Younis Khan versus Virat Kohli in Tests

[Firebolt007]

Younis Khan has got much better stats than Virat Kohli in Tests.
Younis Khan

FORMAT	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100s	50s	4s	6s	Ct	St
Tests	118	213	19	10099	313	52.05	19375	52.12	34	33	1082	70	139	0

Virat Kohli

FORMAT	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100s	50s	4s	6s	Ct	St
Tests	111	187	11	8676	254*	49.29	15708	55.23	29	29	966	24	110	0

Who is the better Test cricketer?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Younis khan in my opinion. But I will not take the credit away from King Kohli. He is one of his kind.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Equals.

Younis has great test record but he often had mega hundreds with string of failures.

Virat has few iconic knocks but never could eclipse Younis test pedigree.

 

[Hitman]

There have been threads by Pak posters suggesting how Younis is better than Sachin. So who is Kohli in comparison!

 

[Dr_Bassim]

There have been threads by Pak posters suggesting how Younis is better than Sachin. So who is Kohli in comparison!

Realistically though, Younis is not better than Sachin.

Better than Kohli in Tests is debatable but both can at least exchange blows in Test arena.

ITs in all formats that Kohli leaves Younis in dust.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Kohli has some 12 test 100s in SENA countries, take that into consideration as well.

Younis is statistically better but played in a more batting friendly era. Ashwin and Jadeja have superior records to Shane Warne, but nobody calls them better. Warne is the GOAT. Bumrah has a better test record than so many ATGs.

 

[topspin]

I'm a big Younis Khan fan but if we take away our green tinted lenses and actually look at their stats with some context. You can't judge who's better just by looking at their career test averages.

Younis Khan is certainly an ATG player of spin and he was therefore able to take full advantage of all those tests he played in UAE.

Younis Khan is the better player of spin and his ability to score big hundreds (150+ knocks) is also superior but that's where the comparison stops.

He's not played enough test SENAs nor has he played enough match winning knocks outside in these conditions like Kohli has for me to consider him superior.

Kohli is well ahead technically and also with how he's fared across on all surfaces. Kohli's would be averaging mid 50s (at the very least) if he had the opportunity to play as many tests in the UAE instead of India.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Younis Khan. I have witnessed his class batting and his resilient character. He was technically very sound and had ability to convert 100 to 200 & 200 to 300 effortlessly

 

[kron]

Easily Younis. People overrated kohli alot. Closer look at his record away from home in sena will surprise you. Rarely ever has he played a match winning knock in sena that helped India win a series.

 

[owenhcricket]

Younis Khan is the superior test bat and he did a large chunk of that at 3 and is one of the greatest ever in that position.

 

[kron]

Younis Khan is the superior test bat and he did a large chunk of that at 3 and is one of the greatest ever in that position.

Record speaks for himself.
Younis is above kohli. Kohli's true ability declined as soon he got figured out. He is a flat track bully.

 

[Mesozoic]

Both of them average the same in SENA (43) despite YK playing in an era of batter friendly conditions in Test cricket. Kohli has 11 hundreds in SENA while YK has 5.

Younis got to play all of his home games on the roads of Pakistan and UAE while Kohli played in India mostly on some of the most spin friendly wickets ever produced in the history of Test Cricket.

Therea are many more nuances to cricket (especially Test cricket) than just going full on primary school mathematics and say 53 > 49.

 

[Bilal7]

A silly comparison. Younis Khan is an ATG in test cricket while Kohli is simply not on that level.

Most of Kohli's runs have been soft and haven't led to India winning anything. This is despite the fact that he's batted with some of the best batsmen in the world while Khan was one of the best in the world and batted with Taufeeq Umar, Azhar Ali and Asad Shafique.

The stats don't show how big of a gap there is between the two.

 

[Bilal7]

And oh of course, an average barely over 30 in the world test championship finals with zero fifties or 100s.

And you're comparing him to someone with legendary mental strength and ability to handle pressure.

 

[Ab Fan]

Younis in Asia, Mr. Kohli in SENA.

 

[Marooned]

There have been threads by Pak posters suggesting how Younis is better than Sachin. So who is Kohli in comparison!

"Who is kohli in comparison"

Do you think Sachin is that much better than Kohli? Or where do you think he stands in comparison?

 

[kron]

Younis in Asia, Mr. Kohli in SENA.

Even that is questionable.
His record in England and nz is nothing amazing.

Even in Australia he benefited from ultra flat pitches in 2014 series where he was actually dropped a few times. I appreciate his mental fortitude to score bucket loads of runs but he dint score any match winning knock that helped india win a series in Sena.

Bg series wins happened mostly due to India's bowling and pujara pant. Kohli only averaged 39 or 30 in 2018 and just 38 odd in that one game he played in 2021.

Failed again in 2022 away in south africa when the team needed him.

Infact all good things seem to happen when he doesn't play. India won 2021 series once he left. Failure in wtc final twice. Could never step up in crucial games.
Failed again in nz prior to the wtc in the first run. You could argue due to lack of prep but regardless his technique is flawed vs the moving ball.

Even in England it was again the bowlers, pant and rohit that stepped up. Kohli was a no show.

He had one great peak in 2018 where he scored bucket load of runs. Even in tough conditions back in India, he failed miserably vs australia in 2017 and again in 2023 by the way. That last test being an aberration where india had already won the series abd prepared an ultra flat pitch so kohli can pad up his stats.

Overall Younis looks comfortably better vs turn/spin, better against moving ball as well. Even against pace Younis is no slouch. Kohli is only superior against in bouncy wickets but even there he has struggled since 2018. He averages a meagre 29 for the last 3 years or so.

 

[Hawkeye]

Younis “UAE” Khan you mean?

Kohli any day as he’s better all over the world and against better bowling.

However they’re pretty close if we talk about flat pitches only or where the ball turns slightly.

This doesn’t mean though that Kohli is a great Test bat specially in SENA. He isn’t. Often struggles vs swing.

 

[Mesozoic]

Kohli with his immense fitness levels would have retired with a Test average of 65+ (best since Bradman) had he played mostly on the highways of UAE and Pakistan.

Enough said .

