Would India have won both of the South Africa and England series if tosses went their way?

[Canford Cliffs]

Not an excuse but the only game Ind won toss and batted first in SA, they won that test. Even in this series, Ind lost the toss on all 4 matches. The only game Root asked Ind to bat first (which Kohli would hv opted anyway), they won that game.

Except the Lords test which was played on unreal conditions, all the matches in SA and Eng are won by team batting first. Can we say India's bad luck with the toss was the main reason for defeat in SA and Eng? Would India would hv won both series if the toss had gone in their favour?

 

[Usman Chadda]

No.

 

[Ab Fan]

England- Maybe
SA- No.

After losing the toss in first test, Kohli said he would have opted to bowl first. So, toss was insignificant. SA won that match.

In 2nd test, SA won the toss and won the match.

In 3rd test, India won the toss and won the match.

So, series would still have been 2-1 SA.

 

[cricketjoshila]

SA yes. Eng except Lords test no.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

SA yes. Eng except Lords test no.

So you are it would hv been 2-2 now in Eng?

 

[the_outsider]

Probably would have won in Southhampton.

Everywhere else I don't think it would have changed the final outcome.

 

[Pakhs]

The wickets have been such that it wouldn't have made any difference, Not many of the tests went to 5th day with result on the line.

 

[the_outsider]

The wickets have been such that it wouldn't have made any difference, Not many of the tests went to 5th day with result on the line.

You're right about that. Except for the pitch at the Ageas Bowl. That detoriated quite a lot over the course of the match.

 

[the Great Khan]

lol, and if i had been born with wings Id have flown..

sorry but excuses like the toss just shouldnt matter. If your a great team the toss means nothing..

 

[Sam99]

Ashwin was soo poor in last test that even if england were chasing 250 in last innings ashwin would have allowed them to chase.

 

[Pakhs]

You're right about that. Except for the pitch at the Ageas Bowl. That detoriated quite a lot over the course of the match.

But then again ashwin didn't bowl very well so not sure if that would have matter in that way.

 

[the_outsider]

But then again ashwin didn't bowl very well so not sure if that would have matter in that way.

That's a fair point.

I was thinking from a different angle though. Like, if England bowled first, then Moeen wouldn't have had any rough patches in the 1st innings to exploit and India might have managed a few more runs.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Another toss loss for Kohli at the oval. That is 9 loses out of 10 toss

 

[Nikhil_cric]

We would have had a better chance for sure. But you can't control those things. What they could have done is selected better and played practice matches. No point blaming toss.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

We would have had a better chance for sure. But you can't control those things. What they could have done is selected better and played practice matches. No point blaming toss.

Why is Kohli calling heads everytime? 5 time he called heads this series and all 5 times its tails. Also why dont Kohli get a chance to flip the coin once and Root makes a call??

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Embarrassing thread and, embarrassing that our fans going Bangla way. Excuses after excuses.

We didn't play well and, we didn't win.

We played well at Lord's and at Johannesburg and, we won.

How difficult is it to understand?

 

[RamLakhan]

No... As we have shown it at home! Visitors couldn't take any advantage after winning the toss, batting first... Toss reflects the confidence of oneself... If you lose the toss and still beat the opponent, then the opponent goes out of sorts in his thinking & feels that nothing goes according to his wish and it further demoralizes him! On the other hand if you win the game after losing the toss it lifts up your spirits like anything! There is a complex relationship between luck & skills! Also note that English captain made the wrong call after winning the toss in one of the matches, India still couldn't capitalize on that & go on to win the series!

 

[AAli98]

Would have could have should have

Bottom line is not goid enough away from home series defeat awaits in Aus aswell Starc Hazlewood Cummins Lyon will eat there batting line up for breakfast!!

 

[Pakhs]

That's a fair point.

I was thinking from a different angle though. Like, if England bowled first, then Moeen wouldn't have had any rough patches in the 1st innings to exploit and India might have managed a few more runs.

Yes your angle is valid too.

