'You have enjoyed all the liberty that you wanted to,' DG ISPR tells PTM leadership

[Abdullah719]

Director General of Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor on Monday said that the Pakistan Army wanted to make every effort to resolve the issues faced by Pashtuns in tribals areas, but that the manner adopted by the Pashtun Tahafuz Movement (PTM) to voice such grievances would no longer be tolerated.

Addressing a wide-ranging press conference at the General Headquarters in which he talked about the recent tensions with Indian and issues of national security, the head of the military's media wing also suggested that the PTM had received funding from Afghan and Indian intelligence services.

"We want to do everything for the people [of tribal areas], but those who are playing in the hands of people, their time is up. Their time is up," Maj Gen Ghafoor said, referring to the PTM.

"But the instructions of the army chief will be fully followed. People will not face any sort of problem and neither will any unlawful path be adopted," he said, suggesting possible action the PTM. "Everything will be done lawfully."

"You have enjoyed all the liberty that you wanted to," he said, addressing the PTM leadership.

The ISPR chief individually responded to the demands made by the PTM at its rallies and meetings.

"When we took action against the TLP (Tehreek-i-Labbaik Pakistan), people said that why is action not taken against PTM as they speak up too much as well.

"The first person to engage with them [PTM] was me. I was told to engage with them by the army chief and I was given one order by the army chief: 'Do not use a harsh hand with them.'

"I met with [PTM leader] Mohsin Dawar, and they had three demands: They said that mines and unexploded bombs still exist [in tribal areas] [...] Their demand was genuine, we created 48 teams and 45 per cent of these areas were cleared. [As many as] 101 casualties of the Pakistan Army also occurred in those areas while clearing them of those mines. We let those casualties happen as they happened in the line of duty.

"Their [PTM's] next demand was about clearing away checkposts. Pak Army has lost thousands of soldiers at these checkposts.

"[The issue of] missing persons were their third demand [and] they created a list of those missing persons. The list has shortened to 2,500 cases today and the [missing persons] commission is working day and night to resolve those cases.

"These demands were not even their [PTM's] demands, the demands are of the people that live there.

"On the PTM website, they have got a number that states the amount of funds they have collected from Pashtuns around the world. But tell us how much money did you get from the NDS (Afghan National Directorate of Security) to run your campaign? How much money did RAW (India's Research and Analysis Wing) give you for the first dharna in Islamabad?

"[Superintendent of Police] Tahir Dawar is killed in Afghanistan, in what capacity did PTM talk to the Afghan government, and say that the [Pakistani] government should not be handed the body and the body should only be given to the Dawar tribe?

"Why did NDS give you funds for Arman Loni’s funeral and the dharna that followed? If you have these funds, why do you not use these funds for the development?

"When Arman Loni died, funeral prayers were offered for him in Afghanistan. But how is it that when 10 policemen lost their lives trying to protect 800 students giving police entry exams [in Balochistan], you did not go to the namaz-i-janaza for those 10 men. And no namaz-i-janaza was held for those 10 men in Afghanistan.

"When Loni died, the Afghan prime minister gave a statement in his favour and you [PTM] endorsed it.

"Those people who are playing with the people whose issues they have brought forward, I would like to tell them that their time is up. Their time is up.

"I would like to ask the PTM to provide me another list, besides the one of the missing persons, of all the strength of the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) that exists in Afghanistan, so that I could tally the two to see if any of the missing persons are actually sitting there.

He then delivered a message in Pushto to the Pushto-speaking people, urging them to not be deceived by the people functioning against Pakistan's interests.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1479183/y...at-you-wanted-to-dg-ispr-tells-ptm-leadership

 

[Pete Rose]

Message is right messenger is wrong. This is not an ISPR issue, it should come from the government

 

[the Great Khan]

Phainty coming towards the PTM..their time is up..a narrative will now be built up against them and when the time is right they will be snuffed out

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

Message is right messenger is wrong. This is not an ISPR issue, it should come from the government

Is there a difference?

 

[Mamoon]

Message is right messenger is wrong. This is not an ISPR issue, it should come from the government

They are the government.

 

[saeed5646]

excellent decision .PTM times is up

 

[Pete Rose]

Phainty coming towards the PTM..their time is up..a narrative will now be built up against them and when the time is right they will be snuffed out

But you see the true victims of hayatabad with whom the PTM sympathize are the poor people holed up fighting the government forces in a 15 hour gun battle.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Well Imran Khan wanted to do the dialogues with taliban militia but they can't do with unarmed political peoples.

 

[WebGuru]

PTM tabah de...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DGISPR?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DGISPR</a> Major General Asif Ghafoor (<a href="https://twitter.com/peaceforchange?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@peaceforchange</a>) with some tough questions for the PTM leadership about their sources of funding. <a href="https://t.co/eNz3YfF2Dt">pic.twitter.com/eNz3YfF2Dt</a></p>— Ali Salman Alvi (@alisalmanalvi) <a href="https://twitter.com/alisalmanalvi/status/1122827574105841666?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 29, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Bewal Express]

Well Imran Khan wanted to do the dialogues with taliban militia but they can't do with unarmed political peoples.

From what the DG ISPR said, they have and met their legitimate concerns. I don't think the ISI have been sitting on their backside, they can see who is behind them more recently.

 

[WebGuru]

Poor PPP trolled by ISPR
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">ایک پارٹی پی ٹی ایم کو سپورٹ کر رہی ہے ،بچہ تو راؤانوار ان کا تھا ، ڈی جی آئی ایس پی آر</p>— Geo News Urdu (@geonews_urdu) <a href="https://twitter.com/geonews_urdu/status/1122825290458304512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 29, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Loralai]

Anti Pakistan forces like the Pakistan Army must understand that this will not win them any support amongst communities which they have spent last seventy years marginalising. PTM demands are completely valid and everything has been done by deep state to prevent this group from gaining popularity but they must understand that it is not their place to interfere amongst a peoples movement.

Questions about funding are almost hilarious if they weren't serious. Why doesn't Pak army give a breakdown of how its own wealth is stored and about their various business interests?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Another day, another smokescreen. I'm keeping the count here.

 

[Pete Rose]

Anti Pakistan forces like the Pakistan Army must understand that this will not win them any support amongst communities which they have spent last seventy years marginalising. PTM demands are completely valid and everything has been done by deep state to prevent this group from gaining popularity but they must understand that it is not their place to interfere amongst a peoples movement.

Questions about funding are almost hilarious if they weren't serious. Why doesn't Pak army give a breakdown of how its own wealth is stored and about their various business interests?

Did you watch the press briefing?

 

[Bewal Express]

Anti Pakistan forces like the Pakistan Army must understand that this will not win them any support amongst communities which they have spent last seventy years marginalising. PTM demands are completely valid and everything has been done by deep state to prevent this group from gaining popularity but they must understand that it is not their place to interfere amongst a peoples movement.

Questions about funding are almost hilarious if they weren't serious. Why doesn't Pak army give a breakdown of how its own wealth is stored and about their various business interests?

Who funds them and why?

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Who funds them and why?

Everything is old except the target. I don't know who wrote this script but so far it is working.
In late 50s against baloch peoples.
In mid 60s against urdu speakings in Karachi & Hyderabad.
In late 60s & early 70s against east Pakistanis.
In mid 70s against baloch peoples.
From 85 to 99 against urdu speakings in sindh.
Since mid 2000 to till date against baloch.
& since mid 2000 to till date against pashtoons on the name of taliban.

Let see when these sons of soil will start their adventures against pashtoons or PTM.

Stage 1: a strong media campaign will be run by establishment paid channels (ARY, Express, Samaa and BOL), against PTM.
Social media will also become active to show the nation that PTMs people are the biggest traitors.

