Younis Khan should be rated higher than the likes of Joe Root and Kane Williamson!

[Buffet]

and just to add if Pak is dismissed below 340 in this inn against WI, this will be first time in UAE that Younis Khan will have a fifty in matches where Pakistan is dismissed below 340

Asad Shafiq has a century, Misbah has few fifties, even Hafeez has some innings when Pakistan were dominated by opposition in UAE, but Younis is doing it for first time here.

He scores big when ball isn't turning sharply, but that's the advantage with him and he does it consistently. However credit should be given to other batsmen for leading the pack in adverse scenarios.

How many matches with sub 340 score where YK hasn't score a 50? I am trying to see if it's a meaningful number.

 

[KingKhanWC]

A Rank Turner is a pitch that has sharp turn starting from day one.

In the UAE the turn is slow and is easier to play contrary to India/BD.

Instead of accusing people of not understanding cricket you should refine your own understanding.

Sharp has nothing to do with it. It's a term which suggests the pitch will help a spinner turn the ball from day 1.

In your rush to help me understand you failed to read the rest of my post. Younis Khan has scored many runs in the 4th innings when the ball turned more than enough for other spinners to rip through the batting line up.

Do you think Root and Williamson are better players of spin? Please explain this now.

 

[AlizeeFan]

How many matches with sub 340 score where YK hasn't score a 50? I am trying to see if it's a meaningful number.

18 out of his 50 innings in UAE and while you expect batsmen to fail in low scoring innings, you would expect ATG to have multiple innings (at least 50s). Likes of Asad Shafiq and Misbah have more than 100s and 50s and hacks have at least 1 inning. Here we have Younis contributing for the first time.

It will be interesting comparison among all batsmen of Pakistan to check who scores more often when team struggles and I won't be surprised if Misbah is at the top.

 

[Buffet]

18 out of his 50 innings in UAE and while you expect batsmen to fail in low scoring innings, you would expect ATG to have multiple innings (at least 50s). Likes of Asad Shafiq and Misbah have more than 100s and 50s and hacks have at least 1 inning. Here we have Younis contributing for the first time.

It will be interesting comparison among all batsmen of Pakistan to check who scores more often when team struggles and I won't be surprised if Misbah is at the top.

That's a decent sample size. I am surprised to see that he hasn't scored 50+ in 18 innings where Pakistan was bowled out below 340.

 

[AlizeeFan]

In your rush to help me understand you failed to read the rest of my post. Younis Khan has scored many runs in the 4th innings when the ball turned more than enough for other spinners to rip through the batting line up.

Do you think Root and Williamson are better players of spin? Please explain this now.

First - Root and Williamson are not better players of spin and
second - Which 100s are you talking about?

One where SA posted 318-2 with Pakistani spinners taking 200-2 and Pak scoring 343-3
or where SA scored 305-4 with spinners taking 200-3 and Pak scoring 316-4
or 107 against Ind in Kolkata where Pak scored 214-4 (it was flat pitch till 5th day)

Probably that great inning of 171 where SL scored 313 and spinners had figures of 94-2 and Pak scored 382-3

None of those inning were in conditions where ball turned enough for spinners to rip through the batting line up.

His 126 against SA

As Malik went after the bowling with only Danish Kaneria to partner him, it was always going to be an all-out attack and a top edge off his bat provided Makhaya Ntini his only wicket of the match as the visitors handed Pakistan only their second defeat in the 40 Tests in Karachi. A rare off game for Ntini but an excellent performance by Harris - seven wickets - and Nel - four wickets and 33 runs in the second innings - proved enough on a pitch where Pakistan bowlers, bar Rehman, failed to impress at all.

There have been few fifties on such tracks though.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Younis Khan is not the best batsman in this Pakistan team on rank turners or pitches with lateral movement.

Asad Shafiq and Misbah are best on turners.

Pitches with movement - Maybe Misbah.

Younis Khan is best batsman under pressure and on best batting conditions where teams look to seize the initiative and put big totals and since team bats in those conditions most of the time, he is most useful batsman of this team atm.

 

[KingKhanWC]

First - Root and Williamson are not better players of spin and
second - Which 100s are you talking about?

One where SA posted 318-2 with Pakistani spinners taking 200-2 and Pak scoring 343-3
or where SA scored 305-4 with spinners taking 200-3 and Pak scoring 316-4
or 107 against Ind in Kolkata where Pak scored 214-4 (it was flat pitch till 5th day)

Probably that great inning of 171 where SL scored 313 and spinners had figures of 94-2 and Pak scored 382-3

None of those inning were in conditions where ball turned enough for spinners to rip through the batting line up.

His 126 against SA

Your method is flawed, i didn't suggest you can see how well YK plays spin by his UAE innings only.

If you want to determine this then you must do a bit more work. It's always debatable how much turn there is and now what type of turn etc..

First or second innings there are many instances where YK has scored a lot of runs in matches where spinners have taken plenty, the bulk or the majority of wickets.

Also instead of just stats you can see by the way YK plays spin, he is one of the best , if not the best in the world now.