 

[Usman Chadda]

From ‘India might be as dominant as Australia of 2000s/Windies of 70s’, ‘India will not just beat but humiliate England’ etc to this.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Why is Kohli calling heads everytime? 5 time he called heads this series and all 5 times its tails. Also why dont Kohli get a chance to flip the coin once and Root makes a call??

If our team can't win despite losing the toss then it is what it is. We have no control over that. And im glad Kohli hasn't whinged about the toss like certain other captains when touring Asia. The real questions should be about acclimatising and Kohli defending the decision not to play warm ups. Or the fact that the selectors were dumb enough to select a squad not based on merit . Or about kohli's captaincy and shastri's so-called coaching. You are talking about the toss like it's the most important factor.

 

[big_gamer007]

NO, Indian team is just not good enough that is the harsh truth.

Maybe the next generation will be better but this generation is mediocre bunch overseas.

 

[Sachin136]

There is almost no way India would've lost Cape Town had they batted first.

 

[dani2k]

Spilt milk..Batting failures are the main culprit as well as selectorial calls (Pujara drop, Yadav inclusion and Ashwin's inclusion despite being half fit) - the last part was all gamble and we would have sung a different note had they come off. They didn't and we have to live with the result.

However I would have loved to have won the toss at Lords and put the opposition in. Would have been very interesting to see how that match would have shaped up.

All said and done, England won the decisive moments and held their nerve. So deserving winners and no complaints.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

No.

 

[Amjid Javed]

wow, indian fans really scrapping the bottom of the barrel for excuses for defeat

 

[jiduguravindra]

Kohli won 18 tosses in test matches and won 15 tests and drawn 3 tests..This sums up the thread...

 

[Syed1]

Kohli won 18 tosses in test matches and won 15 tests and drawn 3 tests..This sums up the thread...

How many of those were at home

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Kohli won 18 tosses in test matches and won 15 tests and drawn 3 tests..This sums up the thread...

Exactly and that has been my point

 

[Thomaskutty]

Toss played a substantial part in the series, imo. I don't want to take credit away from Curran but yeah batting under the right conditions matter in a place like England.

 

[hadi123]

I think the result in SA could have been different had the toss gone in their favour, but I don't think it's been that important this series. India lost the toss in the 3rd Test yet still mauled England.

 

[TeamPak95]

The only things you should be saying in regards to not winning games is if you could've batted, bowled, and/or fielded better. If you're team is the number one team, then the toss shouldn't even come close to being used as an excuse for losing games. Obvious stuff is obvious.

 

[the_outsider]

I can understand that overall winning or losing the toss shouldn't be a factor.

But can anyone here deny that losing the toss at Lord's was a huge disadvantage?

 

[cricketindiafan]

We have ourselves to blame and not the tosses.

1st Test 3rd innings- Eng were 87/7, total lead of 100, we should not have been chasing a run more than 125. Would have been a win

2nd Test- 2nd innings, Eng 131/5, ahead by 24 runs, could have limited lead to 100-150. But no way we could have won

3rd Test - won well

4th Test - 1st innings - Eng 86/6, should have been limited to 150-160, scored 246. 3rd innings- Eng 178/6, ahead by 151 runs. Could have limited chase to 185-190


So many ifs and buts, so many near misses...

 

[battler]

I have no doubt India would have won both the series. We have an an amazing bowling line up but a choking batting lineup.
Our bowling lineup can handle pressure but not our batting line up.

 

[the_outsider]

We have ourselves to blame and not the tosses.

1st Test 3rd innings- Eng were 87/7, total lead of 100, we should not have been chasing a run more than 125. Would have been a win

2nd Test- 2nd innings, Eng 131/5, ahead by 24 runs, could have limited lead to 100-150. But no way we could have won

3rd Test - won well

4th Test - 1st innings - Eng 86/6, should have been limited to 150-160, scored 246. 3rd innings- Eng 178/6, ahead by 151 runs. Could have limited chase to 185-190


So many ifs and buts, so many near misses...

