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‘PM Modi hid facts about Pulwama attack for political benefit’: IOK’s ex-governor Satya Pal

So what was the outcome of this proof provided of Pakistan terror attack? Surely if there was proof, then some sort of sanction must have been imposed although a terror attack would require a world military response if they believe it to be true.

The UN sanctioned the pakistani organisation. Pakistan was put on FATF list for terror financing.

World military response? Its not NATO that carried out this terror attack that a worldwide response would be needed to tackle the ones involved.
 
You can post what you like as long as it's credible. Naming a Pakistani organization does not mean Pakistan is funding terrorists or that Pakistanis are involved.

So who runs a Pakistani organisation? Martians?
 
The UN sanctioned the pakistani organisation. Pakistan was put on FATF list for terror financing.

World military response? Its not NATO that carried out this terror attack that a worldwide response would be needed to tackle the ones involved.

UN also says India is occupying Kashmir. But as usual you pick and choose to further RSS propaganda.
 
So who runs a Pakistani organisation? Martians?

Oh please bud, don't plead ignorance now. You know very well your stance is that the Pakistan state is sponsoring terrorism. That means at government level with our armed forces being involved. Some random group is not Pakistan
 
The UN sanctioned the pakistani organisation. Pakistan was put on FATF list for terror financing.

World military response? Its not NATO that carried out this terror attack that a worldwide response would be needed to tackle the ones involved.

So who runs a Pakistani organisation? Martians?

Joshila Bhai, we have gone through this argument several dozen times. Repeat after me.

1. UN did not sanction the Pakistani state.
2. The Pakistani state did not get on the FATF list because it was financing terrorism itself.

Please, for the love of god, let that sink in and not continue repeating broken and debunked arguments for the umpteenth time.
 
So who runs a Pakistani organisation? Martians?

This question is stupid on several levels. Let me reword this question in the context of US.

Who runs Microsoft? Martians?

In the context of Canada.

Who runs Shopify? Martians?

In the context of UK.

Who runs AstraZeneca? Martians?
 
The person was asking if India provided proof. I just told him that UN named a Pakistani organisation as the perpetrators.

Various countries with vast intelligent network also named a Pakistani organisation as the perpetrators.


US UK France moved a resolution in UNSC to ban a Pakistani for the terror attacks.

Proof is provided to UN or important countries. Not on online forums

So you agree india is bad for minorities considering these same countries have criticized indias human right record? UN also says kashmir isnt part of india
 
The UN sanctioned the pakistani organisation. Pakistan was put on FATF list for terror financing.

World military response? Its not NATO that carried out this terror attack that a worldwide response would be needed to tackle the ones involved.

The person was asking if India provided proof. I just told him that UN named a Pakistani organisation as the perpetrators.

Various countries with vast intelligent network also named a Pakistani organisation as the perpetrators.


US UK France moved a resolution in UNSC to ban a Pakistani for the terror attacks.

Proof is provided to UN or important countries. Not on online forums

You guys love to cherry pick what you consider credible from these countries. And it goes like this:

US/UK/France etc criticising India = western propaganda against India and/or Modi. Seen this dozens of times.

US/UK/France etc criticising Pakistan = the criticism against Pakistan is credible because western countries are criticising Pakistan.

Lol.
 
UN also says India is occupying Kashmir. But as usual you pick and choose to further RSS propaganda.

UN asks Pakistan to vacate all armed personnels from Kashmir and allows India to keep certain number of troops to maintain law and order.

When is Pakistan vacating Kashmir?

You don't like RSS. Sadly you can't do anything about it. Except venting your frustration on pp. :)))
 
Oh please bud, don't plead ignorance now. You know very well your stance is that the Pakistan state is sponsoring terrorism. That means at government level with our armed forces being involved. Some random group is not Pakistan

So how are terrorist and terrorist organisations functioning openly in Pakistan? No state help?

Jaish e Mohammad was founded by Masood Azhar. Both on UN list of terrorists.

In an interview in 2010 Pervez Musharraf accepted that Pakistan trains terrorists in Kashmir to force India to negotiate and its pakistan's right to do so.


SPIEGEL: Why did you form militant underground groups to fight India in Kashmir?

Musharraf: They were indeed formed. The government turned a blind eye because they wanted India to discuss Kashmir.

SPIEGEL: It was the Pakistani security forces that trained them.