Stage 2: evidences of funding, maps of liberation, and Indian & American weapons will be recovered. Pictures & videos will also be shown where PTM leaders will be meeting with Indian American & afghan officials.

Stage 3: killing (sorry removal of traitors) will be start.

Stage 4: Havoc will be handover to the political peoples to take out the state from chaos.

Media will pay tribute to the army by singing

Ham laaye hain toofaan se kashti nikaal ke
Iss deis ko rakhana mere bachchon sambhaal ke

 

[Bewal Express]

Everything is old except the target. I don't know who wrote this script but so far it is working.
In late 50s against baloch peoples.
In mid 60s against urdu speakings in Karachi & Hyderabad.
In late 60s & early 70s against east Pakistanis.
In mid 70s against baloch peoples.
From 85 to 99 against urdu speakings in sindh.
Since mid 2000 to till date against baloch.
& since mid 2000 to till date against pashtoons on the name of taliban.

Let see when these sons of soil will start their adventures against pashtoons or PTM.

Stage 1: a strong media campaign will be run by establishment paid channels (ARY, Express, Samaa and BOL), against PTM.
Social media will also become active to show the nation that PTMs people are the biggest traitors.

Stage 2: evidences of funding, maps of liberation, and Indian & American weapons will be recovered. Pictures & videos will also be shown where PTM leaders will be meeting with Indian American & afghan officials.

Stage 3: killing (sorry removal of traitors) will be start.

Stage 4: Havoc will be handover to the political peoples to take out the state from chaos.

Media will pay tribute to the army by singing

Ham laaye hain toofaan se kashti nikaal ke
Iss deis ko rakhana mere bachchon sambhaal ke

But you didn't answer the question, who funds them and why?

 

[cricketjoshila]

But you didn't answer the question, who funds them and why?

Why is the source of funding important?

 

[King-Misbah]

Why is the source of funding important?

Because dirty Indian involvement will be shown. Stay clear off our country.

 

[gazza619]

Message is right messenger is wrong. This is not an ISPR issue, it should come from the government

I guess it is a sensitive issue and the role of good cop and bad cop need to be played wisely.

PTM sees army as their enemy so it would only make sense for Army to play the bad cop.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Why is the source of funding important?

I thought that you only comments in those threads where India & Indian affairs involved & your presence in this thread proved this.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Because dirty Indian involvement will be shown. Stay clear off our country.

Why is this not applicable in case of Pakistan funding Kashmiris againist India?

 

[Pete Rose]

I guess it is a sensitive issue and the role of good cop and bad cop need to be played wisely.

PTM sees army as their enemy so it would only make sense for Army to play the bad cop.

Could be. I suppose the only reason why the ISPR got involved was to ensure they hear it right from the horses mouth.

 

[Sirris]

Everything is old except the target. I don't know who wrote this script but so far it is working.
In late 50s against baloch peoples.
In mid 60s against urdu speakings in Karachi & Hyderabad.
In late 60s & early 70s against east Pakistanis.
In mid 70s against baloch peoples.
From 85 to 99 against urdu speakings in sindh.
Since mid 2000 to till date against baloch.
& since mid 2000 to till date against pashtoons on the name of taliban.

Let see when these sons of soil will start their adventures against pashtoons or PTM.

Stage 1: a strong media campaign will be run by establishment paid channels (ARY, Express, Samaa and BOL), against PTM.
Social media will also become active to show the nation that PTMs people are the biggest traitors.

Stage 2: evidences of funding, maps of liberation, and Indian & American weapons will be recovered. Pictures & videos will also be shown where PTM leaders will be meeting with Indian American & afghan officials.

Stage 3: killing (sorry removal of traitors) will be start.

Stage 4: Havoc will be handover to the political peoples to take out the state from chaos.

Media will pay tribute to the army by singing

Ham laaye hain toofaan se kashti nikaal ke
Iss deis ko rakhana mere bachchon sambhaal ke

I don't know much about the earlier conflicts but I am very well informed about the FATA conflict which started in late 2003. You criminally miss-characterize it as a planned targeting of Pashtoon people with the pretext of fighting Taliban.

The established facts are that after US invasion of Afghanistan the Wazir and Mehsud tribe of 'brave' Pashtoon people in FATA gave shelter and protection to many fighters from Afghanistan. The most notorious and mischievous among them was the then leader of Islamic movement of Uzbekistan: Tahir Yuldashev. Who was referred to as "Qari Tahir Jan" by the locals out of respect and love.

The Uzbek fighters alone numbered 1000s. Then you had the Chechens, the Arabs and many other from around the world including a handful of German nationals.

I am convinced the government of time and the army didn't handle the situation well and in their arrogance and eagerness to please the USA they used too much brute force. However the brave, courageous and honorable Pashtoon tribesmen weren't going to give up their guests just by saying pretty please.

So I ask you how you would have written the script differently. How would you have handled this problematic? Where were the sane people of PTM around that time and why didn't they help meditate the issue?

Though the most important and relevant question would be do the leaders of PTM acknowledge that mistakes were made by the tribesmen, who gave shelter to a group of people and later supported them military which led to the wave of terrorism Pakistan is still trying to recover from.

 

[Pete Rose]

Why is this not applicable in case of Pakistan funding Kashmiris againist India?

It should be. But it’s an argument that Pakistan state will not make.
A state can be a victim of and a perpetrator of foreign funding.
Pakistan can support/fund Kashimiri movement but won’t like it when some balochis or Pashtuns get outside help.
Similarly India can be sympathetic to these movements in Pakistan but not like it if outside help is offered to Maoist’s Naxalites or Kashmiris.
It can seem like hypocrisy or national security policy Depending on one’s point of view

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

I don't know much about the earlier conflicts but I am very well informed about the FATA conflict which started in late 2003. You criminally miss-characterize it as a planned targeting of Pashtoon people with the pretext of fighting Taliban.

The established facts are that after US invasion of Afghanistan the Wazir and Mehsud tribe of 'brave' Pashtoon people in FATA gave shelter and protection to many fighters from Afghanistan. The most notorious and mischievous among them was the then leader of Islamic movement of Uzbekistan: Tahir Yuldashev. Who was referred to as "Qari Tahir Jan" by the locals out of respect and love.

The Uzbek fighters alone numbered 1000s. Then you had the Chechens, the Arabs and many other from around the world including a handful of German nationals.

I am convinced the government of time and the army didn't handle the situation well and in their arrogance and eagerness to please the USA they used too much brute force. However the brave, courageous and honorable Pashtoon tribesmen weren't going to give up their guests just by saying pretty please.

So I ask you how you would have written the script differently. How would you have handled this problematic? Where were the sane people of PTM around that time and why didn't they help meditate the issue?

Though the most important and relevant question would be do the leaders of PTM acknowledge that mistakes were made by the tribesmen, who gave shelter to a group of people and later supported them military which led to the wave of terrorism Pakistan is still trying to recover from.

Only dialogue is the solution. PTM's prespective regarding the operation against Taliban is entirely different. They termed this as killing of pashtoons & IMO they are on right to some extent.

It was pashtoon who was killed either he was fighting in favor of America/Pakistan or fighting against them in this dirty war of 20 years.

 

[Sirris]

Only dialogue is the solution. PTM's prespective regarding the operation against Taliban is entirely different. They termed this as killing of pashtoons & IMO they are on right to some extent.

It was pashtoon who was killed either he was fighting in favor of America/Pakistan or fighting against them in this dirty war of 20 years.

You failed to answer any of my questions properly. Please elobrate how the dialog was supposed to look like. As a non-pashtoon this is all i can imagine.

