Yasir Shah - The UAE Bully? A look at the numbers

[Hawkeye]

The numbers are out.

Overall average: 29

Average in England/Australia/New Zealand: 48..approaching 50. Strike rate 82+, i.e. he has a chance of getting a wicket after giving 80 plus runs.

What's your verdict? Did he cause any real trouble in these countries? Were some wickets that he got in England mostly gifted by the batsmen?

Can we expect some magic if it isn't a 4th/5th day Dubai turner?

 

[itsme]

We all know who is the uae's bully and it's not yasir.

 

[Hawkeye]

We all know who is the uae's bully and it's not yasir.

But the facts say he perhaps is. Just laying out info in front of ya.

 

[Asim2Good]

when u don't turn that much.
googly is not there , flipper is not there.
then u going to struggle on green wickets or flat roads

 

[Sin Nombre]

His wickets in the 2 last couple of series are similar to the ones Adil Rashid got in India.

Both leak runs and provide no control to the captain.

Yasir might however win you one match in 10 in these conditions. But leak enough runs in the others to put you under severe pressure. Is that worth a guaranteed place in the xi?

 

[Hawkeye]

when u don't turn that much.
googly is not there , flipper is not there.
then u going to struggle on green wickets or flat roads

I think most of the things come down to this.

He can't turn the ball much.

He doesn't have something you can confidently call a googly, or a flipper.

UAE pitches with huge roughs probably mask this.

 

[Solid Snake]

Yasir has done phenomenally for us in the last few years, and had notable performances in England as well (so by no means a UAE only bowler). So the expectation was high for our ANZ tour, and the results (thus far) have been disappointing.

Past couple of days PPers seem to be at a loss explaining his fall from grace. Number of overs bowled, return from injury, or poor captaincy and field settings are the reasons being trotted out (a sizeable chunk seem to put it down to the latter, which is the least convincing explanation as far as I'm concerned).

But I I think it's far simpler. Historically very few spinners have done well in Australia. These are Yasir's first tours of these countries, and where the likes of Murali, Swann and Kumble have failed, it is not unreasonable that he would struggle.

He needs to try his hardest to adapt his game, show his character and bounce back.

 

[Abdullah719]

His wickets in the 2 last couple of series are similar to the ones Adil Rashid got in India.

Both leak runs and provide no control to the captain.

Yasir might however win you one match in 10 in these conditions. But leak enough runs in the others to put you under severe pressure. Is that worth a guaranteed place in the xi?

This is really the first match where he's been smashed around recently. He went for quick runs in Manchester too but it wasn't quite as bad.

 

[Orange Tree]

He isn't a big spinner of the ball and lacks variations in his armory.

His only strength is that he has good control over his line and length.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yasir has done phenomenally for us in the last few years, and had notable performances in England as well (so by no means a UAE only bowler). So the expectation was high for our ANZ tour, and the results (thus far) have been disappointing.

Past couple of days PPers seem to be at a loss explaining his fall from grace. Number of overs bowled, return from injury, or poor captaincy and field settings are the reasons being trotted out (a sizeable chunk seem to put it down to the latter, which is the least convincing explanation as far as I'm concerned).

But I I think it's far simpler. Historically very few spinners have done well in Australia. These are Yasir's first tours of these countries, and where the likes of Murali, Swann and Kumble have failed, it is not unreasonable that he would struggle.

He needs to try his hardest to adapt his game, show his character and bounce back.

This is really the first match where he's been smashed around recently. He went for quick runs in Manchester too but it wasn't quite as bad.

One would usually agree with the argument that Australia is bad for spinners and he 'did well in England'.

But, he actually didn't.

Can you honestly say that with a straight face that he was good in England? He was manhandled in a few innings and got some wickets in the others. But, the way he got wickets wasn't convincing at all. I'd say batsmen errors.

Now, let's answer if he was great in England.

Averaged ~41 in England, at a strike rate of 75. How is that decent by any margin?

 

[FlickedOffHips]

It's one bad game bhai.




One bad game after another.

