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Would you agree that the current Pakistani ODI team is our best ODI team of 2000s?

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I believe the current ODI team has the luxury of several potential match winners. I would say players like Fakhar Zaman, Babar Azam, Shadab Khan, Hassan Ali, and Mohammad Amir, have shown that they the ability to turn the outcome of any ODI match in Pakistan’s favor. We would have to go back to 1998 to find a squad that was more talented than the current one. After 2000, several big name players like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis and Saeed Anwar were either well past their prime or at the very end of their careers. We obviously had Inzamam during the early 2000s, Razzaq and Afridi were never consistent, and Shoiab A. hardly ever played consistently due to injuries. The only other potential match winner we had in the team aside from Inzamam would have to be Mohammad Yousef. He was also criticized for not performing during big matches. And I feel his S/R was also too low in the ODIs (75).

Would you agree that the current ODI team is our best ODI team of 2000s?
 
Expect that the middle order is very very weak compared to team with inzi yousuf and younis
 
Pak ODI team was pretty decent from like 2004-2006. Pak was one of the first teams who used to post 300+ scores regularly. Talent wise Pak had Butt YK when he was good in ODIs Moyo Inzi Razzaq at his peak Afridi under Woolmer a lot more consistent. Kami at his best. Akhtar Asif talent wise the woolmer odi team was a lot better than this one. Probably the best ODI team of the 2010s though.
 
Adil_94 said:
Pak ODI team was pretty decent from like 2004-2006. Pak was one of the first teams who used to post 300+ scores regularly. Talent wise Pak had Butt YK when he was good in ODIs Moyo Inzi Razzaq at his peak Afridi under Woolmer a lot more consistent. Kami at his best. Akhtar Asif talent wise the woolmer odi team was a lot better than this one. Probably the best ODI team of the 2010s though.
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Came here to right this.
 
If Pak manage to win an Asia Cup and are competitive in the WC then I will say it's the best team of the century so far. Till then, the Pakistani side, on paper at least, which contain Khan, Inzy, Yousuf in the middle order and Akhtar, Asif as new ball bowlers along with the likes of Razzaq and Afridi may have been better but they never won anything lol
 
Long way to go before that.They did well In CT but then got whitewashed in NZ by 5-0.To me, your 2011 WC team was much better.Much better bowling and batting only fielding was a problem.
 
Oh God people keep bringing the NZ ODIs as if it is some sort of world event that Pakistan completely messed up.


Let me remind people that in the NZ ODIs we did not have Junaid and Shinwari available and Hasan and Amir were also carrying niggles and injuries (they each missed matches within the series itself). Fakhar Zaman missed one match as well. Azhar Ali of all people was opening the batting, now he is finally dropped for good (fingers crossed)


Yes we should have done better, and a team of our caliber shouldn't be getting white washed but the team that played against NZ was severely hampered due to injuries and player unavailability. To keep putting this team down due to one performance shows a lack of objectivity and brain power.
 
2000-2002 was as good if not better. Good blend of experience and youth.

By 2003 the experience had gone past its expiry date.

Having said that, this is definitely one of our better squads of the last 15 or so years.
 
Tbh our performances have been over inflated by Fakhar Zaman... what happens if he fails?
We need one more similar class player to be considered a dominant force..
 
Nah, batting still a bit weak and not enough matches with this current bunch to make that assessment. Could still turn out to be though.
 
Dingolfy said:
Long way to go before that.They did well In CT but then got whitewashed in NZ by 5-0.To me, your 2011 WC team was much better.Much better bowling and batting only fielding was a problem.
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No way was 2011WC team stronger than this. That team survived because of Ajmal and Hafeez, with Afridi chipping in on tailor-made wickets.

This team is much better.
 
Probably our best team. Most definitely our most balanced team. If guys don't agree with at least this then they must be off their rocker
 
Not really, two bad LOI tournaments can bring out the cracks in the team.

Although this is a PCT which has defn over achieved with CT victory compared to the amazing teams of late 90's and mid 2000's.

Even the glorified team of 80's never won a WC and lost the Champions trophy finals to India in 1985.
 
JaDed said:
Not really, two bad LOI tournaments can bring out the cracks in the team.

Although this is a PCT which has defn over achieved with CT victory compared to the amazing teams of late 90's and mid 2000's.