 

[Mercurial]

I believe that anyone with a Test batting average below 50 is not to be considered a great Test batsman, with the exception of Kevin Pietersen, who demonstrated exceptional dominance against arguably the greatest team of all time. Therefore, I hold the view that Younus Khan surpasses Virat Kohli in Test cricket

 

[ArabKnight]

Younis Khan was a good batsman and good captain. There still exists a void in the batting lineup for Pakistan. He is a missing piece.

If Misbah can play at 47, why can’t Younis? Bring him back for Asia Tests.

 

[Ab Fan]

Even that is questionable.
His record in England and nz is nothing amazing.

Even in Australia he benefited from ultra flat pitches in 2014 series where he was actually dropped a few times. I appreciate his mental fortitude to score bucket loads of runs but he dint score any match winning knock that helped india win a series in Sena.

Bg series wins happened mostly due to India's bowling and pujara pant. Kohli only averaged 39 or 30 in 2018 and just 38 odd in that one game he played in 2021.

Failed again in 2022 away in south africa when the team needed him.

Infact all good things seem to happen when he doesn't play. India won 2021 series once he left. Failure in wtc final twice. Could never step up in crucial games.
Failed again in nz prior to the wtc in the first run. You could argue due to lack of prep but regardless his technique is flawed vs the moving ball.

Even in England it was again the bowlers, pant and rohit that stepped up. Kohli was a no show.

He had one great peak in 2018 where he scored bucket load of runs. Even in tough conditions back in India, he failed miserably vs australia in 2017 and again in 2023 by the way. That last test being an aberration where india had already won the series abd prepared an ultra flat pitch so kohli can pad up his stats.

Overall Younis looks comfortably better vs turn/spin, better against moving ball as well. Even against pace Younis is no slouch. Kohli is only superior against in bouncy wickets but even there he has struggled since 2018. He averages a meagre 29 for the last 3 years or so.

Kohli is comfortably better than Younis outside Asia. The pitches on which both have batted is itself a huge difference.

Stats are one thing just like we don't follow them when talking about Ashwin or Jadeja but if you have watched the full fledged career of both, it's pretty easy to say Kohli is comfortably better than Khan outside Asia. Otherwise, Jadeja> Kapil, Botham as all rounder and Ashwin = Hadlee.

 

[kron]

Kohli is comfortably better than Younis outside Asia. The pitches on which both have batted is itself a huge difference.

Stats are one thing just like we don't follow them when talking about Ashwin or Jadeja but if you have watched the full fledged career of both, it's pretty easy to say Kohli is comfortably better than Khan outside Asia. Otherwise, Jadeja> Kapil, Botham as all rounder and Ashwin = Hadlee.

Not really. I disagree with this notion. Outside 2018 and a few tours he has been pretty average.

 

[saqib.rai]

Don't know about comparison with Kohli as I only know Kohli the test player from stats.

However, Younis > Yousaf
Younis > Inzimam
Younis> Misbah

The greatest test batsman in our history. Never saw Miandad so cant compare.

But Younis was an equally pathetic ODI player. Played 250+ ODIs based on test record.

 

[NishanKonar]

"Who is kohli in comparison"

Do you think Sachin is that much better than Kohli? Or where do you think he stands in comparison?

In test cricket Sachin is streets ahead of Kohli. Was equally good in hardy bouncy conditions like Australia / South Africa as well as on green seaming conditions ( England / New Zealand )

Kohli had a great series in England in 2018 but is generally a bit suspect in green seaming conditions

in ODIs I wud rate Kohli ahead of Sachin

 

[NishanKonar]

Don't know about comparison with Kohli as I only know Kohli the test player from stats.

However, Younis > Yousaf
Younis > Inzimam
Younis> Misbah

The greatest test batsman in our history. Never saw Miandad so cant compare.

But Younis was an equally pathetic ODI player. Played 250+ ODIs based on test record.

Inzimam was far better than Younis against pace & swing. Younis was always suspect in conditions favoring seamers. He was mostly a flat track bully

Younis & Yousuf were very similar

 

[kron]

In test cricket Sachin is streets ahead of Kohli. Was equally good in hardy bouncy conditions like Australia / South Africa as well as on green seaming conditions ( England / New Zealand )

Kohli had a great series in England in 2018 but is generally a bit suspect in green seaming conditions

in ODIs I wud rate Kohli ahead of Sachin

What basis would you put kohli above Sachin?

Even in odi world cups Sachin average much higher. Not to mention he played with weaker bowling line ups of india.

Even with quality Indian fast bowlers kohli never stood up when it mattered.

 

[saqib.rai]

In test cricket Sachin is streets ahead of Kohli. Was equally good in hardy bouncy conditions like Australia / South Africa as well as on green seaming conditions ( England / New Zealand )

Kohli had a great series in England in 2018 but is generally a bit suspect in green seaming conditions

in ODIs I wud rate Kohli ahead of Sachin

Sachin and Viv Richards are the two greatest ODI batsmen of all time.

Compare Sachin's record with Ponting, Lara, Sangakkara, Kallis, Dravid, Ganguly, Inzimam and you would find that is his strike of 86 is 5 more than the second best on the list of players with average above 40 in that era. Ponting is second I think with 81.

Same for Viv Richards. Head and shoulders above batsmen of his era.

In case of Kohli, his record is comparable to Rohit, de Villiers, Babar. He doesn't stand out like Sachin does.

Plus Kohli peaked from 2014 to 2019 in ODIs but the 3 most important ODIs India played in this time period:
2015 WC semi vs Australia
2017 CT final vs Pakistan
2019 WC semi vs New Zealand

Virat Kohli got out in single digits in all 3 and India lost all 3 matches. Interestingly all 3 were chases, so much for being the CHASE MASTER lol

 

[Mamoon]

Nothing comparison.

Kohli is clear of any batsman Pakistan has ever produced in any format.

 

[mominsaigol]

There have been threads by Pak posters suggesting how Younis is better than Sachin. So who is Kohli in comparison!

Tbf, Younis khan is far far superior a test player then Kohli in Asian conditions only.

In Asian conditions he's basically dominated world class bowling in test and played knocks kohli can't.

But kohli outperforms younis is nearly every other conditions in test. In terms of odi, kohli has made bowlers literally fear him in his prime and has made 350 totals child's plays to chase. Younis was a garbage odi player.