It's laughable if you think Shafiq is a better player of spin when the ball is turning big.

 

[Mamoon]

You really dont understand cricket at all.

Can you even define a rank turner?

YK has scored masses of runs playing against spin in the second innings. The UAE is where spinners have taken as much wickets as spinners take in India or anywhere else.

YK is one of the greatest players of spin of all time. Root and Williamson will never get close to his skills against spin but can match them on pace bowling pitches.

I am afraid you are the only who needs a bit of education.

Yes I can define a rank turner. It is a pitch where you get sharp turn from day 1, and if you want to see what a rank turner looks like, look no further than the pitches India have served to Australia, South Africa and New Zealand in the last 3 years and the pitches Bangladesh served to England in this series.

They have more turn on day 1 than a UAE pitch on day 5. UAE pitches are proper highways for the first 3 days and the turn in the last two days is nothing like what you see on proper rank turners.

No one will disputes that Younis is a brilliant player of spin, but he hasn't been tested on a proper rank turner in years.

The fact that you are counting the total number of wickets by spinners in the UAE and are using that to prove that the pitches are equally spin friendly as the Indian and Bangladeshi ones exposes your misunderstanding.

Just look at the average scores in India and Bangladesh lately and compare it to the average scores in the UAE, and also compare individual batting averages.

Pakistan might be brilliant against spin, but look at the output of Williamson in UAE and then compare his output in India.

Cook managed a 260 in Abu Dhabi but he failed to score a hundred in Bangladesh.

Root was much better against Pakistan in the UAE than he was against Bangladesh in Bangladesh.

Ross Taylor, a mediocre player of spin, failed in India badly but scored a hundred in the UAE.

Amla and de Villiers scored hundreds in the UAE in 2013 but couldn't do it in India last year.

It is matter of fact not conjecture; Pakistani batsmen have not been tested on proper rank turners ever since they have started playing in the UAE, and if they tour India or Bangladesh now they will probably not get such rank turners anyway because the opposition will also account for the threat of Yasir, but these teams produce rank turners for teams like Australia, South Africa, England and New Zealand because they lack a top quality spinner.

 

[Mamoon]

Those batsman are the few whom we know for sure are world class vs spin, no one else overrates the ability of a shafiq or azhar vs spin. Batting on rank turners is a challenge even for the best.

There is question mark over those three as well, because Younis has not played on a rank turner for years and even during the 2005 and 2007 tours of India, the pitches were much flatter and nothing like the ones they dish out today.

Misbah and Sarfraz have never played on a proper rank turner.

 

[Mamoon]

It might be off but the point stands, we don't know for sure that Root and Williamson will be in contention for ATG status 10 years from now.

Younis can be forgiven for that, how many batsman came in at the Test level and dominated from the word go? Younis evolved, adapted and got better. The ATG bowlers never got to bowl at Younis in his prime, they were lucky to bowl at a pretty green batsman.

Rahane is a level above the rest, then there's Williamson, Smith etc don't know where I'd put the Motorway King. Yeah it was a big shame that Moyo's career ended prematurely but it's strange how you won't give him the tag of an ATG when he dominated in an away series, you give that a great deal of emphasis.

Younis hasn't dominated an away series in that fashion but has achieved a lot more then Yousef, so who's greater in your opinion? you probably will say neither are ATG's but Moyo is better.

But hey, you say that Moyo would have achieved a lot more had his career not ended tragically and also based on that he must be better then Younis Khan in your opinion in addition to his skill levels but you also play down the fact that it was also tragic that Younis never got to play in some key series in 2010.

At this moment in time it's also important to note that Khan is past his prime yet ranked no.2, just think what he'd have achieved in 2010 by god I fear the slaughter which the bowlers would be subjected to on those away tours.

Two things:

Firstly, and you will disagree, but Younis has never scored a century in proper swinging conditions. He is a bit of a FTB and that's okay, no player is perfect. I think missing the 2010 tour of England did him good actually.

It was the worst English summer for batting in years and 6 years later, we haven't had a summer like that again. Amir and Anderson were swinging the ball like Wasim Akram on steroids.

The only batsman who came out of the 2010 English summer with his dignity intact was Trott, and during the 2009-2011 period, he was probably the best Test batsman in the game.

I really don't think that Younis would have succeed in England in 2010. It took him 7 failures + a flat pitch + Mooen pies to finally score last summer in much easier conditions.

Secondly, and it's linked to the previous point, Since 2014, Younis has been more consistent on flat pitches than he ever has been in his career, apart from maybe the 2005-2007 period.

From 2010-2013, he was not very consistent and would generally perform once per series only, but in the last 2 years he has been a run scoring matchine on flat decks. Thus, I am not really sure how strong the argument that he is past it really is.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I am afraid you are the only who needs a bit of education.

Yes I can define a rank turner. It is a pitch where you get sharp turn from day 1, and if you want to see what a rank turner looks like, look no further than the pitches India have served to Australia, South Africa and New Zealand in the last 3 years and the pitches Bangladesh served to England in this series.

