"Macaulay imposed slave mindset on India": PM Modi

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Tuesday called for a national resolve to “free ourselves from the mindset of slavery that Macaulay imposed on India,” setting a 10-year timeframe leading up to the 200th year of Macaulay’s campaign to reverse its legacy. The PM was referring to the 1835 introduction of the Macaulay education system, which established English as the medium of instruction and prioritised Western literature and science over traditional Indian learning.

'Macaulay Imposed Slave Mindset On India’: PM Modi Lays Out 10-Year Roadmap

PM said,

news.abplive.com

Why is Modi complaining about Macaulay recommending the teaching of English language during the time of Empire? If he hadn't done this, would Indians even be in a position of growth in the last half century or so?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It shows that I have been spending too much time on PP, I saw this article In the Times and thought of you Cpt.

India seems to have reached the stage where they will start to push the country backwards. Much of their success has been built on being a cheap english speaking nation. If I was them I would be looking to double down on it, instead they want to roll it back.

A hindi or othe regional language speaking nation that is masters of Vedic sciences will perhaps make some Yogi types happy, but is it really helpful for the country?

 

[sweep_shot]

It shows that I have been spending too much time on PP, I saw this article In the Times and thought of you Cpt.

India seems to have reached the stage where they will start to push the country backwards. Much of their success has been built on being a cheap english speaking nation. If I was them I would be looking to double down on it, instead they want to roll it back.

A hindi or othe regional language speaking nation that is masters of Vedic sciences will perhaps make some Yogi types happy, but is it really helpful for the country?

They have already started to go backwards thanks to BJP/RSS/chaiwala Modi.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It shows that I have been spending too much time on PP, I saw this article In the Times and thought of you Cpt.

India seems to have reached the stage where they will start to push the country backwards. Much of their success has been built on being a cheap english speaking nation. If I was them I would be looking to double down on it, instead they want to roll it back.

A hindi or othe regional language speaking nation that is masters of Vedic sciences will perhaps make some Yogi types happy, but is it really helpful for the country?

I saw it in The Times as well as I have a subscription but it's behind a paywall so I posted from a different source. The Times article actually has a more juicy headline.

Modi wages war against ghost of British Empire

India’s schools have paid a heavy price for following the colonial mindset of a British baron, the PM says. Now, after 200 years, the nation must finally free itself

www.thetimes.com

 

[JaDed]

About time, Education and Police reforms were long needed.
The education is driven toward theoretical to an extent that it becomes irrelevant by the time they graduate.

Issues would remain though on how to go about it while also enhancing the society socially.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No, it is not. Certainly, it would be a step backwards. Instead, they can urge students to enrich their stock of knowledge with additional subjects in curriculum.

Or else they would also have Inzimam like captain giving interview in Modi accent..."Mitro, match kahtin tha....

It shows that I have been spending too much time on PP, I saw this article In the Times and thought of you Cpt.

India seems to have reached the stage where they will start to push the country backwards. Much of their success has been built on being a cheap english speaking nation. If I was them I would be looking to double down on it, instead they want to roll it back.

A hindi or othe regional language speaking nation that is masters of Vedic sciences will perhaps make some Yogi types happy, but is it really helpful for the country?

 

[JaDed]

No, it is not. Certainly, it would be a step backwards. Instead, they can urge students to enrich their stock of knowledge with additional subjects in curriculum.

Or else they would also have Inzimam like captain giving interview in Modi accent..."Mitro, match kahtin tha....

Not really .. rote learning and serving the empire or in this case ruling governments is what that system achieved, an education system could include English but not the worship of West.. and that is alright

 

[LordJames]

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Tuesday called for a national resolve to “free ourselves from the mindset of slavery that Macaulay imposed on India,” setting a 10-year timeframe leading up to the 200th year of Macaulay’s campaign to reverse its legacy. The PM was referring to the 1835 introduction of the Macaulay education system, which established English as the medium of instruction and prioritised Western literature and science over traditional Indian learning.