But gotta give younis credit. The dude was a beast of a test player in Asia.

 

[Farabi]

Nothing comparison.

Kohli is clear of any batsman Pakistan has ever produced in any format.

Nothing stance.
Claiming that Pakistani batters can never match the pedigree of Indian batters solely based on nationality oversimplifies the complex factors behind talent and success. While India benefits from a larger population, superior coaching, and facilities, it's crucial to acknowledge that Pakistan has also produced outstanding batters. Zaheer Abbas outperformed any Indian batter in ODIs until Sachin Tendulkar's era, and Miandad's remarkable test cricket records surpass many of Kohli's accomplishments. I doubt you have seen these 2 GOATs bat flesh and blood to be making these types of comments.
Generalizations based on nationality ignore the nuanced interplay of skills, dedication, and opportunities that contribute to a player's greatness, making such arguments logically flawed. There is a term that is used to describe this phenomenon but I’ll leave it at this.

 

[mominsaigol]

Nothing comparison.

Kohli is clear of any batsman Pakistan has ever produced in any format.

Kohli isn't superior to zaheer abass. I've seen clips of abass playing. Kohli wouldn't Average 40+ in an era where bats are super thin, bowlers are bowling 6 bouncers an over and the wides are super generous since the 1st line doesn't even exist, along with lenient field restrictions + Longer boundaries.

Zaheer was easily the 2nd best player of that era 1st being viv Richards. Scoring a century and striking at 100+ is easier then ever now.

Even pointing is superior to Kohli as a bat. However kohli is easily top 10 batsmen of all time no doubt. But viv and zaheer abass are different beasts altogether.

 

[mominsaigol]

Nothing stance.
Claiming that Pakistani batters can never match the pedigree of Indian batters solely based on nationality oversimplifies the complex factors behind talent and success. While India benefits from a larger population, superior coaching, and facilities, it's crucial to acknowledge that Pakistan has also produced outstanding batters. Zaheer Abbas outperformed any Indian batter in ODIs until Sachin Tendulkar's era, and Miandad's remarkable test cricket records surpass many of Kohli's accomplishments. I doubt you have seen these 2 GOATs bat flesh and blood to be making these types of comments.
Generalizations based on nationality ignore the nuanced interplay of skills, dedication, and opportunities that contribute to a player's greatness, making such arguments logically flawed. There is a term that is used to describe this phenomenon but I’ll leave it at this.

I think most posters don't understand how difficult it was to actually score in those eras, An avwrage of 40+ and a strike rate of 80 that viv Richards and zaheer abass could pull off would be impossible for any batsmen in this era.

Try batting with paper thin bats, 6 bouncers an over, An extremely extremely generous wides, longer boundaries and very light field restrictions, + only one ball so reverse swing was a million times more lethal.

Now Adays batsmen are spoon fed lol, wides are overly harsh, bouncers are restricted, fielding restrictions are easier for the batsmen and boundaries are easier. Boundary ropes didn't use to exist back in the day, hitting a 4 was 10x harder because you had to actually hit it to the fence.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Younis is being criminaly underrated.

The UAE as a venue is also being criminaly underrated.

Go back in time and look at the scores in the matches played in the UAE.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Kohli with his immense fitness levels would have retired with a Test average of 65+ (best since Bradman) had he played mostly on the highways of UAE and Pakistan.

Enough said .

Interestingly your hypothetical scenario still results in an average less than Younis Khans actual average in India.

 

[mominsaigol]

Younis is being criminaly underrated.

The UAE as a venue is also being criminaly underrated.

Go back in time and look at the scores in the matches played in the UAE.

Younis is superior in test in Asia to kohli I agree.

Kohli is superior in other conditions and in odi.

I think pakpassion praises kohli a bit too much. Kohli is class but he isn't the be all of cricket.

Viv Richards, Ab De Villiers , Zaheer Abass, Younis khan( In test Asian conditons), Johnny bairstow (In English conditions only), Ricky pointing, Sachin Tendulkar

These lads are all superior to kohli, people think kohli is no 1 bat of all time though.

 

[shamaan]

Kohli is comfortably better than Younis outside Asia. The pitches on which both have batted is itself a huge difference.

Stats are one thing just like we don't follow them when talking about Ashwin or Jadeja but if you have watched the full fledged career of both, it's pretty easy to say Kohli is comfortably better than Khan outside Asia. Otherwise, Jadeja> Kapil, Botham as all rounder and Ashwin = Hadlee.

How is Kohli better outside of of Asia he averages less than 35 in England.

 

[shamaan]

Younis Khan is the most underrated cricketer and is better than Kohli.

 

[Major]

A very good thread and a comparison that actually matches. There is argument in favor of both batters. For all those posters coming into this thread making cliche comments that its a silly comparison or a nothing comparison, this is actually one of the best comparison threads i have ever came across.

Credit to OP for starting this topic.

As for the topic, really hard to come up with a conclusion here. I wont add my point because I never watched Kohli bat a single ball in test cricket. Even what i saw him in odis was against Pakistan and not other games, and that is what it is for majority of the posters, whether Pakistani or Indian.

While Younis Khan had a habit of jumping around and often making low scores in games overseas, he sure did make big hundreds. However, Younis was not consistent. I wonder if Kohli is consistent in Test, if Kohli is than the one who is consistent wins this comparison.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Younis Khan is the most underrated cricketer and is better than Kohli.

In tests yeah?

 

[NishanKonar]

How is Kohli better outside of of Asia he averages less than 35 in England.

This is probl;em with stats. It does not mention the context

Kohli scored loads of runs in 2018 in England in difficult conditions. Younis Khan was always hopping & skipping on such pitches. He did score a double century at Oval but that pitch was a road

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli isn't superior to zaheer abass. I've seen clips of abass playing. Kohli wouldn't Average 40+ in an era where bats are super thin, bowlers are bowling 6 bouncers an over and the wides are super generous since the 1st line doesn't even exist, along with lenient field restrictions + Longer boundaries.

Zaheer was easily the 2nd best player of that era 1st being viv Richards. Scoring a century and striking at 100+ is easier then ever now.

Even pointing is superior to Kohli as a bat. However kohli is easily top 10 batsmen of all time no doubt. But viv and zaheer abass are different beasts altogether.