They have more turn on day 1 than a UAE pitch on day 5. UAE pitches are proper highways for the first 3 days and the turn in the last two days is nothing like what you see on proper rank turners.

No one will disputes that Younis is a brilliant player of spin, but he hasn't been tested on a proper rank turner in years.

The fact that you are counting the total number of wickets by spinners in the UAE and are using that to prove that the pitches are equally spin friendly as the Indian and Bangladeshi ones exposes your misunderstanding.

Just look at the average scores in India and Bangladesh lately and compare it to the average scores in the UAE, and also compare individual batting averages.

Pakistan might be brilliant against spin, but look at the output of Williamson in UAE and then compare his output in India.

Cook managed a 260 in Abu Dhabi but he failed to score a hundred in Bangladesh.

Root was much better against Pakistan in the UAE than he was against Bangladesh in Bangladesh.

Ross Taylor, a mediocre player of spin, failed in India badly but scored a hundred in the UAE.

Amla and de Villiers scored hundreds in the UAE in 2013 but couldn't do it in India last year.

It is matter of fact not conjecture; Pakistani batsmen have not been tested on proper rank turners ever since they have started playing in the UAE, and if they tour India or Bangladesh now they will probably not get such rank turners anyway because the opposition will also account for the threat of Yasir, but these teams produce rank turners for teams like Australia, South Africa, England and New Zealand because they lack a top quality spinner.

Rank turner is a pitch which turns from day one, the sharpness, speed, amount of turn is always different but if it turns from the first session it's a rank turner.

Only in 2015 YK pulled off one of the greatest knocks in the second innings, helping to chase down a large target on a pitch was turning sharp, he owned the spinner like no spinner has been ownded.

171 not out Pallekele

 

[Messiah]

He is a legend. Kane and root have long ways to go. Can't put youngsters over legends so quickly

 

[Bilal7]

Root, Smith and Kane are nobodies in front of Younis Khan. All three have the potential to do great things, even match Younis if they're especially great, but comparing them to Khan right now is like comparing Rabada and Amir to Steyn. There is no comparison.

 

[anindo]

Root, Smith and Kane are nobodies in front of Younis Khan. All three have the potential to do great things, even match Younis if they're especially great, but comparing them to Khan right now is like comparing Rabada and Amir to Steyn. There is no comparison.

Smith has 4000+ runs at 58 average with 15 hundreds (7 away). He averages 55 away and 40+ in every country. Even on the rank turners in Sri Lanka he scored 250 runs in the series.

 

[Bilal7]

Smith has 4000+ runs at 58 average with 15 hundreds (7 away). He averages 55 away and 40+ in every country. Even on the rank turners in Sri Lanka he scored 250 runs in the series.

Younis has more than double of all that. Once again, not saying those three are not very good players but in front of Younis, they're nobodies as of now.

 

[90MPH]

Of course YK is ahead of them, that too by a fair distance.

Anyone that thinks otherwise needs their head examining.

As for best player of spin, YK is the best player of spin in the world. He will only get out to spin if he plays an over ambitious leg side shot but otherwise he's got the vast majority of spinners in his pocket. He dominates spin in so many ways.

 

[Black Zero]

Younis Khan is not the best batsman in this Pakistan team on rank turners or pitches with lateral movement.

Asad Shafiq and Misbah are best on turners.

Pitches with movement - Maybe Misbah.

Younis Khan is best batsman under pressure and on best batting conditions where teams look to seize the initiative and put big totals and since team bats in those conditions most of the time, he is most useful batsman of this team atm.

Cannot agree more.

 

[Red Devil]

and just to add if Pak is dismissed below 340 in this inn against WI, this will be first time in UAE that Younis Khan will have a fifty in matches where Pakistan is dismissed below 340

Asad Shafiq has a century, Misbah has few fifties, even Hafeez has some innings when Pakistan were dominated by opposition in UAE, but Younis is doing it for first time here.

He scores big when ball isn't turning sharply, but that's the advantage with him and he does it consistently. However credit should be given to other batsmen for leading the pack in adverse scenarios.

Lol you really do have a knack of posting useless stats. Younis has an incredible conversion rate - every time he gets fifty, he converts it into a big score. When a top order batsman gets a big score, the team usually gets a big score as well. I've lost count of of the number of times YK has bailed us out of trouble.

Few examples:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/902637.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/860267.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/657647.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/659555.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/530426.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/461571.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/297807.html

Anyway, here's a crazy idea for you: how about you stop scrounging Cricinfo for useless stats and actually watch some matches?

 

[AlizeeFan]

Lol you really do have a knack of posting useless stats. Younis has an incredible conversion rate - every time he gets fifty, he converts it into a big score. When a top order batsman gets a big score, the team usually gets a big score as well. I've lost count of of the number of times YK has bailed us out of trouble.

Few examples:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/902637.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/860267.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/657647.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/659555.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/530426.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/461571.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/297807.html

Anyway, here's a crazy idea for you: how about you stop scrounging Cricinfo for useless stats and actually watch some matches?