"Salam, Wazir worora"
"Salam worora"
"Wazir worora, hand over Tahir who is an internationally wanted terrorist and is residing in Pakistani territory illegally. Dera manana"
"Ta su beghairat Punjabi. Da Uzbek zamur da mahmoon. No can do, he is our guest. Da Ghairtmand Pashtoon yam. Pashtunwali, Pashtunwali, Pashtunwali..."

More insight from those more familiar with the local costume and culture would be helpful.

People of all ethnicites have been and are being killed in the war. Be it fighting against or with the Americans. In terms of numbers, the most effected group most certainly are Pashtoons but that's most probably due to geographical coincidence and to some extent the part of Pashtoon culture, which glorifies fighting for a (misguided) sense of honor, rather than a specific campaign to target Pashtoon people.

There are probably many just demands but I don't trust PTM's due to their unwillingness to acknowledge and hold responsible the elements among them which were part of the trouble and their policy to see everything through the lense of ethnicity. When will they be grown-ups and accept responsibility for the actions of their own fellow tribesmen instead of blaming others for manipulating them.

Pashtoon people might have certain positive qualities but their hyper-nationalistic approach to everything makes me despise them and more importantly it's what is a true hindrance in their progress.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It should be. But it’s an argument that Pakistan state will not make.
A state can be a victim of and a perpetrator of foreign funding.
Pakistan can support/fund Kashimiri movement but won’t like it when some balochis or Pashtuns get outside help.
Similarly India can be sympathetic to these movements in Pakistan but not like it if outside help is offered to Maoist’s Naxalites or Kashmiris.
It can seem like hypocrisy or national security policy Depending on one’s point of view

AFAIK indian support is to the Afghan govt. They in turn may be supporting the PTM.

Since Pakistan started this support to proxy groups in 80s, may be they can back off.

 

[Madplayer]

Why is this not applicable in case of Pakistan funding Kashmiris againist India?

Kashmir is a UN recognised problem. Go cry to the UN and dont bring Kashmir in this thread. Its not relevant here.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

You failed to answer any of my questions properly. Please elobrate how the dialog was supposed to look like. As a non-pashtoon this is all i can imagine.

"Salam, Wazir worora"
"Salam worora"
"Wazir worora, hand over Tahir who is an internationally wanted terrorist and is residing in Pakistani territory illegally. Dera manana"
"Ta su beghairat Punjabi. Da Uzbek zamur da mahmoon. No can do, he is our guest. Da Ghairtmand Pashtoon yam. Pashtunwali, Pashtunwali, Pashtunwali..."

More insight from those more familiar with the local costume and culture would be helpful.

People of all ethnicites have been and are being killed in the war. Be it fighting against or with the Americans. In terms of numbers, the most effected group most certainly are Pashtoons but that's most probably due to geographical coincidence and to some extent the part of Pashtoon culture, which glorifies fighting for a (misguided) sense of honor, rather than a specific campaign to target Pashtoon people.

There are probably many just demands but I don't trust PTM's due to their unwillingness to acknowledge and hold responsible the elements among them which were part of the trouble and their policy to see everything through the lense of ethnicity. When will they be grown-ups and accept responsibility for the actions of their own fellow tribesmen instead of blaming others for manipulating them.

Pashtoon people might have certain positive qualities but their hyper-nationalistic approach to everything makes me despise them and more importantly it's what is a true hindrance in their progress.

Do you think that pashtoons were responsible for the movement of alqaida and taliban peoples from Afghanistan into Pakistan?

You have to believe on my words to understand it further "terrorists were not there just because the cultural & traditional norms of tribes in fact they were there because establishment wanted them to take shelter".

Let's start it from the day 1st. America attacked Afghanistan & their strategy was different from Russia. They used northern alliance & other anti-taliban groups as front line force and keep its own & NATO army as second line & supportive force. When the war started Pakistan played the double role their. They officially allied with America & unofficially their plan was to dump America in Afghanistan. When the war started Pakistan intentionally kept it's 2450 km border open for the terrorists to take shelter as they will be used in gorilla war against America. From high profiles like OBL & Mullah Omer to an unknown gorilla anyone can move to Pakistan. Establishment made this possible to hide them in border & tribal areas as they shared the similar culture. If this wouldn't been the case then how the hell they shifted in Pakistan in an uncountable number.

Look tribal areas are not the west/America where if you find someone suspicious, you go to police, launch a complain and leave the rest on police (from your security to action against criminal). In tribal areas if someone even think to raised his voice, his entire family would have beheaded. Now tell me where these people could have gone. The security establishment which was supposed to save them were push them in hell. It wasn't their fault that their home land was made a battle ground. In order to kill a single terrorist the entire village bombed. America was too doing its drone strikes. Nothing was happening there except killing.

Another PTMs concern is the behavior of security forces. Only the peoples of small provinces knows how disrespectful & rude our security personnels are, specifically where there is an operation going. You may see this on youtube. Though it has changed a lot during Qamar bajwa tenure but it was horrible earlier than that.

Let's say it wasn't the case then why the army did not sealed the border as it was written on the wall that taliban will disappear and Pakistani border areas will be their dream hideouts. Why didn't they took the measures too keep them away from Pakistan.

Till the attack on APS all the operations which carried out were rather soft or the failed. Instead I remember till 2010 they were busy in doing treatise and pacts with terrorists.

One more thing, after the murder of bugti the establishment played another dirty game. In around 2007-08 they settled afghan people of banned religious organizations and the hazara peoples in balochistan to change the provincial demographics. This led the province to the religious terrorism which never have had happened in past.

 

[Pete Rose]

Since Pakistan started this support to proxy groups in 80s, may be they can back off.

There’s a lot academic literature out there that says once proxy wars start, they are very difficult to reign in.

 

[the Great Khan]

Anti Pakistan forces like the Pakistan Army must understand that this will not win them any support amongst communities which they have spent last seventy years marginalising. PTM demands are completely valid and everything has been done by deep state to prevent this group from gaining popularity but they must understand that it is not their place to interfere amongst a peoples movement.

Questions about funding are almost hilarious if they weren't serious. Why doesn't Pak army give a breakdown of how its own wealth is stored and about their various business interests?

who funds the PTM? they need to answer the questions posed to them. the only anti state elements are those that seek to destroy the country through subterfuge. Your constant support for such groups betrays your own agenda here..

 

[the Great Khan]

AFAIK indian support is to the Afghan govt. They in turn may be supporting the PTM.

Since Pakistan started this support to proxy groups in 80s, may be they can back off.

The indian govt has supported terror in pakistan from the 1950's onwards...

 

[WebGuru]

Govt and Army tried to convince these traitors to come on table and talk but they refused and well they will never do it otherwise their sponsors will not be happy. These same PTM guys were supporters of Drone attacks and later become anti drone lol. Btw where was PTM when PA was fighting the terrorists in FATA for 15 years?

 

[King-Misbah]

Govt and Army tried to convince these traitors to come on table and talk but they refused and well they will never do it otherwise their sponsors will not be happy. These same PTM guys were supporters of Drone attacks and later become anti drone lol. Btw where was PTM when PA was fighting the terrorists in FATA for 15 years?

Manzoor pashteen was in nappies then; would not hold it against him.

 

[Bewal Express]

PK govt must deal with legit grievances but this seems to be using be nothing more than another TTP, or am i being too harsh.

 

[the Great Khan]

PK govt must deal with legit grievances but this seems to be using be nothing more than another TTP, or am i being too harsh.

no..they are another element of the ongoing war..they must be dealt with in the harshest manner possible..they are trying to create a pashtun MQM..