 

[Sachin136]

One would usually agree with the argument that Australia is bad for spinners and he 'did well in England'.

But, he actually didn't.

Can you honestly say that with a straight face that he was good in England? He was manhandled in a few innings and got some wickets in the others. But, the way he got wickets wasn't convincing at all. I'd say batsmen errors.

Now, let's answer if he was great in England.

Averaged ~41 in England, at a strike rate of 75. How is that decent by any margin?

He won 2 matches in England and failed in the other two. That should be considered a very good performance.

 

[Buffet]

Yasir doesn't have variations to check the runs if pitch is road with true bounce. He will leak too many runs on roads as compared to some one like Ashwin. Ashwin will also not be taking wickets, but it's harder to thrash him like Yasir due to variations. I guess, that's also the reason Yasir doesn't play in ODI.

As far as UAE bully etc is concerned, it doesn't make sense to tag players with such a low sample size. Aus is not an ideal place for visiting spinners. These kind of tags are only justified after 45-50 tests. Next match he should have more assistance from pitch and he should do better.

 

[Hawkeye]

He won 2 matches in England and failed in the other two. That should be considered a very good performance.

That's another way to look at things and you're not wrong either.

I'm not sure what argument is stronger.

 

[Solid Snake]

One would usually agree with the argument that Australia is bad for spinners and he 'did well in England'.

But, he actually didn't.

Can you honestly say that with a straight face that he was good in England? He was manhandled in a few innings and got some wickets in the others. But, the way he got wickets wasn't convincing at all. I'd say batsmen errors.

Now, let's answer if he was great in England.

Averaged ~41 in England, at a strike rate of 75. How is that decent by any margin?

I was very picky with my wording, I said he had notable performances . I do realise the England tour was a mixed bag.

I don't think it's fair to say when he did perform it was down to the batsmen making errors. You could always make that argument.

Would you expect an upcoming batsmen to be averaging 50+, scoring a couple of centuries on their first away tours to England, Australia and New Zealand? I think the same considerations should apply to Yasir. People expect him to just turn up and perform.

At the end of his career we'll probably be in a better position to declare wether he was any sort of bully or not.

 

[Solid Snake]

Yasir doesn't have variations to check the runs if pitch is road with true bounce. He will leak too many runs on roads as compared to some one like Ashwin. Ashwin will also not be taking wickets, but it's harder to thrash him like Yasir due to variations. I guess, that's also the reason Yasir doesn't play in ODI.

As far as UAE bully etc is concerned, it doesn't make sense to tag players with such a low sample size. Aus is not an ideal place for visiting spinners. These kind of tags are only justified after 45-50 tests. Next match he should have more assistance from pitch and he should do better.

Didn't see this before I posted, but essentially agree with the bolded.

 

[Abdullah719]

One would usually agree with the argument that Australia is bad for spinners and he 'did well in England'.

But, he actually didn't.

Can you honestly say that with a straight face that he was good in England? He was manhandled in a few innings and got some wickets in the others. But, the way he got wickets wasn't convincing at all. I'd say batsmen errors.

Now, let's answer if he was great in England.

Averaged ~41 in England, at a strike rate of 75. How is that decent by any margin?

That's decent because without him we'd have lost the series.

Look he needs to work on a few things for sure. It's a worry that Azhar looked more threatening than he did. But I'm not sure what you're getting at. You want to discard him after a couple of bad matches?

 

[Sin Nombre]

This is really the first match where he's been smashed around recently. He went for quick runs in Manchester too but it wasn't quite as bad.

1/266 @ 4.03 in Manchester, 2/232 @ 3.93 at Birmingham, 0/61 @ 4.51 at Christchurch in a low scoring match. Even Gabba was expensive with 3/174 at almost 3.3.

Only other test he played outside UAE in this sequence was Oval where he went wicketless @ 3.75 in the first innings.

Not as bad as MCG but it is also the flattest pitch of the lot. If my spinner is not taking wickets, I would at least hope to see him provide some control on the scoring rate by keeping his economy well below 3.