Watched lot of matches and every time if there is collective batting line up failure, Younis goes missing in UAE. He is not like other batsman who can score even if all other batsmen fail. If pitches are bad enough for everyone else to fail then younis is also among them. Generally I see Misbah and other Pakistani batsmen fighting like lone warrior on such pitches.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Your method is flawed, i didn't suggest you can see how well YK plays spin by his UAE innings only.

Those are not his UAE in my quoted posts. Those are all his innings.

 

[boomboom6]

The lengths some will go to discredit YK ... one can't help but ) at these individuals!

 

[Hitman]

Wish we had a Test player like Younis Khan in our team.

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Why would you even compare a 38 years old veteran with 26-27 year olds who have 8-10 years of career ahead of them?

 

[Xoib]

I am afraid you are the only who needs a bit of education.

Yes I can define a rank turner. It is a pitch where you get sharp turn from day 1, and if you want to see what a rank turner looks like, look no further than the pitches India have served to Australia, South Africa and New Zealand in the last 3 years and the pitches Bangladesh served to England in this series.

They have more turn on day 1 than a UAE pitch on day 5. UAE pitches are proper highways for the first 3 days and the turn in the last two days is nothing like what you see on proper rank turners.


It is matter of fact not conjecture; Pakistani batsmen have not been tested on proper rank turners ever since they have started playing in the UAE, and if they tour India or Bangladesh now they will probably not get such rank turners anyway because the opposition will also account for the threat of Yasir, but these teams produce rank turners for teams like Australia, South Africa, England and New Zealand because they lack a top quality spinner.

So from your post I can gather that Yasir > Ashwin as Ashwin has been spoonfed rank turners while Yasir has toiled away of flat slow tracks.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I am afraid you are the only who needs a bit of education.

Yes I can define a rank turner. It is a pitch where you get sharp turn from day 1, and if you want to see what a rank turner looks like, look no further than the pitches India have served to Australia, South Africa and New Zealand in the last 3 years and the pitches Bangladesh served to England in this series.

They have more turn on day 1 than a UAE pitch on day 5. UAE pitches are proper highways for the first 3 days and the turn in the last two days is nothing like what you see on proper rank turners.

No one will disputes that Younis is a brilliant player of spin, but he hasn't been tested on a proper rank turner in years.

The fact that you are counting the total number of wickets by spinners in the UAE and are using that to prove that the pitches are equally spin friendly as the Indian and Bangladeshi ones exposes your misunderstanding.

Just look at the average scores in India and Bangladesh lately and compare it to the average scores in the UAE, and also compare individual batting averages.

Pakistan might be brilliant against spin, but look at the output of Williamson in UAE and then compare his output in India.

Cook managed a 260 in Abu Dhabi but he failed to score a hundred in Bangladesh.

Root was much better against Pakistan in the UAE than he was against Bangladesh in Bangladesh.

Ross Taylor, a mediocre player of spin, failed in India badly but scored a hundred in the UAE.

Amla and de Villiers scored hundreds in the UAE in 2013 but couldn't do it in India last year.

It is matter of fact not conjecture; Pakistani batsmen have not been tested on proper rank turners ever since they have started playing in the UAE, and if they tour India or Bangladesh now they will probably not get such rank turners anyway because the opposition will also account for the threat of Yasir, but these teams produce rank turners for teams like Australia, South Africa, England and New Zealand because they lack a top quality spinner.

India never once gave a rank turner to NZ bro.

Not in 2012 nor in 2016.

 

[Ellipsism]

Sharp has nothing to do with it. It's a term which suggests the pitch will help a spinner turn the ball from day 1.

In your rush to help me understand you failed to read the rest of my post. Younis Khan has scored many runs in the 4th innings when the ball turned more than enough for other spinners to rip through the batting line up.

Do you think Root and Williamson are better players of spin? Please explain this now.

Nowhere did anyone mention that Root and Williamson are better players of spin than Younus.

As I said the turn in the UAE and Asia differs. You seem to be the only one that doesn't understand the concept of slow turn and sharp turn

 

[Mr. Imperfect]

Younus Khan is the best Test batsman in the world, an ATG, and our best Test batsman ever.

 

[Mamoon]

So from your post I can gather that Yasir > Ashwin as Ashwin has been spoonfed rank turners while Yasir has toiled away of flat slow tracks.

Yasir is better than the old Ashwin, but the current Ashwin and Yasir are at the same level. I don't think Ashwin will perform less than Yasir on UAE pitches or on the two pitches that Yasir got in England on which he did well.

He is at the peak of his powers at the moment and has improved as a bowler a lot. Only way of knowing who is actually better is if Pakistan and India face off in a Test series, but that is not going to happen.

 

[Mamoon]

India never once gave a rank turner to NZ bro.

Not in 2012 nor in 2016.

You may be right because I didn't watch much of the NZ series, but the little that I saw, it was turning considerably. Certainly more so than it does in the UAE.