Sure, but I hope you are going to be comfortable applying this logic to the bowlers as well.

By this logic, modern fast bowlers are much better than the older era fast bowlers because modern fast bowlers are bowling in an era with thick bats, bouncer restrictions, wides are not generous, field restrictions and short boundaries.

Kohli wouldn’t average 40+ in Zaheer Khan era just like Wasim Akram, Imran Khan, Waqar, Holding, Marshall, Lillee, Roberts etc. wouldn’t average below 35 in today’s era.

If you are going to downplay the achievements of modern era batsmen for XYZ reasons then you have to downplay the achievements of older era bowlers for XYZ reasons, but no one does that because it is uncomfortable.

I’m fine with Zaheer Abbas > Kohli as long as you also extend the same logic and conclude that Bumrah > Imran and Shaheen > Wasim.

PS: I don’t believe that Bumrah > Imran and Shaheen > Wasim, but that is because I also don’t believe that Zaheer Abbas > Kohli, because I don’t do this big/thin bats, boundaries size and rules etc. rubbish.

It is fine to do this rubbish but the problem is that people apply it to batsmen only. They want you to believe that the standard of both batting and bowling has dropped which is comical.

 

[Mamoon]

Nothing stance.
Claiming that Pakistani batters can never match the pedigree of Indian batters solely based on nationality oversimplifies the complex factors behind talent and success. While India benefits from a larger population, superior coaching, and facilities, it's crucial to acknowledge that Pakistan has also produced outstanding batters. Zaheer Abbas outperformed any Indian batter in ODIs until Sachin Tendulkar's era, and Miandad's remarkable test cricket records surpass many of Kohli's accomplishments. I doubt you have seen these 2 GOATs bat flesh and blood to be making these types of comments.
Generalizations based on nationality ignore the nuanced interplay of skills, dedication, and opportunities that contribute to a player's greatness, making such arguments logically flawed. There is a term that is used to describe this phenomenon but I’ll leave it at this.

The delusion is strong.

Miandad would average 10 points less without home umpiring and he averaged 29 against West Indies.

Kohli plays in an era where there is no home umpiring advantage, he doesn’t average 29 against the best team of his era.

Kohli is a better batsman than anyone Pakistan has produced. Accept it or not, it will not change the reality. No more discussion on this.

 

[Hitman]

The delusion is strong.

Miandad would average 10 points less without home umpiring and he averaged 29 against West Indies.

Kohli plays in an era where there is no home umpiring advantage, he doesn’t average 29 against the best team of his era.

Kohli is a better batsman than anyone Pakistan has produced. Accept it or not, it will not change the reality. No more discussion on this.

The man has 5 MOM awards in 124 Tests.

 

[kron]

I think most posters don't understand how difficult it was to actually score in those eras, An avwrage of 40+ and a strike rate of 80 that viv Richards and zaheer abass could pull off would be impossible for any batsmen in this era.

Try batting with paper thin bats, 6 bouncers an over, An extremely extremely generous wides, longer boundaries and very light field restrictions, + only one ball so reverse swing was a million times more lethal.

Now Adays batsmen are spoon fed lol, wides are overly harsh, bouncers are restricted, fielding restrictions are easier for the batsmen and boundaries are easier. Boundary ropes didn't use to exist back in the day, hitting a 4 was 10x harder because you had to actually hit it to the fence.

That would also mean current bowlers are better. Based on your logic. It applies both ways.

Not saying I disagree with your notion per se but the above needs to be factored into the equation as well.

 

[NishanKonar]

Zaheer Abbas was a prolific run scorer but most of hiis runs came in Asia or England. He struggled badly against pace & bounce - thats why his record against West Indies & Australia was poor. in fact Ian Chappel once said that Zaheer seemed to back away while facing bowlers like Lillee / Holding / Roberts bcoz he seemed scared of pace

There is no way Zaheer Abbas was 2nd best batter of his era. That was Greg Chappel. In fact players like Alan Border, Gundappa Visvanath, Alan Lamb were far better against pace & bounce

 

[kron]

Tbf, Younis khan is far far superior a test player then Kohli in Asian conditions only.

In Asian conditions he's basically dominated world class bowling in test and played knocks kohli can't.

But kohli outperforms younis is nearly every other conditions in test. In terms of odi, kohli has made bowlers literally fear him in his prime and has made 350 totals child's plays to chase. Younis was a garbage odi player.

But gotta give younis credit. The dude was a beast of a test player in Asia.

How many of the so called 350 chases were against full strength teams though? No comparison between kohli and Younis in odi as kohli is light years ahead but its a myth that kohli performed in crucial stages of odi world cups against quality attacks.

 

[NishanKonar]

The best way to evaluate great batsmen is how they perform against best bowling attacks of their era

That wud be West Indies in the 70s & 80s
Australia in the 2000s & 2010s
South Africa in the 2010s

Now check Zaheer Abbas record against West Indies
Then check Younis Khan record against Australia / South Africa
Then check Kohli's record against Australia / South Africa

You will know which guy was the real deal!

 

[Farabi]

The delusion is strong.

Miandad would average 10 points less without home umpiring and he averaged 29 against West Indies.

Kohli plays in an era where there is no home umpiring advantage, he doesn’t average 29 against the best team of his era.

Kohli is a better batsman than anyone Pakistan has produced. Accept it or not, it will not change the reality. No more discussion on this.

I continue to think that Zaheer Abbas was a top class batter in his own right. He averaged 47 in ODIs with a SR of 85 in the 70s/80s. No Indian batter came close to the kind of impact in ODIS before Sachin landed on the scene.

As for Kohli, he averages 33 in Englang as well. You likely haven’t seen Miandad and his impact in test cricket to even compare him to home bully Kohli. Kohli is a GOAT ODI batter but even Indians rate him behind guys like Dravid and Sachin. He simply hasn’t had much of an impact outside India and Australia in test cricket.

I also do not agree that Pak can NEVER produce a batter that is comparable to or better than Kohli.

It’s true that India does produce quality batters every year or 2, whereas Pakistan will produce one every generation or so. And general quality is higher. It’s ludicrous to say that no Pakistani batter can compare or surpass in future. No one has a crystal ball.