As a spinner in these conditions, has to be at least one of either low S/R or low economy.

 

[Sin Nombre]

He won 2 matches in England and failed in the other two. That should be considered a very good performance.

Younis and Sohail won the Oval test.

Yasir was hit around the park and went wicketless in the first innings and took wickets in the second with England choking under severe scoreboard pressure. Most decent to good spinners against a team like England would do that.

 

[Abdullah719]

1/266 @ 4.03 in Manchester, 2/232 @ 3.93 at Birmingham, 0/61 @ 4.51 at Christchurch in a low scoring match. Even Gabba was expensive with 3/174 at almost 3.3.

Only other test he played outside UAE in this sequence was Oval where he went wicketless @ 3.75 in the first innings.

Not as bad as MCG but it is also the flattest pitch of the lot. If my spinner is not taking wickets, I would at least hope to see him provide some control on the scoring rate by keeping his economy well below 3.

As a spinner in these conditions, has to be at least one of either low S/R or low economy.

The above examples you've mentioned are what usually happens when a leg-spinner doesn't get wickets. He will go for runs.

This match was the first time where he really lost the plot and was bowling some real rubbish. He did better on Day 4 but today Starc just had the freedom to play as he wanted and went after him.

 

[spade]

The numbers are out.

Overall average: 29

Average in England/Australia/New Zealand: 48..approaching 50. Strike rate 82+, i.e. he has a chance of getting a wicket after giving 80 plus runs.

What's your verdict? Did he cause any real trouble in these countries? Were some wickets that he got in England mostly gifted by the batsmen?

Can we expect some magic if it isn't a 4th/5th day Dubai turner?

Strike rate implies dismissal after certain number of balls, in his case its 80 balls.

 

[Rayyman]

Remember he is a leg spinner so he will go for runs, but also pick up wickets. Yasir is bowling mostly to left-handers which isn't easy. Warner always screws up bowler's run rates too.

 

[Sin Nombre]

The above examples you've mentioned are what usually happens when a leg-spinner doesn't get wickets. He will go for runs.

This match was the first time where he really lost the plot and was bowling some real rubbish. He did better on Day 4 but today Starc just had the freedom to play as he wanted and went after him.

I get that leggies will go for runs but then they are also supposed to take wickets at a low strike rate. Not 82.

Having one end leak runs also means the other end bowler cannot create any pressure at all.


Ideally, on these conditions, you go with a 3-man pace attack and one spinner who can maintain control and can take wickets given scoreboard pressure. Unfortunately, none of the Asian teams have 3 pacers who are good.

 

[Buffet]

Yasir was good in first test in Eng and Pakistan won the test due to him. But at the same token he was equally bad in the next two tests, and one the reasons for loss by Pakistan in those two tests. He gave 500+ runs for 4 wickets in 123 overs in those those two tests. That going 4+ an over for 123 overs.

I won't say that he won the last test. Match was won by team effort and he contributed in 2nd inning. He was hardly doing anything in 1st inning.

So it was a mixed tour of Eng but not a bad one. PPers are forgetting that leggies take some time to mature and I think posters were expecting too much from him. He has surely bowled poorly in this match, but he was not bowling bad in previous match. Best pitch is the last pitch for him so I will surely play him there. It will be idiotic to not play him there.

Forget about everything. How many matches Pakistan has won when Yasir didn't do well in recent times. I don't recall any, but some one can correct me. he is the only bowler capable of winning matches so any talk about not playing him in the last match should be seen from that perspective.

 

[PakLFC]

He seems ineffective in Australia as he was in New Zealand. Could be out of form or perhaps only suitable for UAE conditions. To be considered as being world class he has to perform in all conditions.

 

[Vivek_86]

He was as good in England as was Adil Rashid in India . Only difference Rashid couldn't win a match.

 

[Abdullah719]

Yasir was good in first test in Eng and Pakistan won the test due to him. But at the same token he was equally bad in the next two tests, and one the reasons for loss by Pakistan in those two tests. He gave 500+ runs for 4 wickets in 123 overs in those those two tests. That going 4+ an over for 123 overs.