2nd test no way

 

[Titan24]

Not sure abt India but Pak would definitely have won home series against Srl if they would have won the toss and batted first. However, that didnt happen and they had to play Herath in 4th innings

 

[cricketindiafan]

I have no doubt India would have won both the series. We have an an amazing bowling line up but a choking batting lineup.
Our bowling lineup can handle pressure but not our batting line up.

Our best ever pace bowling line up, but that inability to close out innings after blowing away top and middle order continues to be bane. No complaints though. Has been great to see us not concede 400+ even once. Only Lord’s was an aberration

 

[Bilal7]

Lol. Stop being sore losers. South Africa had to bat last on your rank turners last time they toured. Would they have won the series had they won the tosses?

 

[Ab Fan]

India should have won at Southampton but Ashwin turned out to be a massive disappointment with bowl, not to forget the batsmen not able to show guts with the bat as well.

India should really have won at Southampton after the way they bowled to England on day 1 and had they shown more guts, could have won at Edgabastan as well.

 

[Slim]

No, Indian team is simply not good enough. Stop looking for excuses.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Turn the table and make these same excuses for teams that visited India also.

 

[the_outsider]

Turn the table and make these same excuses for teams that visited India also.

England won 4 out 5 tosses against India in 2016.

Australia won 3 out of 4 tosses against India in 2017.

 

[austerlitz]

Ifs are meaningless,sure winning tosses would mean no last inning chase.But batting needs to improve either way.

 

[troodon]

Nobody knows.

But we could have won the SA tests easily had ABDV decided to retire 3 months earlier.

We could have also won the England Tests 4-1 had Sam Curran debuted 1 series later.

ABDV played crucial innings everytime SA were under the pump. Same with Sam Curran. He bailed out England everytime they were about to be bundled out for less than 150.

We had no answer for both ABDV and Curran.

 

[Bilal7]

Nobody knows.

But we could have won the SA tests easily had ABDV decided to retire 3 months earlier.

We could have also won the England Tests 4-1 had Sam Curran debuted 1 series later.

ABDV played crucial innings everytime SA were under the pump. Same with Sam Curran. He bailed out England everytime they were about to be bundled out for less than 150.

We had no answer for both ABDV and Curran.

And you would have been demolished had Kohli been injured for both tours.

 

[mak36]

Nobody knows.

But we could have won the SA tests easily had ABDV decided to retire 3 months earlier.

We could have also won the England Tests 4-1 had Sam Curran debuted 1 series later.

ABDV played crucial innings everytime SA were under the pump. Same with Sam Curran. He bailed out England everytime they were about to be bundled out for less than 150.

We had no answer for both ABDV and Curran.

)

Also for the record, Curran debuted in the Pakistan series so had he debuted one series later he would have still played this series.

 

[Chrish]

This current series, I would say yes..

But that shoudn't take away English series win. Overcoming such challenges is what make this game interesting.

 

[Slog]

If India had better batsmen who could stay at the wicket and a spinner who didn't go missing then India would have won in South Africa and England

 

[hadi123]

We have ourselves to blame and not the tosses.

1st Test 3rd innings- Eng were 87/7, total lead of 100, we should not have been chasing a run more than 125. Would have been a win

2nd Test- 2nd innings, Eng 131/5, ahead by 24 runs, could have limited lead to 100-150. But no way we could have won

3rd Test - won well

4th Test - 1st innings - Eng 86/6, should have been limited to 150-160, scored 246. 3rd innings- Eng 178/6, ahead by 151 runs. Could have limited chase to 185-190


So many ifs and buts, so many near misses...

Exactly. 1st Test and 4th Test they squandered great positions and only have themselves to blame really.

 

[shaz619]

SA yes. Eng except Lords test no.

You have a low cricket IQ and are too defensive as an India fan to see otherwise. Your team is simply not good enough and your players are just too soft / mentally weak, they complain about AC in hotels rather then fight for their country's honour, a toss would never make such a difference that too when they have 5 whole days to turn things around, England have managed to win games even when you had the edge at times. Just shows that the Indian players lack heart.