 

[Sirris]

Do you think that pashtoons were responsible for the movement of alqaida and taliban peoples from Afghanistan into Pakistan?

You have to believe on my words to understand it further "terrorists were not there just because the cultural & traditional norms of tribes in fact they were there because establishment wanted them to take shelter".

Let's start it from the day 1st. America attacked Afghanistan & their strategy was different from Russia. They used northern alliance & other anti-taliban groups as front line force and keep its own & NATO army as second line & supportive force. When the war started Pakistan played the double role their. They officially allied with America & unofficially their plan was to dump America in Afghanistan. When the war started Pakistan intentionally kept it's 2450 km border open for the terrorists to take shelter as they will be used in gorilla war against America. From high profiles like OBL & Mullah Omer to an unknown gorilla anyone can move to Pakistan. Establishment made this possible to hide them in border & tribal areas as they shared the similar culture. If this wouldn't been the case then how the hell they shifted in Pakistan in an uncountable number.

Look tribal areas are not the west/America where if you find someone suspicious, you go to police, launch a complain and leave the rest on police (from your security to action against criminal). In tribal areas if someone even think to raised his voice, his entire family would have beheaded. Now tell me where these people could have gone. The security establishment which was supposed to save them were push them in hell. It wasn't their fault that their home land was made a battle ground. In order to kill a single terrorist the entire village bombed. America was too doing its drone strikes. Nothing was happening there except killing.

Another PTMs concern is the behavior of security forces. Only the peoples of small provinces knows how disrespectful & rude our security personnels are, specifically where there is an operation going. You may see this on youtube. Though it has changed a lot during Qamar bajwa tenure but it was horrible earlier than that.

Let's say it wasn't the case then why the army did not sealed the border as it was written on the wall that taliban will disappear and Pakistani border areas will be their dream hideouts. Why didn't they took the measures too keep them away from Pakistan.

Till the attack on APS all the operations which carried out were rather soft or the failed. Instead I remember till 2010 they were busy in doing treatise and pacts with terrorists.

One more thing, after the murder of bugti the establishment played another dirty game. In around 2007-08 they settled afghan people of banned religious organizations and the hazara peoples in balochistan to change the provincial demographics. This led the province to the religious terrorism which never have had happened in past.

No, I don't think Pashtoons as a whole group and ethnicity were responsible for anything. I specifically mentioned the Wazir and Mehsud tribesmen of FATA. I am sure the average Pashtoon in Peshawar, Mardan and Swabi was equally unaware and uninvolved as an average Punjabi in Lahore, Multan and Sialkot, when the Wazir and Meshud elders decided to take in the Uzbeks around 2002.

My main disagreement with you is NOT on the issue of who are what circumstances caused the influx of foreign fighters into Waziristan area. I feel no reluctance to agree with you that the tribesmen weren't the sole responsible party and a fully functioning state should have proper border which prevent mischievous elements from entering in the first place. Responsibility doesn't have to fall on only one group, multiple parties can be responsible for one thing at the same time and have to bear equal blame.

I often think about the start of the conflict, before all the operations and the drone strikes and wonder what could have been done better. How one could have talked with and persuaded isolated and stubborn people, who prefer a self-constructed sense of honor to be intact, no matter the irrationality of their argument and point of view, than to think on their own feet albeit risking going against the self-constructed code of honor. My conclusion is that I know too little of the local costume to come up with a possible way out, which doesn't ultimately lead to fighting. Perhaps the Pakistani army had to be a bit more patient and were too quick and arrogant in their wish to make the tribesmen submit to their will. Which then only made the conflict blow out.

I could easily examine your arguments and get into the details of how and what led to the influx of foreign fighters. For example your remarks about the Afghan-Pak border being left intentionally open isn't quite honest since the border was never properly managed, controlled and close to begin with. At the same time I also admit the tribal people had been neglected by the rest of the country long before the start of the conflict. However I don't want to get into the details of the points you raised, since they merely are an attempt to duck any responsibility and thoroughly answering them doesn't contribute much to the issue at hand.

My main disagreement with you is how you deliberately and dishonestly or perhaps naively and ignorantly mischaracterized the FATA conflict of 2003 as a pre-planned and pre-scripted event with the sole purpose of hurting Pashtoon people. Therefore, I mentioned the sheltering of Uzbek fighters by the local tribesmen as a mean to highlight that there indeed were highly problematic elements and conscious decision taken by the local population, which led to the birth of the decade long conflict.

The message I want to convey is that despite some of their just demands, PTM at best is only going to be able to attract like-minded, ignorant people who are easily fooled and manipulated by calls of Pashtoon ghairat and nationalism. In my view the only reason someone might deliberately mischaracterize the conflict as a targeting of Pashtoon is to gain cheap sympathy and easy support on the basis of ethnicity, when in reality it should be on the basis of how sound your arguments are and the validity of your position. The latter initially seems to be more difficult to do then the former, hence why PTM has chosen the easier route but that's on the cost of compromising the truth and will ultimately cause more harm than good.

My main point is that PTM has to gain the trust of an average citizen and in my eyes it can only be done by admitting faults and mistakes which led to bloody conflict and by calling out those internal elements and holding them accountable, instead of just ducking any responsibility, playing the victim card and making demands. You yourself admitted that expressing one's disapproval could have led to mass beheading so why not call out those elements and bring them to justice.

Both PTM and Pak army can't be supported on this conflict. Pak army too has countless dead bodies hidden in its closet. For instance since day one they have lied about the root cause of the FATA conflict and misled the public. Even today 95% of the people have no clue about the FATA conflict and origin of TTP and best they can think of is a RAW, CIA and Israeli conspiracy.

Despite being aware of all the wrongs I still don't feel convinced to give PTM my support. Look, if someone held a gun to my head and forced me to either chose between PTM and the Pak army's position on this matter, then I'd just let them shoot me.


PTM's inability to convince neutral person is a BIG issue and needs to be fixed otherwise that would be the true treachery to the blood of the innocents killed. I hope educated youth of FATA are smart enough to not fall for this and come up with a better alternative. I wish there was another way to support the innocent victims of this decade long conflict and to bring the brutalities of the army and other parties involved to justice.

 

[Loralai]

Maybe those asking who funds PTM should first look at behaviour of their beloved army in Pakistans history. It seems as if we have learnt nothing from East Pakistan debacle and from the treatment of people in Baluchistan.

Pashteen is a popular leader and he has energised masses who have been ruthlessly exploited by the deep state. Accept PTM is a reality and is here to stay.

 

[Bewal Express]

Maybe those asking who funds PTM should first look at behaviour of their beloved army in Pakistans history. It seems as if we have learnt nothing from East Pakistan debacle and from the treatment of people in Baluchistan.

Pashteen is a popular leader and he has energised masses who have been ruthlessly exploited by the deep state. Accept PTM is a reality and is here to stay.

So you are ok with RAW and Afghanistan agencies backing them with money? Wasn't Yadav found in Baluchistan? So it's clear where your sympathies lie.

 

[King-Misbah]

Maybe those asking who funds PTM should first look at behaviour of their beloved army in Pakistans history. It seems as if we have learnt nothing from East Pakistan debacle and from the treatment of people in Baluchistan.

Pashteen is a popular leader and he has energised masses who have been ruthlessly exploited by the deep state. Accept PTM is a reality and is here to stay.

Altaf Hussain was a popular leader too. The state is the state and if Pashteen is a threat to the state then he will have to face the consequences.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Anti Pakistan forces like the Pakistan Army must understand that this will not win them any support amongst communities which they have spent last seventy years marginalising. PTM demands are completely valid and everything has been done by deep state to prevent this group from gaining popularity but they must understand that it is not their place to interfere amongst a peoples movement.