I won't say that he won the last test. Match was won by team effort and he contributed in 2nd inning. He was hardly doing anything in 1st inning.

So it was a mixed tour of Eng but not a bad one. PPers are forgetting that leggies take some time to mature and I think posters were expecting too much from him. He has surely bowled poorly in this match, but he was not bowling bad in previous match. Best pitch is the last pitch for him so I will surely play him there. It will be idiotic to not play him there.

Forget about everything. How many matches Pakistan has won when Yasir didn't do well in recent times. I don't recall any, but some one can correct me. he is the only bowler capable of winning matches so any talk about not playing him in the last match should be seen from that perspective.

None.

 

[Abdullah719]

He was as good in England as was Adil Rashid in India . Only difference Rashid couldn't win a match.

I think that's quite a big difference.

 

[Buffet]

None.

So playing some one else is not going to help Pakistan win. Some one else may bowl a bit better, but you need bowlers who can run through sides. Yasir is the only one in recent times and he must play in the last match where surface will be more suitable for him. Sydney pitch has been turning recently so he may enjoy bowling it there.

 

[Buffet]

He was as good in England as was Adil Rashid in India . Only difference Rashid couldn't win a match.

That's not true. I saw both series. Rashid has less control and lots of wickets came when Indians were going after him. That was not the case for Yasir when he took wickets in Eng. Yasir had more control. It's just that Yasir doesn't have variety to check the runs if pitch is not assisting him.

 

[New Yorker]

The numbers are out.

Overall average: 29

Average in England/Australia/New Zealand: 48..approaching 50. Strike rate 82+, i.e. he has a chance of getting a wicket after giving 80 plus runs.

What's your verdict? Did he cause any real trouble in these countries? Were some wickets that he got in England mostly gifted by the batsmen?

Can we expect some magic if it isn't a 4th/5th day Dubai turner?

24 wickets in 3 Tests @ 19.33 in Sri Lanka.

So no, not a UAE bully.

He's Pakistan's MVP by some distance.

Yasir should not be asked to contain so that a couple of mediocre fast bowlers with an inability to take 5fers can 'attack.' It's the other way around.

He certainly needs to adapt. But he should be supported in that endeavour not thwarted relentlessly.

We may bemoan the ease with which he has apparently lost heart. But this is not a macho-contest.

It is the captain's job to the get the best out of his bowlers and Misbah et al have written a how NOT to manual on that in the space of a few Tests,

If bowling to X field is making the second fastest bowler to 100 Test wickets unravel, you change the bloody field.

 

[cric_fanatic]

I knew this would happen. Before all those comparisons with Ashwin and how Yasir is better.

Never jump the gun. Yasir doesnt have many variations. Had to be found out sooner or later.

 

[Smbhayi]

The numbers are out.

Overall average: 29

Average in England/Australia/New Zealand: 48..approaching 50. Strike rate 82+, i.e. he has a chance of getting a wicket after giving 80 plus runs.


What's your verdict? Did he cause any real trouble in these countries? Were some wickets that he got in England mostly gifted by the batsmen?

Can we expect some magic if it isn't a 4th/5th day Dubai turner?

isn't SR means how many balls per wicket, ie 80+ delivery for a wicket.

 

[joly]

the poor guy still is your best bowler by a country mile, give him decent support bowlers and he will do wonders

 

[in_cutter]

No bigger UAE bully than YK.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Like I have been saying for more than a year, tracks abroad are extremely hard for Asian spinners, specially when you have a rubbish pace attack that offers no support. Imagine coming out to bowl when the opposition is cruising along at 150/1, it is extremely hard.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Australian tours have wrecked havoc on the best of our legends, Yasir Shah will feel the pain of this tour and series as well.

 

[Speedster777]

Yasir Shah is spin version of Wahab. Brainless.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

The problem is just because Yasir racked up good stats in UAE, SL and Warne of all experts rated him highly expectations were really high.