Musharraf: The West was ignoring the resolution of the Kashmir issue, which is the core issue of Pakistan. We expected the West -- especially the United States and important countries like Germany -- to resolve the Kashmir issue. Has Germany done that?

'

SPIEGEL: Does that give Pakistan the right to train underground fighters?

Musharraf: Yes, it is the right of any country to promote its own interests when India is not prepared to discuss Kashmir at the United Nations and is not prepared to resolve the dispute in a peaceful manner.

Thats Pakistan's former Army chief and President speaking.
 
You guys love to cherry pick what you consider credible from these countries. And it goes like this:

US/UK/France etc criticising India = western propaganda against India and/or Modi. Seen this dozens of times.

US/UK/France etc criticising Pakistan = the criticism against Pakistan is credible because western countries are criticising Pakistan.

Lol.

Its not criticism of Pakistan. Its straight forward naming pakistani organisation as being responsible for terrorist attacks in India.
 
This question is stupid on several levels. Let me reword this question in the context of US.

Who runs Microsoft? Martians?

In the context of Canada.

Who runs Shopify? Martians?

In the context of UK.

Who runs AstraZeneca? Martians?

All of them are run by humans who live and prosper in those respective countries.

Same with the organisation in Pakistan.
 
Its not criticism of Pakistan. Its straight forward naming pakistani organisation as being responsible for terrorist attacks in India.

You are wasting time in semantics. It doesn't change the core of my argument.
 
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Joshila Bhai, we have gone through this argument several dozen times. Repeat after me.

1. UN did not sanction the Pakistani state.
2. The Pakistani state did not get on the FATF list because it was financing terrorism itself.

Please, for the love of god, let that sink in and not continue repeating broken and debunked arguments for the umpteenth time.

Can you name a few states sanctioned for terrorism? Except may be Taliban run Afghanistan.

2. Yes it did.

Pakistan has been on the “grey list” of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) since 2018 because of “strategic counter-terrorist financing-related deficiencies”.


https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...ourse-pakistan-is-removed-from-fatf-gray-list
 
Can you name a few states sanctioned for terrorism? Except may be Taliban run Afghanistan.

Yes, so you don't have a point. You kept implying state involvement when there was nonem
2. Yes it did.

Pakistan has been on the “grey list” of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) since 2018 because of “strategic counter-terrorist financing-related deficiencies”.


https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...ourse-pakistan-is-removed-from-fatf-gray-list

Joshila Bhai,

Repeat after me. Financing related definiecies = inability of the banking system to fully control private terrorism financing.

Also repeat after me. FATF doesn't deal with state sponsored terrorism issues. But rather ability of private individuals to finance it.

It says nothing about state financing the terrorism, but rather the banking system not able fully reign in private financing of terrorism.

We have discussed this same thing dozens of times now. It seems like you just want to lie at this point.
 
The UN sanctioned the pakistani organisation. Pakistan was put on FATF list for terror financing.

World military response? Its not NATO that carried out this terror attack that a worldwide response would be needed to tackle the ones involved.

They run because the government allows them to run.

Ok, let's try a different way. Does US government allow KKK, proud boys etc to run?
 
Yes, so you don't have a point. You kept implying state involvement when there was nonem


Joshila Bhai,

Repeat after me. Financing related definiecies = inability of the banking system to fully control private terrorism financing.

Also repeat after me. FATF doesn't deal with state sponsored terrorism issues. But rather ability of private individuals to finance it.

It says nothing about state financing the terrorism, but rather the banking system not able fully reign in private financing of terrorism.

We have discussed this same thing dozens of times now. It seems like you just want to lie at this point.

FATF doesn't deal with state sponsors but it puts States on lists and not entities. LoL.

Who controls the banking system of a country?

Who turns a blind eye to raising of funds and financing of terrorists?

Who has allowed internationally sanctioned terrorists to roam around freely?

Who calls members of sanctioned organisations as Freedom Fighters?

Ofcourse the Banks.
 
Stop changing topic. Go back to what you were talking about US/UK/France etc

What about them?

US UN France Russia all named pakistani organisation as being responsible for the attack. They have their own intelligence inputs to verify any claim.
 
Ok, let's try a different way. Does US government allow KKK, proud boys etc to run?

An even better way .... let me know who you consider as a impartial neutral arbiter for International disputes.
 
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What about them?

US UN France Russia all named pakistani organisation as being responsible for the attack. They have their own intelligence inputs to verify any claim.

And that goes back to my point.