Questions about funding are almost hilarious if they weren't serious. Why doesn't Pak army give a breakdown of how its own wealth is stored and about their various business interests?

what the hell is this ? if pak army is anti-pakistan thn whos gonna save your sorry @$$ from external/internal threats ? your daddy ?
you need to explain this if you didnt, i am gonna report you.

 

[Waseem]

It is unbelievable how viewpoint of people changes with time, just a reminder to those supporting PTM. Basically most of these people oppose Army no matter what they do (Similarly there are also some people who support Army no matter what they do).

Back in 2014, there was massive pressure on Army to launch operation in Waziristan. I can't be bothered but if we dig all the old threads, all these PTM sympathisers were accusing Army of PROTECTING Talibans hiding in North Waziristan. They were adamant that Army would never launch attack in North Waziristan,

One person who warned against attacking that region was Imran Khan and his view was that "You Never throw bombs on own people", it would be madness and last thing you need is patriotic tribals turning against own country. The geniuses back then called him Taliban Khan and they had no doubt that Taliban Khan wanted to protect terrorists hiding in Waziristan (Why would he want to protect them? apparently he was coward and they were all BRAVE). Just to remind one of top PTM leaders Mohsin dawar was biggest critic of fauj back then and his tweets are still available where he not only supported drone attacks on Pashtuns but criticised fauj for not launching an operation.

Finally the Zarb e Azb was launched and it took the fauj many years to clear the area resulting in thousands of sacrifices (fauj and civilians) and hundreds of thousands people made homeless. Was this an operation launched by Punjabi fauj against Pashtuns? Of course it wasn't.

In 2014 some University students formed Mehsud Tahaffuz movement for mainly mines related issues and was purely human rights centric (totally justified movement).

In 2018, Naqeebullah Mehsud was killed in Karachi (fake encounter by Rao Anwaar). It wasn't the first fake encounter, hundreds such encounters happen all around Pakistan and we all took part in movement for justice. At this stage Mehsud Tahaffuz movement became Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement and they joined protests against Naqeebullah's murder. It is common knowledge Rao Anwaar worked for Zardari who openly called him his Bahadur bacha so once again this murder had nothing to do with Punjabi vs Pashtuns.

Now this PTM started organising more and more protests and everyone supported their basic demands like mines, checkposts etc but we witnessed at PTM was shameless propaganda which turned them into extremely dodgy and sponsored movement. Their whole leadership was more busy abusing the fauj and in particular calling them Punjabi fauj. Of course all Punjabis were abused and insulted in their jalsas turning it a racial issue (name change to "Pashtun" Tahaffuz movement was obviously done to gain wider support from Pasthuns).

PTM enjoys lot of support from people who genuinely suffered so it's not a surprise but it is crystal clear that movement has been hijacked by likes of Mohsin Dawar, Manzoor Mehsud, Ali Wazir etc.

- Should those people who abused Army for NOT lunching the attack be abusing them for launching the attack??

- Should this movement be called Pashtuns Tahaffuz Movement given that Pashtuns are actually more in power than ever before in history? Was it area specific issue or race specific issue?

- Whole PTM leadership supports Afghani point of view rather than their own government. Mohsin Dawar thanked Afghan President for his comments on Pakistani issues but heavily criticised his own PM for talking about Afghan issues.

- Why did PTM leadership visit relatives of terrorists killed in recent Hayatabad operation?

Forget all the funding accusations, it was very clear what PTM were trying to achieve and it was nothing but anarchy. Their genuine demands had been acknowledged by Army Chief, Imran Khan, Bilawal, Nawaz Sharif etc and a lot of work has been done but continuous abuse of Army suggests their motives are different. They have even encouraged Army officers for mutiny and threatened to killed Army generals (PEACEFUL ORGANISATION).

 

[Waseem]

Sorry for a long post but i just wanted to remind how things progressed over the years and missed this bit.

After clearing the area, Army has built huge amount of infrastructure in Waziristan and around 100 officers lost their lives just while clearing landmines. A lot of missing persons aren't necessarily picked up for being Pashtuns, many were facilitators of terrorists and a lot of them were actively involved in insurgency as well.

Current government has started huge infrastructure development and PM himself has visited the region more than any other place in the country to announce these projects and developments as part of FATA-KPK merger. PTM and it's sponsors ANP & PKMAP never wanted KPK and FATA to be merged either.

 

[warcry]

Why is this not applicable in case of Pakistan funding Kashmiris againist India?

Kashmir is Disputed Territory. Indians have no right to Kashmir. This is reflected in your consititutions, Indians are not allowed to purchase property in J&K

The rest of pakistan is NOT disputed territory,and there lies the difference

 

[WebGuru]

Anti Pakistan forces like the Pakistan Army

Traitors like you don't deserve this country and i am saying this because i am from a Pak Army family and with your comment you insulted all our sacrifices so this deserve a harsh reply. We have given enough blood for this country and you thankless idiots are calling us Anti Pakistan. I am a Punjabi my family members fought against TTP to save Pashtoons because we are all Pakistanis we lost family members in this fight where was racist PTM and these clowns at that time?

For mods: his anti army and anti Pakistan comment stayed here for days I hope you will allow my comment to stay here too instead of removing it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kashmir is Disputed Territory. Indians have no right to Kashmir. This is reflected in your consititutions, Indians are not allowed to purchase property in J&K

The rest of pakistan is NOT disputed territory,and there lies the difference

Lol at Indians have no right in Kashmir. Its part of India. King of Kashmir aceded to India. It has special status under article 370. Thats all.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Lol at Indians have no right in Kashmir. Its part of India. King of Kashmir aceded to India. It has special status under article 370. Thats all.

Can you buy land in Kashmir? No you cannot and never will. Lmao

You are just a guest in Kashmir whenever you choose to visit.

 

[slipcatch]

Lol at Indians have no right in Kashmir. Its part of India. King of Kashmir aceded to India. It has special status under article 370. Thats all.

No country can own a land without locals willingness to be part of that country unless the occupying army kill every local.

 

[Mamoon]

We don't learn from history. We repeat the same mistakes over and over again but expect different results. Whenever someone - or a group of people - say things that we do not want to hear, all we have to do is to use buzzwords like "traitor" and play the "foreign funding" card, which is nothing but a vague cop-out.

It is easy to accuse our favourite bogeyman India as well as Afghanistan, but how are they funding PTM? What channel are they using to send money, and why is ISI not able to stop them in their tracks? Are they working on sourcing the funding and when can we expect them to come up with concrete evidence? Perhaps we expect too much from a remarkably incompetent intelligence agency that had no clue that the most wanted terrorist in the world was chilling half a mile away from a military base in Abbottabad.

It appears that no one has the guts to ask ISPR these tough questions and everyone is happy to stand in line like sheep and dismiss PTM and their intentions because of foreign funding.

Also, Imran's role in the last few days has been hysterical. Three days earlier, he stated that PTM's demands are legitimate, but the very next day, he took his trademark U-turn and asserted that they are a foreign funded propaganda. Looks like he got quite a mouthful from the higher powers for legitimising their demands. Or perhaps, it was just another "slip of tongue" - like the goof-ups in Iran and China.

 

[Mamoon]

The Pakistani Military’s Worst Nightmare Is Coming True

For decades, Pakistan’s powerful military has been in control of the country’s politics whether directly, as during several decades of military dictatorships, or indirectly, as during attempts by civilian leaders to reassert their authority in the 1970s, 1990s, and after 2008.

In their efforts to wrest control from the military, plenty of Pakistani politicians have been defeated and dismissed from office. So dire was their record that, at times, challenging the brass seemed like a fight not worth picking.