The pitches for the South Africa and Australia series were outrageous though.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Younus Khan is the best Test batsman in the world, an ATG, and our best Test batsman ever.

He isn't better than Inzi at least.

 

[AlizeeFan]

You may be right because I didn't watch much of the NZ series, but the little that I saw, it was turning considerably. Certainly more so than it does in the UAE.

The pitches for the South Africa and Australia series were outrageous though.

Pitches against Aus weren't rank turners except in Delhi

 

[Mamoon]

Rank turner is a pitch which turns from day one, the sharpness, speed, amount of turn is always different but if it turns from the first session it's a rank turner.

Only in 2015 YK pulled off one of the greatest knocks in the second innings, helping to chase down a large target on a pitch was turning sharp, he owned the spinner like no spinner has been ownded.

171 not out Pallekele

Yes, that is a rank turner and we those in India these days and we saw it in Bangladesh as well.

The Pallekele innings was special but it was not on a rank turner; the pitch flattened out as the match progressed and it became easier to bat in the third and fourth innings.

Yasir took a 5-fer in the first innings but he struggled in the seconds innings, and Sri Lanka played only one specialist spinner (Kaushal) who has been mediocre at Test level so far and was undone by the flatness of the pitch on the 5th day.

When Shan Masood scored a hundred on a day 5 pitch, you know it is flat.

As I said, it was a special innings because chasing 380 in a Test is always special no matter the conditions or the quality of bowling, but it was simply not a rank turner at all.

 

[Mamoon]

Pitches against Aus weren't rank turners except in Delhi

They were.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You may be right because I didn't watch much of the NZ series, but the little that I saw, it was turning considerably. Certainly more so than it does in the UAE.

The pitches for the South Africa and Australia series were outrageous though.

Of course, Indians tracks are easier than UAE tracks for sure. It was turning more than UAE no doubt but only in Kanpur there was dangerous turn (that too for some weird reason subsided after 5-10 overs).

Yeah there were some rank turners given in Aus and SA series. Not all tracks but still had some raging turners in those 2 series.

SA spinners averaged 20 odd just like English spinners did in Bangladesh.

However NZ spinners averaged 50 odd last series.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

They were.

Only Chennai and Delhi in 2013 Aus series were rank turners. Chennai was high scoring for both sides but was a rank turner nonetheless.

Mohali was a batting paradise where Aus racked up 400 in first innings and Dhawan scored 187 at 100 SR.

Hyderabad was a proper spin track but India racked up 500+ there too.

Same way, for SA...only Nagpur and Mohali were rank turners.

 

[Mamoon]

Only Chennai and Delhi were rank turners.

Mohali was a batting paradise where Aus racked up 400 in first innings and Dhawan scored 187 at 100 SR.

Hyderabad was a proper spin track but India racked up 500+ there too.

Same way, for SA...only Nagpur and Mohali were rank turners.

So that's 3 out of 4 Tests.

I would consider Hyderabad a rank turner. Not every rank turner is the same for example, the South African pitches were tougher than the ones Australian got in Chennai, Delhi and Hyderabad, but they latter were still proper turners.

India racked up 500 but Pujara was in the form of his life and he batted as well as any batsman can bat on a proper turner. Apart from him and Vijay, rest of the batting failed.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

^Did't mean "only"....but you get the point.

 

[Mr. Imperfect]

He isn't better than Inzi at least.

He is better than him.

 

[shaz619]

Two things:

Firstly, and you will disagree, but Younis has never scored a century in proper swinging conditions. He is a bit of a FTB and that's okay, no player is perfect. I think missing the 2010 tour of England did him good actually.

It was the worst English summer for batting in years and 6 years later, we haven't had a summer like that again. Amir and Anderson were swinging the ball like Wasim Akram on steroids.

The only batsman who came out of the 2010 English summer with his dignity intact was Trott, and during the 2009-2011 period, he was probably the best Test batsman in the game.

I really don't think that Younis would have succeed in England in 2010. It took him 7 failures + a flat pitch + Mooen pies to finally score last summer in much easier conditions.

Secondly, and it's linked to the previous point, Since 2014, Younis has been more consistent on flat pitches than he ever has been in his career, apart from maybe the 2005-2007 period.

From 2010-2013, he was not very consistent and would generally perform once per series only, but in the last 2 years he has been a run scoring matchine on flat decks. Thus, I am not really sure how strong the argument that he is past it really is.

He can only beat what is put before him, the ball was doing quiet a bit in 2006 at headingley he made 173* and there have been numerous occasions where the ball was doing quiet a bit and he got through those tough periods, it's not his fault it wasn't a 100% green mamba.

It was a challenging tour no doubt for players on both sides in 2010, there is little which indicates Younis would have failed. Class is permanent, plus he was at the peak of his powers. And then there was Australia as well, it's a shame Younis never got the chance to cement his greatness without leaving any doubts. Here's what I don't get, 2010 was the worst English summer for Batting but we also tend to forget that Aussie pitches are not what they once were yet peeps will glorify Kohli. I bet if Younis is successful down under you'll begin to advocate that point.