US, UK, France pointing out issues with India = western imperialist propaganda against India
US, UK, France pointing out issues with Pakistan = makes the story credible because western states agree with India

LOL
 
I don't know about the American system but are they banned by UN or American government?

Why are you shifting goal posts? You seem to try to change topics as soon as your previous point falls apart. You just said because groups like these have a mere presence in Pakistan, the government must be allowing and supporting them.
 
FATF doesn't deal with state sponsors but it puts States on lists and not entities. LoL.

Who controls the banking system of a country?

Who turns a blind eye to raising of funds and financing of terrorists?

Who has allowed internationally sanctioned terrorists to roam around freely?

Who calls members of sanctioned organisations as Freedom Fighters?

Ofcourse the Banks.

Joshila Bhai,

Thanks for acknowledging in a roundabout way that FATF did not put the Pakistani state on some list for state terrorism financing. Hopefully you don't repeat that lie again, but you probably will.
 
An even better way .... let me know who you consider as a impartial neutral arbiter for International disputes.

I don't think there is one, and that's the entire point. Some Indians like to pretend UN, or Western states, or FATF are when it comes to Pakistan, but they don't like it when those same entities point out issues with India and consider them biased, doing propaganda and whatnot. It's obvious hypocrisy but the point being that at the end of the day there is no impartial neutral arbiter for international disputes.
 
I don't think there is one, and that's the entire point. Some Indians like to pretend UN, or Western states, or FATF are when it comes to Pakistan, but they don't like it when those same entities point out issues with India and consider them biased, doing propaganda and whatnot. It's obvious hypocrisy

When did these same entities last have serious issues with India ? Start with the most serious accusations like listing Indian nationals as terrorists, openly rebuking India, putting India on a FATF watch list etc.

but the point being that at the end of the day there is no impartial neutral arbiter for international disputes.

Well then Pakistan should withdraw from the UN, Geneva convention, stop asking IMF and other western countries for bailouts to begin with. When your country relies on these entities when it suits them but rejects them when it doesn't tells a different story.

Fun fact : India is one of the top 10 contributors to IMF.
 
So how are terrorist and terrorist organisations functioning openly in Pakistan? No state help?

Jaish e Mohammad was founded by Masood Azhar. Both on UN list of terrorists.

In an interview in 2010 Pervez Musharraf accepted that Pakistan trains terrorists in Kashmir to force India to negotiate and its pakistan's right to do so.


SPIEGEL: Why did you form militant underground groups to fight India in Kashmir?

Musharraf: They were indeed formed. The government turned a blind eye because they wanted India to discuss Kashmir.

SPIEGEL: It was the Pakistani security forces that trained them.

Musharraf: The West was ignoring the resolution of the Kashmir issue, which is the core issue of Pakistan. We expected the West -- especially the United States and important countries like Germany -- to resolve the Kashmir issue. Has Germany done that?

'

SPIEGEL: Does that give Pakistan the right to train underground fighters?

Musharraf: Yes, it is the right of any country to promote its own interests when India is not prepared to discuss Kashmir at the United Nations and is not prepared to resolve the dispute in a peaceful manner.

Thats Pakistan's former Army chief and President speaking.

Jaish e Mohammad was banned by Pakistan in 2003, it is not a state element. It was founded after India freed Masood Azhar.

Also this same group has made multiple assassination attempts on General Musharaf the same person you're quoting to add credibility to your posts.

You're picking and choosing interviews and questions based on answers that validate your claim. At the same time you're ignoring the context and time. That Musharaf interview was in 2010, Pulwama happened in 2019. Again JEM was banned in 2003 and was in a state of war against the Pakistani armed forces.

As for Musharaf's stance, I know he's given India many nightmares. Here's his actual stance on how terrorists were being bred:

SPIEGEL: Why is it so hard for Pakistan to recognize the war against terror as its own war?

Musharraf: I do agree, they do not accept this war as their war. This has something to do with history. Please understand the reason, and you should blame the US for it. From 1979 to 1989, we fought a war with the US in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union. And we won mainly because of ISI. Otherwise, the Soviet Union could not have been defeated in Afghanistan. But then the US left us all alone with 30,000 mujahedeen brought by them. Even Osama bin Laden was brought by the US, who else? They all came to fight the Soviet Union. So, did anybody in Washington develop a strategy for what to do with these people after 1989? No, nobody helped Pakistan for the next 12 years until 2001. We were left high and dry, with 30,000 mujahedeen holed up, no rehabilitation, no resettlement for them. No assistance was given to Pakistan -- instead sanctions were imposed against us. Fourty F-16s, for which we had paid money, were denied to us. Four million Afghan refugees had also come to Pakistan. The mujahedeed coalesced into al-Qaida and our social fabric was being completely destroyed. This is why the people of Pakistan felt used by the Americans, and this is why Pakistanis dislike the US and this war.