Manzoor Pashteen, a 26-year-old man from an impoverished tribal background, is rapidly becoming a symbol of resistance in a place where dissent is usually silenced as anti-state, anti-Islam, or a result of nefarious foreign influence.

Pashteen’s Pashtun Tahafuz Movement (PTM), or Pashtun Protection Movement, came to prominence in early 2018 in Waziristan, a remote outpost along Pakistan’s rugged border with Afghanistan. Although the grievances PTM tapped into—discrimination against tribal people, violence by the Taliban, and military presence in the area—were long-standing, the trigger for the group’s recent explosion was the extrajudicial killing of an aspiring model and artist from Waziristan in the city of Karachi in January 2018.

Despite a media blackout—the major news channels have refrained from covering PTM gatherings or running interviews with its leadership, allegedly because of bullying and arrests by the intelligence agencies—Pashteen’s protest is gaining ground. In February 2018, the PTM staged a sit-in in Islamabad, which was followed by more protests against the military in all major Pakistani cities.

In February this year, for example, hundreds of young men and women marched in Lahore, the country’s second-largest city, to demand freedom of expression, respect for the country’s constitution, and civil rights. The name of their rally—Shehri Tahafuz March, or Citizen Protection March—was an homage to PTM. And in April, tens of thousands of people demonstrated under the PTM banner in the North Waziristan city of Miran Shah.

At these rallies, a popular slogan is “Ye jo dehshat gardi hai, es ke peche wardi hai,” or “the uniform is behind all the terrorism.”

But can such marches really change anything?

Over the decades, the majority of civilians and politicians have shied away from raising questions about what they may privately acknowledge is the military’s encroachment on civilian politics.Over the decades, the majority of civilians and politicians have shied away from raising questions about what they may privately acknowledge is the military’s encroachment on civilian politics.

The same goes for Prime Minister Imran Khan, who won office in 2018, and is believed to be backed by the military establishment. Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, the leader of the opposition Pakistan Peoples Party, called Khan the “selected prime minister” during an inaugural speech in the National Assembly. Since then, the word “selected” has been repeatedly used by opposition politicians to criticize the military establishment for backing Khan.

They may have their own reasons for discrediting Khan, but other observers have noted his closeness to the military as well.

Thanks to social media and the momentum generated by PTM activists, however, more and more Pakistanis have started criticize the military’s involvement in politics, including by questioning the army’s corporate interests and its outsized budget and by censuring the institution directly online.

Although the military can silence conventional media, it has few tools to restrict individual activity on social media. Even arrests and harassment of social media activists have so far failed to suppress dissent.

Social media has also helped PTM spread its message nationwide. Waziristan had previously existed in a virtual information black hole thanks to regular media blackouts during the days of anti-Taliban operations. But with social media, news can get in—and out.

That a protest movement has spread from the area to other cities is a rarity for a district that often feels completely disconnected—physically and culturally—from other parts of the country.

It is also unusual that a movement originally created to support ethnic Pashtuns has found support across communal lines.It is also unusual that a movement originally created to support ethnic Pashtuns has found support across communal lines.

In early February, for example, Ammar Ali Jan, a college teacher and PTM supporter, was picked up by law enforcement agencies from his house in Lahore in the middle of night on charges of supporting the PTM.

In response, dozens of Punjab-based activists launched a social media campaign for his release. A few days after his release, Jan explained his ordeal in an op-ed. He clarified that he is not an ethnic Pashtun but has supported the PTM in its broader struggle against human rights violations.

Facing widespread protest, the Pakistani military has resorted to its old playbook and condemned the PTM and other emerging movements as “fifth-generation warfare”—that is, hybrid warfare against the state.

Meanwhile, the military has also linked Pashteen and others to foreign governments and intelligence agencies. Addressing a news conference on April 29, Pakistani military spokesman Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor accused the PTM leadership of getting money from Indian and Afghan intelligence:

“But tell us how much money did you get from the NDS [Afghan National Directorate of Security] to run your campaign?” he asked. “How much money did RAW [India’s Research and Analysis Wing] give you for the first dharna [sit-in] in Islamabad?”

In a bid to counter the PTM, state security agencies have swamped social media, Twitter in particular, with their own posts. Twitter accounts of ambiguous origins attack journalists and social media activists who criticize the military or the government. In turn, Facebook has removed more than 100 accounts, pages, and groups linked to the Pakistani military’s public relations arm.

So far, pressure has failed to silence dissent. Arrests, online harassment, and threats are now openly debated in social media forums, which encourages the brave to speak out.

Questioning the military’s use of extremist proxies, relations with India, violence in Kashmir, defense and military expenditures, constitutional supremacy, and even alleged human rights abuses in Baluchistan province is no longer as taboo as it used to be. In fact, Pakistanis are now promoting hashtags to highlight such issues.

And that is the worst nightmare of Pakistan’s policymakers. Although Khan still enjoys support from many Pakistani civilians, his continued silence about the security agencies’ alleged human rights violations and harassment of peaceful demonstrators will likely dent his popularity in the longer run.

He is already seen as the military’s man in Islamabad—and that position is getting less and less comfortable to occupy.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/30/the-pakistani-militarys-worst-nightmare-is-coming-true/

An excellent article by "traitor" and "foreign funded" Daud Khattak.

 

[Pete Rose]

We don't learn from history. We repeat the same mistakes over and over again but expect different results. Whenever someone - or a group of people - say things that we do not want to hear, all we have to do is to use buzzwords like "traitor" and play the "foreign funding" card, which is nothing but a vague cop-out.

It is easy to accuse our favourite bogeyman India as well as Afghanistan, but how are they funding PTM? What channel are they using to send money, and why is ISI not able to stop them in their tracks? Are they working on sourcing the funding and when can we expect them to come up with concrete evidence? Perhaps we expect too much from a remarkably incompetent intelligence agency that had no clue that the most wanted terrorist in the world was chilling half a mile away from a military base in Abbottabad.

It appears that no one has the guts to ask ISPR these tough questions and everyone is happy to stand in line like sheep and dismiss PTM and their intentions because of foreign funding.

Also, Imran's role in the last few days has been hysterical. Three days earlier, he stated that PTM's demands are legitimate, but the very next day, he took his trademark U-turn and asserted that they are a foreign funded propaganda. Looks like he got quite a mouthful from the higher powers for legitimising their demands. Or perhaps, it was just another "slip of tongue" - like the goof-ups in Iran and China.

What is this word salad.
I think Pakistan has made significant progress form 1971 where a losing political party and a dictator were not accepting the legitimacy of the winning party.
What we have here instead are two people with a very rich documented history of being anti-state getting their time in the sun to agitate in a previously no-go area. I cannot think of any country in the world where elected member of parliament go off against the country's armed forces. Not because its wrong but because its political suicide. Even the Zardari's failson knows better thats why he says stuff like "PM should not ask ISPR to make political statements"
As for Imran, his speech had the operative word "some of these people"

 

[slipcatch]

We don't learn from history. We repeat the same mistakes over and over again but expect different results. Whenever someone - or a group of people - say things that we do not want to hear, all we have to do is to use buzzwords like "traitor" and play the "foreign funding" card, which is nothing but a vague cop-out.

It is easy to accuse our favourite bogeyman India as well as Afghanistan, but how are they funding PTM? What channel are they using to send money, and why is ISI not able to stop them in their tracks? Are they working on sourcing the funding and when can we expect them to come up with concrete evidence? Perhaps we expect too much from a remarkably incompetent intelligence agency that had no clue that the most wanted terrorist in the world was chilling half a mile away from a military base in Abbottabad.