 

[Hitman]

I continue to think that Zaheer Abbas was a top class batter in his own right. He averaged 47 in ODIs with a SR of 85 in the 70s/80s. No Indian batter came close to the kind of impact in ODIS before Sachin landed on the scene.

As for Kohli, he averages 33 in Englang as well. You likely haven’t seen Miandad and his impact in test cricket to even compare him to home bully Kohli. Kohli is a GOAT ODI batter but even Indians rate him behind guys like Dravid and Sachin. He simply hasn’t had much of an impact outside India and Australia in test cricket.

I also do not agree that Pak can NEVER produce a batter that is comparable to or better than Kohli.

It’s true that India does produce quality batters every year or 2, whereas Pakistan will produce one every generation or so. And general quality is higher. It’s ludicrous to say that no Pakistani batter can compare or surpass in future. No one has a crystal ball.

That was in 60 ODI innings.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

This discussion has evolved from how Kohli is a superior batsmen to Younis to how Kohli is less than Miandad or Zaheer Abbas.

That gives one clue of how you have to go back 30-40 years to try to come up with a batsmen who 90 percent of the people havent seen play and try to prove he is better than Kohli to somehow win the debate.

Just like Bradman vs Tendulkar argument.

Secondly, the fact that Kohli is the only constant figure while remaining batsmen are compared to his performances usually is a telling story.

On topic, again Younis vs Kohli in tests could go either way depending on who you prefer. Younis used to have a string of poor scores followed by prolific knocks. Kohli used to have some exceptional knocks followed by some meek innings as well. You can dissect stats as much as you want but you cant go wrong with either in the Test arena.

But when you add Kohlis ODI exploits he leaves Younis in dust.

When you compare Kohli as a package, I dont think any Pakistani batsmen FOR now can claim to be better.

And the funny thing is, Shubman Gill will probably eclipse Kohli.

 

[Ab Fan]

Top 10 Asian test batsman :-

Sunil Gavaskar
Sachin Tendulkar
Kumar Sangakkara
Rahul Dravid
Javed Miandad

Virat Kohli
Virender Sehwag
Younis Khan
Inzamam ul haq
Vijay Merchant

Others - Mahela Jayawardene,VVS Laxman, Vijay Hazare, Mohammad Yousuf, Mohammad Azharuddin, Aravinda de Silva.

 

[Bhaijaan]

There’s not a lot separating them in test cricket now. 4-5 years ago, Kohli was on a run. I expected him to retire with a test average of 55. But now it looks like he will be happy to retire at 45+.

As for Yoni, I have massive respect for him because he wasn’t a supreme talent or an exciting batter but he was gritty, a hard worker very much like Dravid. He earned himself 10,000 test runs, 34+ hundreds and a 50+ average.

Going to put Younis slightly above.

 

[Mesozoic]

Interestingly your hypothetical scenario still results in an average less than Younis Khans actual average in India.

I suggest you to read my post once again. This time slowly..

Here's a hint -

"Test average of 65+"

 

[Farabi]

That was in 60 ODI innings.

that’s a sizable sample size for ODI cricket for that era.

 

[Hitman]

that’s a sizable sample size for ODI cricket for that era.

No, it wasn't. I do rate Zaheer Abbas, not as much as others greats of his era like Viv, Sunny, G. Chappell, Border, etc. But advocating someone's numbers based on 60 ODI innings and then comparing with guys who played 300/400 ODI innings is a joke. A very good ODI batsman though.

 

[Mesozoic]

How is Kohli better outside of of Asia he averages less than 35 in England.

England is not the only country outside of Asia. There are others too...

Kohli averages 43 in Tests outside Asia.

Younis averages 42 in Tests outside Asia.

Kohli also has twice the number of centuries as YK outside Asia

And if we remove Zimbabwe for obvious reasons (Kohli never got to play Zim in Tests), Younis' average falls to 39...

43 vs 39 that too with the conditions being much more bowling friendly in SENA in the last 7-8 years (backed up by stats). How is this even a comparison at this point?


Kudos to Younis for padding his stats on the dead tracks of Pakistan and UAE which helped him end up with a 50+ average (commendable feat by the way) , but no-one with a sane unbiased mind would say YK is a better Test batter than Kohli. And if they do, it's just as absurd as saying Imam Ul Haq is a better ODI opener than Mathew Hayden and Adam Gilchrist...

 

[NishanKonar]

England is not the only country outside of Asia. There are others too...

Kohli averages 43 in Tests outside Asia.

Younis averages 42 in Tests outside Asia.

Kohli also has twice the number of centuries as YK outside Asia

And if we remove Zimbabwe for obvious reasons (Kohli never got to play Zim in Tests), Younis' average falls to 39...

43 vs 39 that too with the conditions being much more bowling friendly in SENA in the last 7-8 years (backed up by stats). How is this even a comparison at this point?


Kudos to Younis for padding his stats on the dead tracks of Pakistan and UAE which helped him end up with a 50+ average (commendable feat by the way) , but no-one with a sane unbiased mind would say YK is a better Test batter than Kohli. And if they do, it's just as absurd as saying Imam Ul Haq is

Its not just about how much Younis averaged in SENA. Its how he scored those runs. Most of those runs scored by Younis in SENA were on flat pitches. Like that double century at Oval which came on a dead pitch. But in the remainder of that series Younis just hopped & skipped around on the typical English style green seaming pitches.

Now look at the century Kohli scored in Wanderers in 2018. or the century at Perth in 2018. or the century in Birmingham in 2018. Those are the sort of batting performances that define greatness. Not easy tons on dead pitches !

Younis Khan , with all due respect, was a prolific statpadder

 

[Farabi]

No, it wasn't. I do rate Zaheer Abbas, not as much as others greats of his era like Viv, Sunny, G. Chappell, Border, etc. But advocating someone's numbers based on 60 ODI innings and then comparing with guys who played 300/400 ODI innings is a joke. A very good ODI batsman though.

I am not comparing Zaheer Abbas with the current generation as that wouldn’t make any sense. I am comparing Zaheer with his own generation. You seemed to have thrown some names but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Look at how many ODIs they played and look at their stats. Zaheer was a beast of an ODI player of that era. His aura was that of a Jos Butler today.

Sunil Gavaskar:
108 ODIs. Average is 35 and SR is 62.