'Macaulay Imposed Slave Mindset On India’: PM Modi Lays Out 10-Year Roadmap

PM said,

news.abplive.com

Why is Modi complaining about Macaulay recommending the teaching of English language during the time of Empire? If he hadn't done this, would Indians even be in a position of growth in the last half century or so?

I don't know whether it is impose Hindi or educate in regional languages with high proficiency in English which will charge India's education system and make students excel.

Imposing Hindi will be death rattle for India.

Pakistan should also teach in Urdu with high proficiency in English to lift its massive population in sciences.​

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't know whether it is impose Hindi or educate in regional languages with high proficiency in English which will charge India's education system and make students excel.

Imposing Hindi will be death rattle for India.

Pakistan should also teach in Urdu with high proficiency in English to lift its massive population in sciences.​

I recommended that teaching English in Pakistani schools as a secondary language should have been a priority years ago in threads on here. This is the sole reason why India got to benefit from the era of globalisation. But of course don't expect Indian posters to admit it, because that policy was probably a result of Congress leadership and forward thinking.

That is why hindutva posters are hiding from this thread because their leader is still lamenting Macaulay's legacy instead of appreciating how his country benefited - no thanks to RSS mentality.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

None of his haters have actually read his "Minutes on Education in India".

 

[Bhaijaan]

It’s a delusion that Indians achieved success worldwide simply because a few million people could speak English. Indians have historically been successful administrators, intellectuals, poets, mathematicians, merchants, bankers etc all before English arrive don Indian shores.

Its the hard work and will power of Indian people to succeed anywhere they are. Language has never been a barrier to Indians historically, we learn new languages at phenomenal speed better than most communities out there. In my travels around the world, i have seen Indians speaking flawless Mandarin, Korean, Japanese, Russian, Arabic, Spanish, German etc. and a lot of them were brown collar workers. You've have to be clinically ignorant to make an absurd claim that ending over reliance on English could hinder India's progress. You don't know our country and its true potential.

India's full intellectual strength has never been fully unlocked primarily because the old education system created a huge wall for majority of the countrymen in the form of English being the dominant language. English's dominance has crippled India's growth potential. Growing up i saw first hand and realized how so many talented and hard working students were made to look unworthy because they came from schools and communities where English wasn't very strong in front of ordinary yet English speaking students from other renowned so called high society schools. To this day i know how so many people land jobs in various companies simply on the basis of their fluency in English whereas more capable and brilliant minds struggle to land similar high paying jobs because English wasn't their strong point. Its a travesty and doesn't happen in many other proud ancient nations.

The era of AI finally gives India a chance to break that barrier. With real-time translation capabilities of the AI, language should no longer be a barrier for any kid from any background.

The India of the 21st century cannot be content imitating Western ideals. It must build confident, original thinkers in every language, from every region, with technology amplifying and not restricting their abilities.

 

[RexRex]

None of his haters have actually read his "Minutes on Education in India".

What does it say about education in India ? Summarise.

 

[Technics 1210]

India doesn't have an identity other than one through retro attrition.

 

[Champ_Pal]

They have already started to go backwards thanks to BJP/RSS/chaiwala Modi.

I will take Modi over your Budda Yunus and the nation he is ruling.

 

[Hitman]

I will take Modi over your Budda Yunus and the nation he is ruling.

Nation? He is building another Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Nation? He is building another Pakistan.

So is Modi.

 

[JaDed]

I recommended that teaching English in Pakistani schools as a secondary language should have been a priority years ago in threads on here. This is the sole reason why India got to benefit from the era of globalisation. But of course don't expect Indian posters to admit it, because that policy was probably a result of Congress leadership and forward thinking.

That is why hindutva posters are hiding from this thread because their leader is still lamenting Macaulay's legacy instead of appreciating how his country benefited - no thanks to RSS mentality.

It’s not secondary language in schools of India , English is the first language.
Very few schools survive in their language mediums because English is unfortunately part of India’s life lingua franca as they say.