Even the glorified team of 80's never won a WC and lost the Champions trophy finals to India in 1985.
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Too soon to judge them based on a small sample size. Majority of these boys have less international level experience than some of the minnow teams.
 
Usman Chadda said:
No way was 2011WC team stronger than this. That team survived because of Ajmal and Hafeez, with Afridi chipping in on tailor-made wickets.

This team is much better.
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JaDed said:
Not really, two bad LOI tournaments can bring out the cracks in the team.

Although this is a PCT which has defn over achieved with CT victory compared to the amazing teams of late 90's and mid 2000's.

Even the glorified team of 80's never won a WC and lost the Champions trophy finals to India in 1985.
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To be fair, the 80's Pakistan team was stronger in tests. It was a good LOI unit but Imran himself was a better test player and did not give much importance to LOIs. That said the 87 PAK team should have won the World Cup considering how strong they had become .
 
barah_admi said:
If Pak manage to win an Asia Cup and are competitive in the WC then I will say it's the best team of the century so far. Till then, the Pakistani side, on paper at least, which contain Khan, Inzy, Yousuf in the middle order and Akhtar, Asif as new ball bowlers along with the likes of Razzaq and Afridi may have been better but they never won anything lol
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Exactly
 
Pakistan's ODI team which faced us in Jeetlo Dil series and return series in India were better, in my opinion.

Their WC '03 squad was great, on paper at least. However, one should also remember that competition in those days was far greater with more greats operating those days than they're today.
 
idrizzy said:
Probably our best team. Most definitely our most balanced team. If guys don't agree with at least this then they must be off their rocker
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We missing a 6th bowler.
Our best teams had a proper 6th bowler which added to our already strong bowling.
And a hitter at 8
We have the hitter at 8 but not the 6th bowler.
I'm sorry but Malik does not count. I mean a proper bowling option, like hafeez pre ban razzaq afridi etc
 
[MENTION=139120]BleedGreen[/MENTION]forever YK u can say esp in last 7 or 8 years of ODIs was mediocre. But man u can tell u never watched Inzi and just went on statsguru. Inzi averaging nearly 40 odd with that SR for someone who played most of the time in the 90s and early 2000s when a good score was 250 260. Inzi was one of the best ODI middle order players in the world. Theres a reason he was picked in the ODI world XI.
 
Let's put it this way - if Pakistan had lost their CT final a la the group game this thread would never have come up.

It basically hinges on the result of one game, not a sustained period of performances.
 
Decent team right now but I don't agree with the notion that we have multiple match winners in our team. Right now we are a team whose output is more than a sum of its parts as most players chip in with their performances. We hardly see a bowler tearing the opposition batting apart and similarly a batsman flaying the opposition bowling for 50 overs.

The only match winner we have in our team is Fakhar Zaman. He won us the Champions Trophy 2017 and the Tri-series T20 final in Zimbabwe.

Hasan Ali chips in with his usual 2-for wickets in matches but that's about it. I've yet to see Hasan Ali take 4-5 wickets in a spell and crushing the opposition's backbone. I'm in no way discounting Hasan's contribution but he is not a matchwinner like we've seen in Pakistani cricket in days gone by. Shadab is a handy cricketer who provides a breakthrough or sorts and chips in with valuable runs but again not a match winner. Amir performs once in 40 games.

Asif Ali has the potential to become a match winner but he needs to become a better all round batsman. Most of the time he will come in before 35 overs and he will need to build an innings and then explode at the end. Not all the time he will get the luxury to come in at 43 overs and have the license to go berserk.

So, overall in terms of talent, this team is nowhere near to the teams of 2004-07 or even the 2011 world cup team but what this team has is lots of character, unity and the will to fight which previous teams never had.
 
shariqnoor said:
Decent team right now but I don't agree with the notion that we have multiple match winners in our team. Right now we are a team whose output is more than a sum of its parts as most players chip in with their performances. We hardly see a bowler tearing the opposition batting apart and similarly a batsman flaying the opposition bowling for 50 overs.

The only match winner we have in our team is Fakhar Zaman. He won us the Champions Trophy 2017 and the Tri-series T20 final in Zimbabwe.

Hasan Ali chips in with his usual 2-for wickets in matches but that's about it. I've yet to see Hasan Ali take 4-5 wickets in a spell and crushing the opposition's backbone. I'm in no way discounting Hasan's contribution but he is not a matchwinner like we've seen in Pakistani cricket in days gone by. Shadab is a handy cricketer who provides a breakthrough or sorts and chips in with valuable runs but again not a match winner. Amir performs once in 40 games.