He has bowled poorly but its his first tour, cut him some slack. If he does tour next time, he should really he's not that old. He will get better. The best part about Yasir is he has lot of heart, he will keep trying even if he is going for runs unlike other spinners who start darting in.

Also I guess maybe some fans are disappointed he didn't give them an opportunity to diss Ashwin's away performances

 

[AlphaFighter]

The problem is just because Yasir racked up good stats in UAE, SL and Warne of all experts rated him highly expectations were really high.

He has bowled poorly but its his first tour, cut him some slack. If he does tour next time, he should really he's not that old. He will get better. The best part about Yasir is he has lot of heart, he will keep trying even if he is going for runs unlike other spinners who start darting in.

Also I guess maybe some fans are disappointed he didn't give them an opportunity to diss Ashwin's away performances

Yasir looked jaded too me. He has bowled a lot of overs since the England series on wickets which have not been conducive to spin bowling at all. The workload adds up and takes a toll and continuously bowling on flat, unresponsive surfaces can take a toll on your confidence as well.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Pakistan haven't won a match since Yasir's debut in which Yasir hasn't bowled well.

UAE bully or not, we don't win unless he performs.

 

[SandyB]

Couple of points :

1. Yasir is no Warne ! Just because leg spinners have been so bad over the years since warnie left, the one guy who does reasonably well (very well in some occasions) is being hyped so high. Even by Warnie himself.. Like a lot of people are already talking about Ash being the next Murali ;/ . Those guys were absolute GOATS . We need to recalibrate our expectations about spinners...

2. Yasir being a leggie has a higher chance of succeeding in Aus/SA etc more than finger spinners. But a spinner can take wickets out there only if the other pacers/spinners are keeping the batsmen starved of runs. So they will be forced to attack Yasir.
I don't see a Jaddu in the PAK lineup giving the same level of support. A spinner can't be the Lead Wicket taker & Choke the runs simultaneously like they do in the Subcontinent. Its too much to ask.

 

[Bilal7]

Average of 20-odd in Sri Lanka. Two match-winning performances in England and has bowled well in at least one out of the two tests that he has played in Australia.

The best test spinner in the world.

 

[Titan of Technique]

Trivia : Only Kohli and Yasir have scored 3 double centuries in 2016

 

[Indiafan]

Average of 20-odd in Sri Lanka. Two match-winning performances in England and has bowled well in at least one out of the two tests that he has played in Australia.

The best test spinner in the world.

Ashwin averages 18 in Sri Lanka. He averages 33 in England while Yasir averages 40 despite having got 2 great spinning pitches which Ashwin never did. Wanna try again?

 

[Zak_Fan]

Ashwin averages 18 in Sri Lanka. He averages 33 in England while Yasir averages 40 despite having got 2 great spinning pitches which Ashwin never did. Wanna try again?

Oh come on bro, pitch had nothing to do with it. Only time pitches play a part is when Ashwin takes a 5'fer or Kohli scores a hundred.

 

[Mamoon]

He was never good enough to excel overseas without considerable assistance, the lack of variations have always been a concern for me.

He is accuracy is his biggest weapon, which means that the margin of error is low for him. If the batsman puts him off his length, he struggles. That is he has pretty much always struggled when the batsmen tried to attack him. These are simply, recognizable facts but of course people get offended when you point them out.

He was excellent at Lord's and The Oval but the pitch had enough assistance for his sliders to be effective and the English batsmen played them poorly - they kept hitting across the line to straight deliveries.

He was awful at Old Trafford and Edgbaston, and was the major reason why we lost both Tests. He wasn't able to grip the ball on those hard surfaces and got whacked.

He needs to learn how to decieve the batsman in the air. This is where the current Ashwin is well ahead of him. He is better than the 2014 version of Ashwin but not the Ashwin of today, which means that when he doesn't get assistance, not only does he struggle to take wickets but he can't bowl dry either.

However, with all said and done, for all his shortcomings, he is by far our best Test bowler because he can make hay when the sun shines unlike others.

As pointed out already, since his debut, we have pretty much failed to win every Test where he has been poor. It is a one-man attack with the rest making up numbers.