That's true, but he made up for those failures in emphatic fashion with his greatest innings past his prime.

That's also correct, he has been a God in the UAE but such wickets don't exactly test your reflex's; we saw just how past it he is in England yet he still managed to help his country level the series in England. The Oval also had the highest pace and bounce rating on tour.

 

[shaz619]

There is question mark over those three as well, because Younis has not played on a rank turner for years and even during the 2005 and 2007 tours of India, the pitches were much flatter and nothing like the ones they dish out today.

Misbah and Sarfraz have never played on a proper rank turner.

So do you expect those three to fail on rank turners ?

 

[street cricketer]

He can only beat what is put before him, the ball was doing quiet a bit in 2006 at headingley he made 173* and there have been numerous occasions where the ball was doing quiet a bit and he got through those tough periods, it's not his fault it wasn't a 100% green mamba.

It was a challenging tour no doubt for players on both sides in 2010, there is little which indicates Younis would have failed. Class is permanent, plus he was at the peak of his powers. And then there was Australia as well, it's a shame Younis never got the chance to cement his greatness without leaving any doubts. Here's what I don't get, 2010 was the worst English summer for Batting but we also tend to forget that Aussie pitches are not what they once were yet peeps will glorify Kohli. I bet if Younis is successful down under you'll begin to advocate that point.

That's true, but he made up for those failures in emphatic fashion with his greatest innings past his prime.

That's also correct, he has been a God in the UAE but such wickets don't exactly test your reflex's; we saw just how past it he is in England yet he still managed to help his country level the series in England. The Oval also had the highest pace and bounce rating on tour.

Nobody glorifies Kohli in tests mate. If anything, he gets scrutinised more than most other players in the longer format.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

So that's 3 out of 4 Tests.

I would consider Hyderabad a rank turner. Not every rank turner is the same for example, the South African pitches were tougher than the ones Australian got in Chennai, Delhi and Hyderabad, but they latter were still proper turners.

India racked up 500 but Pujara was in the form of his life and he batted as well as any batsman can bat on a proper turner. Apart from him and Vijay, rest of the batting failed.

How was Hyderabad 2013 a rank turner?

I will say it turned more than a normal track but hardly rank turner levels.

In Hyderabad, Vijay scored 167, Pujara scored 204.

Its Sehwag and Tendulkar who failed and they were over the hill clicking sometimes, flopping sometimes. We still were carrying them for a bit. Sehwag was dropped after that test and Tendu was well...undroppable.

Kohli and Dhoni got starts (34 and 44) and our tail collapsed.

So only Kohli failed in Hyderabad.

Sure compared to UAE standards, Hyderabad was turning a lot but it really wasn't a rank turner. Aus batted first and the ball really wasn't jumping, spitting, bouncing or turning much and they lasted 85 overs. Bhuvi took 3 wickets upfront.

 

[shaz619]

Nobody glorifies Kohli in tests mate. If anything, he gets scrutinised more than most other players in the longer format.

Am not so sure about that, your best bat Rahane is criminally underrated and doesn't get an inch of credit. It's like how Dravid did all the hard work and Sachin took all the glory. Still, perhaps we don't really talk about Rahane because its widely accepted that he's brilliant.

 

[Slog]

I don't want to discredit Younis but when you Masood of all people scores a century you know that the condition were friendly and the bowling below par.

There are things like 'having a good day' and having an inspired performance

Masood just had ana unbelievable day

The conditions that day were certainly not easy otherwise others wouldnt have been falling like ninepins earlier

Masood has played on much more easier surfaces and against better bowlers after that and failed spectacularly and using your logic he should have done well

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Am not so sure about that, your best bat Rahane is criminally underrated and doesn't get an inch of credit. It's like how Dravid did all the hard work and Sachin took all the glory. Still, perhaps we don't really talk about Rahane because its widely accepted that he's brilliant.

In 90s, Dravid used to score most of his runs at an SR of 30. He did perform in England and was good overseas but if you score at 30 and not control the game in any way, you will not get hype.

Dravid's SR is 1990s - 37, 36, 37, 42

Average in 40s.

Who would get hype for that? They would be regarded as a good test player which Dravid was.

But from 2000, things changed. Dravid was easily India's best test batsman and he made a huge legacy based on that. The whole perception of Dravid changed after that. He is one of India's greatest test match winners.

Now coming to Rahane, his lack of hype is sad but its got nothing to do with heroes or stars. In this era, only bats who aremulti format players get the biggest hype.

Even foreign media doesn't hype Rahane as much as the top 4 (Kohli, Smith, Root, Williamson). Its unfair but that's how the world is looking at things.