Asif Ali has the potential to become a match winner but he needs to become a better all round batsman. Most of the time he will come in before 35 overs and he will need to build an innings and then explode at the end. Not all the time he will get the luxury to come in at 43 overs and have the license to go berserk.

So, overall in terms of talent, this team is nowhere near to the teams of 2004-07 or even the 2011 world cup team but what this team has is lots of character, unity and the will to fight which previous teams never had.
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The batting line-up in 2011 was awful to say the least. It narrowly beats 2015WC Pakistan team for the weakest Pakistan side to play a WC.
 
The 2004-06 side under Woolmer had some memorable results, the biggest was coming from 2-0 down away to India to win 4-2 against a team that were World Cup runners-up and featured likes of Tendulkar, Sehwag and Ganguly.

We also beat Sri Lanka away in 2006 when they had stars like Murali, Sanga and Jayawardene, and they were the last Pakistan team to beat England in an ODI series whereas this team is still unproven against the top sides in bilateral series. However Woolmer's side had dismal outings in ICC tournaments whereas this side performed on the big stage in the CT.

We had a fantastic middle order of Inzamam, Yousuf and Younis (who had a brief purple patch in ODIs under Woolmer) so that team holds the edge there.

However Fakhar Zaman is better than any of the openers we tried in that period. This is a fitter team with far better fielding standards, and united under the captain, free from the factionalism of past teams.

The 2002-03 and 2007-15 teams (barring a good 2011 WC run) were awful.
 
They badly failed in their only testing ODI series after the Champions Trophy, so it is a baseless claim.

However, they are probably the best minnow-bashing Pakistani ODI team I have seen in a long time.

They are better than Shoaib Malik’s 2007-2008 team when it comes to minnow-bashing.
 
can't judge untill the next year. Enough playing against minnows. We'll see against india/aus/nz/eng/saf and that'll tell us how much we are improved. Improvement is def there, 2015/16 team was painful to watch, this team is improved but the time will tell.. If we manage to win asia cup or atleast reach finals , defeat nz/aus at home, and at least give some tough fight to saffers n england overseas, then surely this team will have the honour of the "best since 2006" tag.
 
possibly they are.

I think the 2011 wc team would have been great except for selection, match fixing errors. Could have been:

1. Butt
2. Hafeez
3. Akmal
4. Alam
5. Misbah
6. Sarfraz
7. Afridi
8. Amir
9. Gul
10. Ajmal
11. Irfan / Akhtar

12. Razzaq

As it is, we got to the semis in that tournament. Still shaky with the bat, but that bowling line up is killer.
 
Mamoon said:
They badly failed in their only testing ODI series after the Champions Trophy, so it is a baseless claim.

However, they are probably the best minnow-bashing Pakistani ODI team I have seen in a long time.

They are better than Shoaib Malik’s 2007-2008 team when it comes to minnow-bashing.
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This team is certainly an upgrade to what we had at 2015 WC. The batting is heavily dependant though on the classy Fakhar Zaman and Babar Azam. The plus points are the depth in bowling, a long tail and the improvement in fielding.
I say if we find one more world class batsman this team will start winning more often. But the average Pakistan supporter is still happy with this team as it has a lot of spirit.
 
Whichever era inzanam, yusuf, and yunis played is the best Pak team.

The current team is yet to be fully tested I think.
 
Syed1 said:
Oh God people keep bringing the NZ ODIs as if it is some sort of world event that Pakistan completely messed up.


Let me remind people that in the NZ ODIs we did not have Junaid and Shinwari available and Hasan and Amir were also carrying niggles and injuries (they each missed matches within the series itself). Fakhar Zaman missed one match as well. Azhar Ali of all people was opening the batting, now he is finally dropped for good (fingers crossed)


Yes we should have done better, and a team of our caliber shouldn't be getting white washed but the team that played against NZ was severely hampered due to injuries and player unavailability. To keep putting this team down due to one performance shows a lack of objectivity and brain power.
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This this and this.

It's beyond sad how people don't realize this.
 
Syed1 said:
Oh God people keep bringing the NZ ODIs as if it is some sort of world event that Pakistan completely messed up.