Zaheer Abbas:
62 ODIs. Average 47 and SR 85.

Greg Chappell:
74 ODIs. Average: 40 and SR is 75.

Alan Border (played well into 1994 so not really apples to apples)
271 ODIs. Average 30 and SR is 71.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I suggest you to read my post once again. This time slowly..

Here's a hint -

"Test average of 65+"

Younis averages 70+ in India. He averages less in UAE and Pakistan than he does in India.

Yet you are saying Kohli would average a whole 15+ more over his whole career had he had the same chance as Younis of playing in UAE and Pak.

It's just not adding up.

In fact It's far more likely Younis would have averaged 65+ across his career had he had the luxury of batting in India.

 

[Hitman]

I am not comparing Zaheer Abbas with the current generation as that wouldn’t make any sense. I am comparing Zaheer with his own generation. You seemed to have thrown some names but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Look at how many ODIs they played and look at their stats. Zaheer was a beast of an ODI player of that era. His aura was that of a Jos Butler today.

Sunil Gavaskar:
108 ODIs. Average is 35 and SR is 62.

Zaheer Abbas:
62 ODIs. Average 47 and SR 85.

Greg Chappell:
74 ODIs. Average: 40 and SR is 75.

Alan Border (played well into 1994 so not really apples to apples)
271 ODIs. Average 30 and SR is 71.

I wasn't speaking of them merely in ODI cricket. Zaheer was a brilliant ODI cricketer, I have always accepted that.

 

[mominsaigol]

Sure, but I hope you are going to be comfortable applying this logic to the bowlers as well.

By this logic, modern fast bowlers are much better than the older era fast bowlers because modern fast bowlers are bowling in an era with thick bats, bouncer restrictions, wides are not generous, field restrictions and short boundaries.

Kohli wouldn’t average 40+ in Zaheer Khan era just like Wasim Akram, Imran Khan, Waqar, Holding, Marshall, Lillee, Roberts etc. wouldn’t average below 35 in today’s era.

If you are going to downplay the achievements of modern era batsmen for XYZ reasons then you have to downplay the achievements of older era bowlers for XYZ reasons, but no one does that because it is uncomfortable.

I’m fine with Zaheer Abbas > Kohli as long as you also extend the same logic and conclude that Bumrah > Imran and Shaheen > Wasim.

PS: I don’t believe that Bumrah > Imran and Shaheen > Wasim, but that is because I also don’t believe that Zaheer Abbas > Kohli, because I don’t do this big/thin bats, boundaries size and rules etc. rubbish.

It is fine to do this rubbish but the problem is that people apply it to batsmen only. They want you to believe that the standard of both batting and bowling has dropped which is comical.

I don't mind the logic being applied to bowlers but it is more easy to apply it to batsmen.

However again the thing is, someone like Joel garner did rely on constantly bowling that bouncer to get wickets something he wouldn't be able to do today.

Just like wasim akram kept relying on reverse swing over and over at the back end of the innings, something that would be less lethal today.

Reason I believe wasim akram or Glenn mcgrath are still better is because just watching them bowl, wasim has swung the new ball in a way that's yet to be replicated by others, Kohli who struggles with that outswing a bit early on and rohit who struggles with that inswing would be playing a 100x more lethal version against wasim.

As for Glenn mcgrath his line and length is unmatched, but these 2 and other bowlers of the old era would still have their wicket counts dramatically reduced if they were bowling today then they were in the previous era.

 

[Farabi]

I am not comparing Zaheer Abbas with the current generation as that wouldn’t make any sense. I am comparing Zaheer with his own generation. You seemed to have thrown some names but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Look at how many ODIs they played and look at their stats. Zaheer was a beast of an ODI player of that era. His aura was that of a Jos Butler today.

Sunil Gavaskar:
108 ODIs. Average is 35 and SR is 62.

Zaheer Abbas:
62 ODIs. Average 47 and SR 85.

Greg Chappell:
74 ODIs. Average: 40 and SR is 75.

Alan Border (played well into 1994 so not really apples to apples)
271 ODIs. Average 30 and SR is 71.

I am exclusively talking about ODI cricket.

Zaheer was undoubtedly the best ODI batter in Asia Until Sachin landed.
It could be argued that Saeed Anwar was neck to neck with Sachin until 1999/2000 in ODIs but from there there, Sachin went on a whole another level, while Saeed fizzled out.

 

[mominsaigol]

That would also mean current bowlers are better. Based on your logic. It applies both ways.

Not saying I disagree with your notion per se but the above needs to be factored into the equation as well.

Older bowlers would not be piling those insane wicket counts like they could back in the day as they would today,

Someone like Joel Garner would constantly be bowling bouncers 24/7 to get wickets, which he obviously can't do today.

Reason I say wasim akram is better is because his swing with the new ball is still unmatched, so even batsmen today would struggle as you saw how amir with an inferior inswing dismantled India in 2017. Same with Glenn mcgrath who has unmatched line and length and we know how important line and length is even in this era.

But yes, not every bowler in the old era is superior to the newer era like people believe.

Someone like bumrah is far far superior to some older bowlers like dennis lillie but obviously on paper denis is superior since it was easier to bowl in 1984

 

[VForVendetta]

I believe that anyone with a Test batting average below 50 is not to be considered a great Test batsman, with the exception of Kevin Pietersen, who demonstrated exceptional dominance against arguably the greatest team of all time. Therefore, I hold the view that Younus Khan surpasses Virat Kohli in Test cricket

So you don't consider Greenidge, Inzy, VVS & Sehwag as great test batsmen? That's interesting, would love to read your outputs regarding these gentlemen on why they are not great players.

 

[Hitman]

I am exclusively talking about ODI cricket.

Zaheer was undoubtedly the best ODI batter in Asia Until Sachin landed.
It could be argued that Saeed Anwar was neck to neck with Sachin until 1999/2000 in ODIs but from there there, Sachin went on a whole another level, while Saeed fizzled out.

Till 1997. Sachin scored 9 ODI centuries in 1998 alone.

 

[mominsaigol]

This discussion has evolved from how Kohli is a superior batsmen to Younis to how Kohli is less than Miandad or Zaheer Abbas.

That gives one clue of how you have to go back 30-40 years to try to come up with a batsmen who 90 percent of the people havent seen play and try to prove he is better than Kohli to somehow win the debate.