Problem with that education system is how it conveniently serves whoever is ruling, and a massive bias.. we can still have the education system in English but have the ability to learn , write and read Indian languages in scientific papers.

The entire system doesn’t introduce reasoning skills required to be a ln innovator or original thinker.

 

[LordJames]

It’s a delusion that Indians achieved success worldwide simply because a few million people could speak English. Indians have historically been successful administrators, intellectuals, poets, mathematicians, merchants, bankers etc all before English arrive don Indian shores.

Its the hard work and will power of Indian people to succeed anywhere they are. Language has never been a barrier to Indians historically, we learn new languages at phenomenal speed better than most communities out there. In my travels around the world, i have seen Indians speaking flawless Mandarin, Korean, Japanese, Russian, Arabic, Spanish, German etc. and a lot of them were brown collar workers. You've have to be clinically ignorant to make an absurd claim that ending over reliance on English could hinder India's progress. You don't know our country and its true potential.

India's full intellectual strength has never been fully unlocked primarily because the old education system created a huge wall for majority of the countrymen in the form of English being the dominant language. English's dominance has crippled India's growth potential. Growing up i saw first hand and realized how so many talented and hard working students were made to look unworthy because they came from schools and communities where English wasn't very strong in front of ordinary yet English speaking students from other renowned so called high society schools. To this day i know how so many people land jobs in various companies simply on the basis of their fluency in English whereas more capable and brilliant minds struggle to land similar high paying jobs because English wasn't their strong point. Its a travesty and doesn't happen in many other proud ancient nations.

The era of AI finally gives India a chance to break that barrier. With real-time translation capabilities of the AI, language should no longer be a barrier for any kid from any background.

The India of the 21st century cannot be content imitating Western ideals. It must build confident, original thinkers in every language, from every region, with technology amplifying and not restricting their abilities.

Agreed.

People in this region are intellectually sharp, dedicated and committed and they would excel no matter the medium of education.

 

[Champ_Pal]

India should stop blaming British or Mughals for their problems. They have not been in power for 80 yrs now.

India's main issue is over population and corruption.

 

[Rajdeep]

So is Modi.

Nah.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Nah.

Yah.

 

[pillionrider]

Says the man who stands like a waiter in front of the Chinese or US presidents.

English is the only reason the entire country hasn't become unemployed under him. We're on our way though.

 

[LordJames]

India should stop blaming British or Mughals for their problems. They have not been in power for 80 yrs now.

India's main issue is over population and corruption.

Both India and Pakistan suffer from the same problem and every Government deflects responsibility and blames it on someone while Politicians keep getting rich.

I sincerely believe that if India/Pakistan relations get better it be mutually beneficial for both countries. The unnecessary hate is pointless and counterproductive, look at the vile comments from Pakistani people towards the Indian Pilot who died in Dubai this morning, he wasn't at war with Pakistan, he was participating in an Airshow for his country.

Similarly, look at the vile Indians who celebrate deaths on the Pakistani side in floods, earthquakes, acts of Terrorism etc.

Both sides have poison filled people who are fueled by Politicians for their own gain.

Says the man who stands like a waiter in front of the Chinese or US presidents.

English is the only reason the entire country hasn't become unemployed under him. We're on our way though.

Studies have shown that students learn best in their native language so equally true for both India and Pakistan.

The "English Medium" produces nothing but Brown Sahebs on both side who lord over their populations...

 

[pillionrider]

Both India and Pakistan suffer from the same problem and every Government deflects responsibility and blames it on someone while Politicians keep getting rich.

I sincerely believe that if India/Pakistan relations get better it be mutually beneficial for both countries. The unnecessary hate is pointless and counterproductive, look at the vile comments from Pakistani people towards the Indian Pilot who died in Dubai this morning, he wasn't at war with Pakistan, he was participating in an Airshow for his country.

Similarly, look at the vile Indians who celebrate deaths on the Pakistani side in floods, earthquakes, acts of Terrorism etc.