It appears that no one has the guts to ask ISPR these tough questions and everyone is happy to stand in line like sheep and dismiss PTM and their intentions because of foreign funding.

Also, Imran's role in the last few days has been hysterical. Three days earlier, he stated that PTM's demands are legitimate, but the very next day, he took his trademark U-turn and asserted that they are a foreign funded propaganda. Looks like he got quite a mouthful from the higher powers for legitimising their demands. Or perhaps, it was just another "slip of tongue" - like the goof-ups in Iran and China.

And foreign funding isn't a issue?

In which world do you live in?

 

[WebGuru]

Also, Imran's role in the last few days has been hysterical. Three days earlier, he stated that PTM's demands are legitimate, but the very next day, he took his trademark U-turn and asserted that they are a foreign funded propaganda.

You skipped the part from his first speech which you mentioned. He said some of their demands are legitimate but the way they are doing it is completely wrong they are trying to turn people against their own army and Imran fully supported Army here. Mamoon sorry but now you are making up facts just to prove IK wrong and to call him Uturn. Here is the clip:

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eFvPM8_dhMs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[slipcatch]

I'd like to know, why foreign funding isn't a issue?

 

[Bewal Express]

We don't learn from history. We repeat the same mistakes over and over again but expect different results. Whenever someone - or a group of people - say things that we do not want to hear, all we have to do is to use buzzwords like "traitor" and play the "foreign funding" card, which is nothing but a vague cop-out.

It is easy to accuse our favourite bogeyman India as well as Afghanistan, but how are they funding PTM? What channel are they using to send money, and why is ISI not able to stop them in their tracks? Are they working on sourcing the funding and when can we expect them to come up with concrete evidence? Perhaps we expect too much from a remarkably incompetent intelligence agency that had no clue that the most wanted terrorist in the world was chilling half a mile away from a military base in Abbottabad.

It appears that no one has the guts to ask ISPR these tough questions and everyone is happy to stand in line like sheep and dismiss PTM and their intentions because of foreign funding.

Also, Imran's role in the last few days has been hysterical. Three days earlier, he stated that PTM's demands are legitimate, but the very next day, he took his trademark U-turn and asserted that they are a foreign funded propaganda. Looks like he got quite a mouthful from the higher powers for legitimising their demands. Or perhaps, it was just another "slip of tongue" - like the goof-ups in Iran and China.

Why would Ind and Afghanistan agencies back them? It's called treason for a reason and band wagon jumpers like you idiots.

 

[Bewal Express]

You skipped the part from his first speech which you mentioned. He said some of their demands are legitimate but the way they are doing it is completely wrong they are trying to turn people against their own army and Imran fully supported Army here. Mamoon sorry but now you are making up facts just to prove IK wrong and to call him Uturn. Here is the clip:

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eFvPM8_dhMs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What a surprise, he listens some bits that fit his agenda.

 

[CobraRules]

Can you buy land in Kashmir? No you cannot and never will. Lmao

You are just a guest in Kashmir whenever you choose to visit.

Why will he buy land in that cesspool ?? It's very poor from investment point of view. That area is literally cesspool with zero development. Vacation homes can be only reason for someone to buy land there. Even then there is always violence. Doesn't make any sense.
Anyways, Logically there are some restriction in NE states of India and I think in Himachal also. That doesn't make them a separate nation.
Guests can be rulers also. It's the Legacy of Delhi from 10th century. ROFLMFAO

No country can own a land without locals willingness to be part of that country unless the occupying army kill every local.

Exactly that's what Pak DG ISPR is telling. Liberty is over. Get ready to be....so that we can occupy it.

 

[slipcatch]

Why will he buy land in that cesspool ?? It's very poor from investment point of view. That area is literally cesspool with zero development. Vacation homes can be only reason for someone to buy land there. Even then there is always violence. Doesn't make any sense.
Anyways, Logically there are some restriction in NE states of India and I think in Himachal also. That doesn't make them a separate nation.
Guests can be rulers also. It's the Legacy of Delhi from 10th century. ROFLMFAO



Exactly that's what Pak DG ISPR is telling. Liberty is over. Get ready to be....so that we can occupy it.

Lol

Comparing 600,000+ troops with PTM is almost as dumb as someone dropped on their head by their parents when they were infant.

 

[Lonewarrior]

The Pakistani Military’s Worst Nightmare Is Coming True


https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/30/the-pakistani-militarys-worst-nightmare-is-coming-true/

An excellent article by "traitor" and "foreign funded" Daud Khattak.

Glorifying the traitors, only mamoon can do that.
you think pak army afraid of PTM ? TTP did jack, so who the hell is this pashteen guy ?

 

[CobraRules]

Lol

Comparing 600,000+ troops with PTM is almost as dumb as someone dropped on their head by their parents when they were infant.

Did you mean 600,000+ troops of Pakistani security personnel for PTM? LOL

 

[slipcatch]

Did you mean 600,000+ troops of Pakistani security personnel for PTM? LOL

Child, let's not expose yourself, and stop embarrassing yourself.

You are tying to come off of as a smart person but you are making a fool out of yoursel.

You seem to be new on this website with not that many posts so I will stop here and will not have any further discussion with you.

But get your fact straight before you start typing.

Let's start with this fact, India has over 600,000+ troops in Kashmir against the will of people of Kashmir, it is a well established fact that has been acknowledged by everyone on any international forum.

Good luck studying.

 

[CobraRules]

Child, let's not expose yourself, and stop embarrassing yourself.

You are tying to come off of as a smart person but you are making a fool out of yoursel.

You seem to be new on this website with not that many posts so I will stop here and will not have any further discussion with you.

But get your fact straight before you start typing.

Let's start with this fact, India has over 600,000+ troops in Kashmir against the will of people of Kashmir, it is a well established fact that has been acknowledged by everyone on any international forum.

Good luck studying.

I post less because I don't have much free time. I prefer to read few posts for leisure.

I too don't want to derail the thread anymore with your number of troops, disputed state, etc. The bottom line is If Pakistan will fund Kashmiri separatists and militants then India will do and Vice versa.
Both nations should understand.

 

[Loralai]

We don't learn from history. We repeat the same mistakes over and over again but expect different results. Whenever someone - or a group of people - say things that we do not want to hear, all we have to do is to use buzzwords like "traitor" and play the "foreign funding" card, which is nothing but a vague cop-out.

It is easy to accuse our favourite bogeyman India as well as Afghanistan, but how are they funding PTM? What channel are they using to send money, and why is ISI not able to stop them in their tracks? Are they working on sourcing the funding and when can we expect them to come up with concrete evidence? Perhaps we expect too much from a remarkably incompetent intelligence agency that had no clue that the most wanted terrorist in the world was chilling half a mile away from a military base in Abbottabad.

It appears that no one has the guts to ask ISPR these tough questions and everyone is happy to stand in line like sheep and dismiss PTM and their intentions because of foreign funding.

Also, Imran's role in the last few days has been hysterical. Three days earlier, he stated that PTM's demands are legitimate, but the very next day, he took his trademark U-turn and asserted that they are a foreign funded propaganda. Looks like he got quite a mouthful from the higher powers for legitimising their demands. Or perhaps, it was just another "slip of tongue" - like the goof-ups in Iran and China.

Thank you [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. This is the truth and as usual we prefer to avoid it. I hope one day the deep state can take such a strong stance against JeM, Hafiz Saeed etc as they have against PTM.

 

[Bewal Express]

Thank you [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. This is the truth and as usual we prefer to avoid it. I hope one day the deep state can take such a strong stance against JeM, Hafiz Saeed etc as they have against PTM.

We dont need Traitors like you.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

I post less because I don't have much free time. I prefer to read few posts for leisure.