Just like Bradman vs Tendulkar argument.

Secondly, the fact that Kohli is the only constant figure while remaining batsmen are compared to his performances usually is a telling story.

On topic, again Younis vs Kohli in tests could go either way depending on who you prefer. Younis used to have a string of poor scores followed by prolific knocks. Kohli used to have some exceptional knocks followed by some meek innings as well. You can dissect stats as much as you want but you cant go wrong with either in the Test arena.

But when you add Kohlis ODI exploits he leaves Younis in dust.

When you compare Kohli as a package, I dont think any Pakistani batsmen FOR now can claim to be better.

And the funny thing is, Shubman Gill will probably eclipse Kohli.

I don't think miandad is superior.

I think only zaheer abass is. Its extremely difficult to average 47 and 85 Sr in that era, only viv was superior to zaheer in that era. Theirs a reason he's called the Asian batsmen.

With that being said, If people think kohli is superior to zaheer then by all means.

I like kohli, I think he's easily top 10 batsmen of all time, but I do believe viv, zaheer, Pointing, Sachin, and a few others are still vastly superior to kohli.

Problem with kohli is that with the exception of Pakistan I have also seen him play match losing innings but people seem to critise rizwan Day in amd day our but forget how poorly he played against England in the semi final and how badly England ended up butchering India.

A 50 of 42 deliveries in a t20 at no 3 is defo match losing

Not saying kohli is bad, just saying he isn't the be all and end all that people think he is.

Unless your talking about has been 2011 pointing, Ricky Pointing in his prime was getting Australia to 380 scores when 270 was the norm, same with viv, outright dominance in every game that kohli has yet to match.

Regardless kohli is 100× Superior to pretty much any Pakistani batsmen that has showed up since 2000 onwards.

 

[VForVendetta]

I am exclusively talking about ODI cricket.

Zaheer was undoubtedly the best ODI batter in Asia Until Sachin landed.
It could be argued that Saeed Anwar was neck to neck with Sachin until 1999/2000 in ODIs but from there there, Sachin went on a whole another level, while Saeed fizzled out.

I was always more of an Anwar fanboy rather than Sachin fanboy back in the good old 90's. But Anwar was never as good as Sachin in odi's, he was very good, one of the best of that era, but was never neck to neck with Sachin. Even during his glorious prime years of 96-00, he was at least one step behind Sachin.That's a cold harsh reality a lot of fans don't want to admit. However you are right in claiming Sachin was the best asian odi batsman to arrive after Abbas.Anwar was the closest, but still not one the same level. Azhar & Malik had shown glimpse of abilities but ofcourse both got corrupted & never reached even their 60% potential. Anwar actually got outperformed by Ganguly & Inzamam from 99 onwards.Ganguly was in particular an absolute beast in 98-03 years. One of the best peak odi period ever. He is seriously underrated as an odi batsman due to how mediocre he was in last 4 years. Also people kind of forgot his immense records after new toys like Rohit, Kohli & Dhawan arrived.

 

[VForVendetta]

I don't think miandad is superior.

I think only zaheer abass is. Its extremely difficult to average 47 and 85 Sr in that era, only viv was superior to zaheer in that era. Theirs a reason he's called the Asian batsmen.

With that being said, If people think kohli is superior to zaheer then by all means.

I like kohli, I think he's easily top 10 batsmen of all time, but I do believe viv, zaheer, Pointing, Sachin, and a few others are still vastly superior to kohli.

Problem with kohli is that with the exception of Pakistan I have also seen him play match losing innings but people seem to critise rizwan Day in amd day our but forget how poorly he played against England in the semi final and how badly England ended up butchering India.

A 50 of 42 deliveries in a t20 at no 3 is defo match losing

Not saying kohli is bad, just saying he isn't the be all and end all that people think he is.

Unless your talking about has been 2011 pointing, Ricky Pointing in his prime was getting Australia to 380 scores when 270 was the norm, same with viv, outright dominance in every game that kohli has yet to match.

Regardless kohli is 100× Superior to pretty much any Pakistani batsmen that has showed up since 2000 onwards.

The reason he was dubbed as "Asian Bradman" wasn't due to his outstanding odi records, it was due to his seemingly effortless ability to post massive test hundreds with ease. Particularly against India he used to smack daddy hundreds for fun. At least that's what I have always heard. So feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I think one of the main reasons why he doesn't get enough credits as a great odi batsman despite having those outstanding numbers are due to his perceived weakness against fast bowling. He used to absolutely bully spinners & trundlers, but against legitimate fast bowlers such as Aus & WI he wasn't that impressive. Viv & Greg were simply superlative players of fast bowling. Even his own teammates like Majid & Miandad were considered better against fast bowlers. So any comparison with Sachin or kohli also goes pale due to this reason.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I think comparing 2 players of different era is not a good thing to do. It will just make both of these greats look bad.

 

[Mercurial]

So you don't consider Greenidge, Inzy, VVS & Sehwag as great test batsmen? That's interesting, would love to read your outputs regarding these gentlemen on why they are not great players.

Test batsmen who average between 40 and 50 are good, but I wouldn't call them great. To be considered great, a Test batsman should average above 50. I don’t consider them ”great“

 

[Mesozoic]

Younis averages 70+ in India. He averages less in UAE and Pakistan than he does in India.

Yet you are saying Kohli would average a whole 15+ more over his whole career had he had the same chance as Younis of playing in UAE and Pak.

It's just not adding up.

In fact It's far more likely Younis would have averaged 65+ across his career had he had the luxury of batting in India.

Zero surprises that you've conveniently ignored the elephant in the room here. The Indian wickets on which Younis Khan plundered runs are as similar to the ones Kohli played on for the most part of his career as elephants and chameleons.

 

[Mesozoic]

Test batsmen who average between 40 and 50 are good, but I wouldn't call them great. To be considered great, a Test batsman should average above 50. I don’t consider them ”great“

Said absolutely noone ever lmao..

So a batsman averaging 49.99 is not great but the moment he scores 70 not out on a Harare dead wicket against mighty Zimbabwe and pushed that to 50 suddenly becomes a great. A true of gem of a logic..