Let me remind people that in the NZ ODIs we did not have Junaid and Shinwari available and Hasan and Amir were also carrying niggles and injuries (they each missed matches within the series itself). Fakhar Zaman missed one match as well. Azhar Ali of all people was opening the batting, now he is finally dropped for good (fingers crossed)


Yes we should have done better, and a team of our caliber shouldn't be getting white washed but the team that played against NZ was severely hampered due to injuries and player unavailability. To keep putting this team down due to one performance shows a lack of objectivity and brain power.
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Sorry but you can't use this as an excuse. We were pathetic in that series. Even under the Misbah days we would still one at least one game in these series. And we didn't just lose those ODI's, we got thrashed. That was a pathetic performance, but I do think that this team has more potential than a few years ago, which is why I was shocked at 5-0. Let's see how we bounce back.
 
hadi123 said:
Sorry but you can't use this as an excuse. We were pathetic in that series. Even under the Misbah days we would still one at least one game in these series. And we didn't just lose those ODI's, we got thrashed. That was a pathetic performance, but I do think that this team has more potential than a few years ago, which is why I was shocked at 5-0. Let's see how we bounce back.
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This! I always wonder that our team under misbah was poor but still we always managed to give tough fight to teams even in overseas. Even we won in south africa under misbah. But still this team is much improved and better in term of talent and skill level, thats why nz odi series outcome came as a great shock. You can't expect a good team to be whitewashed so brutally. But still that was one series. We'll see in next 5,6 months that how much we are improved when we play the likes of aus,nz,eng and saf. That'll surely tell whether we belong to top tier or we are just as pathetic as we were in the past.
 
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Difficult to say. While previous Pakistani team's didn't achieve a lot, they were certainly not as pathetic against top nations.

In comparison, current team has won a CT, but get trashed by top sides quite regularly. I personally am a bigger fan of consistency than a few flukes here and there, so no, this is not the best Pakistani side since 2000s.
 
BlackShadow said:
Difficult to say. While previous Pakistani team's didn't achieve a lot, they were certainly not as pathetic against top nations.

In comparison, current team has won a CT, but get trashed by top sides quite regularly. I personally am a bigger fan of consistency than a few flukes here and there, so no, this is not the best Pakistani side since 2000s.
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One bad series is getting thrashed regularly?

Under Sarfraz, Pakistan has so far played three ODI series and one ICC tournament. They beat West Indies, thrashed Sri Lanka and lost badly to New Zealand. Also won the ICC tournament.

Not enough sample size to judge this team
 
Considering we won an ODI series against ATG Australia in Australia in 02-03 and this team lost 5-0 in NZ recently, not really. CT win can only count for so much
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Considering we won an ODI series against ATG Australia in Australia in 02-03 and this team lost 5-0 in NZ recently, not really. CT win can only count for so much
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We got knocked out of the WC2003 in the first round, right after that win in Australia. Performances in ICC tournaments should count for more.
 
Usman Chadda said:
One bad series is getting thrashed regularly?

Under Sarfraz, Pakistan has so far played three ODI series and one ICC tournament. They beat West Indies, thrashed Sri Lanka and lost badly to New Zealand. Also won the ICC tournament.

Not enough sample size to judge this team
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A reasonable statement if we stay consistent with it. Some people will write off the 5-0 in NZ as an aberration, while others will look at CT that way. Still a premature thread, so it is fair for the opinion to go either way.
 
BlackShadow said:
A reasonable statement if we stay consistent with it. Some people will write off the 5-0 in NZ as an aberration, while others will look at CT that way. Still a premature thread, so it is fair for the opinion to go either way.
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We will be in a position to judge this team probably by March next year. Pakistan is playing some top sides for the next few months, with series against Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and England back to back. Asia Cup will be a nice warm-up to get this team running.
 
This team is shaping nicely and good one and if we win asia cup and also world cup then it will be the best hands down.. in my opinion if we get sharjeel back asap in the team i think we will definitely be strong favorites to win 2019 WC we just lack a strong opener who can partner fakhar otherwise our team is complete..
Fakhar
Sharjeel
Babar
Sarfraz
Malik
Asif Ali
Shadab
Faheem
Hasan
Amir
Shinwari
Bench:
Junaid
Imad
Haris
hafeez
 
I think Pakistan had a better team around 2004-2005. I may be wrong about exact years, but it was sometime in mid 2000s.
 