Both sides have poison filled people who are fueled by Politicians for their own gain.




Studies have shown that students learn best in their native language so equally true for both India and Pakistan.

The "English Medium" produces nothing but Brown Sahebs on both side who lord over their populations...

So a lot of the world are Brown Sahebs according to you. Not just India and Pakistan. What kind of nonsense is this, spouted in English lol

 

[KB]

The persistence of colonial afterlives was profoundly shaped by the manner in which empires ended. A clear illustration is provided by comparing the experience of India and Indonesia.

In the case of India, there was a negotiated handover of power rather than a revolutionary rupture. Tellingly, freedom was described in understated terms as a mere “transfer of power.” And so when India won its freedom, it was Britain’s Government of India Act of 1935 that became the structural backbone of the Indian constitution - adopted in 1949. The Civil Service - long criticised by nationalists, Nehru prominent amongst them, as the “steel frame” of British rule - had been designed to uphold order and stability rather than drive radical change. Yet, under Nehru, it was not seriously reformed and remained conservative and ill-equipped to achieve the ambitious developmental agenda of the new republic. Nevertheless, the continuity provided administrative stability. The adoption of a parliamentary system was also a nod in the direction of colonial influence.

Culturally, continuity was evident in the retention of English as the langue of higher administration, elite education and general prestige. Cricket, too, endured as a powerful source of cultural continuity and an area where a colonial inheritance was reworked into a symbol of nationalism.

In the case of Indonesia, the nationalists were faced with the unbending determination of the Dutch to retain their colonial possession in south-east Asia. Independence had to be achieved violently and through a revolution. And so here, the continuities are fewer. Traditional rulers were killed in large numbers. The roots of the constitution were shallow. The Dutch civil law system as an administrative structure was displaced. Constitutional democracy was far more unstable and indeed broke down in the 1950s. There were fewer Dutch-speaking, Western educated administrators and intellectuals. In contrast to the colossus that was the Congress party in India, in Indonesia there were many aspirants to power.

Culturally, discontinuity was evident in how the Dutch language receded rapidly. Indonesian leaders made the bold choice of adopting Bahasa Indonesia (spoken only by a minority at the time) as the sole national language. While Badminton was introduced by the Dutch and became very popular, it did so because the Dutch never used it as a tool of cultural imposition. The nationalists did not therefore feel the need to reject the sport.

These contrasting experiences demonstrate how imperial endings conditioned the political and cultural landscapes of independent states.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

What does it say about education in India ? Summarise.

It's not a long piece. You can read it pretty quickly.

There a couple of things to be kept in mind. He was a 19th century British Christian man who believed in the superiority of Western civilization .

But he justifies it very rationally imo for someone of his time

The piece is about educational policy in India being determined by the Committee of Public Instruction which was divided on the topic .

Orientalists wanted to spend on Arabic and Sanskrit learning but Macaulay implies they are hypocrites/racists because he found that Orientals believed in the superiority of European knowledge anyway and saw Indians as incapable of learning the sciences and literature in English/western languages.

He takes the example of England itself and how England's progress owed to the learning of Greek and Latin instead of purely Anglo Saxon literature and how Russia progressed when they moved on from the "lies of St. Nicholas" to western European learning


He felt English was the Greek of his time and it behooved Eastern nations to adopt and improve themselves.

He blamed the British promotion of the madrassah and Sanskrit College in Calcutta where the British had to pay students to study there and the volumes printed in Arabic and Sanskrit were unsold and loss making whereas around 8000 English volumes were sold every year and students/families were willing to pay for an English education which would help them access the sciences and literature of Europe

Gives examples of petitions given by products of these colleges who found themselves without the respect of fellow natives as well as being unemployable and blames the educational policy for funding ignorance.

It's sad and funny that he is criticised by Marxist historians for having a colonial agenda alone and by the other side who have not even read about Macaulay apart from a couple of lines in a CBSE textbook often written by Marxists, who they apparently despise.