 

[geraltofrivia]

Ashwin averages 18 in Sri Lanka. He averages 33 in England while Yasir averages 40 despite having got 2 great spinning pitches which Ashwin never did. Wanna try again?

Also 54 in Oz and 19 in Bang compared to Yasir's 63 and 34. Ashwin has a better average than Yasir in EVERY country both of them have played in.

 

[JaDed]

Yasir's impact was more than Ash in England no doubt but i would blame Dhoni more for that.

Would wait till Paks tour of west indies to claim otherwise but Yasir is still ahead also the reason for Pakistan's #1 rank.

 

[SandyB]

Pakistan needs to develop another competent/good spinner or atleast a really good support bowler like Jaddu(he's much more now).
Otherwise you risk overbowling and running him to the ground.

 

[Bilal7]

Ashwin averages 18 in Sri Lanka. He averages 33 in England while Yasir averages 40 despite having got 2 great spinning pitches which Ashwin never did. Wanna try again?

Shah averages 19, despite getting zero support from his fellow spinners. Shah also won Pakistan two games in England and no, those were not subcontinent-type pitches but regular English pitches that you find there often during the summers.

Ashwin has had ZERO impact overseas. An average of 33 looks decent on the surface but if you actually saw him bowl, you'd know that he was harmless and had no impact on that series. Moeen Ali also schooled him and ended that series as the far better spinner.

I don't need to try again but Ashwin sure does. The only problem, is that he's getting old and I only see him depreciating from here on out.

 

[MRSN]

We all know who is the uae's bully and it's not yasir.

hehehe


The OP has forgot what a great series Yasir had in Sri Lanka and if it wasn't for him Misbah would have struggled to win the only one series outside UAE.

and if it wasn't for Yasir we would not have drawn the series against England.

NZ and Aus pitches are just not great for spinners so it's tough to expect too much from him but we needed a tidy off spinner who could bat but Misbah never in his life had such future insight. he never build any all rounder in all his six years tenure or an off spinner since Ajmal got banned.

Yasir Shah has fought the best he could. Still remember his knock against Aussies in the last game which almost had that record chase.

 

[MRSN]

Yasir's impact was more than Ash in England no doubt but i would blame Dhoni more for that.

Would wait till Paks tour of west indies to claim otherwise but Yasir is still ahead also the reason for Pakistan's #1 rank.

true. Yasir has 70% contribution in terms of bowling but in Ash's case he had a lot of support from Jadeja and other fast bowlers.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Get him his mentor back. Yasir doesn't seem someone who can produce a bowling strategy himself.

 

[Pete Rose]

I am not sure what the point of the thread is. A player has played most of his matches at home and has done well but is now struggling away? I don't know enough to say whether this is a permanent issue or a temporary one.

 

[Stark]

Yasir might however win you one match in 10 in these conditions. But leak enough runs in the others to put you under severe pressure. Is that worth a guaranteed place in the xi?

He def looks a genuine bet, esp when one thinks about the others who have plagued + sullied the scene

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Just shows how influential Mushtaq was behind Yasir's rise. Unfortunately, people only understand someone's value once they're gone.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Just shows how influential Mushtaq was behind Yasir's rise. Unfortunately, people only understand someone's value once they're gone.

Yasir was struggling in England to when Mushtaq was around. If anything, he has bowled an insane amount of overs since the England tour and the work load was going to catch up.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Yasir was struggling in England to when Mushtaq was around. If anything, he has bowled an insane amount of overs since the England tour and the work load was going to catch up.

Yasir won us Lord's and took a 5-fer at the Oval. Two poor games in-between mainly Misbah due to overbowling him and not taking any risks which are necessary on pitches with such true bounce. Instead of defending and holding an end, he should've been attacking relentlessly with a defensive field set. Unfortunately, he's had to bowl with a gutless, tactically inept, one-dimensional captain - a leggie's nightmare. Coming back to Mushtaq, regardless of Misbah's foolish field set, he kept Yasir mentally strong and had him bowl a tight line. He never broke down mentally like he did here.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Yasir's impact was more than Ash in England no doubt but i would blame Dhoni more for that.