 

[Slog]

Watched lot of matches and every time if there is collective batting line up failure, Younis goes missing in UAE. He is not like other batsman who can score even if all other batsmen fail. If pitches are bad enough for everyone else to fail then younis is also among them. Generally I see Misbah and other Pakistani batsmen fighting like lone warrior on such pitches.

lmao what. Thtas just not true if you look at the records

btw you do know that considering YK comes in at 4, normally if he scores that sets the tone for the rest and the whole team will eventually score big? I mean thats how batting works and thats why the best batsmne play #3,4 so as to avert a middle order collapse

 

[shaz619]

In 90s, Dravid used to score most of his runs at an SR of 30. He did perform in England and was good overseas but if you score at 30 and not control the game in any way, you will not get hype.

Dravid's SR is 1990s - 37, 36, 37, 42

Average in 40s.

Who would get hype for that? They would be regarded as a good test player which Dravid was.

But from 2000, things changed. Dravid was easily India's best test batsman and he made a huge legacy based on that. The whole perception of Dravid changed after that. He is one of India's greatest test match winners.

Now coming to Rahane, his lack of hype is sad but its got nothing to do with heroes or stars. In this era, only bats who aremulti format players get the biggest hype.

Even foreign media doesn't hype Rahane as much as the top 4 (Kohli, Smith, Root, Williamson). Its unfair but that's how the world is looking at things.

I have ignored the 90's, Dravid was green then he came into his own in the 2000's. Mamooh was advocating that given the decent starts to the careers of Root/Williamson they are destined for greatness, it's good you gave this example of Dravid; like you said, who'd have thought he'd become an ATG? A good start doesn't necessarily indicate that players will dominate in the long run, Dravid improved, adapted and evolved with experience.

That's probably true but the other thing is, Kohli got a better mainstream gimmick then Rahane so he also has more followers due to that. The C level bollywood gf, the beard he copied from shehzad and that electric shock hair cut seemed to have bought him many admirers in addition to the limited over performances. Rahane is a simple guy, decent gentleman; works hard, not really fond of the camera; silently accumulating one hell of a career instead of developing a false sense of confidence

 

[AlizeeFan]

lmao what. Thtas just not true if you look at the records

btw you do know that considering YK comes in at 4, normally if he scores that sets the tone for the rest and the whole team will eventually score big? I mean thats how batting works and thats why the best batsmne play #3,4 so as to avert a middle order collapse

Well I posted the records, someone said you should watch the match.

What you are saying is right. He scores runs and sets the tone for the rest. That's why it would be unfair for to expect lot of innings like that, but lack of such inning indicates that something is missing.

 

[AlizeeFan]

That's probably true but the other thing is, Kohli got a better mainstream gimmick then Rahane so he also has more followers due to that. The C level bollywood gf, the beard he copied from shehzad and that electric shock hair cut seemed to have bought him many admirers in addition to the limited over performances. Rahane is a simple guy, decent gentleman; works hard, not really fond of the camera; silently accumulating one hell of a career instead of developing a false sense of confidence

Kohli is quite similar to YK with his test batsman. Scoring big on flat decks in Asia and overseas. Scoring runs where there is pressure (4th inning in Aus) and goes missing when team is getting bundled out for low scores.

He is younger version of YK atm.

 

[Slog]

Well I posted the records, someone said you should watch the match.

What you are saying is right. He scores runs and sets the tone for the rest. That's why it would be unfair for to expect lot of innings like that, but lack of such inning indicates that something is missing.

i mean theres been a ton of instances where he cam at under 20 for 2 and scored

a better measure to see would be what the score is at his time of entry. and its not been often that he is coming at 150+ on the board

 

[AlizeeFan]

i mean theres been a ton of instances where he cam at under 20 for 2 and scored

a better measure to see would be what the score is at his time of entry. and its not been often that he is coming at 150+ on the board

Let me rephrase it - if you see 9 or 10 batsmen failing for Pakistan in UAE, you can easily guess that successful batsman won't be YK.

 

[Bilal7]

Kohli is quite similar to YK with his test batsman. Scoring big on flat decks in Asia and overseas. Scoring runs where there is pressure (4th inning in Aus) and goes missing when team is getting bundled out for low scores.

He is younger version of YK atm.

Kohli does not have even 20% of Younis Khan's ability to score big. Even on the flat pitches that he has played, Kohli has rarely plundered big runs. Nor is he anywhere near as proficient against spin and when is the last time he won his team a match with the bat?

You may be right because I didn't watch much of the NZ series, but the little that I saw, it was turning considerably. Certainly more so than it does in the UAE.

The pitches for the South Africa and Australia series were outrageous though.

You are completely right but there is no point in discussing Indian pitches with Indian posters. They are unable to hold an unbiased opinion in regards to their pitches. "But, but, but Bangalore wasn't a rank-turner..." Despite the fact that only four or five sessions of play were possible on that pitch and no one knows how it would behave come day three, four and five.

 

[The_Odd_One]

and just to add if Pak is dismissed below 340 in this inn against WI, this will be first time in UAE that Younis Khan will have a fifty in matches where Pakistan is dismissed below 340

Asad Shafiq has a century, Misbah has few fifties, even Hafeez has some innings when Pakistan were dominated by opposition in UAE, but Younis is doing it for first time here.

