mushtaq Mohammad was galled by the supine surrender in the 1972-73 tour of Australia under Intikhab Alam and vowed to give as much back to the Aussies. We drew the next series in Oz.

Imran had a vision to win a World Cup after the heartbreak of 87 and to beat the West Indies. Wasim Akram for all his flaws as captain wanted to continue the Imran legacy. Inzamam united the team through religion and looked to move away from the scandal of the late 90s era. Misbah wanted to rebuild the team after the shame of spot-fixing in 2010.

Great post especially the last paragraph. Our best captains have definitely been Imran, Misbah, Inzamam, Miandad and Wasim. Let's see what Sarfaraz's vision will be and where he will end up.

 

[Tusker]

You've hit a new level of delusion if you think beating the Aussies at home is in any way difficult for a subcontinent team. Pakistan and Sri Lanka beat them without any difficulty and if these guys played eight matches in the UAE or Sri Lanka, they would be crushed eight times.

Funny how you mention Australia but not England, who humiliated India at home, or South Africa who nearly won a series in India as well (2010). These two were better teams than Australia in Dhoni's time. Nothing Dhoni did at home compared to Imran's battles against the Windies in Pakistan. No other team was a match for them, while the overrated Aussies you mention were getting beat by everyone with decent spinners.

I must also applaud your impressive downplaying of Imran's record. Unlike Dhoni and his legendary 8:0 whitewash, Imran's Pakistan always competed fiercely in Australia and England, drawing several matches there and winning a couple of matches in England. Yes, there were not as many wins as one would have liked but given the historical performances of Asian teams in these two countries, it was a highly impressive record and one that far outshines Dhoni's.

The loss to Sri Lanka was a fluke, just like South Africa's loss to India was a fluke. Freak results can and will happen but the bigger picture must be kept in mind. While Imran's Pakistan was more than a match for the likes of Australia, England and West Indies, Dhoni's India was generally cannon-fodder for the former two plus South Africa.

Imran Khan was a legendary captain and people still dream for a leader like him to emerge again. Whereas Dhoni was ridiculed towards the end of his test career and people could not wait for him to be relieved of his captaincy duties. Kohli, for all his flaws, has already turned India into a more well-rounded test team, capable of competing overseas. After Imran's retirement, every new captain has tried to follow his model while Dhoni's defensive, meek, spin-dependent captaincy was erased by the first guy to take up the mantle after him, Virat Kohli.

The fact that Dhobi had no good fast bowlers was his fault as much as anyone else's. India has over a billion people but if they do not have people looking for good fast bowlers, they will certainly never be found. Compare Dhoni's treatment of his pacers with Kohli's. One used to repeatedly insult and blame his pace bowlers for every defeat while the other gives them confidence and an arm around the shoulder when needed. Let's not even compare Dhoni with Imran, a leader who had a huge role to play in the development of two of the best fast bowlers the game has ever seen.

Imran Khan was absolutely a much better captain than Dhoni. A more even comparison can be between the Indian and Misbah ul Haq, but Misbah would still be the choice of most people.

Don't flatter yourself, discussing cricket with you can become cumbersome very quickly which is why you often end up just quoting and debating with yourself.



Great post especially the last paragraph. Our best captains have definitely been Imran, Misbah, Inzamam, Miandad and Wasim. Let's see what Sarfaraz's vision will be and where he will end up.

You might want to take a look at Aus vs SL series in 2011. Pak did not play them in that time period at home. And also while you are at it check the Aussie team ranking in 2008 when MSD First beat them.Also check HIS RECORD vs SA ... it is same as Imran's record vs WI except MSD played against a full strength SA team unlike Imran.

 

[Oligochaetes]

I am sure someone must have pointed this out earlier, but didnt Imran himself handpick many of the players in the team? He had the charisma, the personality, the talent to do what he did and assembled the team that he wanted.

He extended his job as a captain outside the field and scouted players for his team by himself. He didnt wait to be given a team. He built one.