Would wait till Paks tour of west indies to claim otherwise but Yasir is still ahead also the reason for Pakistan's #1 rank.

Yasir is no UAE bully only. He can win you games anywhere in the world as long as he gets that slight turn and not too much bounce but can leak runs like crazy and lose you games when there is bounce and little assistance for spinners. The same trends of England are playing out here. He could do well in Sydney though (especially 2nd innings - first innings may be very hard).

With that being said, I don't know why you feel you can compare Yasir and Ash's impact in England. If anything, Ash picked up 3 wickets in Oval first innings where Yasir went wicketless. Yasir got a crack in Oval 2nd innings with pitch turning while Ash never got a crack at it. Nor did he get a crack in Lords.

Also in Aus 2014, you may not remember how valiantly Ash fought (despite not having the necessary guile) while our pacers were getting butchered from the other end. He missed out on Adelaide track and was all set to take a 7fer or 8fer in Sydney 2nd innings (took 4 out of 5 wickets bowling beautifully - that was the time he finally learnt how to flight it proper outside off).

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

^I mean Yasir was defo more impactful in Eng from a results point of view but I don't see a point in comparing those 2 players in England. Its apples to oranges comparison due to one bowling in just 2 innings while other bowling in 8 innings.

 

[JaDed]

Yasir is no UAE bully only. He can win you games anywhere in the world as long as he gets that slight turn and not too much bounce but can leak runs like crazy and lose you games when there is bounce and little assistance for spinners. The same trends of England are playing out here. He could do well in Sydney though (especially 2nd innings - first innings may be very hard).

With that being said, I don't know why you feel you can compare Yasir and Ash's impact in England. If anything, Ash picked up 3 wickets in Oval first innings where Yasir went wicketless. Yasir got a crack in Oval 2nd innings with pitch turning while Ash never got a crack at it. Nor did he get a crack in Lords.

Also in Aus 2014, you may not remember how valiantly Ash fought (despite not having the necessary guile) while our pacers were getting butchered from the other end. He missed out on Adelaide track and was all set to take a 7fer or 8fer in Sydney 2nd innings (took 4 out of 5 wickets bowling beautifully - that was the time he finally learnt how to flight it proper outside off).

It was in terms of impact as in result of the match eventhough it is team sport and I agree Ash defn leaks lesser runs compared to Yasir but feel the rhythm and match winning bowling of Ash was more in Asia than outside it which imo could be because the management that didn't let him play.

 

[Hawkeye]

That's decent because without him we'd have lost the series.

Look he needs to work on a few things for sure. It's a worry that Azhar looked more threatening than he did. But I'm not sure what you're getting at. You want to discard him after a couple of bad matches?

No, not implying that we throw him out.

But he should be used where he can be effective. It's suicidal and a waste of a spot if we play him on flat, bouncy, grassy, or seaming wickets.

isn't SR means how many balls per wicket, ie 80+ delivery for a wicket.

Yes, you're right.

 

[Hawkeye]

I am not sure what the point of the thread is. A player has played most of his matches at home and has done well but is now struggling away? I don't know enough to say whether this is a permanent issue or a temporary one.

Yeah, but you can tell and predict based on how he bowls and where his skills can be effective.

And those, sadly, are pitches that grip, stay low or uneven, and start breaking up considerably after a couple days. Very good on such surfaces.

 

[Pete Rose]

Yeah, but you can tell and predict based on how he bowls and where his skills can be effective.

And those, sadly, are pitches that grip, stay low or uneven, and start breaking up considerably after a couple days. Very good on such surfaces.

So that's a good thing, I am guessing....?

 

[Snow]

The way Starc went after him, he seems to really overrated here. He never looked like taking a wicket, worst leg spinner against Australia i have seen after Tahir. Kaneria, Kumble etc were way better against tougher team.

 

[Pete Rose]

The way Starc went after him, he seems to really overrated here. He never looked like taking a wicket, worst leg spinner against Australia i have seen after Tahir. Kaneria, Kumble etc were way better against tougher team.