He scores big when ball isn't turning sharply, but that's the advantage with him and he does it consistently. However credit should be given to other batsmen for leading the pack in adverse scenarios.

This has to be the most selective stats I have ever seen someone come up with.

First, why 340 as team total and second, why the UAE only?

2nd test in SA, Pakistan got out on 338 and Younis scored 111.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/567364.html

1st Test in Zimbabwe, Pakistan scored 249 in first inning and Zimbabwe scored 327. Younis scored a double century in the 3rd inning which took the game away from Zimbabwe. The next highest score in that inning was 64 by Adnan Akmal.

The stats you posted are completely useless and the only things they show are:

1. Pakistan's batting is extremely reliant on Younis
2. Younis had an amazing conversion rate. When he crosses 50, he usually scores a big 100 and takes his team past 350.

 

[AlizeeFan]

This has to be the most selective stats I have ever seen someone come up with.

First, why 340 as team total and second, why the UAE only?

Why UAE only? For that read the thread and the context in which comment was made. There was discussion about UAE tests.

Why team total 340? That's the highest score till which his contributions are missing.

 

[OS_89]

They were.

They absolutely were not rank turners at all. They were pretty flat for first 3 days and wore out after that. Even Australia manged a couple of good first innings scores. Only Delhi was a true rank turner. Same for SA series. Only Nagpur was a minefield. Rest were standard subcontinental pitches which assisted spin. Not outrageous bunsen burners.

 

[shaz619]

Kohli is quite similar to YK with his test batsman. Scoring big on flat decks in Asia and overseas. Scoring runs where there is pressure (4th inning in Aus) and goes missing when team is getting bundled out for low scores.

He is younger version of YK atm.

Kohli didn't average 66 in England like Younis did, and that was before Younis developed into an ATG. Kohli is best compared to a Cola version of Sehwag

 

[AlizeeFan]

Kohli didn't average 66 in England like Younis did, and that was before Younis developed into an ATG. Kohli is best compared to a Cola version of Sehwag

YK didn't average 50+ in Aus and SA like Kohli. But they are still very similar.

 

[Itachi]

This why yk isn't even a great.

He piles up runs and goes blank for next few innings. Then again plays an innings that even Tendu could dream about.

Too much inconsistent.

 

[shaz619]

YK didn't average 50+ in Aus and SA like Kohli. But they are still very similar.

Kohli scored runs on flat pitches, YK didn't get to play in AUS during his prime. Kohli is a poor mans sehwag

 

[Napa]

Am not so sure about that, your best bat Rahane is criminally underrated and doesn't get an inch of credit. It's like how Dravid did all the hard work and Sachin took all the glory. Still, perhaps we don't really talk about Rahane because its widely accepted that he's brilliant.

You seem to have an obsession with Kohli and bring him into unrelated discussions. However, to answer your question about Kohli and Rahane, the fact is that Kohli wins us a lot of LOIs which Rahane does not. In fact Rahane has cost India LOIs, like the SF of the last WT20, his slower strike rate left India with 10 to 20 runs less than what it could have scored. If Test cricket was the only form of cricket played Rahane would have got as much attention as Kohli. The other fact is that if you watch Kohli playing, you just seem to perceive that he has the talent to enable him to not be beaten by the bowler whatever the condition may be. It appears that he doesn't apply himself enough in Test matches but that seems to be changing now.

 

[Napa]

You seem to have an obsession with Kohli and bring him into unrelated discussions. However, to answer your question about Kohli and Rahane, the fact is that Kohli wins us a lot of LOIs which Rahane does not. In fact Rahane has cost India LOIs, like the SF of the last WT20, his slower strike rate left India with 10 to 20 runs less than what it could have scored. If Test cricket was the only form of cricket played Rahane would have got as much attention as Kohli. <b>The other fact is that if you watch Kohli playing, you just seem to perceive that he has the talent to enable him to not be beaten by the bowler whatever the condition may be. It appears that he doesn't apply himself enough in Test matches but that seems to be changing now.</b>

Combination of ability and personality. The ability to beat any bowler, any team once he applies himself.

 

[Lopuy]

Smith, Kohli and Williamson have surpassed Yk in terms of performances.
Yk was great for pakistan in asia but wasn't so good outside asia, so was considered pakistani ATG only. These players are on their way to ATG status.

 

[Ab Fan]

Root and Kane are successful in all formats, also being great in tests. So, obviously that makes a stronger case for them.

However, Younis is without any doubt a brilliant test player and arguably the third greatest batsmen to come from Pakistan. He is a tier above Yousuf, Anwar, Zaheer and Hanif in test cricket and hence their odi exploits are not enough to be rated them a superior player than the ever-smiling Khan.

 

[QalandarFan]

Younis Khan is an ATG in the test format hands down. Guy was in his 40's hitting biiiiiiiiiigggggg hundreds in England and Australia. This dudes hunger for runs was unmatched almost every time he got settled he went big. Plus the way he played spin was just surreal, there is no one in world cricket today who could play spin like him, gone are the days of those surreal players of spin that both Pakistan and India had.