If not anything else, he argued in very good faith which Orientals, Marxists and nationalists seem to have issues with

 

[RexRex]

Wall Street Journal argues that Macaulayism was a good thing for India. Thoughts ? @Nikhil_cric @KB @Champ_Pal @JaDed @Red-Indian

https://twitter.com/x/status/1996428594680381501

 

[Champ_Pal]

Wall Street Journal argues that Macaulayism was a good thing for India. Thoughts ? @Nikhil_cric @KB @Champ_Pal @JaDed @Red-Indian

https://twitter.com/x/status/1996428594680381501

I am not a fan of blaming the past for the present days miseries.

Sure, India was colonized by Brits, Turkic tribes for over 1000 years. It does create a culture of servitude and lack of self belief. But all of these could be overcome within a generation. No Indian born after 1947 was ever oppressed by foreign invaders. The issue is that India after independence went into the hands of leaders that lacked vision. I can understand the initial leaders like Nehru for lacking vision. But the later ones had no excuse. We leaned towards socialism which put India in dark ages until mid 90's.
Bottomline, blaming Macaulay or Queen or Babur or Aurangzeb is pointless. They were invaders and did exactly what would benefit their people and hold onto the authority over natives. Just look at the politicians in each state. They are a thousand times worse than Macaulay ever was. Blaming others is a sign of cowards. Indians allowed foreign invaders to rule over them. Lack of unity and the greed of the local rulers ensured India could be taken over rather easily.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wall Street Journal argues that Macaulayism was a good thing for India. Thoughts ? @Nikhil_cric @KB @Champ_Pal @JaDed @Red-Indian

https://twitter.com/x/status/1996428594680381501

This is basically the same argument I raised in my OP.

 

[JaDed]

Wall Street Journal argues that Macaulayism was a good thing for India. Thoughts ? @Nikhil_cric @KB @Champ_Pal @JaDed @Red-Indian

https://twitter.com/x/status/1996428594680381501

Feels like a puff piece for Macaulay.. about how brilliant he was etc..

The opinion almost comes across that of a brown noser that believes everything West is amazing.

Here let me put it this way, no issue if English is the medium, but slave mentality has been implemented through his system, which is what my point is on how even corrupt societies like Brazil produce innovation..

 

[KB]

Wall Street Journal argues that Macaulayism was a good thing for India. Thoughts ? @Nikhil_cric @KB @Champ_Pal @JaDed @Red-Indian

https://twitter.com/x/status/1996428594680381501

I think the piece underplays colonial self-interest and colonial arrogance. It could be argued that Macaulay’s intention was cultural colonisation rather than economic development.

There was both an instrumental and ideological component to Macauley’s ‘Minute on Indian Education’.

Instrumentally, there was the need to govern a country made up of millions with limited British resources and manpower. A small, Western educated elite would act as state functionaries and intermediaries, providing a stable and inexpensive foundation for colonial rule. His famous proposal was to create an 'interpreter class,’ that is a group of people, “Indian in blood an colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect.” He wanted to fund education that created useful skills for administration. It was to be a service class that enabled British rule rather than a class of people that acted as force for economic development.

This said, I think Macaulay also genuinely believed he was doing a ‘favour’ for Indians, that he was trying to address what he felt was a moral imperative to lift Indians from a state of ignorance. But it was unmistakably rooted in colonial arrogance. He believed that Indian knowledge was useless: “a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India and Arabia.” It is no surprise that Indian nationalists would eventually bristle at such expressions of Western cultural superiority. For him, Westernisation was the only path to progress, and while he may have imagined a model of ‘downward filtration’ where a Westernised elite would spread Western knowledge to the masses, what in fact developed was rigid class divide based on access to English.

Macaulay’s ‘civilising mission’ combined a sincere belief in civilisational uplift with a paternalistic and self-serving vision of what Indian progress should look like. It was also suffused in colonial arrogance. Yes, it aimed for educational uplift but it was also a project of cultural subordination.