Most spinners have been rubbish in Australia. Predictions of his mediocrity are as premature as those of his greatness. If Afridi has demolished kumble a few random times, that is not the way to judge kumbles career. This is yasir first year playing away from Asia. I would put it down to learning curve. Having said that, he does struggle a fair bit vs left handers.

 

[Pete Rose]

Yeah, but you can tell and predict based on how he bowls and where his skills can be effective.

And those, sadly, are pitches that grip, stay low or uneven, and start breaking up considerably after a couple days. Very good on such surfaces.

We have to make up our mind about how best to belittle the teams achievements. On the one hand the pitches at home are roads where out ftb batsmen flourish, on the other hand they are dangerous minefields breaking up on day 2 where our home track bully bowlers flourish.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

For places like New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, England you need spinners who have these qualities :

1. Impeccable control.

2. Sharp turn.

3. Varieties.


Who clicks your mind ?

1. Muttiah Muralitharan

2. Shane Warne

3. Stuart McGill.


Though Ravichandran Ashwin does not turn the ball viciously but he does get considerable turn. Mark my words pen it down Ashwin will make the above List and his overseas record will improve significantly provided he stays fit and remains focussed because He has all the tools in his armoury and is an intelligent indivisual and bowler.


I hope I am proven wrong but Yasir doesn't have the tools even if you give him Mike Brearly, Stephen Fleming or flamboyant McCullum as captain or Graem Smith or Dhoni or Cook.


1. Yasir is overweight and here and there he has back problem. If your back isn't 100 % you cannot have control on line and length plus you cannot extract your potential maximum turn.


2. Even at his physical best condition i.e back being in reasonable shape Yasir cannot turn/spin the ball appreciably on 90 % of surfaces he will come across in AUS, SA, NZ & ENG.


3. His wrong-one ie googly is quite benign.


4. He has a good zooter but he doesn't have a flipper in his armoury. Before shoulder injury Shane Warne took alot of wickets through his flipper.


5. Yasir doesn't mix up his available varieties efficiently. Say like Ashwin does.


Yasir will be and should be Pakistan's trump card in Pakistan, United Arab Emirates, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Srilanka and West Indies but in SA, ENG, AUS & NZ he will be our main weapon only at 5 - 10 % venues like the Lords asian like wicket. So he should play if his back is 100 %. Otherwise he should not be an automatic selection in the playing eleven.


It is very unfortunate that Usama Mir has got a serious back injury as he was the real deal. I do not dwell upon his numbers in domestic where he has played handful of matches that too mostly on green wickets for KRL. I have watched him live and I know what he is all about.


If he recovers fully than I expect him to bowl the way he previously did and than if we need a leggie he should be picked for places which don't suit Yasir. He would average around 30, 33 with the ball in those places in my opinion.

Otherwise we can select allrounder Shadab Khan who bowls quickish leg break but turns the ball more than Yasir but less than Usama and is a very good batsman and a brilliant fielder. To add to it the Mianwali born Pindi boy has excellent attitude and work ethics.

Than when we need two spinners ie in UAE than with Yasir 2nd spinner should be Asghar. While Nasir Awais, Junaid Ilyas (Offspinners) & Zafar Gohar should be in radar aswell. Zafar's disadvantages are short height and his action doesn't allow him to bowl closer to the wickets. But he does impart good revs on the ball. But I would still prefer Asghar over Zafar.


To summarise I will reiterate that stop assuming Yasir Shah as your main weapon in all conditions. I would love Mickey to stand for Usama (he rates highly) the way Woolmer took stance for Asif.

 

[Hasan123]

His lack of variety has come back to haunt him, relies on being accurate and darts the bowl too much. If he starts to flight the ball and can develop a googley/flipper he will be very good in overseas conditions

 

[The intelligent Supporter]

Hey I love his flick to pacers . I'll keep him for his batting

Jk.

He needs a good captain and some confidence and I still think he can run through aussies at Sydney.. has been bad so far though