Varun said:
Let's put it this way - if Pakistan had lost their CT final a la the group game this thread would never have come up.

It basically hinges on the result of one game, not a sustained period of performances.
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This is true, but in terms of ability it's probably the highest I've seen since I started watching cricket regularly in 2009 or so. It's also the team which has achieved the most since 2009 with the CT win, but honestly not much to top, the only other biggish wins I really remember since then was beating India and SA away and winning the Asia Cup. Hasn't been much.

I'm excited for this team, and I do think it's the strongest since 2009, but I feel has potential to do more. We're still a mid/low ranked team, and I'd like that to change and get consistent wins, and to be considered as one of the top/strong teams entering ODI tournaments rather than the dark horse/underdog. I'd like us to look to get to and maintain a top 4 ranking in ODIs as a first step. That would obviously mean that we'd have to start winning more at home and away and going consistently deep in the tournaments.

I think the ability is there for top 4, and nearly every team in the top 7 has done it in recent past, New Zealand have even. Sri Lanka might have too. The only format where we've consistently been around the top for long periods of time is T20, and I'd like us to extend those sort of consistent high level performances to other formats too.
 
I want to see a good chasing culture in them before I can say yes!! Bowling wise it has been superior to any other team in the 2000s or the 2010s barring the time when all 3 Akhtar Wasim and Waqar were playing with saqlain/razzaq/azhar mahmood in any combination
 
No. Pakistani team just before Asif and Shoaib ban was the strongest. Also the one in the series of 2010 fixing saga just before the news.
 
Nope it's not even close to the mid 2000s side which had a strong batting line up with Asif and Shoaib opening the bowling attack.

This Pakistan batting line up is a one man team. The rest are pretty much just accumulators.

Unfortunately one of the major reasons why we're so far behind the likes of Aus, SA, NZ, Eng and Ind in ODIs is because of Misbah (and Waqar). He brought Pakistan back to the 80s with his defensive brand of cricket. Ironically enough Pakistan's teams of the 90s and 2000s were actually ahead of their time and had a lot of firepower throughout the batting line up with multiple hitting all rounders.

According to an interview by Azhar Ali (here on PP - 2-3 years ago I believe), he mentioned that Misbah's target was getting to 260 batting first and leave everything to the hands of Ajmal. When he got banned he had no plan B, C or X, Y and Z and was ruthlessly exposed in the 2015 WC.

While most teams after 2011 WC were playing the modern brand of cricket, Misbah chose to go backwards or "traditional" in an era of flatter wickets and is no why Pakistan is still lagging behind.

PSL has given the platform for the finds of Fakhar, Hasan Ali, Shadab, Sharjeel, Shaheen, Asif Ali et al where they wouldn't have got the same recognition playing the other domestic t20 tournament(s) because they are of lower quality (more teams = diluting average talent pool) and poor televised coverage.

But the PSL isn't going to be the finished article until it is moved out of the UAE, where trundlers can survive (and in some cases thrive) since they can exploit slowest decks in the planet on large sized grounds. But as we saw in the latter stages of the tournament in Pakistan, they found it tough going. Rumman Raees is a PSL product who also performed very well on a slow tacky Cardiff wicket in last year's semi but when he went to NZ on faster wickets with smaller grounds he was given a pasting.

Pakistani batsmen will continue to be much inferior to their AUS, NZ, Eng, Ind and SA counterparts if they are going to play their LOIs and PSL in UAE because they will struggle to adapt to the faster wickets and this was also evident in NZ. IF the whole PSL was played in Pakistan I'm sure this will filter batsmen and bowlers who are equipped to play in all conditions; 130 click trundlers who can bowl in UAE but can't bowl in Pakistan on faster decks + smaller grounds and the batsmen who can genuinely play 140+ bowling and not just thrive on slower wickets against slower bowlers.
 
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One thing I will say about this unit is that the stabdard of fielding is probably the best I have ever seen.

In the past Pakistan had 2 or 3 good fielders, 6 or 7 decent fielders and a couple of guys who the captain had to hide in the field, but this group of players have an abundance of talent when it comes to fielding with very few poor fielders.
 
Too early to say yet.

Individually it might not be, but the way the team plays as a collective means they are right up there (compared to previous teams). In other words: the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Genuinely excited by the potential of this team.
 
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