Where do you think these terrorists (then mujahedeens) were going to go? They looked for a new enemy and the closest conflict in Kashmir.


SPIEGEL: Terrorism, military coups, territoral conflicts -- since its independence 62 years ago, Pakistan has been in a state of perpetual crisis. But you did come close to solving at least one problem in secret negotiations with India: the conflict in Kashmir. What went wrong in the end?

Musharraf: We were close to an agreement with India. My proposal was the demilitarization of the disputed area, self-governance and a mutual overwatch. The key irritant was the line of control which the Indians wanted to make permanent. I said we should make it irrelevant by opening transit routes. And that is where the situation stands.

On the Kashmir conflict, he was working towards a solution for peace. Sadly, India as always has ignored any attempts made by Pakistan for better relations. Simply, you guys want to corner us and leave us no choice but to fight for survival.
 
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On the Kashmir conflict, he was working towards a solution for peace. Sadly, India as always has ignored any attempts made by Pakistan for better relations. Simply, you guys want to corner us and leave us no choice but to fight for survival.

So you're blaming India for the Kargil War? :)))
 
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] - another example of how India has failed to fight terrorism at home. When the US and Pakistan were waging the war on terror, India did not want to fight its internal extremists.

SPIEGEL: This group is believed to have been responsible for the terrorist attacks in Mumbai . Why should the US strategy also include India?

Musharraf: There are many Indian extremists who have links with extremists in Pakistan. So if the world is serious about combating terrorism, then don't leave India out. Originally, Richard Holbrooke was supposed to be the US special representative for all three countries, but the strong Indian lobby in America prevented that.
 
When did these same entities last have serious issues with India ? Start with the most serious accusations like listing Indian nationals as terrorists, openly rebuking India, putting India on a FATF watch list etc.



Well then Pakistan should withdraw from the UN, Geneva convention, stop asking IMF and other western countries for bailouts to begin with. When your country relies on these entities when it suits them but rejects them when it doesn't tells a different story.

Fun fact : India is one of the top 10 contributors to IMF.
We have a few recent examples. US government report talking about minority rights/issues in India, and then BBC documentary on Modi. These entities talk negatively about Pakistan, the same people would pretend that strengthens their arguments against Pakistan. When they talk against India, it's western imperialist propaganda and whatnot.
 
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government has nothing to hide concerning the Pulwama terror attack that killed dozens of paramilitary troops in India-held Jammu and Kashmir in 2019, India’s home minister Amir Shah has said.

His comments come days after former Indian-held Kashmir governor Satya Pal Malik said that Modi hid key facts from the public about the incident.

In a wide-ranging interview with The Wire earlier this month, Malik — who was governor during the Pulwama attack — said that he immediately realised that Modi wanted to use the attack to blame ******tan for the benefit of his government and the BJP.

Malik said the Indian prime minister was “ill-informed” and “ignorant” about IIOJK, and that he had told Malik not to speak about the home ministry’s lapses, which led to the devastating incident.

He revealed that the attack on the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) convoy in Pulwama was a result of “incompetence” and “carelessness” by the Indian system, specifically the CRPF and the home min*i**stry.

Malik also gave details of how the CRPF had asked for aircraft to transport its personnel but was refused by the home ministry.

More importantly, he said all of these lapses were raised by him directly when Modi called him from outside Corbett Park, shortly after the Pulwama attack. He said the prime minister told him to keep quiet about this and not tell anyone.

Malik also said that National Security Adviser Ajit Doval also told him to keep quiet and not talk about it. Malik said he immediately realised that the intention was to put the blame on Pakistan and derive electoral benefit for the government and BJP.

Earlier this week, The Wire reported that Malik had been called in by India’s apex investigating agency, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), “for questioning” on April 28.

Commenting on the claims, Indian Home Minister Amit Shah, speaking in a roundtable discussion on an India Today TV programme a day earlier, said the credibility of Malik’s comments needed to be questioned.

DAWN
 
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