 

[FearlessRoar]

The reason he was dubbed as "Asian Bradman" wasn't due to his outstanding odi records, it was due to his seemingly effortless ability to post massive test hundreds with ease. Particularly against India he used to smack daddy hundreds for fun. At least that's what I have always heard. So feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I think one of the main reasons why he doesn't get enough credits as a great odi batsman despite having those outstanding numbers are due to his perceived weakness against fast bowling. He used to absolutely bully spinners & trundlers, but against legitimate fast bowlers such as Aus & WI he wasn't that impressive. Viv & Greg were simply superlative players of fast bowling. Even his own teammates like Majid & Miandad were considered better against fast bowlers. So any comparison with Sachin or kohli also goes pale due to this reason.

You need to watch highlights of Pak vs Aus Test series 2014. You will see how Younis Khan smashed Michelle Johnson

 

[kron]

Test batsmen who average between 40 and 50 are good, but I wouldn't call them great. To be considered great, a Test batsman should average above 50. I don’t consider them ”great“

Pieterson aside yes. Kohli is not a true great.

 

[VForVendetta]

Test batsmen who average between 40 and 50 are good, but I wouldn't call them great. To be considered great, a Test batsman should average above 50. I don’t consider them ”great“

It's a very unique yet simpleton one track way to assess a player's greatness. Around 80% batsmen in the entire history who have maintained the elusive 50+ average have batted only at two positions, no 3 & 4. With the exception of Gavaskar & Hayden no other opener with substantial amount of matches have been able to finish their career with 50+ average. That includes goat/atg like Boycott, Sehwag, Greenidge, Haynes,Langer, Smith, Cook,Warner,Anwar etc. Because it's extremely rare & almost impossible for a test opener to maintain that after playing a certain amount of matches. Similarly the deeper /lower you bat the lesser it becomes a possibility for you to continue that average. By your logic almost all the great test batsmen are the ones who have occupied 3/4, because those are the ones with highest averages. Almost all the openers & middle order batsmen will be discarded from greatness.
Amongst the original four names I mentioned one(Sehwag) is considered as the goat opener of the history almost universally. Other one(Greenidge) would have been the best of his era if not for Gavaskar, similarly if not for Viv he would have been dubbed as the premier batsman of his team. The other two(Inzy & VVS) are widely regarded as two of the best match winners of all time due to their immense ability to take games away from opposition in the most hopeless situations. No one could bat with as mush assurance with lower orders as these two could. I should have added Smith also in my original post. People rarely talk about him due to over admiration for Kallis, AB, Amla etc. But he was as clutch as it gets. His team never lost a test match whenever he scored a hundred! That's some batshit crazy level impact.
I can't & don't want to change your thoughts but must say was a bit baffled on your criteria of a certain average to measure a batsman's greatness. Going by your logic many many greats will be excluded.

 

[VForVendetta]

You need to watch highlights of Pak vs Aus Test series 2014. You will see how Younis Khan smashed Michelle Johnson

I wasn't talking about Younus, it was about Zaheer Abbas. You should have read the prior posts before hurriedly replying.

 

[kron]

It's a very unique yet simpleton one track way to assess a player's greatness. Around 80% batsmen in the entire history who have maintained the elusive 50+ average have batted only at two positions, no 3 & 4. With the exception of Gavaskar & Hayden no other opener with substantial amount of matches have been able to finish their career with 50+ average. That includes goat/atg like Boycott, Sehwag, Greenidge, Haynes,Langer, Smith, Cook,Warner,Anwar etc. Because it's extremely rare & almost impossible for a test opener to maintain that after playing a certain amount of matches. Similarly the deeper /lower you bat the lesser it becomes a possibility for you to continue that average. By your logic almost all the great test batsmen are the ones who have occupied 3/4, because those are the ones with highest averages. Almost all the openers & middle order batsmen will be discarded from greatness.
Amongst the original four names I mentioned one(Sehwag) is considered as the goat opener of the history almost universally. Other one(Greenidge) would have been the best of his era if not for Gavaskar, similarly if not for Viv he would have been dubbed as the premier batsman of his team. The other two(Inzy & VVS) are widely regarded as two of the best match winners of all time due to their immense ability to take games away from opposition in the most hopeless situations. No one could bat with as mush assurance with lower orders as these two could. I should have added Smith also in my original post. People rarely talk about him due to over admiration for Kallis, AB, Amla etc. But he was as clutch as it gets. His team never lost a test match whenever he scored a hundred! That's some batshit crazy level impact.
I can't & don't want to change your thoughts but must say was a bit baffled on your criteria of a certain average to measure a batsman's greatness. Going by your logic many many greats will be excluded.

Shewag was a brutal terrifying opener without question.

Having a closer look at his averages in SENA makes me question his position as a true goat opener. He is a great opener but I am not sure I can say he is definitely right at the very top.

He was always poor vs swing. He has a good average in Australia, however, his exploits in England, south africa and new Zealand have been rather subpar.

 

[Mamoon]

I continue to think that Zaheer Abbas was a top class batter in his own right. He averaged 47 in ODIs with a SR of 85 in the 70s/80s. No Indian batter came close to the kind of impact in ODIS before Sachin landed on the scene.

As for Kohli, he averages 33 in Englang as well. You likely haven’t seen Miandad and his impact in test cricket to even compare him to home bully Kohli. Kohli is a GOAT ODI batter but even Indians rate him behind guys like Dravid and Sachin. He simply hasn’t had much of an impact outside India and Australia in test cricket.

I also do not agree that Pak can NEVER produce a batter that is comparable to or better than Kohli.

It’s true that India does produce quality batters every year or 2, whereas Pakistan will produce one every generation or so. And general quality is higher. It’s ludicrous to say that no Pakistani batter can compare or surpass in future. No one has a crystal ball.

 

[Mamoon]

@Farabi

I didn’t say Pakistan will never produce a better batsman than Kohli. The chances are slim because Pakistan’s batting culture and legacy are a bit of a joke, but you never know what happens in the future.

You can’t say that about any team. Who knows. Maybe in 2050, the greatest Asian batsman of all time is a Bangladeshi.

Then people will living in the past will say that batting in 2023 was much harder because of XYZ reasons.

Jokes apart, as of 2023, Kohli is clear of all Pakistani batsmen. Past and present.