I too don't want to derail the thread anymore with your number of troops, disputed state, etc. The bottom line is If Pakistan will fund Kashmiri separatists and militants then India will do and Vice versa.
Both nations should understand.

Kashmir is a disputed area where both parties claim that it's belong to them but do you think that Fata & balochistan are disputed areas too?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Can you buy land in Kashmir? No you cannot and never will. Lmao

You are just a guest in Kashmir whenever you choose to visit.

Do you understand what special status is?

Many countries in the world allow special status to certain provinces. Eg. Catalonia in Spain.

That doesnot mean its not part of Spain.

I can visit Kashmir anytime i want. Pakistanis cannot.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Do you understand what special status is?

Many countries in the world allow special status to certain provinces. Eg. Catalonia in Spain.

That doesnot mean its not part of Spain.

I can visit Kashmir anytime i want. Pakistanis cannot.

I don't know which side of Kashmir you're mentioning here. If you mean the Pakistani side, then your wrong, we can visit at ANY time we want.

And if you're mentioning Pakistanis visiting IOK, then yeah that is a bit more difficult, but it's the same for you if you wanted to come over to Azad Kashmir.

 

[MenInG]

Chief of Army Staff Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa on Thursday said that while the Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement (PTM) is itself "not an issue", certain individuals "playing in foreign hands" are exploiting the sentiments of people who have suffered hardships because of terrorism.

The army chief's remarks, which he made while interacting with students of various universities at the Corps Auditorium during a visit to Peshawar, come days after the military's spokesperson at a press conference read out a charge sheet against PTM, accusing the Pashtun ethnic rights movement of receiving funds from foreign intelligence agencies and hinting at a possible action against it.

"PTM itself is not an issue. The issues being highlighted [by the movement] are genuine and natural in post-operation environment," Gen Bajwa was quoted as saying in an Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) statement. "However, few individuals playing in foreign hands are by design exploiting sentiments of the people who have actually suffered at the hands of terrorism and now need care."

PTM is a rights-based alliance that, besides calling for the de-mining of the former tribal areas and greater freedom of movement in the latter, has insisted on an end to the practices of extrajudicial killings, enforced disappearances and unlawful detentions, and for their practitioners to be held to account within a truth and reconciliation framework.

The army chief said stressed that both the government and the security forces were working to address the genuine issues of the residents of tribal areas "regardless of where they come from".

“For us progress towards enduring peace through socio-economic development comes first and we shall fail all inimical forces and their conspiracies trying to undo our gains,” he vowed.

Lauding the efforts of the Pakistani nation and the armed forces for defeating terrorism, the army chief said it was now time "to have its dividends through socio-economic development in which education is [the] most important".

According to the press release, the students during the meeting expressed their complete support for the Pakistani armed forces, saying "they will be contributors and not bystanders to [a] bright future of Pakistan and [that] they will not be swayed by detractors of any type."

https://www.dawn.com/news/1479811/p...ploiting-sentiments-of-terrorism-victims-coas

 

[Bewal Express]

Do you understand what special status is?

Many countries in the world allow special status to certain provinces. Eg. Catalonia in Spain.

That doesnot mean its not part of Spain.

I can visit Kashmir anytime i want. Pakistanis cannot.

Didn't Catalonia have a referendum? How did they vote?

 

[King-Misbah]

Didn't Catalonia have a referendum? How did they vote?

Carolinians hate Spain now; similar to how Kashmiris hate India.

 

[Loralai]

It appears a thread about PTM has been derailed by those who seem to label anyone with a view different to their as a traitor. What a shame.

We should be celebrating movements like PTM which represent grass roots political activism rather than accusing them of foreign funding.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Chief of Army Staff Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa on Thursday said that while the Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement (PTM) is itself "not an issue", certain individuals "playing in foreign hands" are exploiting the sentiments of people who have suffered hardships because of terrorism.

The army chief's remarks, which he made while interacting with students of various universities at the Corps Auditorium during a visit to Peshawar, come days after the military's spokesperson at a press conference read out a charge sheet against PTM, accusing the Pashtun ethnic rights movement of receiving funds from foreign intelligence agencies and hinting at a possible action against it.

"PTM itself is not an issue. The issues being highlighted [by the movement] are genuine and natural in post-operation environment," Gen Bajwa was quoted as saying in an Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) statement. "However, few individuals playing in foreign hands are by design exploiting sentiments of the people who have actually suffered at the hands of terrorism and now need care."

PTM is a rights-based alliance that, besides calling for the de-mining of the former tribal areas and greater freedom of movement in the latter, has insisted on an end to the practices of extrajudicial killings, enforced disappearances and unlawful detentions, and for their practitioners to be held to account within a truth and reconciliation framework.

The army chief said stressed that both the government and the security forces were working to address the genuine issues of the residents of tribal areas "regardless of where they come from".

“For us progress towards enduring peace through socio-economic development comes first and we shall fail all inimical forces and their conspiracies trying to undo our gains,” he vowed.

Lauding the efforts of the Pakistani nation and the armed forces for defeating terrorism, the army chief said it was now time "to have its dividends through socio-economic development in which education is [the] most important".

According to the press release, the students during the meeting expressed their complete support for the Pakistani armed forces, saying "they will be contributors and not bystanders to [a] bright future of Pakistan and [that] they will not be swayed by detractors of any type."

https://www.dawn.com/news/1479811/p...ploiting-sentiments-of-terrorism-victims-coas

Much better response from the Army Chief. Good to see him behind Imran and not the other way round.

 

[Waseem]

It appears a thread about PTM has been derailed by those who seem to label anyone with a view different to their as a traitor. What a shame.

We should be celebrating movements like PTM which represent grass roots political activism rather than accusing them of foreign funding.

Celebrate:

Worst racism against 50% of your population?
Incitement to violence?
Abuse of soldiers who protect them?
Mutiny calls?
Sympathising with terrorists?
Appreciating Afghani president to comment on Pak issues and criticising own PM for same?


How on earth do we appreciate their leader Mohsin Dawar who celebrated drones strikes, criticised anyone who opposed military strikes, called them Taliban apologists and literally celebrated deaths in FATA but now becomes biggest opponent of military attacks AFTER the areas has been cleared??

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't know which side of Kashmir you're mentioning here. If you mean the Pakistani side, then your wrong, we can visit at ANY time we want.

And if you're mentioning Pakistanis visiting IOK, then yeah that is a bit more difficult, but it's the same for you if you wanted to come over to Azad Kashmir.

The capital and major part of kashmir valley is in india.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Didn't Catalonia have a referendum? How did they vote?

Lol. The so called referendum was illegal and the guy who ordered it ran away and was caught and in jail.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Carolinians hate Spain now; similar to how Kashmiris hate India.

Catalonia is a part of Spain. Thats the bottomline.

 

[MenInG]

I don't know which side of Kashmir you're mentioning here. If you mean the Pakistani side, then your wrong, we can visit at ANY time we want.

And if you're mentioning Pakistanis visiting IOK, then yeah that is a bit more difficult, but it's the same for you if you wanted to come over to Azad Kashmir.

The capital and major part of kashmir valley is in india.

Guys stay on topic. Thanks

 

[Bewal Express]

Lol. The so called referendum was illegal and the guy who ordered it ran away and was caught and in jail.

It was only illegal because they didnt get the result they wanted! Had the Spanish won, they would have been quoting until the day of Qayymat.

 

[Bewal Express]

It appears a thread about PTM has been derailed by those who seem to label anyone with a view different to their as a traitor. What a shame.

We should be celebrating movements like PTM which represent grass roots political activism rather than accusing them of foreign funding.

No you are traitor! Pakistan Army Zindabad